Spoiler Discussion Thread

[EmilyBettFan]

Funny the things start talking about ratings more. Me thinks you're pissed off Guggenheim and Amell.

Even though I like Stephen and the actors that work for the show you can't seriously make me believe they enjoy seeing those ratings. Yeah there's other venues you can watch the show at but, you've never seen this show after 4x15-4x16 lose 600,000 viewers. There was a reason for that.

[Midnight Lullaby]

MG doesn't seem to understand Olicity fans are also fans of the show in general and want to see a decent story unfold, not just Oliver and Felicity having a moment even if the rest is complete crap.

As a Olicity fan I couldn't care less if KC is back as BS. They killed the romance with Oliver in season 2 because the actors have no chemistry even if being GA/BC they were supposed to be the show's couple. The idea of putting Oliver with a random villain just because she looks like E1 LL is ridiculous to me. There would be no reason since she isn't BC anymore and the original reason to kill that romance, that the actors can't sell it, still stands. I wasn't worried when she was on the show, I'm not worried now.

As a fan that watches the episodes and not just the Olicity scenes on YouTube I'm annoyed she is back because it makes two years of what they wrote pointless to me. LL's death was supposed to be huge and bring the stakes back and a whole season was plotted around it; part of another season included how important her legacy was getting to the point where they replaced her with a girl with the same, but better, abilities and all to end up bringing another version of LL on the show on regular basis. And they could redeem her because of their creepy notion that women are interchangeable so if she looks like Laurel eventually they will make her act like her. Not mentioning also how we will have two metas with the same first name and abilities on a show that was supposed to be grounded in reality. There are a lot of ridiculous SLs on the show and this is a perfect example.

Edited April 2, 2017 by Midnight Lullaby

[theOAfc]

14 hours ago, tangerine95 said:

It is totally suprising that they got backlash over a character they introduced as a shady threat and then had Oliver date her and get into conflict with his sister over her. No one could have predicted that character will be so hated. Just making her an stall LI while they totally ignored olicity was enough but they just made it so much worse. 

I think the worst thing here is that Oliver was more upset that Thea dared to expose her than that she(the woman he met like two months ago) literally approached him and invaded his privacy to sell a story . I dont care whether she eventually fell in love with his manhood or his pure heart and decided to not deliver on her initial goal(thats a pretty cliche storyline so i saw it coming) i care that Oliver was once again presented by the script, unintentionally, in a twisted way,as someone stupid and disrespectful ,putting a random girlfriend above his siter and putting all the blame on Thea and Felicity while he had zero issue with what Susan did. They dont realise how bad they make him look. Where was his concern that she might loook into him and find out stuff? Why put so much blind faith into someone you met recently to the point of going against your closest people? Did he even care a little that Susan might found out about his team and expose them? Or is it ok to reveal secrets of other people as long as he trusts someone?

Its hilarious how last season the show acted like Oliver telling his closest people about the secret kid would be the worst thing evah yet Oliver telling Samantha about the team or this season Susan finding out about Oliver's identity is totally cool,as long as it is what Oliver thinks it ok. I get that the show is about him but twisting things around to present stuff a certain way so the lead doesnt look bad is awful writing.

They tried to turn it into Thea crossing lines and how Oliver is more mature and sees it as something problematic,meanwhile Oliver had zero issue sleeping with and defending a woman that crossed lines to sell a story about him and his family. If it was the other way around you know the show would paint Thea as the wrong party yet again.

If Oliver had a bigger and more realistic reaction to what Susan did,instead of blindly defending her and putting her above Thea,like this,i would even feel for the reporter. But this show is all about the unrealistic story and the contrived plot. 

[tangerine95]

30 minutes ago, theOAfc said:

I think the worst thing here is that Oliver was more upset that Thea dared to expose her than that she(the woman he met like two months ago) literally approached him and invaded his privacy to sell a story . I dont care whether she eventually fell in love with his manhood or his pure heart and decided to not deliver on her initial goal(thats a pretty cliche storyline so i saw it coming) i care that Oliver was once again presented by the script, unintentionally, in a twisted way,as someone stupid and disrespectful ,putting a random girlfriend above his siter and putting all the blame on Thea and Felicity while he had zero issue with what Susan did. They dont realise how bad they make him look. Where was his concern that she might loook into him and find out stuff? Why put so much blind faith into someone you met recently to the point of going against your closest people? Did he even care a little that Susan might found out about his team and expose them? Or is it ok to reveal secrets of other people as long as he trusts someone?

Its hilarious how last season the show acted like Oliver telling his closest people about the secret kid would be the worst thing evah yet Oliver telling Samantha about the team or this season Susan finding out about Oliver's identity is totally cool,as long as it is what Oliver thinks it ok. I get that the show is about him but twisting things around to present stuff a certain way so the lead doesnt look bad is awful writing.

They tried to turn it into Thea crossing lines and how Oliver is more mature and sees it as something problematic,meanwhile Oliver had zero issue sleeping with and defending a woman that crossed lines to sell a story about him and his family. If it was the other way around you know the show would paint Thea as the wrong party yet again.

If Oliver had a bigger and more realistic reaction to what Susan did,instead of blindly defending her and putting her above Thea,like this,i would even feel for the reporter. But this show is all about the unrealistic story and the contrived plot. 

Yeah they just totally had Oliver ignore the fact that she was investigating him. Oliver the guy who has trust issues with new people as we were shown as recently as with the newbies,  was okay with confessing to feeling incompetent as a mayor to a reporter that already tried to make him look bad publicly and backstabed his sister to do it, he was fine with her bribing his security to tell her where he was, was fine with her looking into his past and finding out about him being GA. Any normal person especially someone with something to hide would be uncomfortable at the least with all that but they had Oliver ignore logic for the sake of this storyline that served literally no purpose at the end. 

[theOAfc]

12 hours ago, leopardprint said:

Good point, and it's rude to his show's star, too. I guess he could say it's out of their control as well. 

Also, he made that ratings comment joke to the actors recently didn't he? 

MG thinks anything wrong with the show is the actors, the fans, the bad weather. Basically anything but his own writing choices.

[tv echo]

Another clarification...

I'm cautiously optimistic about Olicity. The problem is, I just don't trust these EPs anymore. I still have residual fear that they're leading us down a garden path, just to throw a surprise wrench into what we're expecting.

MG has been very careful in his use of words regarding BS. When asked if BS was going to be S6's Big Bad, he said that she would have a "significant role" and a "significant presence" as an "antagonist." The word "significant" means important, noteworthy, or having particular meaning. It doesn't necessarily mean a huge role or 23 episodes.  An "antagonist" is just someone who opposes the protagonist, not necessarily a villain.

I don't think the Queen Mansion will be tied to the Vigilante. MG said that the identity of the Vigilante will have more effect on other characters than Oliver (which is why they didn't want to deal with the Vigilante story this season, since this season is all about Oliver), and any connection to the Queen Mansion would be a connection to Oliver.

Edited April 2, 2017 by tv echo

[Chaser]

That BS quote could go either way so it's not a real answer.

They've called things 'significant' that were barely on the radar. 

By "antagonist" he could mean she's the Lackey to the Big Bad that pops in every once in awhile or he could mean she's just not a super friendly person in the bunker.

[way2interested]

7 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I'm cautiously optimistic about Olicity. The problem is, I just don't trust these EPs anymore. I still have residual fear that they're leading us down a garden path, just to throw a surprise wrench into what we're expecting.

I mean, s6 is/will be s6 so I can't say anything about that, but as for s5 Olicity is technically already the surprise wrench (WM and MG are just talking about Oliver and Felicity talking, Felicity needing Oliver in a different way for the Helix thing, and only now is MG mentioning that Oliver and Felicity's relationship is changed from 520 going into 522, so relatively it sounds like they want Oliver and Felicity possibly getting back together to be a *twist*), so they probably won't throw another twist onto a change for the rest of the season.

14 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I don't think the Queen Mansion will be tied to the Vigilante. MG said that the identity of the Vigilante will have more effect on other characters than Oliver (which is why they didn't want to deal with the Vigilante story this season, since this season is all about Oliver), and any connection to the Queen Mansion would be a connection to Oliver.

I don't think so either for similar reasons, but it's weird, his quote actually made me think of that JJJ article where they guessed that Vigilante was behind Helix since the way they phrased WM's quotes implied that Vigilante would then have more of an effect on Felicity than on Oliver as well.  Not that JJJ's theory is automatically right, but it's where my mind went.

[ComicFan777]

Whether I like it or not, I think BS would always be "significant" with respect to Oliver, whether she's in the season much or not, simply because she looks like Laurel - that in itself carries more weight with him than other villains.  At least going by what happened in 5.10, he has trouble separating her from real Laurel in his mind.

Edited April 2, 2017 by ComicFan777

[insomniadreams88]

7 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

trouble separating her from real Laurel

I think this might be a problem with BS in general.

Think about BS as a character and pretend she's not E2 LL. Would she be someone who could be a big bad? Probably not, if only because first, they'd need to have her get over her whole "if a villain threatens me, I side with them for my own self-preservation" kick.

There wouldn't even be talk about a possible redemption arc if BS was, say, E2 Isabel. 

Honestly? The best thing they can do first with BS is firmly establish her as a character everyone (Oliver, the team, EPs, fans, etc.) sees as very separate from LL. 

As for Vigilante, I wonder if he really is going to turn out to be Tinah's BF - maybe he wasn't in the beginning of the season, but once they realized he could be, they decided to move that to S6. Him having an effect on characters other than Oliver made me think of that possibility immediately.

[Primal Slayer]

I can see Siren being a sort of Seven of Nine type character for the show which I wouldnt mind.

[statsgirl]

I see the parallels in being someone who had to join the crew because her previous life was lost to her, except Black Siren can go back to Earth 2 if she ever stops being a villain long enough to get out of jail, but then Seven of Nine because the lead female on the show other than the captain and even became the main love interest for the show, taking Chatokay away from .  (I still think that Janeway/Chatokay was the more interesting romantic relationship.)

3 hours ago, tv echo said:

-- On what will happen to Olicity toward the end of this season, MG: "Um, Episode 520... is sort of - it's our big exploration of Oliver and Felicity's relationship, specifically their break-up. You know, one of the things that we did last year was, when they broke up and ended their engagement and Felicity walked out on Oliver, uh, it was really without a conversation. You know, it was sort of like Felicity hit her breaking point and she just walked. And Oliver and Felicity have never really had that adult conversation about, 'okay, why did we break up,' and 'what's that all about.' And in 520, that's - we really get underneath that in a way that we didn't have time to do last year."
 

You know, I could have sworn that WM and MG said at the start of the season that Oliver and Felicity had had that conversation over the summer and there was no need to revisit it.

This smells like a retcon because they now know that they messed up.

4 hours ago, theOAfc said:

They tried to turn it into Thea crossing lines and how Oliver is more mature and sees it as something problematic,meanwhile Oliver had zero issue sleeping with and defending a woman that crossed lines to sell a story about him and his family. If it was the other way around you know the show would paint Thea as the wrong party yet again.

I wonder if this was another part of the Susan backlash that they didn't anticipate -- that just about everyone in the audience would be on Thea's side in this rather than Oliver&Susan's and shocked at what terrible mini-MoiraThea did.

[Primal Slayer]

1 minute ago, statsgirl said:

I see the parallels in being someone who had to join the crew because her previous life was lost to her, except Black Siren can go back to Earth 2 if she ever stops being a villain long enough to get out of jail, but then Seven of Nine because the lead female on the show other than the captain and even became the main love interest for the show, taking Chatokay away from .  (I still think that Janeway/Chatokay was the more interesting romantic relationship.)

There really isn't anything for Siren to go back to on Earth 2. It seems like she was alone. And like Seven of Nine, who started out being the outsider who no one really trusted and still had her own way of doing things which caused plenty of conflict between her and Janeway/crew, I can see Siren being the same with Oliver and TA if they go about the redemption arc. 

[Hiveminder]

1 hour ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I think this might be a problem with BS in general.

Think about BS as a character and pretend she's not E2 LL. Would she be someone who could be a big bad? Probably not, if only because first, they'd need to have her get over her whole "if a villain threatens me, I side with them for my own self-preservation" kick.

There wouldn't even be talk about a possible redemption arc if BS was, say, E2 Isabel. 

Honestly? The best thing they can do first with BS is firmly establish her as a character everyone (Oliver, the team, EPs, fans, etc.) sees as very separate from LL. 

As for Vigilante, I wonder if he really is going to turn out to be Tinah's BF - maybe he wasn't in the beginning of the season, but once they realized he could be, they decided to move that to S6. Him having an effect on characters other than Oliver made me think of that possibility immediately.

If we're supposed to recognize him once the mask comes off I'm not sure how many other people he could be. 

[leopardprint]

Yes, they are directly contradicting themselves, @statsgirl, unless he's referring to the upcoming assumed flashback conversation. 

From @tv echo's excellent  pre season spoiler compilation: 

On 9/11/2016 at 6:26 AM, tv echo said:

MG: "We've talked a lot about how to deal with that... We always play the true five month gap between the season finale and season premiere. And every time we've talked about Oliver and Felicity should talk about their feelings, we realized, wow, that feels really wrong because they've had five months to talk about their feelings. Any mature couple, they've had that conversation."

Edited April 2, 2017 by leopardprint

[theOAfc]

I think Black Siren will be treated more like a guest star anti hero(depsite the regular contract KC has for the season) who will pretty much be redeemed towards the end of s6 only for her to go back to her earth eventually. I cant see her sticking around as a team member with the new canary being a regular but you never know with these writers. They are clearly trying a lot to please both sides of the fandom,at least that how i see it. So,they might treat BS more like Merlyn,force her into the narative until people are sick of her(arent they already?).

True story,i have seen many general fans hating this announcement,being fed up with characters always coming back. So i guess we'll see how this will be perceived. I dont expect anything non predictable with her "significant" role in the story though. 

[wonderwall]

I wouldn't really consider it a retcon if it hasn't been told on screen that they've already talked about the breakup and resolved it. 

However, I think that them resolving their issues on screen was not always the plan. The writers most likely finally figured out their shit during the season and figured that this talk is still necessary for people to see. Thank god they did because we as the audience deserves it.

I mean, I still think their plan always was to bring them back together but just not the way they finally scripted it.

Edited April 2, 2017 by wonderwall

[Midnight Lullaby]

From the way they talked about Oliver and Felicity having their talk during the summer it seems to me too having FBs dedicated to it wasn't always the plan and they thought they could avoid that part and reunite them anyway. Because they clearly have a deep understanding of their audience. Clearly. 

If it was always the plan it would have made more sense to have those FBs within the first episodes, not after 19. Of course I might be wrong but the way they talk doesn't help their cause.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I agree. I think they saw the comments from viewers criticizing Oliver & Felicity for being "robotic" (which is why Stephen himself used the word) and realized that they actually had to address the issues because viewers weren't letting go of it. And yeah, it's not a retcon really. I think it was pointed out weeks ago by @dtissagirl. It's just a shitty way of telling a story. They should have done it chronologically. But these are shitty writers so we're getting 20+ minutes of compressed storytelling instead of seeing something play out for 20 episodes. I want not just Felicity's issues addressed. I want to hear Oliver's, too. There's a way to "fix" the lie. If Oliver could admit to "liking" killing, he could also admit to being afraid to losing Felicity, hence the lying about the secret son (it's much more believable than talking about the safety of the kid but ignoring the fact mass murderer Malcolm Merlyn knows about his existence). He could throw in that in the timeline Felicity found out about the kid, she broke up with him (even though the circumstances were slightly different). But I'm sure we're not gonna get a justification for that friggin lie because Guggenheim still thinks it's all Felicity's fault and his precious idiotic Oliver HAD to.

Edited April 2, 2017 by SmallScreenDiva

[leopardprint]

I mean it may simply be they changed their minds and that's their perogative or they altered their timetable, but this sloppiness does not make me think that we're getting a satisfying resolution. I wish they paid more attention to maintaining throughlines on their seconday storylines. They get dropped and picked up so abruptly it's distracting, especially when their newly introduced storylines are not that compelling. 

ETA: Totally agree, @SmallScreenDiva. They also created and ignored the problem in 4b so waiting until 5b to address it is such a strange decision to me. I hope at the very least we get Felicity asking or Oliver explaining why it took so long for him to talk to her about it. 

Edited April 2, 2017 by leopardprint

[apinknightmare]

If they originally planned to skate over O/F's relationship issues and have since decided that's not a great idea - then good, I'm glad - because skating over it is shitty. And they're terrible at maintaining their stories - they've always let things drop inexplicably only to be picked up when it's more convenient. I'd like it if they got better at it too, but five years in, I doubt that's happening.

[wonderwall]

Tbh I don't care that this wasn't the original plan. As long as I get it I don't care. I deserve this lol

I guess I'll be in the minority because I think the writers course correcting is a good thing for both the show and shippers because at least they're still listening. It was either us getting an unearned reunion with them sticking to the plan or the writers changing their plans and us getting an earned reunion. 

Edited April 2, 2017 by wonderwall

[tangerine95]

If I just look at the interviews then it does seem to me that they wanted to skip over adressing any issues from the break up and were selling olicity as totally fine and focused on being friends and partners on the team. But if I look at just the show then the distance between Oliver and Felicity felt weird and forced, they weren't really friends because they only talked about team stuff, Felicity was hiding a bf while Oliver was waiting for them to get back together, Felicity wouldn't talk to Oliver about Havenrock because they don't have that kind of relationship anymore etc. So looking at all that it does seem like they just ignored their issues and their feelings and carried on and at some point  they would have to deal with it. Their interviews in general this season don't seem to reflect the actual show so who knows. 

Edited April 2, 2017 by tangerine95

[Trisha]

6 hours ago, theOAfc said:

I dont care whether she eventually fell in love with his manhood or his pure heart and decided to not deliver on her initial goal(thats a pretty cliche storyline so i saw it coming) 

Worst of all, we didn't even get that. As much as I originally hated the idea that Susan would decide not to do the story because of her feelings and/or his magic penis, that's still pretty much just head canon. We never got any scenes or convos of her feeling conflicted or changing her mind. At the impeachment it seemed like she wanted to out him but didn't have enough credibility, and then when she got her job back and told him she'd keep his secret, she said it was because he kept the city safe. It seemed like it had nothing to do with her feeling for him at all. When/why did she go from being shady to being on his side? It's a sign of terrible writing that I would prefer we saw the "magic penis" scenario because at least that would track. 

I think these writers have a terrible habit of getting an idea in their head in early seasons and sticking to it, even if it no longer makes sense. MG wanted to do the reporter storyline since S2 so he squeezed it in during the mayor year, even though he had no idea how to execute it or how to not make Oliver look terrible. Someone pointed out on Twitter that the same thing probably happened with the Samantha/secret kid plot. They had that idea when they planned to make Oliver and Laurel endgame and they stuck with it, even though it made much less sense of a source of conflict for Oliver and Felicity. 

Edited April 2, 2017 by Trisha

[SmallScreenDiva]

I can be happy about the course correcting — because honestly Arrow is just utterly boring for me when they keep Olicity apart — but also be pissed over the incompetence of this show runner and this writing team. And since none of us has seen Ep 20, we don't know if anything has actually been "corrected." That may be the plan and I'm crossing my fingers they pull it off but absolutely no faith at all in the way they'll do this. All I can really hope for is that Stephen and Emily turn on the chemistry to 1000% to sell whatever crap the writers come up to justify their bad story telling choices. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

6 minutes ago, Trisha said:

Someone pointed out on Twitter that the same thing probably happened with the Samantha/secret kid plot. They had that idea when they planned to make Oliver and Laurel endgame and they stuck with it, even though it made much less sense of a source of conflict for Oliver and Felicity. 

The thing about the kid is that with a slight adjustment they could still have made it work. Not with the lying because that was just ridiculous but Oliver deciding by himself to send the kid away because he could be considered a chink in his armor would have been an awesome conflict between Oliver & Felicity. On top of the whole deciding everything by himself, did he plan to send Felicity and their kid away, too? Imagine the POV of Felicity, whose father abandoned her. Or so she thought. There's so much character drama right there! They didn't have to resort to ruining Oliver by making him this idiot liar. But again, Guggenheim chose the worst story and told it in the worst way possible. That's talent right there.

[Hiveminder]

8 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Tbh I don't care that this wasn't the original plan. As long as I get it I don't care. I deserve this lol

I guess I'll be in the minority because I think the writers course correcting is a good thing for both the show and shippers because at least they're still listening. It was either us getting an unearned reunion with them sticking to the plan or the writers changing their plans and us getting an earned reunion. 

It's annoying though, because at this point, season five, with this subject, Olicity, they shouldn't have to course correct. It was bad enough that they had to course correct with Lauriver in the beginning. (Even ignoring the anti-chemistry, dude took her sister on a doomed sex cruise after cheating on her bunches of times. That was dumb writing.) Olicity was a gift, and they fucked it up. They had to put actual effort into screwing up this relationship. 

I'll be happy when Olicity get back together, earned or not, because they make sense together. But, I'm always going to be bitter that we didn't get to see what this relationship could have been. 

[theOAfc]

I think they mainly wanted to do the romance drama by using the kid. They focused more on the lies than on the fact that Oliver had to send him away in order to prοtect him or on the fact that Oliver was a dad, so it feels that their main goal with William showing was to use him as a plot for the olicity break up. Like someone said,i think they initially had in mind for the kid to be used as a way to cause drama in the Lauriver romance. But that died for obvious reasons and of course they decied to use it for olicity.

Edited April 2, 2017 by theOAfc

[SmallScreenDiva]

That's what I'm saying, they could still have broken Olicity up but at least with issues that were more organic to the characters. It would still have been about Olicity's relationship/romance. It could still have been used as a stall, as a plot for breakup. 

[apinknightmare]

The kid issue should've been Oliver not wanting to be involved in his life because of his past/Green Arrowness, and Felicity taking exception to that as someone who loves Oliver and knows the kind of man he is and knows that reasoning is dumb, and who also knows what it's like to grow up without a father. 

Edited April 2, 2017 by apinknightmare

[wonderwall]

15 minutes ago, Hiveminder said:

It's annoying though, because at this point, season five, with this subject, Olicity, they shouldn't have to course correct. It was bad enough that they had to course correct with Lauriver in the beginning. (Even ignoring the anti-chemistry, dude took her sister on a doomed sex cruise after cheating on her bunches of times. That was dumb writing.) Olicity was a gift, and they fucked it up. They had to put actual effort into screwing up this relationship. 

I'll be happy when Olicity get back together, earned or not, because they make sense together. But, I'm always going to be bitter that we didn't get to see what this relationship could have been. 

I don't think Oliver/Felicity are so changed to the point where we won't get to see what they could've been. Imo we'll probably see what could've been next season. 

Am I annoyed at how things turned out this season? Sure. But all of that is in the past and tbh I don't really like looking at what could've been. I'm more interested in the future and what that means. To me it just means we're going to go back to how they were last season before the breakup and maybe even stronger than they were before. 

Olicity was a gift and imo it still is. But I guess that's just me. 

[leopardprint]

I think they wanted the out of Samantha forcing him into it. If they went with the very real, very serious issue of Oliver's involvement in William's life, future children and Felicity's abandonment issues, they would have to write a mature, adult conversation and those can only happen offscreen. 

I totally agree it's good they course corrected but that also means they have a much bigger mess to clean up. We'll have to see if they can pull it off. 

[theOAfc]

21 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

That's what I'm saying, they could still have broken Olicity up but at least with issues that were more organic to the characters. It would still have been about Olicity's relationship/romance. It could still have been used as a stall, as a plot for breakup. 

Once upon a time(before 4x08) i thought they would have actually even connected this storyline to felicity's abandonment issues especially with her dad appearing out of nowhere but they wasted such potential. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

7 minutes ago, theOAfc said:

Once upon a time(before 4x08) i thought they would have actually even connected this storyline to felicity's abandonment issues especially with her dad appearing out of nowhere but they wasted such potential. 

Introducing her dad seemed so perfect for that SL that it's one of the things that made me think originally the plan was to reunite them at the end of the season. They made a parallel with what happened with her dad but it went nowhere and it was weird to me. My feeling was that either they were guaranteed more seasons and told/decided to slow things down or the feedback was not what they expected so they decided to give themselves more time to deal with the situation.

[spartan]

2 hours ago, theOAfc said:

I think Black Siren will be treated more like a guest star anti hero(depsite the regular contract KC has for the season) who will pretty much be redeemed towards the end of s6 only for her to go back to her earth eventually. I cant see her sticking around as a team member with the new canary being a regular but you never know with these writers. They are clearly trying a lot to please both sides of the fandom,at least that how i see it. So,they might treat BS more like Merlyn,force her into the narative until people are sick of her(arent they already?).

True story,i have seen many general fans hating this announcement,being fed up with characters always coming back. So i guess we'll see how this will be perceived. I dont expect anything non predictable with her "significant" role in the story though. 

eally? You believe that producers and writers will give a regular contract to katie just for a few appearances ?? i laugh
It will be regular, I'm sure she will be eventually in all episodes

[bijoux]

Willa's still a regular this year, you can count her appearances pretty easily. So is Paul Blackthorne and if Lance was ever featured in every episode of the season, it was a really long time ago.

[Morrigan2575]

20 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Willa's still a regular this year, you can count her appearances pretty easily. So is Paul Blackthorne and if Lance was ever featured in every episode of the season, it was a really long time ago.

I don't the he ever was.

Willa will get 15 episodes that's, up 1 from the claimed 14.

Paul's usually gets 18 episodes per season.

Barrowman got 14 one season and 18 another. I believe he negotiates a new contract every year.

I'll look when I get home to check Josh Segara and Neal M episode counts.

Edited April 2, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[theOAfc]

13 minutes ago, spartan said:

eally? You believe that producers and writers will give a regular contract to katie just for a few appearances ?? i laugh
It will be regular, I'm sure she will be eventually in all episodes

I totally believe that because they have done it with John B ,Willa ,Paul etc...

She will be in 13-14 episodes imo. 

[spartan]

9 minutes ago, theOAfc said:

I totally believe that because they have done it with John B ,Willa ,Paul etc...

She will be in 13-14 episodes imo. 

I know precisely it is also in relation to their financial means, so they did not need to put her regularly.
but we wil see

[lemotomato]

How did that "regular across 3 shows" contract work out for her this season?

[Primal Slayer]

They obviously mislead people with that 3 show contract but now that she is actually a series regular for Arrow, she will be guaranteed pay for a minimum of 13 episodes. Now if they actually use her that's a different story but that's just throwing money away. 

[Hiveminder]

54 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

I don't think Oliver/Felicity are so changed to the point where we won't get to see what they could've been. Imo we'll probably see what could've been next season. 

Am I annoyed at how things turned out this season? Sure. But all of that is in the past and tbh I don't really like looking at what could've been. I'm more interested in the future and what that means. To me it just means we're going to go back to how they were last season before the breakup and maybe even stronger than they were before. 

Olicity was a gift and imo it still is. But I guess that's just me. 

Honestly, I'll be happy with Olicity being together no matter how it happens because they're good together. I'll still be able to enjoy it. I'm not saying we'll never get to see what they could have been together, I'm saying the journey to that point has been screwed up. And I'm not just bothered by that because of Olicity, but because this isn't the only thing they've messed up, and it gives me a pretty good idea that they are going to keep doing dumb stuff like this. 

I'm not the kind of person who needs the journey to be perfect in order to enjoy the destination, but it's nice when journey makes sense. Imagine if there'd been a more natural progression to their relationship. Have Oliver realize he loves Felicity a little sooner in season two, maybe have them actually date for a while in season three. They can live together in season four but not get engaged. The BMD can be about Oliver making decisions without Felicity's input and her father issues. Maybe Felicity found the ring and tells Oliver not to propose to her because she still wants to be with him, but they have stuff to work on before she can agree to marry him. Season five has them working on their relationship. Proposal in the 100th episode or maybe not. Either way, Oliver breaks up with Felicity after 5x17. They get back together in 5x20. Proposal in 5x23, or wedding if Oliver already proposed. Season six is Olicity, established, solid, and in the background. 

Done right, there's plenty of room for the rest of the storylines with a little adjustment. It could have been great. 

[theOAfc]

10 minutes ago, spartan said:

I know precisely it is also in relation to their financial means, so they did not need to put her regularly.
but we wil see

If her team demanded regular contract after being asked to appear in some episodes as a guest star,then maybe they came to an agreement. Whats gonna change for sure is the billing. She is probably not gonna get paid as much as she used to. So maybe its a win win situation. 

3 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

They obviously mislead people with that 3 show contract but now that she is actually a series regular for Arrow, she will be guaranteed pay for a minimum of 13 episodes. Now if they actually use her that's a different story but that's just throwing money away. 

I think they threw money away a lot last season when they paid her for many episodes and she did minimal job. I heard she was paid a lot compared to other actors that had bigger screentime/work to do.

Edited April 2, 2017 by theOAfc

[Primal Slayer]

Im sure she was but that's just the nature of the business. She is bigger then all the newbies, just as Barrowman probably gets paid more per episode in LOT then majorityof the cast get per episode. 

Star TrekTNG brought in a veteran actress in s2 and she made much more then majority of the cast outside Patrick Stewart just because she was bigger in the industry. 

[leopardprint]

Guys, but does this mean the Picture of Doom will be making future appearances? 

[Primal Slayer]

But i doubt her team strong armed them into a series regular contract, that's a big commitment and if they dont like her that much then there is no need to bring her back. 

[theOAfc]

Quote

 

Im sure she was but that's just the nature of the business. 

 

 

 

Yeah im just saying,they clearly didnt want to write much for her character and she didnt have to do much last season yet her billing was big. So it was waste of money. 

1 minute ago, Primal Slayer said:

But i doubt her team strong armed them into a series regular contract, that's a big commitment and if they dont like her that much then there is no need to bring her back. 

Again,that depends on whether or not they will actually use her much next season. I guess we'll see.

Edited April 2, 2017 by theOAfc

[Primal Slayer]

2 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

Guys, but does this mean the Picture of Doom will be making future appearances? 

It'll probably be in the final but i dont see the picture coming up ever again after that. 

[statsgirl]

I don't think these EPs know how to tie threads together.  I also think that they're scared of making Felicity too important to the show and tying Oliver/William and Felicity's abandonment issues would be heading in that direction.

1 hour ago, tangerine95 said:

If I just look at the interviews then it does seem to me that they wanted to skip over adressing any issues from the break up and were selling olicity as totally fine and focused on being friends and partners on the team. But if I look at just the show then the distance between Oliver and Felicity felt weird and forced, they weren't really friends because they only talked about team stuff, Felicity was hiding a bf while Oliver was waiting for them to get back together, Felicity wouldn't talk to Oliver about Havenrock because they don't have that kind of relationship anymore etc. So looking at all that it does seem like they just ignored their issues and their feelings and carried on and at some point  they would have to deal with it. Their interviews in general this season don't seem to reflect the actual show so who knows. 

Yeah, I shouldn't have said retcon because it's not a retcon in terms of what's on screen but rather in the EPs plans for the show. It feels like after the BMD they were scared of any relationship stuff, attributing the dislike of the storyline to addressing the relationships rather than how badly the storyline  was written and so they started s5 determined that all that icky stuff was in the past, the talk between Oliver and Felicity had been held over the summer and there was no need to deal with it any more,

And then when the complaints kept coming, not just from Olicity fans but reviewers too, they realized they needed to backtrack and address it.

While I'm thrilled that they finally are, I'm not sure about an episode that is about Olicity present and flashback.  I"m worried that it might be too much Olicity and get more complaints and that will cause them to back off of Olicity again next season.  I expect Oliver and Felicity will end the season together but I'd like more of 401 - 407 rather than 5a because MG and WM are afraid of angering the comic book stans.

55 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

The thing about the kid is that with a slight adjustment they could still have made it work. Not with the lying because that was just ridiculous but Oliver deciding by himself to send the kid away because he could be considered a chink in his armor would have been an awesome conflict between Oliver & Felicity. On top of the whole deciding everything by himself, did he plan to send Felicity and their kid away, too? Imagine the POV of Felicity, whose father abandoned her. Or so she thought. There's so much character drama right there! They didn't have to resort to ruining Oliver by making him this idiot liar. But again, Guggenheim chose the worst story and told it in the worst way possible. That's talent right there.

It would have been so easy to tie Oliver's decisions around William to his whole way of treating people in his life. And it would have been much more satisfying too.

[bijoux]

So, if JS is too busy "being ABSOLUTELY TERRIFYING" while SA is away at WrestleMania, it doesn't seem far-fetched to imagine that he may be filming with EBR. There's got to be a culmination there. I realize it's Sunday, but I'm assuming SA is returning tomorrow and that's when JS is filming.