statsgirl February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 Malcolm Merlyn is a psychopath, which is not the same as being psychotic so yeah, not insane. The problem is, if they made him sane, what would they do with him? At the point Oliver doesn't need a mentor and there's even less storyline to a sane MM than there is to Walter. Link to comment
KirkB February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 Malcolm isn't insane, in either the clinical or legal sense. He is fully aware that the things he's doing are wrong, he just doesn't give a shit. He's amoral. 1 Link to comment
TanyaKay February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 I agree, Malcolm is just pure evil and any attempt to redeem him would just fall flat. Plus not every character needs to be redeemed. Some characters should just stay evil. The most deliciously grey character on the show was Moira Queen played superbly by Susanna Thompson and she still remains the best. 3 Link to comment
catrox14 February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 Interesting discussion. What makes a person sane or not in the world of Arrow. Would the Lazurus Pit only make someone insane? How do we know if it's insanity, psychosis, what have you? The Joker was a psychopath so what makes him different than Malcolm? I mean the Joker does some really psychotic things that are not dissimilar to Malcolm's earthquake machine. I mean what sane person would decide that was the way to clean up the Glades? Link to comment
AyChihuahua February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 Psychosis is a full-blown break with reality, e.g., seeing people as evil aliens who must be stopped at all costs. Psychopath is more perceiving reality more or less accurately, but just not caring. Psychosis is the classic "insane." Schizophrenia is kind of psychosis-lite, unless it goes all the way to psychosis during a psychotic break. Malcolm has more of a personality disorder or four. He's not "insane," in the classic sense. Link to comment
tv echo February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 (edited) I've come across a few recent articles that are speculating that Malcolm's death is the big twist at the end of 3x15 (the "final twist" mentioned by MG in "Nanda Parbat"). I'm not so sure. Edited February 17, 2015 by tv echo 1 Link to comment
Genki February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 I find without Moira to play against I can't overlook the things about Malcolm that irritated me. So I really hope they kill him off dead dead. Not mostly dead or faking dead but head explodes off his body falls out of a helicopter splat onto the concrete, don't even give him a garbage bin to soften the impact dead. If his storyline for the season was different I wouldn't mind his presence but like everyone else his story arc is a victim of the rise of Laurel Lance. But since he is already a mass murderer I honestly don't think he can be redeemed but I would allow a sacrifice himself for Thea type death. I'm really hoping 3.14 gives me a reason to start watching again. I hope there is some nuance between the interaction of Slade and Oliver and now the mirakuru crazy has been out of his system for months there is more to Slade than Shado revenge (and I actually saw the pining for her during 2A). I actually thought they would integrate Slade into the Suicide Squad. I really hope they don't kill him off especially since I was really hoping for Felicity/Slade interaction. Which *sigh* isn't possible in this episode. 6 Link to comment
tv echo February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 Giving us some Felicity/Slade interaction would've taken Felicity off of prop duty. 4 Link to comment
wonderwall February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 Giving us some Felicity/Slade interaction would've taken Felicity off of prop duty. Felicity will be on full prop patrol in The Flash too, which is a shame and goes to show how thirsty the EPs are to spin off The Atom. Eugh. 3 Link to comment
wonderwall February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 Ya know, with the promo pics released, I think it was really smart to release photos of present day with Slade, and pretty much all of the flash back pics have Tommy in them... Link to comment
tv echo February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 (edited) Just speculating... we know that in 3x15 (Nanda Parbat) Malcolm is captured by Ra's. So let's say Oliver and Thea (because Oliver can't stop her) go to Nanda Parbat to try to save Malcolm (why? because plot). Ra's learns the truth - that Malcolm drugged Thea to kill Sara, and he kills Malcolm. Episode ends on cliffhanger as to the Queen siblings' fate. Then in 3x16 (The Offer), Oliver offers his life to save Thea. But Thea objects and offers her life to save Oliver. Ra's then offers to let Oliver live if Thea will take Sara's place in the LOA. (I can see him being more amenable to accepting young Thea into LOA training than Laurel.) Oliver of course objects. Then Thea gives a big speech about how he has always protected her but now it's her turn to protect him, and it's her choice. (Sorry, I'm channeling the climactic River & Simon scene in Serenity.) Ra's gives her one month to tie up her life in SC and return to Nanda Parbat. Then Oliver & Thea are back in SC by 3x17 for Diggle & Lyla's wedding. Incidentally, hadn't there been a spoiler about how Laurel would turn to Nyssa for help regarding her dilemma of lying to her father about Sara being alive? But that never happened. Laurel told her father the truth without Nyssa's help. Edited February 17, 2015 by tv echo 1 Link to comment
statsgirl February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 Why can't it be Laurel who stays behind in Nanda Parbat? (she whined). I can see Thea fitting into the Arrow team more easily than I can see Laurel. I'm dreading having Laurel there every time there's a lair scene. Ya know, with the promo pics released, I think it was really smart to release photos of present day with Slade, and pretty much all of the flash back pics have Tommy in them... Except for the part where there is only one photo of Diggle and none of Felicity. I'll see the gag (as in joke) scenes on the internet with Diggle and Felicity, but the idea of Oliver/Thea/Slade on the island and Tommy/Laurel/Quentin/Thea holds no interest for me. Oliver was really against Diggle in the first few episodes of S1 because of the type of person Diggle is. Will they be able to tie that in to Oliver seeing him in the past? Psychosis is a full-blown break with reality, e.g., seeing people as evil aliens who must be stopped at all costs. Psychopath is more perceiving reality more or less accurately, but just not caring. Psychosis is the classic "insane." Schizophrenia is kind of psychosis-lite, unless it goes all the way to psychosis during a psychotic break. Malcolm has more of a personality disorder or four. He's not "insane," in the classic sense. I have to disagree that schizophrenia is "psychosis-lite" because even when they're not in a psychotic break, they still have to battle hearing voices all the time telling them often terrible things. A psychotic break is what is usually termed "insane" but anyone with an axis I mental illness (schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, bipolar disorder etc.) has a life I don't envy. If anything, MM has a personality disorder and those are very difficult to treat because the person doesn't see it as being anything wrong. Malcolm thought that the way to clean up the crime in Starling City was to destroy The Glades and he's still sticking by it. Link to comment
AyChihuahua February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 (edited) I have to disagree that schizophrenia is "psychosis-lite" because even when they're not in a psychotic break, they still have to battle hearing voices all the time telling them often terrible things. Well yeah, but then when the voices, etc., become overwhelming and often visual, they have a full break. Thus, psychosis-lite. A "lite" version of psychosis is not exactly a trip to Barbados. And no mental illness is fun or envy-inducing. Otherwise it wouldn't really be an illness. If anything, MM has a personality disorder and those are very difficult to treat because the person doesn't see it as being anything wrong. Agreed. Which is why I said he has a personality disorder or four. Edited February 17, 2015 by AyChihuahua Link to comment
Hook75 February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 SA said in one of his videos on his Facebook page, that an upcoming episode ends with Oliver on his knees in front of Ra's. Since episode 3x16 is called "The Offer", Ra's might make some kind of offer to Oliver, I have no idea what kind though... Leading to Oliver being in jail, making room for Atom & FC to take over his city and his show. 1 Link to comment
WaitandHope February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 I'll play...MM is a narcissistic psychopath with a high Intelligence. While I guessed earlier that the game changer would be his death, I don't actually believe it. I want it to be true...but I don't think it will happen, especially since he's now the *reason* Olicity is not happening. I'd put it at 20% likely, mostly because JB is such a personal asset to the show and gains them so much free press and acclaim, especially amongst fandom crowds. But I do feel like his arc has extended past the point of credulity or narrative meaning. How much more can they wring from his story without redeeming him? And because of his horrible crimes and psychopathy I'm not sure he is remotely redeemable. Thea's tolerance of him has made me dislike her character. Oliver's 'protection' of him at the end of the Magician made me throw things at my TV. I understand his recent decision to be trained by him but it's also barely tolerable. I hope his getting killed in 315 is the game changer, but I doubt it happens. So like all of you, still at a loss and wondering if there's really a game changer at all! 3 Link to comment
wonderwall February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 (edited) Based on the new spoilers I just posted, Quentin and Donna will have scenes together. I want Quentin and Donna to make out so bad............ :p I used to be against it because then Oliver/Felicity would be quasi sister swapping again. But I can't deny that Quentin needs a new start away from his shitty daughter and his crappy city and Donna can give that to him :'). Also: Edited February 18, 2015 by wonderwall 6 Link to comment
statsgirl February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 I want a "Quentin Lance and Donna Smoak solve crime in Las Vegas" spin-off. Sort of like Dresden Files but without the magic. 8 Link to comment
apinknightmare February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 Based on the new spoilers I just posted, Quentin and Donna will have scenes together. I want Quentin and Donna to make out so bad............ :p Do they have some inside info, or are they going off the pictures PB and CR posted? Link to comment
wonderwall February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 Do they have some inside info, or are they going off the pictures PB and CR posted? Well apparently they interviewed PB and this spoiler sort of came up? Link to comment
Morrigan2575 February 18, 2015 Author Share February 18, 2015 I did see that PB was doing press. I think Inside the Tube was looking for Qs. Link to comment
Genki February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 But is it a confirmed scene or just PB wanting to escape the character sucking vortex that is LL? I'm all for it if it is true, and at least it would tie him Closer to other characters, but I thougt from MG's tumblr account Mama Smoak's interaction will be very limited and definitely not with any new characters. Link to comment
foreverevolving February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 Is it possible that Mama Smoak will be in 3x19 too, and that is when she interacts with Lamce? Link to comment
Genki February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 Is it possible that Mama Smoak will be in 3x19 too, and that is when she interacts with Lamce? We can only hope. 1 Link to comment
pootlus February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 I want a "Quentin Lance and Donna Smoak solve crime in Las Vegas" spin-off. Sort of like Dresden Files but without the magic. THIS SO MUCH. Link to comment
somewhereother February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 (edited) Hmm, Does anyone know if the photo with Diggle & Oliver in hoodie is in the flashbacks or present? Diggle has no need for the full getup now he has no job and Oliver looks pretty shaggy. Edited February 18, 2015 by somewhereother Link to comment
apinknightmare February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 Hmm, Does anyone know if the photo with Diggle & Oliver in hoodie is in the flashbacks or present? Diggle has no need for the full getup now he has no job and Oliver looks pretty shaggy. It's a flashback. 1 Link to comment
somewhereother February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 So, probably stretching, but is Dig talking to his brother? Does that mean there is a connection b/w Argus & the Hive storyline and Oliver knows/was in on it? Looks like he is doing a bump & plant. Link to comment
kismet February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 OK, here's the full, combined list of rejected 318 titles from Twitter/Tumblr: Pact with the Devil Palmer Palpitations Panacea Pandemonium Pandora Panic Attack Paralyzed Paranoia Parbat Parenthood Partners Partnership Paternity Path Pathetic Pendulum Penumbra Perchance to Dream Perspective Phantom Stranger Phoenix Pinnacle of Truth Pit of Lazarus Pizza Para Poliver Platinum Platonic Playing with Fire Point Break Point of Change Post Crisis Post Mortem Posthumous Pray for Olicity Precious Predator Premonition Present Time Pressure Pretty Bird Priority of Life Proof of Death Proof of Life Propaganda Proposal Punishment Puppet Master Puppeteer Purgatory Pursuit of Happiness Pyromania I just scrolled through his tumblr and here are the rejected guesses: Pray for Olicity parenthood priority of life proof of life predator platinum paternity platonic palpitations posthumous proposal post crisis partnership pizza para poliver paralyzed parbat purgatory playing with fire post mortem partners pannic attack punishment penumbra Thanks for doing the leg work! I sent him Promises Broken via tumblr & twitter, but doubt he saw it or got it - havent seem him respond to it at all. So if Im right, at least Ill have said it here which will be enough for me. I doubt he'll ever reveal it any sooner than he needs too. He loves the attention he gets. Link to comment
wonderwall February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 Seriously guys. What about Prisoner? 1 Link to comment
BkWurm1 February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 Based on the new spoilers I just posted, Quentin and Donna will have scenes together. I want Quentin and Donna to make out so bad............ :p I used to be against it because then Oliver/Felicity would be quasi sister swapping again. But I can't deny that Quentin needs a new start away from his shitty daughter and his crappy city and Donna can give that to him :'). Also: I love knowing that since PB is a method actor you know he's spun out the whole possible romance in his mind. :D I did see that PB was doing press. I think Inside the Tube was looking for Qs. Is he just doing one interview or is this some kind of a tour?? Cause, crap, he doesn't normally get to do tours, does he? Suddenly I think they really are going to kill him. I guess I'm going to cross my fingers and hope for the Lazarus Pit. Seriously guys. What about Prisoner? Needs 12 letters to fit the blacked out space on the script, so I'd say too short. 1 Link to comment
kismet February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 This show has killed too many people so far, so I find it hard to believe that an "epic" "game changer" would be a death this season. Or at least a death that stays permanent. It might be like S1 where they kill MM & bring him back later in the seasons. Personally, I think that there is more likely a resurrection plot coming than a redemption plot. 1 Link to comment
apinknightmare February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 (edited) In the video SA posted on his Facebook today, he's got his Arrow getup on, so he at least gets out of jail at some point (if he's ever actually in there, haha). Or maybe they're not shooting in order, so never mind. Edited February 18, 2015 by apinknightmare Link to comment
Morrigan2575 February 18, 2015 Author Share February 18, 2015 I love knowing that since PB is a method actor you know he's spun out the whole possible romance in his mind. :D Is he just doing one interview or is this some kind of a tour?? Cause, crap, he doesn't normally get to do tours, does he? Suddenly I think they really are going to kill him. I guess I'm going to cross my fingers and hope for the Lazarus Pit. Needs 12 letters to fit the blacked out space on the script, so I'd say too short. at least 2, GATV and Inside the Tube...probably a conference call.He's done press before, Upfronts 2014, SDCC 2014 and he did press twice last year once for 203 and once laterin the season, don't remember which episode. Link to comment
foreverevolving February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 I have a feeling Cisco and Joe in SS is connected to their current Flash storyline, last week they were looking into the murder of Barry's mom and found some evidence that Barry and the reverse flash were there that night, tonight Joe told Barry about their findings. In both episodes it was heavily implied that Joe suspects Wells to be somehow involved (due to some past investigation he did on Wells and cop intuition i suppose). Also tonight we got to see Wells in the yellow suit. So I think it may be connected to that. It will be interesting to see what it is. Link to comment
statsgirl February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 Seriously guys. What about Prisoner? Needs 12 letters to fit the blacked out space on the script, so I'd say too short. What about "The Prisoner"? 12 letters, and could be a nod to the Patrick McGoohan TV series. Link to comment
BkWurm1 February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 What about "The Prisoner"? 12 letters, and could be a nod to the Patrick McGoohan TV series. Starts with P. Otherwise, good suggestion. Link to comment
apinknightmare February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 (edited) I can't figure out how to link it, but MG just retweeted a producer's preview of The Return - and yeah, Oliver definitely didn't let Slade out, haha. And he definitely seems horrified when he realizes he's on the loose. Which makes me wonder what exactly he thought Malcolm was playing at when he sent him and Thea to Lian Yu? Oh Oliver, forever the dumbass. Edited February 18, 2015 by apinknightmare 4 Link to comment
statsgirl February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 (edited) It's here on his twitter https://twitter.com/mguggenheim Or here https://amp.twimg.com/v/1cfcc251-2a33-4ea6-aa2f-837380fec787 If this is supposed to be "a love letter to the fans", I think I'd prefer hate mail. Edited February 18, 2015 by statsgirl Link to comment
apinknightmare February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 I deserve the right to change my mind about this tomorrow, but I'm actually really excited for this episode. It looks more interesting to me then the other flashback episodes at least. 5 Link to comment
wonderwall February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 I deserve the right to change my mind about this tomorrow, but I'm actually really excited for this episode. It looks more interesting to me then the other flashback episodes at least. Me too! I really hope the 'internet breaking' scene MG was talking about regarding Felicity is her punching Malcolm in the face. That would be SO SATISFYING. 1 Link to comment
jay741982 February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 Me too! I really hope the 'internet breaking' scene MG was talking about regarding Felicity is her punching Malcolm in the face. That would be SO SATISFYING. My god Felicity punching Malcolm would be awesome! Since MG lives to piss people off she probably coins "Black Canary" or something he thinks is oh so clever It's here on his twitter https://twitter.com/mguggenheim Or here https://amp.twimg.com/v/1cfcc251-2a33-4ea6-aa2f-837380fec787 If this is supposed to be "a love letter to the fans", I think I'd prefer hate mail. For real a "love letter to the fans" would be Orginal Team Arrow on the island dealing with Slade. We could get a Slade/Diggle fight. Slade terrorising Felicity(For Drama), with Oliver saving her OR her getting the drop on Slade again Link to comment
Hook75 February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 I deserve the right to change my mind about this tomorrow, but I'm actually really excited for this episode. It looks more interesting to me then the other flashback episodes at least. Me too. Lets see: Oliver centeric epe, no TA bitching at Oliver, Hopefully not alot of Fakanary, NO Ray, REAL conversations with the only woman these days who seems to care about HIM unconditionally, Slade....sounds like a good one! 2 Link to comment
Guest February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 I've just seen on tumblr that the recurring Doctor who treated Oliver in hospital for his knee, and also a pregnant Lyla in 301 is back in episode 318. I don't know if it's accurate but the actor info adds up on IMDB. Link to comment
Guest February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 (edited) I can't seem to link it on my iPad for some reason but I've just seen bts pictures on Twitter of Arrow, BC and Arsenal out in the field (they're filming 318 still I guess) and Diggle is in the van. He is literally still the driver. I give up. Edited February 18, 2015 by Guest Link to comment
ban1o February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 I can't seem to link it on my iPad for some reason but I've just seen bts pictures on Twitter of Arrow, BC and Arsenal out in the field (they're filming 318 still I guess) and Diggle is in the van. He is literally still the driver. I give up. whose twitter page? Link to comment
wonderwall February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 Ughhhhhh and here I thought after the massive amount of complaints, that MG would fix it. Smh. Link to comment
ban1o February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 aah ok I found them. Will post them in spoilers Link to comment
Morrigan2575 February 18, 2015 Author Share February 18, 2015 Just added the link with the BTS pics of Team Arrow abd their Black Driver to the spoiler thread. 4 Link to comment
Velocity23 February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 Buckles in that photo just makes me laugh. 3 Link to comment
apinknightmare February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 (edited) I'd say I can't believe it, but I can. Hopefully that look on all their faces is due to Diggle peacing out and fleeing the premises. And sadly there's no Lance/Mama Smoak interaction in 3x18 - PB quashed that in the interview posted in Spoilers Only. Edited February 18, 2015 by apinknightmare 1 Link to comment
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