S11.E03: The Bad Seed

[Linderhill]

 

Rowena is...to be honest pretty pathetic in her power grab scenes. Witches blow her off left and right. And really, she has managed to augment her power level but doesn`t really have the natural charisma of a leader. She comes on way too strong and squirrely and hyper.

 

Which is actually a problem I have with the character for the most part as well. She has some good one-liners but I only really liked her scene with Dean because the character/actress dialed it down a bit there.

 

For some characters/performers a big scenery-chewing performance can work but somehow they mostly overshoot with Rowena for me.

This I fully agree with.  Ruthie is a lovely person but Rowena almost always grates on my nerves.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Is Anyone Else Freaked Out By Supernatural's Amira?
Also, Sam and Dean scry a river about Castiel, but Rowena's so over it.

[Partly]

I'm not into victim blaming and in a perfect world women would be just as safe as a man wandering around a deserted alley at night (that is to say, not very), but come on.  This woman was absolutely oblivious to her surroundings in a rabbit warren of dark, secluded alleys and empty warehouses.   She should have been nervous even before she heard Cas.

 

I'm a terrible poster child for "street smarts" I suppose, and I've never lived in a "big city" but a spent a great deal of my life in Madison, WI which is about twice the size of Topeka (where Cas was) and I've walked down streets/alleyways like those. Most of them are only a block or two off of populated area and aren't a haven for criminals.  Since there were two women walking in the area it obviously wasn't a dangerous spot.  Mileage varies, I know.  For instance, I didn't think that Dean's "Hey" was an attempt to hit on/pick up/check out the girl, but an attempt at talking to someone who may have seen Cas in the area.  She blew him off (understandably) and he kept looking.  I mean, the first thing you do when you are looking for someone is talk to the people in the area.

 

I was watching the season 10 episodes with the commentary and the comment that stood out was that everything on Supernatural has a price and that price is usually paid by Dean....then a pause and a quiet "usually by torture"* and I think that's true. To Dean getting the snot beat out of him by Cas is part of the price of the whole MoC debacle.

 

I agree with this statement.  It's a price that Dean is not only paying but one that he is willing to pay.  In fact, I'd say that Dean's view that this pain, this "beat down" from Cas is penance and helps him deal with (and perhaps set aside) some of the guilt he feels, that's a good thing.  When you hurt someone, even accidentally or even if you have no choice, there is still guilt over that pain you cause.  You have to be able to deal with that.  Quite frankly, NOT feeling guilt over things like that is a sign of psychopathy, so I'd rather have Dean be guilty than be blasé about it.

[SueB]

 

When you hurt someone, even accidentally or even if you have no choice, there is still guilt over that pain you cause.  You have to be able to deal with that.  Quite frankly, NOT feeling guilt over things like that is a sign of psychopathy, so I'd rather have Dean be guilty than be blasé about it.

And I suppose a batch of Willow Rosenberg's Chocolate Chip cookies won't do for Dean.  

[Aeryn13]

 

Quite frankly, NOT feeling guilt over things like that is a sign of psychopathy, so I'd rather have Dean be guilty than be blasé about it.

 

I agree. But the show pretty much gave a totally different message in that episode with EvilCharlie. She instigated a fight with MOC!Dean and bit off more than she could chew. Yet in the aftermath when apparently only Dean felt guilty, she told him to let go of it, not even acknowledging that there had been a tit for tat in that fight. Like, she can forgive him, I guess but who gives her the right to forgive herself in his place? Seriously? Only that was played as her being right and him holding onto guilt unncessarily.

 

 Here, he does the same, shouldering blame when it isn`t warranted but the episode played it like it was kiinda right? 

 

Dean is consistent between those two episode but IMO the overall tone is not.

[Omegamom]

In that situation, MoC!Dean went way overboard, whaling on Evil!Charlie far beyond the point where it was needed. That was what Dean was feeling guilty about, and why whole!Charlie reassured him. Because it was the Mark that made him do it. Like Dean reassured Cas that it was the attack-dog spell that made him beat up on Dean.

It's often easier to excuse others for behavior that you won't forgive yourself for.

(BTW...apparently there is dispute about whether it is "whaling on" or "waling on". OED says "whaling on", some other dictionaries have both, and some plunk down on "waling on". Fascinating. Whaling on, one dictionary says, comes from beating with a small, flexible whale bone. Waling on, another dictionary says, comes from wales or welts, the stripes left behind on the skin after a serious beating. It definitely is not "wailing on", except apparently in rock music reviews/criticism. The things one learns...)

[Partly]

In that situation, MoC!Dean went way overboard, whaling on Evil!Charlie far beyond the point where it was needed. That was what Dean was feeling guilty about, and why whole!Charlie reassured him. Because it was the Mark that made him do it. Like Dean reassured Cas that it was the attack-dog spell that made him beat up on Dean.

 

This was my interpretation.  In Dean's mind, telling Cas that "Besides, I had it coming" is another way of absolving Cas of wrongdoing.  It's probably a bad sign that I can understand that line of thinking.

 

And thanks for the "whaling on/waling on" note -- I never use it because I never know what's right.  Good to know that I'll only be wrong if I "wail on" someone!

[mertensia]

Mind you I'd still like to drop B-L off a cliff for the continued Asian fetish and the NO HOMO moment, but those were relative nits. I'll go by character and/or relationship for my comments:

What on earth is a NO HOMO moment?

[SueB]

What on earth is a NO HOMO moment?

Sorry, too much time on Twitter and Tumblr (which frankly, I barely understand).

 

/starting charts and arrows mode.... 

NO HOMO means when they insert an obvious "this character is not gay" moment before they have a moment that could look like a potential romance between (usually) men.  In this case, the somewhat random pretty blond getting a "hey" out of Dean during the middle of a rescue mission for Cas.  JUST to remind us that Dean is NOT GAY (or BI). In caps because it's seems pretty obvious that there was no plot point there -- just a reminder that any sign of tenderness that Dean shows Cas does not mean they are going to have romantic Destiel.

 

Personally I find it infuriating. It dumbs Dean down to "horn dog".

 

/end graphs and arrows mode*

 

*that would be my tendency to over explain.  

 

 

[mertensia]

Dean trying to ask a young woman if she'd seen Cas was there to prove that he isn't gay? I doubt this crossed either writer's mind. It certainly would never ever have crossed mine.

[Partly]

NO HOMO means when they insert an obvious "this character is not gay" moment before they have a moment that could look like a potential romance between (usually) men.  In this case, the somewhat random pretty blond getting a "hey" out of Dean during the middle of a rescue mission for Cas.  JUST to remind us that Dean is NOT GAY (or BI). In caps because it's seems pretty obvious that there was no plot point there -- just a reminder that any sign of tenderness that Dean shows Cas does not mean they are going to have romantic Destiel.

 

Personally I find it infuriating. It dumbs Dean down to "horn dog".

 

It may be my lack of hanging out on SPN tumblr/twitter sites, but I didn't get this vibe at all for that scene.  Quite honestly, if the writers were really "afraid" of having the fans see Destiel in the show, they would massively change how they write the character interaction between them rather than throw in women that Dean talks to.

[SueB]

It may be my lack of hanging out on SPN tumblr/twitter sites, but I didn't get this vibe at all for that scene.  Quite honestly, if the writers were really "afraid" of having the fans see Destiel in the show, they would massively change how they write the character interaction between them rather than throw in women that Dean talks to.

I agree.  You would think that is the way.  And maybe my viewing perspective is a bit internet-influenced.  For example, when the FortuneNookie bit went up, here's my sequences of thoughts:

1) "Busty Asian Beauties on line"

2) "REALLY?! STILL?!" -- "is there a point?" 

3) "Well this will be in everyone's criticisms tomorrow.. UGGG."

4) "Thank goodness we don't actually have the Dean fantasy I was worried about from the trailer screenshots"

5) "I wonder if Cas got a boner and it triggered the spell..."

 

And now, I've provide WAY to much insight into the realtime thinking of SueB.  Sorry about that. 

 

So... what vibe did you get with the pretty girl?  I'm curious because I want to eschew this jaded POV of mine and would be happy to adopt yours!

[Demented Daisy]

My immediate reaction to the pretty girl moment was, "Really?"  What would he have done if she had actually stopped and talked to him?  Ignored her because he suddenly remembered they were supposed to be looking for Cas?  Or give up looking for Cas to talk to a pretty girl?

 

Either way, the moment does nothing for the character except make Dean look bad, IMO.  (Nice to know that he's so concerned for someone who is supposed to be a brother to him that he takes the time to chat up a pretty girl.  Love those priorities!)

 

I am of the opinion that everything that they take the time (and money) to film has a purpose.  I don't know what the purpose to that moment is.  It feels pointless to me.  But they must have been trying to tell us something.

[Aeryn13]

 

 

I am of the opinion that everything that they take the time (and money) to film has a purpose.  I don't know what the purpose to that moment is.  It feels pointless to me.  But they must have been trying to tell us something.

 

I think you already answered your question here:

 

 

Either way, the moment does nothing for the character except make Dean look bad, IMO. 

 

They were not trying to tell us anything else than that.

 

These particular writers IMO do not care for the character and they will always find ways to let viewers know. 

[DittyDotDot]

So... what vibe did you get with the pretty girl?  I'm curious because I want to eschew this jaded POV of mine and would be happy to adopt yours!

 

I am of the opinion that everything that they take the time (and money) to film has a purpose.  I don't know what the purpose to that moment is.  It feels pointless to me.  But they must have been trying to tell us something.

 

I think they were just trying to remind us that Dean loves the ladies. For the last couple seasons Dean has been firmly entrenched in hand-wringing and angst and has barely even noticed the opposite sex. Now, the Mark's gone and Dean is back to being Dean. Seems like there could've been a better moment to do this and a better way to do it too, but that was my take on it, anyway. 

 

However, it seems this writing duo doesn't seem to really get characterization much. They tend to be very what-ever-the-plot-needs writers, so I find there's a lot of confusing characterizations in their episodes. It could be I'm just working too hard to find meaning where there really was none intended.

Edited October 24, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[SueB]

I think they were just trying to remind us that Dean loves the ladies. For the last couple seasons Dean has been firmly entrenched in hand-wringing and angst and has barely even noticed the opposite sex. Now, the Mark's gone and Dean is back to being Dean. Seems like there could've been a better moment to do this and a better way to do it too, but that was my take on it, anyway. 

 

However, it seems this writing duo doesn't seem to really get characterization much. They tend to be very what-ever-the-plot-needs writers, so I find there's a lot of confusing characterizations in their episodes. It could be I'm just working too hard to find meaning where there really was none intended.

It's a fair perspective (just a reminder that Dean is free of the Mark and his libido is back).  This was the first episode filmed and the first that where they had a change of clothes from the finale (meaning they had come down from IMMINENT WORLD ENDING CRISIS MODE).  So... Dean starting to see the world again without Mark-colored-glasses may be a thing.  

But, as you said... choppy choppy choppy.  One of the interviews from a past-season DVD had Eugenia proudly stating that they go back and watch all their mytharc episodes that THEY have written to keep a common theme.  And of course, I'm thinking, are you watching anyone ELSE's work????  Because that's part of the problem with their LOL!Canon moments.  They have their OWN idea of the show (based on the episodes they've written) and I'm not sure it matches the rest of the writing staff.  

 

On a somewhat related note.... I asked Jim Micheals if his job had changed with Bob Singer stepping back now.  He said Bob spends as much time in Vancouver as he ever did so "no", nothing has changed.  Perhaps that's just a transition thing or it'll only affect his LA duties.  But if half of the writing team is with her husband in Vancouver... then how much interaction does she have with the other writers?  Hmmmmmm.......

 

I do know Eugenia got a face-full of fan reaction in Italy last year.  I'm not sure what, if anything, was TRULY her take away on that experience.  

[DittyDotDot]

One of the interviews from a past-season DVD had Eugenia proudly stating that they go back and watch all their mytharc episodes that THEY have written to keep a common theme.  And of course, I'm thinking, are you watching anyone ELSE's work????  Because that's part of the problem with their LOL!Canon moments.  They have their OWN idea of the show (based on the episodes they've written) and I'm not sure it matches the rest of the writing staff.    

 

Well, I think that's a kind of the problem in general with the show, as of late. Each writer seems to have their own vision for the show and it doesn't always play nice with the others. IMO, they really need someone to take control and give the show a cohesive vision. 

 

Yeah, I know...

[SueB]

I would SO love if Robbie Thomspon or Bobo Berens was made Head writer.  Both of them WORK the continuity angle.  

[DittyDotDot]

Moved to TPTB thread...

[catrox14]

To me that scene was bad because IMO Jensen overplayed the comedy. 9 times out of 10 Jensen nails those comedic scenes and he was the one directing this so I think he just overplayed it for the comedy which gave it more emphasis on Deans flirting than IMO it warranted.

And even with it played for comedy that doesn't mean it's NO HOMO because if Dean is Bi why wouldn't he check out a hot chick and still runs off to save his possible not! BoyfriendCas

If the show is considering moving towards a more overt look at Dean's maybe possibly latent bisexuality then there is a lot in these first three episodes IMO that could be read as paving the way for that. Not saying they will or won't just saying things I've noticed could be pointing to that possibility.

For example, they have an openly queer Jenna who mentions her first kiss was a girl and then she lost her virginity in a different house. Did that imply Jenna was bi if we are going with the strictly conventional notion of losing ones virginity? Or that she was a lesbian solely and losing her virginity was with a woman? They have Crowley in a female meatsuit having a mixed gender orgy. They have Hannah in a male meatsuit making heart eyes at Cas big time IMO.

There is a lot more fluid sexuality and gender politics this season than I've ever seen before. Just something I noticed that probably means nothing and it could be a total no HOMO thing but I can see how it might not be solely that.

[catrox14]

So rewatching the episode something that I did notice the first time but it really stood out to me a second time.

Rowena's confrontation with Dean. I can't quite articulate it but Dean's demeanor completely changed when she said there something different about him. That look on his face was so beautifully ambiguous and IMO very MoC!Dean. Was he hiding something? Did he think she was just full of shit? Or was he showing something else that we don't yet know about?

I think Rowena knows more far more than she's letting on.

[SueB]

Agreed.  I also thought that when she said she was a "force of nature" it matched well with Crowley calling Amara a primal.

 

I really think Rowena will be involved in dealing with the Darkness because she, as a "natural", is not borrowing her power from demons but getting it from....IDK... the universe itself?  

[Partly]

Good grief!  A girl spends the day working around the farm and misses out on all the cool talk!

So... what vibe did you get with the pretty girl?  I'm curious because I want to eschew this jaded POV of mine and would be happy to adopt yours!

 

My non-jaded POV: Dean is looking for Cas, he knows the general area but ain't got a clue where he is really.  How best to search for someone when you are in the middle of a concrete jungle and you can't read track?  Ask someone!  The place is empty but not completely deserted.  A girl (and yes, a pretty girl -- because she's a friggin' actress!) approaches, Dean goes "Hey".  Now, is this the best thing to say? Maybe not, but there's really no better way to start out. The "Can you help me, I'm looking for my lost puppy" line isn't going to win anyone over even if you exchange "friend" for "puppy".  

 

Now, when she blows him off with a "Get a life", does he think that there used to be a time when he could have gotten her to stop.  Possibly.  But I know he wasn't hitting on her because way back in season 6 when Soulless Sam was trying to figure out exactly when he could be sleeping around when someone he cares about is missing, Dean says not until you get them back.  He's very firm about this.  So I know that Dean would never be looking to pick someone up when Cas is missing.  It's not who Dean is.

 

 

[mertensia]

Well seriously. This is a no-win for the writers. If it's a young woman "NO HOMO!!" moment. If it's a guy it's "See?!?! Dean is gay/bi!!!" What do you expect them to do? Only have hideously ugly male winos as the only extras they are allowed to use?

My first thought watching was, in fact, "oh; he's going to ask if if she's seen Cas".

[SueB]

Well seriously. This is a no-win for the writers. If it's a young woman "NO HOMO!!" moment. If it's a guy it's "See?!?! Dean is gay/bi!!!" What do you expect them to do? Only have hideously ugly male winos as the only extras they are allowed to use?

My first thought watching was, in fact, "oh; he's going to ask if if she's seen Cas".

Fair. I actually agree they are in a no win situation. And if he had even started to ask a question I'd have defended it. It was just weirdly out of place IMO.

[mertensia]

He has to- as Party pointed out- be non-threatening. So he starts off with "hey". She was all yeah no. Don't know you. Don't want to talk to you. Which I understand. So she didn't let him get to "you seen a guy a little shorter than me? Wearing a trenchcoat and a befuddled look? Acting like Rain Man?"

[Demented Daisy]

I would love to agree, but it was in Jensen's delivery.  He didn't say, "Hey."  He said, "Heeeey."  With an appreciative smile.  Classic Dean flirting.

[mertensia]

And he probably thinks it comes across less threatening. Which no not really. But that is reality. Men usually do not understand how what they perceive as unthreatening actually is.

[Demented Daisy]

That's certainly one interpretation.  It's just not one that I share.  Mainly because that scene has no intrinsic value, IMO.  Remove the girl and what do we have?  Dean walking down the street, hearing a noise, and checking out an alley.

 

Why was it necessary to include Dean flirting with a female?  What did it add to the scene?

[DittyDotDot]

TBH, I never considered he was actually trying to pick her up--as though he'd stop looking for Cass and do her right then and there if she had been willing--but Dean being Dean, he noticed a pretty girl while going on about his business. 

 

Perhaps it was just a way to slow him down enough to be at the right place at the right time to hear the noise and someone probably thought it would be a silly thing that would add some levity to the moment? 

[Demented Daisy]

Oh, I'm absolutely sure you're right.  It was just poorly executed, IMO.

[SueB]

And he probably thinks it comes across less threatening. Which no not really. But that is reality. Men usually do not understand how what they perceive as unthreatening actually is.

TRUTH.

[catrox14]

Upthread I wrote a thing about how I didn't think the "Dean sees a pretty girl" moment was necessarily a purposefully written "NO HOMO" moment. That was just my thinky thoughts.

 

But I really think the main issue is that as is fairly typical in Buck-Lemming episodes they have to always include a "take Dean Winchester down a peg or two" moment.

 

Even if Dean is the hero of the episode or does something interesting or loving or whatever they still slip in this kind of thing that regresses Dean in some way to super mean!Dean or Dumb!Dean or stupid!Horny!Dean that has no real reason for existing in the episodes other than to bash Dean a little bit because they think it's funny. YMMV

[AwesomO4000]

Team Winchester - That toss of the purse behind the back!  Nice teamwork boys.  And the unison "NO!"s to Rowena on that "roadtrip"? Again, delightful.  I wasn't happy they made a fuss over Sam not mentioning he tried to kill Crowley. I didn't think it was a big deal.  And frankly they are both keeping bigger secrets right now (cage-vision and "bound" status).

 

Now that I've watched a first time, I wanted to agree with this. I know they were pointing at the lying by ommission thing in this scene,* but part of what came across to me - probably inadvertantly - was that the trying to kill Crowley part was somehow bad. As in Sam made a deal where he had to kill Crowley: how awful. It seems to me, a deal with Rowena where the price is "kill Crowley" is brilliant. Why should Sam not want to kill Crowley anyway? It's like getting a favor for doing something you wanted to do - and should do - anyway. So Rowena continuing to point out "oh, and by the way, Crowley's not dead" as if that was the point annoyed me. As did Sam not sticking up for himself by poinnting out it was her crappy spell that didn't work. It wasn't as if Sam didn't try to kill Crowley; which again, I say faster pussycat, kill, kill. I'd be disappointed in Sam if he didn't try to kill Crowley at every opportunity. He's been wanting to kill Crowley since they first met in season 5, and he has even more reason now.

 

It's one trope that I kind of enjoy. It's like Sam saw Crowley as his mortal enemy at first site, and nothing Crowley can do will change that. Despite Sam wanting to give some monsters - and even demons in teh case of Meg - the benefit of the doubt, Crowley was never included in that reprieve. And I don't want that little detail to change, because as Meg warned; Crowley is always the problem, and no matter what "good" or "helpful" thing he might appear to do, in my opinion, that's never going to change. And I don't want Sam to be fooled and not trust his original - in my opinion correct - instinct concerning Crowley.

 

And I'm not looking forward to the Sam-shaming I'm seeing coming in the future either. It was okay - but sufficient - in season 5, but I don't see the current writing crew as handling it as well as that one. And I'm kind of over Sam being set up to have something he has to be ashamed about and/or guilty for and as the one who is in the wrong.

 

 

* Which I knew was coming since last season. I've been anticipating the Sam is going to be shamed for lying and Dean will hold it inside until it comes out in pasive-aggressive comments and/or Sam will have to feel guilty about it most of the season thing. I didn't care what "there won't be any finger-pointing guilt" stuff The Powers That Be tried to spout. I didn't believe that for more than a moment.

[mertensia]

Well of course Rowena's going to hammer home that Sam failed ad nauseum; it's her personality! Had Sam succeeded she'd be running "secret deal with me" into the ground.

[Jediknight]

Rowena was delightful tonight. I really wanted to hear what ever song she had in mind for their little road trip. I'm sure it was all sorts of horrible. ;)

You ever see that episode of Big Bang Theory where they have a scavenger hunt, and Howard and Amy are the only ones to have any fun due to bonding over their love of Neil Diamond?  I'd imagine Rowena would have thrown on a Taylor Swift song, and then she and Dean completely forget about what they were supposed to do, and just spend the entire time singing Taylor Swift songs and wind up at karaoke.

[Myrelle]

So rewatching the episode something that I did notice the first time but it really stood out to me a second time.

Rowena's confrontation with Dean. I can't quite articulate it but Dean's demeanor completely changed when she said there something different about him. That look on his face was so beautifully ambiguous and IMO very MoC!Dean. Was he hiding something? Did he think she was just full of shit? Or was he showing something else that we don't yet know about?

I think she said something along the lines of  "What did I take from you? ", didn't she? I thought this was the best scene of the entire episode and one of only two or three things that were worth the price of watching this perfectly horribly written episode. The Nepotism Duo remain consistent in that, at least.

I think Dean had a love affair with his darker aspect while he carried the mark and the Darkness knows this because it's inherent to being a truly dark being or character. Jensen said he played DemonDean as completely uncaring of right or wrong or light or dark. It was simply all about what he wanted to do w/o being saddled with any guilt over it and furthermore actually enjoying that feeling and interpreting it as a type of "freedom" that he'd never known, but come close to in Purgatory with Benny. I'm hoping that they will take this Dean storyline where it appears that it's been heading since that time-to Dean confronting his own inner darkness-a very human tale-and where I think they were trying to go with Sam and Ruby and the demon blood sl. The episode have all been very derivative of that, IMO. We shall see. I thought Jensen rocked that scene so hard. Dean has walked that thin line between lightness and dark for most of his life-and this w/o any supernatural influence added into the mix-and as most real life humans walk that same line. The MoC was the reason that he fell on the side of darkness in s9 and 10, but the surprising thing is that on some level, it felt good to him because it, again, "freed" him completely from the confines of his own mind and all the guilt that he's always carried-both warranted and unwarranted. Amara will play on that, I'm sure. It is the essence of their bond, IMO. And again, I'm looking so forward to Jensen portraying the duality of Dean's core nature-a duality that allows him to be the best hunter on the planet but that also has messed with his mind constantly since he was a child who was not only taught to kill monsters, but also born to it, in his own mind, at least. I guess we'll just have to sit through some drek like this before we get there, though.

 

And we see the guilt again, but with so few words yet again in that last exchange between him and Cas over Cas' desire to heal Dean. I loved both actors in that scene. No words necessary. Not IMO and even though I've read many opinions to the contrary. I think Cas finally gets it now-that Dean is, in some ways, damaged beyond repair from the life he's lived both as a hunter and to his having been appointed Sam's protector by their father from childhood. I think it's likely that Dean will be letting go of that role again somewhat this season. I think that's what episode 2, in spite of the again awful writing and execution involved, was attempting to convey. 

 

I thought the little girl did a great job as LittleGirlDarkness. I loved her "lesson" to Crowley who we all know has bitten off more than he can chew. Again.

 

The rest of this episode was completely forgettable to me and that's what I'm going to try and do with it. I'm glad that the stupid attack dog spell is gone. What a dumb thing to waste precious screen time on, but we always have to consider the ineptitude of the writing/showrunning team on this show now.

 

The car conversation again set alarm bells ringing in my head and red flags shooting up for the next brother "talk". I'm dreading Sam's next "lecture" to Dean because I have the awful feeling that they're just going to do exactly what they did in S5 and S8. Not looking forward to that at all, but again, thank God for the invention of the FF button.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Myrelle

[SueB]

I really like your observations on the duality of Dean and the freedom that Purgatory, being a demon, and the Mark provided.  I think he was exhausted by the Mark and is thrilled it's gone. But now as they clean up the impacts, I think he's learned something about himself in the last few years and it's showing.  

[Myrelle]

I'm really considering not looking at con stuff as much, anymore; or even lurking too much on-line any more. I'm thinking that the show might be more enjoyable to me if I don't know what's going in the minds of some of the people running the show. *shrugs*

[rue721]

Considering this is a Ross-Lemming/Buckner episode, I think it was pretty good!

 

Rowena is hokey as hell, but I find Ruth Connell so adorable and endearing that I enjoy her anyway. Also, I find it hilarious how literally everyone within the show treats Rowena like a giant loser. The way those witches scoffed at her MegaCoven idea and blew off her power-grab was hilarious. Everyone is constantly underestimating her, so I kind of want her to give them all their comeuppance. Also, she and Crowley are similar in just the right ways -- I actually can believe them as mother and son, in that sense. They think the same way. That's also why they're good nemeses, imo.

 

I enjoyed watching Crowley try and deal with Amara. You could see his wheels turning when he realized that she would happily eat demon souls. You could practically see his train of thought:  that he was in danger, because she might eat him (uh oh!)....so he should probably keep her well-fed for his own safety...so why not just feed her demons he's pissed at anyway?...so maybe he can just exploit her as a threat against his underlings, to keep them in line. LOL. I loved how he turned from manipulative to afraid to manipulative, all in the space of about five seconds. And I'm looking forward to the day when he tries to feed her Rowena's soul. That will probably be Amara's undoing somehow.

 

Cas's storyline isn't doing much for me. YMMV. I liked Cas for the ten seconds he was human and working at that corner store, so I don't think the problem is that I dislike Cas as a character. The thing is, I just am not into angels, so when he acts all robotic and "angel-y," I'm not interested.

 

The Winchesters were a bit dull in this episode, too. The "the brothers are keeping secrets from each other! oh noooooooes!" storylines need to stop. Newsflash:  they love each other unconditionally. So secrets/lies just lead to bickering, not any actual growth or change or even a real threat to their relationship. It's just boring at this point. 

 

I did enjoy the roadtrip with Rowena, though. Including them telling her "no!" in unison. Why didn't they have music playing (in the car)? Since Rowena is so old and so corny, I'm really curious about her taste in music and whether there would be any overlap with Dean's. For example, how does she feel about Black Sabbath? Or did they have music playing, but it just wasn't memorable?

 

I didn't like when they were interrogating that woman in the police station, though. I know they don't like witches and all, but the optics of them acting so threatening and double teaming this woman, while she was trapped in that interrogation room and genuinely terrified, just sucked imo. I don't really like seeing them acting wolfishly like that. Speaking of....

 

W/r/t that scene when Dean said "hey" to that woman on the street:  I think the idea was supposed to be that he was calling out to her because he wanted to ask her about Cas, but then he realized she was hot (maybe as she was blowing him off), and his attitude toward her changed. I think the execution didn't work...and also, the idea itself is kind of stupid. If he had actually had the chance to question her, and they had started vibing during the questioning, *then* I can see that kind of turn working. But as it was, it was kind of confusing and pointless (though I think the point actually was to show a little bit of levity, and to show that Dean isn't all doom-and-gloom anymore, now that he doesn't have the mark). Plus, catcalling someone on the street just isn't cute imo. Not a good look for anyone, including Dean.

[catrox14]

One thing I noticed about the cons recently is that fans are not asking as many show related questions of the boys and when the boys answered it seems like they can't, are unable or don't want to answer. It seems like they ask about their kids and the AKF campaign, and if the show ends what will you do. Like I was really surprised no one asked them about these first 3 episodes. Nothing about the stuff between Dean and Sam or Cas and Dean. I mean it's fun and cute but man ask about the show!

[bethy]

I wonder if that's an indication that people are much less invested in the show these days. Invested in the boys still, for sure, but not the show itself.

[catrox14]

Plus, catcalling someone on the street just isn't cute imo. Not a good look for anyone, including Dean.

Maybe the definition of catcalling has changed since my day, but that used to mean whistling, leering, harassing, making gross comments, etc. Dean didn't do anything like that. He said Hey as though he was going to ask her something, and she immediately said "get a life". He seemed more intrigued after that but that was it. I guess I just didn't see it as catcalling. But maybe Dean exudes such raw sexual energy that saying Hey is catcalling.

I wonder if that's an indication that people are much less invested in the show these days. Invested in the boys still, for sure, but not the show itself.

I dunno. Could be.

[rue721]

Maybe the definition of catcalling has changed since my day, but that used to mean whistling, leering, harassing, making gross comments, etc. Dean didn't do anything like that. He said Hey as though he was going to ask her something, and she immediately said "get a life". He seemed more intrigued after that but that was it. I guess I just didn't see it as catcalling. But maybe Dean exudes such raw sexual energy that saying Hey is catcalling.

 

Come on. Everyone knows why she would think he was hollering at her. A lot of people *here* assumed he was hollering at her.

 

The reason that Dean hollering at a woman on the street would be considered rude isn't because "Dean exudes such raw sexual energy."

[catrox14]

Come on. Everyone knows why she would think he was hollering at her. A lot of people *here* assumed he was hollering at her.

 

The reason that Dean hollering at a woman on the street would be considered rude isn't because "Dean exudes such raw sexual energy."

 

Clearly this is MMV thing. There has been a bit of disagreement here on what was happening. I was, in fact asking a genuine question because I have always consider "catcalling" to be something far worse than what Dean did here. I would not have thought, even back in my more beautiful youthful days, that just because a guy says 'Hey" to me that means he wanted to get with me or whatever.  We've seen Dean walk by pretty girls all the time and he checks them out but doesn't say anything to them. I'm not entirely sure of what you mean by 'hollering' at her but if you mean Dean was talking to her SOLELY for the purpose of flirting and engaging in a romantic/sexual way with her, I didn't see it that way.

 

Do you honestly believe that if she had stopped when he said 'Hey', that he was going to ask her out for a drink, ask for her number, completely forgetting about Cas, when he had been  frantically trying to find Cas right up to that moment? I sure don't

[SueB]

Remembering 'Clap your hands', I thought Dean was starting the 'Hey, how 'ya doing' pickup line. If you recall, he accused Soulless Sam of giving the waitress the silent 'Hey, how 'ya doing?' right in the middle of Deans existential crisis regarding aliens.

But Dean picking up a girl at that moment made no sense (he's in a rescue mission and the clock is ticking). So either: 1) about to ask if she's seen Cas, 2) a watered down catcall, 3) he actually thinks he has time to at least get her name, or 4) something else I can't figure out.

Edited October 26, 2015 by SueB

[Omegamom]

It would have made sense, and been more funny, IMO, if he had said, "Hey, seen a nerdy dude in a trenchcoat recently?", then she had given him the scornful look and the "Get a life!" line, as if she thought it was an awkward pickup line, and Dean was left to gesture futilely around, with a "what?!?" look.

So, in my head, that's what happened. What?!? I can do that, right?!? ;-)

[AwesomO4000]

You ever see that episode of Big Bang Theory where they have a scavenger hunt, and Howard and Amy are the only ones to have any fun due to bonding over their love of Neil Diamond?  I'd imagine Rowena would have thrown on a Taylor Swift song, and then she and Dean completely forget about what they were supposed to do, and just spend the entire time singing Taylor Swift songs and wind up at karaoke.

 

Poor Sam ; ) .

 

I didn't like when they were interrogating that woman in the police station, though. I know they don't like witches and all, but the optics of them acting so threatening and double teaming this woman, while she was trapped in that interrogation room and genuinely terrified, just sucked imo. I don't really like seeing them acting wolfishly like that. Speaking of....at he doesn't have the mark). Plus, catcalling someone on the street just isn't cute imo. Not a good look for anyone, including Dean.

 

I haven't done my rewatch yet, so I'll have to pay extra attention to this scene when I do. My first impression was that she was partially faking - or at least I was expecting her to be faking - and I was worried that she would try to throw some kind of spell at them.

 

As for Sam and Dean's attitude towards her because she was a witch - I kind of understood them on that. They had no patience for her lying at that point since they wanted to find Cas. Also neither Dean or especially Sam* have really had many good experiences with witches in the past. Either the witches know what they are doing - in which case they are working with a demon for power - or they are painfully naive. As of late, neither Sam nor Dean has as much sympathy for either of those scenarios as they used to, especially when someone they love is in danger.

 

* Especially with witches' propensities to curse him with venereal diseases (without even the benefit of at least having the fun part usually involved in getting them,) I don't blame Sam for disliking witches at all. (And thinking about not getting the "benefits." Poor Sam: his body has likely had more sex without him in it than he's had while in his body. Between soulless Sam, body-swapping teen manwitches, and who knows what Meg did while she was occupying him, I can only imagine.)

[Omegamom]

Soulless!Sam was a sex machine.

A very yummy sex machine.

But real!Sam? Hmm. Jess. Ruby. Madison. Kara. Amelia. Anyone else?

[catrox14]

 

I didn't like when they were interrogating that woman in the police station, though. I know they don't like witches and all, but the optics of them acting so threatening and double teaming this woman, while she was trapped in that interrogation room and genuinely terrified, just sucked imo. I don't really like seeing them acting wolfishly like tha

 

I really don't see what they did that was so wolfish. They interrogate everyone that way. They intimidate and threaten to get the information they need.   She's a witch! Who knows she was capable of doing. She could have cast a spell with just her words if she was lying. Why should the trust anything she said?

 

She's lucky they didn't gank her just on principle of being a witch.