Spoiler Discussion Thread

[way2interested]

Rather than an all-or-nothing scenario when it come to Oliver's kid, whether he decides to become a part of William's life or whether William doesn't end up being his, I picture a different outcome. I wonder if Baby Mama even wants Oliver in William's life? It seems clear that she's a loving mother, and I doubt she would just welcome Oliver in her and her child's lives with open arms. I think that she would allow him to meet William but ultimately ask Oliver to please stay away from them, for William's sake. Then, after some form of dramatic meeting scene between Oliver and William, Oliver decides that this chance for a family that he missed out on is definitely what he wants in life, hence proposing to Felicity in the next episode. 

[apinknightmare]

Rather than an all-or-nothing scenario when it come to Oliver's kid, whether he decides to become a part of William's life or whether William doesn't end up being his, I picture a different outcome. I wonder if Baby Mama even wants Oliver in William's life? It seems clear that she's a loving mother, and I doubt she would just welcome Oliver in her and her child's lives with open arms. I think that she would allow him to meet William but ultimately ask Oliver to please stay away from them, for William's sake. Then, after some form of dramatic meeting scene between Oliver and William, Oliver decides that this chance for a family that he missed out on is definitely what he wants in life, hence proposing to Felicity in the next episode. 

 

If Oliver confronts her about it, then it seems like he wants to be a part of the kid's life. If the mother doesn't want that, then I'd wonder why Oliver doesn't fight for it anyway, since he would have the right to do that. 

[AyChihuahua]

Yeah, legally he'd have rights to see the kid.  It'd be a big huge pain in the ass if the mother doesn't acknowledge he's the father/lied on the birth certificate, but Oliver would eventually win some kind of visitation.  And Oliver is just not the kind of guy who could have a kid out there in the world and have nothing to do with him.  So the best middle-ground scenario is that the mother cooperates, they keep the stupid kid secret, so he's not constantly under threat of kidnap, and Oliver just visits him every so often, OFF CAMERA.

 

This is ALL SO STUPID and unnecessary.  WHY WHY are they doing this storyline in an already incredibly overstuffed season/crossover, when there's not even any canonical reason to do it.  If he can't be Connor, just have him not be Oliver's.  

Edited November 27, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Sakura12]

I choose to call them Stargage Flashbacks. 

 

I haven't seen enough of the Hawkgirl actress to really form an opinion. I can tell she's a theater actress so I'll give her some time to get used to the transition. She can sing though.

 

I don't care about the baby mama drama and if they introduce more babies onto this show, I'm out. 

Edited November 27, 2015 by Sakura12

[foreverevolving]

BTW lol'ed at Barry asking Oliver if he's not cold in his new suit and Oliver getting all growly.

 

@ChangeTheGodDamnSuit2016

Edited November 27, 2015 by foreverevolving

[way2interested]

I just honestly can't see them extending this plot too long beyond this crossover episode. So far, season four's been striding through plots that could ordinarily, and in some cases probably should have, take up significant air time (Dig and Oliver's fight, Sara's resurrection, Ray's return) to get through establishment for LoT and for the rest of the season to get to 4b. His kid might be part of 4b, but with sparing knowledge of some of the plot points coming up (Diggle and Andy flashbacks, some hospital scenes, Roy, Felicity's father, along with the continuing battles against DD and Thea's blood-lust), I don't see him actually coming up in conversation much.

 

To me, it also seems like the writers never seemed too enthusiastic about bringing this kid plot back in the first place. The scene even back in season two was more about Moira than the actual dilemma of having a secret child, and the scene in last year's crossover seemed like an easter egg at best. This upcoming scene in 408 might just be another instance of putting off the plot for another time, but I'd love to see how they would get out of this one, seeing as they seem to have a lot more exciting plots to get back to for the second half of the season.

[calliope1975]

I'm not turned off by the baby mama drama, I accepted that when the location spoiler first appeared. I think my biggest issue with 408 will be the Mummy flashbacks. They just look so cheesy but hey at least I can have some fun mocking the flashbacks.

 

Those flashbacks look cheesy as hell. I already have issues with Hollywood and Egypt (looking at you Exodus and Gods of Egypt) so my mockery meter is already turned up to 9.5. I know - "comics" - but still. I hope this crossover is better than it sounds. 

[bijoux]

At least they get to re-use their Lazarus Pit chamber set?

[quarks]

The Mummy flashbacks look WONDERFULLY TERRIBLE AND I CAN'T WAIT.

[AyChihuahua]

The Mummy flashbacks look WONDERFULLY TERRIBLE AND I CAN'T WAIT.

Drunk?

[Password]

Wow that mummy flashback looks HORRIBAD. At least now we probably won't have any boring island flashbacks. Silverlining to everything.

The only thing I look forward to now is the baby mama storyline.

[BkWurm1]

what could possibly go wrong? Answer - everything. Not only did he keep a secret from her for way too long, he allowed it to take over everything. Their wedding had to be postponed, he didn't want Lorelai to interact with April too much because he wanted April to bond with him alone first and basically put his relationship with Lorelai on the back burner. It was strange and disheartening and really freaking depressing to watch a couple that I'd wanted to get together so long, fall apart because of such a stupid reason

 

They spread the stupid between both Luke and Lorelai pretty evenly.  She put off the wedding for like five - six months herself because she was estranged from Rory but refused to give Luke more than a few months to sort out his issues with surprise kid.  She finds out in January almost immediately after Luke decided he did want to be in April's life and by the end of April she's given up which made no sense to me since at that point they had solved Luke concern that he wouldn't be able to bond with April on his own and moved into problems with the Baby Mama causing trouble and Luke afraid he'd loose access to April if he didn't jump when Baby Mama said jump.  So then we have Lorelai depressed and brooding and talking to random therapists in bathrooms who  give pat answers without knowing all the facts (but not saying a word to Luke) which convinces her to toss out an ultimatum and even though she knows that Luke always, always needs time to process, immediately sabotages her relationship so when of course nearly the next day when Luke has gotten his head on straight, there's no going back.    

 

Why drag up ancient but painful history?  Well because I'm still extremely pissed but the context of my comment is that to mess up Oliver and Felicity's relationship BOTH of them would have to act OOC and stupid and yeah, last year proved Arrow understands that formula but this season has proved to me that they know NOBODY likes when both of them act OOC and stupid.  I just can't see TPTB doing that.  I think Arrow is going to raise the threat of Baby Drama being a problem and then do a swerve that shouts to the audience "Look at us, look at us!  We don't do manufactured relationship angst this year!" 

 

Doesn't stop them from tweaking the drama every where else but they have impressed me with the actual romantic relationship.   

Edited November 27, 2015 by BkWurm1

[statsgirl]

If Oliver confronts her about it, then it seems like he wants to be a part of the kid's life. If the mother doesn't want that, then I'd wonder why Oliver doesn't fight for it anyway, since he would have the right to do that. 

This would be the place for the "Because of the life I lead" speech.

 

They're fighting DD and Dr. Zoom and  Vandal Savage.  Babymama points out that Oliver's life is dangerous now that he's running for mayor in Star City and he's the target of bad guys. William is happy and she wants to keep him safe.  Oliver reluctantly agrees, knowing it's even more dangerous than she thinks it is, and says that he's there for the kid if he ever needs him.

 

Then he gets sad at what he's lost and decides he's going to propose to Felicity in case there isn't a chance later.

Edited November 27, 2015 by statsgirl

[BkWurm1]

Then he gets sad at what he's lost and decides he's going to propose to Felicity in case there isn't a chance later.

 

As long as somewhere in there we have Felicity finding out about Billyboy, I'm good with that. 

[AyChihuahua]

You guys have way more faith that the writers have learned their lesson than I do.  I have literally no faith in them.  Anything they don't screw up shocks the crap out of me.  For example, they couldn't have made worse choices for Sara's resurrection: from the overall idea (having Laurel do it), to every little detail (having her not tell anyone Sara is loose and KILLING PEOPLE), every time they made story/writing choices they did it poorly.  I get that Laurel may be a particularly bad subject for them, but they screwed up absolutely everything in S3, and are still screwing up plenty of things in S4.  (Just not, SO FAR, O/F.)

They're fighting DD and Dr. Zoom and Cyrus Vance.

Cyrus Vance?  The mob guy from S1?  He's coming back?

Edited November 27, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[statsgirl]

Sorry, I meant Vandal Savage. That the LoT guy;s name, right?

 

At this point, I get confused about the names.

[bijoux]

I may be overconfident but I'm convinced that all the fretting about the kid and how Oliver and Felicity deal with him and the mom is going to end up like 'Felicity throwing Dig under the bus' last week. A mountain out of a molehill.

[BkWurm1]

I may be overconfident but I'm convinced that all the fretting about the kid and how Oliver and Felicity deal with him and the mom is going to end up like 'Felicity throwing Dig under the bus' last week. A mountain out of a molehill.

Yes, yes. Much more productive use of our time is to fret over what the show will do to Felicity in 4-9. Or 4-10. Or 4-12 and 4-13. Or around 4-20. Honestly, fretting over next week is just good practice for the rest of the season. #justkiddingnotkidding

[AyChihuahua]

I may be overconfident but I'm convinced that all the fretting about the kid and how Oliver and Felicity deal with him and the mom is going to end up like 'Felicity throwing Dig under the bus' last week. A mountain out of a molehill.

How, though?  I mean, he has a kid out there.  That is a huge deal.  I would love for the kid not to be his, but it doesn't look like that's the case.  Even if Oliver decides to stay away for safety reasons for now, there's still a kid timebomb out there just waiting to explode.  (I also would find that OOC for both Oliver and Felicity.)

[Chaser]

The kid lives in another City. Unless Baby Mama dies, I can't see Oliver trying to take custody or even apply for joint custody. The kid is a pre-teen, it would cruel for Oliver to spring a new living arrangement on him.  

 

I can see Oliver meeting his kid and then making arrangements to talk on the regular or see him on weekends. All the show has to do is mention a phone call every once in awhile. Maybe had the kid pop in for an episode on Oliver's weekend.

 

I think the kid is going to serve as more a catalyst for a story line for both Oliver and Felicity this season. A way to bring up the topic of kids before her father comes town. Possibly to borrow from comics and have Felicity go through an accident that takes away her ability to have children.

 

I'm trying to remember what I read about comic lore, but wasn't Dinah restored by the LP at some point. I know it got her the Cry back but did it also allow her to have children again? Also, I read that The Calculator healed his daughter from a virus. I wonder if we will see a similar type story line with Felicity, where he heals her from something.

Edited November 27, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[bijoux]

How, though?  I mean, he has a kid out there.  That is a huge deal.  I would love for the kid not to be his, but it doesn't look like that's the case.  Even if Oliver decides to stay away for safety reasons for now, there's still a kid timebomb out there just waiting to explode.  (I also would find that OOC for both Oliver and Felicity.)

I honestly still think chances are good it isn't his kid at all. But if it is, I don't see it as having a negative effect on Oliver and Felicity as a couple. For one, I am firmly on the side that there is no way he will keep this secret from her. Over the past two episodes we had him going to Dig when Felicity was freaking out, and going to Felicity to talk over DD's offer. This is not a man who keeps things bottled up anymore. And since I'm working from this viewpoint, I believe Felicity knows of the kid when she accepts Oliver's proposal. Implying that she's OK with that fact. From where I'm sitting, there's no reason she wouldn't be. The fling predates them by not only years but a lifetime of experiences. Would she have passed up on Oliver if this came to be known before they got together, say in last year's crossover? I really don't think so.

[kismet]

I'll start hitting the maydey button if OQ lies about the kid or keeps it from FS for greater than half the crossover or 1 full Arrow episode. That can be the only wedge I see coming between O&F directly r/t the kid. Other than that I see it as a catalyst for their relationship. Do we want kids (now, ever, later)? I'm hoping & guessing mutually later. Do we want to get engaged?

The kid being on CC and part of xover to me is a good sign because it means the writers don't really care or want it on Arrow. Everything they shuttle over to Flash/xover is stuff they don't want to deal with until they have to. Just look at FS s3 the only POV we got on her feelings towards OQ prior to 320 was in xover. Because it was inconvenient and counterproductive to their storytelling for them to givd her any other voice on the show. Even though it was absolutely frustrating for the audience.

It's a perfect example of throw a crumb out there to calm the masses and then move on to the story they want to tell this season. They've dropped crumbs for 2 seasons on this kid, so now they are clearing up the crumbs they left. I doubt those crumbs will wind up anywhere but plot trash. If they had wanted a loaf they would have done more sooner.

As for the other infertility & pregnancy issues that the show may pull from comic canon or soap opera lockbox, I think those would have come with or without this surprise kid. I actually think having the surprise kid provides some insulation from the drama they could have unfolded.

Edited November 27, 2015 by kismet

[apinknightmare]

The kid being on CC and part of xover to me is a good sign because it means the writers don't really care or want it on Arrow. Everything they shuttle over to Flash/xover is stuff they don't want to deal with until they have to. 

 

The CC part of the crossover is Arrow. The Flash gang travels to Star City during their hour.

Edited November 27, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Chaser]

The only way I can see Felicity acting unwelcoming to his kid, is if they also have her unable to have children due to whatever happens in 4x09. That would be quite the gut punch. You find out the man you love has a child and you accept that but than you get hurt and lose the ability to have children with your future husband. That would be so hard to process. I wouldn't be surprised if she struggles with that, if it were to happen.

 

Which is a huge IF in my opinion. It's so incredibly cruel. I hope they far away from making Felicity infertile.

[kismet]

The CC part of the crossover is Arrow. The Flash gang travels to Star City during their hour.

What I meant is it's all part of the xover event. It's not just an Arrow episode. It's a special episode that is part of the season but also a separate episode onto itself. It's kinda like a holiday dinner it counts, but most people don't count it towards their diet plans if they are dieting. It's a cheat day. The xover episodse have those same special exception rules to them.

[kismet]

The only way I can see Felicity acting unwelcoming to his kid, is if they also have her unable to have children due to whatever happens in 4x09. That would be quite the gut punch. You find out the man you love has a child and you accept that but than you get hurt and lose the ability to have children with your future husband. That would be so hard to process. I wouldn't be surprised if she struggles with that, if it were to happen.

Which is a huge IF in my opinion. It's so incredibly cruel. I hope they far away from making Felicity infertile.

I can't even see it then. And certainly not lasting longer then an episode or 2 while she is still in shock and grieving her loss of fertility. FS would see the kid as an opportunity for OQ to have a child, and maybe she would resent the babymama but never the kid.

But I also hope that the writers are not even considering infertility as an actual plot. There are so many other ways they can keep kids off Arrow. They write a sad show, but even I have greater faith in them than writing an infertility plot for a 25y old. That would be misery porn and even in the dark days of s3, they never sunk to the depths of misery porn IMO. Ragey Stupidity, Yes. Misery Porn, No.

Edited November 27, 2015 by kismet

[AyChihuahua]

I honestly still think chances are good it isn't his kid at all. But if it is, I don't see it as having a negative effect on Oliver and Felicity as a couple. For one, I am firmly on the side that there is no way he will keep this secret from her. Over the past two episodes we had him going to Dig when Felicity was freaking out, and going to Felicity to talk over DD's offer. This is not a man who keeps things bottled up anymore. And since I'm working from this viewpoint, I believe Felicity knows of the kid when she accepts Oliver's proposal. Implying that she's OK with that fact. From where I'm sitting, there's no reason she wouldn't be. The fling predates them by not only years but a lifetime of experiences. Would she have passed up on Oliver if this came to be known before they got together, say in last year's crossover? I really don't think so.

Oh, okay.  My concerns aren't really Olicity-related.  I like them together but that's not a main reason to watch the show for me.  I'm unhappy about having a kid on the show and having angst around the kid, period.  Even if O/F come through it and are happier together and all that...we'll still have a stupid kid hanging around.  On an adult superhero show.  That is what I'm primarily worried about, that and having to watch it, regardless of the outcome.

[apinknightmare]

The only way I can see Felicity acting unwelcoming to his kid, is if they also have her unable to have children due to whatever happens in 4x09. That would be quite the gut punch. You find out the man you love has a child and you accept that but than you get hurt and lose the ability to have children with your future husband. That would be so hard to process. I wouldn't be surprised if she struggles with that, if it were to happen.

 

Which is a huge IF in my opinion. It's so incredibly cruel. I hope they far away from making Felicity infertile.

 

 

*If* Felicity actually is paralyzed post-4x09, then they could easily make her question whether she wants kids while dealing with her disability. That would be a way of having her struggle with it, but not be completely off the table. 

 

 

What I meant is it's all part of the xover event. It's not just an Arrow episode. It's a special episode that is part of the season but also a separate episode onto itself. It's kinda like a holiday dinner it counts, but most people don't count it towards their diet plans if they are dieting. It's a cheat day. The xover episodse have those same special exception rules to them.

 

 

Sorry, I disagree. It's one thing if the kid winds up not being Oliver's, but if he is Oliver's, then it's not a cheat episode. I mean, it's supposed to kick off a whole arc for Oliver and Felicity. It counts.

[looptab]

What I meant is it's all part of the xover event. It's not just an Arrow episode. It's a special episode that is part of the season but also a separate episode onto itself. It's kinda like a holiday dinner it counts, but most people don't count it towards their diet plans if they are dieting. It's a cheat day. The xover episodse have those same special exception rules to them.

 

Well. that might have been true to a certain extent as far as last year crossovers went, when they were still sort of "introducing the crews". Still, Dig proposed in the crossover. A step towards the investigation about Sara's murder was made. Laurel got her Canary Cry in another. I wouldn't say what happens in the crossover stays in the crossover, and especially not this year, that they are even interconnected.

 

-Edit Because I can't quote properly.

Edited November 27, 2015 by looptab

[bijoux]

Oh, okay.  My concerns aren't really Olicity-related.  I like them together but that's not a main reason to watch the show for me.  I'm unhappy about having a kid on the show and having angst around the kid, period.  Even if O/F come through it and are happier together and all that...we'll still have a stupid kid hanging around.  On an adult superhero show.  That is what I'm primarily worried about, that and having to watch it, regardless of the outcome.

Fair enough. Although I don't see the kid really being part of the show, maybe just a casual mention and then he's trotted out when someone wants to threaten Oliver. Which is actually my beef with the storline if he turns up to be Oliver's. He's not going to be used as part of the narrative at all. Why even introduce him then at all?

[kismet]

Sorry, I disagree. It's one thing if the kid winds up not being Oliver's, but if he is Oliver's, then it's not a cheat episode. I mean, it's supposed to kick off a whole arc for Oliver and Felicity. It counts.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I didn't mean a cheat episode like it doesn't matter - just that it's not that important in the grand arc of s4. I just don't see this kid as an important part of the story. It is an important catalyst, but not an important plot. I see this kid as nothing more than to have a mini-drama for xover purposes, catalyst for O/F relationship and then a kid for future spin-off/continuation of the show when SA leaves. The show will probably forget about him by end of s4 even if he is a Queen. I don't see this kid as new character that is going to become a permanent or important part of the show at this point. We'll probably get a lot of out of show mentions.

[apinknightmare]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I didn't mean a cheat episode like it doesn't matter - just that it's not that important in the grand arc of s4. I just don't see this kid as an important part of the story. It is an important catalyst, but not an important plot. I see this kid as nothing more than to have a mini-drama for xover purposes, catalyst for O/F relationship and then a kid for future spin-off/continuation of the show when SA leaves. The show will probably forget about him by end of s4 even if he is a Queen. I don't see this kid as new character that is going to become a permanent or important part of the show at this point. We'll probably get a lot of out of show mentions.

 

I don't think the kid is going to become a major character or that we'll see him all that much, but what your post implied (and I now understand was not what you meant) was that this was a throwaway storyline that didn't matter because it was being brought up during a crossover. 

[looptab]

Flashbacks related spoilers must be a new kind of trolling from the EPs. 

[kismet]

So I guess in that new spoiler that was released that tattoo will be the key to undo whatever they need to, so they can solve the darkness problem of s4. We know he didn't use the tattoo enough in fb that it disappeared ~ which makes me think it will be used for DD. Bingo crisis of s4 finale solved with a little ink.

[apinknightmare]

"The mysticism that Reiter is practicing may or may not sync up with what Damien Darhk is doing," Mericle adds. 

 

C'mon, lady! 

Edited November 27, 2015 by apinknightmare

[wonderwall]

C'mon, lady! 

 

Of course it will sync up :p Otherwise why bring it up at all lol

S1: Oliver saves the city from Malcolm

S2: Oliver saves the city from Slade

S3: Oliver saves the city from Ra's

S4: Oliver's tattoo saves the city from Damien

 

lollll

[AyChihuahua]

What fun coming up.  Blood, pain, drowning, secret kids, kidnappings, paralysis, miscarriage, infertility, abandoning fathers, amnesia.  

 

If I had known about all this misery I would never have started watching.  I signed up for a nice little realistic superhero origin story, with a hot dude and some fun supporting characters.  Hopefully the actual show doesn't go nearly as grimdark as, especially, Twitter is.  People are actually BEGGING to see blood from Felicity, like see DD beat her to death, or presumably nearly to death, since they're Olicity fans.  

[kismet]

Well. that might have been true to a certain extent as far as last year crossovers went, when they were still sort of "introducing the crews". Still, Dig proposed in the crossover. A step towards the investigation about Sara's murder was made. Laurel got her Canary Cry in another. I wouldn't say what happens in the crossover stays in the crossover, and especially not this year, that they are even interconnected.

 

-Edit Because I can't quote properly.

I don't think what stays in the xover stays in the xover - I just think its storylines that the writers don't really care about or prioritize as important. It's weird because the examples you mentioned should be important - but they aren't really. The proposal and the canary cry were big character points, but they weren't & still remain very tangential to the Arrow story. Even the step in the investigation didn't even matter that much as it didn't really matter who killed SL in the end. That whole mystery was kind of a stall to get to the meat of LoA story which was Ra's interesting obsession with OQ.

[way2interested]

 

What fun coming up.  Blood, pain, drowning, secret kids, kidnappings, paralysis, miscarriage, infertility, abandoning fathers, amnesia.

 

To be fair, none of these things have actually been confirmed, even some people here are doubting the kid's parentage. Arrow tends to take rather tame routes when it comes to grimdark plots, so whatever actually happens in 409 will probably be relatively tame to what people on twitter think or hope. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

Thank God I'm not following THOSE people on Twitter. My TL wants Felicity in danger; I want Felicity in danger, but no we don't want her brutalized. I want the drama that comes from the reaction of having been hurt, seeing your loved one hurt, etc. That's why I'm kinda hoping for car crash, then kidnapped and episode 9 ends with Oliver screaming Felicity's name. Then 4x10 opens with Oliver, Digg, Thea rushing to the hospital after a few weeks after hearing from Lance that Felicity was found. OR, 4x10 opens with Felicity in a battle of wits with her captor before she manages to escape. 

[bijoux]

What fun coming up.  Blood, pain, drowning, secret kids, kidnappings, paralysis, miscarriage, infertility, abandoning fathers, amnesia.  

  

To be fair, none of these things have actually been confirmed, even some people here are doubting the kid's parentage. Arrow tends to take rather tame routes when it comes to grimdark plots, so whatever actually happens in 409 will probably be relatively tame to what people on twitter think or hope.

I'm with way2interested on this. The speculation gets very dark at times and is then taken for granted. I'm willing to bet here and now that 50% of that list doesn't happen. Could it be that people are just tired of waiting for Oliver to kick ass again? I know I am. I don't want Felicity hurt, but I do want him mowing through six baddies without stopping to draw breath.

[AyChihuahua]

I was fine with the danger she was in in 1-3, other than the times she wasn't in on the plan.  Fine with her being bait for the Dollmaker, fine with her being in a car crash and knocked unconscious.  Fine with her being bait for Slade (although I'll never understand, in-show, why he didn't tell her ahead of time...but she did consent by going along with it).  I'm not fine with what people on Twittter seem to want.  They want her beaten to death(-ish), they want her raped, they want her really explicitly drowned by DD violently holding her underwater, preferably in slo-mo, they want her to miscarry, etc.  Basically any of that would make me quit watching.  And if it's just to make Oliver badass again, well, that is on the writers and stunt-people...there was no good reason they de-badassed him.  And just putting her in danger would be plenty to re-badass him if that's necessary for some reason.

 

I'd be fine with an engineered crash into the bay, with Oliver pulling her out and giving her CPR while music plays and it fades to black.  (Bc I'm not a bit worried they'll kill her.)  I'd be fine with her being kidnapped, as long as we didn't have to watch them be separated for a long time, or her tortured/raped/brainwashed. 

 

Separate question, because this has been bugging me for awhile...why would a wheelchair for a newly-paralyzed person not have handles on the back?  If I were paralyzed I'd want to make it easy for people to help me by pushing the chair.

[kismet]

To be fair, none of these things have actually been confirmed, even some people here are doubting the kid's parentage. Arrow tends to take rather tame routes when it comes to grimdark plots, so whatever actually happens in 409 will probably be relatively tame to what people on twitter think or hope. 

I tend to agree. I think the fanbase is far more elaborate and intense than the writers ever are. Even here we tend to think big and out of the box, but in the end the show does generally take the simplest & often least emotional way out especially when it goes "dark".

[apinknightmare]

Separate question, because this has been bugging me for awhile...why would a wheelchair for a newly-paralyzed person not have handles on the back?  If I were paralyzed I'd want to make it easy for people to help me by pushing the chair.

 

I imagine it's mostly to do with preference. If someone were to have full use of their upper body, and need to move around/turn around a lot, they'd want a lower-backed chair to give them freedom of movement. Some people might not want to be pushed or be helped - could be an independence thing. 

Edited November 27, 2015 by apinknightmare

[bijoux]

I was fine with the danger she was in in 1-3, other than the times she wasn't in on the plan.  Fine with her being bait for the Dollmaker, fine with her being in a car crash and knocked unconscious.  Fine with her being bait for Slade (although I'll never understand, in-show, why he didn't tell her ahead of time...but she did consent by going along with it).  I'm not fine with what people on Twittter seem to want.  They want her beaten to death(-ish), they want her raped, they want her really explicitly drowned by DD violently holding her underwater, preferably in slo-mo, they want her to miscarry, etc.  Basically any of that would make me quit watching.  And if it's just to make Oliver badass again, well, that is on the writers and stunt-people...there was no good reason they de-badassed him.  And just putting her in danger would be plenty to re-badass him if that's necessary for some reason.

 

I'd be fine with an engineered crash into the bay, with Oliver pulling her out and giving her CPR while music plays and it fades to black.  (Bc I'm not a bit worried they'll kill her.)  I'd be fine with her being kidnapped, as long as we didn't have to watch them be separated for a long time, or her tortured/raped/brainwashed. 

 

Yeesh! You need to purge your Twitter feed. Honestly, the things you state you would be okay with are in keeping with the show itself and the one about the bay and CPR is the one I think will happen. Although personally I'd prefer a kidnapping since Felicity would play an active role in getting free, much like she did when Cooper kidnapped her and Donna.

[AyChihuahua]

I tend to agree. I think the fanbase is far more elaborate and intense than the writers ever are. Even here we tend to think big and out of the box, but in the end the show does generally take the simplest & often least emotional way out especially when it goes "dark".

As far as I'm concerned, thank god for that, bc the fanbase would pretty much write a superhero's origin story as a darker version of Hostel if they could.

[dtissagirl]

It's not like the peoples on the Twitters can tell the EPs now what they wanna see on episodes that were broken, written, and shot awhile ago.

 

Also, seriously. Fandom is actually one of the very few stances in life wherein you can completely ignore everything and everyone you disagree with. Live in the bubble, embrace the bubble.

[Chaser]

Be your bubble.

[AyChihuahua]

I imagine it's mostly to do with preference. If someone were to have full use of their upper body, and need to move around/turn around a lot, they'd want a lower-backed chair to give them freedom of movement. Some people might not want to be pushed or be helped - could be an independence thing. 

That definitely makes sense for longer-term paralysis, but this seemingly has to be soon after the injury (assuming an injury, assuming some kind of paralysis, probably temporary), but for early days I'd think pretty much anyone would need help, until they'd gotten used to it and built up the appropriate muscles.

 

Medical people?

Be your bubble.

I'm not following people who wish for that kind of thing, it just comes up in other people's conversations and so shows up in my timelines.  Plus some users I quite like will just pop up with something every so often.  It'll go from funny meme to gif to "I can't wait to see blood streaming down Felicity's face while DD beats her nearly to death and Oliver is forced to watch!"

[apinknightmare]

That definitely makes sense for longer-term paralysis, but this seemingly has to be soon after the injury (assuming an injury, assuming some kind of paralysis, probably temporary), but for early days I'd think pretty much anyone would need help, until they'd gotten used to it and built up the appropriate muscles.

 

Medical people?

 

I'm interested if someone has an answer, too, because I looked and couldn't find any actual medical reasons for it, other than preference. Maybe 4x10 picks up right after 4x09, and then between 4x10 and 4x11 we get back to real time, so it's not still so early on in the injury (show-wise, I mean)?

Edited November 27, 2015 by apinknightmare