Spoiler Discussion Thread

[wonderwall]

Same. It's going to be terrible, and then we'll have to wait three months to get any kind of resolution.

3 MONTHS?!? I THOUGHT WE WOULD HAVE TO WAIT TILL THE END OF JANUARY. 

 

WHAT. 

 

Ugh I hate how I'm so disappointed in this season yet I'm still upset it won't come back sooner

[apinknightmare]

3 MONTHS?!? I THOUGHT WE WOULD HAVE TO WAIT TILL THE END OF JANUARY. 

 

WHAT. 

 

Ugh I hate how I'm so disappointed in this season yet I'm still upset it won't come back sooner

 

Well, the show comes back sooner, but Oliver's gone for the first two (maybe three eps). So...two-ish months, not three, haha.

[wonderwall]

Well, the show comes back sooner, but Oliver's gone for the first two (maybe three eps). So...two-ish months, not three, haha.

There goes my enthusiasm again... I sinceriously forgot about Oliver's 'disappearance'.:/ 

 

Or maybe he's in a coma by the end of episode 9? And by the end of the episode, Oliver will be straddling between life and death?

Edited November 21, 2014 by wonderwall

[apinknightmare]

There goes my enthusiasm again... I sinceriously forgot about Oliver's 'disappearance'.:/ 

 

Or maybe he's in a coma by the end of episode 9? And by the end of the episode, Oliver will be straddling between life and death?

 

I think if he was in a coma we'd see him in the present day. I also think that if he was going off with Ra's we'd get some present-day Oliver. The only reason I can figure for him being absent from present-day is because he's either missing or allegedly dead.

[wonderwall]

I think if he was in a coma we'd see him in the present day. I also think that if he was going off with Ra's we'd get some present-day Oliver. The only reason I can figure for him being absent from present-day is because he's either missing or allegedly dead.

Yeah, but it hasn't really been confirmed that we'll only be seeing Oliver in flashbacks right? If Oliver is in a coma, SA doesn't have to work a lot (I mean taking shots of him with his eyes closed isn't a lot of work imo :p) so that could be a plausible theory

[Sunshine]

A

There goes my enthusiasm again... I sinceriously forgot about Oliver's 'disappearance'.:/ 

 

Or maybe he's in a coma by the end of episode 9? And by the end of the episode, Oliver will be straddling between life and death?

I think at the end of 3.09 he is literally hanging off a cliff if SA's literal cliffhanger is to be believed.   I wonder if Diggle goes looking for him.  DR tweeted something about being on a mountain with the stunt team. Based on Geoff Johns tweet yesterday, I think Oliver might be back in SC by 3.12.  SA was shooting with EBR/DR/CH/KC/JRR.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Sunshine

[Chaser]

If he is in E12, its very little. 

 

If the critical and fan response so far this season is any indication, the risk they are taking could really backfire. 

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, but it hasn't really been confirmed that we'll only be seeing Oliver in flashbacks right? If Oliver is in a coma, SA doesn't have to work a lot (I mean taking shots of him with his eyes closed isn't a lot of work imo :p) so that could be a plausible theory

 

Yeah, SA said there were a couple of eps where he was only in flashbacks.

[statsgirl]

I also think the big Olicity scene is a goodbye. It's been speculated that Oliver sacrifices himself to satisfy Ra's and I think that's exactly what will happen. 

It will be a goodbye but it also has to be an 'I love you' at least underlying if it's going to have any emotional impact beyond his scenes with Diggle and Roy.

 

Anyone else surprised at the utter lack of build up for Ra's and the LOA? I know we had 3x04….but that was it. No looming threat or intrigue. I wonder if they are thinking Sara's murder counts. IMO it doesn't.

 

I think they're counting too much on people knowing comic book canon. Another mistake, IMO because most viewers aren't familiar with Ra's or the comics.

[Guest]

Anyone else surprised at the utter lack of build up for Ra's and the LOA? I know we had 3x04….but that was it. No looming threat or intrigue. I wonder if they are thinking Sara's murder counts. IMO it doesn't. And the episode description sounds fractured; You have Big Bad Ra's & Nyssa and then you have Felicity and Ray and Lance Family Drama. 

 

I'm both surprised and not surprised. I was thinking yesterday that the lead up to winter hiatus so far has felt very plot-y and lacking in dramatic tension. Rather than having character driven moments, every episode feels like one giant plot point that is left unfinished because we're building to a resolution later in the season. It's strange but I never felt that way in s1 or s2, with the undertaking or Slade. But now it just feels like we're watching a checklist of moments that need to happen before something actually happens, if that makes sense. The only trouble is it's all over the place and there's no real cohesion. I'm repeating myself now but it's so sloppy.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I initially had thought that Ray and Felicity would begin dating before the mid-season break and continue dating during Oliver's disappearance.  But after watching the latest episode and reading other's thoughts, I'm wondering if Felicity will shut Ray down in episode nine.  I had the impression from Guggenheim's comments about Ray/Felicity that she would date him for a while before ultimately choosing Oliver as the one she wanted to be with.  But I didn't really take into consideration the way that Guggenheim has oversold every fucking thing ever.  I know that some weren't bothered by it, but I thought it was way too soon for Felicity to be kissing Ray and declaring that she has a "type."  The EPs haven't done an adequate job of building up the Ray/Felicity relationship, but they frequently skip a lot of important developments and leave us to fill in the details.

 

So maybe Felicity makes her choice in episode nine and Oliver says his heartfelt goodbye.  We're assuming that Oliver is present either mostly or only in flashbacks in episodes 10-11, right?  If he goes off to the LoA voluntarily, I would expect that we would be shown scenes of his time with the League.  The fact that he's probably only present in flashbacks leads me to speculate that maybe he is actually presumed dead at the end of episode nine.  But since there's no body, Team Arrow holds onto hope that maybe there's a way that he survived.  They continue to look for Oliver or his dead body.  That could get us through episodes 10-11. 

 

Meanwhile, Oliver is out in the wild living it up Bear Grylls style.  Never giving up hope, Felicity is somehow able to find him and arrange a rescue mission.  Of course, Felicity will be a part of this mission and will be the first face Oliver sees when he's rescued.

 

I guess that I would like to see a scenario similar to this if I'm going to have to go multiple episodes sans Oliver.

[Chaser]

I think my worse fear is that they portray Diggle and Felicity successfully moving on with their lives. Diggle is a family man working with Argus and Felicity and Ray are running the company and romantically involved. Regardless of the circumstances in which Oliver leaves, I need Diggle and Felicity to be closer than ever, carrying on the fight and looking for Oliver. They are family and I need this show to remember that.

[statsgirl]

I have a worse one ... Diggle and Felicity have moved on with their lives and Laurel and Roy are the ones running missions out of the Arrow lair, hiding from Thea as she gets closer to discovering the secret.

 

After Draw Back Your Bow, I'm not sure they will remember that Diggle and Felicity are family, but I don't think they will drop them too much because ratings.

[Chaser]

I just had an imagine of Roy flipping off a car and knocking his head on a lamppost or something. Laurel is hopping over to save him but its a slow process because one hand is trying to tie a buckle and the other has a weapon (which she is holding incorrectly and smacking her head with on ever other hop).

[blixie]

I really really hope that Felicity has learned about the ATOM suit in ep 9 and the "secrets" Ray has kept which kiboshes all the romance angles, my preseason spec was that Raylicity wouldn't amount to more than flirting and a couple of dates, but one date and kiss is even better. I think he'll smooth it over to a point, and between her genuine interest in his tech, and the need for some help on the Hero front they'll be in the Lair/fold working on the suit/tech together, and helping Team Arrow fill in for the absent Oliver. They will still be awkward and flirty, but  nothing will come of it, and she'll bring up all the ways he's a more perfect version of Oliver, that it would be really easy to date him and leave Oliver to his manpain, but that those imperfections, all those ways he's different from Ray, are all the reasons she loves him. 

Edited November 21, 2014 by blixie

[BunsenBurner]

Didn't SA say that he was getting a new suit?  Would PT be providing it?

[looptab]

About the description for 309, why would Ra's give an ultimatum to Oliver to find sara's killer when in The Magician he didn't seem to care that much about her dying?

[apinknightmare]

About the description for 309, why would Ra's give an ultimatum to Oliver to find sara's killer when in The Magician he didn't seem to care that much about her dying?

 

Well, Oliver doesn't know that Ra's didn't care that much about it. If Ra's sees an opportunity as far as Oliver is concerned (be it because he thinks his skill set is useful to the LoA or he has other nefarious plans), why wouldn't he pretend to be upset over Sara's death as leverage to get Oliver to do what he wanted? Especially if Thea or someone Oliver loves is involved. And it would tie in with Ra's (per the EPs) thinking that Oliver's personal connections are holding him back, because while he would no doubt threaten one of Oliver's loved ones to get Oliver to do what he wanted, he would probably also think Oliver was weak since he could be manipulated in that way.

[looptab]

That makes sense. I wonder where Nyssa will stand in all of this. Can we keep her while Oliver is gone? :D

[writersblock51]

I'd love for Nyssa to be the one who helps Team Arrow in Oliver's absence.

 

She could even become *cough* Black Canary! *cough cough* - a far BETTER one than .... *cough*

[SonofaBiscuit]

I think that it says a lot that I would gladly accept Nyssa, Sin, Felicity, Thea, or even crazy pants Cupid as Black Canary before I would accept Laurel.  That's a problem.  I'm not watching live after the winter break, but I am looking forward to the creative ways people try to comment on the episodes without getting their posts deleted :)

 

I wonder if Cupid is returning sometime in episodes 10-12.  It looks like she has a comic connection to Brick, and I believe that he's beginning his three episode arc in episode 10.  In the comics,

Cupid kills Brick with a wrecking ball suspended from a crane. Cuts him right in half.

  

 

So it looks like Laurel is part of The Flash crossover.  Oh my god, if they go with this canary cry thing, I'm going to have to cut a bitch.  And yes, I know it would make no sense since everyone else gained their abilities from the particle accelerator explosion, but when does this show ever make sense?  Maybe if Oliver finds out about his kid in that episode, Laurel will find out too.  I can't remember, does Felicity know that Oliver got a girl pregnant when he was with Laurel?? 

Edited November 21, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit

[looptab]

I had assumed just the teams would be involved, silly me. :/

[blixie]

I always knew they would give her the Canary Cry and creating a whole "shared universe" in which it was possible was part of the point. OH BARRY you thought your show was about you! Nope The Flash exists to enable Laurel Lance, Black Canary.

 

Seriously though I'm thrilled, it's the only fucking reason I'll accept her at all, even though it still shouldn't make her magically a good fighter, I guess they can wrap supestrength into too. 

[apinknightmare]

I wonder if Laurel and Quentin are actually going to be going to Central City, or if there will be Starling City scenes in the Flash (maybe Oliver and co. have to call for some legal type information or...something).

[calliope1975]

Interesting development. I still think the kid is going to be involved in some way, though I would love to be proven wrong. At the very least, I hope Quentin and Joe can hang out. In other related news, as far as I'm concerned, Black Canary died with Sara. Full stop.

[Password]

Oooooh this is terrible of me, but if Laurel finds out about the child - DRAMA!

[apinknightmare]

Oooooh this is terrible of me, but if Laurel finds out about the child - DRAMA!

The only part of any Central City stuff with her I'd be excited to see, haha.

[SonofaBiscuit]

A little part of me (the really really mean part) is laughing at the fact that Arrow viewers who ditched this show for The Flash are now going to be subjected to Laurel over on their show as well.  Hahaha!

 

I'm so mean that I wanted to go over the The Flash forum and alert them to this development, but there's no spoilers thread.  Darn!

Edited November 21, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit

[looptab]

The thing is, when asked about that (in)famous major Arrow moment happening on The Flash,  IIRC Amell said the director of photography told him it was the best thing he did, or something like that, while Guggenheim said it's just a revelation to the audience and there aren't any charachters involved. So, which is it? Or were they talking about different thiings? 

[apinknightmare]

The thing is, when asked about that (in)famous major Arrow moment happening on The Flash,  IIRC Amell said the director of photography told him it was the best thing he did, or something like that, while Guggenheim said it's just a revelation to the audience and there aren't any charachters involved. So, which is it? Or were they talking about different thiings? 

 

A beautiful, well placed beam of light shines down on Oliver's child, who's playing in a field of poppies blowing in the wind. He must have OLIVER JR. embroidered on his shirt or...something.

[calliope1975]

The thing is, when asked about that (in)famous major Arrow moment happening on The Flash,  IIRC Amell said the director of photography told him it was the best thing he did, or something like that, while Guggenheim said it's just a revelation to the audience and there aren't any charachters involved. So, which is it? Or were they talking about different thiings? 

 

Maybe it's some special effect or something like the fight between Barry and Oliver. I would gladly forget all about the kid situation, but I'm preparing myself for the worst. 

[SonofaBiscuit]

The thing is, when asked about that (in)famous major Arrow moment happening on The Flash,  IIRC Amell said the director of photography told him it was the best thing he did, or something like that, while Guggenheim said it's just a revelation to the audience and there aren't any charachters involved. So, which is it? Or were they talking about different thiings? 

 

Given the choice, always go with what Amell says.  Always.  Guggenheim's declarations generally amount to nothing.

[Chaser]

I'm confused. Didn't KC say she wasn't involved in the crossover? Also, its already ready a full house. Fitting in Team Arrow is one thing, but how would the fit in Laurel and Quentin?

 

My theory: Its a two second shock of Quetin and Laurel visitng her Mom and she gets hit with something for the Canary Cry. Such a cheat. I'm really disappointed.

[looptab]

A beautiful, well placed beam of light shines down on Oliver's child, who's playing in a field of poppies blowing in the wind. He must have OLIVER JR. embroidered on his shirt or...something.

Hahaha! I'm expecting another newspaper article from the future, but your spec is better :D

[SonofaBiscuit]

Hahaha! I'm expecting another newspaper article from the future, but your spec is better :D

 

 

I will take an article from the future mentioning Oliver Queen and his wife, Felicity.

Edited November 21, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit

[Velocity23]

My believe is that Quentin does show up and brings Dinah to Starling to surprise Laurel in in 3x09. There wouldnt be any use of Dinah in Starling as a surprise if LL already seen her in CC. The question was for both KC & PB. So i am gonna assume it just means Quentin. 3x07/1x08/3x08 were filming at the same time and KC wasnt there for the filming.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Velocity23

[chaos is welcome]

If they really and truly give laurel a meta human canary cry, I will throw things mat my tv. Because the whole grounded in reality thing is the reason my family enjoys this show. Even if it happens on flash I am so not okay with it. Plus the only reason meta humans exist at all is bc of the particle accelerator explosion.

[statsgirl]

Maybe if Oliver finds out about his kid in that episode, Laurel will find out too.  I can't remember, does Felicity know that Oliver got a girl pregnant when he was with Laurel?? 

I think only Moira knew, other than Oliver, and only Moira knew the baby didn't die.  Other than the mother, that is.  Is this a storyline they really want to open up now, Oliver finding out he has a kid, when so much is going on and it should affect his decision to leave in 309?  What am I saying? of course they do.

 

Guggenheim retweeted it to KC and PB so she will be there too.

 

I cannot, in any way possible think why Laurel would be going to Central City with the team because would her legal jurisdiction cover CC?  To give her a canary cry so soon is incredibly bad writing

I will take an article from the future mentioning Oliver Queen and his wife, Felicity.

.  

But if that article happens, I will take whatever KC they give me in that episode.

[Danny Franks]

Quite apart from the stupid, unearned ways in which Laurel could be blessed with the final thing that makes her so much better than that dead one, you know, whatseherface, would be the fact that this would mean viewers would have to hear Katie Cassidy shrieking at the top of her voice for the remainder of the show's run. Does that sound like fun to anyone?

 

Jool in Farscape did it once in a while, and it was incredibly grating. The only saving grace there was, it was grating to the rest of the crew, and Jool was generally annoying and irritating anyway (although I liked her in spite of it). I doubt that's how they'd play things with Laurel the Magnificent.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Danny Franks

[apinknightmare]

I'm confused. Didn't KC say she wasn't involved in the crossover? Also, its already ready a full house. Fitting in Team Arrow is one thing, but how would the fit in Laurel and Quentin?

 

My theory: Its a two second shock of Quetin and Laurel visitng her Mom and she gets hit with something for the Canary Cry. Such a cheat. I'm really disappointed.

 

Isn't Quentin surprising Laurel with a visit from her mom for Christmas in 3x09? It wouldn't be much of a surprise if she'd just seen her. So either they don't see Dinah while they're in town, or they're in the Flash episode, but remain in Starling City.

 

ETA: Or what @Velocity23 wrote (didn't see that before I posted!)

Edited November 21, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Chaser]

I wonder if its going to be like ep. 4 for Felicity. Just a brief glimpse. But what's the point? All I can think is Shoehorn

 

ETA: Yeah, it wouldn't make sense to have them see her Mom. But I can't think of any reason Laurel/Quentin would be in CC.

Edited November 21, 2014 by 10Eleven12

[Password]

they're in the Flash episode, but remain in Starling City.

Pretty much the first thing I thought.

[looptab]

Or Guggenheim misread that tweet and understood that person was asking if they were in The Flash crossover at all. 

[tv echo]

You know what?  I don't know if I even care anymore.  This show has been a bitter disappointment this season.  I don't even recognize my favorite characters, and everything else is a hot mess.  Sometimes I don't know if I'm watching Arrow, One Tree Hill, or Sex and the City.   I guess I'm moving from Outrage to Apathy. 

 

Is Ray Palmer a creepy stalker or a misunderstood doofus? - Don't give a damn. 

Is Laurel going to fumble at first or be a magical ninja as the Buckle Canary? -  Don't give a damn. 

What will happen with Ra's al Ghul? - Don't give a damn. 

Did Thea kill Sara? - Don't give a damn.  

Will Oliver and Felicity ever get together? - Don't want to give a damn.

 

I'm going to watch the Flash/Arrow cross-over episodes.  After that, I just don't know.

 

P.S.  You just knew Verdant was coming back because what's a CW show without a nightclub and a place to party?  I'm waiting for DJ Douchebag to introduce a new musical artist each week, and then there will be an ad promoting that artist's album at the end of each episode.  Eventually, there'll be an Arrow music soundtrack that you can buy for Christmas.  Maybe Green Arrow and Black Canary will dance their version of the Batusi.

Edited November 22, 2014 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

Maybe the end of the Flash ep has everyone returning to Starling City, and that's how we see them?

[looptab]

Maybe they are there in spirit...but really, having them go and not Roy, who technically is part of the Team, seems just random.

[ostentatious]

Katie Cassidy said that the EPs pitched her an idea for Laurel appearing on the Flash, and she made it sound like it's a future thing that she liked and hopes they do.

 

Her response was one she wouldn't have given if she'd already filmed a Flash appearance.

 

A phone call is possible, I suppose. It just seems more likely to me that Guggenheim didn't fully read the question.

[quarks]

For what it's worth, even if Laurel and Quentin are both in Central City for the Flash crossover and not just in some brief cameo (Oliver is having lunch with Laurel, gets summoned to help Barry, 30 seconds tops), I don't think anyone other than Barry, Oliver and the villains will be having much screentime. Laurel and Quentin aren't in any of the pictures released for either episode - either the behind the scenes ones or the more official filming shots. For that matter, neither are Iris and Eddie, who  are presumably going to be sidelined as well. I'm actually kinda bummed about this because I would love some Joe and Quentin scenes, but oh well.

 

And I have to agree with @looptab - the original tweet and even the answer aren't that clear; it could very well just be Guggenheim assuring fans that Quentin and Laurel are in the Arrow part of the crossover event, especially since neither one of them are in the pictures for that episode either, so it's a valid question. Or as @apinknightmare is suggesting, both teams head to Starling at the end of the episode to meet up with Laurel and Quentin who are staring at a dead body brought down by a boomerang.

 

Regarding Laurel getting the Canary Cry over on Flash - ok, yes, these are the same two shows that thought it would be a good idea to highlight Felicity's feelings for Oliver over on another show, and yes, the scene where Barry got his powers was originally over on Arrow, and "The Brave and the Bold" does seem to suggest the Justice League, which would presumably be a good time to focus on Laurel, Ted and Ray as additional members, so if the show is giving Laurel the Canary Cry as an actual superhuman ability and not as a sonic device, this would be the time.

 

All that said - I really cannot see why the showrunners would give Laurel the Canary Cry over on Flash. First, it breaks their apparent idea that at least for this season, Flash gets superpowers and bright lighting while Arrow gets normal abilities and a hatred for both iridescent lighting and LEDs in order to distinguish the two shows.  Not saying they wouldn't do it, but it's against the other things they are saying/doing.  Second, that would be a huge moment that really should be done over on Arrow unless the shows for some reason decide to move Laurel over to Flash. Which could happen, but presumably not in the middle of both seasons.

[chaos is welcome]

I believe there's a spoiler out there that the flash reveal is JUST for the fans. The characters don't even know. Can't remember source though.

[blixie]

I guess he could have but it's not that complicated of a question: Are Laurel and Quentin in The Flash part of the crossover with both Katie and Paul @'d. It's a yes or no question and he said yes.