Spoiler Discussion Thread

[apinknightmare]

Oh man, I hadn't thought about mystery Black Canary being part of some Flashpoint scenario. If that's the case, maybe it's Sara, and that's why CL mentioned coming over to Arrow for a few eps next season? 

Although I'm not sure how that'd work...they'd have to Flashpoint us at some point during the ep so that the people who don't know what happened would somehow get brought up to speed (PUN INTENDED) on what in the eff is going on, since they'd have no clue. And then the team would have to...what, start interacting with her like she'd been around this whole time? Or be like, "Oh hey, Black Canary. Glad you're back from wherever to help us out!" Or, maybe this is the first appearance of her, and we're getting sent back to when Sara returns to Star City and Laurel is somehow dead from something else? But then...that'd have to be after the fight, not during it, because there's no way the timeline would continue exactly the way we've watched it for that to happen. 

Time travel makes my brain hurt. 

I truly do believe they're not dumb enough to have this stretch over onto Arrow, but then I think...they truly are dumb enough to do that. But I still think no.

Or, maybe. But probably not.

Edited May 25, 2016 by apinknightmare

[bijoux]

13 minutes ago, Belinea said:

But didn't SA say on Lary King she won't be back? I cannot remember the exact wording. If they do a do-over that would absolutely be the worst. 

It was something along the lines of,

LK: She's not coming back?

SA: No.

LK: Simply no?

SA: Simply no.

12 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Wasnt the baby canary actress on set during the filming of finale?

She posted a photo from the lot during the filming of the finale, but we reached the conclusion she was doing ADR for 419 as I recall.

[Belinea]

7 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Time travel makes my brain hurt. 

It is not just you... In theory everything should be affected. But for people who don't watch Flash, you'd have no idea what is going on. That is (imo) the problem with all this connecting shows...nothing can really stand alone even though it should. Because no matter what it will always be weird. If Barry changes entire timelines at what point do you have to make the distinction what actually affects the story and what doesn't.

[Velocity23]

I remember her liking Bamford posts about shooting the finale. Or am i wrong?

Edited May 25, 2016 by Velocity23

[apinknightmare]

1 hour ago, Velocity23 said:

I remember her liking Bamford posts about shooting the finale. Or am i wrong?

I don't recall that, but I *think* @HighHopes said that the people on set were referring to this person as "Black Canary." If so, then I'm not sure why they'd be calling Baby Canary that since the show went out of its way to make it known that title belonged to Laurel. But I also don't think that person was Laurel Black Canary. So...apparition? Flashpoint Black Canary? Or did the people on set call her that for whatever reason, when it actually wasn't the Black Canary. We'll know by 9:01 this evening!

Edited May 25, 2016 by apinknightmare

[looptab]

I don't remember that, so I don't know for sure. But Canadagraphs said that she'd been on set a lot -without confirming whether or not she was the Canary in the finale.

[RussianRoulette]

I sure hope it's neither Black Canary (whatever the version, barring Sara's) nor Baby Canary, which I found completely bland and useless. A few more hours...

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, apinknightmare said:

I don't recall that, but I *think* @HighHopes said that the people on set were referring to this person as "Black Canary." If so, then I'm not sure why they'd be calling Baby Canary that since the show went out of its way to make it known that title belonged to Laurel. But I also don't think that person was Laurel Black Canary. So...apparition? Flashpoint Black Canary? Or did the people on set call her that for whatever reason, when it actually wasn't the Black Canary. We'll know by 9:01 this evening!

yes, she said they heard over the radio "black canary arriving". however, i don't necessarily believe that means anything.  the crew could just have used that as code since the character is dressed like Black Canary. 

I'm guessing this is just a matter of Oliver/GA appealing to the citizens of SC to help stop Darhk and his supporters. Baby Canary hears the plea and since she hates Darhk and his cult shows up in her costume to help. 

However, i don't know of its Madison or just the stunt woman. If it's just the crowd scene I'm guessing just stunt woman. if there's interaction, if she gets singled out to fight alongside TA or if we get a scene of Baby Canary listening to Oliver's speech them it'll be Madison. 

As for Flash, my guess is that's totally separate from Flarrow.

Spoiler

They can say that Barry is trapped in the Paradox, rather then having re-wrote the entire Flarrowverse.  So he created a pocket universe, that Barry gets to experience but doesn't effect Flarrow. You could even use that as the 4 part Flarrow crossover. The Pocket starts to breakdown and this causes havoc on E1-E4 (Supergirl) so everyone has to join together to save the multi-verse.

if they really wanted to re-write the Flarrowverse, i suspect they would have done it during a Flarrow crossover.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Belinea]

13 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

yes, she said they heard over the radio "black canary arriving". however, i don't necessarily believe that means anything.  the crew could just have used that as code since the character is dressed like Black Canary. 

For the record, I know she is a big part of the comics and I know that comic book fans really want her on this show and with GA but even though the show itself hasn't had a good back half, it isn't like her not being there has a terrible effect on the storytelling. There was not one time that I thought: "Oh, BC would really be useful here." It wasn't like she was so very important that her loss changed the entire show. At least for me it didn't. 

[apinknightmare]

If it is Baby Canary, I look forward to her screeching her way into helpfulness, unless she's magically learned how to fight over the past few weeks, which...with this show is entirely possible. 

[Sunshine]

I think Black Canary is the stunt double and it's about honoring the character somehow, probably when Oliver calls on his magic tattoo. (It hurts my head to write that.)

The dialogue tease about the world ending and honesty could be Donna to Felicity after GA comes crashing into the loft.  She is the character currently hung up on everybody being honest.  She knows Felicity works with GA.  She knows LL was the Black Canary.  It's probably not a leap for her to think maybe GA is Oliver at this point. 

Edited May 25, 2016 by Sunshine

[quarks]

I admit that part of the reason I'm tuning in tonight is to see what, if any, effect The Flash finale has on Arrow. That said, if it does have an effect - and that's a big if - my guess is that the effect won't come into play until the last 30 seconds.

[dtissagirl]

6 minutes ago, quarks said:

I admit that part of the reason I'm tuning in tonight is to see what, if any, effect The Flash finale has on Arrow. That said, if it does have an effect - and that's a big if - my guess is that the effect won't come into play until the last 30 seconds.

Do you think the note in red about Twitter on Guggie's finale script has to do with the effects of the timeline shift, rather than something Arrow-centric?

[jay741982]

8 minutes ago, quarks said:

I admit that part of the reason I'm tuning in tonight is to see what, if any, effect The Flash finale has on Arrow. That said, if it does have an effect - and that's a big if - my guess is that the effect won't come into play until the last 30 seconds.

Maybe that Cavernous Space is part of it? Or it's in the Flashback?

[Ceylon5]

I'm more concerned about the 15,000 unhackable nukes that have been launched.  How is the world not going to end in a fiery nuclear apocalypse?  This plot gets dafter by the day.  Why spend 2 episodes preventing the nukes from launching, only to have them launched in the finale? Why did they have those episodes at all?

If Barry's reset happens at just the right moment to save the world, then that's one hell of a coincidence and I don't see how they'll effectively explain it on Arrow.

[quarks]

1 minute ago, dtissagirl said:

Do you think the note in red about Twitter on Guggie's finale script has to do with the effects of the timeline shift, rather than something Arrow-centric?

Yeah, that was one of the first things I thought of, right after, "Barry, you're an idiot," and "Iris, honey, you deserve so much better than this."  

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

Do you think the note in red about Twitter on Guggie's finale script has to do with the effects of the timeline shift, rather than something Arrow-centric?

I'm sorry, but f*ck Barry sideways if he not only resets time, but resets time to the point where someone ends up in a cavernous space!!! At least he ended up in an actual house. Ugh, I hate him.

[dtissagirl]

I'm just imagining the network ordering a flashback to Barry fucking up right before whatever timeshift happens on Arrow, because that's how network executives like to explain things to clueless audiences.

[Mellowyellow]

Does this mean we can reset season 4????? 

[RussianRoulette]

7 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I'm sorry, but f*ck Barry sideways if he not only resets time, but resets time to the point where someone ends up in a cavernous space!!! At least he ended up in an actual house. Ugh, I hate him.

I this point I just hope that the cavernous space mystery is not some of tabula-rasa-gotcha moment. Or worse Earth 77879799

[Morrigan2575]

16 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I'm sorry, but f*ck Barry sideways if he not only resets time, but resets time to the point where someone ends up in a cavernous space!!! At least he ended up in an actual house. Ugh, I hate him.

Wouldn't it be funny if Central City was the cavernous space? Like Barry just wiped CC off the map because it's trapped in the Paradox?

Edited May 25, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[jay741982]

1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Wouldn't it be funny if Central City wad the cavernous space? Like Barry just wiped CC off the map because it's trapped in the Paradox?

Ooh I kinda like that idea 

[bijoux]

What if we're all giving this cavernous space more importance than it actually has? There is a showdown with the Ghosts in the bunker andthe suit cabinets get blown up. What if it's just Oliver (on his own or with Felicity) just surveying the damage there?

[ARLES]

Question: do you guys think Olicity and thier issues and even talking is taking a back seat because writers killed off Laurel and they were worried it might look like they killed Laurel  for Olicity?

 

Because they have basically ignored Oliver and Felicity and made them act like nothing happened . As if they did not even have a relationship 

[apinknightmare]

9 minutes ago, bijoux said:

What if we're all giving this cavernous space more importance than it actually has? There is a showdown with the Ghosts in the bunker andthe suit cabinets get blown up. What if it's just Oliver (on his own or with Felicity) just surveying the damage there?

That's probably all it is. Just the two of them sitting there with electrical sparks going off in the background. Felicity maybe asks "What do we do now?" And Oliver replies with some cheeseball line about hope. He then walks over and pulls his suit dummy upright or whatever.

 

Fin

[Morrigan2575]

10 minutes ago, bijoux said:

What if we're all giving this cavernous space more importance than it actually has? There is a showdown with the Ghosts in the bunker andthe suit cabinets get blown up. What if it's just Oliver (on his own or with Felicity) just surveying the damage there?

it could be nothing more than where the dome collapsed which we saw last week. however i think it's MG's line in the script about the Internet Breaking which has people expecting something big

[RussianRoulette]

7 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

it could be nothing more than where the dome collapsed which we saw last week. however i think it's MG's line in the script about the Internet Breaking which has people expecting something big

*Gasp* but with the Internet breaking it would mean serious consequences for Felicity & Friends! What would be their purpose? (I jest, I jest!)

[apinknightmare]

14 minutes ago, ARLES said:

Question: do you guys think Olicity and thier issues and even talking is taking a back seat because writers killed off Laurel and they were worried it might look like they killed Laurel  for Olicity?

Oliver and Felicity were engaged and had actually set a wedding date while Laurel was alive. So I don't think they're trying to make a point of anything since Laurel wasn't any kind of road block for them. 

[dtissagirl]

17 minutes ago, ARLES said:

Question: do you guys think Olicity and thier issues and even talking is taking a back seat because writers killed off Laurel and they were worried it might look like they killed Laurel  for Olicity?

I don't think the writers cared enough about Laurel to worry about what her death might look like, so: no.

Edited May 25, 2016 by dtissagirl

[lemotomato]

I don't think MG's notes said that it would be Internet breaking, just that it would have Twitter folks speculating.

[bijoux]

18 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I don't think MG's notes said that it would be Internet breaking, just that it would have Twitter folks speculating.

[dtissagirl]

There's a whole sentence going on between "Twitter" and "future" there.

Let Twitter freak the fuck out about what the hell we just did to Arrow's future, as we CRANE UP.

[quarks]

This is now making me wonder if Twitter was mentioned in the final pages of the Flash script.

[RussianRoulette]

And letting people freak out over twitter all summer long kinda compensates for the lack of promo (and it's free!)

[AyChihuahua]

Please let SA's tweet mean Oliver's FINALLY going to kill Malcolm!

Come onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!

[Belinea]

It will probably be something like 'letting go of the dark to embrace the light'

[Soulfire]

Feels like a lot of people (including me) will be on Grant Gustin's-name-in-the-credits watch tonight.

[Guest]

Is Oliver gonna tell everyone he's GA now? Or is that too soon? I always expected it to happen at some point. 

I'd love it to be about getting rid of Malcolm finally but I'm not so sure about him anymore.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Guest

[looptab]

2 hours ago, bijoux said:

What if we're all giving this cavernous space more importance than it actually has? There is a showdown with the Ghosts in the bunker andthe suit cabinets get blown up. What if it's just Oliver (on his own or with Felicity) just surveying the damage there?

That's what I thought it would be in the beginning. And then a thousand different scenarios kept coming xD  

Just a few hours people! I hope the finale lives up to my expectations and doesn't leave me underwhelmed like last season's did.

[BkWurm1]

47 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Is Oliver gonna tell everyone he's GA now? Or is that too soon? I always expected it to happen at some point. 

I'd love it to be about getting rid of Malcolm finally but I'm not so sure about him anymore.

This was my reaction to his tweet as well.  I hate the idea because it makes no sense unless you are Tony Stark.  They'd have to walk it back somehow next season to be at all effective. 

[Morrigan2575]

I thought he was going to "out himself" after reading a WM interview several weeks ago.  So far nothing has changed my mind, in fact outing Laurel as BC seemed to set this possibility up.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[looptab]

I'm not a fan of this scenario..so that's what's going to happen, of course.

[thegirlsleuth]

6 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

Oh man, I hadn't thought about mystery Black Canary being part of some Flashpoint scenario. If that's the case, maybe it's Sara, and that's why CL mentioned coming over to Arrow for a few eps next season? 

Although I'm not sure how that'd work...they'd have to Flashpoint us at some point during the ep so that the people who don't know what happened would somehow get brought up to speed (PUN INTENDED) on what in the eff is going on, since they'd have no clue. And then the team would have to...what, start interacting with her like she'd been around this whole time? Or be like, "Oh hey, Black Canary. Glad you're back from wherever to help us out!" Or, maybe this is the first appearance of her, and we're getting sent back to when Sara returns to Star City and Laurel is somehow dead from something else? But then...that'd have to be after the fight, not during it, because there's no way the timeline would continue exactly the way we've watched it for that to happen. 

 

This reminds me of when Dawn showed up on Buffy.  That's not one of my happier memories.

[kismet]

I hope he doesn't out himself, that's just so meh & not fun. I love secret identities in superhero shows, otherwise its just grown adults without powers in Lycra trying to save the world. Which is a little questionable all things considered.

It makes sense for Tony Stark because it fits in with his egotistical nature. Arrow's OQ is not an egomaniac, so it makes not sense that he feels the need for the whole world to know his secret. His loved ones need to know, but other than that it's just out of character for OQ to out himself.

[RussianRoulette]

If he already outs himself, wouldn't it kind of defeat the purpose of the show? Keeping in mind that 5677888 (not exaggerating at all btw ;) persons already knows his secret ? Wouldn't that create more danger for his partners who, btw, might not be ready to acknowledge their secret night job? Also, the existential question of how to deal with being the hood/the arrow and Oliver Queen been for nothing because this would not provide any clear answer to that. 

[Belinea]

Also Oliver would still be responsible for assaulting people and being a vigilante because the law might be a joke on this show but in reality, you should still face some serious consequences for that kind of stuff.

[kismet]

Because I don't want to think about how else the writers could screw up the show with a big reveal. Or ponder why SA thinks what he thinks. I'm just going to believe that the 3-4yrs have been leading up to OQ giving us answers to the big questions -

Coffee or TV

Chocolate or Vanilla

Boxers or Briefs

Britney or Christina

Beer or Wine

To Be or Not to Be

Most importantly, why he ever chose to pose for that picture as a creepy serial killer? Also why the production department decided to frame it, keep it relevant for 3 years & declare it "cute"? These last questions might be too much for this finale, perhaps I will wait until s5 for those critical answers.

[Guest]

Only on Arrow would you spend a season with focus on O/F as a couple and then have nothing in the finale. LOL. *shakes head* I get them not getting back together yet but nothing? No hope at all? Weird story choice, IMO. 

Edited May 25, 2016 by Guest

[lemotomato]

Quote

I think there's always hope for Oliver and Felicity, but that hope is not addressed in this episode at all.

Well then. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited May 25, 2016 by lemotomato

[apinknightmare]

Glad I sat through all this misery for not even a hint of resolution.