Spoiler Discussion Thread

[GreatAtBoats]

Thea and Felicity interact when it's warranted, which isn't that often since they don't have much in common other than Oliver and the team.

[way2interested]

Thea and Felicity interact when it's warranted, which isn't that often since they don't have much in common other than Oliver and the team.

 

And yet, weirdly enough, those interactions feel more organic and interesting to me? Even minimal ones like her asking Felicity where is it in 404 or her teasing Felicity in 321 with "-ish" were more interesting and acceptable than most of the Laurel/Felicity interactions. Even the quick shot in one of the promos of Felicity standing in front of Thea and Thea's arm on Felicity's shoulder when they and Diggle are surrounded by the Ghosts gets me more intrigued on their relationship than many of the times when Laurel and Felicity acknowledge each other. I'm still holding out for another real talk between them once Roy comes into town and it's revealed that Felcity's probable dad was blackmailing him.

Edited December 7, 2015 by way2interested

[Angel12d]

There was actually a couple of gifsets on tumblr a while ago showing Thea/Felicity parallels (I'm not on tumblr anymore so I'm not sure I could find it now) and I was surprised by how many similarities there were. I think they probably do have a lot in common. Besides, being the two most important people in Oliver's life is a pretty big common ground they share.

 

So yeah. I also hope they have a scene together at some point, you know, where they actually acknowledge each other and talk.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Angel12d

[Sakura12]

What do Laurel and Felicity have in common besides the Team? Thea and Felicity's connection is through Oliver. Thea is his sister and Felicity is his live in girlfriend, that makes them a family. It's Laurel that really has no reason to talk to Felicity outside the team. Giving them more scenes together over Felicity and Thea makes little sense. But I suppose again, they need something for Laurel do to, she'll take over someone's time, like her getting more time with Nyssa than Sara ever did. 

 

They just keep throwing Laurel places hoping she'll eventually stick somewhere. When the simplest solution is to get rid of her. They don't have to kill her just send her away and free up the actress to get a project where they actually care about her character. Because this show obviously does not.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Sakura12

[bijoux]

What doe sOliver have in his hand when he talks about fighting with light?

[SmallScreenDiva]

I would like to see Felicity and Thea in conversations that don't include Oliver or Roy. In fact, give me a scene where Felicity is teaching Thea the basics of manning the comms. No need to hack but just how to work the system in case Felicity gets tied up in a board meeting or something (hmmm, maybe I should send this as a prompt to fic writers). I also wouldn't say no to a scene of Thea and Felicity working out in the lair. Maybe Thea teaching her some self-defense (I'd prefer it be Oliver because of the possibility of sexy times) but can teach her since she and Felicity are almost the same size and her technique might actually work better. 

 

They've actually had a few interactions here and there during the past 8 eps, like when Thea asked if it was OK to bring Curtis. But most of it is very general, team-related stuff. I just want Felicity to say "Cute jacket!" Or have Thea drop by the loft to borrow a top from Felicity.

[apinknightmare]

What doe sOliver have in his hand when he talks about fighting with light?

 

The moleskine journal where he jots down his feels.

Edited December 7, 2015 by apinknightmare

[bijoux]

The moleskine journal where he jots down his feels.

Heh. Though I think that one is bigger.

[apinknightmare]

Heh. Though I think that one is bigger.

 

It was a joke - I know this one is smaller. It's pocket-sized, for on-the-go emotions.

[bijoux]

I know you're joking. I just meant to say I was a geek who actually thought about that for a split second.

[SmallScreenDiva]

What doe sOliver have in his hand when he talks about fighting with light?

 

I think that's a tree-lighting event, and that's a remote in his hand. It looks like a device with a button in a photo I saw floating on Twitter.

Edited December 7, 2015 by SmallScreenDiva

[Primal Slayer]

What do Laurel and Felicity have in common besides the Team? Thea and Felicity's connection is through Oliver. Thea is his sister and Felicity is his live in girlfriend, that makes them a family. It's Laurel that really has no reason to talk to Felicity outside the team. Giving them more scenes together over Felicity and Thea makes little sense. But I suppose again, they need something for Laurel do to, she'll take over someone's time, like her getting more time with Nyssa than Sara ever did. 

 

They just keep throwing Laurel places hoping she'll eventually stick somewhere. When the simplest solution is to get rid of her. They don't have to kill her just send her away and free up the actress to get a project where they actually care about her character. Because this show obviously does not.

Considering they both dated Oliver and both are into saving the city I would say that is enough to bond over. Laurel has known Thea long enough to be considered part of her family, Felicity/Oliver break up then what do Thea/Felicity have to do with each other? Oliver/Felicity/Diggle all had no reason to talk to each other outside of the team but WOW they formed bonds because they did.

[apinknightmare]

Considering they both dated Oliver and both are into saving the city I would say that is enough to bond over. 

 

 

And Felicity is dating Thea's brother and they're both into saving the city, so...is that not enough? With as fiercely as Oliver loves Thea and Felicity, it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility that they'd all spend time together and form attachments that would last outside of a relationship. Literally everyone on the team has a reason to be friends outside of the team, regardless of who is romantically attached to whom.

[statsgirl]

Felicity and Laurel are both into saving the city, as is Thea, but they do it in different ways and coming from different motivations.  Personality-wise they are very different kinds of people and while it is not impossible to make them work friends or perhaps even more, the way to do it is not They're professional women!  They're close to the same age! (although Felicity is half-way between Laurel and Thea). They're on Team Superheros!  That just shows up how badly the character don't mesh, and reminds many viewers of seasons 1 - 3.9 when Laurel treated Felicity as something to scrape off the bottom of her shoes.

 

Last season when Oliver was Al Saheem, it was Felicity along with the Diggles who was checking that Thea is okay, and Felicity who gave her the information to track down Roy because she wanted Thea to have something hopeful in her life.  And Felicity was close to Roy, who was Thea's love for three seasons.

 

Felicity and Thea both know what it's like to grow up without a father, unlike Laurel who still has both her parents and had nothing bad happen to her until she was 22 and the Queen's Gambit went down. Thea and even Felicity had more than enough childhood and young adult trauma.  Even without them both being the women Oliver loves, they have enough be friends. And more than enough to share conversations in scenes they're both in.

[Orion]

I can't decide if this is intentional or not.  But I absolutely adore this shot. The way the outline of Felicity's hair is creating an overlay over Oliver gives him the silhouette of wearing the Green Arrow's hood. It cuts his face in the exact same place.  If it is intentional bravo to the director because it adds a nice little bit of symbolism.

 

[lemotomato]

Considering they both dated Oliver and both are into saving the city I would say that is enough to bond over.

"A hey Laurel, Remember when the Triad was stealing medical shipments to hospitals in the Glades and Team Arrow was trying to stop them except your vendetta against the Arrow derailed our efforts? Good times."

"What did you do for your birthday, Felicity?"

"Oh, Oliver made chicken cordon bleu and planned a romantic evening."

"That's nice. When we dated, Ollie took me to a club, got drunk, and flirted with other women all night."

[Primal Slayer]

And Felicity is dating Thea's brother and they're both into saving the city, so...is that not enough? With as fiercely as Oliver loves Thea and Felicity, it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility that they'd all spend time together and form attachments that would last outside of a relationship. Literally everyone on the team has a reason to be friends outside of the team, regardless of who is romantically attached to whom.

I agree, but I was saying that in comparison to Laurel apparently not having any reason to be friends with Felicity since apparently you have to be dating the brother to be friends or something.

[wonderwall]

I can't decide if this is intentional or not.  But I absolutely adore this shot. The way the outline of Felicity's hair is creating an overlay over Oliver gives him the silhouette of wearing the Green Arrow's hood. It cuts his face in the exact same place.  If it is intentional bravo to the director because it adds a nice little bit of symbolism.

 

 

I doubt the director thought long and hard about this :p but this is unintentionally awesome

[Primal Slayer]

"A hey Laurel, Remember when the Triad was stealing medical shipments to hospitals in the Glades and Team Arrow was trying to stop them except your vendetta against the Arrow derailed our efforts? Good times."

"What did you do for your birthday, Felicity?"

"Oh, Oliver made chicken cordon bleu and planned a romantic evening."

"That's nice. When we dated, Ollie took me to a club, got drunk, and flirted with other women all night."

That's an episode I would want to see.

[Angel12d]

It's okay guys. There's enough Thea to go around. She can be friends with two different women at the same time!

[statsgirl]

It's okay guys. There's enough Thea to go around. She can be friends with two different women at the same time!

That should be addressed to the Arrow writers.  Because they haven't got the memo yet.

[Sakura12]

Yes Thea can be friends both. However the show only allows Thea to hang out with Laurel and for Felicity to only hang out with Laurel.

Remove Laurel and Felicity and Thea can hang out.

[wonderwall]

LOL I genuinely don't understand why people don't want Felicity/Thea to interact? Kind of strange if you ask me. It's not like there can be only 1 female friendship on the show at a time. 

 

The reason why I want Thea/Felicity to interact is because it's WEIRD that they don't interact. Thea knows that Oliver wants to propose to Felicity. Any normal sister would then want to get to know her future sister-in-law better. It would also be weird because they're in the same room all the time yet they've barely said a word to one another. It's strange.

 

And I don't get the whole Felicity/Thea don't have enough in common to talk. You don't need to have a lot in common to communicate with someone or be friends with them or confide in one another. What a ludicrous idea. Felicity/Oliver have almost nothing in common in terms of interests yet they get along famously and  are in a serious relationship together. 

 

I mean I can imagine Thea ribbing Felicity like she did last season with her normal-ish comment, or them talking about Oliver and their childhood so Felicity could get to know them better, or have them talk about Roy because they were both close to him, or talk about Felicity's childhood and bond over that... And with Felicity being the chatterbox that she is, I doubt they'd run out of conversation.

Edited December 8, 2015 by wonderwall

[statsgirl]

Or Thea and Felicity could both rib Oliver about his ridiculous overprotectiveness.

[Primal Slayer]

Just give me a girls night out episode already. Let Oliver/Diggle take a night off and have the girls take over.

[Genki]

I would like to see more Felicity/Lyla, I hope with Diggle's Brother Storyline starting up she isn't forgotten. I assume she was watching Andy while everyone was off in CC. We know Baby Sara is in future  episodes so...hopefully.

[Angel12d]

The thing I will complain about is that Laurel is having friendship building scenes with Thea and Diggle and Felicity has what? Curtis? And that's not even friendship she can confide in because that's more employer/employee so far. It does sometimes feel like they're pushing her out, so they really do need to get some better balance on all these relationships otherwise I'll call shenanigans.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Angel12d

[Primal Slayer]

This season yeah, they have treated Felicity weird with having her just mainly talk to Curtis/Oliver while only interacting with everyone else when it is time to work. I do hope they do fix that as well.

[jay741982]

Or Thea and Felicity could both rib Oliver about his ridiculous overprotectiveness.

This needs to happen!

Just give me a girls night out episode already. Let Oliver/Diggle take a night off and have the girls take over.

So do this!

[bijoux]

According to SA's Facebook Q&A Oliver does parkouring and jumping on moving vehicles in 4x12 (praise) and he speaks Arabic again. When has he ever spoken Arabic?

He also gets bitten by a shark in 4x09 and whispers, 'I'm coming for you' to someone. Or something similar, I didn't go back to check the exact quote. It's likely to Felicity through the glass, explaining the whispered I love you as well, I think.

[calliope1975]

According to SA's Facebook Q&A Oliver does parkouring and jumping on moving vehicles in 4x12 (praise) and he speaks Arabic again. When has he ever spoken Arabic?

He also gets bitten by a shark in 4x09 and whispers, 'I'm coming for you' to someone. Or something similar, I didn't go back to check the exact quote. It's likely to Felicity through the glass, explaining the whispered I love you as well, I think.

 

I think some of that was from 2 truths and a lie or 2 lies and a truth. I was only half paying attention, though. Clearly. 

 

ETA: Nope. I was wrong. Here's the 2 truths and a lie.

 

Edited December 8, 2015 by calliope1975

[bijoux]

I think some of that was from 2 truths and a lie or 2 lies and a truth. I was only half paying attention, though. Clearly.

The shark is from that. The other two are Oliver being the only one to wear the suit (false) and there being two Christmas tree lightings.

[statsgirl]

So the underwater clip is from a flashback?  Because unless they're at the aquarium, there's aren't any sharks in Vancouver Star City waters.

Edited December 8, 2015 by statsgirl

[wonderwall]

So the underwater clip is from a flashback?  Because unless they're at the aquarium, there's aren't any sharks in Vancouver Star City waters.

 

I'm pretty sure that's where he got his scar from (lower left hip). So yeah. Flashback :)

[looptab]

Ohh, so we're going to see Poppy play nurse? How wonderful!

[wonderwall]

I honestly don't know how the midseason finale will go whether it will be good or bad... If I'm going to love it (in a painful way) or hate it (proposal, kidnapping, 'killing' Felicity)... 

 

But I do know this. This will be me on Wednesday night:

 

[kismet]

So is the GA suit called the "Arrow Suit" or is SA playing word games with us? Because technically the "Arrow" suit is still in SCPD police custody.

 

Otherwise, that has to be the worst case of 2 truths & a lie for anyone who watches the previews. I feel like MM has been shown in the suit in multiple previews now.

 

Either way... shark bite is a new thing to try on Arrow. I'm surprised there hasn't been more aquatic predators. Or more water scenes in general.

[looptab]

I have a question about the new promo from CW: is that a new, new promo, as in they purposely assembled another one to "replace" the previous one, or is it the usual second promo?

[Genki]

Seems way longer than the usual second Promo think they are trying get numbers up for the Mid-season finale. It's actually a pretty good promo, annoying that there is the BM drama hanging over everything.

[kismet]

One last vent, only because it showed up in an official promo now -

 

So it looks like the hug that came after a possible proposal stayed in the clip that Wonderwall posted from NZ. The writers are really thinking its ok for OQ to want to propose publically to FS while he is hiding BM & William.... Really? Really? I can't with these writers. There are just so many things that are wrong with that from a character perspective. It just makes everything worse when it gets revealed and not in a good way. In a way that makes me question, how FS will think she can trust him? I was really hoping we didn't get a proposal in 409, but maybe they are channeling Dyla with their spontaneous wedding during a battle. But still.... BADLY DONE WRITERS!!

[Chaser]

Honestly the more I think about how the kid was handled in 4x08 and where they are in the plot, the more I think the whole thing is stupid.

Oliver would have to be a moron to go see the kid after DD targets everyone he loves in 4x09.

Because of Oliver keeping the kid a secret from everyone we won't get Oliver's thoughts on having a kid. Which was something that they really glossed over in the last episode.

The kid and BM haven't been seen recently. How exactly are they planning on working this story in?

[looptab]

Since the show is painting the lie as a necessary lie, because Mama said so, I wonder if PapaSmoak-and the way the whole thing affects Felicity-will be a sort of turning point for Oliver, in a 'I think William should know I'm his father, and Felicity should as well'. So there he is, finally realizing he has to tell her, except PapaSmoak beats him to it and drama ensues.

[thegirlsleuth]

Since the show is painting the lie as a necessary lie, because Mama said so, I wonder if PapaSmoak-and the way the whole thing affects Felicity-will be a sort of turning point for Oliver, in a 'I think William should know I'm his father, and Felicity should as well'. So there he is, finally realizing he has to tell her, except PapaSmoak beats him to it and drama ensues.

 

That's how I am expecting Felicity to find out--Papa Smoak gives her proof of Oliver and William in a genuine moment of trying to be a good father, saying something like  "Don't get involved with a guy like ME".

[bijoux]

One last vent, only because it showed up in an official promo now -

 

So it looks like the hug that came after a possible proposal stayed in the clip that Wonderwall posted from NZ. The writers are really thinking its ok for OQ to want to propose publically to FS while he is hiding BM & William.... Really? Really? I can't with these writers. There are just so many things that are wrong with that from a character perspective. It just makes everything worse when it gets revealed and not in a good way. In a way that makes me question, how FS will think she can trust him? I was really hoping we didn't get a proposal in 409, but maybe they are channeling Dyla with their spontaneous wedding during a battle. But still.... BADLY DONE WRITERS!!

 

I'm fond of your idea (I think it was yours) that the proposal is actually a trick by the production. Unless this hug was slowed down, it seems to last longer than the one in the behind the scenes video. So fingers crossed that it's actually an 'everyone's alive, I love you, happy Christmukkah' hug.

 

 

 

 

Of course it will be after the proposal however.

Edited December 8, 2015 by bijoux

[looptab]

That's how I am expecting Felicity to find out--Papa Smoak gives her proof of Oliver and William in a genuine moment of trying to be a good father, saying something like "Don't get involved with a guy like ME".

Oh, yeah, that's how I'm expecting it to go down as well. But my point was more about Oliver's mindset and what could bring him to finally tell her-assuming he doesn't come clean before 12/13. I'd much prefer that he showed some sign of struggling with the secret, rather than just have it being exposed. Edited December 8, 2015 by looptab

[lemotomato]

I think this proposal is an impulsive decision by Oliver as a reaction to everything that happens in the episode and it's meant to make their inevitable breakup (when Felicity finds out about BM and the kid) more painful. If you think about it, all of the Olicity "firsts"-- "I love you", date, sex-- were kind of tainted somehow. So of course their first proposal has to be shadowed by secrets and lies.

[kismet]

I'm fond of your idea (I think it was your) that the proposal is actually a trick by the production. Unless this hug was slowed down, it seems to last longer than the one in the behind the scenes video. So fingers crossed that it's actually an 'everyone's alive, I live you, happy Christmukkah' hug.

 

 

 

 

Of course it will be after the proposal however.

I think it was my idea.... I was so fond of it as well. :) In fact, I will live in delusional land for a little while longer that it is all a production stunt.... Maybe its just a here is my girlfriend, we just lit a holiday tree hug. I don't watch many holiday tree lightings, but I do believe people hug at these right?

 

Probably not.... this is when I need @aychihuahua back on the board to bring me back into reality that these writers are just that awful & dumb.

[dtissagirl]

I don't know why I was confused by this, but I just realized Oliver makes two speeches in this episode. One outing DD after the attack on the bay clean-up, and then another one at the end -- the one when he says "fight darkness with LIES light" -- pre-proposal.

Edited December 8, 2015 by dtissagirl

[kismet]

I think this proposal is an impulsive decision by Oliver as a reaction to everything that happens in the episode and it's meant to make their inevitable breakup (when Felicity finds out about BM and the kid) more painful. If you think about it, all of the Olicity "firsts"-- "I love you", date, sex-- were kind of tainted somehow. So of course their first proposal has to be shadowed by secrets and lies.

Never thought about it before like that, but really all of their firsts were... Might as well keep the trend.  Even the first meet the parents were tarnished. About the only first that went smoothly was their first major fight as a couple in 406.

 

Their first wedding is obviously not going to get off without a hitch, I imagine its gonna be a Bratva thing or the NP marriage that reeks havoc on it. Somebody will probably get kidnapped or go missing on their first anniversary. Their first real house will probably burn down over next Holiday season because the Menorah Candles will set the Christmas Tree on fire. Their first pet will meet a tragic death. At this rate we can almost guarantee a miscarriage at some point in the series. The list can go on.  Sadly, I almost expect all the misery from these writers now :(

Edited December 8, 2015 by kismet

[looptab]

I think none of us were expecting the three different dangerous scenarios-shooting at the bay, kidnapping at the office and what follows, then limo. That threw us off, haha.

I thought the proposal could be fake as well, when the first promos came out and they showed the chamber thing, but since they did show the limo in later promos I think the proposal is real. It lines up with what we knew before 408 :/