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Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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kismet

kismet

I mean, I knew this was happening this season at some point (even though I wished it wasn't) but why are they wasting time in the crossover to bring back the Baby Mama and kid? Seems like there's too much other stuff they need to be introducing. The timing of this is weird. Should have left this until s5.

I feel like they are bringing it in this season because of the Mayoral campaign. I also think they are putting it in the crossover episode so the child can stay in CC. I believe the writers love the thought of OQ having a secret child, but I don't think they want to actually write the nitty gritty of a child in the OQ story in SC. As others have mentioned, the secret child can unnecessarily burden a show. Its a new dawn & a new day on ARROW, I don't think they want to burden themselves with a rando ex-hookup & child. It is just part of the crossover world of characters they are creating so that they can have organic reasons for crossovers in the future that don't necessarily always revolve around baddies or tailoring suits. I have no personal interest in a secret child plotline. But I do see its utility for 1. it furthered sinking O/L in its toxic waste-dump. 2. It creates organic tension between O/F. 3. Its crossover material for future eps. Lastly, 4. its lays the foundation of a new generation so they can have a fall back for if they want to rejuvenate or take the show in another direction (if & when SA decides to leave).

 

Also, I think Sandra or whatever her name is is despicable.  I think she was despicable to take the money and lie in the first place, but I think she was truly despicable not to tell him when he returned.  Despicable.  Yes, Ollie was a douchecanoe, and yes Oliver was an unknown, but she didn't have to send the child to live with Oliver or anything.  Just let Oliver know he has a child and let the child know who his father is.

I have no problem that she took the money and ran. I think that was the smart decision for her & her child. I do think its despicable that she didn't reach out years later to let him know. Especially after the threat of MQ was dead & gone (RIP MQ). I feel like she won't even tell him now. I think its going to be discovered during the mayoral campaign either by his staff during "opposition research" or used against him by his opponent.

 

That's kind of what happened on Nikita (the CW version). Nikita wasn't ready/didn't want kids, Michael couldn't abandon his son once he found out about him. She broke up with him so he would have the chance to figure things out for himself. Hmm. That reveal also happened half a season after they got together.

It's been awhile since I saw that season of Nikita. But I don't remember them actually breaking up. Michael stayed behind in Europe to spend more time with him and protect them. It's neither here nor there. But I really don't see that happening on ARROW, since they can't really have OQ spend time away from SC. However, it could possibly happen over the winter break. I could see FS telling OQ to spend time in SC while she focuses on PT. It wouldn't be a break-up, but it could be some time apart. The perk of it would be that their time apart would be offscreen, which is similar to how it felt on Nikita. I actually like how the handed the surprise son on Nikita, I HATED the storyline, butit was handled well enough that it didn't piss me off.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

I can't see this kid having much effect on the current Oliver/Felicity relationship but I can see Oliver, all domestic and nesting this season, suddenly wanting to have a baby now.

 

Hopefully he'll remember what a threat DD is before he can push Felicity too much into it.

 

I understand why babymama took the money because when you're that young and have no resources, it's pretty much a poverty sentence for the kid. I agree that when Moira died, she should have told Oliver. On the other hand, I can understand why she wouldn't -- he had money and power and if he wanted to take the kid away from her, she might have lost custody and been separated from the most important person in her life.  She also didn't know that Oliver had changed and the old Ollie is someone most mothers would want to keep away from any say over their children.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

I have no problem that she took the money and ran. I think that was the smart decision for her & her child. I do think its despicable that she didn't reach out years later to let him know. Especially after the threat of MQ was dead & gone (RIP MQ). I feel like she won't even tell him now. I think its going to be discovered during the mayoral campaign either by his staff during "opposition research" or used against him by his opponent.

 

 

 

I think it would have been the right thing to do to reach out to Oliver at least after she bumped into him at the coffee shop but I don't find her despicable, even if she's never the one that tells Oliver about his son.  She didn't extort the money, she was threatened.  And seven years is a long time.  All the terrible complications she'd have to worry about in telling him.  That's not something to be considered lightly. 

 

When Oliver returned from the dead, he was in the media as the same old Ollie Queen.  Even him being CEO couldn't have inspired much confidence and once he lost the company and Moira was murdered, the timing of "Surprise!  You have a kid!"  might have been too much. 

 

 

After bumping into him at the coffee shop, I would hope that she started to think about telling him, but the fear of all the what ifs would be huge. 

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

(edited)
When did MG say this?

 

Here ya go

 

The character, played by Elysia Rotaru, is a former love of Oliver’s and will appear in flashbacks, Entertainment Weekly reports. Luckily for Olicity fans, that will likely be where she stays. Speaking to Zap2it in a group interview, executive producer Mark Guggenheim says, “Truth be told, we really wanted to have Oliver have a flashback love interest to contrast it with the present day love interest of Felicity.”

 

He adds, “The truth is, had Oliver and Felicity not gotten together in the present, I don’t know if we would have thought to give Oliver a love interest in the past.”

 

http://zap2it.com/2015/08/arrow-season-4-olicity-flashback-love-interest-elysia-rotaru/

Edited by Primal Slayer
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lemotomato

lemotomato

Mark Guggenheim says, “Truth be told, we really wanted to have Oliver have a flashback love interest to contrast it with the present day love interest of Felicity.”

He adds, “The truth is, had Oliver and Felicity not gotten together in the present, I don’t know if we would have thought to give Oliver a love interest in the past.”

Sorry, but I still don't see that as an example of re-writing O/L in the past as much as it is expanding what we know of what happened to Oliver in his missing 5 years. The "new" love interest has everything to do with contrasting his current relationship with Felicity and nothing to do with O/L. As apinknightmare pointed out, Oliver already had a love interest in the past (two, if we count his time with Sara on the island), so if was ever a ret-con of Oliver's devotion to Laurel, it happened in late season 1/2x01. 

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

(edited)

Lemme quote myself

 

 

I see it as them changing the past to accommodate what they want to do with the future/present. Especially when MG basically admited to it for s4.

 

Which is what I see them doing here. This new love interest is only being introduce to accommodate what they are doing in the present. Giving him multiple love interests (not just women he has sex with) in the past just makes everything they tried to sell in Season 1 even dumber. Now of course they could use this to swing back to past Oliver gaining feelings or whatever for Laurel again to tie with the beginning of S1 but I don't see them doing that.

Edited by Primal Slayer
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Lemme quote myself

Which is what I see them doing here. This new love interest is only being introduce to accommodate what they are doing in the present. Giving him multiple love interests (not just women he has sex with) in the past just makes everything they tried to sell in Season 1 even dumber. Now of course they could use this to swing back to past Oliver gaining feelings or whatever for Laurel again to tie with the beginning of S1 but I don't see them doing that.

Them adding a love interest this season regardless of what it's for isn't retconning anything. Oliver already had a love interest in the past-very recently after he washed up on Lian Yu. Years ago they established that Oliver was up for a relationship with someone else, even while "pining" for Laurel. This doesn't change that one bit.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

What does it matter though? Honest question. Bringing in a new love interest in the past this season isn't rewriting anything between Oliver and Laurel because he already had a love interest in the past before this one. He was allegedly pining for Laurel in the past but was perfectly willing to get with Shado. How does having a relationship with another person years later change anything?

He didn't love Laurel enough to abstain from a relationship with Shado, and he doesn't love her enough to abstain from a relationship with this chick. There's no difference between the two.

Edited by apinknightmare
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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

I'm just sitting here wondering why any of this even matters...

 

...I mean none of us want them to get together again (at least that's what I gathered from what we've all said) in present so why does it matter what they do to their relationship in the past? It's not going to change how icy they are in the present. 


What does it matter though? Honest question. Bringing in a new love interest in the past this season isn't rewriting anything between Oliver and Laurel because he already had a love interest in the past before this one. He was allegedly pining for Laurel in the past but was perfectly willing to get with Shado. How does having a relationship with another person years later change anything?

 

TWINSIES :p Maybe the difference is the Olicity of it all? Because right now that's the only difference I see between Shado/new character. 

Edited by wonderwall
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

I personally will allow the photo being a retcon.  That he was so focused on it even when he first came back, and now in the past seems to have lost it and doesn't care.  

 

I am curious, though...surely they would not have had five years of celibate past Oliver if they'd stuck with Laurel, right?  I mean she wasn't celibate over those years, and he had Helena and McKenna when he got back (although that was after he realized he maybe wasn't going to get her back right away).  

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Chaser

Chaser

(edited)

I'm hung up on DR's tease about Felicity's father And MG's Tumblr responses regarding the subject matter. They really seemed like they were setting something up. Now it's all .... nope. 

 

I'm trying to tell myself they are keeping Felicity's Dad under wraps and everything is misdirection.  I'm probably setting myself up for massive disappointment. 

 

Sometimes I like it's because the DD is Felicity's Dad starting floating around and they wanted to stop that talk. Either because it's true or it's so wrong they don't want people spreading it around.

 

To another family matter, MG denied they were bringing in Oliver's in S4. I think MG specifically said Arrow S4. That's lawyering if they introduce the kid in Flash/LOT. That would also mean the kid may stay over there. I'm trying not to get too worked up over the kid yet. 

Edited by 10Eleven12
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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

Did he deny they were bringing in Oliver's kid? Or did he deny they were bringing in Connor? I don't remember.

Shhhhhh don't anger @starfish35 :p

Lol I'm going to ignore that. ;)

Edited by Starfish35
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Chaser

Chaser

(edited)

I may mixing his answers up. But I thought for sure he denied the storyline...

 

Sigh. I don't want Oliver's offspring. I want Felicity's Dad. At this point, I would take DD.

Edited by 10Eleven12
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Sunshine

Sunshine

(edited)

He denied the child would be Connor. He pointed out that Connor was bi-racial and clearly his mother was white. I wondered if this was DC not allowing or because they had received backlash regarding the white-washing of characters.

Edited by Sunshine
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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

He denied the child would be Connor. He pointed out that Connor was bi-racial and clearly his mother was white. I wondered if this was DC not allowing or because they had received backlash regarding the white-washing of characters.

I fully believe it was because they got backlash for white-washing. They should've just recast the role.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

SA's publicly-stated opinion of storylines means nothing to me, because he was publicly cheerleading all the ridiculously stupid LOA crap all last season.

 

I guess I'm basically neutral on this storyline as long as it doesn't lead to manufactured drama or a child regular on Arrow.

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Guest

Guest

Sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

I need people to stop speaking for the fandom. 

 

 

Ugh, same. How embarrassing. 

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Starfish35

Starfish35

I want Felicity's Dad. At this point, I would take DD.

Yeah, I'm disappointed that it looks like the Felicity's dad storyline is getting pushed off. At first I thought it was just a bluff, but now I'm starting to think maybe it's the truth. But I still don't want it to be DD. Really really don't want another evil dad storyline. Malcolm was bad enough.

I don't mind Oliver's kid showing up, personally. With the theme of this season being family, I expected Oliver's child to make an appearance at some point. It's really going to depend on how it's handled. As others have said, the child's mom is still alive (for now) so it's not like Oliver and Felicity are going to be faced with raising a child all of a sudden, or that we would be dealing with a child in the show on a regular basis. I would question Felicity getting upset at him about it though - they weren't together then, and he didn't even know about the child until now (whenever "now" is).

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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

I have a lot of feelings about Felicity's SL regarding her father...

 

  • I'm fine with it because I don't want them to force it into the plot
  • On the other hand THEY'VE BEEN TEASING IT FOR SO LONG
  • S4 is about Family, it's the perfect season for it
  • Felicity DESERVES this SL for HERSELF. We need to see her character be more fleshed out
  • At least they're spreading out her arcs and not doing it all at once like they did w/ LL? 
  • I don't need the show to focus on irrelevant Lance family drama (Sara's resurrection, I'm sure will cause LOTS of drama -_- again) when they can focus on a character that's gotten the short end of the stick for 3 seasons in a row
  • It was LL/TQs season last season because apparently they were good team players and deserved arcs of their own... Where the heck is Felicity's? surely FS has been a team player longer than the others... -_-
  • I WANT IT
Edited by wonderwall
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Chaser

Chaser

The only reason I could see Felicity being upset about the kid is if Oliver keeps him a secret. If Oliver decides it's best not to be a father for the child, I could see Felicity having conflicting feelings because of her own daddy issues. They have to play it carefully and with as little melodrama as possible. 

 

I honestly felt they were teasing her father so it really annoys me what they are saying now.

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Guest

Guest

(edited)

Yeah, I'll be disappointed if we don't get Felicity's father storyline, even more so after it being teased. I'm sick of her being used to prop other characters and given nothing for herself. Okay, so far it looks like the CEO thing is about her but even then she's stuck with Curtis - another soon-to-be-costumed hero. Where's the storyline where we learn about Felicity? Naw, son. 

Edited by Guest
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tarotx

tarotx

(edited)

Felicity helping heroes find themselves seem a part of her journey. Even her father night end up being more about the father so you never know what's going to happen. 

 

As for as Connor I found this on Marc's tumblr from July.

helmetedrogue asked:
you said on here before that the connor hawke storyline won't be explored, but stephen said in an interview that there's a good chance oliver will find out about his kid. did you mean that the kid isn't connor, or that the story with "oliver's son," whoever he is, won't be explored regardless?

In the comics, Connor Hawk is mixed-race.  The girl that Oliver got pregnant in Ep. 220 is white.

http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/post/124807786149/you-said-on-here-before-that-the-connor-hawke

Edited by tarotx
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calliope1975

calliope1975

I take full responsibility for being a crazy reactionist, but that's why I discuss it here and not address it to the star of the freakin' show! 

 

I hope they did hear the backlash to the kid being Conner and not biracial. Other than Dig, are there any other POC regulars? Rutina Wesley is just recurring, right? Do better Show!

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Guest

Guest

Hmm. A few possibilities then. They're either not writing Connor at all and creating their own new kid character. The kid is maybe not Oliver's at all and the girl miscarried and these spoiler pics are all one big misdirect. Or Oliver hasn't met Sandra Hawke in flashbacks yet and that's still to come? 

 

 

Felicity helping heroes find themselves seem a part of her journey.

 

 

Which I'm cool with to an extent but the trouble is it ends up being more about them than her.

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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

So here is my kid theory: because of the campaign Felicity does some digging at the request of Oliver in order to make sure they are properly covered and no big bad secret will raise its nasty head.. which is when Felicity stumbles upon the information about the Sandra and the kid. (there may have been a fic with a similar plotline).

Anyway, I don't mind the kid.. it's a canonial part of Arrow's Oliver.. also bringing the kid will also satisfy the comic fans, and maybe (just maybe) please them enough so they will stop with the Oliver/Laurel craziness!

 

I don't see Oliver lying to Felicity.. if there is anyone he would tell first about the kid it will be her. I dare hope they will not have Felicity ask for a "break" so he can get to know his son, but I have a feeling that Stephen himself would throw a fit! (and I mean a serious one) if they would dare do that.

 

Honestly after sara's murder and Buckles being the result of it.. there can be no worse story line on this show.. with the exception of breaking up Oliver/Felicity for Laurel/Oliver (and I may have just thrown up in my mouth a little bit at that thought) - and I can already imagine Stephen going on strike if that were to happen.. seriously I can!

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wonderwall

wonderwall

I take full responsibility for being a crazy reactionist, but that's why I discuss it here and not address it to the star of the freakin' show! 

 

I hope they did hear the backlash to the kid being Conner and not biracial. Other than Dig, are there any other POC regulars? Rutina Wesley is just recurring, right? Do better Show!

 

They didn't learn from what they did to Summer Glau's character

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Belinea

Belinea

In my opinion children never do any storyline good. Yes, they might cause drama for a while but at the end you have a kid in your story and people have to take care of it. Will Oliver then take his kid out with him to the lair and once he is done take him to basketball? Children in my opinion should pop up at the end of a show's run. At least that way they will not have to be there for the next 3 seasons. I mean I love kids just not as a trope on tv. It ruined Gilmore Girls for me and Angel. I am not excited for a kid storyline on Arrow. 

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kismet

kismet

(edited)

Does this really belong in the Spoiler thread? Seems most of this conversation is about past relationships not spoiler/spec.

I think a lot of it winds up in here because we are talking about the future FB LI which is a spoiler. I was almost going to post something in the relationship thread before I realized a whole paragraph would have to exist under a spoiler tag. 

 

And, then I just decided what my post said was not that important. It was repetitive to a post I made a few months ago when the FB LI was revealed. Which the basic point was that O/F relationship in the present gives them the liberty to pursure whatever story they want in the FB. Whereas a O/L relationship would restrict them on what stories they could tell in fb that would not undermine both their previous and their hypothetical relationship in the present if that was main relationship of the show, which it is not.  

Edited by kismet
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Soulfire

Soulfire

(edited)

Here are some things MG said about Connor Hawke and Baby Mama. In the first reply, since the person sending the question spelled it with an "e", many believed that gave MG leeway to reply the way he did. Or the kid might not be called Connor at all. Same goes for Sandra, who might end up going with another name.

 

tumblr_nvule4CjCg1qazmsxo1_540.jpg

http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/post/122313306329/will-the-show-ever-address-conner-hawke

 

He also said --

 

tumblr_nvulhr12OB1qazmsxo1_540.jpg

http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/post/124807786149/you-said-on-here-before-that-the-connor-hawke

 

And --

 

tumblr_nvulkzbEwL1qazmsxo1_540.jpg

http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/post/120501971204/is-there-any-chance-of-that-sandra-and-connor

Edited by Soulfire
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

We can't have Connor Hawke because he's a mixed race character and the mother in S2 was white but we can have Robert Queen (another mixed race character)?  That doesn't make sense, if they shied away from making this kid Connor Hawke because of white washing (and I do think that was the original intention) than making the kid Robert Queen isn't viable either.

 

They should just make the kid an original character since Arrow has original components anyway. Why make the kid anyone from the Comics at this point?

Edited by Morrigan2575
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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

My irritation about the kid has settled down, and now I would say that I still feel excited about 4A; less excited about 4B, if that's how it starts. On the plus side for 4B, though, is that we should be done with setting up LoT by that point? I hope? So maybe I'll end up liking 4B better in the end.

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lemotomato

lemotomato

Chances that Quentin is gonna blame Oliver for DD terrorizing the city? Even though Oliver wasn't even there? Anyone?

Didn't we see him do exactly that in the trailer? When he told Oliver that his vigilantism attracted the bad crazies in masks to the city?
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Didn't we see him do exactly that in the trailer? When he told Oliver that his vigilantism attracted the bad crazies in masks to the city?

 

Yeah, but I wasn't sure if that was a direct quote related to DD or just a general statement of hatred.

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Guest
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