Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Morrigan2575]

Oh yeah that's right, no flashbacks other than Oliver until 408.  So not Andy/Diggle unless it's about Diggle going after HIVE because of Andy.  

[tarotx]

The no Non Oliver Flashback was said before they wrote episode 7 so perhaps it changed? I just know I rather a Diggle Flashback than An Andy Diggle in present day. 

[kismet]

From the article I just posted in spoilers only:

 

 

 

If she's the ultimate Olicity supporter then she clearly doesn't have a bad relationship with Oliver, so I wonder if Oliver and Donna have already been in contact over the summer or something? 

 

I'm kind of looking forward to their interactions now. 

Oh... I saw that part of the interview and it makes me scared & excited all at the same time. When it comes to how MG interprets what DS is going to be like, for me right now its at that point of the roller-coaster where you're about to drop into the huge twisting free fall. You hope its going to be amazing, but you're still scared a little to your core.... MG sometimes has poor insight into audience response and DS is too much of a wild card in the wrong writers' hands.

 

I'm keeping my fingers-crossed and hoping for all the good scenarios I have running in my head. Trust my I have a lot of awkward and bad ones running. So here's to the good ones. Totally looking forward to it though. :)

[Ann Mack]

I think, this pink dress...

 

 

 

 

THank you!

[HighHopes]

Could be Bratva in flashbacks but building to Diggle/Andy in present day. Not that we'd see Andy in present day, just we're approaching finding out why he was killed.

I think we might be seeing Andy in the present day at some point. That or there will be more Andy flashbacks soon. 

 

[kismet]

I feel like the Brotherhood episode is going to somehow parallel Dig/Andy relationship with OQ/Dig. It feels like good timing for OQ/Dig to officially repair their relationship. So my thoughts are that regardless of who is in the flashbacks, the whole point of this episode is going to be that importance & complexities of brotherhood. I hope it's going to be a very bromance heavy episode, because I desperately need one of those, as does OQ/Dig I think.

 

Brotherhood and Bratva generally go together, but I believe its too early and the TPTB have kept the cards too close to the chest this off-season to figure out how Bratva will all play out in s4. But Bratva could make a cameo in this episode. It has made cameos around this episode # in the previous 3 seasons.

[Morrigan2575]

I think we might be seeing Andy in the present day at some point. That or there will be more Andy flashbacks soon.

 

The actor was flying yesterday, we don't know where but some suspect he might have been flying to Vancouver for 407 which starts filming today

 

https://twitter.com/Vududaddy/status/645744628080074752

[Sakura12]

Would they really do another "Surprise, I'm not Dead"?

 

Who am I kidding, of course these writers would. That and dying for motivation are the only two tricks in their wheelhouse. 

[Morrigan2575]

He could be alive or it could be a flashback and MG got confused.  He's made mistakes on episode numbers before

[Angel12d]

I think we might be seeing Andy in the present day at some point. That or there will be more Andy flashbacks soon. 

 

 

I agree. Maybe the Andy flashbacks won't happen until later? In those tweets DR could just mean an episode at a later date maybe. 

 

Whatever happens I'm just glad Diggle is getting some focus finally. PRAISE.

[Velocity23]

Seems like the actor playing The Baron is flying back to Vancouver also!

https://twitter.com/JimmyAkingbola/status/646040596445065217

[apinknightmare]

http://tvline.com/gallery/fall-tv-predictions-greys-anatomy-meredith-romance/#!1/arrow/

 

 

 

ARROW
PREDICTION: The next batch of flashbacks, featuring Elysia Rotaru as a woman whose relationship with Oliver in the past mirrors Felicity's now – will reveal that Oliver almost walked down the aisle once before.

 

Bleh, no thanks. But then again, he did leave Hong Kong because he thought he needed to be alone, so it would make sense in this show if he wound up getting to the point where he'd get married. 

 

But still. No. Because that means this past LI really is marked for death, AND WE DON'T NEED DEATH AS A MOTIVATOR FOR YET ANOTHER THING.

[kismet]

So regarding the TVline prediction I just posted in the spoiler thread.

 

I do think that perhaps the author was taking the parallels between the two relationships a little too literally. But I could see them use the FB relationship as something he had no choice in and FS as someone he is choosing to be with. Perhaps he does get engaged in the past but its for all the wrong reasons (forced engagement, part of alias, etc. or even to just protect her (but that one would be good)), while in the present he is choosing to be engaged for all the right reasons because he loves FS and wants her in his life. Wasn't there a rumor that OQ had a forced marriage as part of the Bratva subplot, or was that just a fanfic thing that caught a lot of popularity?

 

IDK, frankly I don't think proposals will be paralleled, but it could happen. The writers love their parallels. My prediction/interpretation of this FB relationship is that it brings out all the bad things in OQ throwing him further into the darkness because the girl is bad and FS bringing out all the good parts of OQ in present and maintaining him in the light. But either way I don't see good things happening to the FB girlfriend by the end of s4.

[AyChihuahua]

He's already done a fake marriage, to Nyssa.  Been there, done that.  I think it'd be stupid.  (But, you know, this show ain't against stupid, so maybe.)

 

I'd rather she be flat-out bad and not dead.  Tired of dead women on this show, and I don't think we've had any truly bad women, have we?  Isabel, but she was a pretty minor character overall.

Edited September 21, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Primal Slayer]

I still need them to bring in Sportsmaster/Chesire/Artemis to parallel with Oliver/Thea and bring back Roy.

[kismet]

He's already done a fake marriage, to Nyssa.  Been there, done that.  I think it'd be stupid.  (But, you know, this show ain't against stupid, so maybe.)

 

I'd rather she be flat-out bad and not dead.  Tired of dead women on this show, and I don't think we've had any truly bad women, have we?  Isabel, but she was a pretty minor character overall.

Oh I'm with you on not wanting a fake engagement. I was just analyzing the prediction. I only want one OQ engagement this season & that is an authentic one to FS.

 

As for FB girl, I don't really care if she is alive or dead. I don't really want her presumed dead and then come back to life. If they do that for anyone it should be Andy & only Andy. And like others have mentioned on this board, that card is getting a little old and played out.

 

If she is alive though, it might be annoying that OQ knew this threat was out there and didn't do anything about it. So her being alive is not my first choice. My first choice would be that she is bad and she dies as a result of her badness. It is still motivation by death for OQ, but it could also be a warning about giving into the darkness.

 

Basically, I just want a truly bad woman and I want her to be involved with OQ. I want him to give into the darkness just a little in the FB, sorry I do want DarthOliver in FB. I don't want him going too far into the darkness, but I do want this relationship to take him there because she is dark.

[Hipkarma]

Mention of Isabel now got me wondering what it was she really hated Felicity for... argh.

 

As for the FB relationship I hope its more than just another nail in the coffin of the Twue Wuv kept OQ going for 5 years in Hell. It would be far more interesting had the character a juicy backstory establishing them as a manipulator par excellence and OQ being a mark.  How prevalent is the theory that she's going to be involved in ShadowSpire?

[kismet]

Isabel was such a wasted opportunity. They had an amazing actress & some pretty good subplots if they wanted. Instead they took the easy (but still eeky) way out by making him Eskimo Brothers with his father and a simple car crash. Such a shame.

[AyChihuahua]

If he only goes a little bad, we can't call him Darth Oliver.  Anakin killed a bunch of baby Jedis, and Darth Vader blew up an entire planet.  I never bought Vader's redemption.  Oliver will go a little darker, but he's not going to be involved in sex-trafficking or murdering babies or blowing up planets or anything like that.  Guggie was really insistent that S3 LOA Oliver would be "wading in blood" by the end of the season, and he killed like two bad guys.  (Also, I know some people consider his FB torturing people to be really bad, but as far as I'm concerned he can torture/kill bad guys all day long.)

 

I want her to be bad and alive.  There could be lots of reasons he didn't go after her, including just having plenty of other things to do and not considering her a primary target.  I'm on board with her manipulating him, and I personally would love it if his protective/controlling tendencies got him in trouble, like he protected her from a mob hit or something and it turns out he should have let her die bc she's evil.  I don't necessarily see a huge parallel there with Felicity, BUT Guggie has said they're not so much paralleling past/present this year, that they just want the past story to be good enough to stand on its own.  (And there would be the general mirror image idea of going bad with a woman leading the way in the past while going good with a woman leading the way in the present.)

 

Oh, and I stick by my theory that Amanda's going to have him go undercover in Shadowspire.  If Bratva is this season, maybe Shadowspire will have him go undercover with Bratva.

 

In terms of her being bad and dying and that being a warning for Oliver, seriously, the dude has had like 50 cautionary tales of people in his position going bad.  Malcolm was a lot like him, willing to do anything for his goal.  Bad.  Slade was a lot like him, brother-in-arms, even.  Bad.  RAG is who he would become if he gave up his humanity.  Bad.  Maseo was who he would become if he gave up his humanity or family or whatever that was.  Bad.  I mean yes, Oliver is dumb as dry toast now, but does he really need YET ANOTHER cautionary tale that being bad is not good?

Edited September 21, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[kismet]

If he only goes a little bad, we can't call him Darth Oliver.  Anakin killed a bunch of baby Jedis, and Darth Vader blew up an entire planet.  I never bought Vader's redemption.  Oliver will go a little darker, but he's not going to be involved in sex-trafficking or murdering babies or blowing up planets or anything like that.  Guggie was really insistent that S3 LOA Oliver would be "wading in blood" by the end of the season, and he killed like two bad guys.  (Also, I know some people consider his FB torturing people to be really bad, but as far as I'm concerned he can torture/kill bad guys all day long.)

 

I want her to be bad and alive.  There could be lots of reasons he didn't go after her, including just having plenty of other things to do and not considering her a primary target.  I'm on board with her manipulating him, and I personally would love it if his protective/controlling tendencies got him in trouble, like he protected her from a mob hit or something and it turns out he should have let her die bc she's evil.  I don't necessarily see a huge parallel there with Felicity, BUT Guggie has said they're not so much paralleling past/present this year, that they just want the past story to be good enough to stand on its own.  (And there would be the general mirror image idea of going bad with a woman leading the way in the past while going good with a woman leading the way in the present.)

 

Oh, and I stick by my theory that Amanda's going to have him go undercover in Shadowspire.  If Bratva is this season, maybe Shadowspire will have him go undercover with Bratva.

 

In terms of her being bad and dying and that being a warning for Oliver, seriously, the dude has had like 50 cautionary tales of people in his position going bad.  Malcolm was a lot like him, willing to do anything for his goal.  Bad.  Slade was a lot like him, brother-in-arms, even.  Bad.  RAG is who he would become if he gave up his humanity.  Bad.  Maseo was who he would become if he gave up his humanity or family or whatever that was.  Bad.  I mean yes, Oliver is dumb as dry toast now, but does he really need YET ANOTHER cautionary tale that being bad is not good?

Ok, we can come up with another nickname... any suggestions?

 

I meant as a warning for giving into the darkness FB OQ, not present day. Slade was a combo present & FB cautionary tale. All the other cautionary tales have been post-island. Yes, he really doesn't need anymore - but you know these writers, always good for a cautionary tale & a resurrected from the dead loved one.

 

Honestly, like I said I don't care whether she is alive or dead. I just want her bad & I want her manipulating or influencing him to be darker. I like some of the ways you suggested she could still be alive.

[bijoux]

What if Oliver killed his FB love interest?

[AyChihuahua]

Maybe just Dark!Oliver? 

 

If she was a cautionary tale not to give into the darkness in the past, wouldn't that mean it was another cautionary tale that didn't stick, bc he was all into darkness in present day S1?  (Although again, he really wasn't THAT bad, he only killed bad guys and their henchmen.)

 

I want her alive simply because I'm really tired of women being murdered to motivate the hero on this show.  Plus, if she's alive she could try to manipulate him present-day, too.  And yeah, I definitely want her to be bad.  Oliver can be really weird about women, he tends to put them up on pedestals big time, so it could be interesting to see him like that with an actually evil woman (v. gray, like Moira).

 

What if Oliver killed his FB love interest?

 

He's never killed a woman on the show, right?  I guess if she's evil, it would, for me, depend on how it played out.  I couldn't watch him beat her to death.  I hated the scene in which Laurel gets beaten up.  Maybe if she turned out to be a badass and it was staged more like Oliver's fights with China White?   

Edited September 21, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[kismet]

What if Oliver killed his FB love interest?

I was thinking the same thing, but didn't want to have to make her dead. But, I think this is a strong possibility. If she is evil, and he i forced to make that choice. That could fit right into his guilt spirals.

[kismet]

Maybe just Dark!Oliver? 

 

If she was a cautionary tale not to give into the darkness in the past, wouldn't that mean it was another cautionary tale that didn't stick, bc he was all into darkness in present day S1?  (Although again, he really wasn't THAT bad, he only killed bad guys and their henchmen.)  

That name works for me.

 

NO because I don't see him as dark in the present day. Even in s1, the people that were killed were collateral damage. He wasn't out there killing innocents or targeting innocents. There was a body count, but it was not like he was intentionally killing or torturing just to kill or torture. By the time he returned from the island, he was fulfilling his father's mission, perhaps with not as much caution or consideration but he wasn't dark or evil. He brooded, and he definitely did not live in the light. But it was not darkness, just a gritty grey reality.

Edited September 21, 2015 by kismet

[bijoux]

He's never killed a woman on the show, right?  I guess if she's evil, it would, for me, depend on how it played out.  I couldn't watch him beat her to death.  I hated the scene in which Laurel gets beaten up.  Maybe if she turned out to be a badass and it was staged more like Oliver's fights with China White?

Him beating her to death never crossed my mind. I just expect her to be bad since it is supposed to contrasted his relationship with Felicity in some ways. So I'm thinking about fighting for his life, it's him or her. And if I can accpet that he's killed bad guys, I can accept him killing a bad woman. I can't actually remember him killing one before.

If she is evil, and he i forced to make that choice. That could fit right into his guilt spirals.

This is exactly what I was thinking. It fits into his progression and changes the narrative from him feeling guilty about failing to protect women.

[kismet]

As long as WM is running ARROW, I do not think we will see unnecessary violence against women, from what was discussed in that article a few weeks ago. I think that means no beatings. Fair marital arts fighting, with real physical consequences, yes. But no beatings of women just for dramatic purposes. I think they will avoid the beatings, especially by a major character (darkOliver or not). I don't want to see anyone beaten to death regardless of gender.

 

If OQ does have to kill her I think it will be a gun shot or arrow. I'm guessing gun shot, and that is why he prefers not to use guns. Cue her bleeding out while he tragically cries over her body, killing was a choice he never wanted to make but had to in order to save others. Tragic & dark, perfect for darkOliver it further propels his guilt & informs some of why he came back the way he did. We'll except the whole LL love thing, but I feel like TPTB are going out of their way to make us forget he ever was in love (or so they say) with LL for the 5 yrs he was away.

[Angel12d]

It's just TV Line's own prediction so they're really just guessing as much as we do, but I honestly don't think Oliver will think of getting married in flashbacks. He's meant to be on his darkest path. Arranged marriage is always plausible, especially if it's Bratva, but even then I'll be surprised if they go down that road. Besides, we've already done the marriage thing with Nyssa. Let's not go there again please and thank.

[AyChihuahua]

Maybe she'll be the one to show up and wreck Oliver's and Felicity's first attempt at getting married. Pretty classic trope: "If anyone knows why these two should not be wed, speak now or forever hold your peace." Then crazy Mrs. Rochester shows up.

[Sakura12]

Or they could always go with the oops I married someone else while drunk years ago trope (a legal marriage not like his one to Nyssa) that Castle did. Or the disappearing during the wedding also like Castle did. Or really any stupid thing that Castle did to keep their couple from getting married. 

[Angel12d]

I wouldn't be surprised if they actually use his 'marriage' to Nyssa as some kind of excuse at some point, or a point of contention between them. I know they said it's not legal or whatever but I can totally see them backtracking on that somehow.

[AyChihuahua]

Oh yeah, I've been figuring Nyssa would show up at their wedding, probably because of some plan of Malcolm's. But maybe it could be this woman instead. Bones did it with Angela and Hodgins. It's incredibly annoying, but I don't think Arrow is strong enough to resist the easy trope.

[tarotx]

I just don't see Oliver hiding allowing his friends and family to continue thinking him dead while he's in a happy relationship on the verge of marriage. I get it while he's lost in self hate right now but if he's ready to marry? I'd find it very hard to believe for the man Ollie became the last few seasons. 

[kismet]

Or they could always go with the oops I married someone else while drunk years ago trope (a legal marriage not like his one to Nyssa) that Castle did. Or the disappearing during the wedding also like Castle did. Or really any stupid thing that Castle did to keep their couple from getting married.

Please nothing that Castle did. All of that stuff they pulled nearly made me quit the show! I don't want that for Arrow. Please they can self-sabotage their own show without gaining inspiration from Castle. Castle should be a cautionary tale.

[kismet]

I figured out another cautionary tale that FB love interest will probably be involved in & one that stuck. I think she will be the start of OQ's trust issues. Whether she is alive or dead. Whether they get engaged or are forced to marry or just have tons of sex/seductive stares & quick edits. Somewhere in the FB she will betray OQ and that will be why when he returns he is so headstrong about doing stuff on his own, or at least slow to trust people. And even when he does trust people, he is slow to reveal the whole truth or parts of the plan. It would explain why he keeps so much to himself for so many years. FS will be the onion peeler and FB LI will be the one who helped build up all his layers.

[BkWurm1]

"You deserve it. You're Al Sa Heim."

I watched twice before I caught what she said. So creepy.

Wish they could have fit in the two scenes with EBR and JB. Also loved Goth Felicity clutching her stuffed panda for comfort. Of course she had a panda. :D

Baby actress Sara continues to be adorable.

Edited September 22, 2015 by BkWurm1

[Angel12d]

They really shouldn't have cut those Malcolm/Felicity/Thea scenes. It adds layers to everything, especially with what we know is going to happen this season with Thea experiencing problems from the pit and Sara being resurrected. (Also kind of confirms to me that they didn't plan on bringing back Sara at all tbh.)

 

 

-deleted scene with Laurel her mom and Lance and her mom wants to tell Lance about Sara being dead but Laurel stops her

 

Um, no offense but I'm glad they cut that because that just makes things even worse and keeping it a secret was bad enough. Wow.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Angel12d

[bijoux]

They really shouldn't have cut those Malcolm/Felicity/Thea scenes. It adds layers to everything, especially with what we know is going to happen this season with Thea experiencing problems from the pit and Sara being resurrected.

 

That's really the only one that I think could have benefited the episode in question if it was kept. The other not really. And cutting Laurel's scene was a really, really good choice since "I know you're mad at Oliver for lying to you about Sara" would have been an even harder pill to swallow.

 

I'm really looking forward to seeing Oliver talking about Tommy. Frankly, I'm sort of hoping they wrap with season 5 since closing in on the present day timeline would mean no more annual Tommy popping up in the flashbacks. Like, I'm really chomping at the bits here to see what he'll look like this year (or well, 2010) after the douchy aesthetic when he was turning 25.

[Morrigan2575]

For one brief moment I actually felt something (other than hatred) for MM in that LP scene.  

 

I really liked the Felicity Flashback scene, shame they cut it.

 

@Velocity - You're links don't seem to work

[Angel12d]

"You deserve it. You're Al Sa Heim."

I watched twice before I caught what she said. So creepy.

 

That could be why Oliver was all "MY NAME IS OLIVER QUEEN!" when he was on the plane. He really didn't like being called Al Sah-him, not by Ra's al Ghul and definitely not by Felicity. 

Edited September 22, 2015 by Angel12d

[lemotomato]

 

"Game changing scenes are fun."

I can't think of other reasons for them to be in suits aside from a wedding or a funeral. Guesses, anyone?

[apinknightmare]

Looks more funeral than wedding to me.

I hope not though, because more death? Yuck.

Edited September 22, 2015 by apinknightmare

[tarotx]

I think we will need to know what show it's from first. LOT is about to be set up so all the players need to be in place. What and when it happens to Ronnie could play a factor here.  I think the Flash is a week a head of Arrow shooting so are they already shooting the Cross over or did they skip over it until next week?

[Morrigan2575]

That was my question.  Are they shooting Flash 207 or 208?  Is this part of The Flash or The Arrow?  Hell are they both on LoT episode 3?  :D

[statsgirl]

It's too late for Eddie's funeral.  But if they're both in dark suits, it's not like to be a wedding or a business meeting.  Maybe a dedication.

 

I don't think they could shoot the cross-over while Arrow was shooting another episode. The logistics would be too nightmare-ish.

 

Usually I think about deleted scenes "yeah, nice but I can see why they dropped it".  But I wish they hadn't dropped Oliver's dream scene because it makes it even more poignant when we find out that he was expecting to die on that plane, and Felicity's flashback with Cooper's room mate telling her to stop crying and be awesome makes her various transformations (to buttoned-down blonde, to Team Arrow, to amazing hacker, to CEO) even better.

 

And Barrowman is so good that I can feel sympathy for him. But I'm glad they cut the scene because Felicity was being rather a bitch to him.  Understandably, but still too much.

 

I can see why they dropped the Donna/Felicity/Sara scene, it doesn't add anything.  And I'm glad they dropped the scene of Laurel arguing with her mom not to tell Quentin because it would only emphasize that it was Laurel's responsibility that he wasn't told and make him look worse when he took it out on all Team Arrow later.

[Velocity23]

Could be a FB for LOT. Rays memorial before he is brought back?

[apinknightmare]

I wouldn't consider a memorial "game changing." I wonder if someone dies, and Rip Hunter shows up with the person at their funeral or something to establish time travel on Arrow for LoT.

[Velocity23]

Well i guess its important for the intro for the spinoff to get going.

[wonderwall]

Lol Felicity was a bitch to Malcolm? Poor guy. Sucks that everything she said was entirely true.

I felt no sympathy for him because everything that was happening to Thea WAS because he loves himself first and foremost and would put his daughter in harms way in order to be exonerated.

I loved that scene with Malcolm and Felicity. Because she doesn't put up with his bullshit. He made a choice and Felicity is going to remind him of that over and over again because that's the least she can do. To make him feel bad about his actions.

[Kymmi]

Could be a FB for LOT. Rays memorial before he is brought back?

 

I don't know why Barry would attend that, though.  I think a wedding is too obvious, but I think that's the reaction SA is looking for.  Which is kind of ironic, considering he already said if it was up to him no footage for the upcoming season would ever get out.  But since it's Facebook, ok then.  LOL

[Angel12d]

Game changing scenes? No idea. But it does look like a funeral to me.

 

 

Lol Felicity was a bitch to Malcolm? Poor guy. Sucks that everything she said was entirely true.

I felt no sympathy for him because everything that was happening to Thea WAS because he loves himself first and foremost and would put his daughter in harms way in order to be exonerated.

I loved that scene with Malcolm and Felicity. Because she doesn't put up with his bullshit. He made a choice and Felicity is going to remind him of that over and over again because that's the least she can do. To make him feel bad about his actions.

 

 

THIS. Malcolm deserves everything he gets, including Felicity calling him out on his shit. I have zero sympathy for him. In fact, he deserves more.