Spoiler Discussion Thread

[NumberCruncher]

Maybe this is one last piledriver home how terribad O/L were together? Yeah, I've got nothing, and I don't understand what this will narratively accomplish other than irritating everyone everywhere.

Edited by mod: Fan talk.  

Edited April 14, 2016 by MuuMuuChainsmoker

[lemotomato]

Well, both look horrible. But for the life of me I cannot understand why the writers consider this to be an appealing storyline other than (and here it comes!!!) to throw shippers a bone. (Is that now pandering or does it only apply when stuff happens that some people don't want to see... Asking for a friend ;-))

[Edited by mod: Fan talk.]  Laurel's dead. It doesn't matter when they kissed or if's a dream or memory or what if because she's dead dead dead and nothing will ever come of it. 

 

(It feels kind of good to say that. I want to finish any Laurel-related discussion like that from now on.)

Edited April 14, 2016 by MuuMuuChainsmoker

[AyChihuahua]

[Edited by mod: Fan talk.] Laurel's dead. It doesn't matter when they kissed or if's a dream or memory or what if because she's dead dead dead and nothing will ever come of it. 

 

(It feels kind of good to say that. I want to finish any Laurel-related discussion like that from now on.)

 

I don't understand why they're doing a Lauriver love scene now, but whatevs.

 

Btw, if Oliver hadn't been shipwrecked, Slade maybe would have succeeded in getting off the island - he was about to get away on that cargo plane but came back to help Oliver. I think Shado would have died shortly after her father with neither Slade nor Oliver there. Ivo would have been free and clear to find and mass produce the MIrakuru, which doesn't seem like a good thing. Hong Kong would have been wiped out by the A/O virus. Crazy-Eyes Reiter would do whatever crazy stuff he has planned. AND Malcolm's plan would have succeeded.

 

So Oliver being shipwrecked sucked for him, but it's been pretty good for the world, overall.

Edited April 14, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[kismet]

I have to admit that if Dig &/or Thea peace out to resolve stuff in the last few min of the season finale, I think it would be appropriate for their journeys. So long as they are back in s5 premiere.

 

As for FS & OQ ~ I wonder if the speculation that they will either reconcile romantically or TA professionally, but not both is true.

 

I could see FS wanting to remain off the team, but wanting to reconnect with OQ after losing a close friend. Time does feel too short & fragile to not try to work out issues and be with someone if you love them. I also wonder if this is how they might repair their relationship to truly find a way to balance their professional & romantic lives. They went from co-vigilantes to full time couple & then to some hybrid version that put their relationship in the background and made OQ complacent that she would just be there because she always was. So perhaps by her staying off the team they can work on their relationship. It might be a way for OQ to learn to open up to her and share his life and decisions. If she is on the team & in the lair, then she is privy to the information - he is not required to willingly share information. But with her out of the lair, he will be forced to open up and seek her advice, it might be a good growth experience for him. I'll miss her in the lair, but if it makes F/O stronger for when she is back in the lair in s5 then I there for it.

Edited April 13, 2016 by kismet

[dtissagirl]

I'll only be sure after I watch it, but I'm half convinced this is a fuck you being sent up the ladder to the executive suits who were forcing the story.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I'll only be sure after I watch it, but I'm half convinced this is a fuck you being sent up the ladder to the executive suits who were forcing the story.

 

I'm not following. Forcing Oliver & Felicity together?

[nksarmi]

Knowing these writers, I'm going to put my money on #4.

 

Given that these are the people who forgot that Oliver learned to speak Mandarin like a native before season one - I'm going with "What is option 4" Alex!

[dtissagirl]

I'm not following. Forcing Oliver & Felicity together?

 

Nope, the executives who forced the EPs to keep KC/Laurel on, after chemistry failed in the pilot, and then for another 22 episodes of misery. So I wonder if they're burying Laurel for real + Laurel/Oliver metaphorically. It'll depend on the context of the flashback, really.

Edited April 13, 2016 by dtissagirl

[SmallScreenDiva]

Nope, the executives who forced the EPs to keep KC/Laurel on, after chemistry failed in the pilot, and then for another 22 episodes of misery. So I wonder if they're burying Laurel for real + Laurel/Oliver metaphorically. It'll depend on the context of the flashback, really.

 

Oh, OK ... got confused because the post just before that was about FS returning to team and OQ, LOL! 

[ComicFan777]

I can imagine the O/L scene as being part of Oliver reflecting on his past - the stupid mistakes that he has made in the past (O/L) and the people he had wronged in the past (Tommy). 

 

LL's death marks the end of the era of stupidity - Oliver will no longer have the case of the stupids - Oliver is letting go of the past and evolving (my hope, anyways).

[catrox14]

never mind. I can't keep timelines and hair straight.

Edited April 13, 2016 by catrox14

[Guest]

It's so weird to even have O/L flashbacks when we haven't had that since s2. It's possible it could be a pre-Gambit moment. He must've had short hair at some point.

As for Felicity, I'd rather she come back to the team. They're already suggesting she can be easily replaced, which bugs me, so I do want her back. I don't know if Olicity will get back together this season. I'd like them to, as long as they deal with their shit, but I also won't be annoyed if they don't.

[tangerine95]

I really think Felicity is coming back to the team in 4.19 because of Laurel dying.I don't see her and Oliver getting back together but her staying off the team.First because the reason she left is that it hurt too much to be around Oliver and if they never broke up she would have probably done her thing with PT and stayed on the team and second because they haven't set up the Olicity reunion at all yet.I feel like we'll actually see Oliver do what Felicity needed him to and lean on her, open up or be put in a situation where he could lie for whatever noble reason he thinks he has but will chose not to or something like that.To show us that I think they need to spend time together and right now the team is the only option.I don't see the season ending with them broken up or Felicity off the team either.They set up the question of can they be heroes and a couple and balance their lives and right now they are doubting it so I think by the end we'll get a positive answer to that question and it won't be dragged out into next season.

I honestly don't get the point of L/O flashbacks because it's literally the worst way to do a funeral episode for Laurel by reminding us of the toxic relationship with no chemistry that is basically a huge part of the reason she failed and ultimately got killed off.Would have made more sense to focus her flashbacks on Sara or Quentin. But I also doubt the flashbacks will paint them in a very positive light and I think they'll probably somehow lead to showing us how in love Oliver is with Felicity now or something.I kinda think that if he never got on the gambit scenario might be what's happening because I don't see how they can fit it before the island or after without totally ignoring previous seasons.

Edited April 13, 2016 by tangerine95

[AyChihuahua]

Yeah, I think WM/Guggie are trying to be mysterious. I absolutely think she's coming back to the team, probably in 19, and not coming back to Oliver for awhile yet. Coming back to Oliver and not the team would be really surprising and kind of bizarre, and while the writers are often bizarre, they are almost never surprising.

[Morrigan2575]

We've seen pictures of EBR filming with PB and the Team Arrow van for 420 or 421. There's also the BTS photo Glen Winter posted of EBR/PB in the Arrow lair with Felicity sitting at her computers from 422.

That alone suggests that Felicity is back on the team, even if it's just provsionally.

[BkWurm1]

I think the most likely scenario with the kiss was the first one laid out, that happens after Tommy's funeral.  I'm pretty sure he in the comic tie in did say goodbye to her before he left so why not toss in a goodbye kiss as well?  The comics are canon until the show wants to contradict them.  The idea of a kiss doesn't bother me.  Does it look like they are doing more than just a kiss (what I saw didn't to me)  Just a goodbye is ok.  It would be a comfort slash final goodbye to what they had (or what Laurel thought they had) before the Gambit. 

 

 

 

It's so weird to even have O/L flashbacks when we haven't had that since s2. It's possible it could be a pre-Gambit moment. He must've had short hair at some point.

As for Felicity, I'd rather she come back to the team. They're already suggesting she can be easily replaced, which bugs me, so I do want her back. I don't know if Olicity will get back together this season. I'd like them to, as long as they deal with their shit, but I also won't be annoyed if they don't.

The one reason why I wonder if they do just lickity-split get back together is because the show runners are not subtle in bringing a new character up as a hero.  They had to fake Roy's death before they let Thea join the team.  They had to "kill" Oliver before they added Laurel.  I think they still plan on doing something to get Felicity out of the way for a good long time so that they need Curtis.  It would make all kinds of sense to consider his bee episode his tryout and then save him for full time when something happens so that Felicity can't be there to help (like being coerced by her semi-evil dad) but again, this show doesn't do subtle. 

 

WM and MG have now said that either she and Oliver get back together or she rejoins the team.  We don't get both right now.  It's odd that they even spelled it out like that. 

 

 It makes sooo much more sense to the characters and to where they are with May coming up for Felicity to rejoin the team and keep the personal out of it.  Oliver hasn't had any time to show his growth yet.  So yeah, it makes all kinds of sense that she rejoins the team but she and Oliver remain apart romantically.  But this is Arrow and the cagey way the producers brought up the idea (complete with reminding everyone that she wants to find a different way to help)   combined with how every other time they've brought someone new to the team (since season three) they kick someone off the team, makes me 60/40 that she and Oliver do get back together.  

 

Which unless they have a fantastic conversation is going to bug me since the problems they had seemed like a big freaking deal to me.    Of course when I say bug me all I mean is I will complain about it in the episode thread before I drool over the pretty new GIFs.

We've seen pictures of EBR filming with PB and the Team Arrow van for 420 or 421. There's also the BTS photo Glen Winter posted of EBR/PB in the Arrow lair with Felicity sitting at her computers from 422.

That alone suggests that Felicity is back on the team, even if it's just provsionally.

This makes me drop down to 51/49 just barely leaning toward Olicity but not rejoining the team.  Technically just because she might not rejoin the team wouldn't mean that she wouldn't end up in the lair or helping them out occasionally. 

[BkWurm1]

I was looking at the episodes that they are playing for the hiatus since sometimes they have significance, like they want to remind the audience of information.

 

This week is Code of Silence where Felicity tells Donna that sometimes you have to offer a little trust.  Next week is Taken aka DD gets taken down and Felicity takes a walk. 

 

Maybe I'm overthinking it (probably) and all they are trying to remind the audience is that Lance was worried about DD coming after him and how DD was finally taken down.  But if you look at it from a Olicity standpoint, it sends mixed messages but none about Felicity staying on the team.  Yeah, I'm overthinking this. 

[statsgirl]

If the choice is between Felicity and Oliver reconciling and Felicity returning to the team, I take the latter.  She left because she had found a way to make a difference without the violence but then DD killed Laurel.  The anger in her voice in the limo scene suggests to me that she's going to do whatever it takes to kill "him".   

 

It also puts Felicity back in Oliver's orbit again which gives him the opportunity to show her that he's changed in time for a reconciliation in the season finale.

[bijoux]

Does anyone know which episode was being filmed when they made the SOTY video? They did it in the lair.

ETA: it was posted on March 28, a day before wrapping filming for 421.

Edited April 14, 2016 by bijoux

[catrox14]

Do you guys think the show would just take the tack that Oliver won't have a love interest at all other than sleep around?

[Password]

Agh jeez Oliver and Laurel kissing after Tommy died? The writers either think what they did was OK or are trying to drill home how bad Oliver and Laurel are together (my main reason for hating even the thought of them together).

Show I'm on shaky ground as it is don't give me more reasons to dislike Oliver.

[Password]

Do you guys think the show would just take the tack that Oliver won't have a love interest at all other than sleep around?

Nope.

[Thundercatmary]

So I've been thinking something about Hive and those corn crops we've seen. Does anyone remember the first x-files movie? Well a group (think it was the consortium?) was using bees to spread and infect people with a virus. I can't remember the details but it was through some sort of polinization process.

Anyways I was thinking maybe they plan to use the corn crops and bees to release a virus in the city, would tie in nicely with the name hive hehe. Just an idea that I've had for awhile. :)

Edited April 14, 2016 by Thundercatmary

[bijoux]

It's a cool idea. I don't know if they would do it on the heels of Brie's bees, but it's certainly a better use of them IMO.

 

With both Noah and Cooper coming back, I expect that Felicity will face them both down. Which could be fun if they chose to play it that way. Like, Cooper totally latched on to Noah in Iron Heights because he's the Calculator's biggest fan, and Noah can't stand the annoying little shit. Maybe he and Felicity even roll their eyes at how pedestrian Cooper's coding is. And after that touching moment Felicity tells him to cut the crap or she'll send him off to the Lian Yu prison. Who's there, still just Slade and Captain Boomerang?

[BkWurm1]

send him off to the Lian Yu prison. Who's there, still just Slade and Captain Boomerang?

 

Why are only Aussies sent to prison on Lian Yu?

Do you guys think the show would just take the tack that Oliver won't have a love interest at all other than sleep around?

 

 I'm hoping he doesn't sleep around or have a love interest.  Won't hold my breath but as a fan, I am hoping my wishes get pandered to.  ;)

[looptab]

Do you guys think the show would just take the tack that Oliver won't have a love interest at all other than sleep around?

When?

[Thundercatmary]

Do you guys think the show would just take the tack that Oliver won't have a love interest at all other than sleep around?

I'm sure in the FB's he'll continue to have relationships to varying degrees, some people like to see that playboy Oliver persona, though I'm not one of them.

Current day though I think he'll be more focused on repairing things with Felicity and dealing with whatever shitstorm hits the city in the run up to the finale. Heck there may not even be much time to see any progress with F/O this season let alone some random.

[BkWurm1]

I'm sure in the FB's he'll continue to have relationships to varying degrees, some people like to see that playboy Oliver persona, though I'm not one of them.

Current day though I think he'll be more focused on repairing things with Felicity and dealing with whatever shitstorm hits the city in the run up to the finale. Heck there may not even be much time to see any progress with F/O this season let alone some random.

I agree with you.  The rest of the season seem safe that he's not going to have any kind of encounters (and I don't care that much about what happens in the flashbacks when it comes to romance).  If they are not together by the end of the season though, next season they could set him up with some love interest, nothing super serious, but even that feels wrong to me.  Season three says in or out of a relationship with Felicity he wouldn't be interested in someone else but who knows what plot driven point the writers might decide to go. 

 

They haven't yet checked off the trope where one half of the couple discovers they do want to get back together just as the other half gives up hope and takes a consolation prize thus prompting the first person to shut up and hide their feelings.  Sigh.  This is why I don't want them broken up over the hiatus, not even for what might happen, just for the places my mind takes me. 

Edited April 14, 2016 by BkWurm1

[bijoux]

What brought this on? I don't really get how we started disčuussing no love interest vs. multiple ones.

[GirlvsTV]

Tbh, knowing that watching the next ep means I will likely have to endure a bunch of LL propping and witness .05 secs of Oliver/LL smooshing faces makes me want to give it a pass all together. With the exception of Papa Smoak returning, I'm not really seeing anything that has me excited or interested in the rest of season.

Edited April 14, 2016 by GirlvsTV

[apinknightmare]

Tbh, knowing that watching the next ep means I will likely have to endure a bunch of LL propping and witness .05 secs of Oliver/LL smooshing faces makes me want to give it a pass all together.

Let's hope it's just .05 seconds.

O/L are no for me, but I am pretty curious about when that kiss happened, and basically just want to tune in to see how just how much of a steaming pile of garbage they make those two with regards to Tommy. Again.

I'll hold out hope that it was pre death until the show beats it out of me. And it probably will.

[looptab]

I'll hold out hope that it was pre death until the show beats it out of me. And it probably will.

Why are you doing this to yourself? :p

[Guest]

I'm the same. I'm not remotely looking forward to 419 because it's about Laurel and it has O/L flashbacks which I find unwatchable tbh, but at the same time I want to know why we're seeing O/L suck face at all, and how Quentin reacts and Diggle, too. He looks like a loose cannon right now. So I'm gonna watch because I want to see the aftermath but also I don't? LOL.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Guest

[looptab]

Why insert so much comedy potential in a supposedly sad episode, I wonder :)

[dtissagirl]

I was re-reading Wendy's interview on TV Line, and I think the choice of Felicity either coming back to the team or making up with Oliver only pertains to episode 419. And I don't even think this is a "choice" Felicity will make in text, but more like this was WM teasing that Laurel's death will make Felicity go back in one of her two big decisions, dun dun dun, which one is it.

 

...It's coming back to the team.

 

But I'm still convinced they'll put O/F back together by the end of the season, because the WB really really likes selling DVD boxsets, and those sell better when 'ship happens.

[Thundercatmary]

TBH I feel like Oliver and Felicity work better together with some issues coming up rather than splitting them up with something contrived. I can see Felicity eventually agreeing to give things a try with Oliver again but not yet getting engaged again, basically reset and we start over again at dating lol

[dtissagirl]

S1 is the only season they didn't end with O/F having a moment of adorableness [for obvious reasons], but both the S2 and S3 finales ended with them in a great place. They went out of their way in both seasons to make the last 4 or so episodes revolve around O/F, even. I tend to think they'll do it again after the funeral is dealt with. These guys like their patterns, and the WB likes money.

 

The only thing I'm not sure about is whether the togetherness ends the season, or if O/F gets a great moment of adorableness, and then dun dun dun cliffhanger.

[jay741982]

Oliver and Felicity get back together(hopefully) have a hot love scene then the morning after they get attacked with Felicity getting Snatched as Season ends with Oliver screaming "Felicciitty!!"

[dtissagirl]

Season ends with Oliver screaming "Felicciitty!!"

 

The season ends with the cavernous space thingy from MG's script picture.

[jay741982]

The season ends with the cavernous space thingy from MG's script picture.

LOL yeah I remember that! Just being silly. Maybe it's what left of the city and it looks like Felicity is gone?

Edited April 14, 2016 by jay741982

[nksarmi]

The season ends with the cavernous space thingy from MG's script picture.

 

In flashbacks - I hope.

[dtissagirl]

I think it can maybe be in present time and not be a bad thing -- if the corn palace is what blows up into a cavernous space.

[tarotx]

With that words "cavernous space", I just keep imaging the Armageddon virus released onto Star and our beloved city is in full Quarantine. Then after Olicity make up sex, Oliver wakes up alone to find that Argus has pulled the trigger and bombed the city into Collapse. We'll learn next season that Star has had a airtight bubble place over it. And Next season Arrow will be a half apocalypse - half Zombie show more so than a Superhero show :p

[bijoux]

I'm really attached to the idea someone floated about the city being cut off from the rest of the world and the team being physically split because of it. I have zero want or need for the season to end with Felicty or anyone else getting kidnapped. The first scenario gives the team the chance to work for a common goal from different angles, it would give us happy reunions at the start of next season and the comics could have good storylines in those five months. I'm not really sure how exactly I'd want the split to go down. I'd definitely vote for Oliver remaining in the city and working as the mayor and/or GA to restore things back to normalcy. Maybe I'd have Dig there with him, because I imagine Lyla would get Sara out of Dodge when things turned really bad, and would therefore be working her way back towards Dig.

[looptab]

I like that theory too. but I want to wait until we have more elements before I get attached to it, rather than be disappointed if it doesn't happen. :)

[Morrigan2575]

The only problem I have with that idea is the 5 month time jump between S4 finale and S5 premiere.  I think that would be a great idea for a a season premiere/season long story arc (although it would screw up the Annual Flarrow Crossover) but having that time jump feels like we'd miss a lot of the story.

[bijoux]

I think a season of it would be too much for me to take.

[Morrigan2575]

That could be true as well

[tarotx]

The city under seige and the team cut off could work if the city is only cut off until the Flarrow crossover? That's only 8 episodes. And It can all take place without a time jump. I know there would have to perhaps Flash back on Flash or just hand wave it but I think it would work well for Arrow 5a. And then have the time jump.  It would be a rebuilding and the power of the mobs for Arrow 5b. It could work well to make Arrow gritty. 

[Morrigan2575]

The city under seige and the team cut off could work if the city is only cut off until the Flarrow crossover? That's only 8 episodes. And It can all take place without a time jump. I know there would have to perhaps Flash back on Flash or just hand wave it but I think it would work well for Arrow 5a. And then have the time jump.  It would be a rebuilding and the power of the mobs for Arrow 5b. It could work well to make Arrow gritty. 

That could definitely work