Spoiler Discussion Thread

[statsgirl]

I think it would be poetic justice if Laurel ends up fighting Quentin.

 

stillmychuck asked:
MG: Brandon Routh will be in 16 episodes or that increased?

I believe he’ll be in a total of 18.

 

If you can trust him.

Ray missed two in the fall IIRC. That means he'll still be around for ep 20.  Probably 23 too, as its the big finale.

I wonder if the Flash episode 1x18 counts as one of them.

 

itsolicityqueen asked:
What's your favorite scene so far this season??

Honestly?  The “I don’t want to be a woman you love” in 3x12.

If he liked it so much, it's probably Oliver/Felicity.  I can't see him saying that about a Ray/Felicity scene, and it's the episode where Oliver gets back.

 

I guess we get it at the end of the episode if Felicity is in the van so Oliver doesn't see her when he picks up his Arrow gear.

Edited January 29, 2015 by statsgirl

[Carrie Ann]

Yep, I think it's for sure an O/F scene, because I think earlier this week he called the scene with the two of them his favorite scene coming up, and now he's saying this. So, yay.

[apinknightmare]

Yep, I think it's for sure an O/F scene, because I think earlier this week he called the scene with the two of them his favorite scene coming up, and now he's saying this. So, yay.

 

Okay, I'm officially out of denial now, bleh. 

 

And I can't tell what I'm hoping for more - Oliver regression and yet again telling her he can't be with her and her losing it or Felicity just having enough and (hold on, I need a sec)

 

 

 

 

 

falling for Ray.

 

 

I think that dream sequence was intended to let us know that he's still afraid of being Oliver -  I mean, damn, Felicity was in the position of being the stabber with that sword. And it seems obvious that he's gonna team up with Malcolm, so...rightfully she'd be pissed. I'm just expecting Felicity to do something out of character to make it all work, and I haaaaaaaaate this feeeeeeeling. 

[dtissagirl]

Do you guys think that the color of the dress Felicity is wearing in those wedding photos means something. Usually I never pay attention to the clothes and all that stuff because I think it is just a costume department choice (she looks great in pink, let's do that) but where I am from you are told not to wear red to a wedding because it is such a vibrant color that it might distract from the bride. Therefore I am torn on whether it is an actual choice that they made to have her wear red or they just thought she looked good in the dress. (Because she does)

 

Maybe now that Guggentroll got news about the red pen/blue pen Matrix theory that's going around on Tumblr, he went to the costumes department and told them to dress Felicity in red in her date with Crazy Eyes at the wedding just for kicks.

[jay741982]

It's unreal how Much MG don't get it when it comes to Olicity and it's depressing how it seems they think this show ain't dark enough. I hate All this Angst!! Let there be some happiness for Oliver and Felicity Raylicity is cringeworthy why do I detest it so much?

[dtissagirl]

@tv-echo, I wanna start this by THANKING YOU DEARLY for combing through MG's trollings on Tumblr and keeping us posted here. It's so very much appreciated, you're my hero! <3

 

And now I'm gonna be terrible to everyone else, I apologize in advance.

 

Asked if we'll be mad at the end of 3x12 like we were mad at the end of 2x13, MG says: "Probably madder."

 

 

So maybe Felicity goes to Crazy Eyes and say "I don't want to be a woman you love, I want to be a woman you fuck because I feel nothing, and I wanna feel something", Buffy and Spike style.

 

WOO, it's gonna be awesome! /sarcasm font

[apinknightmare]

 

-- Asked if Mama Smoak will interact with Thea or with other characters in episode 18, MG says: "Unfortunately not.  You’ll see why."

 

Did he ever say if this ep takes place in Starling? Because this makes me think it's Mama Smoak who's injured/ill, but why would she be in a hospital in Starling, unless something happens to her when she comes for a visit?

[jay741982]

@tv-echo, I wanna start this by THANKING YOU DEARLY for combing through MG's trollings on Tumblr and keeping us posted here. It's so very much appreciated, you're my hero! <3

 

And now I'm gonna be terrible to everyone else, I apologize in advance.

 

 

So maybe Felicity goes to Crazy Eyes and say "I don't want to be a woman you love, I want to be a woman you fuck because I feel nothing, and I wanna feel something", Buffy and Spike style.

 

WOO, it's gonna be awesome! /sarcasm font

Does he think it's funny to say stuff like "You'll be throwing DVDS at the TV Mad!!" Ugh I can't stand him I'm gonna hate this. She is probably is gonna Fuck Ray. GROSS. I love how he says we are gonna love the Angst. How the fuck would he know

[apinknightmare]

Also, I need help figuring out the Slade thing. He's gonna be incensed at Felicity for what she did, but they're not going to interact at all? But Oliver is "horrified" when he faces Slade again. And there were pics of Willa (and Malcolm? I can't remember) in his cell. So, does Slade orchestrate some kind of vengeance against Felicity for what she did from his cell? Is that why they don't interact, because he's still locked up? Is "The Return" Oliver going back to the island to find out what he did with her? And how do Malcolm and Thea come into play? Do they somehow do something with the thing and the whatzit? Can't figure it out.

[looptab]

Also, I need help figuring out the Slade thing. He's gonna be incensed at Felicity for what she did, but they're not going to interact at all? But Oliver is "horrified" when he faces Slade again. And there were pics of Willa (and Malcolm? I can't remember) in his cell. So, does Slade orchestrate some kind of vengeance against Felicity for what she did from his cell? Is that why they don't interact, because he's still locked up? Is "The Return" Oliver going back to the island to find out what he did with her? And how do Malcolm and Thea come into play? Do they somehow do something with the thing and the whatzit? Can't figure it out.

Yeah, me neither. What we have is surely confusing. This better be good, though.  I miss Slade (and MB's voice) :D

[dtissagirl]

The "horrified" thing did make me think it has to do with Thea, yeah. I mean, why would Thea want to have anything to do with the guy who killed her mother? Unless the mind-controlling drugs are back in use?

[apinknightmare]

The "horrified" thing did make me think it has to do with Thea, yeah. I mean, why would Thea want to have anything to do with the guy who killed her mother? Unless the mind-controlling drugs are back in use?

 

I'm just kind of confused as to what's going on. Do they go see him for some reason? What information could Slade have that Thea could need? And what would any of that have to do with Felicity? Unless Oliver also goes to Lian Yu to talk to Slade (to see what's up with Thea) and Felicity gets brought up? But what about any of this would horrify Oliver about seeing Slade again? Does Malcolm break him out for something? Does not compute - maybe it'll make sense after the next couple of eps. But probably not, given the way things are going.

[Sunshine]

I am trying to figure out how bad the scene could be at the end of 3x12. Felicity is mad as hell. We get a "I don't want to be a woman you love". Oliver's response is oops?!

Edited January 29, 2015 by Sunshine

[Jessie2009]

Mg said that Oliver's reaction at the end of 312 is "oops". In the promo it looks like felicity finds out he's alive because he shows up to the fight and since everyone looks to be at the fight, she'll probably be the last to see him. Is she mad at him for that or does he team up with Malcolm and that's why she's pissed.

[apinknightmare]

Mg said that Oliver's reaction at the end of 312 is "oops". In the promo it looks like felicity finds out he's alive because he shows up to the fight and since everyone looks to be at the fight, she'll probably be the last to see him. Is she mad at him for that or does he team up with Malcolm and that's why she's pissed.

 

MG said "I'm gonna go with yes" when asked if someone came between them, so Oliver must do some dumb shit like teaming up with Malcolm or...I don't know what.

[Chiny11]

Well, one thing is for sure... Arrow writers are NOT written as being true to their character.

[jay741982]

Would that really have People throwing their DVDS at the screen as MG so put it? It would be stupid but I remembered Laurel and Roy want to bring Malcolm in to defeat Brick but Felicity is rightfully against it with Diggle in the middle.

[apinknightmare]

Would that really have People throwing their DVDS at the screen as MG so put it? It would be stupid but I remembered Laurel and Roy want to bring Malcolm in to defeat Brick but Felicity is rightfully against it with Diggle in the middle.

 

Well, MG isn't the best at gauging audience reaction, clearly, given he didn't think people would be upset about Laurel pretending to be Sara on two separate occasions to fool her poor father.

[dtissagirl]

Maybe Oliver shows up at the foundry in the end, Felicity hugs him, and then, before he even says anything, all of the stuff she's been clearly bottling up just explodes out of her, and she goes on a 5 minute rant. "I don't want to be a woman you love" fits in there somehow where this is not the worst line of dialog ever written, and finally she just up and leaves. And then Oliver's all oops?

 

I'm trying to come up with less awful scenarios, but it's HARD, you guys.

[jay741982]

Well, MG isn't the best at gauging audience reaction, clearly, given he didn't think people would be upset about Laurel pretending to be Sara on two separate occasions to fool her poor father.

LOL right you are about that! I can't believe he thought people wouldn't see that as horrible and having Dig Felicity and Roy help her with that. I understand that it isn't the best time with the city being terrorized but that was bad

Maybe Oliver shows up at the foundry in the end, Felicity hugs him, and then, before he even says anything, all of the stuff she's been clearly bottling up just explodes out of her, and she goes on a 5 minute rant. "I don't want to be a woman you love" fits in there somehow where this is not the worst line of dialog ever written, and finally she just up and leaves. And then Oliver's all oops?

 

I'm trying to come up with less awful scenarios, but it's HARD, you guys.

I can kinda see that. I think she will say she loves him but what if she starts thinking she don't deserve HIM? "I don't want to be a woman you love cause I don't deserve it?"

[looptab]

MG said also she would be in the van..so Oliver joins mid fight and then doesn't come back with them? Maybe he goes to see Thea and joins them later in the Foundry?

[apinknightmare]

Chances we're getting the Ray lunge at the end of 3x12 and that's what's going to make people angry? He's not going to be the one who comes between O/F, but maybe she'll run to him after she shoots Oliver down.

Edited January 29, 2015 by apinknightmare

[tv echo]

-- Asked if our reaction to the angst in 312 will be 'yelling and throwing things at the TV angst' or 'throwing out all my DVDs because it's all ruined angst', MG says: "Throwing all your DVDs at your TV angst."

To me, this sounds like we'll feel like we wasted our money buying the Arrow DVDs because everything we've invested in the show for the past two plus seasons won't pay off.  It'll be like a permanent anger and not a temporary anger.

Edited January 29, 2015 by tv echo

[jay741982]

Chances we're getting the Ray lunge at the end of 3x12 and that's what's going to make people angry? He's not going to be the one who comes between O/F, but maybe she'll run to him after she shoots Oliver down.

Well MG said she's not gonna rush into a relationship with Ray so I don't know. UGH I want Oliver to get to see her Nekkid not Ray Dammit lol

To me, this sounds like we'll feel like we wasted our money buying the Arrow DVDs because everything we've invested in the show for the past two plus seasons won't pay off.  It'll be like a permanent anger and not a temporary anger.

THIS!! This isn't good Angst if you joyfully piss off Shippers of most popular pairing

Also MG said "ill do my best" to shippers of Gross Raylicity about keeping BR. JUST NO

[dtissagirl]

Chances we're getting the Ray lunge at the end of 3x12 and that's what's going to make people angry? He's not going to be the one who comes between O/F, but maybe she'll run to him after she shoots Oliver down.

 

 

Yeah, I'm back to expecting a lunge at the end of 312 too. Guggenheim has been a bit too much specific about it being the Oliver/Felicity fans that are gonna be mad at him.

[jay741982]

So mad we are all gonna hurl DVDS at the screen saying it's all runied! OMG I'm gonna dread next week. That's an awesome way to start Raylicity by the way. It will be obvious if she screws him it's cause she's pissed about Oliver! Not OOC or anything "Sarcasm"

Yeah, I'm back to expecting a lunge at the end of 312 too. Guggenheim has been a bit too much specific about it being the Oliver/Felicity fans that are gonna be mad at him.

He lives to piss us shippers off never mind he's writing people out of character and if she screws Ray next week that could damage Olicity which he seems to like

After watching the longer trailer for next week I'm convinced that Felicity finds out he's back watching on TV. It clearly says "The Arrow Makes a Return" and she looks shocked

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, I'm back to expecting a lunge at the end of 312 too. Guggenheim has been a bit too much specific about it being the Oliver/Felicity fans that are gonna be mad at him.

 

I guess he figures that we all expect them to get together when Oliver gets back, so he assumes we'll be really angry about whatever happens that results in them not pursuing a relationship, so maybe there isn't a lunge and that anger is just supposed to be over Felicity telling Oliver she doesn't want to be a woman he loves or whatever. Since MG said it's not Ray that's coming between them I guess I don't see how bad it could be, unless she tells him she doesn't love him. 

[jay741982]

I guess he figures that we all expect them to get together when Oliver gets back, so he assumes we'll be really angry about whatever happens that results in them not pursuing a relationship, so maybe there isn't a lunge and that anger is just supposed to be over Felicity telling Oliver she doesn't want to be a woman he loves or whatever. Since MG said it's not Ray that's coming between them I guess I don't see how bad it could be, unless she tells him she doesn't love him.

That would suck for Oliver but us fans know better!

[dtissagirl]

I've been thinking about the external factors more than the in story ones, I guess. I know MG has said "that's not what we're doing" with regards to Felicity/Creeper, but wasn't there a caveat that it wouldn't be happening *while Oliver was dead*? Well, by the end of 312 not only he won't be, but Felicity will also be aware of this. So MG's denial is moot at that point.

 

They have the next 4 episodes to get Felicity and Crazy Eyes in a romantic relationship, because per TV law, the Temporary Cockblocking Romance has to start during Feb Sweeps, and be done before May Sweeps. Felicity and Crazy Eyes are most likely dating when he's her date to Dig and Lyla's wedding, and they go to Central City Flash 118. And then whatever happens that makes Donna Smoak be in a hospital in 318 is probably the beginning of the end in their relationship. Maybe Donna sees Felicity is clearly replacing Oliver with Creeps, or maybe something happens to Donna [or Felicity herself] that makes Felicity realize she's wasting her time. Or maybe it is the Dawson anti-prom and Creeps realize he's never been in the game in the first place.

 

But it all fits not only the traditional ways in which television deals with temporary romantic storytelling that stalls the main romance arc, but it also mirrors what the producers think worked last season with Oliver and Sara.

Edited January 29, 2015 by dancingnancy

[dtissagirl]

I'm also wondering if Oliver is gonna sublimate his feelings for Felicity being with Creeps by trying to get Queen Consolidated back. It would explain why would Oliver have "a ton" of scenes with Crazy Eyes, and it would also touch on the Felicity = QC parallel they started in 301, and then never ever implied again,

Edited January 29, 2015 by dancingnancy

[jay741982]

I'm also wondering if Oliver is gonna sublimate his feelings for Felicity being with Creeps by trying to get Queen Consolidated back. It would explain why would Oliver have "a ton" of scenes with Crazy Eyes, and it would also touch on the Felicity = QC parallel they stated in 301, and then never ever implied again,

You may be on to something! In Season 2 that was a big part of him being just Oliver Queen. He would work hard to get QC back to show his lady love he wants a future with her and as both Oliver Queen and The Arrow.

[Danny Franks]

Those Guggenheim spoilers. Yeah, Oliver Queen, the little rich boy with the best upbringing money can buy, who became a playboy and womaniser at an apparently incredibly young age, can't dance. Right. If you can't hear the sarcasm dripping off my words, then you're as tone deaf as Guggenheim is.

[Chasity]

Those Guggenheim spoilers. Yeah, Oliver Queen, the little rich boy with the best upbringing money can buy, who became a playboy and womaniser at an apparently incredibly young age, can't dance. Right. If you can't hear the sarcasm dripping off my words, then you're as tone deaf as Guggenheim is.

I think it's silly that he can't dance as well, but it's something they established back in season 1.

[dtissagirl]

Those Guggenheim spoilers. Yeah, Oliver Queen, the little rich boy with the best upbringing money can buy, who became a playboy and womaniser at an apparently incredibly young age, can't dance. Right. If you can't hear the sarcasm dripping off my words, then you're as tone deaf as Guggenheim is.

 

Hee! I think it's more likely Stephen Amell went I WON'T DANCE AND YOU CAN'T MAKE ME, SUCKERS, and they've decided to let the poor fella win THAT fight.

[apinknightmare]

I'm also wondering if Oliver is gonna sublimate his feelings for Felicity being with Creeps by trying to get Queen Consolidated back. It would explain why would Oliver have "a ton" of scenes with Crazy Eyes, and it would also touch on the Felicity = QC parallel they started in 301, and then never ever implied again,

 

I wonder what Oliver could possibly do to get QC back? Does he get some dirt on Ray or something? Because I can't imagine how he'd manage to do it unless he gets his business degree in the next few eps, which I suppose is totes possible.

Edited January 29, 2015 by apinknightmare

[catrox14]

Okay, here is my crack theory for the day.

 

Could much of this 3 episode arc where every one is acting out of character or even most of the first half of this season be revealed to be all in Oliver's mind as hallucinations after he is killed by Ra's Al Ghul and is recovering? Like maybe The Climb actually took place before anything else happened? That maybe Oliver was dosed by Malcolm with those drugs he gave Thea.

 

Or that this is just a complete  Vertigo hallucination that he's been having all this time and he wakes up still fighting Vertigo and that all of this helps him decide he can be both the Arrow and Oliver Queen?  

 

Maybe we find out that Oliver went missing because of Vertigo and maybe once Oliver gets back to Starling City, Sara is actually alive, Laurel is just a DA, Felicity and Oliver never went out on a date because he never asked her thus that is why MG is saying Olicity fans will be more mad than they have ever been.

 

There is a huge part of me that really hopes there is a reset.  Just a thought.           

Edited January 29, 2015 by catrox14

[Password]

I wonder what Oliver could possibly do to get QC back? Does he get some dirt on Ray or something? Because I can't imagine how he'd manage to do it unless he gets his business degree in the next few eps, which I suppose is totes possible.

I've been wondering this exact thing. Is QC even on his mind? It's why I'd prefer Oliver return with a more Carpet Diem attitude in ep 12. Jbuffyangel gave an interesting take on how it could play out with Palmer Tech (which included dirt on Ray) but that would require Walter returning and a fire being lit under Oliver's behind. Also plans his father had to present to the board.

At this point I'm just focusing on Oliver and ignoring all else. I so want him to succeed.

[apinknightmare]

Remember when there was talk on the board about Laurel dressing up to fool Lance and how we didn't think they'd be so stupid to have her do that? Could we ever have fathomed that not only would she let Quentin see her to fool him, but that she'd also talk to him using Sara's voice? 

 

What sweet summer children we were. Ah, the good 'ol days. 

[blixie]

What bugs me about Guggenheim's saying he didn't anticipate this is that KC  (who I thought was overall quite good in this episode) really played that scene of using Sara's voice like it was WRONG and she was gonna throw up. Indeed they ALL looked guilty as sin while that was happening. So no, you don't get to act like it's surprising people found it fucked up and wrong. So yeah I'm now really RILLY hoping Caity is lying and Sara is headed for a Lazarus pit. I think it's unlikely, but dammit I need either her or Tommy to emerge from one to make me keep caring about all the thingses that are happening Guggentroll.

Edited January 29, 2015 by blixie

[dtissagirl]

I think we gotta start a list of outrageous plots we dismissed because they sounded too ridiculous, and it turned out they weren't. The Bitterness Thread can rank them from worst to WORST.

 

And then we'll add @catrox14's theory that this is all a really bad reaction to being drugged, to the list by the time the finale airs, probably. :)

 

Also, yeah, no idea how would Oliver get QC back. I'm just trying to figure out how he's gonna have a ton of scenes with Creeps.

[apinknightmare]

Also, yeah, no idea how would Oliver get QC back. I'm just trying to figure out how he's gonna have a ton of scenes with Creeps.

 

That's gotta be it, doesn't it? Unless Ray gets in on the Arrow secret sooner than later.

[Starfish35]

I think we gotta start a list of outrageous plots we dismissed because they sounded too ridiculous, and it turned out they weren't. The Bitterness Thread can rank them from worst to WORST.

List started. ;)

[jay741982]

I really think some of those scenes will be a jealous Oliver( which I wouldn't mind I want him fighting for Felicity)

[dtissagirl]

List started. ;)

 

BLESS. <3

[apinknightmare]

List started. ;)

 

I hope my belief that SARA LIIIIIIIIVES makes that ridiculous list.

[Belinea]

The only thing that would really make me throw the DVD set at the TV is Ray and Felicity having sexy times. That I definitely could not stand. It is just that up until this point she was all about being Oliver's girl and then he is back and she goes for Ray...She probably develops feelings as fast as Laurel develops skills. I get that Ray is a nice guy but she just lost someone she clearly cared about ( and I will be surprised if she admits she loves Oliver in 3x12. I believe at this point that Oliver actually loves her more but maybe I am just pissed off at the moment). 

 

And I do believe that Ray will be in the Arrow cave before 3x17. I think it won't take him long. I believe the producers are so happy they got BR so that they use him as much as the storyline allows them to. Even if it is not really the best storyline. That is in now way the actor's fault (who seems lovely) but maybe the producers should focus more on good stories instead of playing favorites. 

 

Has anyone asked MG if Oliver will ever get a happy moment after 3x13 or if the EPs just want him to stay dark and broody without joy in his life?

Edited January 29, 2015 by Belinea

[jay741982]

See the evdience is there that Felicity loves Oliver a lot but the writing was bad last night and now there are people who think she don't love Oliver. I don't know MG said RAY don't come between them. Im scared they are going to have Felicity hook up with Ray cause he's safe and they will make it obvious she don't love him. Or it will seem like she's making Ollie Jealous which BLECH

[apinknightmare]

So how does this Quentin thing play out? 

 

Is Laurel going to keep going to him with that voice modulator? Because she's going to keep dressing up like Sara; he's going to keep seeing her/hearing that she's around. How long does she think she can get away with this? How long will she get away with it? Is Sin gonna get brought into the station next ep and hear something about the Canary and say, "nah, that ain't her." Will that ping Quentin's radar and will he demand to see her? Is that when Laurel calls Nyssa for advice? There's a reason she goes to Nyssa for help. Is the solution going to be Lazarus Pitting her? Is Sara actually in Canaries, not just as a hallucination? Surely they wouldn't resurrect her and then, what? Have her die again? Have her go crazy and have to go off to some LoA reprogramming camp? 

 

Is it going to be as simple as Nyssa telling Laurel to tell Quentin the damn truth? That can't be it. 

Edited January 29, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Belinea]

Well, either he will find out soon and then be mad only to come around by the end of the season or he will find out in the last few episodes and he will be mad in S4. 

 

Or maybe the writers will make him totally cool with it because Laurel is so  awesome. Or she will now be both sisters whenever Quentin is around.

It really is an unfortunate storyline that really doesn't make Laurel look good. Maybe they should have solved that problem first. Or maybe it is just like the Isabelle storyline, they introduced her and didn't know how to go from there. Maybe that is the same here. They thought good idea and know don't really know how to get out of it. I do however believe that storyline has a point. I don't know what it could be, but it has a point.

[dtissagirl]

I was thinking Sin is gonna have to do with Laurel finding out that Thea killed Sara, but I hadn't thought about her playing a part in Quentin finding out.

 

But KC tied telling Quentin to Laurel talking to Nyssa, so I guess it depends on WHEN is that happening. Is Katrina Law in any episode before 315? I honestly don't remember if we got word of that.