Spoiler Discussion Thread

[wonderwall]

I'm still pretty hyped about the season. I really enjoyed the trailer. The only thing that made me go "OH HELL NO!" was a tweet today from DragonCon of what is supposedly a KC quote (I actually trust the person who tweeted this; she might have a different take on what they mean but the actual quotes from her have been spot on so far): "I got to come into my own as a female lead, which is nice like now Stephen doesn't have to work as much."

Well, to be honest, not a lot of what KC has said in the past has really stuck. And her saying that Stephen doens't have to work as much doesn't mean he won't be working as much. It's probably just wishful thinking on her part. 

[AyChihuahua]

I definitely think there's going to be a LOT more KC as Black Canary. The trailer shows her actually picking up a full-grown man and slamming him down on a table. She's going to be in basically all the fight scenes now.

I'm glad SA got scheduled time for working out and, I think, a trainer paid for by the show. If he uses some of his time off to keep up his athletic abilities and physique, I'll be somewhat okay with a little less Oliver onscreen (although I too would rather the extra time go to someone other than LL). His physique is a big part of the character so it seems fair to me that he not be expected to use only his own time to keep it up.

[tarotx]

I'm hoping that DD might just cast a glamour to make Oliver question who he's aiming the Arrow yet? I wouldn't be surprised if Oliver "Kills" QL at the end of episode 1. Though not really. And it's QL DD glamour's into because DD has to have touched the person. And DD's not worried about getting an Arrow because he has the LP waters or something else that keeps him kicking. Comic DD is immortal.

[Chaser]

I'm still pretty hyped about the season. I really enjoyed the trailer. The only thing that made me go "OH HELL NO!" was a tweet today from DragonCon of what is supposedly a KC quote (I actually trust the person who tweeted this; she might have a different take on what they mean but the actual quotes from her have been spot on so far): "I got to come into my own as a female lead, which is nice like now Stephen doesn't have to work as much."

 

I fully understand that Stephen wants to do other stuff and probably has the leverage now to ask for a little bit more time off, but I would really, really prefer that any extra time be given to either Felicity or Diggle. Maybe even Thea. But please merciful God, not Laurel :P I'm desperately clinging to SDCC quotes from Wendy and Marc (I know, I know, that's foolhardy). I really don't think Laurel is going to get any more extra focus or time, though. This show knows people aren't here for Laurel's story, which is why there were lots of strong moments for Felicity and Diggle (yes, even when he was sidelined in the action he had meaty dramatic stuff) during her BC arc.

That was one of the quotes I wanted clarification on from the panel. Was she talking about S3 and having a BC arc that killed off Oliver for a bit? Or was talking about the upcoming season? 

 

At the end of the day, KC doesn't write the show. Billing doesn't give you screen time unless you are the Lead, so I don't know if it's her assumption or something that is actually happening. 

[apinknightmare]

I got the impression that she was talking about the little mini hiatus Stephen took last year when Oliver "died." He doesn't seem to have missed much (if any) time this year, so I don't think she was referring to that.

Edited September 7, 2015 by apinknightmare

[tarotx]

I personally wouldn't be surprised if the show does a little mini Birds of a prey with BC, Thea and Felicity doing the "A" arch and Oliver having the "B" arch. Maybe he's stuck in Election issues and the girls have to investigate and crime fight.

Edited September 8, 2015 by tarotx

[Chaser]

I do have to laugh that both SA and KC assume if it's a heavy Laurel episode, then it's a lite Oliver one.

[lemotomato]

I definitely think there's going to be a LOT more KC as Black Canary. The trailer shows her actually picking up a full-grown man and slamming him down on a table. She's going to be in basically all the fight scenes now.

If BTS photos are anything to judge by, I agree. KC has posted a lot of masked selfies. 

[dtissagirl]

That's actually my dream scenario, tbh: that from now on, most of KC's screen time is spent as BC in action scenes. The less civilian Laurel, the better for my viewing pleasure.

[statsgirl]

 The only thing that made me go "OH HELL NO!" was a tweet today from DragonCon of what is supposedly a KC quote (I actually trust the person who tweeted this; she might have a different take on what they mean but the actual quotes from her have been spot on so far): "I got to come into my own as a female lead, which is nice like now Stephen doesn't have to work as much."

It's nice to know that something that hasn't changed for this season is KC's opinion of the importance of her character.  If SA had to keep working as hard when Sara and Slade were on, and with Diggle and Roy fighting alongside him for two seasons, what makes KC think that he can take off because Laurel can fight now?  

 

And she is still pushing that she's the female lead.  I think a bit more modesty (referring to Thea also being a vigilante now) would be appealing.

 

 

I personally wouldn't be surprised if the show doesn't do a little mini Birds of a prey with BC, Thea and Felicity doing an A arch and Oliver having the B arch. Maybe he's stuck in Election issues and the girls have to investigate and crime fight.

I wouldn't be surprised if they tried that out to see if Birds of Prey is a possibility for a mini-series or even an arc during Arrow.  IIRC, when they tried it in s2 with Helena, Laurel and Sara, it didn't go over so well but maybe that's because Laurel wasn't the Black Canary yet  [/sarcasm], and the episodes in s3 with Oliver not in Starling City (but still on the show) weren't that great ratings-wise either so it would make sense to try it out in a small way during the regular season.  

[Chaser]

I personally wouldn't be surprised if the show doesn't do a little mini Birds of a prey with BC, Thea and Felicity doing an A arch and Oliver having the B arch. Maybe he's stuck in Election issues and the girls have to investigate and crime fight.

Sounds about right. 

 

If BTS photos are anything to judge by, I agree. KC has posted a lot of masked selfies. 

I've determined that could be a good thing. The shrowrunners have talked about exploring Oliver's civilian life, as well as Felicity and Diggle. If all her screen time is in the mask, then she isn't interacting much with the three.

[Sunshine]

Sounds about right. 

 

I've determined that could be a good thing. The shrowrunners have talked about exploring Oliver's civilian life, as well as Felicity and Diggle. If all her screen time is in the mask, then she isn't interacting much with the three.

It will be interesting to see if their civilian lives intersect much.  I know O/F is the romantic relationship and O/D have to work out their issues but if Oliver's civilian life revolves around running for office for all of S4, Thea and Laurel (as lawyer) might be more heavily involved than the LI or friend.  Felicity seems to be spending most of her time with Curtis and from DragonCon it sounds like there is quite a bit of Diggle/Quentin.  The groundwork for Felicity's father doesn't necessarily even need Oliver.  Diggle's hunt for HIVE doesn't have to involve him either.  Is it possible it's towards the latter half of the Season that they realize it all ties back to Damien Darhk and start working together?  It seems like since they were hired the masks were always going to be Oliver/Laurel/Thea.  MG said they haven't deviated too much from the original plan IIRC.  This makes me think that the ultimate Team Arrow was/is supposed to be Green Arrow & Black Canary w/Speedy as sidekick.  Felicity & Diggle will have roles but only masks can be "Super".  Diggle is getting "identity concealment" not a mask.  They have been pretty firm on that point.

[AyChihuahua]

IRL an ADA would not be allowed to express, publicly, an opinion on mayoral candidates, especially one that differs from the elected DA's opinion. (Most DAs are elected, except in New Jersey where, weirdly (IMO) the governor appoints them.) ADAs are bureaucratic hired positions who are mostly supposed to keep their political opinions private. She could help him plan position papers, etc., but she couldn't take a public position.

Of course, that's IRL, so who knows with this show.

 

MG said they haven't deviated too much from the original plan IIRC.  This makes me think that the ultimate Team Arrow was/is supposed to be Green Arrow & Black Canary w/Speedy as sidekick.  Felicity & Diggle will have roles but only masks can be "Super".  Diggle is getting "identity concealment" not a mask.  They have been pretty firm on that point.

That's such spinny horse hockey (not you, Guggie). Changing the LI who's supposed to guide the hero in his journey is alone a huge change. Making Thea MM's daughter is a big change. Digg was never supposed to be nearly as important as he is, and he's now going to be more important with HIVE having killed his brother and the uproar from sidelining him last season. Felicity wasn't even contemplated in their original plans for the show. Tommy was supposed to become the Dark Archer after Malcolm died. They didn't know whether Isabel would be good or bad, and same with Sara. They didn't know they'd get RAG for the season of shite. Maybe their definition of plan differs from mine, but there have been a ton of changes from what they intended in the beginning.

Edited September 8, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[tarotx]

I thought MG said that the flashbacks haven't deviated from the the original plan? Though Felicity was put into the Laurel love interest role so while the girl changed, the actual emotional hits seem to stay the same. So the same but different like with Malcolm and Tommy.

And Diggle fans have been vocal about wanting Diggle to remain Diggle (if he can't be Green Lantern) so I get the Concealment talk from TPTB.

[Chaser]

I'm thinking Power Couple Olicity. Felicity is the current CEO/Owner of a company so successful and influential that they renamed the City in the former owner's honor. She is the cherry on top for Oliver. We heard so much about Olicity being fully together and a Team within a Team and them navigating that relationship, I expect to see it in Oliver's political life. I'm thinking the big players in Oliver's political story are Felicity, Thea and Thea's love interest.

 

I don't know how they would fit Laurel into that with her job at the DA's office and WM saying that Laurel was going to deal with being a vigilante in that position. I think the majority of Laurel story is going to be with Quentin and the Anti-Vigilante Task Force.

 

Diggle is working with Quentin and per Echo, he is also having scenes with Curtis and Felicity. In addition to repairing his relationship with Oliver. Diggle is certainly getting around. Super happy about that and the more I think about it, the more I'm curious about Diggle's storyline.

 

SideNote: I'm almost 100% positive there is going to be an Olicity proposal this season. Palmer Tech is becoming Queen Cons. at some point. 

Edited September 8, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[wonderwall]

SideNote: I'm almost 100% positive there is going to be an Olicity proposal this season. Palmer Tech is becoming Queen Cons. at some point. 

 

Queen Inc. :)

 

Also yeah I agree. With what JB and SA said or didn't say at the con and GB saying that there aren't a lot of married superheroes in an article a while ago, I think this is where the show is heading. 

[NumberCruncher]

I've actually been really relieved that Oliver's returning because the team needs him. If the team without the Arrow is a well-oiled machine, fighting crime successfully, then what's the point of his even being there?

One of the things that confused and frustrated me last season was the characters' and, frankly, the showrunners' apparent attitude that no one really needed the hero and main character of the show. If Oliver is simply going to be one of the team and not the leader, then change the name of the show.

This. Thank you! I have become very tired of the show marginalizing Oliver on his own freaking show. It's about time that they acknowledge his role amid the throng of insta-heroes this show loves throwing at us.

[Sunshine]

Um...How do we know that the timeline hasn't been changed by Eddie shooting himself and the big black hole, singularity or whatever they wish to call it? It's possible it doesn't become Queen, Inc.

[Chaser]

Queen Inc. :)

 

Also yeah I agree. With what JB and SA said or didn't say at the con and GB saying that there aren't a lot of married superheroes in an article a while ago, I think this is where the show is heading. 

I will never ever remember Queen Inc. lol

[wonderwall]

Um...How do we know that the timeline hasn't been changed by Eddie shooting himself and the big black hole, singularity or whatever they wish to call it? It's possible it doesn't become Queen, Inc.

 

DON'T :p I dont' even want to think about that clusterf*ck. -_-

I will never ever remember Queen Inc. lol

Don't worry, I'll correct you every single time until you get it :p 

[apinknightmare]

I don't think it really matters. If Felicity really has inherited Palmer Tech, since it was Oliver's company originally, I'm guessing it'll have the Queen name again at some point. Whether that's through marriage, or some other kind of acquisition, IDK. I don't think whatever's going down on The Flash is going to change that. 

[Chaser]

Um...How do we know that the timeline hasn't been changed by Eddie shooting himself and the big black hole, singularity or whatever they wish to call it? It's possible it doesn't become Queen, Inc.

I thought MG or one of the other show runners said that wouldn't effect Arrow. However, I was actually referring to MG saying at the beginning of S3 that Felicity and the Company were all tied to Oliver getting his humanity back. I'm paraphrasing that because I don't remember the exact quote.

[kismet]

I actually thought about "Alias" and how at the end of one of the pivotal episodes, they reveal that the best friend was actually dead and replaced by a bad guy that had plastic surgery. What if they do that with QL? It doesn't quite fit the hints about magic, but I remember that in the SDCC TV Line group interview, PB said that the end of ep 1 was "haunting", which makes me think there's death involved. 

ALIAS was phenomenal but they were able to do that because the story was set differently & they never hired out new talent to play the Evil Roles. In fact, I think it was so they could keep the actress who played Francie involved in the major plot once s2 ushered in a different Phase of the story. Considering the effort & money to secure NM to be DD leads me to think that he will have some control over QL but it will not be him using QL's body via shapeshifting or the laboratory doubling that they did in ALIAS. It was a cool twist for ALIAS to do & worked for their mythology. It could be something that is in DD's wheelhouse, but I don't think it will be used for QL. It was also more science/mythology & less magic in its execution, so if they wanted to do something similar I feel like they should wait until another season.

 

I also just don't think they will start off s4 with a death again.

[kismet]

AS for shapeshifting - I think they should leave that to True Blood & other shows that are more mystical in nature. If they do introduce it, I think it should be some person/group other than DD. You don't want to throw all your story elements into one basket. The money to spend on the graphics needed for that is just not cost efficient in my estimation. I don't mind the touch chest mind influence. Or some other mind whammy thing. For DD, I just think there are better options than doubling & shape-shifting. Perhaps if they decide to bring VIxen into live action or reference her then maybe but until then I think they should avoid it.

 

As for MAGIC/Mysticism - I am worried about what the writers are going to do with it. I enjoy it as a story telling device in stories like Harry Potter & Lord of the Rings because it had established rules & limitations. You knew what it could or could not do. Even if you weren't sure of its limitations, you knew there were limitations. I'm afraid it will become like OUAT where magic/mysticism changes every week to bend whatever plot the writers have come up for that week or arc. So at any moment in the story everything can be unchanged basically because the writers say so. That is a bad set-up. A good reason the LoA plots failed so measurably was that every week there was new fine print that undermined whatever the last week story had spent significant time establishing as absolute truth.

 

What the writers need to do is established a code/rules/regulations/manifest of the extent of what DD can & cannot do with his powers. That way they write the characters & plot to tell the best story possible within these realms of possibility. If they arc those out now perhaps they can avoid the mistakes of s3. They should try avoid twisting everything, using his powers as a reason to explain away plot holes or contradictions. It's like the soap opera writing rooms that keep family trees up permanantly in their rooms to avoid incest. The ARROW writers room needs a DD manifesto & power policy/procedure manual and refer back to that as the season develops.

[wonderwall]

So a list of things Arrow has never done before that's worthy of an "oh my god":

• Flash forward
• Good guy is actually bad? 
• Something magical
• Oliver reveals himself as GA/ runs for mayor?
• Thea almost kills Oliver? 

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Starfish35]

Didn't PB say it had something to do with Quentin, back at SDCC? I need to go check tv echo's spoiler notes.

[tarotx]

I still get the feeling that "nothing is as it seems" means some type of Glamour/Shape shifting. I don't see how it would be "that" much money. It's could just be done with a fussing/Clouding of the film and two actors being on set to film the before&after shifting. I don't see them going to animal shape shifting for DD so no intricate change in the body. And Glamouring isn't that far off of the science magic that has already been shown. Yes a little far fetched but a bit believable. First it's a perception trick. Imagine the use of Telepathy or the similar vocal cues used with brainwashing and perhaps a release of an aerosol hallucinogenic.

[Sunshine]

I don't think it really matters. If Felicity really has inherited Palmer Tech, since it was Oliver's company originally, I'm guessing it'll have the Queen name again at some point. Whether that's through marriage, or some other kind of acquisition, IDK. I don't think whatever's going down on The Flash is going to change that.

You're no fun ;)

[kismet]

I still get the feeling that "nothing is as it seems" means some type of Glamour/Shape shifting. I don't see how it would be "that" much money. It's could just be done with a fussing/Clouding of the film and two actors being on set to film the before&after shifting. I don't see them going to animal shape shifting for DD so no intricate change in the body. And Glamouring isn't that far off of the science magic that has already been shown. Yes a little far fetched but a bit believable. First it's a perception trick. Imagine the use of Telepathy or the similar vocal cues used with brainwashing and perhaps a release of an aerosol hallucinogenic.

Agree about glamouring. But glamouring is different then shapeshifting. Shapeshifting requires changing one body into another body. There are computer graphics required to do it well. Glamouring can be done all in the eyes or hand motions. I think glamouring is a strong possibility of what DD is doing to his soldiers & possibly QL.

[Sunshine]

Have we heard anything else about the floater between the 3 shows?  SA said it was a character who originated on Arrow.  MG has only said no when asked if it was various characters.  Would Hawkman make sense?  Doesn't he first appear on Arrow in 4.08?  If not, could it be a bad guy - Ra's or Damien Darhk?

[tarotx]

True shape shifting would change the body but not for when I use the word :p A Glamour is Illusion. Meaning if DD looks in the mirror he would see himself. Shape shifting is changing his appearance to look like who he wants others to see. Meaning if DD looks in the mirror he doesn't see himself but the other guy. Both visual affects would be the same imo. I do think for the realism aspect of Arrow, Glamour would better bit the bill and I think that is what is going to be at play this season. Though I could be completely wrong :p

Agree about glamouring. But glamouring is different then shapeshifting. Shapeshifting requires changing one body into another body. There are computer graphics required to do it well. Glamouring can be done all in the eyes or hand motions. I think glamouring is a strong possibility of what DD is doing to his soldiers & possibly QL.

Edited September 8, 2015 by tarotx

[kismet]

I wonder is DD is going to be able to stop arrows in midair like Yoda using the Force. If he can just raise his hands and stop/move objects. If he has a telepathy that helps him control objects & susceptible brains.

 

How he is going to handle the Green Arrow different from the other villains is going to be interesting. I feel like the other villains were set-up as playing almost a board game with OQ. They manipulated him & others that then exposed his vulnerabilities. I wonder if DD is just going to ignore OQ/GA. He's just gonna cause massive destruction so that OQ & TA are scrambling on all fronts to fix/prevent his destruction. There is no great masterplan that has OQ as the prize for DD. I could see DD"s arrogance/pride not bothering to register GA & TA as an actual threat.

[tarotx]

Yeah I can see this happening. And it would be the opposite of Ra's focus on Oliver Queen. And I do think DD will have psionic magic or a psionic manipulation skill set. Comic HIVE has a lot of Psionic powers running throughout it's members.

I wonder is DD is going to be able to stop arrows in midair like Yoda using the Force. If he can just raise his hands and stop/move objects. If he has a telepathy that helps him control objects & susceptible brains.

How he is going to handle the Green Arrow different from the other villains is going to be interesting. I feel like the other villains were set-up as playing almost a board game with OQ. They manipulated him & others that then exposed his vulnerabilities. I wonder if DD is just going to ignore OQ/GA. He's just gonna cause massive destruction so that OQ & TA are scrambling on all fronts to fix/prevent his destruction. There is no great masterplan that has OQ as the prize for DD. I could see DD"s arrogance/pride not bothering to register GA & TA as an actual threat.

Edited September 8, 2015 by tarotx

[BkWurm1]

I'm thinking Power Couple Olicity. Felicity is the current CEO/Owner of a company so successful and influential that they renamed the City in the former owner's honor. She is the cherry on top for Oliver. We heard so much about Olicity being fully together and a Team within a Team and them navigating that relationship, I expect to see it in Oliver's political life. I'm thinking the big players in Oliver's political story are Felicity, Thea and Thea's love interest.

 

 

 

SideNote: I'm almost 100% positive there is going to be an Olicity proposal this season. Palmer Tech is becoming Queen Cons. at some point. 

It occurs to me that marrying Felicity would do wonders for his shot at Mayor. Married with rich, smart, powerful wife vs single failed Ceo ex fratboy?   I half wonder if they will have his campaign manager suggest it early on and Oliver refuse because he of course wouldn't want her to think he has any hidden motives. 

[Morrigan2575]

Have we heard anything else about the floater between the 3 shows?  SA said it was a character who originated on Arrow.  MG has only said no when asked if it was various characters.  Would Hawkman make sense?  Doesn't he first appear on Arrow in 4.08?  If not, could it be a bad guy - Ra's or Damien Darhk?

He said this so long ago, during filming for S3 (IIRC) and implied it was a character that had originated on Arrow (not will originate on Arrow).  One thing I can say for SA is he's very literal and careful with his word choice.  I'm inclined to believe it was someone that we've already seen.  They were also supposed to reveal the floater at SDCC (IIRC) and Hawkman probably wasn't a given at that time.

 

It's never been revealed who the floater is.  For all I know there is no floater anymore and, they changed their minds.  If anyone has Tumblr you can always ask MG again.  I know he ruled out Laurel and Felicity.  The main suspects seem to be Malcolm, Roy and Lyla.  I'd also add Amanda Waller to the mix, since she's once again appearing in the flashbacks.

[quarks]

It's never been revealed who the floater is.  For all I know there is no floater anymore and, they changed their minds.  If anyone has Tumblr you can always ask MG again.  I know he ruled out Laurel and Felicity.  The main suspects seem to be Malcolm, Roy and Lyla.  I'd also add Amanda Waller to the mix, since she's once again appearing in the flashbacks.

 

There's also the remote possibility that it's Cisco - yes, he's a Flash character, but technically he did start out on Arrow, and he could easily be the tech/equipment guy for all three shows. 

[tv echo]

There was some speculation that Malcolm would be the floater:

-- Per MG, Malcolm will factor into Arrow, Flash, and LoT. (Scans from TV Guide Magazine's SDCC 2015 special, page 18 of Spoilers thread)

 

Previous MG statement on their overall plan referred to both flashbacks and present day:

-- On overall plan, per MG, they have not deviated drastically from their plan for the 5-year arc with flashbacks and present time; if the ratings continue to be strong, they will not have to change, but if the ratings tank, then they will make changes as needed. (youmademeafan tumblr post, page 581 of Spoiler Discussion thread)

 

Previous spoilers on ending of 4x01:

-- According to SA, the ending to 4x01 "will be a bigger shocker than Sara getting killed."  (Fan tweet, page 18 of Spoilers thread)
​-- SA: “We do something at the end of our first episode that we’ve never done on the show. You’ll know it when you see it.” (TV Fanatic video of  interview with SA at SDCC 2015, page 68 of Starling City Times thread)
-- PB: "[A]t the end of - during episode one [of S4] - it's revealed that there's a little bit of a dark element going on in Lance's life... born out of that, at least in my mind, is how people will seemingly do bad things for what they believe is the right reason... There's a very interesting play by the end of episode one, you're like 'Lance? Really? Oh!'... But whether we end up considering it good or bad is up to the viewer." (Fangirlish video of media interview with PB at SDCC 2015, page 66 of Starling City Times thread)
-- Per JB, you'll need to bring your tissues to watch 4x01 and you'll be going "What?!"  Added PB, "especially on the last scene... That last scene is going to haunt the rest of the season." (TVLine video of interview with Arrow cast and WM at SDCC 2015, page 65 of Starling City Times article)

-- Per PB, the audience will be surprised by a choice Quentin makes early in S4. "He'll do anything for the city, even if he ends up being a dick for doing it." (Seat42F video of media interview with PB at SDCC 2015, page 162 of Behind the Mask thread; and ComicBookResources article, page 68 of Starling City Times thread)

 

Here is GB's interview with THR almost exactly a year ago (right before S3 started) - he said that the Olicity story would not dominate S3 and, as I interpret it, seemed to dismiss the idea of married superheroes:

'Arrow' Boss on Oliver's Love Life: Not Many Superheroes "Are Married"
SEPTEMBER 09, 2014 7:00am PT by Philiana Ng
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/arrow-producer-oliver-felicity-ras-731022

Arrow and The Flash executive producer Greg Berlanti promises that while Oliver and Felicity's progression as a pair may be exciting for a portion of the fans, it won't dominate the season.

 

"None of us like to throw stuff out there and then not deal with it in some way. It doesn't mean it occupies the story and that's all we deal with, but you want to be fair to the audience," Berlanti tells The Hollywood Reporter.

 

Charting that particular relationship has been "something that we've been working toward and building toward since she first showed up on the show," he says. "We deal with it head-on in the premiere, but there aren't a lot of superheroes who are married. It's more that we're dealing with the finale than we are with them."

Edited September 8, 2015 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

There's also the remote possibility that it's Cisco - yes, he's a Flash character, but technically he did start out on Arrow, and he could easily be the tech/equipment guy for all three shows. 

You're right, I forgot about Cisco

[dtissagirl]

I'm forever grateful for you, @tv-echo. <3

 

-- PB: "[A]t the end of - during episode one [of S4] - it's revealed that there's a little bit of a dark element going on in Lance's life... born out of that, at least in my mind, is how people will seemingly do bad things for what they believe is the right reason... There's a very interesting play by the end of episode one, you're like 'Lance? Really? Oh!'... But whether we end up considering it good or bad is up to the viewer."

 

-- Per PB, the audience will be surprised by a choice Quentin makes early in S4. "He'll do anything for the city, even if he ends up being a dick for doing it."

 

I wonder if this is related to that bit on the trailer when DD tells that table of people -- Quentin included -- that they should let the city die. If Quentin goes to DD because he wants to help achieve that, and DD goes and do whatever it is that will "haunt" the season.

[HighwayFlower]

So maybe whatever Quentin does, it's in the scene that shows Laurel standing in the street looking at him? That could have been her being shocked at something he just said or did...

[Morrigan2575]

I don't know why but, I don't think that scene is in 401.  I think it's from 402 or 403

[tv echo]

In the S4 trailer, DD says "so you're all fretting about this city dying. I'm here on behalf of an organization that wants you to let it die."  There's another scene where Quentin tells Oliver "this city started to go to crap the moment you put on that hood. You brought madness into all of our lives, and the monster you were inspired other monsters."

 

So maybe Star(Iing) City is dying and Quentin blames Oliver/Arrow for that. (rme)  So maybe Quentin makes a deal with DD to save the city.

 

So DD might have nothing to do with Sara's resurrection (which would involve Nyssa, Quentin and Laurel). Maybe Malcolm initially objects to the use of the LP, but Nyssa agrees not to challenge Malcolm for the Ra's position in exchange for using the LP to bring back Sara.

Edited September 8, 2015 by tv echo

[dtissagirl]

Yeah, I'm also starting to think Lance's deal with DD has to do with the city, and whatever goes on with Sara's resurrection is separate. Merlyn's obviously involved in LPing Sara, and per BTS pictures, we know PB and KC had scenes in the Lazarus Pit set. But so far there doesn't seem to be any clue to DD being connected to that storyline.

[Sakura12]

From the clip of Sara's resurrection. Nyssa's being held back by swords while Malcolm is standing in front of the pit with his Ra's cane along with two other women (one is most likely Laurel, the other might be Thea). So it's hard to really tell what's going on, although to me both Nyssa and Malcolm look sort of surprised, maybe because they didn't know if it would work. 

 

From that it also looks like Malcolm is the one bringing Sara back and Nyssa was trying to stop them. But it could also be Nyssa that went behind Malcolm's back and he tried to stop her but Laurel and Thea threw Sara in the pit while they were fighting. He gets the upper hand and they run into the room with the pit to see Sara rise from the water. 

[Starfish35]

"this city started to go to crap the moment you put on that hood. You brought madness into all of our lives, and the monster you were inspired other monsters."

This really makes me mad, because it's not true. I am so sick of Quentin's vendetta against Oliver. While there could be a case about Slade and Ra's, the Undertaking would have happened whether Oliver was there or not, and would have been a lot worse if he hadn't been there.

PB is a great actor, but I am just so over Quentin always blaming Oliver for everything that happens.

ETA: yeah, I'm not sure we have enough information from the trailer to know what sides Malcolm and Nyssa are on re: Sara's resurrection. I do think from what JB has said that Malcolm will protest about it, but whether Thea talks him into it or whether Nyssa helps them go behind his back I don't know.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Starfish35

[dtissagirl]

Let me make a revision on my previous post:

 

- The PB & KC picture with the Lazarus Pit is from 405. https://instagram.com/p/63cwA_DdGn/

- Assuming Katrina Law didn't film scenes in advance for that episode, then the LPing Sara scene from the trailer is in 403

- KC mentioned at SDCC that Laurel plays a role in bringing Sara back. So it does make sense that Laurel is one of the two headless ladies in the background

 

It actually would be typical Lances if Quentin makes a deal with DD, and Laurel makes a deal with Merlyn, I guess?

Edited September 8, 2015 by dtissagirl

[Starfish35]

If KL has not filmed anything since 403, then I think you're right - Sara is resurrected in that episode, and someone's gotten their wires crossed about Constantine helping with her resurrection. It's more likely that it's what we thought at first - that he's helping with the consequences of her resurrection.

I'm wondering how Thea plays into all of this. Will Constantine "fix" her at the same time, or what will happen there?

[Sakura12]

I always kind of thought that Constantine was being brought in after Sara's been resurrected to help with the aftereffects. With Constantine involved I'm thinking Sara was in hell and a demon jumped aboard her resurrection. 

[apinknightmare]

If KL has not filmed anything since 403, then I think you're right - Sara is resurrected in that episode, and someone's gotten their wires crossed about Constantine helping with her resurrection. 

 

Didn't the EPs (multiple ones) say that Constantine is brought on to help with a resurrection? I suppose there could be more than one, but IDK.

[AyChihuahua]

This really makes me mad, because it's not true. I am so sick of Quentin's vendetta against Oliver. While there could be a case about Slade and Ra's, the Undertaking would have happened whether Oliver was there or not, and would have been a lot worse if he hadn't been there.

Yeah, Oliver is less than zero to blame for The Undertaking (less, because it would have been much worse without him), and while he was partly the cause of Slade's attack, man, he could not possibly have known that giving Slade Mirakuru, trying to save Sara, and killing (he thought) Slade would result in that. I hold RAG's attack against him somewhat, but of course the real bad guys there are RAG and Malcolm, with an assist by Quentin.