Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Midnight Lullaby]

He reminds me of a stink bug..I miss the old suit..

[tv echo]

Spoilers from SDCC press roundtables (Jul. 23, 2016) - 
RealistikkVideos interview with SA
(video posted by tv echo on page 41 of Spoilers thread)

-- SA: "Ideally, the 100th episode would not be a crossover episode, it'd be a very very Arrow-centric episode. But at the same time, it is, so that's, you know, that's a moot point.  Um, I really hope that we see someone in the 100th episode that we haven't seen in awhile. That would be my hope... Oh yeah, I have people in mind."

-- SA: "Oliver's most important relationship in the entire show is his relationship to Star City and what it means to him, the fact that it's his home. And, you know, his father said something very specific to him before he took his life, so that Oliver could live, and we get back to focusing on that this year."

-- SA: "You know, a show is an evolving thing and the fact that we've had the opportunity to introduce new shows is wonderful and I hope they all succeed, but Arrow is a very specific thing. It's not as big a universe as The Flash or Supergirl or certainly as Legends of Tomorrow. Arrow is at its best and, you know, at its most efficient when it's a story about Star City and street-level crimefighting. So we're back to that this year, which is really exciting." 

-- SA: "I've talked with Greg Berlanti a lot and he said that some of his favorite shows, you know, had a - not a renaissance necessarily, but really hit their stride in season 4, season 5, season 6. And it's typically because someone has breathed new life into the show. And I really believe that that person is James [Bamford]. He's directing our first two episodes and he gets it. He gets the show. The action is mean. We are shooting some awesome sh*t right now - like just some real oners that have to be mean, and they are real mean, like bare knuckle action, and I think that's what we do well. So working with him is wonderful." 

-- SA: "I'm appearing in a Legends episode in the early part of the season for them and my first question was, 'Is the scene with Victor Garber?' And they're like (shakes head). So, 'okay, guys, whatever.' So hopefully, one of these days."

Edited July 25, 2016 by tv echo

[kismet]

A Victor Garber and Stephen Amell scene is high on my wishlist as well. I'll even be so bold to hope for an entire VG/SA story arc.

Edited July 25, 2016 by kismet

[Belinea]

Depending on the season, Oliver's most important relationships seem to differ.

And honestly, I will be seriously offended if the change Oliver's and Diggle's relationship with each other and their significant others because of the Flash. I should stop repeating this but I am still upset that they include it. What do you watch  the show for and get invested in the relationships if they can just erase it. And they don't even erase it on their own show, no, they do that on a show which I rarely watch. Good times.

I wish I were more excited for anything but I am just not that convinced.

[kismet]

Attn - Flashpoint Comic experts on the board....  serious question. Does geography matter when BA causes the FP?

If Diggle was already out of town and on mission with Special Ops in Chechnya - could this be why FP affects him differently or more personally than other Arrow stars? Perhaps where you are geographically sets your timeline trajectory. He can't be involved in SC timeline revision because he was not in SC.

I'm wondering if one of the changes will be that Dig never left the Army. That would explain why there is a significant change to Dig's personal life. No leaving, no Dig that bodyguard. His relationship with Lyla might still happen since they were married, but perhaps there was never a divorce/reconciliation. It might impact how he views his relationship with Andy, if he never left the Army. Also perhaps he is never responsible for Andy's death.

It could explain why Dig is not present in SC. Why OQ is going it alone in his in the field missions. Why he has reverted to more of a kill v. be killed mode. In BA's new world perhaps it was just OQ & FS that were OTA.

[dtissagirl]

6 minutes ago, kismet said:

Attn - Flashpoint Comic experts on the board....  serious question. Does geography matter when BA causes the FP?

No.

But also, it ain't Barry that causes it in the comics, it's Reverse-Flash.

[statsgirl]

I'm still trying to catch up with everything (because wow, that's a lot) but I just want to come on and say Barry is the worst. THE WORST.

22 hours ago, Angel12d said:

I don't really understand how O/F are ambiguous and having a turning point in 505 (even though I did think the turning point was bad) if she already has a boyfriend in 501. Seems pretty damn clear to me. 

Given how things were left (pining for each other but apart) and how busy they both are (Oliver is a crap mayor because he doesn't have time for the job; Felicity is (hopefully) doing double duty in the lair and trying to get PT back, I wonder if the reason she has a boyfriend at the start of the season is because she and Oliver never got together in the first place.

But did Diggle never get together with Lyla and have Sara?  But then why would he shoot Andy because he did it on the show when Andy threatened Lyla and Sara?  And if Oliver and Felicity didn't get together, then how would Curtis know Oliver was the Green Arrow?  And Donna wouldn't have been needed to help Oliver and Felicity in 4x06 and she wouldn't have met Quentin.

The idea that some things change and others don't feels like rubbish writing.

Thanks, Barry. YOU ARE THE WORST!!!

[wonderwall]

Quote

Maybe that chemistry will overtake them again and we'll put them back together.... - Wendy Mericle

I said this on twitter and I'll say it again... All I got from this is they're gonna have lair sex :p

[apinknightmare]

Accidental post!

Edited July 26, 2016 by apinknightmare

[apinknightmare]

1 hour ago, wonderwall said:

I said this on twitter and I'll say it again... All I got from this is they're gonna have lair sex :p

Would Oliver cheat on his one true love Star City, tho?! 

[wonderwall]

Just now, apinknightmare said:

Would Oliver cheat on his one true love Star City, tho?! 

Yes

[kismet]

Well Ollie did excel at cheating, so I think its fully possible that perhaps OQ will cheat on his one true love for his one & always love.

Of course, we have to question if the city really knows OQ in it's bones. That could be an influencing factor.

[bijoux]

8 hours ago, kismet said:

Attn - Flashpoint Comic experts on the board....  serious question. Does geography matter when BA causes the FP?

If Diggle was already out of town and on mission with Special Ops in Chechnya - could this be why FP affects him differently or more personally than other Arrow stars? Perhaps where you are geographically sets your timeline trajectory. He can't be involved in SC timeline revision because he was not in SC.

I'm wondering if one of the changes will be that Dig never left the Army. That would explain why there is a significant change to Dig's personal life. No leaving, no Dig that bodyguard. His relationship with Lyla might still happen since they were married, but perhaps there was never a divorce/reconciliation. It might impact how he views his relationship with Andy, if he never left the Army. Also perhaps he is never responsible for Andy's death.

It could explain why Dig is not present in SC. Why OQ is going it alone in his in the field missions. Why he has reverted to more of a kill v. be killed mode. In BA's new world perhaps it was just OQ & FS that were OTA.

SA has repeated multiple times during SDCC that Oliver wants the old team back, he wants Diggle back, he wants Thea back. So obviously Dig was on the team. DR also said Dig realizes he needs the team. He couldn't come to this realization if he hadn't actually had the team at one point. 

I think we are collectively overthinking this. It's been confirmed that FP will affect this show, but I don't think the effects will be that all-encompassing. Here are the things that track with what has actually happened on the show:

• Oliver is still both GA and mayor
• he and Felicity are still working together
• Dig and Thea used to be on the team, but they left it. Thea even puts on the Speedy suit and reiterates that she can't be in the field in the sizzle reel.
• Thea is working for Oliver at the mayor's office, which tracks with her working on his campaign last season
• Lance is still unemployed
• Curtis is aware of the team. He's the only newbie at the lair in the reel, and he's there with Oliver, Felicity, Thea and Lance. So he knows about all of them being involved with TA activities. He and Oliver also have a conversation which calls back to one they had last season.

I'm not arguing the FP won't have an effect, just that most of the big things will still be present.

Edited July 26, 2016 by bijoux

[Password]

If anything that's what irritates me most. Barry going back to save his mum would ordinarily have enormous consequences to everyone else's lives. But the writers are picking and choosing what it affects and that annoys me. Rather go the full hog than one or 2 permanent changes. 

[bijoux]

What irritates me most is that one show has a huge influence on another. I watch Arrow. I should not be expected to watch The Flash to keep up on what is going on on this show. This is the reason I am so glad that Arrow pushed out The Flash in that EW poll. I don't mind that The Flash has bigger ratings or more promotion. Those things don't affect my watching experience with Arrow. This fucking does. Also, it is the perfect tool for a four show crossover and they wasted it. 

[kismet]

I'm of the mindset that I am trusting nothing of what is being said at SDCC. The Actors are giving a lot of their thoughts blended with some pieces of info passed onto them. The EPs are just selling a show, with most likely lies or embellishment. In other years perhaps, I would be more vested in what was said ~ but they seem to still be working out of the kinks of the crossover. I'm not sure they even have the details of the FP worked out. I'll trust more info when they actually have more scripts done & episodes shot/in production.

As of now, I've become very excited for FP because it means it can erase hopefully big chunks s3 & s4 from the timeline. It sucks that we invested time into them, but I'm willing to let some of that go, if I can throw out the bad. I really hated a lot of those seasons. And if it turns out to be nothing at least I've had these few weeks where I could imagine all the amazing possibilities if only certain parts of the FP stuck.

[bijoux]

51 minutes ago, kismet said:

I'm of the mindset that I am trusting nothing of what is being said at SDCC. 

By applying that reasoning, it could also be argued that FP is not going to affect the show at all. It was also said at SDCC. I understand your hopes about erasing parts of the last two seasons, even if I disagree with that approach to writing. However, you're assuming the writers would erase parts that you didn't like and I think they honestly enjoyed those story beats.

[dtissagirl]

I actually had thought some stuff out, and what's making me confused is not knowing how long will Barry be in alt.reality mode. My initial spec was --

- Since Flash premieres first, we see Barry in the totally different alt.reality he created, but by the end of that episode he "fixes" it and goes back to the seemingly original timeline, but one or two tiny things are different, and the episode ends there.

- Then the next night it's Arrow in the seemingly original timeline as well, since Barry fixed it [so we don't have to see alt.Arrow], and the story sure does follow everything that happened before, but again, some pointed thing seems to be weird, but it's unexplained.

- Then the next Monday, Supergirl premieres and doesn't touch any of this because it's the introduction of the character to the CW. Also, hey, here's Clark!

- The next night, we're back on Flash, and Felicity is there, and because Barry remembers the alt.timeline AND the original timeline, he's the one who knows there's weird shit going on, and makes Felicity aware.

- Next night, it's Arrow again, and the deeply personal thing that affected Dig's family is something like, Superman saved his life once, or Lyla's, I don't know -- just something that makes us realize that the ~change~ Barry made is that the Supergirl reality is now the same as the Arrowverse reality. So there's intent in all this crap.

And then later in the season there's something sci-fy-ish happening like THE MULTIVERSE IS COLLAPSING OMG, which brings Kara and Barry and Oliver and the LOT crew together to fix it or whatnot.


But I'm trying to be super logical, and these folks kinda aren't.

Edited July 26, 2016 by dtissagirl

[kismet]

3 hours ago, bijoux said:

By applying that reasoning, it could also be argued that FP is not going to affect the show at all. It was also said at SDCC. I understand your hopes about erasing parts of the last two seasons, even if I disagree with that approach to writing. However, you're assuming the writers would erase parts that you didn't like and I think they honestly enjoyed those story beats.

I fully concede that FP may have no long term effect on Arrow. Like I said before a few pages ago - Flarrowverse is in a complete state of uncertainty. Spoilers are meaningless as of right now to me - it's all a web of some truths, lies, speculation and conjecture at this point - no one can be trusted. All I know is so long as FP is on the table (which is the only confirmed event I accept since it has already occurred), everything else is on the table from the good to the bad and even the ugly. Nothing is definite, so I prefer to imagine the possibilities that I may get the Arrow I want as opposed to dwelling on the fact that without FP I don't really enjoy anything that has been thrown out for s5 beyond sleeves & Bratva.

I fully agree its a crappy writing technique and choice. But it is what it is, they are going to do it whether we think its a good technique or not. Pretty much the only story beat I would want to keep from s3/4 is O&F as a romantic couple and it seems that's not happening with or without FP. And I want to keep Dig & Lyla together and happy. So yeah, I'm assuming that many of the story beats I want erased will stay, but perhaps some will go. One can only hope.

Edited July 26, 2016 by kismet
forgot about Dyla

[Sakura12]

I'm thinking they will use Flashpoint to bring Supergirl's world into the Flarrowverse. Once Barry corrects the timeline the biggest difference will be Supergirl's world joining his. Like Flashpoint creating New52. 

[quarks]

6 hours ago, bijoux said:

What irritates me most is that one show has a huge influence on another. I watch Arrow. I should not be expected to watch The Flash to keep up on what is going on on this show. This is the reason I am so glad that Arrow pushed out The Flash in that EW poll. I don't mind that The Flash has bigger ratings or more promotion. Those things don't affect my watching experience with Arrow. This fucking does. Also, it is the perfect tool for a four show crossover and they wasted it. 

This is completely understandable, and I think it's possible that they are overestimating the number of fans who do/will watch all for shows, yet, for them, this is a feature, not a bug.

Having said that, if Barry's little time travel jaunt had that many effects on Flash, then really, it should be effecting Arrow more than the spoilers are indicating. I hope we at least get a one line explanation for how/why Team Arrow still seems to be working with Cisco's Star Labs, for instance. Team Flash originally learned about/met Oliver Queen through Barry and Reverse-Flash (when Reverse-Flash was pretending to be Dr. Wells.) Both times Oliver got all grumpy and complained about his secret identity issues. So it seems unlikely that Oliver would have reached out to Star Labs in this continuity. Did Felicity decide to contact them? Or is this continuity's Cisco also fascinated by people wearing masks? It's little things like that that I'm wondering about. 

[tv echo]

I watched the video in the Zap2It article posted by @High Hopes on page 41 of the Spoilers page - a little more was said than what's quoted in the article, so here's my transcription of the full cast quotes from that video...

-- SA: "That [Olicity as friends and teammates] relationship is much more important than the romantic element of it. I mean, obviously, that's an element. And they clearly have feelings for one another, but at the same time, the mission supersedes anything, and the mission has to do with Star City.  Star City is Oliver's most important relationship on the show."

-- EBR: "What's interesting about that is, you're so connected with someone, and then - they're working together, they have a common goal. They both have very strong opinions about how things should progress, and they're not going to, you know, dance around what their opinions are. They're more likely to be a little more cut-throat at that point because you know the person so well. Trying to build that friendship and like hoping - you know, always expecting the best of that person. And like really trying to get there and trying not to let your emotions override the goal at hand, I think, is always difficult for that scenario, but they're doing it."

-- WM: "When we find them at the top of the season, that bond has grown stronger.  And the Olicity of kind of where that relationship goes and whether it goes back to being romantic or not, again, we're going to see where that takes us.  Um, we originally wrote those characters and explored that relationship as much out of a response to, 'we need a romantic storyline on the show,' but really it was the chemistry between Stephen and Emily on camera - you can't deny it. And maybe that chemistry will overtake them again and we'll put them back together. Maybe not."

[bijoux]

27 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I just noticed this poster in the background of the trailer. It's the same logo on the shirts they're wearing here:

 

Excellent catch. AmerTek? Now I'm thinking the newbies go undercover and I want that for the original team members. Even if it's understandable that both Oliver and Felicity are too well known to just blend in. *pout*

[tv echo]

Spoilers from SDCC press roundtables (Jul. 23, 2016) - 
DC Comics News interview with WM
(video posted by tv echo on page 41 of Spoilers thread)

-- WM: "This year will be much more - it'll be much more gritty, much more a return to our roots. I think Stephen has said in the press a lot that this - with the goal - and it's definitely our goal as well - is to come back and make it more of a crime show, the way it was in season 1, [unintelligible words], more close-ended stories. And, yeah, magic will still be there because we've introduced it now - you know, we're going to honor that that's what we did in season 4, but it's not going to drive story [unintelligible word] the way it did last year."

-- WM: "When we come into the season at the top of 501, there'll be a new kind of element of crime in the city, which we [unintelligible words] character.  There will also be a lot of, uh - we really wanted to explore the mafia and have the criminal underworld that we've hinted at various times throughout the years, but this year we really want to get into that... And that will also take us into Bratva and also tie into the flashbacks, and we'll see some more [unintelligible words]."

-- On flashbacks in S5, WM: "We really want to delve into the world of Bratva, really see how he became a captain, and what his experiences were there. And to make it, again, kind of gritty and visually different and dynamic as well... And we're also going to tie them much more with the present day stories thematically, so you'll feel the kind of - there'll be more, I don't know, synergy between the front and back stories than we've had in past years."

-- WM: "I know Olicity is a very sort of lightning rod of controversy on the internet. We left them in a very  ambiguous way at the end of season 4, and I think we'll get some clarity in the first five episodes, particularly in episode 5 of season 5. But, by the same token, we really - one of the reasons that relationship happened is we could really write into those characters and write into Steve and Emily, and we're going to do the same thing in season 5. We're going to kinda let the characters tell us where they want to go, and we'll see where we end up."

-- On how to keep Arrow's character within the now expanded universe, WM: "It's a tricky thing. I think Arrow in particular being the first of four and also, in a way, being the most grounded - I mean, when they - when Marc,  Andrew, Greg first came out with the show, there were no superpowers, it was very grounded, very gritty. And season 5 is an attempt to sort of answer that, and it is about balance.  I mean, we have to deal with Flashpoint. We're going to do it in a way that is very much a part of the Arrow universe. And I think the way we deal with metas is the same. We want to - we always - we have to honor that they're there. We want to because it actually opens up storytelling possibilities for us. But, by the same token, we don't want it to change that much, to change that much of the DNA of the show. So it's a tricky balance, but I think we will - it will be story dependent. If we find a great story, if we want to bring in a meta, if we want to talk about Flashpoint, we will do that."

-- On plans for beyond S5, WM: "We always know where we're going to end up. We usually know, at the end of the season, at least where Oliver and our Big Bad, the villain of the season, will end up. So you're always thinking, well, what is the most dramatic ending for the season. And that does raise questions for season 6 and beyond. So you're sorta thinking about it, but it's very fluid because it changes - every episode sorta changes the shape of the [unintelligible word]."

-- On the definitive theme of S5, WM: "The theme of this year is definitely legacy. And it's really going to revolve around Oliver going back to his roots, as we've talked about, and also answering that question of - he got into this because he wanted to right his father's wrongs. He's going to evaluating, has he done that? And how - what is the best way to do that? Is it as the Mayor? Is it as Green Arrow? And while he's struggling with those questions, everyone else will also be similarly be thinking about their legacies - Felicity, Diggle, everybody, will be having that same head space of - you know, this is a hard life they've chosen, do they want to keep doing this? And when they do, is that - what kind of legacy to leave behind for themselves, their memory and their families?

Edited July 26, 2016 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

So, the posters in the background of the shot I posted in the SPOILERS ONLY thread, which have the AmerTek logo on them (the same logo that's on the shirts the newbies are wearing) are advertising free clinics which might indicate it's some kind of medical company? AmerTek has been mentioned in Arrow before as a weapons manufacturer. Any chance this is an AU Flashpoint PT/new company where Felicity plans to somehow market her chip? Or is AmerTek just a nice war machine that offers its employees free checkups? Because that lady being choked is gonna need it. 

Maybe the newbies are trying to infiltrate to suss out the reasoning for the break in, and that's why they're wearing the shirts?

I'm bored, I need spoilers. 

Edited July 26, 2016 by apinknightmare

[bijoux]

4 minutes ago, tv echo said:

RealistikkVideos interview with EBR (Jul. 23, 2016)...

Can anyone hear what she says she would love to see happen at the beginning? It's apparently related to the crossover.

[tv echo]

Spoilers from SDCC press roundtables (Jul. 23, 2016) - 
RealistikkVideos interview with EBR
(video posted by tv echo on page 41 of Spoilers thread)

-- (No idea what question/comment she's responding to) EBR: "I want to see it happen. I would love to see it happen. It comes up in episode 8. It's the 100th episode of the series. It is going to be a crossover. It is apparently going to be a four-episode crossover. Um, I don't know how we're going to do it, but it's going to be f*ckin -"

-- On Palmer Tech, EBR: "I haven't seen anything to do with Palmer Tech yet. Um, she does own the company. Ray did sign it over to her last - two seasons ago... And as much as she tried to give it back to him, he didn't want it and so it's still hers. She might've been fired as CEO, like voted off the island, but I do believe that it is still her company. I haven't seen anything to do with Palmer Tech. As an audience, if we're willing to forget about it, which I don't think we are, so I do think we do have to dive back into that."

-- On Felicity's father, The Calculator, EBR: "Yeah, he should be back, and hopefully, it'll be a good time." 

-- On where Felicity is emotionally after last season and nuking Havenrock, EBR: "That is her crux this season. That is something, um, that we're definitely going to dive into. I think she's bottled everything - um, first couple episodes, we don't really see her dealing with it, which is super interesting because, you know, it's definitely something she's living with, but I - we don't really get to her any private moments in the first couple episodes, which is why we don't see it. I think she definitely bottles it up and tries to go through her day and tries to work at a very fast pace, which is what she does, um, and gets things done. She's a very task-oriented person. But, you know, when she goes home, she - that's the guilt that she's wearing and she's always thinking about it, those are her demons, and, um, as much as I want to play the comedy in things, I don't think that that's respecting her story this season. So I do think that she has to go through that."

Edited July 26, 2016 by tv echo

[dtissagirl]

16 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Can anyone hear what she says she would love to see happen at the beginning? It's apparently related to the crossover.

Whatever question she was asked was cut from the video, so no idea.

[tv echo]

I found this really funny and kinda snarky - it's Jenny Raftery's way of reporting spoilers from the Arrow highlight reel (you have to go to the link to see the pics that accompany the below text)...

9 Surprises From Arrow’s Comic-Con Trailer
By Jenny Raftery  July 26, 2016
http://www.vulture.com/2016/07/arrow-comic-con-trailer-surprises.html

Quote

1.  Laurel is back.
Wait, what? Our country is divisive enough as it is, Arrow writers.
*  *  *
Good thing she's only seen in flashback form. The trailer reveals the secret words she whispered to Oliver before she died: "You're instinct is to always try and go it alone," she tells him. "But, Ollie, you can't." This sentiment shouldn't be a shock to Oliver, as he's heard it from pretty much every member of his team over the previous four seasons — it's basically the show's unofficial motto — but maybe this time it'll stick.

2.  Flashback Oliver joins the Russian mob …
Hallelujah! Flashback Oliver is off Lian Snooze and headed for Russia, where he gets initiated into Bratva, a massive crime syndicate. Oliver's connection with Bratva was first revealed in season one, and fans have been waiting for this story line for a while. The trailer shows Oliver joining some kind of Russian fight club, to which I say … da, please!

Also, there's a new flashback wig, and it is unequivocally my new favorite cast member.
*  *  *
Just look at that range! It can go straight up:
*  *  *
It can swoop all to one side:
*  *  *
It can even go forward. I mean, I don't know where the wig ends and Stephen Amell's hair begins, which I'm pretty sure is the highest compliment you can give a wig.
*  *  *
Also, this Bratva sequence is the Axe body spray commercial I never knew I needed.
*  *  *
Just look at Anatoly trying to take his eyes off Amell's wig. He can't! It's impossible!

4.  There's a shortage of razors.
Or at least it seems so, unless "beard" is just shorthand for gloomy, lost-their-way men. Quentin is sporting the look:
*  *  *
As is Diggle:
*  *  *
Quick, somebody shave away their sadness!
*  *  *
From the brief glimpse seen in the trailer, this new baddie seems like a cross between Game of Thrones' the Mountain and a Jawa. It's a combination that works better than one would think.
*  *  *
8.  Sleeves are in again.
After much to-do over last season's sleeveless model of the Green Arrow suit, the sleeves have reappeared and, frankly, make the Green Arrow look less turtle-y. I'm not sure if the wardrobe change was made because of the chilly Vancouver weather or because Barry Allen altered the timeline, but it portends good things for season five.
*  *  *
9.  Felicity is still Oliver's voice of reason.

Actually, this isn't a surprise at all.

Edited July 26, 2016 by tv echo

[looptab]

I'm not sure I get what Wendy's been saying about O/F - or rather, why she' saying what she's been saying. I get the reason for Oliver + Star City = <3.  And I think she's being vague with her comments like "we'll see if the characters bring us back there" just because she can't say "of course they'll get back together, duh", but I don't know that I'm right, haha. If anyone has another take, please enlighten me :)

Edited July 26, 2016 by looptab

[way2interested]

Just now, looptab said:

I'm not sure I get what Wendy's been saying about O/F - or rather, why she' saying what she's been saying. I get the reason for Oliver + Star City = <3.  And I think she's being vague with her comments like "we'll see if the characters bring us back there" just because she can't say "of course they'll get back together, duh", but I don't know that I'm right, haha. If anyone has another take, please enlighten me :)

I've been seeing it in that way as well but also as kind of a future excuse for stalling. Like to use it as an excuse for why say the 505 episode doesn't end with Oliver and Felicity getting back together ("they didn't bring us back there just yet" instead of the real "we still have 18 episodes left of the season and this stuff usually happens in the 15-20 range").

[Velocity23]

Quote

I've been seeing it in that way as well but also as kind of a future excuse for stalling. Like to use it as an excuse for why say the 505 episode doesn't end with Oliver and Felicity getting back together ("they didn't bring us back there just yet" instead of the real "we still have 18 episodes left of the season and this stuff usually happens in the 15-20 range").

No EP would ever say that.

[lemotomato]

I've been pretty zen about the Olicity spoilers, but WM's comments about "We're going to kinda let the characters tell us where they want to go, and we'll see where we end up" made me roll my eyes. Oh, now they're going to let the characters tell them where to go? If only they had let them do that in season 4 instead of twisting them into pretzels to meet their plot points.

I know she's just doing the typical showrunner spiel, but I almost prefer MG's comments in the jbuffyangel conversation where he basically admitted that they realized they needed to stall Olicity because the show is going to continue for longer than they planned. At least he's honest.

[tv echo]

WM's comments are disingenuous.  IIRC, she and other EPs have said that they plan the entire season in broad strokes in advance and know where everyone's going to end up at the end of the season.  She even says in that DC Comics News interview above that they already know how the season is going to end with respect to Oliver and the Big Bad at least.  Now they may change and tweak stuff here and there, but I can't believe that they don't already know where the Olicity relationship is going to end up at the end of S5.  So her comments about letting the characters and the actors kinda dictate what happens to that relationship is B.S. - it would only affect what happens in S6, which means they could be apart for all of S5. 

I mean, WM basically confirmed that when they were planning S2 or S3, they were already looking for a substitute for the S1 Lauriver romance, when she said that they "originally wrote those characters [Oliver & Felicity] and explored that relationship as much out of a response to, 'we need a romantic storyline on the show,' but really it was the chemistry between Stephen and Emily on camera - you can't deny it."

Edited July 26, 2016 by tv echo

[Chaser]

In regards to Olicity, they are saying the same thing they have always been saying. Writing to the chemistry. In the same conversation she talks about how SA and EBR have amazing on screen chemistry so I'm assuming we know what direction they are going.

[Velocity23]

Oh they know how that is goinng play out. The problem with them saying anything definite is that they always change things. They might speed things up or delay it. They always talk how they didnt had time for certain things, because other things had priority. Right now they probably writing episode 5-7. I rather they hint at things that are happening then promise something and then it wont happen.

[Guest]

Quote

On where Felicity is emotionally after last season and nuking Havenrock, EBR: "That is her crux this season. That is something, um, that we're definitely going to dive into. I think she's bottled everything - um, first couple episodes, we don't really see her dealing with it, which is super interesting because, you know, it's definitely something she's living with, but I - we don't really get to her any private moments in the first couple episodes, which is why we don't see it. I think she definitely bottles it up and tries to go through her day and tries to work at a very fast pace, which is what she does, um, and gets things done. She's a very task-oriented person. But, you know, when she goes home, she - that's the guilt that she's wearing and she's always thinking about it, those are her demons, and, um, as much as I want to play the comedy in things, I don't think that that's respecting her story this season. So I do think that she has to go through that."

This kinda confuses me. So the first 2 episodes we don't see any fallout to Havenrock. Why? Even if it's just a one minute mention or something, we should see some kind of reaction, even just a flicker in her expression or whatever. At least to build up to whatever fallout will be happening eventually. Unless they're intentionally making it look like she's totally okay when she's really not? IDK. I can't tell if this is because of flashpoint or because they're going to deal with it in a crappy, half-hearted kind of way. I love that EBR has her head canons but that doesn't always come across on screen and I have no trust in the writers to handle this right. 

I guess we'll have to wait and see and hope for the best.

Edited July 26, 2016 by Guest

[looptab]

Good. For some reason reading Wendy's comments about them  got me that "What did I miss?" feeling, haha. Glad that's all there is to it.

Edited July 26, 2016 by looptab

[Velocity23]

EBR and SA probably already read some advance scripts. At least SA commented that he gets the early version of the scripts and he sends his notes to writers.

[tv echo]

SA: "Star City is Oliver's most important relationship on the show." ...

Somewhere William is going, "But what about me?"

[Chaser]

Head canons are interesting to me when trying to interpret what we see on screen, but I find them a little annoying when there is no point of reference on screen.

Like character does this - okay explain your motivation.

Laurel and Felicity are clearly besties - .......what?

[way2interested]

Just now, tv echo said:

SA: "Star City is Oliver's most important relationship on the show." ...

Somewhere William is going, "But what about me?"

Literally all SA had to say was most important relationship on the show this season and I would have been better about it. I still would have been a bit bummed, but at least that answer would have made a bit more sense.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I find it funny that to deflect the questions about Oliver and Felicity they used Oliver's "relationship" with the city instead of selling Felicity's relationship with a real human being. It would have made more sense to answer "we don't know, Felicity might move on..we will see if she can let Oliver go.." to me because two romantic relationships are mutually exclusive, while Oliver can love the city how much he wants, but that's something else. Oliver has always wanted to save the city and he isn't the one who broke up with Felicity.

It really makes me wonder how insignificant (or flashpoint related) this boyfriend might be.

[Chaser]

I'm kind of amused by the boyfriend talk because it occurs to me that no reporter asked about any other love interests coming on to the screen. Olicity are broken up, it wouldn't be an odd question to ask.

TvLine was the only one to talk about the boyfriend and Matt was at HVFF when fans started talking about this. The EPs haven't teased it and no new character had any reference to being a love interest.

IMO, SA probably wasn't supposed to mention it. I'm seeing it as more proof it's Flashpoint related.

Edited July 26, 2016 by Chaser

[dtissagirl]

1 hour ago, Velocity23 said:

EBR and SA probably already read some advance scripts. At least SA commented that he gets the early version of the scripts and he sends his notes to writers.

Question: wasn't there one of the press room videos in that the journo asked EBR about 505 because he had info from Wendy, and EBR said she didn't know because she's not reading ahead?
 

26 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I find it funny that to deflect the questions about Oliver and Felicity they used Oliver's "relationship" with the city instead of selling Felicity's relationship with a real human being. It would have made more sense to answer "we don't know, Felicity might move on..we will see if she can let Oliver go.." to me because two romantic relationships are mutually exclusive, while Oliver can love the city how much he wants, but that's something else. Oliver has always wanted to save the city and he isn't the one who broke up with Felicity.

Oh, me too, I thought it was hilarious that every single time Steve got a romance question he turned it around to Star City. There's no way that's not intentional. I just don't know if it's because of spoilers, or if they finally learned that they *cannot* promote romance for Oliver and/or Felicity with other people, except in passing [see: lowkey mentions of boyfriend], because it has never ever worked well for them ever: it never worked re: audience reception for other LIs, and it never worked in the story either.

Edited July 26, 2016 by dtissagirl

[calliope1975]

1 hour ago, lemotomato said:

I know she's just doing the typical showrunner spiel, but I almost prefer MG's comments in the jbuffyangel conversation where he basically admitted that they realized they needed to stall Olicity because the show is going to continue for longer than they planned. At least he's honest.

Yeah, I know WM is trying to be vague, but I laugh that she's trying to imply that TPTB just don't know if SA/EBR have chemistry anymore. We'll write where they take us. Mmmm hmmm. I know exactly where the chemistry would take these two characters.

[Password]

5 minutes ago, Chaser said:

IMO, SA probably wasn't supposed to mention it. I'm seeing it as more proof it's Flashpoint related.

That would make me very happy :D

[Midnight Lullaby]

2 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

 

Oh, me too, I thought it was hilarious that every single time Steve got a romance question he turned it around to Star City. There's no way that's no intentional. I just don't know if it's because of spoilers, or if they finally learned that they *cannot* promote romance for Oliver and/or Felicity with other people, except in passing [see: lowkey mentions of boyfriend], because it has never ever worked well for them ever.

I hope it's the first option, LOL. If it's flashpoint related there's the potential of something different, interesting..if it's not it's S3 all over again. They never learn so why starting now? Hahahaha

[kismet]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

WM's comments are disingenuous.  IIRC, she and other EPs have said that they plan the entire season in broad strokes in advance and know where everyone's going to end up at the end of the season.  She even says in that DC Comics News interview above that they already know how the season is going to end with respect to Oliver and the Big Bad at least.  Now they may change and tweak stuff here and there, but I can't believe that they don't already know where the Olicity relationship is going to end up at the end of S5.  So her comments about letting the characters and the actors kinda dictate what happens to that relationship is B.S. - it would only affect what happens in S6, which means they could be apart for all of S5. 

Basically this broad strokes tactics is why I think Arrow has an execution problem. They write to get from A to Z, often with no deference or thought process to how to get there. So they need "Z" to definitely happen, inevitably they often write themselves into corners, so then their only option is a for plot moment often composed of character pretzeling or sacrifice. But they achieve their major end goal, so why aren't you happy audience? They don't realize that how they got there made little sense or hurt things along the way. They talk about caring about the journey, but they almost never write to the journey. It's one thing to map out in broad strokes and then meticulously plan the route - that's smart writing. I don't think they do that which is why the last few seasons have had the same commentary. Some great ideas, poor execution and how the characters got there was often not good for the character.

On a personal note, I've never found WM to be a good interviewee. She tries to please everyone, so it always comes off as disingenuous to me. She doesn't have the bravado of MG, where he often just blatantly outright manipulates his words to be quasi-truthful or actively trolls his audience. I know WM is often straight up telling me what she thinks the audience wants to hear. She tries to talk in flowerful spin, but its just poorly done. I know people here like her, but she is more snake-like to me than MG in interviews. I also have found a lot of her writing choices questionable. As a female, I'm glad she got promote to co-showrunner. As a fan of the show, I am not glad because I don't think I like her vision of some of the characters/story arcs as has she written them.

[Chaser]

8 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

Yeah, I know WM is trying to be vague, but I laugh that she's trying to imply that TPTB just don't know if SA/EBR have chemistry anymore. We'll write where they take us. Mmmm hmmm. I know exactly where the chemistry would take these two characters.

On camera. They have great chemistry "on camera."

LOL