Spoiler Discussion Thread

[apinknightmare]

OMG THAT'S THE BEST THING EVER. I LOVE IT.

Yep! No complaints here.

[catrox14]

LOVE that promo photo! I still hate her codename though LOL

 

So here's a crazy thought. Could Oliver actually die? What if Felicity became the new Green Arrow? Is that too out of whack? I may or may not be operating on not enough sleep or caffeine.

[manbearpig]

Oh see, I totally disagree that they had to write Oliver stupid to keep Malcolm. IMO everything they did with Malcolm was to give rise to Laurel as BC.  I think he was actually the plot device here. 

 

I don't think they had to write Oliver as a complete dumbass around Malcolm, but...they did. Maybe a better show could have handled it better, but for me there's nothing they could do with Malcolm that would make me forget season three.

[AyChihuahua]

My problem with Malcolm is in no way that he's evil. Villains are supposed to be evil. My problem with him is that the show, and Oliver and Thea especially, seem to view him as not all that evil, and maybe redeemable, and definitely not punishable, because he's BLOOD family, which causes a near-psychotic disconnect in my mind.

 

Also I think JB's ridiculously hammy and not at all scary in the role.

So here's a crazy thought. Could Oliver actually die? What if Felicity became the new Green Arrow? Is that too out of whack? I may or may not be operating on not enough sleep or caffeine.

What now?

 

(ETA: I looked up the exact quote. It's actually from the Law & Order pilot.) There's this great line from Law & Order. One of my favorite tv lines ever, actually. This bald Medical Examiner is being questioned by a defense attorney:

 

"Isn't it possible that pneumonia killed Suzanne Morton?"
"It's possible that death rays from Mars killed her. But I don't think so."

 

So for me, Oliver dying and Felicity becoming the new Green Arrow is about as likely as death rays from Mars killing someone.

Edited March 10, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[catrox14]

I'm just looking at that promo photo.

 

She's wearing green. Her clothing looks not unlike Oliver's costume. Maybe the spoiler of Arrow not being the only show to kill off a character is actually a misdirect and the star that gets killed off is Oliver....

 

I don't know why I thought that but I did. 

 

My problem with Malcolm is in no way that he's evil. Villains are supposed to be evil. My problem with him is that the show, and Oliver and Thea especially, seem to view him as not all that evil, and maybe redeemable, and definitely not punishable, and also as BLOOD family, which causes a near-psychotic disconnect in my mind.

 

Also I think JB's ridiculously hammy and not at all scary in the role.

 

 

I guess to me a narcissistic, self-delusional psychopath who has an affair with his supposed best friend's wife and father's a child by said best friend's wife; who is largely an asshole to his own son; who sinks his best friend's boat with said best friend and best friend's son on it;  who kills his own son along with 500 other people because he decided that the best way to avenge his wife's murder is to level a large swath of the poorest community in Starling City with an earthquake machine(that's evil villain 101!); who drugs his own daughter to make her murder one of his enemies...(etc, etc) 

 

well call ME crazy but I that seems pretty evil to me.

Edited March 10, 2016 by catrox14

[AyChihuahua]

I guess to me a narcissistic, self-delusional psychopath who has an affair with his supposed best friend's wife and father's a child by said best friend's wife; who is largely an asshole to his own son; who sinks his best friend's boat with said best friend and best friend's son on it;  who kills his own son because he decided that the best way to avenge his wife's murder is to level an entire large swath of the poorest community in Starling City an earthquake machine!(that's evil villain 101 right there); who drugs his own daughter and gets her to murder one of his enemies...(etc, etc) 

 

well call ME crazy but I that seems pretty evil to me.

But see, I agree with you. So that raises the question of why the supposed heroes of the show keep letting him get away with it. The fact that they do makes them look delusional and/or incredibly hypocritical and/or unbelievably stupid.

Edited March 10, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[GreatAtBoats]

Thea's tried to kill Malcolm two times and considered it a third. I don't think she thinks he shouldn't be punished because they're biologically related.

[NumberCruncher]

Thea's tried to kill Malcolm two times and considered it a third. I don't think she thinks he shouldn't be punished because they're biologically related.

Agreed. The problem has always been that Oliver insists on keeping him alive for...reasons? I have yet to figure it out. I think if it were strictly up to Thea, Malcolm would have been dead long ago.

Edited March 10, 2016 by NumberCruncher

[Starfish35]

So here's a crazy thought. Could Oliver actually die? What if Felicity became the new Green Arrow? Is that too out of whack? I may or may not be operating on not enough sleep or caffeine.

Um.

.

.

.

.

Yeah. I think you need sleep. Sorry. :) There's no way in hell that Felicity's becoming the Green Arrow.

[wonderwall]

Felicity becoming GA will probably be the most stupid thing the show could ever do. And I adore her :p

[AyChihuahua]

Agreed. The probably has always been that Oliver insists on keeping him alive for...reasons? I have yet to figure it out. I think if it were strictly up to Thea, Malcolm would have been dead long ago.

She tried to kill him in S3. She also brought him SOUP and took care of him after Oliver so very stupidly rescued him from his very very earned punishment.

 

Now she goes to him for advice and is shocked, SHOCKED I SAY, to learn that he is the one who turned over William.

 

That is stupid and delusional. Not to mention, she could turn him over to the civil authorities at any time. See how being hunted internationally meshes with his lifestyle. In fact, any character in the show, including THE TWO IN LAW ENFORCEMENT, could/should out him as alive and in need of hunting. The fact that NOBODY does, makes them all look incredibly stupid.

[Midnight Lullaby]

Can we take the fact that Emily, David and Willa all got new promo pics this season as a hint they weren't considered as candidates for the grave?

[Tallis]

I'm just looking at that promo photo.

 

She's wearing green. Her clothing looks not unlike Oliver's costume.

I think it's this dress https://wornontv.net/53389/ from 404, just tinted green.

[catrox14]

But see, I agree with you. So that raises the question of why the supposed heroes of the show keep letting him get away with it. The fact that they do makes them look delusional and/or incredibly hypocritical and/or unbelievably stupid.

 

 

My head!canon is that on some level Oliver can't quite bring himself to kill Malcolm because of Tommy.  He lied to Tommy about not killing Malcolm when Tommy was dying and Tommy was so grateful that Oliver didn't kill him, that I wonder if that still sits with Oliver. Tommy's death was the entire reason Oliver stopped killing. Maybe on some level he thinks that would be a final breaking of Tommy's heart. I dunno.

 

Like I said, just my head!canon.  

Edited March 10, 2016 by catrox14

[tv echo]

Quick question: was CR filming only 4x19 or was she around for part of 4x20, too? 

 

I haven't seen any spoilers yet about anyone being in or filming for 420.

[statsgirl]

Alright, I might have suggested an idiotic scenario - I do believe that Thea shouldn't even think of being mad at Felicity, yet, it doesn't seem that far off to me as a hypothetical reason for a hypothetical conflict. It's not rational, but sometimes it happens to me that if someone I care about is hurting, I'll get upset with the person I believe responsible for it.¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I will be the proud outlier and say that I really like this for a scene between them.

 

I want Felicity to be irritated with Thea, but if Thea is irritated with Felicity for breaking up with Oliver, I'll be furious with Thea. Thea did something wrong. Oliver did something wrong. Samantha did something wrong. MM did something wrong. DD did something wrong. Felicity did NOTHING wrong. I don't think it's going to happen, though. I'm hoping even they realize how bad that would make Thea look, plus didn't she look guilty when Felicity glared at her after finding out Thea knew?

Thea looking guilty because she knows at some level that what she and Oliver did wrong is one the the things that makes the scene work for me.

 

This is Thea, who is barely 21 and who spent the first season rebelling with a shut mind and who walked out on Oliver because he didn't tell her that Malcolm was her biodad after seeing Slade kill Moira in front of them, the very time she should have clung to Oliver the most. Thea who refused to listen to Oliver at the start of season 3 when he tried to warn her about Malcolm and who lied to  his face about being in touch with Daddy Dearest.

 

Maybe it's because I'm desperate to see a Felicity/Thea scene where Thea acknowledges what Felicity means to Oliver (as opposed to season 3 when Thea was clueless about Felicity) but I can see Thea, finally bonding with her brother but still the emotionally immature and jumping-to-conclusions Thea that we've grown to know, seeing how hurting Oliver is, going to Felicity and telling her that she's being too hard on Oliver and needs to let him in again.  Thea blaming Felicity because what else could Oliver had done (in her eyes).

 

Don't forget, the compartmentalization gene came from Moira.

 

Oh this so fits, acknowledgment of a call to action of those disillusioned by the sufferings of the world = Andy Diggle.  He feels just as justified in his mission to be a savior to the world (or at least on the team to do so) as Diggle.  Right back to the idea that villains see themselves as the heroes of their own stories.  Andy chilling in the cage is so entrenched in his beliefs that he see his brother and Team Arrow engaging in folly to save a world beyond saving.  He has spared Diggle when given the chance so far, but what will he do if/when forced to choose between his mission/philosophy and Diggle (and by extension Lyla and Sara's)?

I think the show has done a good job of showing that Andy isn't the upstanding guy Diggle was giving us in the first seasons.  Right now, I don't really  know what he is or how he could have hidden his real self from Carly for so long.

 

The problem is, I don't really care. The show has failed to make me the least bit interested in him as a character outside of being Diggle's brother.

 

 Or they do a 'Murder on the Orient Express" thing where everyone has a shot at him. So killing him at the end is symmetry for me. It book ends the series.

That really works for me.  Give Roy and everyone else who lost people in the earthquake a shot at it too.

[AyChihuahua]

Maybe it's because I'm desperate to see a Felicity/Thea scene where Thea acknowledges what Felicity means to Oliver (as opposed to season 3 when Thea was clueless about Felicity) but I can see Thea, finally bonding with her brother but still the emotionally immature and jumping-to-conclusions Thea that we've grown to know, seeing how hurting Oliver is, going to Felicity and telling her that she's being too hard on Oliver and needs to let him in again.  Thea blaming Felicity because what else could Oliver had done (in her eyes).

And if that happens I will hate Thea's guts forever.

 

You want her to acknowledge what Felicity means to Oliver by...shitting all over Felicity? "Felicity, you are such a bitch, how dare you say something mean to my brother! He loves you and that's all that matters and you have to get back together with him, you bitch!"

[ComicFan777]

And if that happens I will hate Thea's guts forever.

 

You want her to acknowledge what Felicity means to Oliver by...shitting all over Felicity? "Felicity, you are such a bitch, how dare you say something mean to my brother! He loves you and that's all that matters and you have to get back together with him, you bitch!"

 

I honestly wouldn't be surprised after what we saw in 4x14.  When LL is out of the picture, who are they going to write badly?

 

[statsgirl]

If it's written well, they can show that Thea is wrong, as she often is, while addressing the issue and what it means to be a partner both on the Team (Oliver screwed that one up in s2 Tremors) and in a relationship.

 

Because like others here, I don't think we're ever going to see Oliver apologize for shutting Felicity out of knowing about William.  Possibly apologize for not talking to her about his decision to send William away but even that I doubt.

 

I can handle Thea attacking Felicity because it gives Felicity the opportunity to say all those things they're not going to let her say to Oliver.

 

The only separation scenario I really hate is Oliver and Felicity having sex because they're so drawn to each other even though they're still split up.  I hope that scenario gets left at Grey's Anatomy who seem to love it.

[AyChihuahua]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised after what we saw in 4x14.  When LL is out of the picture, who are they going to write badly?

Dude, you're harshing my optimism buzz.

 

It would make no sense that she felt guilty for lying, because she had some awareness that she and Oliver did something wrong, and then she attacks Felicity. It also makes no sense that she shows that she knows how much Felicity means to her brother by attacking Felicity. I mean seriously: "I know my brother loves you so much and would die before he let anything happen to you...so I'm going to go ahead and yell at you until you get back together with him, bc you mean so much to him and therefore he'd love to know I was making you cry by blaming all his wrongdoing on you, and also name-calling always works to reconcile couples in trouble." 

 

I don't see it happening; I really don't. She has 1000 reasons to go to PT, and there are 1000 ways she can interact with Felicity, none of which requires her to be a wretched horrible character. I'm betting she sees how sad they both are in 4.16 and she just wants to see if she can do anything to help.

 

I have always thought a lot of the terrible LL writing was due to KC's failures as an actress (and the terrible chemistry, which is not her fault)...they kept up the stupid crap writing bc they always had to try something new, bc she always failed at whatever they gave her. That's not the case with WH. She's not the best actress in the world, but she's not a total fail. It's not like it's a rule that one character always has to suck. Plus, if it is a rule, they have Malcolm Merlyn for that.

Edited March 10, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[ComicFan777]

I have always thought a lot of the terrible LL writing was due to KC's failures as an actress (and the terrible chemistry, which is not her fault)...they kept up the stupid crap writing bc they always had to try something new, bc she always failed at whatever they gave her. That's not the case with WH. She's not the best actress in the world, but she's not a total fail. And it's not like it's a rule that one character always has to suck. Plus, if it is, they have Malcolm Merlyn for that.

 

Yeah, there's always Malcolm - I'll give you that. ;p

 

[Midnight Lullaby]

I'm feeling optimistic about the next Thea/Felicity scene because they used Thea to make a point in 14, they did it, Oliver and Felicity broke up without Oliver looking too bad (in the gullible audience's opinion) so now there's no reason for her to act like she is MG and can go back to being herself.

[statsgirl]

It would make no sense that she felt guilty for lying, because she had some awareness that she and Oliver did something wrong, and then she attacks Felicity. It also makes no sense that she shows that she knows how much Felicity means to her brother by attacking Felicity. I mean seriously: "I know my brother loves you so much and would die before he let anything happen to you...so I'm going to go ahead and yell at you until you get back together with him, bc you mean so much to him and therefore he'd love to know I was making you cry by blaming all his wrongdoing on you, and also name-calling always works to reconcile couples in trouble."

I  know, it doesn't make sense. But in real life people do behave like that.  And they attack more the guiltier they feel.

 

However, I don't think it's going to happen. They're just going to gloss over it and never bring it up again.  Thea will have some other reason to be at PT.

Edited March 10, 2016 by statsgirl

[kismet]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised after what we saw in 4x14.  When LL is out of the picture, who are they going to write badly?

 

Sadly this might come true with these writers... LL being in the grave might be a careful what we wish for scenario if the writers don't change some of their  stubbornness & stop using their crutches of badly written plots & tropes. I'm not saying I want to keep LL... I'm just a little concerned for the future of these other characters (esp the females).

 

Perhaps someone can get a bitchy assistant for the writers to vent their cattiness.

[wonderwall]

I don't think Thea is going to apologize to Felicity about condoning Oliver's lie. Only because Felicity didn't care about the lie, she cared about Oliver keeping her out of decisions. It would be pointless imo to have them talk about said lie. 

[Morrigan2575]

I think we need to keep in mind is that Felicity/Thea being trapped together is in 417. This is not only 4-5 weeks after the breakup but also post Could kidnapping/Fake Wedding.

Thea's visit to PT could be very easily related to something within 417 or related to events in 416. Maybe Thea is going to check up on Felicity because of something with Cupid. Or maybe Thea is going to Felicity/PT for help with something technical or heck maybe Donna drags Thea to PT for family girl time.

I now wonder if Donna even knows about the breakup in 415?

[bijoux]

I imagine Felicity and Oliver not cohabitating at this point, so she would have to know.

[ComicFan777]

In some of the BTS stuff, I noticed that there were sheets covering furniture in the loft area. 

Do you think Oliver moves out of the loft too? or do they normally do that if the set isn't used often?

Edited March 10, 2016 by ComicFan777

[bijoux]

I don't know that they both move out. Would they waste a set like that?

[ComicFan777]

I have a really bad memory...I remember seeing some pictures of people posing in the loft and the furniture looked covered with white sheets.  Then later, SA released a video in the dark-ish what looked like the loft and I remembered thinking it was weird that the furniture was covered again.  I just remembered thinking that it was strange because Felicity is the one who left the loft.

Edited March 10, 2016 by ComicFan777

[apinknightmare]

There were some BTS pics of DR playing with Baby Sara when they were shooting 4x11, and the furniture was not in its normal place, and IIRC some of it was covered. I think that's just something they do for whatever reason, and isn't necessarily indicative of who is living where. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

I think they took the pics with the Stanley cup in that set and the furniture wasn't in place. Unless I remember wrong.

[quarks]

I don't know that they both move out. Would they waste a set like that?

 

This is the sound of my bitter laughter.

[wonderwall]

This is the sound of my bitter laughter.

I read that post and I could almost hear you screaming lmfao

[ComicFan777]

You know, I just realized that it might actually make logical sense for Felicity not to have most of her scenes with Thea in 4x17 even though they are in the same place.  If Brie is after Felicity's implant, then she is the target, so Donna would be safest away from her.  If things go down just as Thea walks into PT, I could see her asking Thea to protect Donna and sending them in the opposite direction and we wouldn't even get any real Felicity/Thea scenes.  Hope this doesn't happen though because I would love to see them talking to each other for once.

[Ann Mack]

In the preview Oliver is fighting a dressed in black figure at Palmer Tech (PT). I wonder if the BEB comes to PT or if she sends her goons in first to take over the building? On The Flash she remotely controlled her minions and kept her distance. It's interesting she wants the technology but Felicity probably doesn't know what all Curtis did to make it functional and yet he is the one NOT in the building (imagine that lol). Curious as to what threat level they are going to put Felicity in 1. Get me the technology or every one dies, or 2. Okay if you don't know the technological procedures used to create it than I'll just take your implant - All of this of course being spoken by BEB. This episode has the potential to be really, really good and a little bit scary if written properly IMO.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Ann Mack

[lemotomato]

EK posted a video of him, CR, and EBR goofing off on the PT set, and CR posted a pic of her and WH. So I'm guessing at one point Curtis is at PT and Donna and Thea share scenes.

[ComicFan777]

In the preview Oliver is fighting a dressed in black figure at Palmer Tech (PT). I wonder if the BEB comes to PT or if she sends her goons in first to take over the building? On The Flash she remotely controlled her minions and kept her distance. It's interesting she wants the technology but Felicity probably doesn't know what all Curtis did to make it functional and yet he is the one NOT in the building (imagine that lol). Curious as to what threat level they are going to put Felicity in 1. Get me the technology or every one dies, or 2. Okay if you don't know the technological procedures used to create it than I'll just take your implant - All of this of course being spoken by BEB. This episode has the potential to be really, really good and a little bit scary if written properly IMO.

 

In the Flash comic, the sky lord robot dangled Felicity out the building and was going to drop her.  Along the same lines, I could imagine the robot threatening to just rip the implant out of her - totally gory and not gonna happen - but what can you expect from a robot controlled by a very angry Brie?

 

Edited March 11, 2016 by ComicFan777

[Ann Mack]

In the Flash comic, the sky lord robot dangled Felicity out the building and was going to drop her.  Along the same lines, I could imagine the robot threatening to just rip the implant out of her - totally gory and not gonna happen - but what can you expect from a robot controlled by a very angry Brie?

 

Thanks for the info! :)

[AyChihuahua]

This is the sound of my bitter laughter.

Deep, slow, calming breaths.

[looptab]

Re:the writers' tweets in the BTS thread, the challenge they are talking about is clearly having to write Thea/Felicity scenes. Jk :)

Seriously, I wonder what that might be. Involving Curtis? Or are they really including those robots?

Btw, I love how we are all just impatient for 417 and willing to forget 416. :D

[wonderwall]

Btw, I love how we are all just impatient for 417 and willing to forget 416. :D

 

Skipping 415-417 was always my plan but that stupid synopsis screwed up my entire plan so now I'm only skipping 415-416 ;)

Edited March 11, 2016 by wonderwall

[looptab]

I won't skip it, but I'm keeping my expectations very low. I'm prepared to cringe a lot during 416, that's why speculation for 417 it's way more appealing :)

[wonderwall]

I won't skip it, but I'm keeping my expectations very low. I'm prepared to cringe a lot during 416, that's why speculation for 417 it's way more appealing :)

 

Someone had a theory that Felicity is holding a T-Sphere because she'll use them to help save everyone in the company from Brie... I thought that was really interesting and I hope that happens haha

[Guest]

Hmm. So the writers of 417 are nervous about audience reaction to something in that episode. And whatever it is was challenging to write? I find that worrying/bizarre considering this show has done some dumb stuff and they've been surprised when the audience reacted negatively (Laurel using Sara's voice, Oliver marrying Nyssa to name a couple).

I have no idea what this means but yikes. Lowering my expectations for that episode then.

[Ann Mack]

Hmm. So the writers of 417 are nervous about audience reaction to something in that episode. And whatever it is was challenging to write? I find that worrying/bizarre considering this show has done some dumb stuff and they've been surprised when the audience reacted negatively (Laurel using Sara's voice, Oliver marrying Nyssa to name a couple).

I have no idea what this means but yikes. Lowering my expectations for that episode then.

Where did you get the writers are nervous about the audience reactions in 4x17 from? Thanks.

[Guest]

Where did you get the writers are nervous about the audience reactions in 4x17 from? Thanks.

It's the Twitter screenshots in the Social Media/BTS thread.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Guest

[Ann Mack]

It's the Twitter screenshots in the Social Media/BTS thread.

Thank you.

[wonderwall]

Hmm. So the writers of 417 are nervous about audience reaction to something in that episode. And whatever it is was challenging to write? I find that worrying/bizarre considering this show has done some dumb stuff and they've been surprised when the audience reacted negatively (Laurel using Sara's voice, Oliver marrying Nyssa to name a couple).

I have no idea what this means but yikes. Lowering my expectations for that episode then.

Ben and Brian both wrote: 305, 319, 322 (yikes) together... I'm not sure how to feel. The latter 2 were fantastic episodes and the last one was only really problematic because Guggenheim wanted that stupid PLOT TWIST ZOMG!

 

Individually:

 

Brian: 312 (boo), 316 (yay), 321 (boo), 405 (yay), 408 (BOO), 411 (YAY), 415 (boo)

Ben: 105, 110, 112 (yay), 120, 202, 206 (yay), 209 (YAY), 215 (meh), 222 (YAY), 311 (boo), 315 (BOO), 404 (meh), 409 (YAY), 413 (meh)

 

So really... It's a mixed bag lmao 

[SmallScreenDiva]

Someone had a theory that Felicity is holding a T-Sphere because she'll use them to help save everyone in the company from Brie... I thought that was really interesting and I hope that happens haha

 

I hope so, too. At the very least, I hope she plays a huge role in their rescue. Arrow has actually done a good job not damseling Felicity so I hope that continues in this episode.