Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Chaser]

2 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Nah, i have my heart set on Alison Mack guesting on This is Us, she could be an NYC/Stage Actor that Kevin meets on auditions ?

I had not thought about that. Me want! Me want!

[bijoux]

6 hours ago, Chasity said:

That foundry pic has to be from the 100th episode because there is no way they can go back there with all the people on the team now.

What foundry pic?

[Chaser]

The photo that SA tweeted. It looks like the Foundry in S1.

[Morrigan2575]

It's in the spoiler only thread

[Guest]

Maybe Prometheus is hanging out in the old foundry where he stalks GA's movements. Or would that be too interesting for these writers? LOL.

[Morrigan2575]

34 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Maybe Prometheus is hanging out in the old foundry where he stalks GA's movements. Or would that be too interesting for these writers? LOL.

That still wouldn't work. The picture is of S1 Foundry, the foundry was redone before S2. So no one can be hanging out there since it doesn't exist. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

That still wouldn't work. The picture is of S1 Foundry, the foundry was redone before S2. So no one can be hanging out there since it doesn't exist. 

I thought the foundry was basically destroyed when the Police stormed down there in s3? So I guess at a push it could've been cleared out and stripped back to basics.

But you're probably right. I'm just making guesses at this point.

[Morrigan2575]

3 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I thought the foundry was basically destroyed when the Police stormed down there in s3? So I guess at a push it could've been cleared out and stripped back to basics.

But you're probably right. I'm just making guesses at this point.

What I'm saying is that the picture that SA Tweeted was of how the foundry looked in S1. THAT foundry doesn't exist anymore because before S2 started Felicity gave it a makeover and the show rebuilt the set.

So Prometheus can't be hanging out in the S1 Foundry, it doesn't exist, it was done over in S2.  

[Guest]

Right, okay. So must be a flashback then. 

[Thundercatmary]

Or something to do with a Flashpoint change?

[Morrigan2575]

If it is, it's something they reverse in episode.  No way they're abandoning that expensive new set they built last season.

[foreverevolving]

Maybe they're showing us what it would have been like if Diggle and Felicity would not have joined up?

[way2interested]

Well, MG said that 509 would also be a 100th episode of sorts, so the old lair might have something to do with that.

[BkWurm1]

On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 6:51 PM, Angel12d said:

A messy drunken one night stand is better than actual relationship, IMO. I don't want it to happen and I certainly don't want to watch it but if I had to choose, that would be it. 

 

On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 10:33 PM, apinknightmare said:

Some thought he'd have a relationship with her, some thought he wouldn't - I don't recall anyone thinking he'd have a one-night stand he'd immediately regret, so that seems pretty newsworthy - provided there's anything to the "spoiler." 

I have to confess I've been thinking the whole time that the Reporter would be just a hook up and at first I thought that would be a good thing (rather than having to endure a relationship) but lately it's occurred to me that the reporter is the "first pancake" aka the one they don't care if all the fan's hate.   (Which also means no one cares if we hate Mayo or not, lol) But Carly as a one off hook up does tell me they have another bird in mind for him.  They may not actually go there with the replacement Canary, but I do think they will absolutely want us to think it might happen.  I'm still clinging to the hope that while Oliver might try to recruit someone as a replacement Black Canary (aka a good guy) he will end up with one a whole lot more grey and thus he finally agrees to keep the spirit of his promise to Laurel (let others help) rather than the word of it (make someone else take the name specifically)  

[Thundercatmary]

10 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

 

I have to confess I've been thinking the whole time that the Reporter would be just a hook up and at first I thought that would be a good thing (rather than having to endure a relationship) but lately it's occurred to me that the reporter is the "first pancake" aka the one they don't care if all the fan's hate.   (Which also means no one cares if we hate Mayo or not, lol) But Carly as a one off hook up does tell me they have another bird in mind for him.  They may not actually go there with the replacement Canary, but I do think they will absolutely want us to think it might happen.  I'm still clinging to the hope that while Oliver might try to recruit someone as a replacement Black Canary (aka a good guy) he will end up with one a whole lot more grey and thus he finally agrees to keep the spirit of his promise to Laurel (let others help) rather than the word of it (make someone else take the name specifically)  

Honestly it will be hard enough for me to accept another Canary, if they try and hook her up with Oliver it would send it into negative territory for me. It's just gross to me, first sisters and now all the Canaries? I wouldn't put anything past these writers but I think it would be a horrible idea.

[Cleanqueen]

Listen if by mid season finale, the state of olicity isn't known and we don't know where their relationship is headed then I am out and will catch up on the show when I am bored. Talks of Tina's and Canaries just makes my head hurt. Personally speaking I don't think Oliver will have any future love interests, I think by mid season finale they've decided to get olicity back on their train. If we're going to sit through another season of ambiguity then I am sure thats more drama filled than season 4 ever was. 

[way2interested]

I think there still might be some wiggle room to an extent for the newCanary and Oliver depending on how these first episodes go. There was already some damage control reacting to a reaction from a badly worded response that implied that Olicity was off of the table relationship-wise for the whole year, and ratings on both viewers and on social media were notably down. Granted, ratings for two episodes does not necessarily make a pattern (not to mention 503's ratings are also going to be off given the presidential debate also on that night), but a continuing pattern could push some re-writes/re-thinking for the latter of 5b on any potential relationship for Oliver.

Reactions from 408 made 414 about defending Oliver. Reactions from the flashforward in 401/409/ending of 409 made 410 have a new flashforward that proved Felicity wasn't in the grave (since that flashforward was actually filmed around 414 IIRC). Despite MG saying that fans don't influence them, they still might influence the network enough to push for some restructuring. "Tina" is introduced in 511, but actual relationship progression (possible lunges for ~515 or something) might end up being tabled by the network in lieu of pushing something for Olicity for ratings/sm buzz instead.

Idk, they still might go through with it (since they still went through with the bmd), but I feel like there is some wiggle room. Then again, this will probably be just a whole re-do of s2 for a last minute *twist* for the end of s5 of Oliver/Felicity declaring his/her love for the other.

Edited October 17, 2016 by way2interested

[statsgirl]

Honestly, I can't imagine why they would try to put Oliver with another Canary except to please the comic fanboys who refuse to see that this TV show isn't a literal translation of the comics.  And I thought there were too few of them to seriously affect the ratings.

Olicity is not only a twitter bump, it's generally well thought of by people who didn't come from the comics, including main stream reviewers.  Why would they risk doing something that would turn off a substantial amount of the fanbase so that they could say "Look, we put Oliver with the Black Canary again"?

38 minutes ago, way2interested said:

 "Tina" is introduced in 511, but actual relationship progression (possible lunges for ~515 or something) might end up being tabled by the network in lieu of pushing something for Olicity for ratings/sm buzz instead.

Idk, they still might go through with it (since they still went through with the bmd), but I feel like there is some wiggle room. Then again, this will probably be just a whole re-do of s2 for a last minute *twist* for the end of s5 of Oliver/Felicity declaring his/her love for the other.

I suspect pushing Olicity at that point would be the smart thing to do.  If they wait till the end of s5 to put them back together, a season of bad outside love interests is going to have a lot of fans leaving, I suspect.

[kes0704]

It they pair Oliver with a third Canary I will have found my breaking point and the show and I will have to part ways.

[Password]

What I find interesting about the first 2 episodes of the season is that if you have no previous knowledge of their relationship, you'd never realize they were so close to being married. They genuinely seem to be in the ambiguous phase where they act "together" but haven't confessed any sort of feelings for one another. I guess that's why's the first Olicity - ish episode is only episode 5 be a use they'll actually acknowledge last season. 

Frankly I don't want to see Oliver sleep with the reporter. I'd gotten use to "relationship", Oliver so random hookup Oliver churns my stomach. 

[BkWurm1]

2 hours ago, way2interested said:

I think there still might be some wiggle room to an extent for the newCanary and Oliver depending on how these first episodes go. There was already some damage control reacting to a reaction from a badly worded response that implied that Olicity was off of the table relationship-wise for the whole year, and ratings on both viewers and on social media were notably down. Granted, ratings for two episodes does not necessarily make a pattern (not to mention 503's ratings are also going to be off given the presidential debate also on that night), but a continuing pattern could push some re-writes/re-thinking for the latter of 5b on any potential relationship for Oliver.

Reactions from 408 made 414 about defending Oliver. Reactions from the flashforward in 401/409/ending of 409 made 410 have a new flashforward that proved Felicity wasn't in the grave (since that flashforward was actually filmed around 414 IIRC). Despite MG saying that fans don't influence them, they still might influence the network enough to push for some restructuring. "Tina" is introduced in 511, but actual relationship progression (possible lunges for ~515 or something) might end up being tabled by the network in lieu of pushing something for Olicity for ratings/sm buzz instead.

Idk, they still might go through with it (since they still went through with the bmd), but I feel like there is some wiggle room. Then again, this will probably be just a whole re-do of s2 for a last minute *twist* for the end of s5 of Oliver/Felicity declaring his/her love for the other.

Yeah, the signs of damage control that we've seen in social media give me hope.  Not sure if they'd be willing to not go there if they've already decided this is the story they want to tell, but the reaction last week when it seemed like Olicity fans were reaching their breaking point, gives me hope that maybe they don't intend to try to go all in on a new Canary love interest. I really expect them to swing in close, but maybe it's always been the plan to swerve off in a different direction.  I have to think that would be a much better story to tell than Oliver sleeping with another woman in black.  

All this talk of Canaries and love interests makes me wish I'd been more receptive to Evelyn.  If they'd just made her the new Black Canary then we wouldn't be worrying about Oliver hooking up with her.  :(

[Thundercatmary]

The thing is I would like a really great Canary, just that I have an issue with having a new BC since Sara is still around.  Also making Oliver bang every Canary to exist ruins it for me. Can we just have a bad ass woman fighting who doesn't give a heck about Oliver? :D

[Sakura12]

I wish they'd just give Sara back the color of her outfit. Then they'd have a BC who is a badass martial artist. She also seems a lot more into women these days so we could just get a friendship and occasional crime fighting partners between Green Arrow and Black Canary.

[Morrigan2575]

If they EVER go with a new Black Canary (and i don't think they will), it should be Sara.

I still think that Tina is NOT an LI for Oliver and is NOT the new Black Canary. I think WB wants more/new characters they can merchandise not the 3rd iteration of a character.  Let's face it you're looking at some serious dismissing returns on actions figures with that one.

[tv echo]

They may be waiting to see the dailies for scenes shot with SA and whoever plays the new Canary (assuming there is one) before deciding whether or not to bump up her role from one-shot guest star to recurring (with potential regular status).  It could be they're hoping for another breakout character/star like Felicity/EBR in S1.

[dtissagirl]

Even if they are expecting chemistry that can compete with what SA and EBR have established, to make a new character into a serious long term love interest they're gonna need time. It took them 11 episodes to bring EBR from one day player to completely integrated to the A-plot -- that happened in 114. Then it took from 114 to 223 to establish her as the One Woman their original premise demanded.

They also have to kill Felicity dead for real, no take backs, for any of this to actually work.

[quarks]

They're presumably hoping that pretty much everyone they cast ends up being a breakout character/star - that's how Wild Dog is getting framed, for instance.

[quarks]

7 hours ago, Thundercatmary said:

The thing is I would like a really great Canary, just that I have an issue with having a new BC since Sara is still around.  Also making Oliver bang every Canary to exist ruins it for me. Can we just have a bad ass woman fighting who doesn't give a heck about Oliver? :D

I think we already do - Baby Canary/Evelyn.  That "sixteen year old" bit in the script was thrown in there to emphasize that she's not going to be one of Oliver's love interests.

And before that, Arrow had Vixen, Tatsu, China White, Amanda Waller, and - more arguably, I guess - Nyssa.  

[tv echo]

Wil Traval will be at Grand Rapids Comic-Con next weekend.  I wonder if he'll talk about his upcoming Human Target appearance on Arrow.

[statsgirl]

If they wanted Tina to be a breakout character for sure, wouldn't they cast a more established actress?  Yes, an unknown EBR was a breakout but 1) they weren't expecting that and 2) there was a partner/LI hole that needed filling.

[quarks]

25 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

If they wanted Tina to be a breakout character for sure, wouldn't they cast a more established actress?  Yes, an unknown EBR was a breakout but 1) they weren't expecting that and 2) there was a partner/LI hole that needed filling.

Two of the breakout characters in the Arrowverse shows were unknown when they were cast - EBR/Felicity and Carlos Valdes/Cisco Ramon.

[GirlvsTV]

Caity Lotz got the first BC nod and she was a total unknown.

Edited October 17, 2016 by GirlvsTV

[Jessie2009]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

If they wanted Tina to be a breakout character for sure, wouldn't they cast a more established actress?  Yes, an unknown EBR was a breakout but 1) they weren't expecting that and 2) there was a partner/LI hole that needed filling.

Have they cast her yet? I haven't heard anything announcing it.

[Sunshine]

Not sure where to put this, but SA mentioned in his FB live video that in the last 5 weeks he has shot 5 crossover episodes.  3 would be Flash 3.08, Arrow 5.08, & Legends 2.07 (?).  Not sure if he is going to SuperGirl at all.  Wonder if the other 2 are him on other shows or someone crossing over to Arrow. 

[Sunshine]

2 hours ago, Jessie2009 said:

Have they cast her yet? I haven't heard anything announcing it.

They probably have but aren't announcing it yet.  They are shooting 5.09 now and we think she's showing up in 5.11 so an announcement should be coming soon.

[Morrigan2575]

6 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

Not sure where to put this, but SA mentioned in his FB live video that in the last 5 weeks he has shot 5 crossover episodes.  3 would be Flash 3.08, Arrow 5.08, & Legends 2.07 (?).  Not sure if he is going to SuperGirl at all.  Wonder if the other 2 are him on other shows or someone crossing over to Arrow. 

Could be his "math" problems resurfacing ?

[looptab]

3 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Could be his "math" problems resurfacing ?

I had the same thought, hahaha.

[Sunshine]

Ha! SA made a point of saying 5 episodes not 5 shows.  He even held up his hand (maybe to help him count?!)  

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, Sunshine said:

 He even held up his hand (maybe to help him count?!) 

Mean!

 

(and probably, yes)

[statsgirl]

5 hours ago, quarks said:

Two of the breakout characters in the Arrowverse shows were unknown when they were cast - EBR/Felicity and Carlos Valdes/Cisco Ramon.

 

4 hours ago, GirlvsTV said:

Caity Lotz got the first BC nod and she was a total unknown.

Point taken that both EBRand Caity Lotz were unknowns but I think they were both intended to be throw-away characters.  Felicity was just an easter egg till SA broke character and smiled and they were looking for a love interest to replace Laurel, and Sara was intended to be a s2 character and then thrown away so that Laurel could put on her leathers.

If they're serious about having a new Black Canary to replace Laurel and be a new love interest for Oliver, they will need more than an unknown unless she's as amazing as EBR and CL are.  That's why I think they should have been looking as an actress at least as established as Katrina Law.

Carlos Valdez is in a different category. He's a good actor but I think Cisco became so popular because he is AK's Mary Sue.  (Personally, I was starting to hate him last season for that reason.)

[bijoux]

9 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Could be his "math" problems resurfacing ?

Wonder of wonders, it might actually not be the case. I'm watching his latest FB video right now and he mentions having filmed some stuff for 510 already. Counting The Flash, Arrow and LoT parts of the crossover, that we know he's been filming, that's four episodes. It could be that he and Barry show up at the end of Supergirl or something.

[looptab]

Could be that KC is actually appearing as BS in 510? That'd make it a crossover, since BS is technically a Flash character.

[bijoux]

It doesn't need to be a crossover, I think he said five episodes, not necessarily crossover episodes.

[looptab]

I thought the point was that he said he had been shooting 5 crossover episodes?

IDK, I didn't watch the video, just going from what's said in here.

Edited October 18, 2016 by looptab

[bijoux]

The correct quote is, "five weeks of crossover craziness that consisted of five different episodes of television, not five different shows, but five different episodes of television being filmed simultaneously." I can't believe I just went to rewatch one of Steve's videos. Thankfully, this was at the start. But yeah, it does sound like crossover stuff, so it could be Flash 310 and Arrow 510.

[tv echo]

FYI (posting here because of spoilery references)...

Why I’m Optimistic About Season Five of Arrow
Laura Schinner  October 13, 2016
http://www.tvovermind.com/arrow-2/im-optimistic-season-five-arrow

[bijoux]

Do we have any clue when Adrian Chase is showing up? Aside from that police sketch of a skier who moonlights as a vigilante, there haven't been any clues and I don't remember it actually ever being said when he will first appear.

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

Hi guys.  Just moved a nice big spoiler summary by  tvecho into the Spoiler Archive so don't worry that it disappeared.

[Sunshine]

503 or 504 There is a BTS photo around this time with MM & the guy playing Wild Dog.

[Sunshine]

53 minutes ago, looptab said:

Could be that KC is actually appearing as BS in 510? That'd make it a crossover, since BS is technically a Flash character.

I was just thinking she might have filmed both 508 & 510 at the same time so they wouldn't have to bring her back. I assume she is still shooting her film.