Dean Winchester: aka Squirrel

[ILoveReading]

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I'll have to consider this a while, but the first thing that comes to mind is Dean being stabbed by Metatron in 9x23. The gasp/grunt and look of shock on his face, the sadness in his eyes as he realizes Sam is there and witnessed it. I can see it just by closing my eyes and I'll never forget it.

that was such an amazing moment and so hard to watch.

[Casseiopeia]

3 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

that was such an amazing moment and so hard to watch.

Ugh...I'm watching that episode right now on TNT.  I don't know if I'll be able to watch 'til the end.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Casseiopeia

[catrox14]

24 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I saw a clip with the music edited out and you could hear Dean breathing, and it really felt like you were intruding on a really private moment.  I was almost uncomfortable watching it. ). 

That was one of the finest moments of acting in this show. It was Dean at the last, IMO, praying and begging internally for Cas to wake up. It was beautiful. They dropped the music from the argument between Dean and Sam about Jack in 13.3. The music has become too intrusive IMO. Can you link that clip? I would love to see it.

[ILoveReading]

Just now, catrox14 said:

That was one of the finest moments of acting in this show. It was Dean at the last, IMO, praying and begging internally for Cas to wake up. It was beautiful. They dropped the music from the argument between Dean and Sam about Jack in 13.3. The music has become too intrusive IMO. Can you link that clip? I would love to see it.

Im not sure if I can find it again.  But I'll try. 

[gonzosgirrl]

I'll try to list moments that aren't already mentioned, though I agree heartily with all of them. :)

#2 The moment in the hallway after Dean has said goodbye to Lisa and Ben, post mind-wipe. It might've been one of the dumber plotlines, but damn if Jensen didn't rip my heart out with it anyway.

[gonzosgirrl]

#3 Those few moments between when Zach starts calling Michael down in 5x18 and when he decides to screw him over, culminating in the little wink.

#4 In 5x22 - The moments after Lucifer tells him he was just messing with him and "Sam is long gone" and "I told you, this would always happen in Detroit." Dean realizes it was all for nothing and he just turns in place, hands on his head.

[bozodegama]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

#3 Those few moments between when Zach starts calling Michael down in 5x18 and when he decides to screw him over, culminating in the little wink.

#4 In 5x22 - The moments after Lucifer tells him he was just messing with him and "Sam is long gone" and "I told you, this would always happen in Detroit." Dean realizes it was all for nothing and he just turns in place, hands on his head.

Those are two of my favorite moments too.  Another one I love is when Cass asks Dean to Swear allegiance to the angels.  Dean turns around, gives him a wtf look.  It'l like he's going against every instinct he's ever had to obey them but he does it anyway.  Then, he sees Bobby who asks him if he "willingly signed up to be the angels bitch."  God, so great from Ackles.  Any scene where Dean prays is always great.  

[Casseiopeia]

 

 

 

 

This is one of my favorite Dean moments.  Castiel betrays them in TMWWBK.  Dean is heartbroken but he can't let on that Castiel has just outed himself.  Then he puts his devastation aside and now Cas is in his crosshairs.  Just perfect non verbal acting from Jensen.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Casseiopeia

[catrox14]

12 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

 

 

 

 

This is one of my favorite Dean moments.  Castiel betrays them in TMWWBK.  Dean is heartbroken but he can't let on that Castiel has just outed himself.  Then he puts his devastation aside and now Cas is in his crosshairs.  Just perfect non verbal acting from Jensen.

I never thought he put Cas in his crosshairs as in wanting to kill him. but more that he was going to make sure he stopped whatever he was doing. (maybe I'm taking you too literally?)

[gonzosgirrl]

40 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

 

 

 

 

This is one of my favorite Dean moments.  Castiel betrays them in TMWWBK.  Dean is heartbroken but he can't let on that Castiel has just outed himself.  Then he puts his devastation aside and now Cas is in his crosshairs.  Just perfect non verbal acting from Jensen.

Oh this is a perfect example! He just sooo wanted them to be wrong about Cas. Watching Dean steel himself to gut-punches is heartbreaking but Jensen makes it hurt so good. 

[ILoveReading]

31 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Oh this is a perfect example! He just sooo wanted them to be wrong about Cas. Watching Dean steel himself to gut-punches is heartbreaking but Jensen makes it hurt so good. 

I've always said that no one does that "I'm fine" exterior but falling apart interior better than Jensen. 

[Casseiopeia]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

I never thought he put Cas in his crosshairs as in wanting to kill him. but more that he was going to make sure he stopped whatever he was doing. (maybe I'm taking you too literally?

I don't know.  I think Dean was going to do whatever he had to do.  I don't think he wanted to kill Cas in that moment but after Lisa/Ben and Sam he wasn't going to let Cas hurt anyone else no matter what.  All I know is that I wouldn't want Dean Winchester to look at me like that.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Casseiopeia

[catrox14]

On the Head of a Pin has some of Jensen's absolutely stellar wordless acting via body and face. Talk about your falling apart from the inside. When he learns he broke the first seal. It's almost just too much.

https://www.tumblr.com/tagged/on-the-head-of-a-pin

So shall it break.

This is a Emmy worthy performance from Jensen. 100%

 

 

 

[Casseiopeia]

59 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

On the Head of a Pin has some of Jensen's absolutely stellar wordless acting via body and face. Talk about your falling apart from the inside. When he learns he broke the first seal. It's almost just too much.

Both episodes written and directed (not sure about OTHOP) by Ben Edlund.  He wrote some of the best Dean episodes.  Jensen can make silk out of a sows ear but when he gets solid material to work with he rivals any actor in any category.

[bozodegama]

When he’s in the hospital and Cass. Is telling him how they laid waste to hell to get to him, Dean says ,”why didnt you just leave me there.”  It’s just the best acting, imo.  Then when Dean finds out that the angels want him to stop the apocalypse, he says, “Lucifer, The apocalypse.  It’s too big.  Find someone else.  I guess I’m not the man either  of our dads want me to be. “ (Paraphrasing).  Heartbreaking.  Great Dean moment among so many. 

[catrox14]

14 minutes ago, bozodegama said:

When he’s in the hospital and Cass. Is telling him how they laid waste to hell to get to him, Dean says ,”why didnt you just leave me there.”  It’s just the best acting, imo.  Then when Dean finds out that the angels want him to stop the apocalypse, he says, “Lucifer, The apocalypse.  It’s too big.  Find someone else.  I guess I’m not the man either  of our dads want me to be. “ (Paraphrasing).  Heartbreaking.  Great Dean moment among so many. 

The only reason I don't rate OtHoaP as my #1 all time ep is that the plot was a bit wonky if well presented. With THE END it's just stellar from beginning to end and the plot works (for me) anyway.  And in both cases they were IMO focused on Dean and Jensen was brilliant in both, yet still gave Cas and Sam important things to do in both episodes.  Man I love those episodes so damn much

[Wayward Son]

8 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

I don't know.  I think Dean was going to do whatever he had to do.  I don't think he wanted to kill Cas in that moment but after Lisa/Ben and Sam he wasn't going to let Cas hurt anyone else no matter what.  All I know is that I wouldn't want Dean Winchester to look at me like that.

Since we are shown Dean had clear murderous intent a few episodes later (he screams for Death to kill Castiel) I think it is reasonable to assume Dean was steeling himself up to kill Cas at that point. 

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

he screams for Death to kill Castiel)

That was Godstiel. Not regular Cas.  BIG difference.  Also, it wasn't "murderous intent". Godstiel was dangerous. The intent was to stop him from wreaking havoc on humanity. There was no "murderous intent" when Dean discovered Cas huge betrayal. 

Edited January 25, 2018 by catrox14

[ILoveReading]

4 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

Since we are shown Dean had clear murderous intent a few episodes later (he screams for Death to kill Castiel) I think it is reasonable to assume Dean was steeling himself up to kill Cas at that point. 

I disagree becasue at this point all Cas did was go behind their back and work with Crowley.  He hadn't knocked down Sam's wall, opened purgatory or ingested all the purgatory souls.  (Dean's not psychic) He was still Cas at that point.  Dean tried to appeal to him, when Cas showed up at Bobby's.  It turns the real reason Cas showed up was to steal something.  (Seems to be a pattern with him).  So Dean had every right to be angry at that point, but he didn't want to murder Cas.

He was devastated when he thought Cas was dead.  "Maybe angels don't need to breath."  You can see his face and whole body language change when Cas wakes up.  (Another great non verbal moment for Jensen). Even when Cas died, he took his coat and attempted to fold it like the flag of a fallen solider.  (Jensen's idea.  A story told in a meet and greet but the coat was to soggy to fold it properly).  Then he went on a drinking binge and into a depressive state and was having nightmares about Cas. 

Those aren't the actions of someone with murderous intent toward a friend. 

Edited January 25, 2018 by ILoveReading

[Myrelle]

I've always loved the look on his face after he decapitates the vampire in Bloodlust. It was the look of someone who was just so completely inured to all the violence in his life, even at such a young age. This was the episode that made me realize how wonderfully complex Jensen was capable of making his character. While Dead in the Water showed us the buried softer side of Dean, that scene in Bloodlust did just the opposite. And we knew why because of episodes like Something Wicked and IMTOD, adding to the undercurrent of sadness in episodes like Bloodlust. This show was really something for me back then, and in spite of the decline after S4, those episodes and the Dean scenes within them have never lost their luster for me. And, tbh, they've often saved a lot of these more recent ones, too-at least for me.

[Myrelle]

I'm watching the s10 premiere on TNT right now-and they just showed the scene where Dean kills Lester in the car. Talk about an example of that awesome facial Ackting, YOWZA!!-especially after Lester tells him to "get in there and do your job, you freak". YIKES!

[Pondlass1]

4 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

awesome facial Ackting, YOWZA

OMG - when he slowly turns to look at Crowley after telling him he killed Lester. That look! Jensen does cold and scary a bit too brilliantly.  I get shivers every time.

Too bad they'd written themselves into a karaoke corner with Demon Dean (not to mention he had to be cleaned up for Fan Fiction).  I always hang onto a tiny hope there's a residue of Demon Dean still in there and one day someone will push him a bit too far and it'll surface.  YUM!

[Sassyfangirl]

I love this thread! And I am a huge dean fan and Jensen fan. I still can’t believe he is 39 now and dean still looking hotter than ever:) I agree that dean Winchester is the best hero and character in the show. I have so many fav moments of dean. 

[Sassyfangirl]

I have been rewatching season 10 on TNT demon!dean was awesome! I just loved how Jensen plays him and the looks that he would give Sam in soul survivor gave me chills in a good way:) btw I love all of the dean gifs and picks here. 

[FlickChick]

On 1/25/2018 at 9:29 AM, Myrelle said:

I'm watching the s10 premiere on TNT right now-and they just showed the scene where Dean kills Lester in the car. Talk about an example of that awesome facial Ackting, YOWZA!!-especially after Lester tells him to "get in there and do your job, you freak". YIKES!

I mentioned that same thing somewhere. He's toying with Lester and even smiling, but after Lester calls him a freak, his eyes go completely dead. That is NOT the man anyone would ever want to see in a dark alley. :)

[Sassyfangirl]

I also want to say that I loved the dean and Anna scene and she was so lucky. There was nothing wrong with the dean sex:) plus we get dean back shot yumm. And I agree that cas has done some shady stuff and Dean had a right to be mad at him. 

[DeeDee79]

This is cute:

[gonzosgirrl]

2 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

This is cute:

The "Tell Me I'm Pretty".  LOL!

[DeeDee79]

15 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

The "Tell Me I'm Pretty".  LOL!

I liked The "Oh No You Didn't!" :)

[gonzosgirrl]

14 hours ago, catrox14 said:

It's a little slow but it picks up steam IMO about 1/2 through s1.

Apologies to those who don't watch This Is Us, which is what this post refers to. I was thinking about this show today, and why Jack appeals to me so much and I realized... I think Jack is what Dean would've been if not for the hunting life. Jack had a difficult relationship with his father, a brother (it appears) he couldn't save, struggles with alcoholism. But at his core, he's a truly good man who wrestles with his own demons, loves his kids above all else (sometimes to a fault), and always tries to do the right thing.

ETA: after seeing last night's pivotal TIU episode, I'm more convinced than ever.

Spoiler

Dean would totally go back into the fire for a dog if his little girl asked him to save it. Fight me.

Edited February 5, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[gonzosgirrl]

10 hours ago, trxr4kids said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpezyB6KeNEc

  I can't insert the video and it's pissing me off.

Borrowed from the Fan Fiction thread. Sure, it's a fan made compilation of moments, but the fact remains they are scenes and moments from canon. How can anybody legitimately say that Dean is repressed and/or doesn't share his feelings? He is the most emotionally available character on this show, despite his 'grumpy' facade.

[Myrelle]

44 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

11 hours ago, trxr4kids said:

 

Borrowed from the Fan Fiction thread. Sure, it's a fan made compilation of moments, but the fact remains they are scenes and moments from canon. How can anybody legitimately say that Dean is repressed and/or doesn't share his feelings? He is the most emotionally available character on this show, despite his 'grumpy' facade.

ITA. It's too bad that the writers and showrunners of this show continue to refuse to acknowledge that along with many other things concerning Dean's family and the damage that has been inflicted on him through his family ties.

Just this season, Dean agreed with Asmodeus(in disguise) when that character said that he "hated" his father even though he looked for approval from him also. And I can't even speak of Mary and her blasé attitude over the fact that Dean was never a child. And again, looking at this season, we've been shown Sam pressuring Dean into yet another parental role that he literally TOLD Sam he did not sign on for or want. It would be great television if they would take that somewhere. Oh, but wait, it's the character Dean, we're talking about here, so no in-depth character analysis necessary. I'd take this to the Bitterness thread or the writers' thread if I had the energy, but I don't.

That video made me so sad, for so many reasons. :-(

Edited February 5, 2018 by Myrelle

[gonzosgirrl]

17 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

ITA. It's too bad that the writers and showrunners of this show continue to refuse to acknowledge that along with many other things concerning Dean's family and the damage that has been inflicted on him through his family ties.

Just this season, Dean agreed with Asmodeus(in disguise) when that character said that he "hated" his father even though he looked for approval from him also. And I can't even speak of Mary and her blasé attitude over the fact that Dean was never a child. And again, looking at this season, we've been shown Sam pressuring Dean into yet another parental role that he literally TOLD Sam he did not sign on for or want. It would be great television if they would take that somewhere. Oh, but wait, it's the character Dean, we're talking about here, so no in-depth character analysis necessary. I'd take this to the Bitterness thread or the writers' thread if I had the energy, but I don't.

That video made me so sad, for so many reasons. :-(

I purposely put this here and not the BvJ thread because a) I legit am not comparing him with Sam and b) because despite the other characters' reactions (or non-reactions in Mary's case) to Dean expressing his feelings, he does. It's not the writers screwing Dean I'm questioning here, because (pre-Dabb) they actually gave him these words and scenes and Jensen killed them. What boggles my brain is how viewers can see Dean this way. We are given the omniscience to witness the scenes (like Dream a Little Dream Dean, or WIAWSNB Dean) that other characters aren't privvy to, so I can get, if not agree with, their interpretations of Dean's character.  But I do not understand how he can be seen as anything but perhaps too emotional and open to being hurt.

[Myrelle]

51 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

 

 

51 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

What boggles my brain is how viewers can see Dean this way. We are given the omniscience to witness the scenes (like Dream a Little Dream Dean, or WIAWSNB Dean) that other characters aren't privvy to, so I can get, if not agree with, their interpretations of Dean's character.  But I do not understand how he can be seen as anything but perhaps too emotional and open to being hurt.

They fall for and/or are fooled completely by the defensive façade he puts up. IOW, they refuse to/don't/won't/can't look deeper at the character-for whatever reason.

But ITA with your feeling that Dean is the character on the show who is the least emotionally stunted. And I further agree that we have been shown this through the writing, too, but for some reason, that aspect of the character has not merited as much in-depth writing as it did in the early days. And it's not like there isn't more to write about that aspect of him.

Edited February 5, 2018 by Myrelle

[catrox14]

25 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

  But I do not understand how he can be seen as anything but perhaps too emotional and open to being hurt.

I think it comes down to a matter of Dean being such a complicated and complex character who is given so many more layers in performance than the writing often shows that it's easy to overlook. 

I find that Dean is quite open with certain people and less open with others and he tells Cas things he doesn't tell Sam.  He tells Sam things he doesn't tell Cas. He has different levels of trust with different characters and what he can show. 

I think there is merit to the argument that Dean does have facades. He has bravado. He does IMO have a side that he doesn't show anyone. I think even Jensen said look at what Dean does when he's not around other people. I think he doesn't feel the need to be a big brother to Castiel nor is he the little brother to him either. IMO they are more or less on equal footing as best friends.  I think with Sam he must always be a big brother/father figure so he tries to cover up his emotions and vulnerability because he thinks it will make him unable to protect Sam. That's for better and worse depending on the situation.  And IMO, what Dean shows and what he says to particular people may not always mesh which neither makes him a liar nor a manipulator nor a controlling jerk. Most human beings show different things to different people.

He shows his bravado and snark when an enemy has him captured. He's probably scared and brave too.  With some he's not scared at all and is very much snarking because he knows he'll get the upper hand eventually. The stuff with Alastair in OTHoAP is brilliant because Dean absolutely in no way wants to do what he was being made to do because he's afraid of what it will do to him.  That it will turn him into that awful thing in Hell he wants to forget but really can't.  He puts on both a true and IMO bravado act with Alastair because he must. I don't find it really inconsistent but pretty darn human.

And IMO, it's that part of Dean that has shaded who he is after Hell.  He said he can never make up for torturing souls in Hell, no matter how many people he saves, so I think he is always living with a certain mask because of that. I don't think he's really resolved any of that TBH. He just keeps living as best he can. 

[gonzosgirrl]

13 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

They fall for and/or are fooled completely by the defensive façade he puts up. IOW, they refuse to/don't/won't/can't look deeper at the character-for whatever reason.

See, I get this for why Sam or Cas or Mary don't understand him, but we, the viewers, don't need to see past the facade, they show us his underbelly - it's right there on the screen and in the dialogue. As @catrox14 mentioned, Jensen says look at what Dean does when he's not around other people. We are able to see that - so I just don't understand how he can be seen as this insensitive, closed off guy. And more often than not, he's made to reveal these emotions to the other characters as well, and still 'they' persist with this stereotype, too.

[Res]

2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

See, I get this for why Sam or Cas or Mary don't understand him, but we, the viewers, don't need to see past the facade, they show us his underbelly - it's right there on the screen and in the dialogue. As @catrox14 mentioned, Jensen says look at what Dean does when he's not around other people. We are able to see that - so I just don't understand how he can be seen as this insensitive, closed off guy. And more often than not, he's made to reveal these emotions to the other characters as well, and still 'they' persist with this stereotype, too.

I believe that it does depend on the view and their favorites as well as who they identify with. For instance, I see everything that you are saying which is why I love Dean so much and I identify with him so well. But I was always made to be the strong one growing up. My parents were always there for my brothers but expected me to be fine on my own even when I wasn't. I had to put on a facade to hide my feelings and problems to the point where I stopped crying for over 20 years. I was the peacemaker, family fixer, etc. and never got anything but cutting criticism for not being better. So yeah I identify and understand how you can actually not be an actual person to your parents until they want you to be, which is generally much too late. 

OTOH I don't identify with Sam because I was never the golden child who received all the sympathy, etc. So I don't see Sam the way the show wants me to. I see him as my little brother who always manipulated my parents to blame me because even if it was his fault something happened it became mine in my parent's eyes. 

So there is that for one.

Then secondly, there is also those who believe the "tell" over the "show". I believe in the "show" over the "tell". For instance, I never saw MoC!Dean as out of control until after Prisoner but they had been "saying" he's out of control until he finally was. More like self-fulfilling prophecy. So since the show tells you, more than once, Dean's a dick and it even has DEAN saying it, well, then Dean's a dick. Even though he really wasn't.

Lastly, you would have to actually see Dean as an individual character unto himself and not exclusively in relation to his relations to other cast members in order to actually care about Dean himself. The writers have gone back to Kripke's original formula where Dean is just an useless extension of Sam that sometimes drives him around. Sam only sees him as his older bossy brother, as most younger brothers see their older siblings, so his fans tend to see Dean the same way. Cas sees Dean as a friend and human mentor for human things which he occasionally fails at despite his best intentions. Dean is caught between different concerns sometimes between Sam and Cas whose problems are a lot of times above his pay grade. So when Dean chooses Sam over Cas, Cas fans talk about what a cold person Dean is to do such a thing to him. 

And much like it is with the shippers, Dean is the most stuck in the middle critisized character because he interacts with everyone while, honestly, IMO, no one cares how any interaction affects him. After all, he's the one being all "bossy" (even though he's desperate, frustrated and scared to death), barking out orders, saying, "It's a dictatorship." so screw him. That's all they care about because he's affecting their favorites negatively.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

ETA: WE all do this. It's human nature. We just don't tend to do it to Dean.

Edited February 5, 2018 by Res
Clarification

[DeeDee79]

23 minutes ago, Res said:

That's all they care about because he's affecting their favorites negatively.

This, so much! Most of the complaints that I've read online about Dean are in regards to something that he did/said to Sam or to Cas. They don't have a clear opinion on the character outside of his relationships as you've perfectly summed up.

[Myrelle]

On ‎2‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 1:46 PM, Myrelle said:

They fall for and/or are fooled completely by the defensive façade he puts up. IOW, they refuse to/don't/won't/can't look deeper at the character-for whatever reason.

 

On ‎2‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 2:04 PM, gonzosgirrl said:

See, I get this for why Sam or Cas or Mary don't understand him, but we, the viewers, don't need to see past the facade, they show us his underbelly - it's right there on the screen and in the dialogue. As @catrox14 mentioned, Jensen says look at what Dean does when he's not around other people. We are able to see that - so I just don't understand how he can be seen as this insensitive, closed off guy. And more often than not, he's made to reveal these emotions to the other characters as well, and still 'they' persist with this stereotype, too.

 

21 hours ago, Res said:

I believe that it does depend on the view and their favorites as well as who they identify with. For instance, I see everything that you are saying which is why I love Dean so much and I identify with him so well. But I was always made to be the strong one growing up. My parents were always there for my brothers but expected me to be fine on my own even when I wasn't. I had to put on a facade to hide my feelings and problems to the point where I stopped crying for over 20 years. I was the peacemaker, family fixer, etc. and never got anything but cutting criticism for not being better. So yeah I identify and understand how you can actually not be an actual person to your parents until they want you to be, which is generally much too late. 

OTOH I don't identify with Sam because I was never the golden child who received all the sympathy, etc. So I don't see Sam the way the show wants me to. I see him as my little brother who always manipulated my parents to blame me because even if it was his fault something happened it became mine in my parent's eyes. 

So there is that for one.

Then secondly, there is also those who believe the "tell" over the "show". I believe in the "show" over the "tell". For instance, I never saw MoC!Dean as out of control until after Prisoner but they had been "saying" he's out of control until he finally was. More like self-fulfilling prophecy. So since the show tells you, more than once, Dean's a dick and it even has DEAN saying it, well, then Dean's a dick. Even though he really wasn't.

Lastly, you would have to actually see Dean as an individual character unto himself and not exclusively in relation to his relations to other cast members in order to actually care about Dean himself. The writers have gone back to Kripke's original formula where Dean is just an useless extension of Sam that sometimes drives him around. Sam only sees him as his older bossy brother, as most younger brothers see their older siblings, so his fans tend to see Dean the same way. Cas sees Dean as a friend and human mentor for human things which he occasionally fails at despite his best intentions. Dean is caught between different concerns sometimes between Sam and Cas whose problems are a lot of times above his pay grade. So when Dean chooses Sam over Cas, Cas fans talk about what a cold person Dean is to do such a thing to him. 

And much like it is with the shippers, Dean is the most stuck in the middle critisized character because he interacts with everyone while, honestly, IMO, no one cares how any interaction affects him. After all, he's the one being all "bossy" (even though he's desperate, frustrated and scared to death), barking out orders, saying, "It's a dictatorship." so screw him. That's all they care about because he's affecting their favorites negatively.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

ETA: WE all do this. It's human nature. We just don't tend to do it to Dean.

 

 

21 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

This, so much! Most of the complaints that I've read online about Dean are in regards to something that he did/said to Sam or to Cas. They don't have a clear opinion on the character outside of his relationships as you've perfectly summed up.

RES and DEEDEE answered your question in more detail and with better clarity(thanks for the help!) than I was trying to with my own short bolded words above, Gonzosgirrl. The bolded parts of each are key, IMO.

Edited February 6, 2018 by Myrelle

[ILoveReading]

I once again have to give Jensen so many props for his non-verbals in this one.   The difference between Dean in the first half the ep and the 2nd was night and day.  Once Dean had the spell on him, all his cares just seemed to melt away.  He was light, and happy, and had a spring in his step.   Jensen looks like he had fun with it.  I will give props to Yockey because under the spell I felt like I was laughting with Dean rather than at him.  That was all becasue Dean got roofied trying to help someone.

He was so excited to be bringing the book to Jamie and Jennie.  

You could also see the minute the spell was lifted all the weight of the world descended back onto his shoulders.   In that last scene, the little touch of icing his leg was good to see(that poor knee.  While I would like to see Cas heal it, Im sure it will be fine by the start of the next episode).   You could also tell Dean's trying to keep a brave face for Sam, while still struggling with his own burdens and that he doesn't really believe what he's saying. 

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

That was all becasue Dean got roofied trying to help someone.

That almost makes it worse for me. That the goodness of Dean's heart was used against him. Is this metaphor of Dean's life? Could that be it?

[tessathereaper]

11 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

That almost makes it worse for me. That the goodness of Dean's heart was used against him. Is this metaphor of Dean's life? Could that be it?

Wow that is true.  Dean's good heart and purity of motive is so often used against him.

[gonzosgirrl]

I would love to ask Jensen if icing the leg was in the script. Even money says it was his idea.

ETA: I tweeted @ Yockey and Tapping to ask - who knows, maybe they'll answer! :)

 

ETA: no answer, but no surprise - they tend to only respond to people who are stroking their egos.

Edited February 7, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[Myrelle]

6 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

You could also tell Dean's trying to keep a brave face for Sam, while still struggling with his own burdens and that he doesn't really believe what he's saying. 

Yeah, this was really evident in the last scene, when Sam went off to bed, after Dean had tried to reassure him that they would figure it out together. So subtle.

And I also loved when he shook his head "No." when Sam asked him if he remembered Becky. So friggin' funny. :-D

[DeeDee79]

Great rebuttal in regards to fans who buy into the "Sam is the brains, Dean is the brawn" bullcrap: https://thejabberwock.tumblr.com/post/171169874682/im-not-saying-deans-stupid-but-what-evidence-do

Edited February 23, 2018 by DeeDee79

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

Great rebuttal in regards to fans who buy into the "Sam is the brains, Dean is the brawn" bullcrap: https://thejabberwock.tumblr.com/post/171169874682/im-not-saying-deans-stupid-but-what-evidence-do

I don't think fans buy into so much as the show seems to push that notion.

[DeeDee79]

Just now, catrox14 said:

I don't think fans buy into so much as the show seems to push that notion.

I beg to differ! Most Dean fans don't buy into it but there are plenty of fans ( from what I've skimmed throughout Tumblr ) that think this. I personally thought that this was a good read which is why I posted.

[catrox14]

12 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

I beg to differ! Most Dean fans don't buy into it but there are plenty of fans ( from what I've skimmed throughout Tumblr ) that think this. I personally thought that this was a good read which is why I posted.

I didn't say it wasn't a good read or unimportant. Sorry if I offended. I wasn't protesting the post, just saying I think the show itself perpetuates some of the Sam is smart, Dean is dumb themes....I think it's more that Dean is less "scholarly" and more street/practical intelligence with a side of "book learnin" and Sam is almost exclusively book smart with a side of weapons knowledge and both can hack computers. I don't think Sam could fix a car if his life depended on it.Just saying that I think fans defend Dean's intellect more than the show does.  I'm saying that I think the show perpetuates a division of intellect between Dean and Sam.

Edited February 23, 2018 by catrox14

[Wayward Son]

Just now, catrox14 said:

I didn't say it wasn't a good read or unimportant. Sorry if I offended. I wasn't protesting the post, just saying I think the show itself perpetuates some of the Sam is smart, Dean is dumb themes....I think it's more that Dean is less "scholarly" and more street/practical intelligence with a side of "book learnin" and Sam is almost exclusively book smart with a side of weapons knowledge. I don't think he could fix a car if his life depended on it.Just saying that I think fans defend Dean's intellect more than the show does.  I'm saying that I think the show perpetuates a division of intellect between Dean and Sam.

I’m not looking to get into a bitch vs jerk style debate about who is better at what. I’m conceding from the start Dean’s the better mechanic. However, werent we shown a few scenes in season 3 where Dean taught Sam about fixing cars? He meant it in preparation for Sam having to do it on his own once Dean was dead. While I’d say Dean would fix a car more efficiently and expertly than Sam. I personally think “Sam couldn’t fix a car to save his life” is a bit of an exaggeration. 

[DeeDee79]

8 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

I’m not looking to get into a bitch vs jerk style debate about who is better at what. I’m conceding from the start Dean’s the better mechanic. However, werent we shown a few scenes in season 3 where Dean taught Sam about fixing cars? He meant it in preparation for Sam having to do it on his own once Dean was dead. While I’d say Dean would fix a car more efficiently and expertly than Sam. I personally think “Sam couldn’t fix a car to save his life” is a bit of an exaggeration. 

I'm sure that Catrox wasn't making a dig at Sam; which is why she prefaced it as being a personal opinion. Quite frankly IMO, this is how BvJ debates seem to get started on these forums. 

11 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I didn't say it wasn't a good read or unimportant. Sorry if I offended. I wasn't protesting the post, just saying I think the show itself perpetuates some of the Sam is smart, Dean is dumb themes....I think it's more that Dean is less "scholarly" and more street/practical intelligence with a side of "book learnin" and Sam is almost exclusively book smart with a side of weapons knowledge and both can hack computers. I don't think Sam could fix a car if his life depended on it.Just saying that I think fans defend Dean's intellect more than the show does.  I'm saying that I think the show perpetuates a division of intellect between Dean and Sam.

 

All good! I like seeing positive posts about Dean and wanted to share. Also, the rebuttal was in response to a fan that did seem to think that Dean wasn't all that smart. Not looking for a co-sign; just thought that others might enjoy the read.

Edited February 23, 2018 by DeeDee79