Spoiler Discussion Thread

[dtissagirl]

Thank you, Carrie-Ann! Now that I've watched it again, since he segued from the date to Felicity going to Central City, I'm not so sure anymore about F/O having two separate discussions? Ack.

Edited July 30, 2014 by dancingnancy

[apinknightmare]

You're right, it was Kreisberg, at about :50, here: 

 

Yeah, I can't tell from that if there's one discussion or two. I don't know why, I just got the impression that things were pretty final between Oliver and Felicity at the end of the first ep, after the date, so I don't really know why they'd have a second discussion about their relationship? I think it has to do with Oliver telling Felicity about Barry and encouraging her to go visit him. Maybe it's also a bit of a coping mechanism? Pushing her toward Barry to try to get her out of the foundry because he's having trouble being around her after their 'declarations'? IDK.

Edited July 30, 2014 by apinknightmare

[SmallScreenDiva]

Here's a quote from another interview with Stephen. My ears perked up over the his use of the word "fling." Wonder if he is aware of the signifcance ;)

 

"We talk about some pretty important stuff in the premiere, and if Oliver were to have a fling, it would undermine some of that. So I think that, uh… the cavalcade of women is going to slow down. Or stop, as the case may be.”

[dtissagirl]

What's funny is that if they really give us a season of celibate!Oliver, they can totally get away with him banging everything that moves in the flashbacks. It would be just one more contrast between becoming a cold-blooded killer vs. becoming Green Arrow.

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

The more interviews I read/hear the more I'm beginning to wonder if they are going balls-to-the-wall Olicity. It sounds like they are going to address their feelings for each other, but they aren't really going to jump off the cliff. AK even reiterates during the ComicCon panel the relationship between Oliver and Laurel. I am not going to back and watch again but he suggested their intimacy. If the panel didn't bore me so much I might go find the exact quote. The moderator brings up Olicity repeatedly to stir up the crowd but no one really says much except Berlanti. It is really the only thing Berlanti commented on. He only said it would be addressed and it was genuine. 

 

I'm beginning to think they are going to give us a celibate Oliver. I'm not so sure it is because of his feelings for Felicity though. He might care and maybe he wants to be a better man. Amell's "one woman" comment might mean more he isn't ready for a relationship and he isn't satisfied with ONS anymore. 

 

There wouldn't be much surprise if at the end of S3 there has been only one date for Olicity. I wonder if the EPs are trying to counteract the popularity of the couple by putting a nail in its coffin. They could address the I-love-you which rocked Twitter and hope Ray and Felicity get the traction to overwhelm Olicity. Especially if Oliver's past is so horrifying Olicity comes to a halt as a romantic couple. Another season or two of "Laurel's exciting journey" and maybe the EPs are hoping the fans will forget Olicity and sister-swapping.

[apinknightmare]

The more interviews I read/hear the more I'm beginning to wonder if they are going balls-to-the-wall Olicity. It sounds like they are going to address their feelings for each other, but they aren't really going to jump off the cliff. AK even reiterates during the ComicCon panel the relationship between Oliver and Laurel. I am not going to back and watch again but he suggested their intimacy. If the panel didn't bore me so much I might go find the exact quote. The moderator brings up Olicity repeatedly to stir up the crowd but no one really says much except Berlanti. It is really the only thing Berlanti commented on. He only said it would be addressed and it was genuine. 

 

I'm beginning to think they are going to give us a celibate Oliver. I'm not so sure it is because of his feelings for Felicity though. He might care and maybe he wants to be a better man. Amell's "one woman" comment might mean more he isn't ready for a relationship and he isn't satisfied with ONS anymore. 

 

There wouldn't be much surprise if at the end of S3 there has been only one date for Olicity. I wonder if the EPs are trying to counteract the popularity of the couple by putting a nail in its coffin. They could address the I-love-you which rocked Twitter and hope Ray and Felicity get the traction to overwhelm Olicity. Especially if Oliver's past is so horrifying Olicity comes to a halt as a romantic couple. Another season or two of "Laurel's exciting journey" and maybe the EPs are hoping the fans will forget Olicity and sister-swapping.

 

See, I don't think Oliver and Felicity will be together at all this season - if they are, it won't be until the end. But if the EP's goal is to go all out and have them admit feelings for each other, that's not at all the way to go about putting the nail in the coffin of their relationship. If they wanted to do that - Oliver's "I love you" would remain ambiguous. If he flat-out admits to her that he loves her (which all signs are indicating that he will), the writers have given the audience hope that they'll be together. So, introducing Ray will be for naught - people might like them together, and some people might go all-out for that pairing, but now that we know Oliver and Felicity love each other, how can we not root for it? I mean, MG flat-out said he thinks they're in love with each other.

 

From a writing standpoint, if Oliver admits that he loves Felicity, in order for him to grow as a person, he has to stay true to whatever reason it is that he gives her for not wanting to be with her. So, if he tells her he can't be with her because being the Arrow comes first, and he remains celibate for the year, IMO it's not because he's not satisfied with one-night stands, it's because he doesn't want to be in a romantic relationship if he can't be in one with her. And he can't be in one with her because his mission comes first (or whatever Arrowy reason he gives her).

 

I think the producers got a taste of what happens when you mess with a large fanbase like they did in the finale. They're hyping up this love between Oliver and Felicity to the point where it's going to seriously backfire if they don't deliver. Now, they've been tempering expectations - SA said that admitting their feelings doesn't mean they can be together, every one of the EPs has said that Oliver (and to a certain extent, the rest of the team) isn't sure that he/they can have a life outside of their mission. This season is a lesson learned, I think. I would be very surprised if they put all of this out there not to follow through with it at some point. Maybe not this season, but next.

Edited July 30, 2014 by apinknightmare

[dtissagirl]

Official DC Comics coverage of SDCC video:

The only Arrow-related thing they talk about is Oliver/Felicity, and Amell volunteers the "only woman in Oliver's life is Felicity" line. So, yeah, the PR machine behind all companies involved knows exactly what to promote as widely as possible. They know their audience.

Edited July 30, 2014 by dancingnancy

[Orion]

I know it's tempting to believe this is to good to be true but remember what Guggenheim said, "they love each other" and what SA said that, the premiere is always a microcosm for the that season. So we already know enough about the first episode and what the producers have said to know what the theme is, Identity- Can Oliver be both the Arrow and Oliver Queen. "How much of his humanity does he want back. Does he want a love life? Does he want his company back?" The answers to those questions have to be yes by the finale or Oliver's season long arc will be a failure. This season is about Oliver wanting things he thinks he can't have. So by the end he has to see that, yes, I can be both my superhero and man. Now that doesn't mean by the end of the season he will have those things; but it does mean that he will want those things and acknowledge that he is able to have them.

 

Last season Oliver would have never, under penalty of torture, admitted that he loved Felicity and allowed her to see how he feels.  Oliver Queen is the king of compartamentalization, here is your box and please stay in it because I feel safer that way. This season he's going to give Felicity a peak inside and then try to send her on her way to a happy life making the noble sacrifice. Basically we are moving from one TV trope to another. But at least we are progressing.

 

So last years TV Trope was - It's not you it's my enemies

 

Heroes have a dangerous job. They can accept that — for themselves. But not for their significant other.  The Hero has a ready and willing Love Interest who makes him happy, who would be good for him, who even the fans want to see him with. It's plain as day that he cares more about her than anything else... plain to everyone, including the Big Bad.

 

This year it will be either - I Want My Beloved to be Happy

 

A character decides that he or she would do all they can to see the person they like be happy rather than doing their best to end up with that person. Thus, the character acts against his or her own interests, often supporting relationships between their beloved and another person. Intended to show the person as noble and selfless but can fall flat if the plot hasn't shown them to be a couple yet.
If a guy chooses to do this, expect one of two things to occur: some variation of "If You Ever Do Anything to Hurt Her...," or the girl to finally notice him and decide she wants to be with him anyway, as a reward for his virtue.

 

or the Celibate Hero

 

Someone who doesn't do the romance thing. Unlike the clueless Chaste Hero, who just doesn't get romance, the Celibate Hero consciously and actively shuns and avoids it. He/She turns away every potential Girl of the Week and shuts out the pleas of his/her official love interest.

 

http://tvtropes.org (warning this website is like a bag potato chips, don't start reading unless you want be there for a few hours or until you hit the bottom of the bag.) ;)

 

These are all very normal romance tropes and steps that the hero has to take as well as ways to keep up the will they/won't they.

 

My trust in the writers was destroyed during that terrible middle of Season 2 and further tested by the I love you in the finale, I didn't mind the I love you because I always believed he meant it but I am still not over that Oliver didn't clue in Felicity to the plan before they got there. I can fan wank it but it still makes me angry.  But as soon as Guggenheim, one of the more pro-Laure/Oliver producers confirmed they love each other, that ended the debate for me. They are going full in on this or it would corrupt the hero's journey.  That said,  Oliver and Felicity won't be together at least until the end of the season.

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

See, I don't think Oliver and Felicity will be together at all this season - if they are, it won't be until the end.... I would be very surprised if they put all of this out there not to follow through with it at some point. Maybe not this season, but next.

 

Someone somewhere mentioned Remington Steele (too many damn topics in this forum) and pointed out by the time the couple finally got together no one cared anymore. In this ear of demand and instant supply, I don't think the EPs should drag it out. Oliver needs to grow there is no denying the fact. The EPs can have their cake and eat it too by giving us flashback sex with Oliver and whatever lady from his past he's hooked up with. I don't think Olicity needs to be buying a ring and investing in a house either. I am ok if Oliver and Felicity aren't Olicity right out of the gate. It would be OOC I think for them to be. 

 

I don't trust though the PR machine and the EPs aren't looking for a loophole. Ray could be a good size loophole if he and Felicity spark. Laurel and her LI could be a loophole if they spark. I am seeing waffling. If you take sound bytes it would appear Olicity is leaving the station even if it isn't at express speeds. However, there is enough out there I think we could easily have rabbits dangled in front of us like a greyhound race. I agree it would be bad news to toy with an entire fanbase's emotions again. However, if those loopholes get big enough to drive a 18 wheeler through, they'll do it cackling. 

 

According to the CC panel they always planned on bringing Sara back. It was in the works from the pilot. They still gave Laurel, Oliver, and Sara the most god-awful history imaginable. Believing Oliver and Laurel to be endgame, they had Sara board the Gambit. Laurel's boyfriend cheated with her sister. Laurel's sister eventually died. Only she didn't. She came back. Laurel's most recent ex-boyfriend died after witnessing Laurel and Oliver getting busy against a window. Sara comes back and Oliver promptly takes up with her again.

 

We all know the history, but my point is this. The EPs can plan to do something, but it doesn't mean it is going to be executed well. I've come to the realization they aren't storytellers. They have ideas, but someone needs to proof their ideas. I doubt they planned for Olicity which means they are reacting. The fanbase can understand it is too early for Olicity, but if Ray/Felicity spark and Laurel/LI don't we may get Oliver and Laurel again. Keeping Oliver celibate could just be an experiment.

 

Of course I haven't seen/heard where Ray is a seriously LI for Felicity. I've heard he is interested. He might not be anything more than a catalyst for Oliver to pursue or push away Felicity.

 

I really should go to bed. I've been watching Con footage for almost six hours. I'm over-analyzing the wording of interviews.  

[wingster55]

I still haven't seen an interview where Stephen definitely says Laurel/Oliver is done.

 

So, yeah, the PR machine behind all companies involved knows exactly what to promote as widely as possible. They know their audience.

 

It's unfortunate imo that the romance (for any show really) is always the thing that gets the most hits. That frustrates me as a viewer..it should be the cherry on top..not the bowl of ice cream. 

Now I'm hungry. Damn

[catrox14]

 

I still haven't seen an interview where Stephen definitely says Laurel/Oliver is done.

 

 

He said in one of his first interviews which is what started the firestorm of discussion here. 

 

http://collider.com/stephen-amell-arrow-season-3-interview-comic-con/

 

Here is the pertinent excerpt

 

Stephen Amell: There’s one lady in Oliver’s life.

Just one?

Stephen Amell: Just one. There’s one woman in Oliver’s life this year.

Is that his sister?

Stephen Amell: No — it’s Felicity.

It just seems he’s got Sarah out there and Laurel…

Stephen Amell: The ship has sailed on those romances. I don’t think we’ll ever see Oliver & Sarah or Oliver & Laurel together again. I mean – they’ll be together but just not ‘together-together’. They’ll be teammates. We discover in the premiere the way that Oliver feels about Felicity. Because of that — if we just introduced random love interests, it would undersell what we do in the premiere.

 

That seems pretty definitive to me. 

[DrSpaceman10]

I think that at the end of the year Oliver will realize that he can be a better (super)hero if he is both Oliver Queen (ie: dating Felicity/being a father-thus having more humanity) and the Arrow. Maybe then Oliver will become the Green Arrow? If that makes any sense :)

[statsgirl]

They're going to have to come up with something good for seasons 4 and 5 if Oliver becomes the Green Arrow and starts dating Felicity at the end of s3.

 

Some interesting things from SA's interview just above:

In the premier, Oliver sees a version of himself that he doesn't like and that affects his relationship with Diggle.

The producers were done with "You have failed this city" but SA told him that the fans really like it, so they put it in s3.

He retells the story about how they pitched his own idea back to him.  Yeah, they do listen to him.

Oliver doesn't drink, and he has to keep reminding the writers of that.

 

Berlanti interview:

who Felicity is and what she means to him in a lot of ways represents to him a whole other life

We say a thousand times that this is this person's island but this season will really be Thea's island

Another big DC character will come on this year 

Honestly, I've never been big on tweeting TPTB, but maybe we should all question things more - in a polite way, of course. 

 

I'm thinking that after things die down a little, I want to tweet the EPs to thank them for ending the caravan of women and staying with Felicity because now, as long as Sara's going to be around, I can just lean back and enjoy the show.

 

I just want to add that I agree with what Orion wrote above about the PR plan, it seems like the news was given out deliberately to hook people who want it, and to let the furor die down a bit for people who don't.  But for the latter group, there's always Count Vertigo and Ra's al Ghul to come.

 

In the end, it's a business and SDCC is the biggest P.R. gig a sci fi/fantasy show has.

[wingster55]

He said in one of his first interviews which is what started the firestorm of discussion here. 

 

http://collider.com/stephen-amell-arrow-season-3-interview-comic-con/

 

Here is the pertinent excerpt

 

That seems pretty definitive to me. 

I guess I missed that one. 

I still remain dubious but we'll see I suppose. 

[Orion]

I think that at the end of the year Oliver will realize that he can be a better (super)hero if he is both Oliver Queen (ie: dating Felicity/being a father-thus having more humanity) and the Arrow. Maybe then Oliver will become the Green Arrow? If that makes any sense :)

 

I wonder what it is that earns him the name Green Arrow. At first I thought it would be in response to Roy or Thea joining him and taking on the name Red Arrow but I'm wondering if they are not aiming for more of a character moment.

 

SA keeps mentioning Scorcese-esque scene in the premiere, in at least 2 comic con interviews, and IIRC it is linked to Felicity.

 

By now the signature Scorsese style was in place: macho posturing, bloody violence, Catholic guilt and redemption, gritty New York locale (though the majority of Mean Streets was actually shot in Los Angeles), rapid-fire editing and a soundtrack with contemporary music

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Scorsese

 

So everyone guessing that he flips his lid at Felicity getting hurt, this could be supporting that. IMDB seems to imply that Taxi driver has a story where a girl gets injured and the protagonist goes on a rampage after that.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Orion

[statsgirl]

And the "raw discussion" they have is after that, when he tells her how he feels about her but can't be with her because it's not safe for the other person to be emotionally involved with him?

 

I'm hoping it's a good scene. SA said that it was his favourite Olicity scene, and given what he did with the Susannah Thompson scene, I'm expecting a lot.

[stormborn]

Does anyone remember that quote from Kriesberg where he alluded that since there's a legitimate threat at hand, Felicity in turn has a legitimate choice to make and that choice fuels the emotional crux of the decisions Oliver makes in the episode or something like that? That only just came to me, and maybe while we're thinking Oliver is the one to decide if and when the relationship starts, its really Felicity who makes the ultimate choice. 

 

I don't know, maybe I could be misreading that quote or reading too much into it. But it would be refreshing to see that kind of choice be left up to the woman for a change and not the man, like how its usually done....all the time. 

[apinknightmare]

Does anyone remember that quote from Kriesberg where he alluded that since there's a legitimate threat at hand, Felicity in turn has a legitimate choice to make and that choice fuels the emotional crux of the decisions Oliver makes in the episode or something like that? That only just came to me, and maybe while we're thinking Oliver is the one to decide if and when the relationship starts, its really Felicity who makes the ultimate choice. 

 

I don't know, maybe I could be misreading that quote or reading too much into it. But it would be refreshing to see that kind of choice be left up to the woman for a change and not the man, like how its usually done....all the time. 

 

So, this actually made me think. There's this from the CW press release about S3:

 

 

In the aftermath of this victory, Season Three opens with Arrow now a hero to the citizens of Starling.  Crime is down, people feel safer, and Captain Lance even calls off the Anti-Vigilante Task Force.  Basking in his success, Oliver believes he can finally have a private life and asks Felicity out on a date.  But the second Oliver takes his eye off the ball, a deadly villain reappears in Starling, forcing Oliver to realize that he can never be Oliver Queen – not as long as the city needs The Arrow.

 

This from EW:

 

 

So it sounds like this year’s new big bad won’t be the only thing weighing on Oliver. As Kreisberg put it, “Now there’s a real legitimate threat, or at least a real legitimate choice for Felicity to make. Oliver’s reaction to it and the decisions it forces him to make are the emotional crux of the episodes.”

 

Now I'm wondering - does it specifically say anywhere that Felicity also decides not to pursue the relationship, or did we just assume that she agreed with Oliver because that Comicbook.com quote reads that we'll be sympathetic to both of their positions? We can tell just from the CW press release that Oliver's going to back off, but does Felicity? I honestly can't remember if there's been a direct quote about that. Maybe we're sympathetic of Oliver wanting to back away and we're sympathetic of Felicity wanting to pursue it? I mean, if Felicity actively says, "yeah, we shouldn't go there," then it seems to me that maybe Oliver wouldn't feel quite as threatened? Like, it's easier for him to say, "Yeah, maybe we shouldn't do this," knowing that she still wants it? If he knew she was still interested but was beginning to let go of the idea since Oliver was pushing her away and then Ray comes along, it seems like the "decisions it forces (Oliver) to make are the emotional crux of the episodes" thing actually becomes more emotional because Oliver's like, "Oh shit, I might really lose her?"

 

Or maybe there's a quote out there about both Oliver and Felicity backing off, and I just thought of all this for nothing, haha.

[Velocity23]

So Paul Blackthorne posted this on his facebook page and there is talk of underwater shoot for a episode. 

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=249340958610400

[apinknightmare]

So Paul Blackthorne posted this on his facebook page and there is talk of underwater shoot for a episode.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=249340958610400

It sounded like that might have been a joke?

[Velocity23]

I never know with these guys since they always up their stunt fight and sequences with each episodes. 

[Morrigan2575]

I'm pretty sure MG was joking about the underwater shoot.  He was feeding off of EBR's comment about 302 being titled impossible to shoot (or something like that).

[Velocity23]

I never know what to believe with this dorks x.x I only thought it might be truth because of this post from caity (no experience with seagulls, my mind also go to water like surfaces with them)

 

http://instagram.com/p/q0ziJLuGS4/?modal=true

 

But guess we are getting a good scene between Diggle and Oliver

 

David Ramseys tweet:

 

@amellywood  delivers a heart-wrenching performance on the set of #Arrow at the END of a 13hr work day! Bravo to the leader of the pack!

 

and Stephen response:

 

@david_ramsey couldn't do it without my scene partner.

 

https://twitter.com/david_ramsey/status/494363232308428801

Edited July 30, 2014 by Velocity23

[apinknightmare]

I never know what to believe with this dorks x.x

But guess we are getting a good scene between Diggle and Oliver

David Ramseys tweet:

@amellywood delivers a heart-wrenching performance on the set of #Arrow at the END of a 13hr work day! Bravo to the leader of the pack!

and Stephen response:

@david_ramsey couldn't do it without my scene partner.

https://twitter.com/david_ramsey/status/494363232308428801

These beautiful jerks need to stop with this. I'm already trying to figure out a way to fast forward real time.

Digg's daughter is in this ep, yeah? Maybe it's got something to do with that? Or maybe they're discussing the fallout from the date? Maybe they're discussing the fallout from the date and/or the life Oliver can't have while he holds the baby (dream scenario, tbh)? No, I can't think about it. My heart.

Edited July 30, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Velocity23]

 

These beautiful jerks need to stop with this. I'm already trying to figure out a way to fast forward real time.

 everybody needs a TARDIS! 

[dtissagirl]

I wonder what it is that earns him the name Green Arrow. At first I thought it would be in response to Roy or Thea joining him and taking on the name Red Arrow but I'm wondering if they are not aiming for more of a character moment.

 

Now that Kreisberg is gonna be writing the Green Arrow comics, I've been wondering if they're gonna go all out on a stunt here. New 52 Green Arrow's uniform is still based off the Smallville suit, and Andrea Sorrentino kinda draws Oliver looking like Justin Hartley [specially on the covers]. It might be the perfect time when season 4 comes -- and TV Arrow is called Green Arrow -- for them to update the TV suit [to something with a lighter green, even], and make the comic book uniform match TV, + draw him with Amell in mind. Keeping visuals similar enough = super marketable Green Arrow BRAND.

 

 

Now I'm wondering - does it specifically say anywhere that Felicity also decides not to pursue the relationship, or did we just assume that she agreed with Oliver because that Comicbook.com quote reads that we'll be sympathetic to both of their positions? We can tell just from the CW press release that Oliver's going to back off, but does Felicity? I honestly can't remember if there's been a direct quote about that. Maybe we're sympathetic of Oliver wanting to back away and we're sympathetic of Felicity wanting to pursue it? I mean, if Felicity actively says, "yeah, we shouldn't go there," then it seems to me that maybe Oliver wouldn't feel quite as threatened? Like, it's easier for him to say, "Yeah, maybe we shouldn't do this," knowing that she still wants it? If he knew she was still interested but was beginning to let go of the idea since Oliver was pushing her away and then Ray comes along, it seems like the "decisions it forces (Oliver) to make are the emotional crux of the episodes" thing actually becomes more emotional because Oliver's like, "Oh shit, I might really lose her?"

 

Oh wow, this is eeeenteresting. Because it would be a GIGANTIC emotional rift between them if Felicity doesn't accept any of Oliver's reasoning, and she tells him that she wants a relationship regardless, but he still refuses. And then what can she do, really, but try and move on?

[foreverevolving]

lol yeah this is the only forum that views Thea positively. Every other forum I go on hates Thea with a passion. They think she's annoying and overdramatic. Even go on youtube reviews of episodes or look in the comments. They say mean things about Thea all the time. A lot of people wish her character would die. (Not my opinion, I'm just stating the general consensus on other forums) I think this forum might liker her better because there are more females here than others perhaps. 

I think the people here like Thea more not because of gender but because the people here seems to be more level headed, smarter and actual mature adults than the people in many of the other forums.

 

ETA: which for me translates into them(you) understanding that Thea isn't acting like a spoiled brat out of spit but for extremely valid reasons. plus at her age the chemicals in her brain are still those of a teenager, if i remember correctly most humans don't enter the "adult" stage of their lives chemically and behaviorally until they are in their mid 20's. so her lashing out the way she does, yea totally understandable.

Edited July 30, 2014 by foreverevolving

[apinknightmare]

Oh wow, this is eeeenteresting. Because it would be a GIGANTIC emotional rift between them if Felicity doesn't accept any of Oliver's reasoning, and she tells him that she wants a relationship regardless, but he still refuses. And then what can she do, really, but try and move on?

I don't know the right way to explain it, because I don't think Felicity would be petulant or anything, but she's always encouraged him and told him he deserves good things. And given that MG said her reaction to the difficult truths Oliver tells her is interesting, I'm guessing she doesn't react the way he expects her to or already knows about some of it (due to hacking ARGUS? IDK). I just can't understand what could happen in the span of the night for HER to want to back off.

Of course, maybe the ep takes place over a few days and they have some time to cool off after the date? I just feel like this decision is going to be made by Oliver when he's in an emotional state, IDK.

Maybe Felicity just decides to go along with whatever Oliver's reasoning is, or maybe she disagrees but lets it go because she realizes he's not ready. I just think that Oliver's story and growth would be more emotionally rich if he were willingly giving up a relationship that was an option to him as opposed to Felicity wanting out of it too. But then she accepts it and tries to move on and starts to when she gets to know Ray Palmer a bit better.

Although, per MG, her dilemma over being "Oliver's crush" suggests that she might not be sure of the depth/realness of his feelings for her? So maybe she tells him that and that feeds into Oliver being a one-woman man this year? The emotional crux of his decisions (or however AK phrased it) could be him making those decisions that show he truly loves her?

I don't know, just thinking out loud about the ways this could play out. It's how I occupy my mind during my morning run to keep me from quitting.

Edited July 30, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Velocity23]

Thea does get a lot of criticism. I am not sure exactly why. I think most is based from early S1 Thea. And probably the Isobel Rochev mess. 

 

Most of Youtube comments are on the level of a certain Arrow board that i visited yesterday. I remember when watching the Amber Dubois case and someone commented that the girl deserved to die because she would be a future animals molester (the girl just wanted to observe the behavior of animals as her carrier choice). From that moment one i just don't even bother with them anymore. 

Edited July 30, 2014 by Velocity23

[Morrigan2575]

Now that Kreisberg is gonna be writing the Green Arrow comics, I've been wondering if they're gonna go all out on a stunt here. New 52 Green Arrow's uniform is still based off the Smallville suit, and Andrea Sorrentino kinda draws Oliver looking like Justin Hartley [specially on the covers]. It might be the perfect time when season 4 comes -- and TV Arrow is called Green Arrow -- for them to update the TV suit [to something with a lighter green, even], and make the comic book uniform match TV, + draw him with Amell in mind. Keeping visuals similar enough = super marketable Green Arrow BRAND.

 

I'd honestly prefer they didn't do that at all.  Although, I don't think Sorrentino's Oliver looks anything like Justin Hartley.  It's bad enough that I'm losing Jeff Lemiere I really don't want Comics Oliver to start looking like Amell.  

Edited July 30, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[dtissagirl]

I'd honestly prefer they didn't do that at all.  Although, I don't think Sorrentino's Oliver looks anything like Justin Hartley.  It's bad enough that I'm losing Jeff Lemiere I really don't want Comics Oliver to start looking like Amell.  

 

I don't really have a preference, but I can see them going for it. And I admit I find it weird that the Smallville suit is still around, with Arrow going to its third season, and having a lot more visibility than the GA comics, and a WHOLE lot more street cred than Smallville ever did.

 

Sorrentino's first cover REALLY made me go "WOW, that's JHarts!": http://scarlet-rhapsody.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Green-Arrow-017-Cover.jpg

 

And then a few other covers after that. I stopped reading at #25 or #26, though, so I'm almost a year behind now.

[catrox14]

 

the people here seems to be more level headed, smarter and actual mature adults than the people in many of the other forums.

 

 Who you callin' level headed, smarter and more mature! ? HOW DARE YOU!

 

I think Thea gets appreciation, at least, from me because I think Willa Holland is a good actress and she gives Thea some nuance and character under the "bratty" girl of s1. And now she's growing into a really interesting young woman

Edited July 30, 2014 by catrox14

[dtissagirl]

Some interesting things from SA's interview just above:

In the premier, Oliver sees a version of himself that he doesn't like and that affects his relationship with Diggle.

 

Could this be the part of the story that involves the willpower drug? I wonder if Oliver hallucinates something, or, I dunno, the explosion knocks him off, and [if he's drugged] he dreams a super scary scenario where he sees himself as a monster.

[apinknightmare]

Could this be the part of the story that involves the willpower drug? I wonder if Oliver hallucinates something, or, I dunno, the explosion knocks him off, and [if he's drugged] he dreams a super scary scenario where he sees himself as a monster.

Ah, see, I assumed the scary version of himself he saw had something to do with Felicity. I wonder if the willpower drug has something to do with him killing (or thinking of killing) again? I don't know why that would affect his relationship with Diggle though.

My brain is tired.

[MsSchadenfreude]

 

 

David Ramseys tweet:

@amellywood  delivers a heart-wrenching performance on the set of #Arrow at the END of a 13hr work day! Bravo to the leader of the pack!

and Stephen response:

@david_ramsey couldn't do it without my scene partner.

 

Oh geez, first a heartbreaking Oliver/Felicity scene then a heart-wrenching Oliver/Diggle scene plus seeing Tommy.  I'm going to have to go to my happy place (eating chocolate and drinking wine) to even watch Season Three. 

[Sunshine]

In one of the SDCC interviews, one of the EPs (I think) said the first couple of episodes would be rough on Team Arrow.

[Password]

In one of the SDCC interviews, one of the EPs (I think) said the first couple of episodes would be rough on Team Arrow.

That makes me so happy because I love team Arrow and their squabbles.

I'm guessing they won't be squabbles but heart breaking moments. Bring it.

[dtissagirl]

Ah, see, I assumed the scary version of himself he saw had something to do with Felicity. I wonder if the willpower drug has something to do with him killing (or thinking of killing) again? I don't know why that would affect his relationship with Diggle though.

My brain is tired.

 

Hee, I'm on my third cup of coffee just so work can happen. :)

 

Maybe it's the same scary version of himself that makes Oliver want to bench Diggle + not pursue a relationship with Felicity? He's obviously gonna decide that he can't have a life and be Arrow at the same time, so maybe he thinks Diggle deserves that life, and Felicity is better off without dating him. Pushing both away in different ways, but for the same reason.

[apinknightmare]

That makes me so happy because I love team Arrow and their squabbles.

I'm guessing they won't be squabbles but heart breaking moments. Bring it.

I'm so glad Digg's right in the thick of things. I love angst and Team Arrow confrontations, but I can only take so much (and I hope they don't last too long). Preparing to be in the fetal position weeping for the first few eps. Edited July 30, 2014 by apinknightmare

[wonderwall]

Felicity/Oliver can go in any direction tbqh. Maybe Felicity tries to fight for Oliver before giving up, maybe she decides that she deserves someone who would fight for her, maybe she thinks that Oliver isn't ready and backs off... There are so many possibilities and I hope that the EPs choose a path that empowers Felicity rather than one that makes her look weak. While I support Oliver/Felicity, relationships don't matter to me as much as the characters in said relationship. It should be character first, then relationship (which is what I hope the EPs see).

 

As for Thea, this is the only website I've been to that have an overwhelming amount of people who support her. Other websites are more critical and don't have the patience for her drama because they only view her as a petulant child. I however, disagree with these views because if you put yourself in Thea's shoes, you can see that she's been ripped to shreds yet still remained stronger than Laurel. She used the betrayal of Oliver and her mother and the people who love her and turned that into energy. She didn't waste away behind a bottle of booze, she is bending over backwards in order to become a stronger woman. That is what I envision BC to be (someone who uses their anger and pain and channels it into her strength), but is failing to be thus far. But alas, some people don't like teenage drama, thus they end up hating rather than loving. I hope seeing the new and improved Thea will help her gain some more support. 

 

As for Diggle, while I'm disappointed we haven't learned much information about him, I'm glad that it seems like he's getting more screentime and actual words. If anyone should be rewarded for their 'team spirit' it should be David Ramsay. He supports the show 100% yet barely said more than two sentences per episode last season. 

Edited July 30, 2014 by wonderwall

[Carrie Ann]

As for Diggle, while I'm disappointed we haven't learned much information about him, I'm glad that it seems like he's getting more screentime and actual words. If anyone should be rewarded for their 'team spirit' it should be David Ramsay. He supports the show 100% yet barely said more than two sentences per episode last season. 

Absolutely. Dig is the secret MVP of this show, and has taken a backseat on the Team and on the show in service of developing Roy and Sara (and Felicity, to an extent, but their friendship with each other develops them both so that actually works in his favor). I hate when Oliver and Dig are at odds, but it's rather delicious at the same time. In the long SA interview below, at about 6:00 there is a question about what's coming for Oliver and Diggle, and he says, "Finger-pointing, bro-hugs, yelling, smiling, fist bumps. Diggle/Ollie stuff." So hopefully the conflict isn't extended too long.

 

Edited July 30, 2014 by Carrie Ann

[statsgirl]

Then at Comic Con they decide to make it extremely clear where this season is going. They want to pad the landing and prepare the people who aren't into Oliver and Felicity to minimize the upset during the season and like someone said above, reassure the Olicity fans that this is being taken seriously.  So SA is tasked with breaking the news that Sara and Laurel ships are done. Felicity is the one woman going forward this season. He's very careful to say Sara and Laurel and Oliver will be together just not together, together.  This is backed up in smaller interviews by the EPs.  The PR people are very careful to keep the woman out of it.  KC and EBR aren't present during any of these interviews, which keeps KC from having to sit through question after question about Olicity (The Arrow panel moderator basically used Olicity to whip the fans up during the whole panel. Imagine if KC was sitting there for that). And EBR is kept away to stop Olicity from taking over all the Arrow talk, reassuring fans that the romance will not take over the show and to make sure that the anger the Lauriver fans feel is not directed at her but confined to the EPs and SA.  The ladies are kept out of the autographs line so they don't get questioned on it and the which one of the Lances will be the Black Canary question. The only big event they are all together for, beyond photo sessions away from the public is the large DC panel, which is less likely to break down into a Arrow/Olicity conversation with so much going on besides those issues.

 

I've been missing seeing interviews with the women, especially in the round tables where most of the good stuff has been coming out. I was wondering how we could test this idea, that CL, EBR and KC were deliberately kept away from events where they could be asked questions or if it was just that their shooting ran late.  We've been told that there's a rooftop scene between Sara and Laurel so that may have been what they were shooting Friday night.  The question is whether there is a Felicity scene that doesn't have Oliver, Diggle, Roy, or Quentin in it. If there isn't, it may well be that they deliberately kept EBR away.

Oh wow, this is eeeenteresting. Because it would be a GIGANTIC emotional rift between them if Felicity doesn't accept any of Oliver's reasoning, and she tells him that she wants a relationship regardless, but he still refuses. And then what can she do, really, but try and move on?

The question is, what does she think causes Oliver to push her away?  If it's because he loves her too much and is afraid of getting her  hurt, moving on would make her unsympathetic to the audience.  How could she date someone else when he loves her so much???

 

I think Thea gets appreciation, at least, from me because I think Willa Holland is a good actress and she gives Thea some nuance and character under the "bratty" girl of s1. And now she's growing into a really interesting young woman

The writers really gave WH a tough job in s1, and later in parts of s2 when she got really bratty and I think she's done a great job with very little to work with.  As AK said, she deserves to be rewarded with a good storyline this season.  (KC, on the other hand, has had lots of storylines.)

 

I find people tend to be harsher on the characters who are more like they themselves are.  Those remarks may be coming from people of Thea's age whereas I'm most critical of older women, especially in administration, who are incompetent. (Not Moira, never Moira!  I mean characters on other shows. Okay, maybe Isabel.)

 

Maybe it's the same scary version of himself that makes Oliver want to bench Diggle + not pursue a relationship with Felicity? He's obviously gonna decide that he can't have a life and be Arrow at the same time, so maybe he thinks Diggle deserves that life, and Felicity is better off without dating him. Pushing both away in different ways, but for the same reason.

I like the idea that what happens affects his relationships with both Felicity and Diggle because if it were just about Felicity and he loses it when she gets hurt, I don't see how she can go and date other people i.e. he loves her so much he goes nuts when she gets hurt and pushes her away.  She could say "okay, I'll give you your space" but if he loves her that much, she'd be a very unsympathetic character to go and date someone else.  But if the events of The Calm push him into his blinkered Arrow box and he pushes both Diggle and Felicity away, it's more understandable.

Edited July 30, 2014 by statsgirl

[wonderwall]

...I want Diggle to kick Oliver's butt. 

 

Is that so wrong? 

I honestly think they want to shield KC from questions at the moment because she's said so many times that Oliver/Felicity are just a 'fling' and that Laurel/Oliver are meant to be, and for her to retract these statements or still say it would make her look like an idiot... Was it ridiculous on KCs part to make this statement? Yes. Was it ridiculous on SAs part to make this statement? Not as much because it's been known that SA has conversations with EPs and helps plan the overarching themes and plot of the upcoming season. SA knows what's going on not only with his character, but with the entire show. KC barely knows anything about her character so... yes, it was never her place to make such sweeping statements. 

[apinknightmare]

...I want Diggle to kick Oliver's butt.

Is that so wrong?

I wouldn't mind watching them fight it out before engaging in copious amounts of man hugs.

[statsgirl]

...I want Diggle to kick Oliver's butt. 

 

Is that so wrong? 

We know David Ramsey can kick Stephen Amell's butt.  SA has said they've kick boxed 3 (?) times and each time Ramsey has wiped him out.

[wonderwall]

OH. WHAT IF Felicity is the one who tells Oliver about his son? Since she's going to be in and out of Central City, I wouldn't be surprised if Oliver told her about the baby during their date and Felicity comes back baring huge news that will rock Oliver's world in a potentially negative way? 

[SilverLake0315]

The writers really gave WH a tough job in s1, and later in parts of s2 when she got really bratty and I think she's done a great job with very little to work with.  As AK said, she deserves to be rewarded with a good storyline this season.  (KC, on the other hand, has had lots of storylines.)

 

Willa also manages to make me feel for, and relate to, Thea even when I think she's being unreasonable or dramatic.  Katie/Laurel?  Not so much.  Also, I somewhat expect brattier behavior from Thea, as she's been a teenager for most of Arrow's run.  Laurel is a grown ass woman acting like a child, more often than not.

[Sunshine]

I've been missing seeing interviews with the women, especially in the round tables where most of the good stuff has been coming out. I was wondering how we could test this idea, that CL, EBR and KC were deliberately kept away from events where they could be asked questions or if it was just that their shooting ran late.  We've been told that there's a rooftop scene between Sara and Laurel so that may have been what they were shooting Friday night.  The question is whether there is a Felicity scene that doesn't have Oliver, Diggle, Roy, or Quentin in it. If there isn't, it may well be that they deliberately kept EBR away.

 

As for keeping the girls away...in Amell's Q&A on Tuesday he mentioned his trailer and how much time he spends in it and why.  One of the things he mentioned was sometimes it's 8 hours because things break.  So perhaps something broke this week.  They may have had to shuffle the shooting schedule to make sure Amell got to SDCC (and they decided to move one or more of the women on purpose) or it might simply have been that they were scheduled to shoot last on the schedule so Thursday got moved to Friday.  EBR might have been shooting with Brandon Routh.  Felicity still has to work for a living.  She is probably going to have a lot of her scenes with him.

[Sakura12]

Willa also manages to make me feel for, and relate to, Thea even when I think she's being unreasonable or dramatic.  Katie/Laurel?  Not so much.  Also, I somewhat expect brattier behavior from Thea, as she's been a teenager for most of Arrow's run.  Laurel is a grown ass woman acting like a child, more often than not.

 

That's why I cut Thea some slack, you expect behavior like that from a 18/19 year old but not from a woman that's almost 30. 

Edited July 30, 2014 by Sakura12

[dtissagirl]

I like the idea that what happens affects his relationships with both Felicity and Diggle because if it were just about Felicity and he loses it when she gets hurt, I don't see how she can go and date other people i.e. he loves her so much he goes nuts when she gets hurt and pushes her away.  She could say "okay, I'll give you your space" but if he loves her that much, she'd be a very unsympathetic character to go and date someone else.  But if the events of The Calm push him into his blinkered Arrow box and he pushes both Diggle and Felicity away, it's more understandable.

 

I see this differently. If Oliver goes "Felicity, I love you so much but I can't be with you because <insert reasons here>", I really don't see him as poor self-sacrificing hero giving up his own happiness to protect Felicity from him... I see him as idiot with issues, but at least he's gonna be dealing with those issues without leading Felicity on. And if he shuts her down, I don't wanna see her pining, I wanna see her try to move on.

 

He can pine, though, because it's him who's being an idiot. *g*

 

Plus, I dunno, but I also don't find the notion of Oliver protecting Felicity from himself at all romantic. I find it controlling, and undermining of Felicity being capable of making her own informed decisions.

Edited July 30, 2014 by dancingnancy