Spoiler Discussion Thread

[SonofaBiscuit]

I looked at that article from that panel and Guggenheim never actually says olicity fans are going to be mad at him at the end of 312. He says fans will be mad on twitter but never specifically that it would be olicity, so I'm not ruling out yet that everyone but felicity decides to work with Merlyn and she leaves the team because of it and that's why felicity is mad as hell.

 

I think that Guggenheim frequently fails when it comes to predicting how storylines are going to go over with the audience, because if Felicity leaves the team, I'm not going be upset by it.  It would actually make quite a lot of sense to me if everyone is insisting on working with Malcolm and she's like "Nope.  Goodbye, I'm not doing this."  It's only going to be temporary, and honestly it's probably some plot-driven set up for Canaries.  

Edited January 20, 2015 by SonofaBiscuit

[wonderwall]

From the new clip, I like that line from Laurel. But it's really badly delivered. I wish KC had more facial movement because she seems to have the same expression 24/7

[Sunshine]

Maybe Slade is as smart as Natalie Abrams and figures out that Oliver just sacrificed Felicity so he could save Laurel.

You know what is sad about this? I have read several posts elsewhere where some fans believe he sacrificed Felicity to save Laurel and nothing more. The truth is he sacrificed Felicity to take Slade down to save Starling City. Saving Laurel was just a by product-good or bad depending on your view.

[Velocity23]

Anybody has the link for the oh laurel gif? I think i am gonna be needing it.

[wonderwall]

You know what is sad about this? I have read several posts elsewhere where some fans believe he sacrificed Felicity to save Laurel and nothing more. The truth is he sacrificed Felicity to take Slade down to save Starling City. Saving Laurel was just a by product-good or bad depending on your view.

Those poor souls. They're missing pretty much the entire point of that ruse. 

[Password]

That clip didn't tell me much. I'd rather see it in its entirety before saying "Dammit Laurel..."

The fact that she's looking at Felicity whilst saying it may just be for that 5 seconds to be fair. Ep 10 just needs to come now.

[apinknightmare]

You know what is sad about this? I have read several posts elsewhere where some fans believe he sacrificed Felicity to save Laurel and nothing more. The truth is he sacrificed Felicity to take Slade down to save Starling City. Saving Laurel was just a by product-good or bad depending on your view.

The only problem with that is that before Oliver knew Slade had Felicity (and that his plan was in motion) and Slade said he wanted Oliver to meet him or he was going to kill "her" (Laurel, as far as Oliver knew) and Oliver said, "you do what you have to, I'm done playing your games" doesn't exactly give off true love warm and fuzzies.

And Slade has no reason to believe that the "I love you" was a ruse. For all he knew Oliver planted a syringe on his girlfriend -I mean, Slade saw him grab Felicity and tumble over the railing to protect her when he infiltrated (if we can even call it that-the place has an open door) the foundry.

[wonderwall]

Anybody has the link for the oh laurel gif? I think i am gonna be needing it.

Here ya go

 

[dtissagirl]

If Ra's didn't care about Sara, I doubt he cares two hoots about Thea.  And while I can see him joining forces with Oliver to bring down Merlyn, the whole Ra's vs Oliver started with Oliver refusing to let Ra's kill Merlyn so I doubt Ra's would trust Oliver now.

 

I don't think Ra's has to feel anything about Thea, good or bad. If Oliver tells Ra's he wants to take down Malcolm [same as Ra's], and that his motivation is Thea, for whom he'd do anything -- including dying for her -- Ra's can not care for Thea, but see that Oliver would be a good ally against Merlyn.

 

Obviously no idea if any of this is gonna go like it, and I know Barrowman keeps going on and on about how Malcolm thinks of Oliver as a son. But imo Oliver thinks of Malcolm as a worm to be squashed. The LoA would be Oliver's best chance at getting rid of Malcolm.

 

And if any of this comes true, of course Ra's is gonna have a ~secret agenda underneath it all because this show likes convoluted more than anything.

[looptab]

The clip..I didn't hate it. I think I hate more the fact that it was nice, down in the foundry, and those days are forever gone.

So Laurel knows about Oliver and Felicity?

[Velocity23]

Thank you @wonderwall you are a life-saver!

[ban1o]

Mm don't see anything wrong with the clip. It looks like it is cut weirdly though.

[wonderwall]

Mm don't see anything wrong with the clip. It looks like it is cut weirdly though.

Hopefully those lines are Laurel in shock and denial because that's her "Oliver is the Arrow" shock face lmao I want to like Laurel (I suppose I still haven't lost hope because i'm a sucker like that) so hopefully KC delivers :)

 

But like I said, I liked that line to Felicity. It's good for Laurel to be reassuring. But it also seems like this is before Malcolm confirms Oliver is 'dead'... did anyone else notice that? Because Diggle doesn't say Oliver's dead, he says that htey haven't heard from Oliver. 

Edited January 20, 2015 by wonderwall

[Chaser]

It was an odd cut. I wonder why they needed to splice it together for a 10 sec clip. 

 

I would be really disappointed if Slade's return didn't feature a lot of Original Team Arrow action. Its the perfect set up for it. 

[ban1o]

Hopefully those lines are Laurel in shock and denial because that's her "Oliver is the Arrow" shock face lmao I want to like Laurel (I suppose I still haven't lost hope because i'm a sucker like that) so hopefully KC delivers :)

 

But like I said, I liked that line to Felicity. It's good for Laurel to be reassuring. But it also seems like this is before Malcolm confirms Oliver is 'dead'... did anyone else notice that? Because Diggle doesn't say Oliver's dead, he says that htey haven't heard from Oliver.

Yeah this is definitely before they know he is dead for sure and Larel has seen Oliver come back from impossible circumstances before so it makes sense that she'll feel confident he'll come back. It was a weird cut though i feel like something was said in between.

[wonderwall]

Yeah this is definitely before they know he is dead for sure and Larel has seen Oliver come back from impossible circumstances before so it makes sense that she'll feel confident he'll come back. It was a weird cut though i feel like something was said in between.

for sure. Because one moment she's in front of Diggle/Roy, the next she's next to Felicity. So I'm sure FElicity walks in at one point. 

[statsgirl]

It may be just the angle and Felicity was there all along.

 

I have to see the whole clip, and I know that we're supposed to get "Laurel is strong and kind giving Felicity support, but does Laurel have any idea of why Oliver is gone and where?  Unless she does, it just comes out as Laurel Clueless again.

 

So Laurel knows about Oliver and Felicity?

Not necessarily.  Felicity is a woman and Laurel knows she cried when Sara died.

Edited January 20, 2015 by statsgirl

[Ariah]

Laurel probably came down to the Foundry because she want the Arrow to do something for her (the courtroom scene from the Asian promo suggests it's her day-job related), only to find there's no Oliver. It does seem it happens before Merlyn returns with news.

 

(Also, i liked the comic book preview, with Dig being "more of a Glock person")

 

So Laurel knows about Oliver and Felicity?

Well, she was there when Slade was rambling about killing the woman Oliver loves while holding a sword to Felicity's throat. I think she got the picture.

 

Even if it was later addressed (to Laurel) as a ruse, I'm sure she had her doubts.

 

I think she knows (or feels it in her bones, ha!).

[statsgirl]

I can't imagine Laurel knowing that Felicity is the woman Oliver loves and not resenting it. Even if KC is saying that that's not where Laurel's head is at right now, she's always been possessive of her things.

[Genki]

I'm bummed that Team Flash don't seem to know as per GG's interview.

 

Also I hope the "Woman you love" comment is to Ray maybe Felicity leaves Team Arrow to join "Team Atom" and that is what angers the Fans. Laurel in Arrow Cave Felicity with Ray....grr!!!

 

Also I can't decided whether or not to watch 3.10, I know the "trilogy" is going to be tough and 3.14 seems to be the only spoilers that I'm looking forward to, but it been such a long hiatus and I miss Arrow, yet I know it will annoy the hell out of me, but Felicity emotions....(I'm as wishy washy as S1 Laurel!)

Edited January 20, 2015 by Genki

[statsgirl]

I'm going to watch because it's been a long wait, and because how they handle Felicity and Diggle will determine whether I watch 311- 313.

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

I refuse to support their stupidity of acting like they have the balls to kill their title character.

They don't have the balls to scrap the Black Canary plans or move forward with Olicity. Therefore my Nielsen house is dark to Arrow for the next month or so.

Edited January 20, 2015 by AnalyzeAndCritique

[Chiny11]

I refuse to support their stupidity of acting like they have the balls to kill their title character.

They doubt have the balls to scrap the Black Canary plans or move forward with Olicity. Therefore my Nielsen house is dark to Arrow for the next month or so.

You have a Nielsen box? Cool. :)

It's a box right? Please correct me if I am wrong.

I am also not watching live. Maybe I'll be back for episode 14 or 15 (and binge watch the ones I missed.)

Edited January 20, 2015 by Chiny11

[Genki]

You're and actual Nielsen house?

 

This makes me more excited than it probably should!!

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

Imagine the glee when the initial forms showed up and someone wanted to hear my thoughts on TV. I might be on a power trip. Lol.

[AyChihuahua]

I am pretty sure that the ratings for 3.10 will be quite good, as lots of people want to see what happens to Oliver.  However, LL as BC is only liked by a small-ish subset of viewers, mostly KC fans.  I don't see her bringing in any new viewers, and I'm pretty comfortable that that storyline, plus basically booting Oliver for several episodes, will go over poorly.  So, post-3.10, I am willing to bet ratings will be down quite a lot.  Which I genuinely hope leads them to cut her loose at the end of the season.  TV is a business, so I think it's entirely possible.

[Password]

I'm in for 3x10 but mostly I'm uninterested in what they have to offer after that.

If the episodes tank I'd hope something drastic is done.

[Happy Harpy]

I made the mistake to watch the Asian (I think?) trailer and Laurel lawyering was the exact same as S1 and S2. Honestly, I think you could insert the scene in any of the S1 episodes and it wouldn't be out of place. I saw no improvement whatsoever.

(I really want to stress that I don't question K.Cassidy's acting abilities in absolute; it's just her as Laurel that is a recipe for disaster on this particular show, and imho only).

And in spite of the PR machine now changing gears and remembering that Felicity exists without Ray and that Diggle exists at all, I still remember that not-new-nor-improved Laurel was announced "front and center" by M.Guggenheim. How can I believe, then, that Original Team Arrow members will be featured as much and as well they deserve, when they seem to be brought in the PR campaign only as damage control, and as potential props for the Sacred Cow? (And so, if the ratings don't suck, the producers can say that people luuurve Laurel. I wish they had the balls to promote Laurel only for a whole campaign duration, and see what happens. At least it would be clear one way or the other).

 

So I don't trust TPTB anymore and I don't even want or try to speculate because I can only be negative, then. But I sincerely hope for you guys and girls who still have enough faith in the show to watch it, and try to make sense out of its narrative, that it will have enough to entertain you. I cross my fingers so that you will be pleasantly surprised and that there will be as much sense and logic to the show, as there are to your speculations.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[Danny Franks]

If they tank, I'm sure those in charge will assign blame elsewhere. Couldn't be the fault of their glorious writing, or of Katie Cassidy's magnetic presence. But I doubt they will tank, because I've seen too many people who are just, 'what the hell, I'll keep watching and Oliver will come back', so while they'll drop, I doubt it'll be significant. Wish it was. I wish no one watched the next three episodes. Too late to organise a 'net-wide, twitter backed boycott?

[statsgirl]

 So, post-3.10, I am willing to bet ratings will be down quite a lot.  Which I genuinely hope leads them to cut her loose at the end of the season.  TV is a business, so I think it's entirely possible.

For them to cut her loose they would have to 1. admit they were wrong in both the actress and the writing; and 2. be willing to piss off all the Laurel/KC fans who have been hanging in since the pilot episode to see her as the Black Canary.

 

Still, it might be interesting to see how the episodes do (especially 311 since Oliver is rumored to be back in 312 and people will tune in for that), and how reviewers feel about them.

Edited January 20, 2015 by statsgirl

[SonofaBiscuit]

I wish people would either not tweet tomorrow, or try to trend things like #KillLaurelLance, but I'm mean like that.

[AyChihuahua]

 

For them to cut her loose they would have to 1. admit they were wrong in both the actress and the writing; and 2. be willing to piss off all the Laurel/KC fans who have been hanging in since the pilot episode to see her as the Black Canary.

The EPs have already admitted they've done a crap job writing her, multiple times.  And it's not just the EPs...I think it's entirely possible that the network might force their hand.  After all, the network is shelling out lead actress dollars for an actress whose presence actually reduces ratings.  The lowest-rated episodes have by and large been Laurel episodes.  That can't make the money guys happy, and art, schmart...at the end of the day it's all about the money.

[Belinea]

Judging by how the CW picked her for so many projects I am quite certain that they love her or she knows who to talk to at the CW. I am very skeptical that they'd ever get rid of her. Successful trilogy or not. (I do however think it is funny that the 'best' or most extensive media promotion KC has so far ever done is her current Twitter fight with John Legend's wife. That story seems to be everywhere all of sudden) 

[Morrigan2575]

I refuse to support their stupidity of acting like they have the balls to kill their title character.

They doubt have the balls to scrap the Black Canary plans or move forward with Olicity. Therefore my Nielsen house is dark to Arrow for the next month or so.

holy crap, I've now found two magically unicorns in the Arrow fandom and neither are happy with the show. LOL

[chaos is welcome]

The EPs have already admitted they've done a crap job writing her, multiple times.  And it's not just the EPs...I think it's entirely possible that the network might force their hand.  After all, the network is shelling out lead actress dollars for an actress whose presence actually reduces ratings.  The lowest-rated episodes have by and large been Laurel episodes.  That can't make the money guys happy, and art, schmart...at the end of the day it's all about the money.

The thing about these eps is that I TRULY think they expect the fans to forgive them the horrible writing when they suddenly slap leather and a mask on her.

I am just hoping and praying that people who have been outspoken against this arc (ahem, John Campea, ahem) that tpdb are actually aware of don't watch and go OH MY GOD THIS IS AWESOME, I WAS WRONG.  That will make me throw things at my television and possibly chuck my ipad out the window when I listen to the arrow aftershow.

 

ITA with Happy Harpy, its just been too much and it sucks the fun out. I won't watch anything by these guys live right now, including flash.  These were the only shows I watched live in 2014.

 

A #Bringbacksara or #youkilledthewrongsister or #laurelisnottheblackcanary would also suffice.

Edited January 20, 2015 by chaos is welcome

[AyChihuahua]

Here's John Campea's latest on the subject:

 

https://twitter.com/johncampea/status/555536256466427904

 

And they've not had a great track record re being so sure people would embrace Laurel.  I realize the majority of tv viewers just kind of coast through episodes, but they still have much lower ratings when she's featured, which means it's not just serious tv watchers who don't' like her story.  To compare, the EPs of Sleepy Hollow are always sure people will start loving Katrina, but they keep being wrong, and ratings keep going down.

 

For the record, while I hate Laurel, I'm furious about Insta-Canary.  If they had just shown her being into martial arts, etc., in the beginning and kept it as a backburner throughline, I'd be okay with it.  The office-bound attorney becoming a vigilante after some boxing lessons aspect infuriates me, and makes me wonder why I should be impressed with Oliver's skills anymore, if in this universe that's all it takes.

[Orion]

The thing about these eps is that I TRULY think they expect the fans to forgive them the horrible writing when they suddenly slap leather and a mask on her.

I am just hoping and praying that people who have been outspoken against this arc (ahem, John Campea, ahem) that tpdb are actually aware of don't watch and go OH MY GOD THIS IS AWESOME, I WAS WRONG.  That will make me throw things at my television and possibly chuck my ipad out the window when I listen to the arrow aftershow.

 

Which makes me wonder has that ever happened before? Has there ever been a character that the majority of a fandom and media has disliked or failed to become attached to in two years that has ever managed to turn it around?

 

I understand that from the EPs POV they are just going to keep saying, "Wait and see" and working their PR machines to see if they can make this arc successful, I've never been involved in fandoms before so I really don't know the answer but I'm curious if it has ever worked out.

[foreverevolving]

For them to cut her loose they would have to 1. admit they were wrong in both the actress and the writing; and 2. be willing to piss off all the Laurel/KC fans who have been hanging in since the pilot episode to see her as the Black Canary..

So all ten of them?

And Orion.. Nope. None that I personally can remember. Every hated character i can think of from the last 20 years was the "love to hate" kind where even if you hated the character you still kind of liked them cause you were able to see where they were coming from, or the actors were just doing such a wonderful job of not making the character into a caricature.

Again: casting, casting, casting. It's all about the right casting.

Edited January 20, 2015 by foreverevolving

[Jessie2009]

Does anyone remember what episode Guggenheim said we would find out how old felicity is?

[statsgirl]

Does anyone remember what episode Guggenheim said we would find out how old felicity is?

310, I think.  One of the early efforts to get us to watch Oliver-less episodes.

 

Which makes me wonder has that ever happened before? Has there ever been a character that the majority of a fandom and media has disliked or failed to become attached to in two years that has ever managed to turn it around?

 

Soap opera characters do it all the time but they have a over 200 hours more per season to make it work.  I can't think of drama show character, maybe Ray on ER?

 

I think it's always a problem when the EPs of a show love a character more than the audience does.  But Laurel is still better loved than Katrina on Sleepy Hollow, and unlike Sleepy Hollow (where Katrina seems to be tanking both Ichabod and the show), there is still lots more going on with Arrow than just Laurel.

 

MG seems to be aware of the problems, hence 'Laurel won't be a perfect Black Canary yet' stuff.  We'll see if having her on a learning curve, albeit speed-of-light, makes a difference. 

 

If nothing else, these next episodes will show us if it is just that Laurel wasn't wearing leather and fishnets yet, or if it's the character.

 

ETA  LOL at how much p.r. they've got SA doing now so that people will still tune in.  More even than at the start of the season.

So no Lazarus Pit?  And Roy gets more mention than Laurel at TV Line.

Edited January 20, 2015 by statsgirl

[Morrigan2575]

Which makes me wonder has that ever happened before? Has there ever been a character that the majority of a fandom and media has disliked or failed to become attached to in two years that has ever managed to turn it around?

 

I understand that from the EPs POV they are just going to keep saying, "Wait and see" and working their PR machines to see if they can make this arc successful, I've never been involved in fandoms before so I really don't know the answer but I'm curious if it has ever worked out.

I honestly can't think of one. I think there's a short window where it can turn around, within the same season, maybe very early S2 but after 2.5 seasons it's (IMO)almost impossible people become set in their opinions and unlikely to be swayed.

Maybe if they pulled the old wrestling move and changed her into a heel, going villain seems to have helped Ward on AoS.

[foreverevolving]

Huh. I always got he impression that Ray was pretty well liked by ER fans (at least judging by the fanfics!). I know Weaver was a controversial character, but she was in the "love to hate then grew to like/love" category thanks to the Laura doing an wonderful job with the character emotional beats; the same goes for Chen when she returned in season 6. Pratt was similar to Weaver. Oh!!! Speaking of Mekhi Phifer, his character on Torchwood is pretty much dislike by most viewers (I'm not one of them I actually liked him), stupid me, Torchwood - although it could be my personal opinion coloring my perspective - Gwen Cooper. I know she has a pretty big fan base, but from what I have seen she became less and less liked by the majority of fans, but i may be wrong, i personally don't like her, plus I only discovered the show a year and half ago so I'm fairly new.

[quarks]

Has there ever been a character that the majority of a fandom and media has disliked or failed to become attached to in two years that has ever managed to turn it around?

 

 

TV Guide to the rescue!

 

Their list of "TV Characters We Once Hated" includes Jaime Lannister (after three shorter seasons); Callie from Grey's Anatomy; Avery from Nashville, which has only been on for three seasons; Adam, from Girls; Lady Edith from Downton Abbey (which judging from the comments on this site may no longer be true this season, also, that turnaround started second season, not third, and Downton Abbey has shorter seasons); Pete, Mad Men; Katherine, Vampire Diaries; Morgan, The Mindy Project (um); Dylan, Bates Motel; Carl, The Walking Dead; Hayley, The Originals; Winston, New Girl (what?); Toby, Pretty Little Liars; Chang, Community; Mellie, Scandal (turnaround was in the second season, after a short first season.)

 

What I think we learned from this list is: a, TV Guide is only interested in current shows, b, I don't watch nearly as much television as I thought I did; c, wow, the CW has a habit of introducing unlikeable characters; d, to answer the question, at least recently, the characters who have gone from hated to loved have generally done so within the first 35 episodes of a show (including Game of Thrones, Downton Abbey and Girls with their shorter seasons), and/or been on shows where other characters are as bad or worse on an ethical level (Game of Thrones, Mad Men, Scandal.)

[statsgirl]

Huh. I always got he impression that Ray was pretty well liked by ER fans (at least judging by the fanfics!).

Not originally. He had to lose both his legs saving someone to be a liked character.  Maybe they could try that for Laurel, instead of having both Tommy and Sara (two characters more liked than she is) die for her.

 

I disagree with that TV Guide list.  I always liked Callie, even when she was being thrown under the bus to prop other characters (George, Arizona). I think there is a substantial pro-Edith audience with Downton Abbey (ref the posts here at previously.tv).   It's Mary I can't stand, and just when I started to like her a bit when she was married to Matthew, she's now back to being a major bitch to Edith).  She's another character that the show's creator/writer adores, like Laurel and Katrina, while Edith is a pre-ball Cinderella. 

 

I think for a previously disliked character to be liked, they have to do something noble and self-sacrificing.  Laurel learning to box so she can feel better when she beats up other people isn't going to do it.

Edited January 20, 2015 by statsgirl

[Orion]

I think it's always a problem when the EPs of a show love a character more than the audience does.  But Laurel is still better loved than Katrina on Sleepy Hollow, and unlike Sleepy Hollow (where Katrina seems to be tanking both Ichabod and the show), there is still lots more going on with Arrow than just Laurel.

 

SH's Katrina is a good comparison. I would agree with you that Laurel is better liked than Katrina this year, so far. From my experience with SH, last season Katrina was a bit annoying but this season they have pushed her to be "front and center" in multiple episodes and that is where the audience went from being mildly annoyed to out right hating that character. I see a lot of similarities to where Laurel/Arrow could end up by the end of the season if that's the direction they are going. Producers pet character with multiple chances to improved is inserted in more story and breaks up the chemistry of the team.

 

TV Guide to the rescue!

 

Their list of "TV Characters We Once Hated" includes Jaime Lannister (after three shorter seasons); Callie from Grey's Anatomy; Avery from Nashville, which has only been on for three seasons; Adam, from Girls; Lady Edith from Downton Abbey (which judging from the comments on this site may no longer be true this season, also, that turnaround started second season, not third, and Downton Abbey has shorter seasons); Pete, Mad Men; Katherine, Vampire Diaries; Morgan, The Mindy Project (um); Dylan, Bates Motel; Carl, The Walking Dead; Hayley, The Originals; Winston, New Girl (what?); Toby, Pretty Little Liars; Chang, Community; Mellie, Scandal (turnaround was in the second season, after a short first season.)

 

What I think we learned from this list is: a, TV Guide is only interested in current shows, b, I don't watch nearly as much television as I thought I did; c, wow, the CW has a habit of introducing unlikeable characters; d, to answer the question, at least recently, the characters who have gone from hated to loved have generally done so within the first 35 episodes of a show (including Game of Thrones, Downton Abbey and Girls with their shorter seasons), and/or been on shows where other characters are as bad or worse on an ethical level (Game of Thrones, Mad Men, Scandal.)

 

Apparently I don't watch much TV at all; most of these characters are completely unheard of to me. But thank you for finding that list. Your remarks about when characters were able to be turned around are very interesting.

[Chaser]

SA doesn't know what Felicity is thinking? I thought she speaks up at the end of 3x12? Or Oliver doesn't know what Felicity is thinking (since SA tends to confuses himself with his character at times)? If it is Oliver, does that mean Felicity doesn't lose it on him at the end of 3x12 and so Oliver is still in the dark?

 

I have probably been thinking too much about this.. But I just really want inside Felicity's head.

[Carrie Ann]

A lot of those characters were intro'd as villains, which is why they were initially "hated," but I'd argue that many of them weren't even hated that much. People loved Jaime Lannister from the jump; same for Katherine on TVD. I'm not sure I can think of a character who was intended to be a protagonist who received the level of hate Laurel does, and come back from that. Maybe Dawn Summers on Buffy? Some people always liked her, others came around on her by Season 7 (some never did, obviously). Anyway, I agree that a heel turn like the one on AoS would probably be the best possible option, but it's unlikely given comics and given KC's one-track-mindedness when it comes to this "character."

 

In that TVLine interview, I found SA's reasoning for not telling Thea suspicious. Oliver can be a little smug sometimes, but I don't think he was by any means convinced he was going to win in this duel, unless our speculation is right and the fix was in before the fight.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[BkWurm1]

On the romantic front, do you think there is a place on Arrow for a great love? I mean, Smallville had Clark and Lois, the Spider-Man movies always involve Mary Jane or Gwen…. A female is always a part of the hero’s journey.

 

I think that both Laurel and Sara, for Oliver, were loves that were principally from the past, from before the boat. And any other sort of brief relationship that he’s had has been flawed. Felicity has clearly, over the course of two-plus seasons, grown into that love for him. It’s just a matter of whether or not they can ever find a spot where they can make it work on an ongoing basis.

 

The above is from SA's TV Line interview.  He basically says that Felicity is Oliver's great love.  Awww.  :)

Edited January 21, 2015 by BkWurm1

[Guest]

Hated characters that become loved characters only ever happens when they're written properly. The writers either embrace it and make it the character you love to hate, or they do something about it to turn it around. Usually this happens in the first or second season, from my experience. But the Arrow EP's just have a complete blind spot when it comes to Laurel. So meta! Nothing they've done this season has endeared her to me. In fact, they've made it worse because I was fully open to liking her if they got it right. They didn't. The trouble is most fans have already formed their opinions on whether they love or hate a character and a third season is usually too late to change their minds. 

 

Also, they're never gonna get rid of Laurel. You can wish for it but it's not happening. She's here to stay guys. 

 

SA doesn't know what Felicity is thinking? I thought she speaks up at the end of 3x12? Or Oliver doesn't know what Felicity is thinking (since SA tends to confuses himself with his character at times)? If it is Oliver, does that mean Felicity doesn't lose it on him at the end of 3x12 and so Oliver is still in the dark?

 

I have probably been thinking too much about this.. But I just really want inside Felicity's head.

 

With Felicity, I think SA was talking more about what we've already seen and not necessarily what's coming. At least I hope so. I would kind of like to know what Felicity feels. Even if she doesn't say it out loud, I hope I see it with her actions and how she reacts to his death. 

Edited January 21, 2015 by Guest

[Happy Harpy]

Which makes me wonder has that ever happened before? Has there ever been a character that the majority of a fandom and media has disliked or failed to become attached to in two years that has ever managed to turn it around?

Taking it to the Quiver :)