Spoiler Discussion Thread

[dtissagirl]

Please let me have my little hope [delusion?] that the demon spawn is gonna go bye-bye from this show ASAP. He can come back in season eight when I'm not watching the show anymore because EBR is totally gonna skedaddle the second her options expire.

[Chaser]

I thought DR was implying he was going to buy something at the start of the season but didn't because of the grave thing. Maybe he meant it fell through. Still sad because he hasn't purchased one when he was planning too. That would be a bummer for anyone. 

 

I don't think we are ever going to be completely free of the BM and Kid. But I don't think they are moving to Star City either. I think they are going to move to offscreenville only to be casually mentioned or brought back when plot demands. I honestly don't believe that the EPs want to tie themselves to a kid and BM. 

[Morrigan2575]

They very well could keep the kid around, but if things go the way we're speculating, it won't make a damn bit of sense, and also makes Oliver and Samantha look like the most irresponsible and terrible parents ever. So that's probably what will happen.

Very true,  I just don't think the EPs decided to create the story in S2, revisit it in S3 and then make it a bigger part of the story in S4 (then just a cameo) for the specific purpose of making it/them disappear.   

 

I think it's a stupid story and wish it would all just disappear but, I don't think they agree with me.  I hope I'm wrong.

[Chaser]

It would not surprise me at all if DR is asking about Diggle/Felicity scenes. At this point, I think he wants Olicity and Dyla to double date.

 

Loved the Mr. & Mrs. Smith comparison.

[apinknightmare]

Very true,  I just don't think the EPs decided to create the story in S2, revisit it in S3 and then make it a bigger part of the story in S4 (then just a cameo) for the specific purpose of making it/them disappear.   

 

I think it's a stupid story and wish it would all just disappear but, I don't think they agree with me.  I hope I'm wrong.

 

Yeah, I wasn't talking specifically about what I thought they planned to do, just that the way they wrote it (probably unintentionally) made it so that the only believable outcome in which Samantha and Oliver don't look like complete morons is if she and William both disappear. 

[lemotomato]

I'm sad reading DR's headcanon about the Diggle-Felicity relationship, because it sounds so good, but we'll never get to see it onscreen.

[wonderwall]

Ookay... This might be the line Laura Hurley was talking about... But I think it's hilarious :p

 

[Velocity23]

I want the tears

http://www.ksitetv.com/green-arrow/arrow-7-things-about-tonights-episode-a-w-o-l/94747/

Edited January 27, 2016 by Velocity23

[dtissagirl]

So Oliver codenames her? I approve of that.

 

Also, yes, please, Craig, reminds us that Laurel and Oliver aren't lovers, hahahahaha.

Edited January 27, 2016 by dtissagirl

[catrox14]

Hmmm what about 'Hacktavist" for Felicity?

[bijoux]

Hmmm what about 'Hacktavist" for Felicity?

 

It's kind of harsh when said out loud. It actually sounds like you're hacking. As in coughing.

 

So Oliver codenames her? I approve of that.

Yeah, my money was on him or Dig since Laura commented someone would be pleased with how she is given the name.

[Chaser]

So Oliver codenames her? I approve of that.

 

Also, yes, please, Craig, reminds us that Laurel and Oliver aren't lovers, hahahahaha.

I didn't look at the website, but Craig makes sense. I couldn't figure out why that would be the scene that proves they don't sideline Laurel. Not the action or mention the DA thing. Nope, she talks to Oliver. LOL 

 

ETA: ..."Lovers".... Sounds creepy

Edited January 27, 2016 by Chaser

[catrox14]

 

It's kind of harsh when said out loud. It actually sounds like you're hacking. As in coughing.

 

Heh. Fair point.

[Morrigan2575]

I wanted Dig to name Felicity since Felicity named Dig. :(

[dtissagirl]

I didn't look at the website, but Craig makes sense. I couldn't figure out why that would be the scene that proves they don't sideline Laurel. Not the action or mention the DA thing. Nope, she talks to Oliver. LOL

 

I think we're now in the next phase of the Laurel Lance Crazy Bananapants Narrative Experiment: she doesn't have her own storyline, but now she has scenes with Oliver, she figures in parts of the A-plot, but she still doesn't influence/inspire/change/affect Oliver's plot in any possible way, and the A-plot still moves along almost as if through her -- if she weren't there, the story would be the same.

 

It's almost fascinating, really, if it weren't for the fact that Laurel is kind of like a dementor.

[Carrie Ann]

With every codename option, I picture someone under stress saying it over the comms in an action scene, and about 90% of the options fail the test for me. Just...imagine Oliver being choked out or something and being like, "HACKTIVIST...need...the...code!!!" Firewall and the ruled-out Oracle and Proxy are the only ones I've seen (that I recall) that I don't think sound that clunky, so I'm rooting for Firewall for now. (The clunkiness is a problem for me with most superhero names in general.) 

[Morrigan2575]

Binary! I still love Binary.

[Chaser]

I think we're now in the next phase of the Laurel Lance Crazy Bananapants Narrative Experiment: she doesn't have her own storyline, but now she has scenes with Oliver, she figures in parts of the A-plot, but she still doesn't influence/inspire/change/affect Oliver's plot in any possible way, and the A-plot still moves along almost as if through her -- if she weren't there, the story would be the same.

 

It's almost fascinating, really, if it weren't for the fact that Laurel is kind of like a dementor.

Laurel Lance: Dementor themed window dressing.

[Guest]

I wanted Dig to name Felicity since Felicity named Dig. :(

 

ME TOO. I knew we'd never get it. We're not allowed Delicity scenes anymore. Well, maybe one tonight. So generous! 

[Chaser]

I think its a bit too much of a coincidence that the word Firewall is seen on her computer and its a codename suggested. Pretty sure that's what they are going with.

 

Wonderwall had the sceencap showing Firewall if any wants to see it, it's back in the thread.

[kismet]

From Laura Hurley's Tumblr:

Seriously, if I ever left ARROW, I would miss Laura Hurley's insightful posts... I have like zero interest in watching this week because I am just fatigued from the writers & their games ~ but she might have just inspired me. Plus a L/O sparring scene to mock, how can I resist?

[lemotomato]

On just a practical level, Firewall is the snappiest codename option. 2 syllables like (Green) Arrow, Spartan, and Speedy

Edited January 27, 2016 by lemotomato

[kismet]

Idk that they would need to do a wheelchair storyline just to keep her out of the field.She already doesn't go unless they give her a reason to so I think they wouldn't have a problem just not writting plots that require her in the field.I really think they just think the wheelchair is a good way to give her a cruicible and an emotional storyline.I don't really agree though but I don't think they did it to sideline her.

I think there is a part of them that did it to keep her out of the field. It's clear from EBRs limited stunts & social media postings that she has some talent in the basic fighting dept. I can't imagine that has not gone unnoticed by fans who hound the writers And writers that perhaps are inclined to want to put FS in the field, this is a way to tame those tendencies & a harsh reminder from TPTB that FS is not a masked hero. Plus, it buys them time until next season when they will probably put her in the field. So it's a relationship & character plot stall all rolled into one...

 

I also think they per usual like to steal from Batman & Batman adjacent stories, so the wheelchair is pretty much their for them to take. Plus it's their little passive-aggressive gesture to the DC team. You can take away our ability to use "oracle" but we can still use the story.

 

It also fits their over-dramatic OMG (but not really) tendencies that we will be so amazing & groundbreaking to do a paralysis story. Like people will be raving about it, and we won't even make her cry this time.

 

Done well, I can imagine it would be a fabulous story for character growth and development. Beyond EBRs & SAs acting, I have no faith that it will actually accomplish anywhere near its potential. It's probably going to be more of a crutch for the writers than a crucible for FS.

[statsgirl]

I loved this line from Craig:

 

A lot of Season 4 so far is about how the characters have grown since their “origin stories;” this storyline also puts that together for several people.

He's getting the realization that the show isn't going to follow the comics, at last.  And that Green Arrow/Black Canary may not end up together.

 

Also the news tin the Collider interview hat they've realized the problems with Diggle's costume:

DAVID RAMSEY: Well, there’s been some progress. Actually, there will be some modifications to that helmet. So, yes, he is in a helmet, but that helmet is ever-evolving. There will be some improvements and enhancements to that helmet

 

Now if only they would give Oliver some arm protection again...

[kismet]

BRIAN FORD SULLIVAN CONFIRMED A DIGGLE/FELICITY SCENE. THIS IS NOT A DRILL!

GIRD YOUR LOINS!! The world as we know it may fall apart.... Between this & a L/O sparring scene, I'm really concerned if I should update my insurance policies.

 

Seriously, We are so overdue for a Dig/FS scene.... it's been ages.... and desperately needed!

[kismet]

Per MG's tweet, the Billy Joel song for 411 is "The Stranger".  I looked at the song lyrics and don't understand how this song would fit what I know of 411 (puzzled)

 

I think the song fits O/F's relationship, not quite sure how it fits 411 specifically... but I can roll with it.

Binary! I still love Binary.

I'm just so bummed I never thought of suggesting it to the writers.

[Chaser]

I would have been happy with Diggle giving Felicity her codename, but I do love the symmetry of Oliver putting her "mask" on her.

[AyChihuahua]

Thinking about the halluci-wedding, it could either be a big troll move, and a further chance for SA to show off his kicked puppy face. OR, it could be great. Say in the previous episode, Felicity dumps him. That dream is, seemingly, over. He may also lose the kid to witness protection, and the mayoral election. The latter two aren't necessary, though...so he's dumped, and sad, but he's let her walk away and given up that dream, bc when it comes to emotional stuff for himself, that's what he always does.  

 

Then he's drugged and hallucinates or dreams his perfect wedding to Felicity. I would love for the show, instead of using that to give us MORE sad Oliver, to make it the kick in the ass he needs to decide to WORK for Felicity. It has so many advantages...finally he'd be, effectively, giving himself a pep talk. Finally he'd be deciding to work and change for Felicity. Finally he'd be doing something to achieve his dreams instead of just sadly and resignedly giving them up. Plus, that would make the halluci-wedding mean something, actually something fairly big and good in Oliver's own psyche. 

[Mrs. de Winter]

The Diggle and Felicity scene better be more than a quick chat on the phone.  It has been absolutely ridiculous how little interaction they have had this season. 

 

In one of the interviews with DR he says Diggle would tell Oliver to give into "the man, to the husband, to the lover and go be by her side."   Is husband just a poor word choice or an overstatement?  Or could the wedding have been real and DR slipped? 

[kismet]

Thinking about the halluci-wedding, it could either be a big troll move, and a further chance for SA to show off his kicked puppy face. OR, it could be great. Say in the previous episode, Felicity dumps him. That dream is, seemingly, over. He may also lose the kid to witness protection, and the mayoral election. The latter two aren't necessary, though...so he's dumped, and sad, but he's let her walk away and given up that dream, bc when it comes to emotional stuff for himself, that's what he always does.  

 

Then he's drugged and hallucinates or dreams his perfect wedding to Felicity. I would love for the show, instead of using that to give us MORE sad Oliver, to make it the kick in the ass he needs to decide to WORK for Felicity. It has so many advantages...finally he'd be, effectively, giving himself a pep talk. Finally he'd be deciding to work and change for Felicity. Finally he'd be doing something to achieve his dreams instead of just sadly and resignedly giving them up. Plus, that would make the halluci-wedding mean something, actually something fairly big and good in Oliver's own psyche. 

Stop writing logical and character growing plotlines.... I might just start believing they are possible :)

[AyChihuahua]

In one of the interviews with DR he says Diggle would tell Oliver to give into "the man, to the husband, to the lover and go be by her side."   Is husband just a poor word choice or an overstatement?  Or could the wedding have been real and DR slipped? 

There's effectively zero chance it's a real wedding. Fiance is future husband, so I am sure it means nothing. Also, he seemed to mean 4.11, by which they're obviously not married yet.

Stop writing logical and character growing plotlines.... I might just start believing they are possible :)

I don't want more cold Felicity and sad puppy Oliver. I want him wooing the shit out of her, promising sincerely never ever to lie to her again, and SHOWING her that he means it.

[jay741982]

There's effectively zero chance it's a real wedding. Fiance is future husband, so I am sure it means nothing. Also, he seemed to mean 4.11, by which they're obviously not married yet.

I don't want more cold Felicity and sad puppy Oliver. I want him wooing the shit out of her, promising sincerely never ever to lie to her again, and SHOWING her that he means it.

I want that last part too but they seem so cold in that flash forward it gives me fears that Oliver will revert to season 3 Oliver and not fight for her

[Morrigan2575]

I fucking detest her codename

[apinknightmare]

Whoever suggested it to Guggs must've been trying to sweet talk him into releasing some BTS stuff. IF SAID SUGGESTER EVEN EXISTS. 

[Morrigan2575]

His ego knows no bounds

[Starfish35]

So if they killed off Amanda Waller......guys, do I need to be worried about Tatsu/Katana? Please say no. :(

Edited January 28, 2016 by Starfish35

[apinknightmare]

 

His advice to Oliver was, "Put the mission aside and give into the man, to the husband, to the lover and go be by her side." That will be his advice to him, but I'm betting you good money he won't listen.

 

So what the F was this, David Ramsey? This never happened. 

[Morrigan2575]

So if they killed off Amanda Waller......guys, do I need to be worried about Tatsu/Katana? Please say no. :(

Shit, didn't even think of that

[hogwash]

Now I'm even annoyed by the upcoming BM drama. This is what works.

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

So what the F was this, David Ramsey? This never happened. 

Maybe he was talking about last week, when he kept trying to get Oliver to go to the hospital?

[nksarmi]

Ok after this episode, I saw again - Felicity's anger in the cross-over was OOC and he HAS to do something more to make her break up with him.

 

As of right now it looks like Oliver figured out the boy was his, confronted BM on it, promised to keep it a secret, had a short play session with the kid, went home and told Felicity it was over, nothing to worry about and then proceeded to get entirely wrapped up in Starling City / Green Arrow business.

 

So unless they veer hard right sometime in the next couple of episodes, I don't see why his explanation wouldn't be "She didn't want me to be part of the boy's life and made me promise not to tell anyone about him. I was trying to figure out what to do when it became obvious I can't be part of his life because of what Darhk did to you.  It didn't make sense to tell you if I wasn't going to be able to see him and I didn't want you to worry about it when you needed to get better."

 

Now I know Oliver NEVER talks that much, but still while I could see that leading to angry Felicity - it would not lead to a break up in my head.  He HAS to do something more and given the Nyssa / Malcolm spoilers - I think that something more involves siding with Malcolm.

Edited January 28, 2016 by nksarmi

[Morrigan2575]

Soooo, Laurel now knows about Barry's time travel...hmm. I'm calling this a death anvil (for now) unless Oliver starts telling others

[apinknightmare]

Maybe he was talking about last week, when he kept trying to get Oliver to go to the hospital?

 

Maybe.

[Guest]

So what the F was this, David Ramsey? This never happened.

 

I actually do think he was talking about 410. He specifically told Oliver to go be with Felicity and to not lose what made her fall in love with him. 

[calliope1975]

Shit, didn't even think of that

 

Me neither. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they brought back Katana just to kill her off. I really, really hope not. 

[apinknightmare]

So unless they veer hard right sometime in the next couple of episodes, I don't see why his explanation wouldn't be "She didn't want me to be part of the boy's life and made me promise not to tell anyone about him. I was trying to figure out what to do when it became obvious I can't be part of his life because of what Darhk did to you.  It didn't make sense to tell you if I wasn't going to be able to see him and I didn't want you to worry about it when you needed to get better."

 

Coming straight off of what seems like some drama with her own father who abandoned her, it could be a compound of keeping the kid a secret, and leaving him without a father once he found out about it, which she'd probably have a difficult time accepting, even if he did explain why. But I do agree with you that after what we've seen of these two, it does seem like something else might compound things. But who knows with these writers. 

Edited January 28, 2016 by apinknightmare

[SleepDeprived]

Shit. I'm not happy about this possible death of Katana. I'm going to have to rethink my burgeoning excitement about enjoying the F out of that Suicide Squad movie because, based on the trailers, it looks like it might turn out fun. But Arrow's Tatsu is fantastic and I like her too much to lose her because DC thinks audiences are too dumb to be able to separate the two universes. Ugh, DC. Fail.

[AyChihuahua]

Coming straight off of what seems like some drama with her own father who abandoned her, it could be a compound of keeping the kid a secret, and leaving him without a father once he found out about it, which she'd probably have a difficult time accepting, even if he did explain why. But I do agree with you that after what we've seen of these two, it does seem like something else might compound things. But who knows with these writers. 

I've always maintained that he will be alluded to having visited the kid. But it doesn't really matter. Just bc they're writing them well now doesn't mean they won't have the exact same thing that happened in the erased timeline happen again. The writers are not consistent from episode to episode, and they have no problem screwing up characterization for plot. That is just how they are.

 

Plus, yeah, cumulative effect. No matter how well she handles each event, at some point it's just too many events.

[nksarmi]

Coming straight off of what seems like some drama with her own father who abandoned her, it could be a compound of keeping the kid a secret, and leaving him without a father once he found out about it, which she'd probably have a difficult time accepting, even if he did explain why. But I do agree with you that after what we've seen of these two, it does seem like something else might compound things. But who knows with these writers. 

 

If they made it about Felicity being uncomfortable about him abandoning his son - and they'd have to let Emily play that up - I could sort of stomach it.  But no, I cannot accept that just that lie (if he hasn't seen the kid since then) leads to the break-up.  I have been frustrated with Oliver, thought he was an idiot, and wanted to smack him on numerous occasions - but the speech he gave her at the end about the world they live in and there has to hope she can walk again?  It would be hard to dump a man full of that much love even if he didn't immediately tell her about a son he didn't know he had until two months ago and who he only saw once.  I just don't buy it.

 

Plus since she was shot because Darkh went after Oliver (not Green Arrow) not letting anyone know about the kid actually makes sense right now.  And Felicity of all people would understand that.

 

Nope.  He HAS to do something more. Something I will probably want to smack him for - again.

[Coop33]

Dang, I'm worried about Tatsu now too, but would they really bring her back just to kill her? She has no immediate connection to current story lines, so that would seem pretty cruel. It would have been weird to never hear from Waller again, so I get why they needed to kill her (even if I don't have to like it), but that doesn't really apply to Katana.