Spoiler Discussion Thread

[nksarmi]

You know what? They should ship Thea off to Legends. I don't know why I didn't consider it before now, but they totally should. I ship her with Roy, but if Stein and Jax stick around next season - she could flirt with Jax. Legends doesn't have an archer and she happens to be a good swordsperson as well. Then if I must see her interact with Malcolm - it can at least be a different version of him (like from the future or the past). Bonus points if I get to see a future version of Roy meet up with her.

Plus Legends would make her a real character instead of just a damsel. And I bet the actress could play well off characters like Snart and Mick. It also provides us the added benefit of getting her off Arrow without it being a painful experience for anyone. Like Oliver sees her as having a mission of her own and sends her off proud of her. Then maybe we can get some decent fight scenes back on Arrow and Thea's character can be about more than Malcolm and/or Oliver.

[Sakura12]

I'd be fine with Thea joining Legends. She could get some more training from Sara. 

[nksarmi]

1 minute ago, Sakura12 said:

I'd be fine with Thea joining Legends. She could get some more training from Sara. 

And maybe they'd be allowed to talk about what Malcolm did to both of them over on Legends.  Seriously - how does an ensemble show have more character beats than Arrow?

[Sakura12]

Thea could replace Kendra. She'd be more useful than her. I also think Thea and Sara have some kind familiarity of each other from the scene when Thea was excited to see Sara and brought her to meet her friends. Maybe Thea was one of the kids Sara babysat for? 

Edited April 30, 2016 by Sakura12

[looptab]

Sometimes I feel like I am alone in this, but I want Thea to stay right where she is. Sorry guys, you can't take her!

[bijoux]

I don't think I'd weep if she left for a while, but I do think she's needed as Oliver's one remaining family member and the show needs to build on their relationship. She does need to be utlized better, I don't think anyone would object to that.

[BkWurm1]

There's an odd impression in some circles that the show is gunning for Thea now that Laurel has been crossed off the list.  I'd enjoy Thea on LoT, but I'd hate to feed the paranoia.

[Genki]

I enjoy Thea, and would like her to stay on Arrow. I would like her out form Malcolm's shadow, and would like to see more Felicity/Thea Scenes.

I think/hope Oliver has learnt his lesson about "protecting" her, and I'm intrigued to find out if she is compromised because of Alex or Anarchy. (I hope it's not Malcolm)

[tangerine95]

I don't know that I'd want her to leave the show. I mean I wouldn't have a huge problem with that but I like Thea on Arrow, I just don't like some of the ways she was used and it all comes down to Malcolm imo.And I like Oliver having family on the show and Thea is the last family he has left since I don't acknowledge the kid's existence now that I'm not forced to.I would prefer Curtis be the one to leave for LoT at some point instead of being a permanent mask on team arrow once he suits up.Preferably for me he could replace Ray.

She would probably be fun on LoT though, I mean I would seriously take anyone over Kendra.Can't believe MG saddled another show of his with another Laurel lol.

Edited April 30, 2016 by tangerine95

[looptab]

I am quite hopeful that she can be utilized better, now that the dead weight is gone.

Now watch me being proven wrong.

[Genki]

1 minute ago, looptab said:

I am quite hopeful that she can be utilized better, now that the dead weight is gone.

Now watch me being proven wrong.

I feel the same way so I really hope you're NOT proven wrong.

[BkWurm1]

To fix Thea all they really need is to let her finish an arc without handing off the finish to Oliver or Malcolm.  To stop sidelining her from her own stories.

[Sunshine]

I like Thea.  I am fine with her on Arrow but she needs to be more than a plot device.  I need there to be more to her story than "rescue me." In S1 it was drugs. In S2 it was Slade. In S3 it was Ra's.  S4 was bloodlust.  All storylines were hijacked by either Oliver, Malcolm or both.  That said, if one of the characters has to be a DID I would rather it be Thea instead of Felicity.

I don't need a villain of the week but I hope S5 brings back some focus on fighting crime and helping "other" people.  The Iron Heights prison break should have released a lot of criminals.

Random thought on finale: WM said in the TV Guide interview that Olicity's story won't be wrapped in a bow. Makes me wonder if they reconcile but something happens to Felicity.  This allows Curtis (who I assume is losing his husband in the SC calamity) to become fully integrated on the team as they search for her over hiatus. I wonder if he is going to be used primarily as another fighter (he is a mask) or for his tech genius.  I know his skills differ from Felicity's but I am really curious as to how they are going to utilize them both.  I have perhaps an irrational fear (brought on by Beacon of Hope) that she will be on Palmer Island and interacting with Curtis & Oliver (as LI) and no one else really in S5 - similar to S4.  I fell in love with the show because of the O/D/F with a side of Q interactions more so than the storytelling.  

[Midnight Lullaby]

They need some new ideas for Thea. I think a more interesting route for her would have been going dark in season 3 and Oliver and the team fighting to get her back, but they don't want to close the plot with MM and after two seasons of being dragged it became too boring. Thea got a lot of focus in the early part of the season but nothing lead somewhere interesting and from the spoilers the only thing they are going to focus on, AGAIN, is if she is MM's daughter or not. I'm disappointed.

I think now that the dead weight is gone there's the chance for something good in terms of interactions with the other characters but they need to find something substantial for her to do that doesn't end up being once again about MM.

[BkWurm1]

How about if all of them get jobs at Palmer Tech?

[Sunshine]

Everyone at Palmer Tech would work for me.  It's not like everybody and his brother doesn't know the entrance to the super secret bunker they built.  One of the things I liked about S2A was that they were protecting the city while disguising themselves from the public as business people which led to some fun scenes for me.  Unfortunately I don't think the EPs cared much about secret identities scenes.   

[SmallScreenDiva]

Responding in Hopes thread

[manbearpig]

If Thea leaves we would end up with only one female cast member on the show. They need to write better for Thea (and everyone else, to be honest), but I think there's a lot of potential there for some good storylines, and IMO Holland is one of the more consistent actors on the show.

[looptab]

9 minutes ago, manbearpig said:

If Thea leaves we would end up with only one female cast member on the show. They need to write better for Thea (and everyone else, to be honest), but I think there's a lot of potential there for some good storylines, and IMO Holland is one of the more consistent actors on the show.

Agreed. And yes, sadly - and frustratingly - all her stories end up with nothing or being about someone else (I remember thinking her bloodlust would be the key to defeating DD, how innocent I was), but I waited 4 seasons for scenes with her and other cast members, I'm not going to wish her gone now that I have an actual chance of getting them.

To keep it on spoilers, someone upthread mentioned that she might be in danger because of Anarchy, but the "old foe" thing comes up in 420, so will this be a multi-episode thing?

Edited April 30, 2016 by looptab

[dtissagirl]

I think lawyers and agents would try to kill everyone involved in trying to move Willa Holland to a different show. She's 4th billed as regular on Arrow, which is a 23 episode per season show, with 4 years worth of raises and bonuses and residuals inflating her salary. How do you move her to a 16 episode per season show, on its second season [less bonuses, lower residuals], without that being 1. a drastic salary reduction and 2. a demotion in billing?

Edited April 30, 2016 by dtissagirl

[nksarmi]

1 hour ago, bijoux said:

I don't think I'd weep if she left for a while, but I do think she's needed as Oliver's one remaining family member and the show needs to build on their relationship. She does need to be utlized better, I don't think anyone would object to that.

The nice thing about Legends is that they could send Thea off there for a season and still have her come back and interact with Oliver having grown in skill and really knowing herself at that point. I don't wish Thea gone - my most sincere hope for a happy ending is that we see someday that Thea and Roy are happily married teaching their two children archery.  It might be lame - but I still want it.

I was only following the flow of people saying they are "over" Thea.  I really like her - I just don't think Arrow uses her well.  And I would love to see her character develop with Sara instead of Oliver/Malcolm. I think it should have been Thea and Laurel who did the vision quest with Constantine to save Sara's soul. They were both there when Sara was resurrected and they were intimately connected to her death - Thea firing the weapon and Laurel being there when she died. I also think the show should have allowed Sara and Thea to have a real conversion about what happened between them. Finally, I would have liked to see Thea actually take a stand consistent to her character and tell Oliver to tell Felicity about his kid.

But on Arrow, Thea is just a plot device to move Oliver and Malcolm's stories. Since it's Oliver's show - she will probably never be anything more. I just think it would be nice for her to be something more on Legends for awhile.

[BkWurm1]

Maybe a guest stint? 

[dtissagirl]

I'd love if Thea showed up on both LoT and Flash, but the idea of legit moving the actress to a different show feels unrealistic/naive because of how contracts work in Hollywood. There's a reason why every regular on LoT was never billed as regular on the other shows.

[nksarmi]

5 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I think lawyers and agents would try to kill everyone involved in trying to move Willa Holland to a different show. She's 4th billed as regular on Arrow, which is a 23 episode per season show, with 4 years worth of raises and bonuses and residuals inflating her salary. How do you move her to a 16 episode per season show, on its second season [less bonuses, less residuals], without that being 1. a drastic salary reduction and 2. a demotion in billing?

Yea I have NO clue how that works. But if we were only talking about one season - or half a season - maybe they could find a way to structure her contract appropriately? It seems like contract negotiations have to be coming up for Arrow soon anyway.

Besides - I have to say with Arrow's tendency to kill people off every. single. year - Willa would have to wonder if Thea's days are numbered anyway - wouldn't she? I mean, how many members of the regular cast do we think will make it to the final season anyway? It might be better to go play on Legends for a season or two and come back for Arrow's final year than be next on the chopping block for Oliver's pain in season five.

[bijoux]

I might be naive, but I think the team as it is now will live to see the show's final season. They killed one of their own to remember them of the stakes, but I think they're done with that for a while.

[BkWurm1]

1 minute ago, bijoux said:

I might be naive, but I think the team as it is now will live to see the show's final season. They killed one of their own to remember them of the stakes, but I think they're done with that for a while.

Please let it be so!!!

[Mrs. de Winter]

I agree Thea has been used to move Malcom/Oliver's stories - but I also feel like she has also been used to move Laurel's story.  Hopefully the removal of that burden will free up some space for her to have her own story.  

I am also not going to get too caught up in the saving of Thea yet given how often the write-up of the episodes are lacking. 

[nksarmi]

7 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I might be naive, but I think the team as it is now will live to see the show's final season. They killed one of their own to remember them of the stakes, but I think they're done with that for a while.

One can hope, but I don't trust the creative team at all. I mean, I'm shocked they didn't kill anyone in the finale of Supergirl and they admit that they came this close. But yea, Flash killed Eddie in season one and is predicted to kill someone else in season this season finale. Arrow has offed Tommy, Moira, Sara, and now Laurel. I'm sure Quentin will take a bullet at some point before it's all said and done. I'm not saying they are planning on killing Thea - but when they are midway through season five and looking for that next "gotcha" moment - I wouldn't rule it out. I think the only one who is safe until the end is Felicity and even she could die if the show decided to go for a grimdark ending instead of a happy one.

Edited April 30, 2016 by nksarmi

[looptab]

7 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I might be naive, but I think the team as it is now will live to see the show's final season. They killed one of their own to remember them of the stakes, but I think they're done with that for a while.

I think if someone's going to die, it's going to be in one of the final episodes of the final season.

[way2interested]

Just now, Mrs. de Winter said:

I am also not going to get too caught up in the saving of Thea yet given how often the write-up of the episodes are lacking. 

Same given that literally part of it says "following the events of the previous episode," which practically screams "we can barely write this summary without spoiling anything." I am still a bit weary for Thea's sake, but then again half of 411 was about Felicity having a plot to herself and the summary was pretending that she was dead and that the episode would be about Oliver moving on.

[tangerine95]

Yeah I also think we won't see another big team arrow death.I think Digg, Felicity and Thea will all live to the end of the show unless bts stuff like someone wanting to leave happens.They showed them to be the most important people in Oliver's life, the people he can't be without so I think they'll be safe from being killed off. And imo that will be the permanent team arrow with people occasionally coming and going.

[dtissagirl]

11 minutes ago, nksarmi said:

Yea I have NO clue how that works. But if we were only talking about one season - or half a season - maybe they could find a way to structure her contract appropriately? It seems like contract negotiations have to be coming up for Arrow soon anyway.

It's more than contracts and money. Billing comes with perks*. Either Willa would have to negotiate a higher billing on LoT [higher than her current 4th], which might be impossible if the LoT actors' contracts have a fixed billing structure, OR she's have to accept a lower billing and the loss of all the perks that come with it.

* The higher you're billed, the higher you are in priority for the whole production. It's not just about the name in the credits. Your call time is better than those billed lower than you. You get driver priority, makeup time priority, stunt rehearsal priority before those billed lower than you. And that sounds super silly, but it's very very VERY important for the Hollywood machine to work.

[BkWurm1]

13 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

It's more than contracts and money. Billing comes with perks*. Either Willa would have to negotiate a higher billing on LoT [higher than her current 4th], which might be impossible if the LoT actors' contracts have a fixed billing structure, OR she's have to accept a lower billing and the loss of all the perks that come with it.

* The higher you're billed, the higher you are in priority for the whole production. It's not just about the name in the credits. Your call time is better than those billed lower than you. You get driver priority, makeup time priority, stunt rehearsal priority before those billed lower than you. And that sounds super silly, but it's very very VERY important for the Hollywood machine to work.

I'm not doubting you, but it does sound silly since shouldn't the priority be whatever is the priority in that week's story being told?? 

Also, I've always assumed since EBR came last she technically had lowest billing but I never got the impression she was lowest man on totem pole. 

Edited April 30, 2016 by BkWurm1

[looptab]

Answering in BTS thread.

[Starfish35]

2 hours ago, manbearpig said:

If Thea leaves we would end up with only one female cast member on the show. They need to write better for Thea (and everyone else, to be honest), but I think there's a lot of potential there for some good storylines, and IMO Holland is one of the more consistent actors on the show.

3 hours ago, looptab said:

I am quite hopeful that she can be utilized better, now that the dead weight is gone.

Now watch me being proven wrong.

 

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

To fix Thea all they really need is to let her finish an arc without handing off the finish to Oliver or Malcolm.  To stop sidelining her from her own stories.

The multi-quote feature is not working for me. :(  

But yes, I agree with all these points.  Thea was tied to Laurel during the first half of the season, which really didn't do her any favors, and every time they start an intriguing storyline for her, it gets eventually turned into a storyline for Oliver and/or Malcolm.   And getting rid of her leaves Felicity as the only female regular character on the show, and as much as I like Felicity, I am not ok with that.  

[dtissagirl]

I think the best thing that could happen to Thea is the show getting rid of Malcolm. He makes her narrative beats repetitive more than anything.

[Starfish35]

1 minute ago, dtissagirl said:

I think the best thing that could happen to Thea is the show getting rid of Malcolm. He makes her narrative beats repetitive more than anything.

Agreed.  I'm still hopeful he'll get killed off this year.

[Morrigan2575]

58 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I think the best thing that could happen to Thea is the show getting rid of Malcolm. He makes her narrative beats repetitive more than anything.

I am 100% behind this idea. Let's get rid of Malcolm! 

In all seriousness, I agree that tying Thea to Merlyn's story weakens Thea as a character.  In fact her whole purpose is to serve Malcolm's character rather than Merlyn serving Thea's story.  I understand the BTS reason why (Barrowman is a bigger name and one they actively pursued for the show) doesn't mean I have to like it.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[tv echo]

When the EPs said last fall that they didn't know who was in the grave yet, maybe they were deciding, not between Quentin and Laurel, but between Thea and Laurel (esp. considering WM's recent comments specifically explaining why they didn't kill Thea)  So if they had gone with killing off Thea, then the 422 storyline could've been about rescuing Laurel instead.  So maybe the intent of that storyline is not about who is being rescued, but about Oliver's actions in response.  The rescuee just happens to be Thea by process of elimination.

Since this show is mainly about Oliver's growth, maybe we'll see him react differently this season to Thea being in danger than he did last season.  

Edited April 30, 2016 by tv echo

[AyChihuahua]

He hasn't been any different when Thea's been in danger THIS season. Last season is not the last time we saw him dropping everything to SAVE THEA. How many more times do I have to be hit over the head with all this? Her storylines alternate bw being in danger so Oliver can react by dropping absolutely everything else and deciding whether to cut Malcolm off YET AGAIN. That's it. I get that she's otherwise fine, I don't even disagree, but my unbelievable boredom with those two repeated beats is making me hate her.

So, get rid of Malcolm and let her start being a lot better at her job, and maybe give her a meaningful love life and/or an outside job. I liked her as a competent club owner. I think I'm basically a big fan of competence, and having her constantly in danger and waffling about whether to let this unbelievably evil person be her "dad" just bc some of his sperm found its way into Moira makes me sick. It also makes her look stupid, bc every single time she's let him back in he's just betrayed her, and not in small ways, either, but like putting her in the LOA's sights, putting her nephew in mortal danger, or being perfectly willing to let her die rather than give up being RAG. 

[nksarmi]

4 hours ago, tangerine95 said:

Yeah I also think we won't see another big team arrow death.I think Digg, Felicity and Thea will all live to the end of the show unless bts stuff like someone wanting to leave happens.They showed them to be the most important people in Oliver's life, the people he can't be without so I think they'll be safe from being killed off. And imo that will be the permanent team arrow with people occasionally coming and going.

I think this is being very optimistic. I'm not saying it wouldn't make me happy. But this show has killed a major character every year it's been on. So the only way I think this could be true is if they call it quits at season five. If they go on to season six or seven, they will either kill members of the remaining cast or they will introduce characters just to kill them off.

I'm almost positive Curtis' husband will be toast at some point, but he's kind of like Mateo - they will need to kill someone bigger than that next season. I think it will probably be Quentin - or a worst possible scenario being Donna.

Once we are in season six, I strong suspect Thea or Diggle will be up for grabs. The only other choice is to bring someone in and try to make them matter enough that they can kill them. Someone like Baby Canary becoming Starling. I have no real desire to see that. But I don't believe for a minute this show will keep going without a major death each season.

I don't necessarily think the show will make it to season seven, but if it does - anyone could die at that point - even Oliver (despite Reverse Flash telling him he lives to be an old man - I doubt the EPs will even remember that).

[BkWurm1]

3 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Agreed.  I'm still hopeful he'll get killed off this year.

I could swear that JB was saying at his convention last week or so that he was looking forward to what was coming up for Malcolm  in season five...unless he was trolling and he's looking forward to more down time. 

17 minutes ago, nksarmi said:

I think this is being very optimistic. I'm not saying it wouldn't make me happy. But this show has killed a major character every year it's been on. So the only way I think this could be true is if they call it quits at season five. If they go on to season six or seven, they will either kill members of the remaining cast or they will introduce characters just to kill them off.

I'm almost positive Curtis' husband will be toast at some point, but he's kind of like Mateo - they will need to kill someone bigger than that next season. I think it will probably be Quentin - or a worst possible scenario being Donna.

Once we are in season six, I strong suspect Thea or Diggle will be up for grabs. The only other choice is to bring someone in and try to make them matter enough that they can kill them. Someone like Baby Canary becoming Starling. I have no real desire to see that. But I don't believe for a minute this show will keep going without a major death each season.

Well, if they stopped killing main characters, it would be game changing, so maybe if we pitched it, they'd go for it.  ;)

Edited April 30, 2016 by BkWurm1

[nksarmi]

8 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I could swear that JB was saying at his convention last week or so that he was looking forward to what was coming up for Malcolm  in season five...unless he was trolling and he's looking forward to more down time. 

Well, if they stopped killing main characters, it would be game changing, so maybe if we pitched it, they'd go for it.  ;)

If you can convince MG it would be game changing and awesome and something they've never done before! - you might get it to work for one season. :)

[BkWurm1]

One season of no dead people could mean they could slip in a new character, build 'em up and then have them around the following year to kill off so they can once again prove how high the stakes are!

[dtissagirl]

Wasn't there a recent interview with MG in which he said the surprising thing for S5 would be not to kill anyone?

[nksarmi]

1 minute ago, dtissagirl said:

Wasn't there a recent interview with MG in which he said the surprising thing for S5 would be not to kill anyone?

Actually he did say that. I wonder if there is a chance in hell he would make good on that?

[BkWurm1]

Not killing wouldn't mean bad stuff wouldn't happen.  Hello brainwashed, amnesiac clones!

[nksarmi]

Just now, BkWurm1 said:

Not killing wouldn't mean bad stuff wouldn't happen.  Hello brainwashed, amnesiac clones!

Oh crap - you are so right. We haven't done amnesia or clones on this soap yet. Sigh.

I was actually going to say that the other thing that would be amazing, surprising, and never done before would be to let Oliver and Felicity be together and be happy - but then you had to bring up amnesia. That's so coming at some for Felicity.

[tangerine95]

Idk I just feel like they know who they can't  kill off and I doubt they would mess with OTA especially.I would be really suprised if they ever kill off Diggle or Thea.Killing Felicity for real I'm sure it's not happening unless EBR wanted out someday before the show ended. And I don't think they feel like they have to kill off a major character every year and I don't think they do it for just shock value.The only death I thought was totally senseless was Sara.Killing Tommy and Moira really did move Oliver's story forward and served his development. Laurel dying was getting rid of a dead weight.So I don't think they'll kill off like Digg or Thea just because they feel the need to have a big death every season.

The people I'm worried about are like the parental figures like Lance or Donna. One of them I can see getting killed off at some point tbh but not next season though.

Edited April 30, 2016 by tangerine95

[BkWurm1]

I think of any season, season five is the one with the best chance of no big deaths since it's supposed to contrast with Oliver's worst year as he slides into darkness. 

I also have hopes that all the backlash across all shows over the killings might make it go out of style for awhile.  Crosses fingers.