Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Guest]

Laurel's death is crossing over into all three of the Arrow-verse shows. This just tells me it's meant to be big and they're trying to tell the audience that it's permanent. 

Also I really don't see there ever being an E2 character on Arrow. And there are way too many characters on The Flash as it is. What makes people think they'll give up screen time to Laurel's E2 version beyond one episode?

[bijoux]

47 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I've been paying so much attention to Flash, /sarcasm font, that I thought NotLaurel would show up tomorrow... it's two weeks from now? Way to build the opposite of momentum.

I thought the same. It would make more sense to use it fresh off her funeral on Arrow. Good thing you mentioned it, because there is a good possibility I'd have gone into the wrong thread asking about whether Black Siren was dead come Wednesday morning.

[looptab]

Same, haha. I realized it was for 222 just after reading Morrigan's post, even though I knew that KC shot those scenes a couple weeks after her departure from Arrow. 

[Primal Slayer]

Just as Sara was killed and brought back, bringing in E2 Laurel could be done. Will i hold my breathe? No. But do i know the possibility is there, hell yeah. 

[Velocity23]

But that would make E2 a special unicorn type of case when they are killing off the majority of e2 people outside Jessie and Harry. Even Killerfrost is done. They are finishing off Earth 2 storylines with the doppelgangers. And they will kill of LLs E2 doppel also.

[Midnight Lullaby]

Sara was brought back because they needed her for LoT, she was never meant to come back to Arrow. Ray's reception was too poor to do a solo show like they planned originally so they brought her back. The situations are so different..also Sara was still Sara, someone they audience knew. Earth 2 Laurel isn't Laurel, she just looks like her. They would have killed a character that was known for being the Black Canary to bring in a new one that shares her physical appearance but is a minor character in the comics and wouldn't even have the name to help her out.

I'd like to see Earth 2 Felicity and Dig but for fun in one episode. Those wouldn't be the characters I love anyway.

[Primal Slayer]

She can't be a special unicorn when Lindas doppelganger was allowed to survive. But we'll have to wait and see.

[Midnight Lullaby]

Allowed to survive is one thing, bring her back for a bigger role on Arrow or on The Flash is another.

[Velocity23]

But is Linda coming back? They gave KC a last parting gift with a guest appearances on Flash and Vixen. When it would have been more logical to have her appear on Legends for the last time.

But since LLs death will have closure with Sara/Lance scenes, they will stop any possibilities of LL coming back as her E2 character.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Velocity23

[Primal Slayer]

Who knows if she will come back, that'll be up for them. It isn't much of a parting gift to kill off E1 Laurel then have KC come back to kill off her E2 counterpart and graciously have her feature in a 2 min cartoon.

Caity thought she was dead as a doornail but things changed. The possibility is there if they keep E2 alive. 

Trying to suddenly make logic out of what these people do isn't going to do anything. 

[AyChihuahua]

It isn't logic; it's business. KC as LL was not a success. The only reason anyone warmed to her at all in recent days is bc she became a background player. She's most likely in the top 3 or 4 expensive actors on the show, and they were getting no bang for that high buck. THAT is why she's not coming back in any meaningful way, in any permutation: because she was a FAILURE.

Caity Lotz was NOT a failure, plus they needed her for a spinoff.

[Primal Slayer]

Lol ok. People have been warming to her since s3. The writers chose not to get the most bang for their buck with the character. But anything is possible with these people so if they feel like bringing her back full time or part time,  they will.

[quarks]

Just now, Primal Slayer said:

Just as Sara was killed and brought back, bringing in E2 Laurel could be done. Will i hold my breathe? No. But do i know the possibility is there, hell yeah. 

Could be, sure. Will be? Probably not.

17 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Who knows if she will come back, that'll be up for them. It isn't much of a parting gift to kill off E1 Laurel then have KC come back to kill off her E2 counterpart and graciously have her feature in a 2 min cartoon.

Caity thought she was dead as a doornail but things changed. The possibility is there if they keep E2 alive. 

Trying to suddenly make logic out of what these people do isn't going to do anything. 

It is logical if you look at things from their point of view - which is to make money. If Berlanti thinks it makes financial sense (not story sense) to bring Laurel back (as Black Siren or whatever), she'll be brought back. If he doesn't think it makes financial sense, she won't.

The numbers - ratings/viewers/social media trends/merchandise - suggest that bringing her back would not make financial sense.  Of course, it's still entirely possible that Arrow's numbers will plummet during the next few episodes, and Flash will get a ratings/viewers high for episode 222, but even if both of those prove true, there's a number of other negative numbers to contend with.

[spartan]

LOL, I predict E2 LAUREL  will be captured by ARGUS

[Guest]

Meh. I guess anything is possible until we know what happens in that episode of The Flash...which other people will have to tell me about because I have no desire to watch. Thanking in advance! :D

Also I watched the promo for the next episode and there's the part where Diggle is tied up and it looks like Andy is stabbing him in the side. Did anyone else get flashbacks of the same thing happening to Oliver in the s1 flashbacks? Boy, that was a sentence. LOL. Didn't Wintergreen tie him up and stab him in the side too? 

I like parallels. 

[AyChihuahua]

16 minutes ago, spartan said:

LOL, I predict E2 LAUREL  will be captured by ARGUS

Why is the idea of E2 Laurel being captured by ARGUS funny? What am I missing?

[looptab]

 I believe spartan is LOLing at us. Because their prediction will come true and we will be desperate while spartan will have the last LOL. Except, I'd find a Mr.Burns laugh more fitting? Try with BWahahah, maybe.

[AyChihuahua]

10 minutes ago, looptab said:

 I believe spartan is LOLing at us. Because their prediction will come true and we will be desperate while spartan will have the last LOL. Except, I'd find a Mr.Burns laugh more fitting? Try with BWahahah, maybe.

I think that's against board rules. Spartan, are you LOLing at other posters, or at the rather unfunny idea of a person being captured by ARGUS?

[Carrie Ann]

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

Trying to suddenly make logic out of what these people do isn't going to do anything. 

42 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

The writers chose not to get the most bang for their buck with the character.

The reason I don't have any concern that LL would return in an ongoing capacity is that the EPs and network had to have already performed a cost/benefit analysis and judged in favor of the axe. The benefits of getting rid of the character had to outweigh her value--from a purely financial standpoint certainly, but probably also from storytelling and possibly BTS/production standpoints as well. Even the brand cache of the BC, the sunk narrative and budget costs, and any perceived risk of losing viewers, weren't enough to merit her continued role on the show. So bringing any form of LL back in an ongoing capacity, especially without the BC mantle attached? No. What value she had, from a business and narrative standpoint, was as the BC, and critics/viewers could barely be bothered to care about that "journey" the first go-round.

[dtissagirl]

They are actually trying to get the most bang out of killing Black Canary. Not even Laurel Lance -- she has no cache, really -- but by killing the brand/legacy/iconic name *Black Canary*. First they made very very sure everyone knows it was Black Canary [even more so than Laurel] who died, and next they'll capitalize on it by treating this death as a plot device in the other two shows. For a character that never brought them any significant returns, they are for sure trying to monetize her death something fierce.

[looptab]

Oliver, Felicity, and  a shaman in a casino. Sounds perfect!

[dtissagirl]

If this storyline doesn't end in something like the white totem works ~by the power of love~ in contrast to DD's totem being powered by death, I've been watching this show FOR NOTHING.

[looptab]

It'd better be. I'm already rolling my eyes for this "learn the dark arts" thing, the least they could do is throw that in!

[nksarmi]

1 hour ago, Angel12d said:

Meh. I guess anything is possible until we know what happens in that episode of The Flash...which other people will have to tell me about because I have no desire to watch. Thanking in advance! :D

Also I watched the promo for the next episode and there's the part where Diggle is tied up and it looks like Andy is stabbing him in the side. Did anyone else get flashbacks of the same thing happening to Oliver in the s1 flashbacks? Boy, that was a sentence. LOL. Didn't Wintergreen tie him up and stab him in the side too? 

I like parallels. 

The only thing I could think of with those pictures is that Diggle is SO much bigger than Andy that I half expect Diggle could still kick Andy's butt while hand cuffed to the ceiling.

[SmallScreenDiva]

13 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

If this storyline doesn't end in something like the white totem works ~by the power of love~ in contrast to DD's totem being powered by death, I've been watching this show FOR NOTHING.

I need the immortal shaman with the excessive hair (though not in the comic preview) to tell Oliver and Felicity them having sex, nay MAKING LOVE is what will power the white idol ;)

[dtissagirl]

Right? The set up for Fuck or [the entire world will] Die is RIGHT THERE, FOR FUCK'S SAKE.

[Midnight Lullaby]

Oooooh now we are talking. It's May Sweeps and I demand a sex scene.

[Guest]

O/F are going back to an underground casino. It's like the good old days. Hehe. So that explains the fancy outfits. 

I am anticipating some 'power of love' cheesiness with the whole dark vs light totem thing.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Guest

[lemotomato]

Any bets on whether the "feels good having you inside me" line from the last time they were in an underground casino gets brought up?

Edited May 2, 2016 by lemotomato

[way2interested]

So are they possibly not going to Lian Yu and Arrow's just reusing sets again? But I guess magic vision still has to come in if Oliver's fighting Deathstroke at some point? 

33 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

If this storyline doesn't end in something like the white totem works ~by the power of love~ in contrast to DD's totem being powered by death, I've been watching this show FOR NOTHING.

And now I am pretty convinced that Oliver's going to get the white totem to work with this whole "I thought of you" stuff.

[bijoux]

33 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

O/F are going back to an underground casino. It's like the good old days. Hehe. So that explains the fancy outfits. 

Will they be going through all their greatest hits? Swingingg on wines, jumping over railings, capers? *crosses fingers*

19 minutes ago, way2interested said:

So are they possibly not going to Lian Yu and Arrow's just reusing sets again? But I guess magic vision still has to come in if Oliver's fighting Deathstroke at some point? 

And now I am pretty convinced that Oliver's going to get the white totem to work with this whole "I thought of you" stuff.

I think it will be "LianYu" like it was "Nanda Parbat" when he and Laurel got Sara's soul back.

Okay, they have publicaly broken up. What will the people at the casino think with them apparently on a date there? I know it's an underground place, but Thea's a vigilante and still up to date on the local gossip. No reasson some lower level thug can't be interested in the city's prominent couples.

[Tallis]

1 minute ago, bijoux said:

Okay, they have publicaly broken up. What will the people at the casino think with them apparently on a date there? I know it's an underground place, but Thea's a vigilante and still up to date on the local gossip. No reasson some lower level thug can't be interested in the city's prominent couples.

The lady with the hair says the casino's in Hub City though so quite possibly Olicity isn't a thing there. We don't know how far/if their fame stretches outside of Star(ling) City.

[calliope1975]

4 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Okay, they have publicaly broken up. What will the people at the casino think with them apparently on a date there? I know it's an underground place, but Thea's a vigilante and still up to date on the local gossip. No reasson some lower level thug can't be interested in the city's prominent couples.

You know one thug's going to snap a pic and text it to all his buddies who were really rooting (secretly) for that high society couple to make it. Bonus points if he asks for a selfie. ;D

[dtissagirl]

5 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Okay, they have publicaly broken up. What will the people at the casino think with them apparently on a date there? I know it's an underground place, but Thea's a vigilante and still up to date on the local gossip. No reasson some lower level thug can't be interested in the city's prominent couples.

The comic preview says the casino is in Hub City, so maybe that explains it? 

[bijoux]

Okay, I completely missed the part about Hub City.

Thanks.

1 minute ago, calliope1975 said:

You know one thug's going to snap a pic and text it to all his buddies who were really rooting (secretly) for that high society couple to make it. Bonus points if he asks for a selfie. ;D

I was thinking more along the lines of this.

[Morrigan2575]

Total minority here but i hate that line from the S1 Casino episode.  It was cringe worthy and didn't feel the least bit organic. 

[Starfish35]

6 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Total minority here but i hate that line from the S1 Casino episode.  It was cringe worthy and didn't feel the least bit organic. 

Same here.  It made me cringe so hard.  

[Guest]

I'd take cringey innuendos over lines where Felicity brings up Oliver's illegitimate kid. Thankfully that line didn't come out as harsh as I was anticipating but still. I know what I'd prefer, even if I do agree that line in s1 was cringe!

[bijoux]

I'm not posting this in Spoilers Only because I'm not completely sure it's a line from the next episode, but I'm fairly sure it is.

[Starfish35]

That wasn't a great line either (who talks about "illegitimate" children these days?) but it didn't give me the acute second-hand embarrassment the other does. 

[lemotomato]

I think the line was really awkward at the time, but not as much if it were brought up now. I just kind of want them to mention that the underground casino op was their first field mission together

[Morrigan2575]

Oddly enough, as much as I cringed at the idea of Felicity making that Illegitimate child comment,  it actually worked for me in the scene/episode

[wonderwall]

47 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Oddly enough, as much as I cringed at the idea of Felicity making that Illegitimate child comment,  it actually worked for me in the scene/episode

I agree. If anyone has the right to make light of the situation it's Felicity. 

It automatically reminded me of Oliver's line: "You don't have to be funny for me". Felicity making light of the situation is her still showing that she's still hurt and that she hasn't forgotten what has transpired between her and Oliver. It was very in character for her and was a great line. 

Edited May 2, 2016 by wonderwall

[Midnight Lullaby]

That line worked for me too because of Emily's delivery. She didn't say it in a harsh, flippant way but in a bittersweet tone and it was in the middle of a thoughtful speech. 

I cringed at the casino line too instead, while the one in the elevator shaft for example makes me laugh every time.

[apinknightmare]

I was worried about the line, but it worked as much as a reference to an 'illegitimate' child can IMO. Using that word to refer to him kind of automatically seems mean-spirited. I think it would've been better if she'd called him a 'secret child' instead, especially since she was talking to Diggle, who wasn't married when his own kid was born. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

I'm probably not that bothered by the use of the term because that's the way a child born out of marriage is called in family law and I'm used to read it and listen to it in lectures, obviously not in a mean-spirited way.

[Starfish35]

^^^This.

[Velocity23]

Quote

Now TVLine has learned that Arrow is also adding the series regular role of “James,” an “irrepressibly charming” contemporary of Oliver’s who is described as “a man on a mission” — out as he is to avenge a tragic, violent loss from his own, years-ago past.

The casting call seeks an actor of any ethnicity, in his late-20s to 30s and who comes across as a physical threat. The character is said to “just as easily shake your hand as your best friend or break your neck as your worst enemy — and you never know which one is coming. Either way, he’s more than capable of having a good time as he does it.”

http://tvline.com/2016/05/02/arrow-season-5-olivers-new-adversary-series-regular/

[wonderwall]

I think it depends on how you view it... I've always used that term without meaning it to sound mean spirited. It's the way I learned it... I mean in hindi it sounds a lot better, loosely translated it would mean "children without marriage"... But in english it doesn't really work. There isn't a succinct way to put it that sounds nicer... "Bastard child" is another term that comes to mind but that's even worse lol. "Child out of wedlock" doesn't sound great either...

[Belinea]

Is the casting more for the flashbacks or present day?