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Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

Ok I can just tell from those photos - the actual death didn't make me cry - but I'm going to cry for Quentin.  Damn it - I will need to watch this episode alone.

Please keep some tissues and chocolate beside you just in case

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Angel12d

Angel12d

Ouch. Those photos of Quentin. I think that might actually get me. We'll see. And poor Oliver/Thea, clinging to each other. :(

 

Also, Oliver needs a new tailor because his suit doesn't fit properly. That's pretty much all I've got about those promo pics. LOL. I don't think this is going to be an easy episode to watch, for many reasons. 

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wonderwall

wonderwall

OLIVER, LANCE AND TEAM DEAL WITH LAUREL’S DEATH – Oliver (Stephen Amell) and the team struggle to come to terms with Laurel’s (Katie Cassidy) death, especially Diggle (David Ramsey) who is overwhelmed with guilt for choosing to believe Andy (guest star Eugene Byrd) had changed. Meanwhile, Lance (Paul Blackthorne) refuses to believe his daughter is really gone and asks Nyssa (guest star Katrina Law) to help bring her back. A recent Black Canary sighting in Star City only seems to prove his theory that Laurel isn’t actually dead. Laura Belsey directed the episode written by Wendy Mericle & Beth Schwartz (#419). Original airdate 4/27/2016.

— 

Arrow - Canary Cry - 4x19 - Synopsis

 

So THIS is why the show didn't make it that obvious that LL was actually dead lol

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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

This is actually really cruel lol Super cruel. They're rubbing the death in.

 

Episode 19 is going to be about the show telling the audience "SHe'S DEAD DEAD." Yikes


Poor Lance is right. First, he's made to believe Sara is still alive, and now he's not sure that Laurel is dead? How is he still sober?

 

I hope he actually goes for that drink but then realizes Laurel wouldn't want him to do that so he'd honor her the best he can.

Edited by wonderwall
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Angel12d

Angel12d

(edited)

Yikes. Quentin is gonna be a desperate mess. 

 

I'm guessing that girl pictured with Nyssa will be the mysterious sighting of BC. Yes?

Edited by Angel12d
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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

Wait, why does that headstone Oliver is standing in front of say 'Clayton'? Is he just standing on some other persons' grave?

 

What the heck?

 

Wait, is that the guy Thea was dating?

Edited by catrox14
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Ann Mack

Ann Mack

Maybe then the show will actually show Laurel in her coffin so Lance is forced to accept it. Then he will "probably" realize she is NOT COMING BACK, this is cruel but I think this is what the show is going to do. I know Paul Blackthorne is going to act the hell out any and all of his scenes. I really do believe episode 19 might be where and when the tears really start to pour. Unfortunately, those tears will probably be for those left behind and not for Laurel.

 

Just when some of the vitriol has probably started to die down the show is going to go back in and re-open that wound and then the mean tweets will more than likely start ALL OVER again. Glad when they move on to something else in the remaining episodes even though I know the memory and pain of Laurel will still be felt in those by her team mates, maybe just not as much!

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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

(edited)

Wait, why does that headstone Oliver is standing in front of say 'Clayton'? Is he just standing on some other persons' grave?

 

What the heck?

 

Wait, is that the guy Thea was dating?

it doesn't only says Clayton, the first name almost certainly seems to be William.

Edited by foreverevolving
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catrox14

catrox14

it doesn't only says Clayton, the first name almost certainly seems to be William.

 

Ohh...wait. what. I didn't even notice that. The hell. So that's Oliver's son....what in the world is happening there. LOL

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Angel12d

Angel12d

(edited)

Do you think the actual funeral is near the end of the episode? I can see Laurel being buried as the only way Quentin will accept it. He looks like he's being walked there by Dinah.

 

Also I watched the promo and the mysterious BC seriously looks like a kid. LOL.

Edited by Angel12d
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Ann Mack

Ann Mack

Yeah not sure why they have a headstone for Oliver's son unless it was an attempt to throw off Darhk which no one would believe. But the headstone the paps took actually had Laurel's name on it!

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

If the grave does say William Clayton, the prop person is indeed a troll. It is, apparently, one row up, and the dates don't match. The kid would have to be born in 07/08. I almost think the show could have ordered it on purpose, to sow confusion. 

 

From a story perspective, I really and truly don't understand the confusion. Sure, they're going to have that little moron kid who most people hated and barely anyone, including the show, remembers, as THE big death? Come on now.

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catrox14

catrox14

 

From a story perspective, I really and truly don't understand the confusion. Sure, they're going to have that little moron kid who most people hated and barely anyone, including the show, remembers, as THE big death? Come on now.

 

My only confusion is why that kid's name is on the headstone.  I never thought he was THE big death. I'm wondering if there will be 3 funerals now. 

Yeah not sure why they have a headstone for Oliver's son unless it was an attempt to throw off Darhk which no one would believe. But the headstone the paps took actually had Laurel's name on it!

 

Unless that headstone was the troll headstone LOL.  I'm kidding

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

My only confusion is why that kid's name is on the headstone.  I never thought he was THE big death. I'm wondering if there will be 3 funerals now. 

 

Nah, there's already a headstone on that grave. If that was our coloring simpleton's grave, the funeral would've already been held. 

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

I think Canadagraphs said the deails on that headstone don't match the demon spawn.

I'm guessing it's the DOB that doesn't match a young kid. It's also a row up.

 

TBC, I don't think the headstone has anything to do with the spawn. I think it's, in-show, a coincidence, and out-of-show, a mislead/troll move. 

 

Can't wait for a year or so from now when no one can remember the dumb kid's name.

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catrox14

catrox14

Maybe it's a joint grave for BM and Son? Like maybe she insisted they be buried together? And her name will appear on the bottom of the headstone?   There will be like back to back funerals or something LOL

 

Also, it seems like more people would be at Laurel's funeral especially if she's being buried as the Black Canary.

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lexicon

lexicon

I like the promo with Oliver trying to steady Digg for a change. I hope Oliver does become more complete by the end of the season but he can't be too complete, there still needs to be work left to be done for next season.

 

Yeah I'm not worried about that happening, even if he does learn, history indicates that midway through s5 he'll forget whatever he's learned because plot

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TVHappy9463

TVHappy9463

I haven't seen any mention of Thea or Nyssa laying into Malcolm for his part in Laurel's death. There has to be some fallout there, not to mention the whole idol thing. And I'm gonna call Andy is a deadman Darhk kills him.

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Ann Mack

Ann Mack

Sorry but I'm not buying much of what this guy is selling

 

http://moviepilot.com/posts/3859200

 

 

 

Fans of Laurel took to Twitter last night to vent their upset and anger with #NoLaurelNoArrow becoming the fourth highest trending topic!

Courtesy of Twitter 

 

Did anyone see that trend happening last night because I surely didn't unless he mean it trended locally somewhere just asking?

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looptab

looptab

(edited)

My guess is Felicity's just looking at the grave. Thea's trying to comfort Oliver and Oliver's staring at Felicity bc of all the luuuuuuuv.

It's either that, or SA's usual "stare into space/eye-contact is for losers".

 

So THIS is why the show didn't make it that obvious that LL was actually dead lol

 

 It makes sense. I'm glad, TBH. :)

I think the episode is going to  show them coping, with the burial as the final step towards acceptance, the realization that theres nothing they can do.

 

LOL at all the ways the board calls the poor kid. It's not his fault he is Oliver's son! :)

 

thank you for the link- though it didn't have that comment from Guggenheim about Felicity being out of the grave specifically for not being a mask you talked about? Edited by looptab
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Ann Mack

Ann Mack

(edited)

I am not even trying to be cruel but was there this much love, caring and passion from the media for Laurel while she was alive? Are some media outlets just using this whole episode and including the most hateful tweets in their articles for click bait? Now I'm sure there are some who could care less about Laurel Lance but are all up in a tizzy because according to them she "Black Canary" is such a great part of the Green Arrow's journey. But I do think I recall reading that there are comic books currently written were "The Green Arrow" and "The Black Canary" don't even know each other? Can't his journey be made even that much harder because he doesn't have her in his life? Aren't comic books constantly evolving? So why the hell are some of these comic book purists and those who are loosing their shit on Twiiter, Tumblr, written articles and any other format that is made available for a literate individual ALL about the love of Laurel Lance/Black Canary now? If I have interpreted something incorrectly about comic books or the ever revolving door of changes incorporated into them please someone correct me.

Edited by Ann Mack
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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

(edited)

They only havent even know each other during TheNew52 which hasnt been around that long. And if they even go by that then why would they include her in the show in the first place? They've spent over 20 years being apart of each others stories, they spent longer knowing one another then they have not knowing one another.

Edited by Primal Slayer
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arjumand

arjumand

I'm actually really excited about seeing the dynamic among the team, especially because I think KC was the weakest actor within the group. I anticipate that there will be a different vibe, with less arm-crossing and sharp intakes of breath before speaking. Hopefully, there will be less unintentional vitriol directed toward Oliver, too.  I'm just hoping for more natural interactions among these friends and teammates. 

 

I agree, though I will miss the various "Laurel-bot is now in stand-by mode" gifsets.

 

OTOH, I have liked Laurel more in this season than any other. And if they were going to get rid of the character, I wish they could have done it without killing off yet another female character. That seriously bugs me, every time.

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bijoux

bijoux

I'm glad it's Lance looking for it. He's got evey right to be distraght and more than a little irrational. I'm also positive he's going to kill both the audience and the charactes on screen with the feelings.

Also, it seems like more people would be at Laurel's funeral especially if she's being buried as the Black Canary.

It does, doesn't it? Maybe we'll see the masses convege during Olive's eulogy. Or the family simply wanting it small and private.

The Black Canary on the headstone is also starting to make sense with the copy cat. We've seen multiple people in Oliver's hood, Laurel took on Sara's jacket and Thea got Roy's costume. So the thing that hasn't been done before could be burying the mask, not just the person. Possible scenario: there's this kid running around in the costume and it's killing Lance. The team and /or Nyssa find her and bring her to the funeral to make her realize the consequences of this life. The name goes on the stone to bring it home for any others like her and to allow Lance to start the process of letting go.

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looptab

looptab

The question is, how cringeworthy will the eulogy be, on a scale of 1 to 10? :/

 

I figured that the name would be on the stone to drive home that she was The Black Canary, but your scenario works for me, too, @bijoux. Although that would be a little hypocrite - why are they allowed to run around in masks and other people are not? Unless they really show that this person is seriously untrained - though, that didn't stop Laurel. Afterall they've been hitting us on the head all season with the "you've inspired a lot of people", "be a beacon of hope". Not sure where they are going with this.

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bijoux

bijoux

(edited)

My current theory is burying the particular mask and not have it show up again. As I said, Laurel took Sara's, Dig was in the Glades as the Arrow after Oliver's "death", Thea got the Arsenal suit, Jax stepped in as part of Firestorm when Ronnie died. So retiring the specific mask is my guess.

So, the part of Nyssa taking the girl to train her possibly comes to fruition with her as another hero, not as BC.

 

AR419b_0132b.jpg

 

What do you think this is about? Dig is giving the stink eye to someone and I can't really imagine who it is. I mean, it can't be DD or Malcolm or Andy showing up. He'd be going for their throats. Oliver also looks suspicious to say the least. Maybe it's Madison talking about what BC meant to her?

Edited by bijoux
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Genki

Genki

AR419b_0154b.jpg

 

This totally looks like Oliver's "I :heart Felicity" face. 

 

It's a bit irksome that they are dragging out Laurel death like this, especially with the hiatus. Seems like they are keeping the wound exposed as long as possible.

 

Going forward, if they are acknowledging Laurel as the Black Canary what will it mean for Team Arrow's identities, they surely can't remain a secret now.

 

Thea's ex-boyfriend and current roommate both exposed as vigilantes, Oliver's been accused more than once, it seems like they are leading up to a secret identity exposure, but I'm not sure if that is a good idea, story-wise for the show. Unless Felicity has been scrubbing video footage, surely Team Arrow's image has been captured somewhere. People should be putting things together.

 

Even if it's just Laurel who is exposed as a vigilante, will all her convictions as ADA be overturned? If she hadn't died, she would have probably lost her job, right? Or is this moot because so many inmates escaped Iron-height with Dahrk?

 

I wonder if one of those inmates that escaped was Papa Smoak...

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chaos is welcome

chaos is welcome

Speaking of thea's wardrobe choices, her safety pin shirt in this last ep was awful. I got one am not liking forward to this ep at all. Fake black canary, breaking Quentin, laurel flashbacks, and taking about what the she'd want for the team. Just not interested.

Considering they took six-seven months building up top here, I am horribly apathetic.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

The question is, how cringeworthy will the eulogy be, on a scale of 1 to 10? :/

12? And what's the over/under on it containing the words "Dinah Laurel Lance, always trying to save the world"?

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

Random thought: With talks of the looking for the pit, it made me think of Oliver/Felicity talk about the pit back in 4x5 - I got the impression back then that Felicity would use the pit because she doesn't want to say goodbye whereas Oliver thought it shouldn't be used. 

 

If Felicity is determined to find the pit to resurrect LL, do you think Oliver would discourage her and tell her that she needs to let go? or do you think his opinion has changed now?

 

So it seems from the episode summary that it's Quentin looking for another LP so Felicity is probably just looking for Hive and DD?  Or maybe she'll still not be doing much of anything.  Anyone remember if she had another light week for 4-19?

So, given the flash forward scene and the spoiler pics, does Oliver just hang around until the cemetery dudes cover the coffin with dirt? Does he help them shovel? How freaking long is Felicity chilling in the back of the limo? I need answers.

Now we know why she's so tense.  Her bladder is about to explode. 

12? And what's the over/under on it containing the words "Dinah Laurel Lance, always trying to save the world"?

I did have to crack up when they referenced it in the group interview the producers and KC and PB did.  It didn't have to be said in the show since the producers invoked it.  (I also want to say KC said it too)

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looptab

looptab

12? And what's the over/under on it containing the words "Dinah Laurel Lance, always trying to save the world"?

I sure hope he is not going to say the exact phrase - I want Oliver to live!
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

IIRC, one of the postmortem interviews indicated or hinted that Quentin would not turn to alcohol again because he'll come to rely on Team Arrow as his "family". Therefore, he could develop a fatherly concern for all of the younger members of the team (not just Felicity).

 

Remember these WM quotes from last year?

-- WM: "For this season, what we’re really trying to focus on is the idea of family and what that blood family means versus a found family, how does Oliver see himself within his relationship with Felicity and with this sister, Thea, but also within his Team Arrow family... This season is really about the idea of family, not just for Oliver, but also for Diggle, and solving the mystery of his brother’s murder. And there’s also Felicity dealing with her mom and possibly also her father." (Emmys article, page 93 of Starling City Times thread)
-- On the theme for S4, WM: "But also, we're really exploring the idea of family. What does it mean - not just the Team Arrow family, but the Queen family, and Diggle's family, Felicity's family - we'll be expanding the univer - er, the characters to see what these people are like when they go home, see what their lives are like outside the 'Arrowcave'. And also what does it mean to be part of a family. And the difference between found family and biological family... what does that mean to each of our characters." (Unidentified video of media interview with MG and WM at SDCC 2015, page 161 of Behind the Mask thread; io9 article, page 64 of Starling City Times thread; and Eonline article, page 64 of Starling City Times thread)

Maybe after spending most of this season prioritizing blood family over found family, the season will end with found family coming first - Oliver, Thea, Felicity, Diggle and Quentin (with additional support coming from Lyla, Donna and Curtis).

 

In terms of blood family... Quentin will be alone since his daughter Sara will continue traveling with the Legends, Oliver and Thea will have each other as siblings, Thea will likely be estranged from her evil bio dad Malcolm, Diggle will likely lose his evil brother Andy (although he will have baby Sara and Lyla), and Felicity will have her mom Donna but we don't know if Donna will stay in Star City or return to Vegas.  (We also don't know what will happen to Donna's relationship with Quentin, or if Noah Kuttler will return.)  If Donna does stay in Star City, then she could be like the den mother of the team.

 

And next season when Curtis likely joins the team, he'll probably be alone as well since his husband will probably be either killed or divorced (because of secrets and lies) in order to spur Curtis' superhero journey.

Edited by tv echo
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