Spoiler Discussion Thread

[dtissagirl]

I understand there's feuding going on here re: the people currently making reports from the con. I do not care because I've never interacted with them. I'm comfortable in my neutrality here. But adding up the reports from people who talked to Steve, I'm still getting boyfriend gets dumped in 501.

[Midnight Lullaby]

 

So who are we believing now?

[HighHopes]

Fandom is like high school and apparently there are cliques at the con-- so it's tough to say who to trust. Right now though I am taking everything with a grain of salt. I don't want to say anything negative about anyone, but some of the people posting from the con have a selective view of the truth for some things, and I find it hard to trust them. 

[AyChihuahua]

I so want to say something about the one tweeter, above, without getting into fandom stuff. I guess just that there is reason to take what that person says with a VERY LARGE grain of salt. Like, a boulder of salt.

[Chaser]

10 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I understand there's feuding going on here re: the people currently making reports from the con. I do not care because I've never interacted with them. I'm comfortable in my neutrality here. But adding up the reports from people who talked to Steve, I'm still getting boyfriend gets dumped in 501.

Twenty bucks. He watches from afar as she shares a moment with the BF and he realizes he has to try and move on too. But Wait!!! She is actually dumping her summer flavored distraction because she can't deny the truth. What? Pining! Angst! Lifehouse plays in the background. 

[AyChihuahua]

I will really be [pleasantly] surprised if she dumps him in the premiere.

Oh, I bet they'll have had sex. I don't know why, but that bothers me more than the mere fact of dating.

Edited July 3, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[dtissagirl]

1 minute ago, Chaser said:

Twenty bucks. He watches from afar as she shares a moment with the BF and he realizes he has to try and move on too. But Wait!!! She is actually dumping her summer flavored distraction because she can't deny the truth. What? Pining! Angst! Lifehouse plays in the background. 

Do we hear Oliver's thoughts with that soap-opera voiceover that has echo in it? "I have to try to move on... on... on... on.".

Or a cartoon balloon works too.

[looptab]

2 minutes ago, Chaser said:

What? Pining! Angst! Lifehouse plays in the background. 

I was thinking Damien Rice...LOL

[Chaser]

6 minutes ago, looptab said:

I was thinking Damien Rice...LOL

Lol. Lifehouse is a throwback to my Smallville days.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I'd choose "My Heart Will Go On" LOL

[Soulfire]

I don't want to get into fandom wank either, but I've stood next to the person whose tweets I quoted earlier at another con, and know she reports accurately. Yes, even if she's an Olicity fan.

[lemotomato]

I can't link to tweets from SA's panel right now, but his response to questions about the status of Olicity in season 5 sound like they're going to be broken up and backburned for a while.

So basically, almost exactly the same things he said during season 3 and about 4B. Neither of which I enjoyed at all. 

Edited July 3, 2016 by lemotomato

[HighHopes]

Not sure where to put this so I'm putting it here, but... Amell, dude. Stop with this. 

[AyChihuahua]

3 minutes ago, Soulfire said:

I don't want to get into fandom wank either, but I've stood next to the person whose tweets I quoted earlier at another con, and know she reports accurately. Yes, even if she's an Olicity fan.

I think Mer is reporting accurately, but she's also reading into his facial expressions, etc. One person quoted SA saying Felicity will have a boyfriend. Not hinted, not implied, stated flat out. Then Mer said SA just basically didn't respond, giving her THE IMPRESSION it's either not correct or doesn't last. That isn't actually contradicting the first direct statement.

Also, re SA telling Mer he understands the importance of the Olicity fandom...well, she's a member of the Olicity fandom. Would anyone really expect him to say anything else to her? "Hey, I totally get that you love Olicity, but I think it sucks, and I'm going to push to end it." I mean there's just no way that would happen. Of course he's going to say nice things about that aspect of the show when he knows he's talking to A FAN of that aspect of the show.

Edited July 3, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[AyChihuahua]

4 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I can't link to tweets from SA's panel right now, but his response to questions about the status of Olicity in season 5 sound like they're going to be broken up and backburned for a while.

So basically, almost exactly the same things he said during season 3 and about 4B. Neither of which I enjoyed at all. 

EXACTLY. 

[Soulfire]

7 hours ago, AyChihuahua said:

I think Mer is reporting accurately, but she's also reading into his facial expressions, etc. One person quoted SA saying Felicity will have a boyfriend. Not hinted, not implied, stated flat out. Then Mer said SA just basically didn't respond, giving her THE IMPRESSION it's either not correct or doesn't last. That isn't actually contradicting the first direct statement.

Mods -- please delete this.

Edited July 3, 2016 by Soulfire

[AyChihuahua]

Just now, Soulfire said:

I would definitely doubt the accuracy of the first spoiler considering the source, but there is no way I can respond to this more without it being fandom wank or talking about actual people who aren't even on this board, so I'll decline to say more. My DM's always open.

I know what happened with 4.15. She accurately quoted him but didn't get his meaning. This is a totally different situation. "Felicity has a boyfriend" is not a difficult statement to parse. It's simple and direct. If you don't want to believe it, that's totally your right, but I have watched and been disappointed in this show long enough to have zero problems believing it, in fact I predicted basically this weeks ago. 

[Soulfire]

7 hours ago, AyChihuahua said:

I know what happened with 4.15. She accurately quoted him but didn't get his meaning. This is a totally different situation. "Felicity has a boyfriend" is not a difficult statement to parse. It's simple and direct. If you don't want to believe it, that's totally your right, but I have watched and been disappointed in this show long enough to have zero problems believing it, in fact I predicted basically this weeks ago. 

Mods -- please delete this.

Edited July 3, 2016 by Soulfire

[Guest]

I still have no interest in watching any of this crap. 

And maybe they should learn some new answers to questions because I feel like I've heard this all before. I sure do love going round in circles!

Sigh.

[thegirlsleuth]

Ugh.  I'm so not looking forward to this.  I feel like the spoilers from the con are saying the same things in different ways. I worry that Stephen Amell's definition of "very quickly" is not my definition of very quickly, which admittedly would be the 22 minute mark of the first episode. I also have never found that the dynamic that he describes as mature and adult turns out to be true.  I'm expecting pining looks from Oliver, and Felicity giving speeches about how she's moved on and he should, too, probably in a mean tone of voice.  They won't discuss what went wrong, but hurt each other and not communicate until mid-season, when they blurt out how they can't live without each other. Felicity will be viewed in the wrong for both the breakup and dating other people, further demolishing her character.  

This may sound like fatalism, but I wouldn't rule it out.

[lemotomato]

I'm not interested either. I'm not going to sit through a retread of season 3, this time with Oliver trying to move on instead of pining.

I don't think SA is trolling or being coy-- he's always promoted what we see on screen, nothing more, nothing less. Right now he's saying "relationships don't have to be romantic to be fulfilling" which, while true, is not what I want for Olicity. As far as I'm concerned, it's not realistic or enjoyable to watch them go back to platonic interactions when they had already spent months living together and engaged. 

Edited July 3, 2016 by lemotomato

[looptab]

Given that they planned on breaking them up, they should have never let him propose. Show the ring in the premiere, but no freaking proposal, FFS.

[Midnight Lullaby]

4 minutes ago, looptab said:

Given that they planned on breaking them up, they should have never let him propose. Show the ring in the premiere, but no freaking proposal, FFS.

This!

the idea of two people who were about to get married going back to being friends a few months later is bizarre.

[AyChihuahua]

6 minutes ago, looptab said:

Given that they planned on breaking them up, they should have never let him propose. Show the ring in the premiere, but no freaking proposal, FFS.

That would have helped me deal with BMD. A HUGE part of my rage about that was the fact that they were going to be married, and she'd be a stepmom without knowing it. They were partners, so I'd have been pissed anyway, but not filled with rage.

Edited July 3, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[lemotomato]

Just now, Midnight Lullaby said:

This!

the idea of two people who were about to get married going back to being friends a few months later is bizarre.

These are the same people that thought the main character cheating on his True Love with her sister was a good backstory for the show's OTP.

I swear, everything I love about Arrow happened completely by accident and had nothing to do with the writers.

[Midnight Lullaby]

2 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

These are the same people that thought the main character cheating on his True Love with her sister was a good backstory for the show's OTP.

I swear, everything I love about Arrow happened completely by accident and had nothing to do with the writers.

It is funny (or tragic) because it's true. LOL

[AyChihuahua]

8 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

This!

the idea of two people who were about to get married going back to being friends a few months later is bizarre.

I totally agree. I also don't see that in any way as preventing them from doing it.

I now think they're both going to be dating different people for awhile. They're writing them as Ross/Rachel instead of Monica/Chandler, unfortunately.

[bijoux]

I'm just so very blase and uninterested in these relationship spoilers.

I was thinking back to Oliver's actions in SC resulting in this year's villain. I don't know if this is one quote being repeated, or if it was said multiple times, but could the fact that it's Oliver and not the vigilante mean something? It was Oliver who got on the wrong side of the Bratva in S1, not the Hood. Maybe his involvement set off a chain of events that led to a shake up in the SC chapter's power structure. Maybe things were held in some sort of delicate balance and Oliver's defying the guy in charge caused a butterfly effect, leading to a real psycho getting to be the head of the chapter. I'm really not looking forward to the possibility of a re-play of Ray's beef with the Arrow. This wouldn't be blaming Oliver, just his involvement indirectly leading to some bad shit.

[Chaser]

I feel like I'm the only one not surprised by anything he is saying. Olicity in S5: not together but friends. Relationship on the backburner. 

I didn't expect them to have Felicity possibly dating someone but if it's short lived I'm okay with it. And it sets up Oliver dating someone else. I kind of get it.

[quarks]

59 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

Do we hear Oliver's thoughts with that soap-opera voiceover that has echo in it? "I have to try to move on... on... on... on.".

Or a cartoon balloon works too.

Guys, you know I love this board and all of you - yes, all of you - but mentioning the mere possibility of bringing those voiceovers back? Why would you put that thought out into the universe? WHY? Surely some things must be off limits? Do you really hate my long posts that much?

[Velocity23]

[looptab]

15 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I feel like I'm the only one not surprised by anything he is saying. Olicity in S5: not together but friends. Relationship on the backburner. 

I didn't expect them to have Felicity possibly dating someone but if it's short lived I'm okay with it. And it sets up Oliver dating someone else. I kind of get it.

Personally, It's not that I'm surprised - though I didn't expect Felicity dating either - but I'm still smarting from last night's awful Euro2016 match and I'm emotional and sensitive and did not need to hear this today!!!1!! LOL I think I'll be chill in a few days:)

 

17 minutes ago, bijoux said:

 could the fact that it's Oliver and not the vigilante mean something? It was Oliver who got on the wrong side of the Bratva in S1, not the Hood. Maybe his involvement set off a chain of events that led to a shake up in the SC chapter's power structure. Maybe things were held in some sort of delicate balance and Oliver's defying the guy in charge caused a butterfly effect, leading to a real psycho getting to be the head of the chapter. I'm really not looking forward to the possibility of a re-play of Ray's beef with the Arrow. This wouldn't be blaming Oliver, just his involvement indirectly leading to some bad shit.

Wasn't it that the guy he had asked for information to ended up dead? But I like this train of thought.

Edited July 3, 2016 by looptab

[AyChihuahua]

29 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I feel like I'm the only one not surprised by anything he is saying. Olicity in S5: not together but friends. Relationship on the backburner. 

I didn't expect them to have Felicity possibly dating someone but if it's short lived I'm okay with it. And it sets up Oliver dating someone else. I kind of get it.

A LOT of people, including me, expected them to be back together around 4.20 last season. In fact quite a few people told me if I wasn't okay with them only being apart for a few episodes, I should consider no longer watching the show. So the surprise at them still being apart for some time in s5 seems reasonable to me. 

I actually think they originally did plan to get them back together last season, but something changed their minds. 4.20 was just too setup-y for it not to have been intended to mean something.

Edited July 3, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[lemotomato]

Now I wonder if killing off LL affected the writers/EPs' plans for how/when Olicity would get back together after the requisite breakup. I remember after 418 MG insisted that they did not kill LL because of Olicity, and I commented that it sounded like he left "... and I'm going to prove it by keeping Olicity apart for a good long while." unsaid. 

[tarotx]

Well I think this is the direction season 4 should have gone. I think season 5 is going to be a sort of reboot that was said about season 4...

I think Oliver and Felicity are going to be the non-couple with a history. Oliver will share important heart to heart moments over ice cream with Felicity. I doubt he's sleeping with anyone with any lasting presence on the season. So if it's the reporter, she's probably my a McKenna/Huntress character.

I think it has potential but it's not going to be fun on the forums and groups. 

[way2interested]

Just now, lemotomato said:

Now I wonder if killing off LL affected the writers/EPs' plans for how/when Olicity would get back together after the requisite breakup. I remember after 418 MG insisted that they did not kill LL because of Olicity, and I commented that it sounded like he left "... and I'm going to prove it by keeping Olicity apart for a good long while." unsaid. 

Oh I definitely think that was part of it. I think I even remember MG mentioning that some of the reasons they didn't want them back together by the end was because they thought it would be rushed and take away from the devastation of Laurel's death.

[ComicFan777]

It feels like the writers are trying to mold olicity into something they had planned for lauriver.  Lauriver had their romantic history and then blew it up with the sister swapping boat tour, threw Tommy in for Laurel and lots of women for Oliver, make them friends with a little tension, and then they were supposed to make their way back to each other during the show. 

Now, olicity has replaced that and maybe a similar formula: they gave them the romantic history of being serious and pulling them back by blowing them up with the BMD, throwing other people in the mix, make them friends with a little tension, and then maybe work them back together or let them fade away. 

I think they made it super serious in S4 so that we can see how great they were, so that we can be invested in wanting them back together - but the BMD was so nuclear and then it was as if it never happened - makes me think now what?  I don't think lauriver-type storylines make olicity entertaining at all...I just don't know what to think anymore...right now, I'm just meh...

[AyChihuahua]

6 minutes ago, way2interested said:

the devastation of Laurel's death.

Is it wrong that I LOLd at that?

[dtissagirl]

23 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I was thinking back to Oliver's actions in SC resulting in this year's villain. I don't know if this is one quote being repeated, or if it was said multiple times, but could the fact that it's Oliver and not the vigilante mean something? It was Oliver who got on the wrong side of the Bratva in S1, not the Hood. Maybe his involvement set off a chain of events that led to a shake up in the SC chapter's power structure. Maybe things were held in some sort of delicate balance and Oliver's defying the guy in charge caused a butterfly effect, leading to a real psycho getting to be the head of the chapter.

You might be on to something here. There was a quote from Wendy Mericle on TV line about Bratva --

http://tvline.com/gallery/2016-fall-tv-spoilers-photos-ncis-grimm-jane-the-virgin/

Quote

"It's a very good possibility that we'll finally find out how he got that Bratva tattoo and how he learned to speak Russian," says Mericle. "When Oliver says, 'No one can know my secret' and he kills that guy in the pilot, we're going to get some insight into that."

At first I was just thinking she mentioned him killing that dude in the pilot because Bratva is gonna turn Oliver into that guy, but maybe that particular kill actually means something to the present time storyline this season? Like that guy was in the Bratva chain of command, and/or has something to do with the rise of the crime lord big bad. Or both.

[bijoux]

4 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

It feels like the writers are trying to mold olicity into something they had planned for lauriver.  

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.

[dtissagirl]

Or maybe this is just that Berlanti is really truly re-doing Pacey/Joey again. Everything matches so far. Surprising unexpected chemistry, falling in love despite ~destined forever~ belonging to Joey[Oliver] being with Dawson[Laurel], pre-ship S3 with them leaving happily ever after in the finale. Honeymoon phase in 4A, cracks in the relationship in 4B, broken up by the end of the season.

S5 was when Pacey and Joey pretended they didn't know each other, so it could be worse, fyi.

Edited July 3, 2016 by dtissagirl

[lemotomato]

If a rando homeless guy falls in love with Felicity, I guess we'll know for sure

[calliope1975]

2 hours ago, dtissagirl said:

My advice is: stop caring about that part of the audience. The show clearly doesn't.

This is the hill I'm gonna die in, but: try to avoid looking at spoilers from a fandom pov. We truly really do not matter. Especially this early in the season -- the narrative isn't being written for us. It's being written for the characters. They need to be placed in specific places for the season to start. There needs to be conflict [in the literary sense of the word]. Look at spoilers and figure out how do they fit within the construction of a narrative. It'll be good for your mental health, I promise.

I know, I know, but every year, spoilers start to leak, and I'm like - do they want me to watch? Because most of the time, it feels like they don't. And every year, I fall for it. S3 burned me so badly, but I, for the most part, enjoyed S4.

I am unhealthily invested in this stupid show. Stupid show. Stupid me. 

[DrSpaceman10]

I thought the same re: Pacey/Joey and Oliver/Felicity. GB does tend to borrow from his other shows (see Everwood/BMD). Which means O/F will be friend-zoned in Season 5 (imo sounds like what we're hearing so far) and we can look forward to them getting back together in the last minute of the Season 6 Series Finale. 

[dtissagirl]

8 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

If a rando homeless guy falls in love with Felicity, I guess we'll know for sure

Or Oliver starts dating Chad Michael Murray.

6 minutes ago, DrSpaceman10 said:

I thought the same re: Pacey/Joey and Oliver/Felicity. GB does tend to borrow from his other shows (see Everwood/BMD). Which means O/F will be friend-zoned in Season 5 (imo sounds like what we're hearing so far) and we can look forward to them getting back together in the last minute of the Season 6 Series Finale. 

The ~reunion episode can be called Castaways and they can be literally stranded on Lian Yu.

[AyChihuahua]

16 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

Or maybe this is just that Berlanti is really truly re-doing Pacey/Joey again. Everything matches so far. Surprising unexpected chemistry, falling in love despite ~destined forever~ belonging to Joey[Oliver] being with Dawson[Laurel], pre-ship S3 with them leaving happily ever after in the finale. Honeymoon phase in 4A, cracks in the relationship in 4B, broken up by the end of the season.

S5 was when Pacey and Joey pretended they didn't know each other, so it could be worse, fyi.

But this is supposed to be a hero's journey, in which he's guided by the love of The Woman. How does both of them dating other people while being friends work with that theme at this point?

[kismet]

1 hour ago, HighHopes said:

Not sure where to put this so I'm putting it here, but... Amell, dude. Stop with this. 

This one troll is a line too far... but whatever.

These showrunners suck at writing original shows. They trailblaze a season or 2, get praise and then become like every other run of the mill show. They run the show like the top athletes recruited out of high school, play 1 year in college, draft out to the majors and get a serious injury that sidelines them for a long time, nearly if not ending their career permanently. And even if there is no injury, they float into a see of mediocrity. They are one bad reality show from being Tebow.

[calliope1975]

18 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

Or maybe this is just that Berlanti is really truly re-doing Pacey/Joey again. Everything matches so far. Surprising unexpected chemistry, falling in love despite ~destined forever~ belonging to Joey[Oliver] being with Dawson[Laurel], pre-ship S3 with them leaving happily ever after in the finale. Honeymoon phase in 4A, cracks in the relationship in 4B, broken up by the end of the season.

S5 was when Pacey and Joey pretended they didn't know each other, so it could be worse, fyi.

Yeah, but then P/J didn't get together for real until, like, 10 years later. (I don't actually remember the timeline because I quit watching around S4 or S5 except for that K-Mart episode and the flash forward finale. I cannot deal with that for Olicity. Nope. Not going through that again. I need a Canon Olicity Detox program. 

[lemotomato]

10 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

But this is supposed to be a hero's journey, in which he's guided by the love of The Woman. How does both of them dating other people while being friends work with that theme at this point?

I lost faith in the show being able to stick with a theme after season 4. The hero in their hero's journey backtracked, detoured off the road, and now looks like it's going in a circle, with all the "everything old is new again" talk. 

Edited July 3, 2016 by lemotomato

[bijoux]

29 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

Or maybe this is just that Berlanti is really truly re-doing Pacey/Joey again. Everything matches so far. Surprising unexpected chemistry, falling in love despite ~destined forever~ belonging to Joey[Oliver] being with Dawson[Laurel], pre-ship S3 with them leaving happily ever after in the finale. Honeymoon phase in 4A, cracks in the relationship in 4B, broken up by the end of the season.

S5 was when Pacey and Joey pretended they didn't know each other, so it could be worse, fyi.

Is Oliver then at least going to have something going on with Laurel's ghost? Because Dawson and Joey did give it a semblance of a go at the end of S4/beginning of S5. 

24 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

If a rando homeless guy falls in love with Felicity, I guess we'll know for sure

Wait, which random homeless person fell in love with Pacey? I'm thinking Felicity is Pacey in this situation.