Spoiler Discussion Thread

[lemotomato]

But Olicity means business for CW. So i dont think they will let  the breakup go into November sweeps. And their reunion would be something that happens in sweeps month.

YMMV, but to me, anything beyond the season finale would quality as "a good long time" for them not to reunite. Next November sweeps would be an eternity.

 

I'm not saying I expect them to get re-engaged by 423, but I'd like them to be something again before summer hiatus.

 

That's really the answer to everything.

 

They'd never do something that stupid.

-S3

They'd never make that character that jerky.

-S3

They'd never do something so totally nonsensical.

-S3

They'd never make the protagonist, a SUPERHERO, an actual moron.

-S3

Season 3 broke me. Season 4A made me optimistic that the show had turned the corner in terms of writing for for character, not just plot, but then the BM drama happened, and it's season 3 all over again. 

Edited April 13, 2016 by lemotomato

[AyChihuahua]

On top of his obituary probably!

Yeah, I mean, I am all for "Yay, we're alive!" sex, but not "Yay, we're alive, and my bff, who is your very recent ex-bf, who I know still loved you and who saw me sexing you up like 12 hours after I told him to get back together with you, and who died saving your life, and whose evil father I killed but told him I didn't, isn't alive!"

 

This is really not going to make them look good. Even if it's just making out, it's really not going to make them look good. The only save I can see is if it's pre-Gambit, but I'm with everyone else, in that I think the hair and stubble pretty much rules that out. So basically, they're just totally gross and tacky and thoughtless together.

[ComicFan777]

GROWTH. FINALLY :)

 

...not that much growth if Oliver is going on about what would Laurel do...

Hopefully "what would Laurel do" doesn't become Team Arrow's new motto.

 

Edited April 13, 2016 by ComicFan777

[Guest]

I'mma need to bleach my eyes after I have to watch O/L kiss again. I THOUGHT I WAS FOREVER RELEASED FROM THAT PRISON.

 

Not liking Diggle hit Ruve whatshername. Yikes. No. :(

 

Love Oliver being the light and supporting everyone else for a change. I understand why he's using Laurel as a voice of reason or whatever but I hope it's just this one episode. Let's not give her a sainthood please and thank. 

Edited April 13, 2016 by Guest

[tangerine95]

Tbh I think the whole Laurel is a saint and the perfect hero everyone should look up to thing will last like this episode and maybe to a lesser extent until the end of this season.After that I expect her to be pretty much forgotten and not mentioned that much.Not even Tommy was brought up that much past season 2 when they needed it for Oliver's motivation to stop killing and they actually liked that character.

[catrox14]

 

Love Oliver being the light and supporting everyone else for a change. I understand why he's using Laurel as a voice of reason or whatever but I hope it's just this one episode. Let's not give her a sainthood please and thank.

 

I'm calling it now. Laurel's  costume will be cleaned and remain on display in the Lair bathed in light to remind every one of the great sacrifice Laurel made and what it means to "Stay in the light". I mean Felicity herself said that Laurel had the light inside her all along or whatever shit that was. 

[SonofaBiscuit]

I don't want to sound petty, but I'm hoping that we don't hear a lot of Laurel would do this or that...because she was never very wise and shouldn't be put on a pedestal post death.

 

WWLD---What Would Laurel Do?  Some acceptable answers include: Jump onto zipline before it anchors itself, jump off a building (without warning) and expect someone to catch you, beat up a hospital patient, go after a guy with a baseball bat, use blackmail, dig up and transport dead body, chain up feral soulless woman in basement.      

[AyChihuahua]

Season 3 broke me. Season 4A made me optimistic that the show had turned the corner in terms of writing for for character, not just plot, but then the BM drama happened, and it's season 3 all over again. 

I personally hate S3 of Arrow more than any show I've ever not just totally quit. I genuinely had rage insomnia for MONTHS, and Oliver went from my third-fave tv show character to the character I'd most like to punch really hard in the face and/or administer a lead level test to. So I hear ya.

[looptab]

I don't know why, but whenever Laurel "goodness" is brought up, I hear in my head "I'm a good person" from Crazy Ex-GF. It's the perfect theme for her.

[AyChihuahua]

Tbh I think the whole Laurel is a saint and the perfect hero everyone should look up to thing will last like this episode and maybe to a lesser extent until the end of this season.After that I expect her to be pretty much forgotten and not mentioned that much.Not even Tommy was brought up that much past season 2 when they needed it for Oliver's motivation to stop killing and they actually liked that character.

S5: Laurel who? Lance? Do you mean Sara Lance, who's hanging with that time guy?

[catrox14]

Tbh I think the whole Laurel is a saint and the perfect hero everyone should look up to thing will last like this episode and maybe to a lesser extent until the end of this season.After that I expect her to be pretty much forgotten and not mentioned that much.Not even Tommy was brought up that much past season 2 when they needed it for Oliver's motivation to stop killing and they actually liked that character.

 

The difference is Laurel got a mask and a costume which seems to be the only thing this regime counts as being a hero or sacrificial because they don't seem to think unmasked people are heroes too.  So she'll be the Beacon of Light even in death. I'll be more surprised if they ignore her after this episode.

I don't know why, but whenever Laurel "goodness" is brought up, I hear in my head "I'm a good person" from Crazy Ex-GF. It's the perfect theme for her.

 

That's so unfair to Rebecca! She really is a good person if a nutjob, but she's a nutjob for love!

[looptab]

That's so unfair to Rebecca! She really is a good person if a nutjob, but she's a nutjob for love!

True, but I could totally see Laurel keeping a knife at one's throat to make his gf say she's a good person :)

[tangerine95]

They were basically forced to give her that mask, they did it in the most rushed way possible and killed her off as soon as they could.I really don't think they care that much. Idk, I doubt it will matter much beyond what storyline or development they need to use her death for.

[Ann Mack]

Well at least the Asian promo shows why Diggle will be getting another "identity concealment" helmet he smashes that thing to bits! Destroying that ugly ass helmet may be one of Diggle's best moves all damn season!

[Velocity23]

https://twitter.com/GlendaOllero/status/720315749164650496

 

 

https://twitter.com/leafs_niners/status/720306248910970884

[Morrigan2575]

Anyone recognize anyone in the pictures?  I thought maybe Green Arrow in the top one but, now I'm not so sure.

[catrox14]

Looks like Green Arrow to me too

[nksarmi]

Since the kiss is probably NOT pre-Gambit like I hoped it was - then I will hold out hope that it's from the day he slept with her before Tommy died.  It's the moment he gave her back the picture, told her how she inspired him to survive the island, and maybe even tells her that there is something he still needs to take care of but once that's done - he wants to see her again.

 

Because I just can't think of a way they could explain the two of them getting together after Tommy died.  Laurel was not happy at the start of season two and despite what the show has recently told me* - Laurel and Oliver both seemed like they felt guilty and sick over Tommy's death.  I can't believe they got together after he died - I just can't.

 

* My new head canon is that since Laurel died of an embolism - I'm going to believe it was a brain embolism and it was already impacting her cognative skills when she made that speech to Oliver.

[wonderwall]

* My new head canon is that since Laurel died of an embolism - I'm going to believe it was a brain embolism and it was already impacting her cognative skills when she made that speech to Oliver.

 

I see people coming up with reasons as to why LL said what she said... And here I'm just going to chalk it up to LL just being a terrible character which the writers nor the actress knew how to handle... :p That's my reasoning for her giving OQ that speech.

[Velocity23]

I am getting s2 finale vibes!

[Morrigan2575]

OK so GA facing us

Maybe Lance behind the pole?

Maybe Felicity (in pants) on the far left?

I think Curtis or Diggle could be the really talk blur standing next to "Felicity"

Edited April 13, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[AyChihuahua]

Since the kiss is probably NOT pre-Gambit like I hoped it was - then I will hold out hope that it's from the day he slept with her before Tommy died.  It's the moment he gave her back the picture, told her how she inspired him to survive the island, and maybe even tells her that there is something he still needs to take care of but once that's done - he wants to see her again.

You know what, maybe. I mean who knows what happened in between Oliver carrying her to bed while she clung to him like a baby Chimpanzee, and him leaving her in bed while she was asleep. Maybe they had a couple rounds and/or conversations in there somewhere. It is plausible and much better than sex after Tommy died.

[nksarmi]

I see people coming up with reasons as to why LL said what she said... And here I'm just going to chalk it up to LL just being a terrible character which the writers nor the actress knew how to handle... :p That's my reasoning for her giving OQ that speech.

 

See it won't matter in a few months when we are on to a new season, but right now I'm just to figure out how to give her character back some respect so I can appreciate Quentin, Sara, and Team Arrow sense of loss.  I really don't want to be taken out of the moment because I expect there will be some good acting ahead on this front.

[ComicFan777]

You know what, maybe. I mean who knows what happened in between Oliver carrying her to bed while she clung to him like a baby Chimpanzee, and him leaving her in bed while she was asleep. Maybe they had a couple rounds and/or conversations in there somewhere. It is plausible and much better than sex after Tommy died.

 

It's funny to think that she was probably clinging to him like a baby chimpanzee because Stephen dropped her in the first take - I think he said it was one of his most embarrassing moments.

 

[thegirlsleuth]

The thing that shocked me most about the apocolyptic scenes is that they seem to be in the daytime.  What, do they think they're the Flash?

[catrox14]

The thing that shocked me most about the apocolyptic scenes is that they seem to be in the daytime.  What, do they think they're the Flash?

 

I wonder if they are just doing a day for night thing. Or it's supposed to be dawn after a battle or something

[Morrigan2575]

Dawn after the fighting sounds plausible 

[lemotomato]

I think Laurel and Oliver were still terrible people pre-season 2 and I'm not surprised in the least that they'd make out after Tommy's funeral. Keep in mind this is the same Oliver that ditched his teenaged sister to fend for herself while his mother was in jail. Selfish comfort make-out with someone he had considered his "home" for 5 years? Totally in character with who Oliver was at the time.

[Chaser]

GA I get because of the arms, but how can you guys make out anyone else? Ninja eyes.

 

The whole voiceover about what Laurel would want had me rolling my eyes. The whole speech is based off of 'Beacon of Hope.' One episode. They had to remove the other players to get her there. I can't take Saint Laurel seriously. 

 

Over/Under on Ollie/Laurel sex? I think it will be implied, but I think we saw the whole kiss in the promo. I'm glad some else noticed the boob job too. 

[calliope1975]

Is the riot just the citizens of Star(ling) City revolting after all the crap they've put up with for the past four years? Are they like - fuck this city, I'm stealing a TV. Or, is the evil Monsanto corn some sort of mind control? 

 

I'll put up with Laurel on a pedestal if it only lasts a few episodes and then ends forever. However, I would still take WWLD? every episode over bringing the character/actress back to the show. 

[catrox14]

GA I get because of the arms, but how can you guys make out anyone else? Ninja eyes.

 

The whole voiceover about what Laurel would want had me rolling my eyes. The whole speech is based off of 'Beacon of Hope.' One episode. They had to remove the other players to get her there. I can't take Saint Laurel seriously. 

 

Over/Under on Ollie/Laurel sex? I think it will be implied, but I think we saw the whole kiss in the promo. I'm glad some else noticed the boob job too. 

 

Could that sex scene be a cut scene from like s1?

[statsgirl]

I think the only time Oliver and Laurel could have kissed like that is when Thea told him he needed to open up to someone so he picked Laurel and took ice cream over to her place. Given that Laurel jumped him as soon as he arrived at her place at the end of s1 and then he left when she was sleeping, I don't see where there was time to get dressed again and have a relatively chaste kiss.

 

But I bet they will show it to prove even after he got back they were OTP and never tell where it could fit into the timeline.

 

 

[Edited by mod: Fan talk.]

Edited April 14, 2016 by MuuMuuChainsmoker

[NumberCruncher]

Well at least the Asian promo shows why Diggle will be getting another "identity concealment" helmet he smashes that thing to bits! Destroying that ugly ass helmet may be one of Diggle's best moves all damn season!

Haha! Exactly. Maybe Digg finally realizes that he has no peripheral vision and destroys it in his rage. Or maybe the show decided that its homage to circa-1987 Robocop was a step too far. Either way it's a win-win.

[Belinea]

[Edited by mod: Fan talk.]  The problem the show has always had (at least to me) is that they assume too much stuff. They never show it and all of sudden it is supposed to have taken place or be important. They always did it, they don't show it but the viewer is supposed to fill the gap. That is why Laurel's inspirational attitudes happened often offscreen which helps the viewer relate to it all that much more. 

 

Also, having Oliver and Laurel smooch and trade a picture right after Tommy dies would be so incredibly tasteless. But then again did Laurel really love him all that much or was he just a placeholder? 

Edited April 14, 2016 by MuuMuuChainsmoker

[Morrigan2575]

GA I get because of the arms, but how can you guys make out anyone else? Ninja eyes.

Increase your web browser (or zoom in). GA becomes obvious once you get up to about 200%. The rest were guesses.

[lemotomato]

Also, having Oliver and Laurel smooch and trade a picture right after Tommy dies would be so incredibly tasteless. But then again did Laurel really love him all that much or was he just a placeholder? 

I'm pretty sure Laurel never mentioned Tommy again after 203 (Broken Dolls). It would certainly fit with KC's head canon that Tommy was nothing but a pit stop on the way to Laurel and Oliver 4 evah.

Edited April 13, 2016 by lemotomato

[Starfish35]

I'm pretty sure Laurel never mentioned Tommy again after 203 (Broken Dolls). It would certainly fit with KC's head canon that Tommy was nothing but a pit stop on the way to Laurel and Oliver 4 evah.

No, she did, in talking to Helena in Birds of Prey.

[bijoux]

Twist - Oliver & Felicity reunite but she doesn't want to return to the team. She has her own mission now. I just want to be contrary.

 

That's actually the conclusion the wording of the article led me to. Felicity might go back to the team and not Oliver. I expected that, so the might is throwing me and I admit that I'm side eyeing it. Maybe they really will go for this twist?

 

Diggle punches ms. Darkh in the face in this new Asian promo

http://jhopq.tumblr.com/post/142746778597/arrow-4x19-trailer

 

For one, I don't mind. Yes, I think Dig should get a grip on himself, but I don't think clocking an evil lady compromises his morals in the least.

 

Well, the sleeveless suit is helpful for spotting Oliver. :) It does look like it could be Felicity on the far left. It's a smallish person and they look like they have light blond hair. The person facing Oliver, judging by their size and hair, could be Malcolm.

[tv echo]

I'm confused.  Last episode Oliver was the one telling Laurel that "Felicity convinced me that we could save the city and not surrender to the darkness, but I don't think we can". IIRC, Laurel did not say anything in response.

 

But now Oliver is telling someone, "Laurel's gone. But if she were here, she'd tell you the same thing that I would tell you - you cannot forget who you are, and we - we can never become them."

 

So first he thinks they will have to go dark to fight the darkness, but now he thinks they cannot go dark ("become them") to fight the darkness.  And no, I never saw or heard Laurel talk to him on this point one way or the other.  So his 'epiphany' must've occurred solely due to her death?

Edited April 13, 2016 by tv echo

[ComicFan777]

...maybe it was during the promise scene?...

[AyChihuahua]

Also, having Oliver and Laurel smooch and trade a picture right after Tommy dies would be so incredibly tasteless. But then again did Laurel really love him all that much or was he just a placeholder? 

Laurel obviously didn't, but I REALLY thought Oliver did. And that, along with Oliver knowing Tommy saw them sexing, to me makes Oliver look worse than Laurel in this situation.

[Belinea]

Laurel obviously didn't, but I REALLY thought Oliver did. And that, makes Oliver look worse than Laurel in this situation.

 

Well, both look horrible. But for the life of me I cannot understand why the writers consider this to be an appealing storyline [Edited by mod: Fan talk.].

Edited April 14, 2016 by MuuMuuChainsmoker

[ComicFan777]

Laurel obviously didn't, but I REALLY thought Oliver did. And that, along with Oliver knowing Tommy saw them sexing, to me makes Oliver look worse than Laurel in this situation.

 

But are we really surprised...up until this season, Laurel and Oliver always brought the worst out of each other.

 

[nksarmi]

I am going with it happened before Tommy died until the show tells me otherwise.  Of course, I went with Laurel really loved Tommy and that's what her alcoholism was about in season two until the show smacked me upside the head last episode - but still, I will hold out hope for Oliver's sake since assigning any dignity to Laurel is obviously hopeless.

 

Anyway.... I think I might like it if Oliver and Felicity got back together but she went a little hands off with the team. Like she's in love with him, there to support them if they need her, but otherwise she wants to focus on Palmer Tech and helping people that way.  Of course, I expect to see her in the lair again someday - it would just be an interesting twist since I'm expecting her to rejoin the team but not get back together with Oliver.

[NumberCruncher]

For one, I don't mind. Yes, I think Dig should get a grip on himself, but I don't think clocking an evil lady compromises his morals in the least.

This is me too. I realize the whole hitting a woman = taboo thing is legit and I generally agree with that sentiment, but this really isn't all that different from Oliver fighting (and hitting) China White or Isabel Rochev. These are evil women who wouldn't think twice about killing people like Oliver and Diggle. Ruve Darhk is no different. Just because she isn't trained to street fight doesn't exclude her from having Diggle smack her around in order to prevent her evil-doing, IMO.

[Genki]

I'm so ready to move past Because Comics...This hiatus between the death and the funeral episode is draaaaaaaaaging so much like the slowest most painful band-aid removal ever, and even thought she is gone from the show I still have Laurel fatigue. 

 

I now wish Arrow went on hiatus at the same time as Flash so 4.18 &.19 could be shown without a break in schedule.

 

I really hope after the city riot in Season 4, Season 5 doesn't have May = city-wide disaster, if they make Oliver Mayor I want to see him making a difference.

 

I feel Olicity will get back together, and Felicity will not be on the team for a while longer, maybe the talk Felicity had with Curtis that was cut in 4.18 was to push him to fill in for her. Otherwise Felicity not on the team when they need to take down Dark again is crazy. It make more sense for Felicity to be back on the Team plot-wise, but character-wise saying off, trying to help people through PT and getting the relationship with Oliver right again would be good.

 

I'm OK either way, if Felicity is in the Lair and there are sign of Olicity moving closer together, I'm happy, but MG does love his gotchas! and I think rejoining the Team Arrow the obvious answer.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Genki

[Midnight Lullaby]

I am going with it happened before Tommy died until the show tells me otherwise.  Of course, I went with Laurel really loved Tommy and that's what her alcoholism was about in season two until the show smacked me upside the head last episode - but still, I will hold out hope for Oliver's sake since assigning any dignity to Laurel is obviously hopeless.

I'd like this but is it possible? Because first she was with Tommy, then he left her and she and Oliver didn't get together until the day they had sex (just after Oliver told Tommy to fight for her..nice one dude!), then Oliver left her in bed sleeping, she went to look for him, they kissed and he told her to stay out of the glades and went to stop MM. He didn't and Tommy died. So I'd say they become quite awful people together and they made out just after Tommy died. Yikes. What I don't know is what we did to deserve the reminder..

[quarks]

There's at least four possibilities for that Oliver/Laurel scene, right?

 

1. Oliver and Laurel are making out after Tommy's funeral/before Oliver abandoned his kid sister whose mother had just been arrested for conspiracy to commit mass murder to go hide on an island which we now know was filled with evil temples, drug growing operations, failed Chinese prisons and land mines. That is, another shining moment in the life of Oliver Queen. You go, Oliver!

 

2. Oliver and Laurel are making out before he popped on the Gambit, and the hair issue is simply because Amell announced that while his contract might force him to continue to do flashbacks, it could not force him to put on the wig again. That is, Stephen Amell thinking of his hair - and his fans - and his future reputation.  You go, Stephen Amell!

 

3. Oliver is having a "what might have been" moment - that is, if he hadn't jumped on the Gambit, he and Laurel might be sitting in front of their fireplace looking at old photo albums.  This ignores, of course, the huge problem that if Oliver hadn't gone on the Gambit, he wouldn't have ended up on Evil Island - which not only would have allowed Fyers to destroy the Chinese economy and spared all of us whatever has been happening in the flashbacks this season, but also would have meant that he would never have become the Hood - and thus, all of the Glades would have been destroyed in the Undertaking. 

 

4. The writers have once again forgotten what happened in season one and the specifics of the timeline, and thus are under the impression that Oliver and Laurel had time to hookup, find a fireplace, and share a romantic moment before Team Arrow called Oliver to point out they had a larger problem and pull him out of bed. Or they forgot the dialogue in the following episode, which indicates that yes, Oliver hooked up with Laurel, then hopped out of bed, fought with Malcolm, got chained up without his shirt (thanks Malcolm) in a single night and confronted Tommy and his mother the very next day, and are under the impression that Oliver hooked up with Laurel on, say, Wednesday, and then fought with Malcolm and got chained up the following Wednesday, leaving a full week for moments like that.

[calliope1975]

Maybe this is one last piledriver home how terribad O/L were together? Yeah, I've got nothing, and I don't understand what this will narratively accomplish other than irritating everyone everywhere.

 

Truth time - I kind of hope it's a recently filmed kiss just to see if either of them have improved on the kissing front. Will SA still look uncomfortable and awkward? What will he do with his hands??? Will KC bring out anything from SA that looks like he remotely wants to be in the same room? (I haven't seen the promo more than once if those questions have already been answered.)

[Starfish35]

Knowing these writers, I'm going to put my money on #4.