Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Velocity23]

Edited May 15, 2016 by Velocity23

[Morrigan2575]

That's not exactly what she said. she said she doesn't know, doesn't think it will happen in this realm of the show but, then went on to say, who knows could happen in S6 or even S5.

[Velocity23]

awww ok :)

[BkWurm1]

4 hours ago, bijoux said:

I can't believe I'm saying this, but you know what I actually find more intriguing? How Oliver manages to beat Reiter on the island. Beating DD seems relatively clear cut at this point, but if Oliver actually managed to beat Reiter wouldn't he know this by now? I've basically got three options.

1. He beat him by becoming darkness, what the hell ever that means, and he couldn't do that again now.
2. In a surprising twist, Oliver doesn't actually beat his nemesis. Instead it was DD who showed up on the island, offed Reiter and collected the idol. Oliver, for one reason or another just never saw his face. Maybe it happened while he was fighting demonic Poppy.
3. He used The Photo as a shield of goodness to repell Reiter.

I think I'd prefer the last one for shits and giggles.

I imagine after using the picture up against such evil, it absorbed the evil and thus explaining any darkness we saw in Laurel since season two began since she was carrying it with her everywhere. 

1 hour ago, Velocity23 said:

Ok, back to Queen Inc it is.  ;)

[apinknightmare]

3 hours ago, looptab said:

I know you all have moved on from this, but I just wanted to put my 2cents in: I think Diggle is ashamed because he killed him in a fit of rage. At least that's what I got from his face after he shot him. Andy was goading him and goading him, and, sure, he was actually threatening his family, but I don't know that Dig wouldn't have found another way - considering the discussion he had about him with Lyla after he beat him in 410 - had he been more rational, rather than acting "like the man she divorced", with a one-track mind, blind to anything else. Hope they'll expand on this, though.

Well, he flat-out told Oliver he didn't want Lyla to look at him any differently. My issue is that I don't quite get why he thinks she would? Oliver is the one who always wants to "find another way," not Lyla. Even despite her conversation with him about him acting like the man she divorced, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. He told the truth the one guy he has reason to believe would look at him differently. I suppose it would make more sense to me if Oliver had been super judge-y about it or had a terrible reaction to it that made Diggle question telling Lyla the truth. I get that he might not be thinking clearly, but, again, I would've liked if someone had had some kind of terrible reaction to the truth that set the wheels turning in Digg's head that what he did wasn't justifiable. 

Since DR talked about there being some fallout with Lyla from this, I would've preferred if Diggle had straight-up lied to Lyla about killing Andy at all, or if they'd had Andy goad Diggle into killing him without bringing a threat to Sara into it. Because I just don't see Lyla being like, "I can't believe you killed a man who said he would never stop coming for our daughter!" And I don't see this as some "defining moment" of Diggle going off the rails and making Lyla believe that he's always going to revert back to the man she divorced or whatever. I'll withhold judgment until I see what happens, and hope that any fallout also involves some other kind of transgression on Diggle's part. 

[looptab]

@apinknightmare I totally get your point. My point was that he might feel that it's how he did it, rather than him killing Andy or why, might get Lyla to look at him differently. I'm not sure I can explain it properly, but I think he's more upset that he killed Andy because he lost it.

I agree though that it isn't enough to cause a major issue for Dyla. Maybe there will be something else.

[Velocity23]

[Angel12d]

So O/F staying (though not together romantically) and Diggle and Thea leaving? What the hell is gonna happen to Thea?

Edited May 15, 2016 by Angel12d

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, looptab said:

@apinknightmare I totally get your point. My point was that he might feel that it's how he did it, rather than him killing Andy or why, might get Lyla to look at him differently. I'm not sure I can explain it properly, but I think he's more upset that he killed Andy because he lost it.

I totally understand. It would just make more sense to me if he was generally ashamed of what he'd done and lied to everyone about it, not just her.

[Morrigan2575]

3 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

So O/F staying (though not together romantically) and Diggle and Thea leaving? What the hell is gonna happen to Thea?

sounds about right, i think we all kind of predicted that awhile back

[bijoux]

Well, I just object to that comic. Dig just rapels down into the sewards/dome by himself? Where's my GA giving Spartan a lift like Laurel got? Harumph.

[apinknightmare]

9 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

So O/F staying (though not together romantically) and Diggle and Thea leaving? What the hell is gonna happen to Thea?

Hopefully she's not off making evil plans as a Merlyn. 

[looptab]

5 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I totally understand. It would just make more sense to me if he was generally ashamed of what he'd done and lied to everyone about it, not just her.

Oh, ok, cool. :) I thought I wasn't clear in my previous post - I wasn't arguing against your point, just adding to the things to be considered :)

Yeah, I guess it'd make more sense. Let's hope we get more clarity.

[Angel12d]

2 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Hopefully she's not off making evil plans as a Merlyn. 

Ugh, I dread to think though. I know I said the other day that if they were going to make her dark, just do it and don't be wishy-washy about it. But I've since realized that we'd just be stuck on the same boring story of Oliver trying to save her from the darkness next season too. 

So now I hope she doesn't go dark but finally gets rid of Malcolm and disowns him as her father or something. And then maybe goes off to find Roy and be happy for a while.

Edited May 15, 2016 by Angel12d

[apinknightmare]

Just now, Angel12d said:

So now I hope she doesn't go dark but finally gets rid of Malcolm and disowns him as her father or something. And then maybe goes off to find Roy and be happy for a while.

Yes, please. They can have their own Ivy Town.

Somehow, though, I don't think this is going to happen.

[Angel12d]

6 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Yes, please. They can have their own Ivy Town.

Somehow, though, I don't think this is going to happen.

I don't think so either but we can dream! Not that I'm a necessarily a Roy/Thea shipper, I don't mind either way tbh, but anything is better than the making of Thea Merlyn. 

[BkWurm1]

40 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

sounds about right, i think we all kind of predicted that awhile back

I guess I'm still waiting for them to raise the stakes cause Oliver in Star City with Felicity around is an Oliver that has what he needs to tick no matter how much he loves Thea and Diggle.  I'd much prefer them doing this than sending Felicity away (though that only means they'll probably do that to her at the end of Season five instead, lol).  There's even a built in reason why they shouldn't try to get back together, if it doesn't work, then there's no one to pick of the slack for the team and so it's too big a risk to even try. 

[Mellowyellow]

58 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

So O/F staying (though not together romantically) and Diggle and Thea leaving? What the hell is gonna happen to Thea?

Omg make it happen show!!!!! Then we can have fanfics about Olicity doing small missions together and getting all tense over the break!

[BkWurm1]

37 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Omg make it happen show!!!!! Then we can have fanfics about Olicity doing small missions together and getting all tense over the break!

Really it would be for the best if all the season finales were done with fan fic potential in mind.  I know I sound like I'm being sarcastic but last summer was the best hiatus because of all the road trip fics.  I was kept in the perfect fluff all summer long.  Now I'm ready for finding their way back stories without it being some quick fix (like what popped up right after the break up)

[nksarmi]

17 hours ago, kismet said:

Dig's lie for me was big. In my mind it was a little worse than bmd in the sense that he didn't have to lie. He is only protecting himself. He could have told Lyla the truth, but instead he fabricated a story. There is withholding a truth while you're trying to figure out a situation. That was not the case with Dig. He straight up lied. It was lying when there was no need to lying. I hate having drama between L&D but I want there to be repercussions. You can't blatantly lie to your partner and expect them to just be OK with it, especially considering Lyla is soldier and would understand. Big mistake in my book.

I couldn't disagree more. Oliver never had to lie because a) Felicity can keep secrets, b) it's the kind of secret that will come out when one decides to run for political office and make yourself the target of a guy like Darhk, and c) there are other options besides agreeing to BM's demands.

Diggle lied because he went through a trauma and he is having difficulty processing it. He feels deeply ashamed and doesn't want Lyla to be ashamed of him. That fact that Lyla would have shot Andy about 10 minutes before Diggle did isn't computing in his head right now. As someone who had been through war and worked for Amanda Waller, only complete character assassination would have Lyla not understand both why he did and why he lied. This is SO easily forgivable. What Oliver did - not so much.

[nksarmi]

16 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

My point was that he doesn't seem to have any issue coming to terms with what he did, because he readily admitted to Lyla that he killed Andy. That was your initial point that I responded to. If he'd lied to her about killing him, I would totally agree with you that he was having issues coming to terms. To me, there isn't that big of a difference between "I killed him because he threatened my life" and "I killed him because he threatened your life and Sara's." I'm just not understanding the reasoning for the lie or why he's so hesitant to tell Lyla the truth. Lyla wouldn't think twice about killing someone who threatened their daughter, and I'm sure Digg knows that. 

I think it's that Diggle killed Andy when he really didn't have to. At the moment Diggle shot Andy - there was no active threat. Now I have ZERO issues with what Diggle did. But I understand that HE does. I can see that he told Oliver in shook but by the time he had to tell Lyla, he couldn't face having her think he was a cold blooded killer.

Now again, I don't think Lyla will see it that way. But for now, I think Diggle does and that's his motivation.

[tv echo]

I think it would be interesting if S5 is Arrow: Under the Dome, with our Arrow cast and many city residents all trapped inside the dome while Star City is nuked outside the dome, but conveniently with little or no fallout spreading to other regions or cities.  Then in this little enclosed world, it would be Team Arrow versus lawless criminals (including all those villains who escaped from prison).  On the plus side, that could bring classic Arrow conflicts where there are no superpowers, metahumans or magic, just down and dirty street fighting - no questions about why not call Barry on speed dial (he can't get into the dome).  On the negative side, they can't stay under the dome forever because you need the annual Flash crossover episode.

However, I know the spoilers are indicating the team splits up.

Edited May 15, 2016 by tv echo

[Angel12d]

Maybe Lyla tells Diggle to take some time away to get himself together? Because in 420 she told him that he was acting like the man she divorced and now DR says that Diggle will pay for lying to Lyla. It doesn't seem to be a huge lie, IMO, because he still told her that he killed him. I'm guessing Diggle does something else in the next 2 episodes that makes Lyla think he's regressing or whatever and she tells him to take some time. I can see her being more rational about it than angry, especially as she has a child to consider now.

Edited May 15, 2016 by Angel12d

[nksarmi]

2 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Maybe Lyla tells Diggle to take some time away to get himself together? Because in 420 she told him that he was acting like the man she divorced and now DR says that Diggle will pay for lying to Lyla. It doesn't seem to be a huge lie, IMO, because he still told her that he killed him. I'm guessing Diggle does something else in the next 2 episodes that makes Lyla think he's regressing or whatever and she tells him to take some time. I can see her being more rational about it than angry, especially as she has a child to consider now.

Well maybe "paying" has something to do with what Darhk does. I mean it really did feel like Andy was baiting Diggle into killing him - like he REALLY wanted it. And we still don't know exactly why the ghost's DNA was scrambled or what that meant. If they haven't completely abandoned those things - I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the ghosts did die and were magically reanimated or something (as opposed to Darkh's brainwashed followers).

So anyway, maybe Darkh does something to Diggle because of Andy's death that makes him decide he needs to leave Star City for awhile - but he leaves WITH Lyla and Sara. I just can't believe this would make Lyla abandoned Diggle. I can believe that they'd stay together but leave the city.

[Angel12d]

I mean, I'd prefer it if Lyla and Diggle remained solid but I always wondered if they would end up messing with their relationship a little bit. And now is the time to do it seeing as Diggle is a bit of a mess himself. It makes sense for things to completely fall apart for him.

But really I have no clue what's gonna happen. I'm just happy speculating dumb stuff. LOL.

Edited May 15, 2016 by Angel12d

[jay741982]

I was thinking after Diggle lied to Lyla regarding what led up to Andy's death that maybe something else happens by the end of the season that causes Dyla drama and it goes into Season 5 while Olicity find their way back together during the hiatus and into Season 5

[apinknightmare]

46 minutes ago, nksarmi said:

I think it's that Diggle killed Andy when he really didn't have to. At the moment Diggle shot Andy - there was no active threat. Now I have ZERO issues with what Diggle did. But I understand that HE does. I can see that he told Oliver in shook but by the time he had to tell Lyla, he couldn't face having her think he was a cold blooded killer.

Now again, I don't think Lyla will see it that way. But for now, I think Diggle does and that's his motivation.

That's why I wrote (earlier today - way after this comment) that I wished Oliver or someone had a negative reaction to what Diggle had done that would've made him rethink telling Lyla what had actually happened, or that they'd just left the threat to Sara completely out of it. Because even distraught, despite their earlier convo, I find it a stretch that Diggle would be worried about Lyla judging him over killing someone who said he wouldn't ever stop trying to harm their daughter. 

I suppose I'll be okay with it if there isn't HUGE drama associated with the lie, or if something else compounds it. If I'm in for a lot of drama over this, no thanks!

[BkWurm1]

4 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

That's why I wrote (earlier today - way after this comment) that I wished Oliver or someone had a negative reaction to what Diggle had done that would've made him rethink telling Lyla what had actually happened, or that they'd just left the threat to Sara completely out of it. Because even distraught, despite their earlier convo, I find it a stretch that Diggle would be worried about Lyla judging him over killing someone who said he wouldn't ever stop trying to harm their daughter. 

I suppose I'll be okay with it if there isn't HUGE drama associated with the lie, or if something else compounds it. If I'm in for a lot of drama over this, no thanks!

I'm braced for drama.  And not the good kind.  :(

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I'm braced for drama.  And not the good kind.  :(

I know, I weep. :( I hope there's more to any fallout. Unless the fallout involves Diggle taking off at the end of the season without them, in which case no. NO TO ALL OF THIS.

[hogwash]

I keep telling myself what's the worse that could happen since they're married with a kid... Keep your grubby hands off every Diggle not named Andy, Arrow!

[calliope1975]

The writers need to work on all the secret keeping on this show. Diggle tells Oliver but can't tell Lyla who would totally NOT have a problem with how things went down with his brother. Oliver tells everyone and MM about the BMD but not the one person who would support him. If they had kept these secrets from everyone, the fallout makes sense, but since they are so chatty, the lies just come across as confusing and unnecessary.

[Velocity23]

[bijoux]

That makes me think of that "Felicity asks Oliver to dinner" scenario.

What did DR say at the panel when SA told him he spoiled the finale?

[catrox14]

I'm probably alone in this but I thought Andy  wanted John to kill him and was baiting him him into it. I think Andy knew on some  level that he would never be free of Darkh and he could not live with it and the guilt that was there underneath the messed up control by Darkh. I felt like if John would talk about it he might come to the conclusion that he did the right thing for the world and Andy.

[Angel12d]

28 minutes ago, bijoux said:

That makes me think of that "Felicity asks Oliver to dinner" scenario.

That's what I thought would happen. Or Oliver asks Felicity. Just kind of low-key. I just can't see a bad ending for them (even if they're not together) tbh. They're still in love with each other. It's not like anyone cheated and they haven't fallen out of love. There's just a confiding/trust issue.

[Morrigan2575]

52 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

SA said that they're at a mature place but there is no firm resolution on the relationship, not like S3 ending.

[BkWurm1]

We really need to work on getting a mole in the writer's room.  I need to know what they are planning for season 5.  The ambiguity is getting to me. 

[bijoux]

SA basically confirmed that Oliver and Felicity are the team members staying in SC. And let's say they make plans to get together for Big Belly. But then as they are on their way there (each from different location), the ground opens up and there's that crater from the end of the script separating them physically just as they were starting to gravitate to each other emotionally?

[looptab]

I'm kinda worried about some things I read from JB's panel. References to him still having Vandal Savage's ashes. I hope whatever he does with those ashes doesn't mess with arrow and it's just there to come full circle with Legends.

[Angel12d]

6 minutes ago, looptab said:

I'm kinda worried about some things I read from JB's panel. References to him still having Vandal Savage's ashes. I hope whatever he does with those ashes doesn't mess with arrow and it's just there to come full circle with Legends.

Yikes. The ashes thing happened on Arrow though, didn't it? Which means it'll probably have consequences on Arrow.

[bijoux]

Yeesh. I just hope it doesn't bring VS back once he's terminated on LOT next week.

2 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Yikes. The ashes thing happened on Arrow though, didn't it? Which means it'll probably have consequences on Arrow.

Maybe the team just learns about Malcolm doing it?

[looptab]

Yeah, but, he was supposed to do that already, since Rip went back because VS was alive and conquering the world in his future. Wasn't he?

1 hour ago, bijoux said:

What did DR say at the panel when SA told him he spoiled the finale?

Did he say that? I haven't seen this posted in the BTS thread. 

[Carrie Ann]

6 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

per EBR she didn't lose the company just voted out as CEO.

I'm now wondering if there's going to be a S3 redo where this new charismatic James guy is the new CEO of PT.  

5 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Well then he better be evil from the start cause I'm not up for doing a love triangle at all. 

(From the Hopes/Fears thread) If the James guy IS the new CEO, then I feel like that would have to be Sidney Palmer, right? Why else would they bring that up on LoT? I DNW that, of course--no thank you to any more Palmers on Arrow and BIG no thank you to redoing anything related to S3--but it wouldn't make sense to me to bring in a new character to be CEO of PT and not have it be Sidney. My preference would be that Felicity just works on her own stuff for awhile, and we don't hear about PT except in passing sometimes.

[bijoux]

7 minutes ago, looptab said:

Yeah, but, he was supposed to do that already, since Rip went back because VS was alive and conquering the world in his future. Wasn't he?

Did he say that? I haven't seen this posted in the BTS thread. 

Here's a tweet from a person at the con. I saw others as well.

[apinknightmare]

5 minutes ago, Carrie Ann said:

(From the Hopes/Fears thread) If the James guy IS the new CEO, then I feel like that would have to be Sidney Palmer, right? Why else would they bring that up on LoT? I DNW that, of course--no thank you to any more Palmers on Arrow and BIG no thank you to redoing anything related to S3--but it wouldn't make sense to me to bring in a new character to be CEO of PT and not have it be Sidney. My preference would be that Felicity just works on her own stuff for awhile, and we don't hear about PT except in passing sometimes.

Do we have any idea what Sidney Palmer looks like? I only ask because IIRC the casting call was open to all ethnicities. Unless that's a normal thing? IDK.

[bijoux]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

Do we have any idea what Sidney Palmer looks like? I only ask because IIRC the casting call was open to all ethnicities. Unless that's a normal thing? IDK.

Similar enough to Ray for him to mistake a bust of Sidney for one of him.

[Carrie Ann]

5 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Do we have any idea what Sidney Palmer looks like? I only ask because IIRC the casting call was open to all ethnicities. Unless that's a normal thing? IDK.

Ooh, great point! We know that he looks a lot like Ray, because there was a bust of him in the future PT building. So yeah, maybe it won't be Sidney. Still seems dumb to me to throw another rando CEO at PT when they've intro-ed the Sidney thing, but that casting call does make me feel like "James" isn't Sidney, and maybe isn't involved with PT at all.

Edited May 15, 2016 by Carrie Ann

[Sunshine]

Didn't David say people are leaving?  We've figured it out here but unspoiled people would have no idea.  

[BkWurm1]

3 minutes ago, Carrie Ann said:

Ooh, great point! We know that he looks a lot like Ray, because there was a bust of him in the future PT building and Ray thought it was him, hijinks, it was Sidney. So yeah, maybe it won't be Sidney. Still seems dumb to me to throw another rando CEO at PT when they've intro-ed the Sidney thing, but that casting call does make me feel like "James" isn't Sidney, and maybe isn't involved with PT at all.

I can't remember what board I read it on (either Mind Your Surroundings or the LoT or maybe some random interview) but I read somewhere that they were thinking about introducing Sydney on Arrow but changed their minds and so if he showed it probably would only be on LoT.  (That whole part was what I read but paraphrased)  Personally I want him to be basically Ray's twin so BR can play both parts and really do up something for comedic effect but ONLY on LoT. 

[looptab]

Maybe he was referring to the Dahrk dies thing.