Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Midnight Lullaby]

25 minutes ago, looptab said:

Oh, no, that I get. I actually posted something similar in the episode thread. I meant  the comment by BFS in the Spoilers Only thread, about Donna making decisions for Felicity and then "does it remind you of anyone?", that made me wonder.

Oh yes, I thought that was a dig at Oliver but it left me perplexed to be honest because Donna chose to take a child away from what she thought was an unhealthy situation for her, while Oliver lied to Felicity because Samantha told him to. I can see the parallel better with Donna being the Samantha of the situation.

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Oh yes, I thought that was a dig at Oliver but it left me perplexed to be honest because Donna chose to take a child away from what she thought was an unhealthy situation for her, while Oliver lied to Felicity because Samantha told him to. I can see the parallel better with Donna being the Samantha of the situation.

I think maybe he was talking about Donna asking Noah to leave now, and making a decision for Felicity about having a relationship with her father in the present, not what she did when Felicity was a kid. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

6 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I think maybe he was talking about Donna asking Noah to leave now, and making a decision for Felicity about having a relationship with her father in the present, not what she did when Felicity was a kid. 

But how did he know that? It was happening while they were talking. Also I just remembered Felicity told him Donna kicked Noah out just before Curtis said that line so they were talking about what happened to her as a kid.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Midnight Lullaby

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

But how did he know that? It was happening while they were talking. 

Wait, I'm confused - are we not talking about Brian Ford Sullivan's "remind you of anyone?" tweet?

Edited May 19, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Midnight Lullaby]

2 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Wait, I'm confused - are we not talking about Brian Ford Sullivan's tweets about "Sound like anyone we know?" 

Forget my previous message, I got confused with another conversation I was having. It's my bad, sorry. :/

Edited May 19, 2016 by Midnight Lullaby

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Yes. I thought you said Curtis' line was about Donna asking Noah to leave in the present which is what his tweet was about. Or were you all talking about another tweet?

No, I'm talking about this tweet: 

That's the one you quoted in the response that I replied to. I think he's talking about Donna asking Noah to leave in the present, making the decision for Felicity about her relationship with her father.

Edited May 19, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Midnight Lullaby]

Just now, apinknightmare said:

No, I'm talking about this tweet: 

That's the one you quoted in the response that I replied to. 

Yes, sorry, I just edited my previous message because I realized I got confused with another conversation I was having.

[tv echo]

Regarding the show description for S5, it does sound like they're trying to distinguish between Felicity and Curtis on the team - she is the "computer-science expert" while he is the "brilliant inventor".  So I guess Curtis will be like Cisco, while Felicity remains the expert computer hacker.

[ComicFan777]

I think that Brian Ford Sullivan's tweet: sound like anyone we know? parallels both Samantha making decisions for William and Moira making decisions for Oliver.

[jay741982]

And Oliver not including Felicity in on decisions

[looptab]

But those are not exactly the same thing, hence the "uh?" at the tweet, at least on my part. One is keeping things from a loved one, the other is making decision for the loved one. It's not like Oliver didn't tell Felicity about William for her own sake. He did it "to protect William", and keep his promise to Samantha. (It doesn't make any sense, but that's another story).

[calliope1975]

4 hours ago, looptab said:

By the way, the show has been sucky in that there have been several references to Felicity's potential babies, without a single pregnancy scare. So I'm half expecting a surprise pregnancy in the finale - timelines be damned.

You know there was at least one angry ex sex hookup so it could happen, not that I want it to. Oh wait, you're saying that was just in my head? Pfft.

[AyChihuahua]

3 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

You know there was at least one angry ex sex hookup so it could happen, not that I want it to. Oh wait, you're saying that was just in my head? Pfft.

SHE'D be trying to have angry ex-sex and he'd be gazing at her and gently caressing her, all "This MEANS something, right? We're back together now, right? Please say yes."

Total angry-sex buzz-harsher.

[Guest]

You guys are making me annoyed that we didn't get angry sex. 

LOL I've reached the point where I'd be happy with dreamy smiley look between them. I miss them like that tbh. 

[lemotomato]

21 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

You guys are making me annoyed that we didn't get angry sex. 

LOL I've reached the point where I'd be happy with dreamy smiley look between them. I miss them like that tbh. 

I got all verklempt at the one armed hug and them talking over comms in last night's ep. I'm hoping to get something Olicity positive in the finale, but I'm not holding my breath.

[wonderwall]

13 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I got all verklempt at the one armed hug and them talking over comms in last night's ep. I'm hoping to get something Olicity positive in the finale, but I'm not holding my breath.

Well to be fair we've been getting a lot of positive Olicity stuff post drama... ONe wouldn't even know they were at odds:

• 417 - Oliver says Felicity never has to thank him for saving her which is a nice moment
• 418 - Felicity hugs Oliver when LL is in the hospital and it's a nice moment of them comforting one another
• 419 - Oliver opens up to Felicity about why he blames himself and Felicity opens up about blaming herself
• 420 - Felicity tells Oliver that she was wrong and he DOES have the ability to change and that she believes in him and is there to support Oliver
• 421 - No Olicity moments
• 422 - Felicity hugs Oliver and thanks him for not dying

So I don't see why we wouldn't get any nice/positive Olicity moments. I actually think it's unlikely that they won't get a nice moment or two...

[Midnight Lullaby]

But we didn't get moments where they worked on their issues. The most we got was Felicity saying she told Oliver she doesn't think he can't change in a moment of anger. That's the problem for me.

[wonderwall]

1 minute ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

But we didn't get moments where they worked on their issues. The most we got was Felicity saying she told Oliver she doesn't think he can't change in a moment of anger. That's the problem for me.

The way I've always seen it is that Oliver/Felicity's issues aren't about them as a couple but as them as individuals so we have to see them grow as individuals first before getting back together. And I think we've seen Oliver grow a lot the past few episodes. What we didn't see him grow is in regards to what made them break up in the first place (Oliver keeping things from Felicity). With Felicity, she has acknowledged that she was hasty in thinking Oliver couldn't change, so there's that.

But I don't think Oliver not learning that he shouldn't keep things from Felicity yet is necessarily an issue  because we were specifically told by David Ramsey that they were going to be in a better place, but not together, together. So there's still time...

[Midnight Lullaby]

1 hour ago, wonderwall said:

The way I've always seen it is that Oliver/Felicity's issues aren't about them as a couple but as them as individuals so we have to see them grow as individuals first before getting back together. And I think we've seen Oliver grow a lot the past few episodes. What we didn't see him grow is in regards to what made them break up in the first place (Oliver keeping things from Felicity). With Felicity, she has acknowledged that she was hasty in thinking Oliver couldn't change, so there's that.

But I don't think Oliver not learning that he shouldn't keep things from Felicity yet is necessarily an issue  because we were specifically told by David Ramsey that they were going to be in a better place, but not together, together. So there's still time...

I'm afraid it won't make much sense after a whole summer. He didn't apologize to her, he didn't try to prove that what he said in episode 16 weren't just words. It would be ideal of course to do that once the city isn't under attack anymore but we never get to see those moments. I feel the window to make those steps towards each other was before the finale and it passed and it won't be that meaningful to come back in October and say "hey do you remember what happened last year?" 

Edited May 19, 2016 by Midnight Lullaby

[wonderwall]

Just now, Midnight Lullaby said:

I'm afraid it won't make much sense after a whole summer. He didn't apologize to her, he didn't try to prove that what he said in episode 16 weren't just words. It would be ideal of course to do that once the city isn't under attack anymore but we never get to see those moments. I feel the window to make those steps towards each other were before the finale and it passed and it won't be that meaningful to come back in October and say "hey do you remember what happened last fall?" 

I mean there are a few choices here:

• Oliver/Felicity end the season still being at odds - which could potentially mean that they'd be mending their relationship (if they did stay in Starling) over the break... Which no. 
• Oliver/Felicity end the season on a hopeful note - which means that all they need is time (which is the hiatus) before they get back together. They'll also have some time to mend fences in the first few episodes of next season. 
• Oliver/Felicity get together at the end of the season - which would mean a lot of rushed development considering they broke up officially in episode 16

Would I rather have not deal with the baby mama? Sure. But out of all the aforementioned choices we have, the 2nd bullet point is actually the best one, which is probably what the writers are going for. 

Regardless in the end, all that's required for them to work as a couple again is for Felicity to give Oliver another chance (if she deems him worthy of a 2nd chance, which the fact that Oliver is slowly changing and becoming more hopeful means that she will), and for Oliver to be willing to change. Then they can work on overcoming their issues together. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

4 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

I mean there are a few choices here:

• Oliver/Felicity end the season still being at odds - which could potentially mean that they'd be mending their relationship (if they did stay in Starling) over the break... Which no. 
• Oliver/Felicity end the season on a hopeful note - which means that all they need is time (which is the hiatus) before they get back together. They'll also have some time to mend fences in the first few episodes of next season. 
• Oliver/Felicity get together at the end of the season - which would mean a lot of rushed development considering they broke up officially in episode 16

Would I rather have not deal with the baby mama? Sure. But out of all the aforementioned choices we have, the 2nd bullet point is actually the best one, which is probably what the writers are going for. 

Regardless in the end, all that's required for them to work as a couple again is for Felicity to give Oliver another chance (if she deems him worthy of a 2nd chance, which the fact that Oliver is slowly changing and becoming more hopeful means that she will), and for Oliver to be willing to change. Then they can work on overcoming their issues together. 

I agree that it is the best option at this point but I don't like it because what are they doing all summer together in SC? Working together acting like they were never engaged last year? And then in the premiere remember they were a couple and work towards that again?

What I am saying is that I think they should have tackled their issues in the episodes before the last three, where nothing can happen because there's too much drama happening, so that I could buy that the whole summer they could work as friends because they talked about what they needed to talk about and the one problem is finding the right time to try to be together again. 

[wonderwall]

11 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I agree that it is the best option at this point but I don't like it because what are they doing all summer together in SC? Working together acting like they were never engaged last year? And then in the premiere remember they were a couple and work towards that again?

What I am saying is that I think they should have tackled their issues in the episodes before the last three, where nothing can happen because there's too much drama happening, so that I could buy that the whole summer they could work as friends because they talked about what they needed to talk about and the one problem is finding the right time to try to be together again. 

But who says that they're going to work as friends over the summer? I think we all know (especially Oliver/Felicity) that they're never going to be just friends, that they will always be something more. It depends on the kind of mindset they have in the season finale. Will they work together, spend time together, knowing that they're going to get back together, or are they going to keep things platonic?

I guess that's something we'll have to see in the finale...

Edited May 19, 2016 by wonderwall

[AyChihuahua]

Yet another summer of potentially cute O/F moments we never get to see. Joy.

[Chaser]

With Diggle/Thea gone, city taking a beating and Oliver's public speeches, are we sure Olicity is going to be a vigilante team at all?

Maybe Oliver is Mayor and Felicity does something else? 

[Midnight Lullaby]

33 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

But who says that they're going to work as friends over the summer? I think we all know (especially Oliver/Felicity) that they're never going to be just friends, that they will always be something more. It depends on the kind of mindset they have in the season finale. Will they work together, spend time together, knowing that they're going to get back together, or are they going to keep things platonic?

I guess that's something we'll have to see in the finale...

We know that they will end up in a good place and in a hopeful place regarding their relationship. David and Stephen told us so. Then you enter four months that we will never see and that is one thing I don't like. Also my main doubt was that either they talk about their issues the next episode in the one minute scene they will have together when the writers unnecessarily kept them apart because plot for several episodes that were more fit for it or they don't and they will maybe remember next fall that several months ago they broke up for a reason.

You said that we had nice Olicity moments in the last episodes and it's true, but I said my problem is those moments didn't move them forward. They acted like nothing happened when the writers could have made a gradual development instead of doing it in a one minute scene the next episode or freeze everything for next year. 

Edited May 19, 2016 by Midnight Lullaby

[way2interested]

6 minutes ago, Chaser said:

With Diggle/Thea gone, city taking a beating and Oliver's public speeches, are we sure Olicity is going to be a vigilante team at all?

Maybe Oliver is Mayor and Felicity does something else? 

See that's what I was thinking with how this season ends, with Oliver and Felicity both staying to try to help the city and make a difference without being vigilantes (especially since the end of s3 was all about how Oliver ultimately needed a team to succeed and no team may just lead to no vigilanting). Not necessarily giving up being Team Arrow, but just doing something more for the city (which is essentially what Felicity already wanted in 401 and what Oliver developed to want throughout this season). The only problem I see is that at this point Felicity is jobless, so I just can't see what she would be doing this summer unless it gets revealed at the beginning of s5 or near the end of next week's episode. That being said, I would not be opposed (but admittedly, slightly bummed) to finding out that Oliver and Felicity were a small team together during the summer when duty called for it and would be excited to read the fanfiction about it.  

[nksarmi]

You know what bothers me about this show? Legends just gave me a very satisfying ending to dispatching their season long villain. On Arrow, because of this weird no kill rule that only sometimes applies, a crazy villain (whom I'm actually starting to love) has to kill the evil wife and destroy the evil complex because the good guys are too concerned about saving "innocent" people who are cool with nuking the whole damn world. Do I have some hope that Darhk will die?

Sure, but since this is the season of magic and Harry Potter references - I'm sure it's going to come down to Darkh's killing curse meeting Oliver's love magic and bouncing off it to kill himself. Hey does anyone know if they snuck the actor who plays Tommy and the actress who plays Moira into the set? Because the black canary siting could SO be Oliver being surrounded by his dead loved one and them giving him strength ala Deathly Hallows.

All I ask is to see Darhk get an arrow through both eyes and Malcolm be beheaded ala Highlander by Thea. Is that really not the good guy move show?

[Chaser]

Random thought. Is this the first press release that includes PB? 

[BkWurm1]

12 hours ago, lemotomato said:

I got all verklempt at the one armed hug and them talking over comms in last night's ep. I'm hoping to get something Olicity positive in the finale, but I'm not holding my breath.

How about some really raunchy shoulder touches?

12 hours ago, wonderwall said:

I mean there are a few choices here:

• Oliver/Felicity end the season still being at odds - which could potentially mean that they'd be mending their relationship (if they did stay in Starling) over the break... Which no. 
• Oliver/Felicity end the season on a hopeful note - which means that all they need is time (which is the hiatus) before they get back together. They'll also have some time to mend fences in the first few episodes of next season. 
• Oliver/Felicity get together at the end of the season - which would mean a lot of rushed development considering they broke up officially in episode 16

Would I rather have not deal with the baby mama? Sure. But out of all the aforementioned choices we have, the 2nd bullet point is actually the best one, which is probably what the writers are going for. 

Regardless in the end, all that's required for them to work as a couple again is for Felicity to give Oliver another chance (if she deems him worthy of a 2nd chance, which the fact that Oliver is slowly changing and becoming more hopeful means that she will), and for Oliver to be willing to change. Then they can work on overcoming their issues together. 

I think number two can work if they somehow spell out the terms, that right now, while they are in a better place, it's too soon so for now they will concentrate on rebuilding the city.  

I think I would also be ok if right at the start of season five, Olicity were back together as a couple and then a few episodes in, Oliver gets confronted with his typical go it alone and lie problem and then SWERVE doesn't actually go it alone.  All I need if for Oliver to eventually prove he's changed.  I don't care if Felicity forgives him and takes a risk on him before he's proved himself. 

11 hours ago, Chaser said:

With Diggle/Thea gone, city taking a beating and Oliver's public speeches, are we sure Olicity is going to be a vigilante team at all?

Maybe Oliver is Mayor and Felicity does something else? 

I actually really like this idea.  Let him spend the summer being the hero in the light. 

Oliver can work on the politics and government stuff and Felicity can help reboot industry and business.  (Maybe get her old job back, If for no other reason than no other CEO will take the Palmer Tech job, lol)  Maybe they both would just be so busy they don't have time to worry about rebuilding their relationship. 

Green Arrow wouldn't have to completely go away, just stick to small stuff that he could handle without a huge amount of back up.  There's a comic contingent that is obsessed with GA being there for the little guy on a street level.  That would make them very happy. 

[bijoux]

7 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

How about some really raunchy shoulder touches?

Quote

Green Arrow wouldn't have to completely go away, just stick to small stuff that he could handle without a huge amount of back up.  There's a comic contingent that is obsessed with GA being there for the little guy on a street level.  That would make them very happy. 

It wouldn't make me unhappy either.

[lemotomato]

18 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

How about some really raunchy shoulder touches?

My first OTP was Mulder/Scully. I used to live for raunchy shoulder touching. Olicity has had some good ones.

Edited May 20, 2016 by lemotomato

[kismet]

19 hours ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Oh yes, I thought that was a dig at Oliver but it left me perplexed to be honest because Donna chose to take a child away from what she thought was an unhealthy situation for her, while Oliver lied to Felicity because Samantha told him to. I can see the parallel better with Donna being the Samantha of the situation.

I think the point may be made the Donna parallels both Baby Mama & OQ. Her sacrificial push in front of the secrets & lies bus by the writers clears the path of redemption for all parties.

I'm not saying that OQ is in the clear. He still has a lot of work to do to repair his relationship and become a better romantic partner. I just think life is complicated and things are not always so black and white. The break-up was necessary. But its clear that the path to reunion is getting laid down brick by brick since the moment FS walked out.

[Mellowyellow]

16 hours ago, calliope1975 said:

You know there was at least one angry ex sex hookup so it could happen, not that I want it to. Oh wait, you're saying that was just in my head? Pfft.

Make it happen in fanfic hun!!!! Go forth and write it for us!!!!!!

[Midnight Lullaby]

1 hour ago, kismet said:

I think the point may be made the Donna parallels both Baby Mama & OQ. Her sacrificial push in front of the secrets & lies bus by the writers clears the path of redemption for all parties.

I'm not saying that OQ is in the clear. He still has a lot of work to do to repair his relationship and become a better romantic partner. I just think life is complicated and things are not always so black and white. The break-up was necessary. But its clear that the path to reunion is getting laid down brick by brick since the moment FS walked out.

I thought they cleared the path for redemption with Noah, not Donna because they showed him taking a bullet for Felicity and being there for her when she needed him. He broke her trust the first time they met again this season but he proved he can be worthy of that trust if given another chance and that I think can be applied to the Oliver situation as well.

With Donna I have my doubts because I understood why she left when Felicity was a child but I can't find excuses for what she did at the end of the episode.

With Oliver and Felicity I would have been more than happy if they put them in a situation where Oliver could prove that he meant what he told her about being different but we don't have time for that because poor Thea has to be drugged again and we have to watch zombie poppy going crazy, LOL.

[Genki]

I'm trying to work out what parallel they are trying to draw in 4.22 between Felicity, her parents and her and Oliver, and I feel they were trying to show the following: 

Felicity gets her strong stance about people, (and their ability to change or not), from Donna. Which is understandable as she raised Felicity and was her main influence, and a constant, in her formative years. Donna has also been shown to have some pretty firm lines and ideas about right and wrong, which Felicity has always accepted, probably without question, (also it is in text that the her personality and behaviour is strongly influenced by Donna - 3.05). 

Recently Noah has proven to Felicity that Donna was right, and he is not reliable and that he will let her down again, reenforcing Donna's POV, to Felicity, that "People Don't Change". So it is easy for Felicity to draw a line, specifically after hurting her so badly, that Oliver will hurt her and will let her down again. Leading to break-up with no hope of reconciliation, from Felicity's POV.

Now, in this week's episode, Donna is shown to be, not quite as honest as previously believed. She has also be shown that maybe, she is holding a little too firmly to her stance (pushing Noah to leave again), maybe so that she won't feel guilty about breaking up Felicity and Noah's special bond*, maybe because she does not want to loose Felicity over the decisions she made for their family, in the past.

She has also shown Felicity that her unconditional love for her, trumps her strong stance about lying, (in spite of her hurt about finding out that Felicity was keeping secrets from her, Donna quickly moved past Felicity's Team Arrow reveal), which made it possible for Felicity to quickly move past Donna's lies about Noah leaving.

All this brings me around to Felicity and Oliver, if she can forgive her Mother for her lies, so easily because she loves her so much and because her Donna has shown she can forgive Felicity's own lies, plus if Felicity feels that maybe her mum has judged her dad a little too harshly, (by not being willing to "gamble on him"), but she has seen there are some redeeming aspects of his character, for her, maybe she can put some hope with Oliver, who she loves so much, so she can start to moving  towards regaining her faith in him and their relationship.

I would have liked to have had Oliver demonstrate definitively to Felicity that he has learnt his lesson, but as far as character growth goes, Felicity regaining faith in Oliver and their relationship, could be better for Felicity in the long term (and also helping Oliver counteract Dhark's magic) and we can always have Oliver proving her right in S5.

*Please note: I don't doubt Donna's reasons for what she did I'm sure they were legit and I'm very intrigued to find out what happened.

[way2interested]

So, I'm trying to figure out the timeline of events, but I'm still pretty blank on what's happening next week, especially compared to last year where everything was pretty cut and dry save for a few minor details. 

Like, I'm guessing that Oliver comes back to the loft because of those bts stuff of SA at the loft with CR and EBR, but Darhk apparently still gets control of the missiles so? And then I'm not really sure what else is going on other than that big battle between Darhk and Oliver and the city. Afterwards that's when everyone probably heads their separate ways (including Lance and Donna riding off together but Oliver and Felicity visiting presumably Laurel's grave), but besides that I've got nothing. The Arrow Cave gets attacked at some point? Where are Diggle and Thea during this episode? Why are Curtis and Felicity on a roof? Why am I even asking these questions?

Truth be told, I kind of like not knowing what's happening next compared to last year, but my spoiler-aholic self needs to know more.

[looptab]

16 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Truth be told, I kind of like not knowing what's happening next compared to last year, but my spoiler-aholic self needs to know more.

Me too. =) I just hope that the city riot is better than the one with Brick (which seems to be the case, based on the photos), though I'm asking, are the citizen going to throw stones at the Ghosts? They have guns and automatic weapons and stuff!

[nksarmi]

I guess I'm the only one who just doesn't have any issues with Donna's actions this last episode. She didn't MAKE Noah leave - she told him she WANTED him to leave. If he listened, it's because what she said rang true enough to him for him to listen. He is clearly a criminal and likely has been for a very long time. He probably told Donna he would/had reformed multiple times until she had enough. Her not believing in him now is just consistency. If he wanted to stick around for Felicity and prove to both himself, her, and Donna that he had changed - he could have. Donna did nothing wrong.

Any idea if he's in the finale? I mean the time span between him leaving and Darhk showing up was pretty damn short. I expect him to still be in the city when all the crap goes down next episode. Maybe I will just have to hand wave away his lack of return like I did Roy leaving even though Thea was in the hospital earlier this season because of actors and real life and all that.

[bijoux]

1 hour ago, way2interested said:

So, I'm trying to figure out the timeline of events, but I'm still pretty blank on what's happening next week, especially compared to last year where everything was pretty cut and dry save for a few minor details. 

Like, I'm guessing that Oliver comes back to the loft because of those bts stuff of SA at the loft with CR and EBR, but Darhk apparently still gets control of the missiles so? And then I'm not really sure what else is going on other than that big battle between Darhk and Oliver and the city. Afterwards that's when everyone probably heads their separate ways (including Lance and Donna riding off together but Oliver and Felicity visiting presumably Laurel's grave), but besides that I've got nothing. The Arrow Cave gets attacked at some point? Where are Diggle and Thea during this episode? Why are Curtis and Felicity on a roof? Why am I even asking these questions?

Truth be told, I kind of like not knowing what's happening next compared to last year, but my spoiler-aholic self needs to know more.

I think I saw a red suit jumping from the platform and tackling someone in the lair, so that's Thea. And Dig is in the photos with Lyla and GA during the night attack. Now, I'm not sure where he is during the day when Oliver is inspiring the populace. Felicity and Curtis are obviously hanging out at a roof at this point with Curtis fending off missiles with a barcode scanner.

19 minutes ago, nksarmi said:

Any idea if he's in the finale? I mean the time span between him leaving and Darhk showing up was pretty damn short. I expect him to still be in the city when all the crap goes down next episode. Maybe I will just have to hand wave away his lack of return like I did Roy leaving even though Thea was in the hospital earlier this season because of actors and real life and all that.

I have no proof one way or another, but I don't expect him in the finale.

[looptab]

Eh, I didn't even give that much thought to that convo between Donna and Noah - beside thinking, hey, Felicity is a grown woman now - and frankly I don't think the writers did, either. I just assumed he wouldn't be in the finale and so they needed a reason for him not being around when shit hits the fan next episode, and that's what they came up with.

Edited May 20, 2016 by looptab

[Midnight Lullaby]

I have a problem with that because Donna decided for her and for Felicity that he is never going to change and told him to leave if he loves Felicity. The problem is that she hasn't seen him for twenty years so can't people change? Are people always so undeserving of second chances?

He left because he believed what she said, that he isn't worthy enough to stick around and Felicity is better off without him. 

I don't think it was Donna's call to make, not anymore. Felicity is an adult, knows who her father is so if she wanted, despite all of it, to have a relationship with him it should be up to her. Her mom made sure that possibility wasn't even available to her. 

[nksarmi]

35 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I have a problem with that because Donna decided for her and for Felicity that he is never going to change and told him to leave if he loves Felicity. The problem is that she hasn't seen him for twenty years so can't people change? Are people always so undeserving of second chances?

He left because he believed what she said, that he isn't worthy enough to stick around and Felicity is better off without him. 

I don't think it was Donna's call to make, not anymore. Felicity is an adult, knows who her father is so if she wanted, despite all of it, to have a relationship with him it should be up to her. Her mom made sure that possibility wasn't even available to her. 

 

My computer keeps freezing when I try to type my response lol....

 

Anyway, for real life reasons - this gives the show an out to say that Noah didn't abandon Felicity and Donna during Darhk's attack because he had already left. (We'll ignore that he had only left by a few minutes because I had to do that same thing with Roy and Thea earlier this season). So if he shows up next season - it's not like it will be all "you left me when Darkh attacked" - which is good.

 

For in story reasons - I think Donna has every reason to say what she did (many single mothers would in that situation) and it's not like Felicity can't reach out to her dad again if she wants (she has his number right?). Donna just expressed HER wishes but Felicity is still free to choose.

Edited May 20, 2016 by nksarmi

[Midnight Lullaby]

3 minutes ago, nksarmi said:

Ok if we ignore th

??

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

??

Poor @nksarmi keeps having an issue with the board posting her reply before she's finished writing it, haha.

[nksarmi]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

Poor @nksarmi keeps having an issue with the board posting her reply before she's finished writing it, haha.

Actually I've been doing so good since the board changeover but this time it ate my post like six times!

[Midnight Lullaby]

10 minutes ago, nksarmi said:

My computer keeps freezing when I try to type my response lol....

 

Anyway, for real life reasons - this gives the show an out to say that Noah didn't abandon Felicity and Donna during Darhk's attack because he had already left. (We'll ignore that he had only left by a few minutes because I had to do that same thing with Roy and Thea earlier this season). So if he shows up next season - it's not like it will be all "you left me when Darkh attacked" - which is good.

 

For in story reasons - I think Donna has every reason to say what she did (many single mothers would in that situation) and it's not like Felicity can't reach out to her dad again if she wants (she has his number right?). Donna just expressed HER wishes but Felicity is still free to choose.

Oh sorry I didn't know. I thought something happened to your message but I didn't know if you noticed :)

But she expressed her wishes about Felicity's life, that's my issue. If Donna doesn't want to have anything to do with him she has every right to, no doubt, but Felicity is an adult, just don't meddle, it's not your business. Felicity can always decide to contact him if she wants but it's not much freedom when her mom that is the only parent she knows keeps telling her it's the wrong decision and acts hurt when Felicity accidentally called her father "dad".

I understand instead what she did when Felicity was a child, but even then I think she should have come clean sooner because her lie about what happened with her dad clearly hurt and affected Felicity. In episode 6 we have Felicity having doubts about her own relationship because she has abandonment issues when her dad didn't even abandon her in the first place.

[HJCougar]

I think it is totally understandable why Felicity forgave her mother.  She's her mother for goodness sake and Donna did what she did to protect her daughter.  I have personally lived through something similar in my life and I have to say that I just couldn't stay mad at my mother...she's my mother. She loves me, she protects me, she still wants to provide for me (even though I am way past the age of needing her to do so).  She's my mother. 

Did it change how I look at other people?  Yes.  Am I harder on other people who do the same thing as my mother did?  Absolutely.  Did it make me realize that I never ever wanted to get married and have kids?  YES...IN ALL CAPS.  But it doesn't change the fact that I love my mother and forgave her, pretty easily actually.

So I understand why Felicity assured her mother that she wouldn't lose her and forgave her.  But that doesn't mean that the lessons she learned growing up isn't going to factor in when dealing with someone who isn't her mother and could affect her life in the future by doing the same thing (i.e., Oliver's inability to tell the truth or ability to withhold the truth and locking her out of her own life).  I'm interested to see how TPTB are going to try to connect these two things because to me, they are two totally different circumstances. I love Olicity with everything I have for a fictional couple, but they both need to work on things about themselves and work together as a couple to move forward.  And trying to slide over that work by the writers trying to say that what Donna did is the same as what Oliver did and therefore Felicity needs to forgive Oliver the same as she did her mother is just not going to cut it for me.

[looptab]

The stuff with Donna and Noah it's even funnier for me, when I think that in 317 she was all "Your dad this and that! Yay!" and all because Felicity needed a pep talk to inject Ray with the nanites. If only they had left her father out of it that time - it wasn't really necessary.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I understood why she forgave her mother, even if I wouldn't have faulted her if she got mad in the moment she found out before forgiving her because the lie was about something big. But I think what Donna did was understandable. What I didn't like was Donna making the decision for Felicity at the end of the episode because now Felicity is an adult and more than capable of making her own decisions.

[ComicFan777]

As much as I understand why Donna lied and why Felicity quickly forgave her, I wish that Donna had told Felicity the truth sooner - when she was old enough to understand her mother's reasons, but well before she was 26.  It's heartbreaking to think that Felicity grew up thinking: "When I was a girl, I hated myself.  I thought I was broken.  That no one could or ever would love me.  It's the only way a child can grow up when their father abandons them.  All I ever wanted to know was, what was so wrong with me, that you would leave."