S21.E08: Famous Dances

[ocelot]

No, I don't think he deserved 10s, but I saw remarks that indicated that there was no reason he shouldn't be able to do a lift, since he's such a seasoned pro. I was just saying that his effort/faltering didn't surprise me. Pro dancer doesn't necessarily equal "adept at every move," and I don't think he should be criticized* for having a weakness. I agree that he and Bindi should have gotten a lower score because of it. 

 

* And by "criticized" I mean that his weakness should negate any of the good talents he has. I don't consider saying "this was weak and he showed some difficulty" as a criticism, only as a statement

True, I was just wondering if we've ever seen Derek do even a pirouette on the show? He doesn't seem at all flexible either. I'm gonna go back and look at his contemporaries now and try to catch a glimpse of his feet. He is a pure latin/ballroom dancer, even though some of his fans want to act like he is a master in all styles of dance.

[McManda]

Sharna is actually trained in Disco. I don't think any of the other pros are.

 

Really? I did not know that. I also didn't realize that one could train in disco. I assumed it was a club dance and not something with a set of rules and such. (Although I guess that's how all dances really started, especially latin dances, so I'm not sure why this surprised me like it did.)

[Andie1]

.

Back in the day when Disco was in its prime, ballroom pros would master the club dances and then teach them to supplement ballroom dance. Sharna was probably the beneficiary of lessons from a pro on club dance. Then you have club dance pros like the Schwimmer family. Lacey Schwimmer was often criticized about her ballroom dancing, but she is the best pro in terms of Disco, Hustle, Lindy and Swing and Salsa - no one can touch her. She's fearless and she learned really intricate technique from her champion parents

Edited October 22, 2015 by Andie1

[Andie1]

No, I don't think he deserved 10s, but I saw remarks that indicated that there was no reason he shouldn't be able to do a lift, since he's such a seasoned pro. I was just saying that his effort/faltering didn't surprise me. Pro dancer doesn't necessarily equal "adept at every move," and I don't think he should be criticized* for having a weakness. I agree that he and Bindi should have gotten a lower score because of it. 

 

* And by "criticized" I mean that his weakness should negate any of the good talents he has. I don't consider saying "this was weak and he showed some difficulty" as a criticism, only as a statement

Absolutely, ballroom pros aren't expected to do lifts, however this show asks ballroom pros to do show dancing and as such they are pushed into areas they may not have had a lot of previous training. Derek has been praised for his work that is not ballroom, so it is a little surprising that now he tells the audience of his weakness where it never was an issue in the past. If Bindi is 10 worthy it should be on her own merit, not a series of "Hey overlook this because she's adorable but has loser core strength and I'm not sure I can cover" He screwed up an awkward lift with Nicole on the freestyle back in season 10, but didn't see the need to announce it before hand. He subsequently took responsibility for it, but after the scores were given. I respect that more than this farcical manipulation

[EyewatchTV211]

All these videos from SCD are making me want to go back and rewatch routines with Pasha, another SYTYCD favorite who is now a pro on SCD. I wish we had gotten him on DWTS.

[sidwich]

True, I was just wondering if we've ever seen Derek do even a pirouette on the show? He doesn't seem at all flexible either. I'm gonna go back and look at his contemporaries now and try to catch a glimpse of his feet. He is a pure latin/ballroom dancer, even though some of his fans want to act like he is a master in all styles of dance.

 

I don't remember seeing Derek do a pirouette on the show.  But then I don't remember seeing Peta, Anna or Karina doing pirouettes either, and each of them have pretty significant ballet training.  (You can see Sharna doing a double pirouette in the early Mary Poppins opening choreography, but It looks like Charlie struggled with getting it off and it didn't make it to the final show).

 

 Mark has done double tours on the show, and I think Derek has done those as well.  And though it's fuzzy, you can see Derek doing a pirouette in this video from when he was in Footloose (as well as some of those other fancy pants ballet steps.)  :)

 

[exodia]

https://instagram.com/vincentnoiseux

 

Another SYTYCD import to the show - this time from the Canadian version.  He and his partner were my absolute favourites ftw that year; they did some awesome dances.

 

Bit of more trivia, One of the other extra troupe dancers, Shannon Holtzapffel was also a judge on SYTYCD Australia. 

[Andie1]

I need to hunt up some of the Ballroom that Vincent did on SYTYCD Canada.  I must confess that I couldn't take my eyes off him in any of the numbers he danced in on Monday night.  If the show wants to add him to the troupe next season for some cross-training in Ballroom (and possibly as an eventual pro if he's even halfway-decent in Ballroom), I certainly won't object.

I am sure he has some cross training but that first season of Canada SYTYCD was an embarrassment of riches in at least 2 ballroom trained males, Francis and Danny so a lot of the ballroom was concentrated with them. He did do a kick ass Disco with Arrasay and I hope to find it on line but a lot of this season has been taken down. He partners beautifully, he is French Canadian and a lot of those guys have at least some ballroom training

[tarotx]

Didn't Derek do a pirouette in the opening number this week? Near the end? It's kind of one any way....

True, I was just wondering if we've ever seen Derek do even a pirouette on the show? He doesn't seem at all flexible either. I'm gonna go back and look at his contemporaries now and try to catch a glimpse of his feet. He is a pure latin/ballroom dancer, even though some of his fans want to act like he is a master in all styles of dance.

Edited October 22, 2015 by tarotx

[St. Claire]

The bottom line for me is that there were too many 10s handed out on Monday. I enjoyed most of the dances, but I've spent a decade railing against how dances with significantly noticeable mistakes get perfect scores. If the judges want to base their rating purely on aesthetics, the structure of the show needs to change. (Not that I'm advocating that the show changes to a purely "artistic" score with no consideration for the actual technical aspects of each performance; I think that would decrease the impact.) This is why I miss Len; he would explain elements that are expected within a dance and that the absence of proper execution of those elements meant a lower score.

[ocelot]

Didn't Derek do a pirouette in the opening number this week? Near the end? It's kind of one any way....

 

Yeah and just to be clear he has no technique. He's not on an even slight releve? That looked about on par with Riker's pirouettes from his jazz with Allison. Also when I googled he did a 'pretty impressive triple pirouette' in his audition tape that they showed last season, where you just saw him from like the waist up so like feet? alignment? positioning? turnout? releve? plie? who knows but he fell out of them (literally wobbly and off balance from the start) and his arms and posture are bad so I'm not sure how that's impressive. link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MpOUUFsqZI

 

to be fair, it doesn't look like he's being serious about it, and the audition tape is pretty cute, and it's actually kind of adorable how he laughs at his past self at that part.

Edited October 22, 2015 by ocelot

[ocelot]

I don't remember seeing Derek do a pirouette on the show.  But then I don't remember seeing Peta, Anna or Karina doing pirouettes either, and each of them have pretty significant ballet training.  (You can see Sharna doing a double pirouette in the early Mary Poppins opening choreography, but It looks like Charlie struggled with getting it off and it didn't make it to the final show).

 

 Mark has done double tours on the show, and I think Derek has done those as well.  And though it's fuzzy, you can see Derek doing a pirouette in this video from when he was in Footloose (as well as some of those other fancy pants ballet steps.)  :)

Thanks for the link he's a little better in that one!! 

but 0:48 seconds kills me this is what that was supposed to look like http://t-h-e-d-a-n-c-e-b-l-o-g.tumblr.com/post/22304157862/ricky-ubeda unless he was going for like a breakdancing thing??

 

From what I've read Derek seems to take it upon himself to learn these types of things and I doubt most male ballroom dancers could do even what he did, so even though he disliked ballet class he can still execute a pirouette even if it's not with great technique.

Edited October 22, 2015 by ocelot

[realdancemom]

The bottom line for me is that there were too many 10s handed out on Monday. I enjoyed most of the dances, but I've spent a decade railing against how dances with significantly noticeable mistakes get perfect scores. If the judges want to base their rating purely on aesthetics, the structure of the show needs to change. (Not that I'm advocating that the show changes to a purely "artistic" score with no consideration for the actual technical aspects of each performance; I think that would decrease the impact.) This is why I miss Len; he would explain elements that are expected within a dance and that the absence of proper execution of those elements meant a lower score.

Yes, I think Tamar and Nick should have been the only ones with a perfect score.  Nick didn't even get a perfect score since CAI gave him a 9.  Andy's dance was good and I actually liked Allison's choreography.  But they weren't always perfectly synchronized and there were other mistakes.  Even if you don't take points off for lifts in Bindi's rumba since they were trying to follow the original, I didn't see a rumba either.  I didn't see any hip action.  Don't remember if anybody else got perfect scores.

[crowceilidh]

I don't think I would have given anyone perfect scores.  Nick was great because he was doing some fundamentally difficult things with his body, but he still looked a little awkward (Geez - who wouldn't - he put his all in, but you almost have to be born to the kind of cockiness that dance requires).  Tamar's dance seemed much simpler to do, but I still saw moments of fumble, slightly miffed turns that should have been sharp etc.  Allison and Andy's was really feel-good because they brought the fast energy it requires, but there were out of sync moments (just think how Alfonso and Witney would have done that) and it was charming, but for me, it didn't have quite the sense of cool that the dance requires.  And Bindi was supersweet in that, but you can't just pretend the lift went really well and there were other fumbly little glitches too.  

[realdancemom]

I agree that Nick needed to have more swag and Tamar needed to be sharper.  I wrote that in my original critique of all the dances.  I should have clarified that if I was going to give perfect scores, those are the two that I would give them to.

 

In my original critique, I also mentioned that Derek was struggling with that iconic lift.  Bindi also didn't look like a beautiful swan up there.

Edited October 22, 2015 by realdancemom

[Andie1]

I think this is the problem of having to measure non-dancers for the most part against iconic dances. People know what to look for because they know why they loved a dance in the first place. I'm not sure that this is as successful overall for the viewer.  It's like the season 11 when they tried a re-dux of great Dancing with the Stars dances that had been successful seasons past.  It's a difficult task for pros, its really unfortunate for non-dancers to get it perfect.  It is always better in my mind to be your own trailblazer.  

[Padma]

Bindi and Derek worked hard, but that lift really didn't suit her (kudos for him for making it through--sheer willpower, you could see).

 

It wasn't that I like Paula--and she's often so gross--but for some reason, she entertained me and I enjoyed she picked up the energy level. That said, I didn't understand what Louis' plan was this week--to end his misery ASAP?  Paula did what she was asked to -- walk around, hit her marks and raise and lower her arms as choreographed--but below her shoulders no "dancing" was happening. I don't know Madonna's tv performance but I'm positive she didn't move like that. Her time was up, clearly, but it's too bad she couldn't go out with a fun "character" dance. That one was just strange.

[Serendi]

Just rewatched Madonna's Vogue video; she did other stuff *too*, but for part of it, Paula's moves really do echo the video.