Spoiler Discussion Thread

[BkWurm1]

If MG was following the letter of the question, Vigilante and Black Siren would be ruled out since for them, far more than just a name was dropped.   

[Sunshine]

How about Anatoly & Bratva? He could fight them as both GA & mayor.  Works on both a personal and Star City level.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Sunshine

[Mellowyellow]

7 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

The sappy, thirteen year old girl in me wants her to have ordered a special cake that says, "Will you marry me?" and just tie everything thing up in a quick bow.  

Adult me keeps saying that's stupid and too fast but teenagers don't listen. 

MG seems excited about the cake. He said the cake was "awesome."

My 15 yo self wants to join your 13 yo. Could Felicity have ordered some special message in the cake that indicates she wants to get back together so Oliver wants to kick everyone out so he can ravage her?

[LeighAn]

Yeah I'm torn I want to go with Cayden James but he's not a big bad Oliver can fight so much. Vigilante seems more of a Oliver uses the growth he's made this season on his past to redeem Vigilante- who has altrusistic intentions behind his ways. He essentially does want to stop criminals....just by killing them. So I don't know if that makes him big bad material or medium bad material. Plus I'm still head canoning that his Dinah's  ex.

Wendy already said Black Siren will be all out Villan next season but (it's Wendy) The thing that I hold on to is that they killed Lauriver because Katie and Stephen didn't have chemistry- per Marc- they killed Laurel because they saw her as the easiest cast member to lose that would also make an impact- and if you believe the paps because of BTS reasons- would they really have the confidence that Katie could pull off being Big Bad?

Im still on she's a minion/partner to who ever is the big bad.

So I'm torn over who it might be but Cayden seems like the most likely

4 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

How about Anatoly & Bratva? He could fight them as both GA & mayor.

Ooh good guess plus they said he was coming back in season 6

[Guest]

I feel like there might not be one single big bad next season. Cayden James for sure because that will be the consequence of Felicity's storyline this season (because I'm still yet to see what she did was so bad tbh). Black Siren will probably be there for Quentin and Dinah. Vigilante? It's possible they could just have a mix of them all happening at once.

[Sunshine]

Has Vigilante been set up as a villain or just a reckless vigilante with no regard for collateral damage?  I think the latter which is why I lean towards Dinah's thought to be dead partner. I thought Pike once but I don't think he'd be so casual about collateral damage.

Anatoly & Bratva could be their friend to foe storyline ala Slade Wilson. Why do something new if you can repeat what you already did does seem to be their motto.

The only name drop and no more is Cayden James.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Sunshine

[way2interested]

2 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Yeah I'm torn I want to go with Cayden James but he's not a big bad Oliver can fight so much.

Flash's is going to be going with a non-speedster big bad next season, so I could see Arrow going a similar way with a not-direct fighter big bad, especially since all of the other "villains" (or whatever level of villain they'll end up being) like Vigilante, the Bratva, Black Siren, any other new characters, can provide a fighting opponent. Or, like Angel12d said, maybe have multiple villains at once and they can be all tied to different characters (like how they said that Vigilante's identity would tie more to the side characters than to Oliver).

[Primal Slayer]

18 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Yeah I'm torn I want to go with Cayden James but he's not a big bad Oliver can fight so much. Vigilante seems more of a Oliver uses the growth he's made this season on his past to redeem Vigilante- who has altrusistic intentions behind his ways. He essentially does want to stop criminals....just by killing them. So I don't know if that makes him big bad material or medium bad material. Plus I'm still head canoning that his Dinah's  ex.

Wendy already said Black Siren will be all out Villan next season but (it's Wendy) 

Where did she say that? They've been very coy as to her status as far as being just a villain or antagonist.

[BkWurm1]

11 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I feel like there might not be one single big bad next season. Cayden James for sure because that will be the consequence of Felicity's storyline this season (because I'm still yet to see what she did was so bad tbh). Black Siren will probably be there for Quentin and Dinah. Vigilante? It's possible they could just have a mix of them all happening at once.

I agree there will be multiple bads, but I can't imagine them not having a BIG Bad to top the season off.  And unless they all coordinated their attacks, it seems too much a stretch that they would all save their worst attack for May.  

Quote

Yeah I'm torn I want to go with Cayden James but he's not a big bad Oliver can fight so much.

Helix seemed pretty happy to hire henchmen when needed. Depending on his plan, they might have lots of people for Oliver and the team to punch.  They could bring in some expert fighter to test Oliver's skill that had zero personal grudge.  

[way2interested]

Just now, BkWurm1 said:

I agree there will be multiple bads, but I can't imagine them not having a BIG Bad to top the season off.  And unless they all coordinated their attacks, it seems too much a stretch that they would all save their worst attack for May.  

Day-dreaming here, but it could be that the one Big Bad wants *something* and then Team Arrow is what's standing in the way, so instead of the Big Bad being directly connected to Oliver, said Big Bad just coordinates other villains who do have connections to Oliver/the team to defeat them/distance them/distract them while the Big Bad just stays in a Maxwell Lord/Lex Luthor-esque position. 

[BkWurm1]

12 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Day-dreaming here, but it could be that the one Big Bad wants *something* and then Team Arrow is what's standing in the way, so instead of the Big Bad being directly connected to Oliver, said Big Bad just coordinates other villains who do have connections to Oliver/the team to defeat them/distance them/distract them while the Big Bad just stays in a Maxwell Lord/Lex Luthor-esque position. 

I think that would be a very likely set up.  And Helix would have the info to use as leverage or bait to get them to do their bidding.  

Part of me is excited at a Big Bad that has ties to Felicity but I also know that she'll get so much more crap for freeing him than Oliver ever did for any of his suspect choices related to his bad guys and I'm not looking forward to that.  Though I suppose the haters are going to hate no matter what.  

Edited May 12, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Mellowyellow]

Awww I love that you worry about Felicity!

For me I think the haters are crazy beyond cure! I mean some of the stuff they say on Twitter! It's just so cray I can't even take them seriously anymore. 

I wonder if they read Olicity fanfic and rage I really do because they're obsessed with Felicity/Olicity despite loathing her/it. 

I want a lighter season and I think that a Maxwell Lord type will give the show enough excitement without it being dreary! Plus they might cast someone dashing! Were we promised a lighter season this season or was it "back to basics"? Or am I confused with Flash?

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, Mellowyellow said:

Were we promised a lighter season this season or was it "back to basics"? Or am I confused with Flash?

Season 4 was the "lighter" season. You know, the one that started with a flashforward to a grave.

And this season is the "back to basics." You know, the one where we had a guy with magical rags and now a meta canary cry on the team.

[LeighAn]

42 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Where did she say that? They've been very coy as to her status as far as being just a villain or antagonist.

The tv line one where she answered fan questions I believe. She was asked  what Black Sirens role would be or what people could expect and her answer was something like "she's going to be all out bad ass villainy" or some such Wendy word salad. 

[Mellowyellow]

Ahh thanks @insomniadreams88

Ah so in the lighter season Felicity got shot multiple times and ended up paralysed.

These people!

[Midnight Lullaby]

If he meant they name dropped him and nothing more than Cayden James is the only one that comes to mind. Other than him I think Anatoly might come back as an antagonist..maybe they'll work together. I see vigilante and BS as minor villains like Anarky or Church for example because Felicity and Curtis took down BS so her being the big bad would be ridiculous and given his weapon of choice I don't think Vigilante is the right kind of villain to be the big bad.

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Part of me is excited at a Big Bad that has ties to Felicity but I also know that she'll get so much more crap for freeing him than Oliver ever did for any of his suspect choices related to his bad guys and I'm not looking forward to that.  Though I suppose the haters are going to hate no matter what.  

Seriously. Felicity could stand in front of a lamp and they'd be like "That bitch! She's blocking everyone's light. Ugh just kill her already!" Haha.

31 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Day-dreaming here, but it could be that the one Big Bad wants *something* and then Team Arrow is what's standing in the way, so instead of the Big Bad being directly connected to Oliver, said Big Bad just coordinates other villains who do have connections to Oliver/the team to defeat them/distance them/distract them while the Big Bad just stays in a Maxwell Lord/Lex Luthor-esque position. 

I like the sound of this. I'm bored of all the villains being specifically linked to Oliver tbh. 

[LeighAn]

3 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Ahh thanks @insomniadreams88

Ah so in the lighter season Felicity got shot multiple times and ended up paralysed.

These people!

But Oliver made a joke about Felicitys cooking! It was practically a romantic sitcom people. At least that's what reddit tells me.

[Cleanqueen]

BS is a villian...LL stans need to get over the fact that their fav wont turn good and all of a sudden become the Black Canary they've always wanted. The show already has the black canary they've wanted. They're all trying so hard to be excited about BS but in reality they're not really excited because she's a villain. Well you can't have your cake and eat it too, either you want KC on the show or you prefer she only be remembered as the BC and stays dead.

[Mellowyellow]

Umm they are still hoping BS will turn into Laurel (or is she already Laurel?) and start an epic love story with Oliver! I see it on Twitter and I don't even look for it! Full of hope they are! I should embrace the same positivity for Olicity! 

[way2interested]

15 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Part of me is excited at a Big Bad that has ties to Felicity but I also know that she'll get so much more crap for freeing him than Oliver ever did for any of his suspect choices related to his bad guys and I'm not looking forward to that.  Though I suppose the haters are going to hate no matter what.  

That's part of the reason why I'm not completely on the idea of James being the big bad (not being afraid of hate, more of I feel like the writers would rather someone who's not connected to anyone rather than connected to someone over Oliver plus to avoid the drama of that), but rather still someone who's not a fighter who would be the big bad. He could still be around, but in the group of villains trying to take down one of the individual heroes/Felicity directly.

[Primal Slayer]

14 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

BS is a villian...LL stans need to get over the fact that their fav wont turn good and all of a sudden become the Black Canary they've always wanted. The show already has the black canary they've wanted. They're all trying so hard to be excited about BS but in reality they're not really excited because she's a villain. Well you can't have your cake and eat it too, either you want KC on the show or you prefer she only be remembered as the BC and stays dead.

And people need to learn that not everyone is expecting her to turn into BC or a goody 2 shoes hero. Olicity fans want them to go on a date to bath and body works and smell some candles....but not all of them want or care about that. 

[leopardprint]

19 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Umm they are still hoping BS will turn into Laurel (or is she already Laurel?) and start an epic love story with Oliver! I see it on Twitter and I don't even look for it! Full of hope they are! I should embrace the same positivity for Olicity! 

If BS is redeemed then her story would be resolved and she would leave the show (again) because why would they have two Black Canaries on the team? Screechy funnel FX are expensive! 

I like the idea of Anatoli then maybe they could finally do something with the Mayor's office if there's a Bratva gang war in Star City but I think they probably want a fresh, new villain.

Edited May 12, 2017 by leopardprint

[Primal Slayer]

33 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

The tv line one where she answered fan questions I believe. She was asked  what Black Sirens role would be or what people could expect and her answer was something like "she's going to be all out bad ass villainy" or some such Wendy word salad. 

 She was talking about her return for 5x22/23.  Tvline added the badass villainy part. 

Edited May 12, 2017 by Primal Slayer

[Velocity23]

Watch them give Dinah Drake one of the BC storylines from the comics. 

[tv echo]

On BS' role...

Quote

-- On whether Black Siren will be S6's Big Bad, MG: "Hmm, I don't know if I should answer that. Uh, I will say, she's gonna have a very significant presence as an antagonist, let's put it that way." (WonderCon, Apr. 1, 2017: MYM Buzz video, page 57 of Spoilers thread)
-- WM: "What I love the most about Black Siren is seeing Katie Cassidy play a badass. [laughs] I mean, she was a badass before as Black Canary, but playing this other role with this darkness to it… it’s just a very interesting color for her to play, as she did Laurel, which she did an amazing job. She brings so much to this role, and it’s really seeing Katie really nail the ins and outs of this character. I think the other interesting thing about it and my favorite part is the impact that it has emotionally on the people who knew Laurel before she was unfortunately killed in Season 4. What does it mean to see this person who looks exactly like this person you loved and have them come back and be evil? It raises all kinds of questions for the people who knew her best, and that part is just absolutely rich character territory that we can play with and we’re really excited about doing that going forward." (Apr. 26, 2017 CBR article, page 1 of New Spoilers thread)

On BS' name...

Quote

-- On why Black Siren can't go by the name Dinah, MG: "Because we have another character called Dinah and the show is confusing enough as it is." (May 4, 2017 MG tumblr post, page 2 of New Spoilers thread)
-- On Black Siren's name, MG: "When we script Black Siren, we use the name Black Siren." (May 4, 2017 MG tumblr post, page 2 of New Spoilers thread)
-- MG: "We’ve been 'slugging' Black Siren as 'Black Siren' in our scripts, but I’m getting tired of that, so we’ll probably start calling her 'Laurel' in Season 6." (May 3, 2017 MG tumblr post, page 2 of New Spoilers thread)

Edited May 12, 2017 by tv echo

[LeighAn]

Just now, Primal Slayer said:

 She was talking about her return for 5x22/23. 

Same difference *shrug* Marc said she's an antagonist. Wendy said a she's only interested in bad ass villainy and the paps said that based on what they heard from what happens in the finale there unlikely to be a Black Siren redemption arch. If it quacks like a duck....

[Mellowyellow]

They could redeem her (I'm not sure how but this show will do what it will do) and then have her join the team and make googoo bitchy come hither eyes at Oliver while he's married to Felicity and STILL giving Laurel2 stank face.

This would return her right back to Laurel1 territory, keep the comic stans happy, let the actress carry on with her head canon and it would be as if Laurel never died and is hanging around watching Olicity raise their Olicity babies! Wouldn't particularly bother me!  

[insomniadreams88]

I think even if there is a redemption arc for BS - which, if there is, what's the point? To ship her off elsewhere once it's done? I can't ever see her joining Team Arrow - she's starting off next season as a villain, if only to see her when she's not working for Chase. Even if she ends up working for/with next season's Big Bad (I can't see them making her the Big Bad), I think they might start her off as a villain working on her own. Because so far, we've only seen her working for other villains (Zoom, Chase). 

[LeighAn]

Just now, Mellowyellow said:

They could redeem her (I'm not sure how but this show will do what it will do) and then have her join the team and make googoo bitchy come hither eyes at Oliver while he's married to Felicity and STILL giving Laurel2 stank face.

This would return her right back to Laurel1 territory, keep the comic stans happy, let the actress carry on with her head canon and it would be as if Laurel never died and is hanging around watching Olicity raise their Olicity babies! Wouldn't particularly bother me!  

Why would they need to put her in the team when they already have a comically accurate Black Canary with the exact same power that the general audience actually likes AND who can act and look convincing in fights.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I'd take her being redeemed and going back to being the background character she was in season 4 over her being the big bad because to be good a season needs a strong big bad and she isn't it.

But if I had to take a guess I'd see her being a recurring villain and if they make her into a more grey character (like Merlyn) I think she might help the team occasionally or die for one of them or go back home. I don't see her becoming part of the team with Dinah being there already.

[Mellowyellow]

I'm with you @Midnight Lullaby. She never bothered me and I don't find Wild Dog's custody issues more riveting than her.

She can sit around and have random plots like she did in previous seasons. Every show has nuisance bits you have to sit through.

[strikera0]

If Black Siren ever gets redeemed, they should send her back to her home universe or ship her off to LOT. BS would make more sense on Legends than Dinah because she can't have a real life in Star City and the writers could develop a weird sister-like relationship between her and Sara. 

Edited May 12, 2017 by strikera0

[Cleanqueen]

24 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

And people need to learn that not everyone is expecting her to turn into BC or a goody 2 shoes hero. Olicity fans want them to go on a date to bath and body works and smell some candles....but not all of them want or care about that. 

Nah 90% of them want that the other 10% arent even watching it. And I don't know where olicity fans asked for that, please dont tell me you actually took MG's words seriously about what shippers want to see.

The show knew she failed as a superhero, I don't see them making her the main season 6 villain. We've been asking for a female big bad but not in the form of a failed superhero whose E2 doppleganger happens to be bad. She can be an anti hero, but personally i'd prefer her dead or back on her earth. There are far more compelling characters to bring back than her. 

[Morrigan2575]

S6 Big Bad? My money is on Talia, BS or Kovar (assuming he survives in somehow).

I think Vigilante will be a minor antagonist to keep the whole how does Oliver be GA and Mayor thing going.

Cayden James/Helix will be part of Felicity's S6 story.

Anatoly is a great suggestion but I don't want Anatoly to be the enemy.  I want Oliver and Anatoly to make peace and be besties again. 

[wonderwall]

Either way I think KC stans will be disappointed. Either she stays a villain with no redemption arc and is likely used to fuel Dinah's arc OR she gets redeemed then shipped back to E2 because there's no way she's going to stay on TA when her better replacement is still on said team. And I doubt she'd be on LoT considering it seems like that show is allergic to have her on as a regular. 

LOL either way I'm going to enjoy the ride.

[tangerine95]

I think Talia could be the big bad next season.It would be believable since she's a fighter that would be a challenge for Oliver,she's a step up from Chase since she was his mentor,has a history with Oliver and a reason to hate him and she has a recognizable comic book name.I just don't know if they would want to deal with a LoA related big bad again tho.

I would literally be shocked if BS was the big bad,I don't think they're that dumb.Not just because KC could never sell it and would be a serious downgrade after JS but because BS got taken down in an episode and was a minion of the big bad on 2 different shows.It didn't even take Oliver to beat her,Felicity and Curtis handled it.I mean idk how you sell that as a big bad lol.

Cayden James sounds more like a storyline for Felicity but maybe they want to go in a different direction next season and have the big bad be someone Oliver can't beat by just fighting and want the whole evil organization thing.

[wonderwall]

Quote

 

On a scale of 1-10, how emotional are the Black Siren/Quentin Lance scenes in the upcoming episode?

I will say that I think Paul’s performance next week is his finest work of the season.

 

Honestly though this was the best shade ever LMAO

[LeighAn]

29 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

Nah 90% of them want that the other 10% arent even watching it. And I don't know where olicity fans asked for that, please dont tell me you actually took MG's words seriously about what shippers want to see.

I read follow a lot of Olicity Twitter accounts and I don't think I've ever seen anyone ask Marc for Olicity to make bed bath and beyond visits. I have seen people ask for babies and for more 4A type scenes but I'm pretty sure Marc just made up the bed bath and beyond comment so he could look cool in front of his writer friends....you know like teenage boys do. 

[leopardprint]

32 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

I think Talia could be the big bad next season.It would be believable since she's a fighter that would be a challenge for Oliver,she's a step up from Chase since she was his mentor,has a history with Oliver and a reason to hate him and she has a recognizable comic book name.I just don't know if they would want to deal with a LoA related big bad again tho.

 

48 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

S6 Big Bad? My money is on Talia, BS or Kovar (assuming he survives in somehow).

I will eat my hat and your hats if the S6 Big Bad is female. (Also, I just want the LOA and all its knockoffs to go away) 

I agree she certainly has the background to be a Big Bad but with the way she's been presented this season as some sort of quasi assistant to Chase and whatever will happen with Nyssa in 523 (do not kill Nyssa, show!) I think her story will end this season. 

Edited May 12, 2017 by leopardprint

[wonderwall]

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

And people need to learn that not everyone is expecting her to turn into BC or a goody 2 shoes hero. Olicity fans want them to go on a date to bath and body works and smell some candles....but not all of them want or care about that. 

I am deep in the Olicity fandom and I've never seen anyone ask this lmao and if they did it was definitely not serious at all.

[leopardprint]

2 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Olicity fans want them to go on a date to bath and body works and smell some candles....but not all of them want or care about that.

I'm now imagining Oliver stocking up on discount hand soap while Felicity scoffs at the specs at the Apple Store. 

Edited May 12, 2017 by leopardprint

[Primal Slayer]

59 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

I am deep in the Olicity fandom and I've never seen anyone ask this lmao and if they did it was definitely not serious at all.

Someone had to ask it for MG to respond. Who knows if they were serious though. 

[Primal Slayer]

2 hours ago, Cleanqueen said:

Nah 90% of them want that the other 10% arent even watching it. And I don't know where olicity fans asked for that, please dont tell me you actually took MG's words seriously about what shippers want to see.

Either way, it's not all which is the point. Unless someone sees 100% of shippers Qs to MG, even 1 asking it is enough but when he said it, plenty made sure to say "they don't speak for me" 

[Primal Slayer]

2 hours ago, LeighAn said:

Same difference *shrug* Marc said she's an antagonist. Wendy said a she's only interested in bad ass villainy and the paps said that based on what they heard from what happens in the finale there unlikely to be a Black Siren redemption arch. If it quacks like a duck....

No not really. WM didn't even say anything about her being only interested in badass villainy.

[apinknightmare]

She got hit by a car and punched in the face and threatened by another bad person so I don't think she's interested in badass villainy at all. 

[lemotomato]

3 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

And people need to learn that not everyone is expecting her to turn into BC or a goody 2 shoes hero. Olicity fans want them to go on a date to bath and body works and smell some candles....but not all of them want or care about that. 

If you're using MG as a source for what you think Olicity fans want, he said he got questions about Oliver and Felicity going to "Bed Bath and Beyond" (IMO, probably joking questions, since SA and EBR were talking about how Olicity's first fight would be about towels in this interview). Please get your quotes right if you're accusing a fandom of anything.

Edited May 12, 2017 by lemotomato

[leopardprint]

MG said on Twitter that the cake was an inside joke.

Maybe Felicity baked a cake cupcakes burnt to a crisp and just covered them in frosting and poor Oliver is going to force himself to eat one. True love, y'all. 

Edited May 12, 2017 by leopardprint
misread tweet

[Sunshine]

3 hours ago, wonderwall said:

Honestly though this was the best shade ever LMAO

Why is that considered shade?  The only person who should be emotional in the scene is Lance.  BS knows who she's going after. Even if he's aware of her existence (I don't think he's been told onscreen), it must still be a shock to see the face of a daughter you've loved and lost belonging to a villain.  It's not a father/daughter reunion.

[wonderwall]

43 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

Why is that considered shade?

Because he was asked about 2 characters and only singled one of them out. Instead of answering the question and saying how emotional the scenes between BS/QL are, he chose to single out PB & KC wasn't good enough for a mention. He could've easily talked about how her menacing in that scene was great or just say both actors did a fine job in their scenes together but he didn't. 

To me it sounded like he thought PB carried their scenes (which he always does)... But ymmv

Edited May 12, 2017 by wonderwall