Spoiler Discussion Thread

[EmilyBettFan]

I think I was one of them who thought they would kill Laurel.

[BkWurm1]

I was rewatching 4.14 and I'm really starting to wonder if Poppy is a figment of Oliver's imagination/hallucination.  Does she ever actually talk to anyone other than Oliver? Not even kidding.

So Oliver hallucinated Shado who told him he was in love with his hallucination Poppy?  Makes as much sense as anything else in that sentence. 

 

 

A more serious answer, she in the most recent episode spoke to one of the guards and told him to go help Reiter in the tunnel and they reacted so while I wouldn't rule out a mass hallucination, it seems unlikely. 

Edited April 15, 2016 by BkWurm1

[catrox14]

So Oliver hallucinated Shado who told him he was in love with his hallucination Poppy?  Makes as much sense as anything else in that sentence. 

Wait, what?

[BkWurm1]

Wait, what?

Is the confusion over the fact that Oliver actually hallucinated Shado who then told him he loved Poppy or that we were kidding around that Poppy is also a hallucination? 

[catrox14]

Is the confusion over the fact that Oliver actually hallucinated Shado who then told him he loved Poppy or that we were kidding around that Poppy is also a hallucination? 

 

I was only half kidding about Poppy..LOL.  And I have no memory of Shado telling him he loved Poppy.  But I can more believe Hallucinaton!Shado told him he loved Hallucination!Poppy more than actually loving Poppy. 

[bijoux]

I doubt that any of the show's couples will be at the flower stall to purchase flowers. It just seems like the place of DD and GA's showdown.

https://twitter.com/smoaksqueen/status/720836369057054720

[Morrigan2575]

Seriously though... Why does she always wear pants when they're about to get it on?! :p

Are you talking about this one? Because this looks like a long skirt... Also they really need to burn that coat.

Damnit. When i first looked, the image was darker, it seemed like pants. Oh, boo!

[GirlvsTV]

If at some point during this finale fight Oliver does not rip open his Arrow jacket and poke out his tummy as his magic tattoo shoots a stream of light at Darhk Care Bear Stare- style then what was it all for?

BONUS if this ability was discovered after Felicity completed a very hands-on examination of said tattoo and then researched it - which ends up being the entire A plot of 4x20.

[kismet]

I was rewatching 4.14 and I'm really starting to wonder if Poppy is a figment of Oliver's imagination/hallucination. Does she ever actually talk to anyone other than Oliver? Not even kidding.

That would be a twist I would love to see. Only problem is she has shot actual guards while OQ not in the room; sovhow could the show explain it? Although I honestly wouldn't care if they said just cos. But I do remember there being an extra grave on the island. I don't think OQ has lost it enough to bury his imaginary friend.

[jay741982]

We know Oliver has a final Showdown with Damien in the finale, I need a Diggle vs Andy, Felicity vs one of Brie, Cooper or Noah and Thea vs Anarkhy or Malcolm showdown going on at the same time please lol

[bijoux]

Brie's one episode was more than enough. Noah is the obvious choice. Cooper can be his annoying lackey that both Noah and Felicity swat away like an annoying flea. I haven't heard anything about Anarky coming back.

I'm not sure if Andy will be a factor in the finale or tfey'll deal with him earlier since he plays a part in 420.

[jay741982]

I'd like to see Felicity actually fight Cooper and kick the shit out of him lol. I think she probably has more fight experience than him

[tv echo]

Reiter has addressed Taiana directly and, in one episode, he asked Oliver about the whereabouts of "Miss [whatever her last name is]".

[Morrigan2575]

a friend mentioned a theory she saw on twitter and I really liked it.  The theory is that Oliver takes Felicity back to Lian Yu in 420 to go looking for something magical to use against Darhk since that's where they found the totem.

 

I like that theory.  Make it happen show!

[ComicFan777]

If at some point during this finale fight Oliver does not rip open his Arrow jacket and poke out his tummy as his magic tattoo shoots a stream of light at Darhk Care Bear Stare- style then what was it all for?

 

 

I totally vote for the Olli-Bear Stare!

 

[bijoux]

Cool. Do we have any BTS photos of EBR in pants? That would support this theory.

[apinknightmare]

a friend mentioned a theory she saw on twitter and I really liked it. The theory is that Oliver takes Felicity back to Lian Yu in 420 to go looking for something magical to use against Darhk since that's where they found the totem.

I like that theory. Make it happen show!

And maybe they have to stay over night and cuddle for warmth.

[bijoux]

But if they can't drop in on Slade, what's the trip for?

I do honestly like the spec because Felicity gets invited into IslandOliver's world.

[way2interested]

But if they can't drop in on Slade, what's the trip for?

I do honestly like the spec because Felicity gets invited into IslandOliver's world.

Not to mention, Felicity's the only one who doesn't know that Oliver saw the totem or the magic on the island. I guess you can assume that she finds out between 418-419 since she's got to wonder how Laurel died in the first place, but yay for showing and not telling possibilities!

[looptab]

Also for all that stuff she said to him in 416 about reverting to the man on the island, alone. (Though technically there was a village but whatever.) This time he'd ask for her help and/or take her with him. It's a beat that probably happened a couple hundreds times already - him accepting people's help - but I don't care, now I want "Olicity - Back to Minefield Island".

[Chaser]

The Island is the only place that makes sense.

When was Parker Young's last day? I'm curious if he dies. I don't think he is going to turn out evil.

I wonder if Diggle is going solo or if Lyla is coming too.

I would be okay skipping 4x19. This sounds much more interesting.

[looptab]

What do we have about those days of shooting, in terms of BTS, pics, etc? Damn, they distracted us with all those leaked photos!

Edited April 15, 2016 by looptab

[tv echo]

When was Parker Young's last day? I'm curious if he dies. I don't think he is going to turn out evil.

I have a feeling that Alex dies or leaves in 420.  The next episodes (421, 422, 423) were shot from March 17 to the present.

 

According to Parker Young's twitter: he was crashing a wedding on March 19, playing with his dog on March 23, hanging out in Santa Monica on March 24, and competing in a charity triathlon in Miami on April 3. There's no indication that he's returned to Vancouver to film more Arrow.

 

There's also this PY tweet from March 2:  "Will somebody please tell daviddean11 to find me a job, cuz daddy needs a new swimsuit! (I let… https://www.instagram.com/p/BCeCAjJh3Hr/ "

 

(However, if Alex is still alive, I suppose PY could still return to shoot 423.)

Edited April 15, 2016 by tv echo

[Guest]

Just catching up on the thread...yay to Oliver and Felicity working together in 420. I hope this is the start of them being on good terms again and hopefully Oliver including her in decisions etc... I'm interested in how far Diggle is gonna go too. But I'm kind of like 'huh?' at Thea going on vacation with her boyfriend while Damien is still out there. Pick a better time, Alex! 

 

On that note, what exactly was the point of Alex this season? He's barely featured and when he does it's just very meh. Yet another character/actor they wasted. Sigh. This show sometimes...

[lemotomato]

When was Parker Young's last day? I'm curious if he dies. I don't think he is going to turn out evil.

His Instagram post from 3 weeks ago sounds pretty final: "So long Vancouver. Thanks for teaching me that I can go without sun for 7 weeks. Happy Wednesday everyone." 

[Morrigan2575]

OK so for 420 we know:

They filmed between 3/7-3/16.  

They filmed stunts on 3/7 at a hospital (that kind of looks like a courthouse building) - 

#Arrow is at Riverview's East Lawn building. Looks like it's a second unit. @olv #yvrshoots

 

From Chicago Con - so it's got to be either 419 or 420

Asked Stephen if he could write his favorite #Olicity quote. He wrote this and said it hasn't happened yet #arrow

https://twitter.com/liveamity/status/709071900819984384

 

#420 he gave a Genesis song title instead of Billy Joel - Land of Confusion

 

I can't really find any pictures from 420, i have no idea what was filmed where

Edited April 15, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[bijoux]

Going through Spoilers Only and Social Media threads on production dates for 420, I got the same results as @Morrigan2575. And that was a lot of pages of Social Media since HVFF Chicago was held then, the Felicity promo poster was released, photos from EBR's photoshoot started to come out and there was back and forth about KC. The only photo was one of the hospital location and even that one was pulled from Google images. 

 

And I think this is the same building from a different angle that Bamford posted on his Instagram.

 

Now I'm suspicious. It doesn't really seem like there are episodes without a single BTS photo.

[looptab]

I'm guessing the lack of pics is due to: No Echo, no Charlotte, no KC.

[bijoux]

Do we have confirmation of Echo being in 419? He has a photo with EBR in Felicity's green crossover dress posted 7 weeks ago. I hought it could have been from their deleted 418 scenes. But he also posted a video of Katrina at that time and we know she is back in 419.

[Password]

Is Cooper back this season?

[Morrigan2575]

Is Cooper back this season?

Paps said he was in 422 or maybe 423 i lost track

Edited April 15, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[tv echo]

Also for 420...

-- Fan tweet from HVFF-Chicago on Mar. 12: "David Ramsey is the sweetest!! He said that last night just filmed some great Andy SL stuff." (TriciaTesH tweet, page 340 of Social Media thread)

-- Per JBam, 420 is "awesome." (JBam tweet, page 33 of Spoilers thread)

[catrox14]

That would be a twist I would love to see. Only problem is she has shot actual guards while OQ not in the room; sovhow could the show explain it? Although I honestly wouldn't care if they said just cos. But I do remember there being an extra grave on the island. I don't think OQ has lost it enough to bury his imaginary friend.

 

I dunno. I had a thought that maybe all these flashbacks are really hallucinations or fuzzy memories because he's in Russia and being giving drugs or he's having a mental break. Maybe Poppy is real and she's been dosing him or something for vengeance. Who knows.

 

With magic idols, mind control pixie dust, lazarus pits and time travel, I think anything is possible now

[Belinea]

Maybe, if somebody at the CW has any interest in promotion, we will get a promo covering the last few episodes. I'd really appreciate that. Didn't MG even tease the final episodes promo last year? Seems like nobody is really interested in talking all that much currently.

[AyChihuahua]

I dunno. I had a thought that maybe all these flashbacks are really hallucinations or fuzzy memories because he's in Russia and being giving drugs or he's having a mental break. Maybe Poppy is real and she's been dosing him or something for vengeance. Who knows.

 

With magic idols, mind control pixie dust, lazarus pits and time travel, I think anything is possible now

That seems like a reach. Considering present-day has magic, etc., there's no reason to think the past doesn't as well.

[catrox14]

That seems like a reach. Considering present-day has magic, etc., there's no reason to think the past doesn't as well.

 

I'm saying Oliver could already be in Russia, with his mind being influenced by who knows what and the flashbacks are his mind being mucked with. I don't how magic in the past and magic in the present makes my spec a reach? Or maybe I'm missing some sarcasm?

[bijoux]

I don't think AyChihuaha is being sarcastic at all. She just seems to be saying that since there is magic in the present, there's no reason for Oliver to have conjured it up in the past.

[ComicFan777]

I wonder how does Oliver defeat Reiter on the island, since Darkh is basically the same villain - same totem, same powers. 

 

This is one of the those times that just seems stupid to hold out on the reveal in FB because 1) FB are dragging, 2) why doesn't Oliver remember and just do it the same way, or 3) show us why what he did in the past is no longer a good option and that's why he has to find another way...maybe it's just me being impatient...still waiting to see the point of FB besides eventually bringing us to Russia.

[bijoux]

If Reiter was buried alive closer to the end of the season, I'd worry about him popping up in present day.

[AyChihuahua]

I don't think AyChihuaha is being sarcastic at all. She just seems to be saying that since there is magic in the present, there's no reason for Oliver to have conjured it up in the past.

Thanks, I wasn't being sarcastic at all. I'm not sure what in my post sounded sarcastic. I think the idea that the island stuff isn't happening and/or Poppy's not real is a reach bc all the stuff happening on the island, both the drugs (slam) AND the magic have also happened in present-day, so if he's hallucinating that stuff five years ago and then it all turns out to be right, that's not really even a hallucination, it's seeing the future. Additionally Poppy has interacted with other people, numerous times, including the first time Oliver saw her when she was interacting with a guard.

 

And the idea that it's all a drug/breakdown-fueled dream gets into the same issues as above, plus that's a pretty wild theory for any show, but particularly for THIS show, and particularly particularly for a whole season on this show. Buffy did an episode like that, but it was one episode, and Buffy was generally a lot more experimental than Arrow.

 

So basically, either theory seems highly unlikely to me, both because things in the show have strongly contradicted either theory and bc this isn't that kind of show.

[bijoux]

When were the drugs in present day? I assume in that episode with crooked cops when The and Dig went to score some with her old dealer?

[catrox14]

I don't think AyChihuaha is being sarcastic at all. She just seems to be saying that since there is magic in the present, there's no reason for Oliver to have conjured it up in the past.

 

I didn't say nothing happened on island with the magic idol. I'm saying that he could be in Russia and the flashbacks are muddled in his mind due to drugs or mental break post island

Edited April 15, 2016 by catrox14

[AyChihuahua]

When were the drugs in present day? I assume in that episode with crooked cops when The and Dig went to score some with her old dealer?

Yes, I believe that was the episode. They listed off a bunch of drugs, and one of them was "slam," which is the name of the past drug.

[ComicFan777]

...maybe it's just me, but I find it kinda hilarious that anyone would hallucinate Poppy, just sayin'...   [no offense to the actress]

[catrox14]

...maybe it's just me, but I find it kinda hilarious that anyone would hallucinate Poppy, just sayin'...   [no offense to the actress]

 

I think she's pretty. Maybe he saw a picture of her somewhere on the island and that's what he remembers.

 

I think it's funny that in a show with Mirakuru, Vertigo, mind control herbs, metahumans, tech that makes Felicity walk and Laurel canary cry, magic idols, past fever dreams, and resurrections by magic water that somehow a guilt ridden hallucinating Oliver is a bridge too far. 

 

Hell, maybe she's really Head!Poppy BSG style. LOL

 

,

[AyChihuahua]

I didn't say nothing happened on island with the magic idol. I'm saying that he could be in Russia and the flashbacks are muddled in his mind due to drugs or mental break post island

 

 

Why would this be a reach when the show introduced drug fueled hallucinations with Mirakuru Vertigo and mind control herbs with Malcolm dosing Thea?

I guess, but you still get into the issue of him knowing stuff THEN that is an issue NOW. I mean, the idols were identical. So he's in Russia dreaming inaccurately of being on the island and seeing an idol that looks just like, and has the same powers as, an idol that doesn't actually pop up for 4/5 years? When that island/idol stuff didn't really happen?

 

Not to mention, there's simply no support for that theory in-show at all. His flashbacks aren't looking fuzzy or odd, they look just like they always have looked. He hasn't started hearing Russian voices or flipping bw island stuff and Russia stuff. And when did they start getting muddled? Were his S1/S2/S3 flashbacks muddled with Russia, also in the past? There's nothing indicating, at all, that he's gone to Russia yet.

 

I don't see the hallucinations situations as at all comparable. In them, current-day Oliver is just...having drug-fueled hallucinations, seeing people who have actually existed, or flashing back to things that happened. He's not past Oliver flashing back incorrectly to other past Oliver events, incorporating present-day events that literally haven't happened yet. If Oliver can see the future in dreams, that is an ability he should have been using this whole time. Is there anything at all you can point to that has happened in-show to support that theory? If it's just "Well, anything could happen," it's as likely that he's actually sedated on a rocket ship to Mars and EVERYTHING is a dream. But there's no evidence for that theory, either. 

 

As an aside, neither Mirakuru nor mind-control drugs are really THAT out there. We have lots of very serious performance-enhancing drugs that massively increase speed, strength, endurance, etc., lots and lots and lots of even legal drugs that cause hallucinations, and several drugs have the effect of making people more suggestible. There are also various parasitic organisms that turn their host organisms into, basically, zombies that the parasitic organism totally controls. (I know this because the fact that these organisms exist totally freaks me out, so I read about it a lot.) I'd put time-travel, super-speed, and magic into the "impossible" category, but not the various mind/body-altering substances, which kind of really do exist.

Edited April 15, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[Carrie Ann]

I didn't say nothing happened on island with the magic idol. I'm saying that he could be in Russia and the flashbacks are muddled in his mind due to drugs or mental break post island

 

Why would this be a reach when the show introduced drug fueled hallucinations with Mirakuru Vertigo and mind control herbs with Malcolm dosing Thea?

 

I think the point isn't that the show can't do it, it's that I don't think you're providing any narrative reason for why they WOULD do it, or evidence from what we've already seen.

 

I just don't see any narrative purpose in having most of the season's flashbacks being not-real, aside from a pretty weak "gotcha." If you can suggest narrative reasons for why the show would want some portion of this to have only taken place in Oliver's mind, I would consider it, but just "to get him to Russia" isn't enough for me. And in any case, I don't think there are any spoilers out there that back this, so maybe the conversation should move to the Hopes/Fears thread?

[catrox14]

I guess I didn't realize that theorizing based on past things in the show with things in the present and how it might affect Oliver in the future was verboten in the spoilers thread.  

 

I'll see myself out.

[ComicFan777]

I think she's pretty. Maybe he saw a picture of her somewhere on the island and that's what he remembers.

 

I wasn't thinking about her appearance at all...I was just thinking that Poppy's character is awfully bland for a person's mind to cook up.

 

[apinknightmare]

I guess I didn't realize that theorizing based on past things in the show with things in the present and how it might affect Oliver in the future was verboten in the spoilers thread.  

 

There wouldn't be anything wrong with this if your theories involved actual spoilers. Since they don't, it should go elsewhere. I don't think anyone was trying to keep you from theorizing, just trying to get you to move it to the right thread.