S08.E04: What Lies Beneath

[Driad]

COTW was fine. I had hoped it would rejuvenate Castle's network of authors, but that's what I get for hoping.

I would have preferred it if the case had actually delved more into a writer's world than that of pathological liars.

Basically I agree with both of these.  I started watching because of the writing aspect, and still hope it will come back.  Not a shipper.  

 

 

 

[verdana]

Had a re-watch:

 

The church was pretty.

 

I love Susan Sullivan, I liked the way Kate seemed so touched by her reaching out, she continues to be sorely underutilised.

 

Thank God there is no BTS issues to worry about between Stana's and Martha's respective wigs, both seem to get on just fine, no ego trips no issues over appearing together in the same shot, chemistry was good. 

 

I like that Beckett so obviously cares for her boys.

 

Castle's inability or unwillingness to consider what drove Kate to walk out and his ongoing obsession with 'winning her back' is bewildering for a guy with an enquiring mind who is all about the bigger picture. The arc has created two obsessions - Kate's for justice and Castle's for pursuit of regaining something he thinks he's lost. I hate it when they make characters dumb to service the plot and both are looking very foolish indeed. 

in that corridor scene with Espo and Ryan, it was so dark the boys seemed to be followed by Godzilla or BigFoot. Some huge dark shape.

LOL that's exactly what it looked like, I kept trying to tilt my screen this way and that to see if it got better - it didn't.

 

Castle putting a tracker on Espo was played for fun but it didn't sit well with me upon reflection. Risking Ryan's career and Castle pretending it wasn't an issue felt wrong and Ryan is also betraying Beckett's trust. If he wanted to genuinely help Ryan he could ask him to do some tech work for him with his business instead since Tory has vanished.

 

Alexis and Castle in hot pursuit...or not. I don't want to laugh at these characters I want to laugh with them. Please no more running scenes with Molly or Nathan, neither looks good and further highlights the stupidity of their detective capers and since when did Alexis go to stake outs? Okay Espo and Ryan were there but still, where's the parental concern?  It's disappeared along with Castle's ability to "read" his wife.

 

I like the boys much better this season, their partnership is going way better and is much more enjoyable right now than anything I've seen with Castle and Beckett.

 

Watching Beckett say goodnight to Castle as he dutifully walks off still none the wiser, how by this point he hasn't blown his top and demanded to know what the fuck is going on with her I just don't know. 

 

Beckett and Vikram are the new dynamic duo only they can bring down Locksat! The oh so serious "now we can get to work" at the end as Castle made for the exit door made me eye roll.  I so don't give a shit about her super secret investigation and that's a big problem for me.  I want to care because I continue to hold affection for the characters even if the writing is crap but I can't manage it, this story doesn't capture my imagination. It's like I've already been down this road with Kate once why the hell do I want to go back down it again? 

Edited October 13, 2015 by verdana

[oberon55]

 

Castle's inability or unwillingness to consider what drove Kate to walk out and his ongoing obsession with 'winning her back' is bewildering for a guy with an enquiring mind who is all about the bigger picture. The arc has created two obsessions - Kate's for justice and Castle's for pursuit of regaining something he thinks he's lost. I hate it when they make characters dumb to service the plot and both are looking very foolish indeed.

 

The thing about it is not only is Castle's plan pathetic it does not make sense. The whole time they were together they worked with each other & she left. So his brilliant plan is "I will do exactly the same thing I was doing when she left me & she will come back. It can't fail."

[CastleSeason8]

I'm going to admit that I'm not married, so I'm asking you married folk if you've ever been in a position where:

1. You walked out on your spouse with no explanation except that you needed to work things out but neglect to tell them what it is.

2. They beg you to tell them what's wrong. To go to counseling. They'll do anything to take you back. You tell them to back off.

3. They don't back off. You know their life is in danger by working with you, but you don't put your foot down. In fact, you send mixed signals. You touch them affectionately. Look at them affectionately. Tell them you love them. Encourage them with your actions as you tell them to stay away.

I really want to know. Because is these are the normal actions of a loving, caring person in a loving, caring relationship, then I don't think I'd ever want to be married. I would never want to be lied to and manipulated to this degree.

Well i can tell u, i have been with my spouse for 30 years and if they did that to me i would demand answers and if all i got repeatedly was "its complicated" and "its on me" i would be gone and not be back unless they came to me.

[TWP]

Had a re-watch:

 

The church was pretty.

The broken stained glass window was heartbreaking ;-),

 

Thank God there is no BTS issues to worry about between Stana's and Martha's respective wigs, both seem to get on just fine, no ego trips no issues over appearing together in the same shot, chemistry was good.

Small favors ;-).

 

I like that Beckett so obviously cares for her boys.

Truly touching

 

Alexis and Castle in hot pursuit...or not. I don't want to laugh at these characters I want to laugh with them. Please no more running scenes with Molly of Nathan, neither looks good and further highlights the stupidity of their detective capers

Are they deliberately portraying them as "Keystone Cops?"  Just need a Klown Kar ;-).

 

I like the boys much better this season, their partnership is going way better and is much more enjoyable right now than anything I've seen with Castle and Beckett.

I've always thought that if they explored these two characters in a non-stupid way, the result would be watchable.  The notion came true last night.

 

Watching Beckett say goodnight to Castle as he dutifully walks off still none the wiser, how by this point he hasn't blown his top and demanded to know what the fuck is going on with her I just don't know.

That was terrible television....although Nathan employed the facial expressions and mannerisms I used to like from Seasons 1-4.

 

Beckett and Vikram are the new dynamic duo only they can bring down Locksat! The oh so serious "now we can get to work" at the end as Castle made for the exit door made me eye roll.  I so don't give a shit about her super secret investigation and that's a big problem for me.  I want to care because I continue to hold affection for the characters even if the writing is crap but I can't manage it, this story doesn't capture my imagination. It's like I've already been down this road with Kate once why the hell do I want to go back down it again?

But Verdana, you don't understand ;-).  Be kind to Cap'n Beckett.  She has Wallz (2.0). Inanimate objects like wigs, phones and Wallz are key characters in this show.  Thankfully, they all get along with each other ;-).

 

I loved Martha too, although the scene was supposed to leave us wanting more.  The TV shows that I have "functional" relationships with are the ones that at least occasionally give the viewers everything they want.  This show never does...and they wonder why fans sometimes get a little crazy. It's them, not us.

Edited October 13, 2015 by TVWithPity

[VinceW]

There's a difference between 'you don't tell your spouse everything' and leaving your marriage without an explanation and expecting your partner to take you back at the end of it.

 

He's already been married twice, I struggle to understand where the patience comes from. The mentality of 'winning her back' defies reality.

The way Beckett is acting so far would put her in a much darker light if she actually knew that Meredith cheated on him in his second marriage and she still chose to leave him without any explanation.

[VinceW]

I enjoyed the Castle, Ryan, Espo interaction and comedic scenes, but all of the Caskett interaction at the precinct reminded me of the AU/wedding episode.  Poor Castle seems so lost over what is happening to his marriage and he doesn’t know how to fix it except the annoying ‘win her back’ mentality. It presents that 3 episodes (8x3,8x4,8x5) of this kind of writing seems the limit for providing much of a reason for fans to keep watching. It is hard to imagine watching 18 more episodes with the writers keeping them from living together which means the separation lasted longer than their actual time period together as a married couple.  I was glad to hear Martha mention Castle’s previous divorces to Beckett, but she just seemed to dismiss it with her assurance that there would be no divorce. After that confirmation in the script, why not just skip watching until May sweeps?  A person in her kind of emotional state makes for a sad story, but I don’t sense that the facts presented allow for the audience rooting for them as a couple in any meaningful way rather just a lot of frustration with the poor story decision. The heroin connection tracking by Beckett must mean that the big bad is in NYC which suggests something might happen very soon that gets Castle involved with the case and Beckett finally realizes that both of them are in danger by keeping the case and the relationship apart. For myself, that is the only reason I would keep watching LIVE past the fall hiatus.

Edited October 13, 2015 by VinceW

[femmefan1946]

He's already been married twice, I struggle to understand where the patience comes from.

I get that. Castle is a people pleaser.

He is still friends with his ex-wives. Until he and Beckett got together, he hooked up with both of them well after the marraiges ended.

He 'knows a guy" everywhere, using his charm to make and keep friends.

It's just not in him to hold grudges.

And he knows he is charming and has relied on that to get his way (successfully) for most of his adult life.

 

But he's really got to sit down and write some more books. Mysteries are disposable, he can't rely on the income from them the way the victim/author did from one book. (Which only paid, I gather, because it is on school curricula.)

[ZingerCaskett]

I enjoyed the Castle, Ryan, Espo interaction and comedic scenes, but all of the Caskett interaction at the precinct reminded me of the AU/wedding episode.  Poor Castle seems so lost over what is happening to his marriage and he doesn’t know how to fix it except the annoying ‘win her back’ mentality. It presents that 3 episodes (8x3,8x4,8x5) of this kind of writing seems the limit for providing much of a reason for fans to keep watching. It is hard to imagine watching 18 more episodes with such a contrived story keeping them from living together which means the separation lasted longer that the time period they were married. I was glad to hear Martha mention Castle’s previous divorces to Beckett, but she just seemed to dismiss it with her assurance that there would be no divorce. After that confirmation in the script, why not just skip watching until May sweeps?  A person in her kind of emotional state makes for a sad story, but I don’t sense that the facts presented allow for the audience rooting for them as a couple in any meaningful way rather just a lot of frustration with the poor story decision. The heroin connection tracking by Beckett must mean that the big bad is in NYC which suggests that something happens very soon which gets Castle involved and Beckett realizing that both are in danger by keeping things secret from him. For myself, that is the only reason I would keep watching LIVE past the fall hiatus.

If things stay the way they are week after week after week it would be boring as hell until May.   However, I'm thinking of  8x01 and 8x02 as the opening act.   Not all the pieces were there.   8x03, 04, 05 and 06 are supposed to fill in the blanks until  8x07 and 08...where something happens that changes things up again.    Yeah, November sweeps too.    Then we have something to obsess over the holidays until February Sweeps where we have more of the shakeups.    Then we get into the March and April episodes which set up the finale...which will probably be the series finale.   ABC will market the heck out of it when that happens.      Watching Castle got a lot less stressful for me once I started looking at it as more than a love story, but rather a TV series whose prime function is to generate revenue for ABC.

I enjoyed the Castle, Ryan, Espo interaction and comedic scenes, but all of the Caskett interaction at the precinct reminded me of the AU/wedding episode.  Poor Castle seems so lost over what is happening to his marriage and he doesn’t know how to fix it except the annoying ‘win her back’ mentality. It presents that 3 episodes (8x3,8x4,8x5) of this kind of writing seems the limit for providing much of a reason for fans to keep watching. It is hard to imagine watching 18 more episodes with the writers keeping them from living together which means the separation lasted longer than their actual time period together as a married couple.  I was glad to hear Martha mention Castle’s previous divorces to Beckett, but she just seemed to dismiss it with her assurance that there would be no divorce. After that confirmation in the script, why not just skip watching until May sweeps?  A person in her kind of emotional state makes for a sad story, but I don’t sense that the facts presented allow for the audience rooting for them as a couple in any meaningful way rather just a lot of frustration with the poor story decision. The heroin connection tracking by Beckett must mean that the big bad is in NYC which suggests that something happens very soon which gets Castle involved and Beckett realizing that both are in danger by keeping things secret from him. For myself, that is the only reason I would keep watching LIVE past the fall hiatus.

I'm glad someone is mentioning Rick's previous divorces....Really makes that line "I've been married three times, I know what I'm doing"...kinda sad, huh?

[Brit Babe]

There is not much more to be said about this episode than last week. The only positive was Martha and maybe that little teasing scene from Beckett on the phone about how Castle and Alexis could not catch a 60 year old. Other than that? Nada.

I still don't understand why Castle thinks he needs to win her back, dude, she's not even sure why she's doing it. Just get onto you attorney already and get a divorce.
 
Molly continues to be a weakest link being shoved down our throats, whomever thought that more Alexis was a good idea in terms of character and actress need their heads examining.
 

Watching Molly Quinn trying to run anywhere is a painful experience and I wish they'd stop making her do it, I might laugh if they gave her a cape.

Please no more running scenes with Molly or Nathan, neither looks good and further highlights the stupidity of their detective capers

Yes to this. I said back on 8x01 thread, there were two horribly edited shots of Alexis running towards the camera and it was so embarrassing.
 
 

There's a difference between 'you don't tell your spouse everything' and leaving your marriage without an explanation and expecting your partner to take you back at the end of it.
 
He's already been married twice, I struggle to understand where the patience comes from. The mentality of 'winning her back' defies reality.

 I wish he would stop saying things like, she laughed at me that means she likes me. Of course she does, she married you, although she married that other guy as well so maybe he has a point. lol.

[KaveDweller]

If things stay the way they are week after week after week it would be boring as hell until May.   However, I'm thinking of  8x01 and 8x02 as the opening act.   Not all the pieces were there.   8x03, 04, 05 and 06 are supposed to fill in the blanks until  8x07 and 08...where something happens that changes things up again.    Yeah, November sweeps too.    Then we have something to obsess over the holidays until February Sweeps where we have more of the shakeups.    Then we get into the March and April episodes which set up the finale...which will probably be the series finale.   ABC will market the heck out of it when that happens.      Watching Castle got a lot less stressful for me once I started looking at it as more than a love story, but rather a TV series whose prime function is to generate revenue for ABC.

Yeah, I agree. If you accept the idea that it's a TV show where drama and angst are required, it becomes easier to accept some of the crappy story lines without hating the characters.

I don't think we'll stay in the holding pattern all season. I think something's going to happen in the mid season finale or the returning episode to switch things up. I'm guessing that will be Castle finding out about everything.

[ZingerCaskett]

Well i can tell u, i have been with my spouse for 30 years and if they did that to me i would demand answers and if all i got repeatedly was "its complicated" and "its on me" i would be gone and not be back unless they came to me.

I've been with my spouse for 20, friends for 30....and if he did that to me when I knew that 1.  he was a member of law enforcement and 2. had gotten 5 of his previous co-workers killed  then I would think that this was definitely PTSD related and that something was up that he wanted to protect me from.    I would listen when my spouse told me that he loved me and that our separation wasn't my fault.    I would look out for myself and let him know that my door was open if he wanted to share, but that I was going to move on with my life.   

 

I would love to see Rick speak up for himself.   He's done it before,  (3x23, 4x23, 5x23)   I hope to Gawd we don't have to wait until 8x23 to hear him speak up this time. 

[ZingerCaskett]

Yeah, I agree. If you accept the idea that it's a TV show where drama and angst are required, it becomes easier to accept some of the crappy story lines without hating the characters.

I don't think we'll stay in the holding pattern all season. I think something's going to happen in the mid season finale or the returning episode to switch things up. I'm guessing that will be Castle finding out about everything.

Its no accident that Ryan is now working for Rick on the side.   He's going to be a big help in this, I think.

[oberon55]

Yeah, I agree. If you accept the idea that it's a TV show where drama and angst are required, it becomes easier to accept some of the crappy story lines without hating the characters.

 

My problem is that once the strings become this visible I have a hard time enjoying the puppet show. Every episode since the breakup whenever I see them together I'm not appreciating the scene. I'm thinking who the hell would act this way & what the hell is going to interrupt them this time. This is just about the lamest idea for a series reset I can remember.

[verdana]

I don't think we'll stay in the holding pattern all season. I think something's going to happen in the mid season finale or the returning episode to switch things up. I'm guessing that will be Castle finding out about everything.

Or us finding out something about Castle....

 

I'm convinced the Castle mythology is set to come into play at some point and just prior to the break would be a good juncture to shift things into a higher gear. 

[verdana]

My problem is that once the strings become this visible I have a hard time enjoying the puppet show. 

Same here, I know that it's the writers job to basically manipulate an audience and the good ones do it amazingly well but I don't want to have it thrust in my face that I am being manipulated, like you I don't care to see the strings and that's what it feels like what's happening here. I know every time they start talking there will be a handy interruption, I knew before the episode even aired that Kate would ignore Martha's advice (or anyone else's for that matter) and she will continue to do so for a set number of episodes, I know Castle will remain equally oblivious and so on. The characters aren't allowed to behave naturally, it's all done to an obviously prescribed pattern and check list they have up in that writers room. It requires me to suspend all logic and I can't do that, if the story was more fulfilling and better written then I could in some way, there's lots of things I've hand waved in the past in TV and movies because the writing and performances were so good but not with this because it's poorly plotted. 

Edited October 13, 2015 by verdana

[KaveDweller]

About Castle not just immediately divorcing Beckett, I think it's as simple as him loving her. You don't just fall out of love with a person because they do something you don't like. And he confirmed with his "cry for help" line that he's worried about her. It would be out of character for him to just walk away without trying to get her to come back. That's not to say he shouldn't be angry when he finds out the details, but I don't think it's pathetic of him to still care about her and want to save his marriage.

Now what is out of character is that he can't figure out this has to do with Locksat. I mean someone tries to kill her and kills several other people because of her, including Bracken. But he doesn't know what's wrong?

[Cyranetta]

 

I want to care because I continue to hold affection for the characters even if the writing is crap but I can't manage it, this story doesn't capture my imagination.

I find these so-called "light" episodes hard to appreciate, because I can't enjoy the lightness with the Uberconspiracy weighing it down, and I can't appreciate the Uberconspiracy part, because it's stupid. Moments like the Beckett-Martha scene or the improved Esposito-Ryan scenes are like very small islands of solid ground in the quicksand.

[pcta]

Beckett's clothes must cost $. Couldn't they have gotten Castle a suit with better cut and fit - jacket was too short and tight.

Other than that, I still would prefer a show sans B.

Edited October 13, 2015 by pcta

[verdana]

Castle Recap: Secrets and Liars by Matt Mitovich at TV Line

 

Speaking of Ryan, whose wife Jenny is expecting their second kid, and who already moonlights: This episode introduced the fact that Rick is slipping his former cohort $500-a-week to feed him leads on their murder cases. Rick defended the arrangement by arguing that Ryan isn’t trading in state’s secrets, but still — a bit icky, right?

 

Agree with Matt it was "icky". In my job I'd get fired and even face further prosecution depending on the information involved.

 

About Castle not just immediately divorcing Beckett, I think it's as simple as him loving her. You don't just fall out of love with a person because they do something you don't like. And he confirmed with his "cry for help" line that he's worried about her. It would be out of character for him to just walk away without trying to get her to come back. That's not to say he shouldn't be angry when he finds out the details, but I don't think it's pathetic of him to still care about her and want to save his marriage.

Now what is out of character is that he can't figure out this has to do with Locksat. I mean someone tries to kill her and kills several other people because of her, including Bracken. But he doesn't know what's wrong?

 

Oh he's definitely in love but he needs to get angry about the situation at some point the longer this goes on, that's a natural human reaction I would expect to see for him to remain so easy going about things for weeks on end would be unbelievable to me.

 

As for him not being able to piece things together that it has something to do with these events that's inexplicable given what we know of his character as previously established. 

Edited October 13, 2015 by verdana

[VinceW]

Or us finding out something about Castle....

 

I'm convinced the Castle mythology is set to come into play at some point and just prior to the break would be a good juncture to shift things into a higher gear. 

I think you are right. Something will be set in motion which balances out Beckett keeping secrets. That will allow Castle to take a lot of the viewer grief for her actions. Otherwise, some effort would be needed to explain away her irrational emotional behavior at the start of the season. Much like what happened with the proposal at the swings, where Castle spoke up and quickly asked her to marry him before Beckett said anything about the job offer which had resulted in her looking so selfish in Watershed by lying and keeping the job interview secret. Marlowe further explained away her behavior at the start of 6x1 by putting the onus on Castle to explain why he wanted to marry her no matter what before she could even tell him if she was going to take the job. Instead, she just said I "got the job". The Castle disappearance must be what the producers keep talking about as the new dynamic to explain away keeping them apart.

Edited October 13, 2015 by VinceW

[CastleSeason8]

Totally agree. They have to "even the score" blah blah

[verdana]

The Castle disappearance must be what the producers keep talking about as the new dynamic to explain away keeping them apart.

I can see them keeping them apart for most of the season, especially if ratings remain relatively stable. Kate finds out something about Castle that knocks her back (when they'll have been teasing steadily that Beckett was on the verge of confiding in him and they would reconcile) it's the perfect way to reset their dynamic and have the focus swing firmly back on to Castle and put the pressure on, they can either have a huge row (similar to the one in Always, remember Hawley loves s4) and it all comes out or they're each left keeping secrets from the other. 

Edited October 13, 2015 by verdana

[VinceW]

I can see them keeping them apart for most of the season, especially if ratings remain relatively stable. Kate finds out something about Castle that knocks her back (when they'll have been teasing steadily that Beckett was on the verge of confiding in him and they would reconcile) it's the perfect way to reset their dynamic and have the focus swing firmly back on to Castle and put the pressure on, they can either have a huge row (similar to the one in Always, remember Hawley loves s4) and it all comes out or they're each left keeping secrets from the other. 

Not sure the viewers will be patient enough to wait the whole season with so much ongoing angst. My hope is that something happens which forces Beckett to realize that both of them are in danger if kept apart regardless of the reason for his disappearance which seems more likely related to the CIA given the new stepmother involvement. 

[oberon55]

I can see them keeping them apart for most of the season, especially if ratings remain relatively stable. Kate finds out something about Castle that knocks her back (when they'll have been teasing steadily that Beckett was on the verge of confiding in him and they would reconcile) it's the perfect way to reset their dynamic and have the focus swing firmly back on to Castle and put the pressure on, they can either have a huge row (similar to the one in Always, remember Hawley loves s4) and it all comes out or they're each left keeping secrets from the other. 

 

Remember this quote about a whole host of secrets between Castle and Beckett. I think we have seen just the tip of the awful iceberg that this season can become.

 

 

But Hawley says it's most important to have the conflict come out of character. As such, the two-part season opener brings back Senator William Bracken (Jack Coleman), the man responsible for the murder of Beckett's mother, which leads to a whole host of secrets between Castle and Beckett. "Relationships getting challenged is what makes relationships stronger, and at the end of the day, I think it's healthy for them and for the show to just poke at them a little bit,"

[verdana]

Thanks Oberon. Yeah that's just what we need inserted into this relationship more secrets heh.

 

Castle Brasil ® ‏@CastleFanaticBR  4h4 hours ago
Kate Beckett's signature 8x04 "What Lies Beneath" - via Andrew Bikichky. #Castle

https://twitter.com/AndrewBikichky/status/653968948627542016

Signed on a Police Investigation Report. 

Edited October 13, 2015 by verdana

[TWP]

The Castle Mythology versus the Beckett Mythology = The Mr. and Mrs Smith analogy of 5x07 title "Mr. and Mrs. Castle".

Edited October 13, 2015 by TVWithPity

[turnitwayup]

I'm loling at Officer Matt Parkman at the bottom of the page since that's who Greg Grunberg played on Heroes. Plus the salesman in the written report is Noah Bennet aka Jack Coleman.  Guessing someone in props is Heroes fan or worked on the original run.

Edited October 13, 2015 by turnitwayup

[CastleSeason8]

Amen!

[KaveDweller]

That's my point. Castle isn't going on with his life. He's allowing Kate to lead him around by his family jewels. 

 

She's giving mixed messages. Go away given with googly eyes and loving touches. 

 

Castle is alternately savvy when they need him to be and Three-Stooges clueless when they need him to be.

 

That he can't realize:

 

a. Beckett is still in love with him and doesn't seem to be upset in any way about him or anything he's done and

b. This all happened immediately following a case where the bad guy got away...after he killed a bunch of people she felt responsible for...

 

Per an interview with Hawley and Winter, Castle doesn't think that the bad guy got away, he thinks Alison Hyde was the end of things.  It's still really dumb that he couldn't figure out a connection though.

[TWP]

Even my husband, who could care less about Caskett, was extremely irritated about the split while watching tonight. It wasn't about the split, it was about the house of cards they raised to do it. Then (insert this thread).

I did not influence him.

When you've lost him, you've lost really, really casual viewers. He doesn't read TV forums. He doesn't obsess about TV shows.

IMHO, the Castle - Beckett split will go down as one of the biggest mistakes ever on TV.

[FlickerToAFlame]

I agree, I think they've "Felicity haircut" the show.

[GoGiants]

Another episode I could've enjoyed if it didn't have the pall of the break up hanging over it. Truly disappointing because at this point I've yet to rewatch a S8 episode. That's my usual test and so far no rewatches for me.

I hated that coffee scene at the end. Could not stand it. Watching them slip into the old S1-4 style subtext with this totally warped coffee symbolism was not endearing or fun. It served as a glaring reminder of everything wrong in the Castle universe right now. It was sad and infuriating. Hearing Castle say the coffee didn't mean anything and Beckett admitting a meaningless lie, when her massive lie still needs to be revealed was gag worthy. Also, where Castle said "you might not need me anymore" regarding the secret coffee ingredient, utterly horrifying. Yes, we know show runners, they love each other (because you guys say so!). But seriously, that was the moment to drop the subtext and make it clear that, yes, Beckett still loves, respects and needs her husband in a normal, adult fashion. Subtext was annoying at times pre-couple but in this scenario it's maddening.

I didn't love everything about S7 but I am missing the couple towards the end of the season who were "backing each other's plays". They were strong and I mistakenly assumed the days of subtext were behind them. Because that's the way married, mature grown ups typically behave. Sadly, with a few tweaks we could be watching the same S8 episodes with that strong couple attacking this Locksat garbage. Instead we are treated to this parody version of marriage and two usually likable characters devolving into empty shells that parrot the same lines about "it being complicated" and "winning her back".

Also, I will add my complaint to everyone else's about the fact that Castle (and everyone else) would have been smart enough to figure out what Beckett was up to about 5 seconds after she walked out. It makes the entire cast of characters look beyond dumb. Annoying to see them subvert what we are supposed to know about Castle and others just to push forward a tired and ill conceived plot.

[Chado]

Even my husband, who could care less about Caskett, was extremely irritated about the split while watching tonight. It wasn't about the split, it was about the house of cards they raised to do it. Then (insert this thread).

I did not influence him.

When you've lost him, you've lost really, really casual viewers. He doesn't read TV forums. He doesn't obsess about TV shows.

IMHO, the Castle - Beckett split will go down as one of the biggest mistakes ever on TV.

Even my direct family (watch the show but don't get involved in the 'online' aspect) are really confused as to why Beckett is still at the 12th solving cases with Castle.

 

That confusion isn't even a little thing, it's the entire premise they are trying to sell us with why Beckett has left her marriage.

[LisaM]

Have really enjoyed Castle for years but something is off this year. I could barely sit through this latest episode.

 

Really liked Martha/Beckett talk and don't mind Alexis the Wonder P.I. Cracked up at the blind priest running down the street.

 

Did not like anything else - which is a real shame.

[TWP]

The Melanie Atkins/Lee Lofland review:

 

My favorite quote, after suggesting that the tired on the couch/horrible coffee line might signal a possible pregnancy -- and how could she be supercop and pregnant:

 

 

Think about it, how could she go off on secret missions to find everyone and anyone who possibly wronged her mother—the kids on the playground who wouldn’t let her play freeze tag, a dime store clerk who once overcharged her for gum, the company that made the ugly lipstick color that clashed with all of her best outfits, and, of course, the evil meanies who wanted her dead. It’s an old storyline. It’s tired. It’s a dead horse that no longer requires beating. So yeah, #killBeckett.

 

#killBeckett.  As long as showrunners are playing with the show, may as well.  They can always bring her back, saying that the deceased is an evil twin or something.

[ksb]

#killBeckett

 

As cheesy as it could have been, for me, faking her own death would have worked so much better than the groundbreaking alternative I have to sit though every week this season thanks to my itunes season pass.

 

Castle would have been heartbroken first, then furious, once he found out about it. After learning that it was the only way to keep him save, they could have slowly reconnected and the contrived  fake UST scenes we see right now would have actually made sense. 

 

The more episodes are out there the more I wish one or both leads had walked away after season 7.

 

 

[roamyn]

I was freaking bored to sleep with this episode. Literally. Hubby had to keep waking me up. I think it was the COTW. I had no interest in the victim whatsoever.

Since I lean more toward Espo, I was really pissed abt Ryan's lies abt the Sgt exams, since Espo was the one who pointed it out. Thank goodness Beckett had reserved a place for both, and brought the bromance back together.

I also wasn't happy with his willingness to sell inside information to Castle. That could cost him a promotion or his job, if anyone found out.

ETA: Martha needs a spin-off.

Edited October 14, 2015 by roamyn

[KaveDweller]

#killBeckett.  As long as showrunners are playing with the show, may as well.  They can always bring her back, saying that the deceased is an evil twin or something.

 

I seriously think killing Beckett would have been even worse than what we are getting now. 

[verdana]

#collegeforAlexis

#sergeantRyan

#sergeantEspo

#wakeupCastlethisisanightmare

#talkingwounds

#sneakdetectorsrock

#Lanieforpresident

 

I laughed at Lee's list at the end, I completely agree with the first one and Lanie for President heh. 

 

As for Beckett faking her death why not? Fanfic has covered that and it would make far more sense than the tripe I'm getting served up to right now. 

Edited October 14, 2015 by verdana

[cali1981]

This bit with Captain Ahab, er, Beckett on this obsessive hunt for her personal while whale is getting old.  Kate, if you really think that your pathological need to chase this case to the ends of the earth could put you husband and his family (yours too by the way) in mortal danger, for pete's sake let it go. The show has lost a lot of the charm that made it so enjoyable.  I hope that this is resolved very soon

[femmefan1946]

ETA: Martha needs a spin-off.

OOOH!

There's not much on TV for us oldies-- too young for Murder She Wrote reruns and too old for Agents of SHIELD.

The life and times of a senior actor and all her elderly friends, as they search for work and love in New York, Los Angeles, Vancouver, London....

Call Mindy Kaling-- she'd know how to get it done.

The list of sponsors might be a bid depressing, Depends, Viagra, Buick, Carnival Cruise Lines.

OH!

Come next year, the Cuban Tourism Association. Move over St Petersburg, mamma is ready to rhumba!

 

 

 

I take it back. No one is too old for Agent Coulson. Sigh.

[TWP]

ETA: Martha needs a spin-off.

OOOH!

There's not much on TV for us oldies-- too young for Murder She Wrote reruns and too old for Agents of SHIELD.

I'm old enough that I saw Murder She Wrote when it first aired -- and really liked it then.  It's not watchable now for some reason.

 

I'm too old for Agents of Shield, but still young enough for the Muppets.  Go figure.

[roamyn]

ETA: Martha needs a spin-off.

OOOH!

There's not much on TV for us oldies-- too young for Murder She Wrote reruns and too old for Agents of SHIELD.

The life and times of a senior actor and all her elderly friends, as they search for work and love in New York, Los Angeles, Vancouver, London....

Call Mindy Kaling-- she'd know how to get it done.

The list of sponsors might be a bid depressing, Depends, Viagra, Buick, Carnival Cruise Lines.

OH!

Come next year, the Cuban Tourism Association. Move over St Petersburg, mamma is ready to rhumba!

I like ur idea better than mine: I was going to have her star in a new soap, All the Days of My Children's Lives .

[MaryM47]

Guessing someone in props is Heroes fan or worked on the original run

 

There is also a reference on that form to an "Odessa Warehouse," so also a Heroes Reborn fan. 

[Bubbi63]

I wasn't going to watch but then against my better judgment I watched and am sorry I did.  I think the writers or show runners underestimated the fans reaction to the break up.  No need for me to say anything about that as you all have summed it up well.

All the stand alone "fun" episodes are marred by the dark cloud of the break up.  Ratings adjusted down to a 1.1 according the grim reaper--that's the new name for tv by the numbers?  Anyway--my question is this--given the show runners have said this is a season long story line with a twist and turn here and there--does anyone think they may pull a Marlow and get them back together as Marlow did the wedding in S7 in order to stop the bleeding?

A long winter break will be no friend if they go without them being back together--as a long break makes it easier to break away and not come back. Thanks

[CastleSeason8]

I think their minds are made up. I dont think the story will change, no matter the outcry or ratings. They truly believe they are right in this great story they are telling. Fans be dam*ed

[CastleSeason8]

I think they're pleased people are so angry. I'm sure they feel somehow they've "won" by pissing off the fans.

I think they thought this episode in particular would show just how awesome their plan was, and we'd see how perfect the Castle "Win Kate Back" plan was going to be.

But they'll settle for pure, unadulterated hatred, since they've made it clear making the fans happy is none of their concern. Because it's not like they need people to watch the show or anything.

It's been said many times that the online reaction has nothing to do with Real Life reaction. Well, if real-life reaction is lower ratings, then all of the online uproar should not have any bearing on anything. But they're reveling in everyone screaming over it, because people are talking about it.

I agree with you, and this isnt a sarcastic question - am interested, why do you think they keep asking fans to hang in there, be patient, or whatever. Do you think they are at all concerned? Im torn on that. Dont think it will change the story, but wonder if they miscalculated the backlash.

[verdana]

I've seen fans saying that one of the reasons Kate left Castle is because she had to be away from him to investigate the case properly and she couldn't do that around the house because he would quickly catch on that she was up to something.

 

This argument is as flawed as any of the rest of the excuses I've seen trotted out to explain her illogical decision to walk out on her husband.

 

What exactly has Kate done since she moved out over this Locksat business?  She's a made some phone calls at the precinct, she has a few files made up and had a short meeting or two with Vikram ALL of these things she could easily have fitted around her day job given she's Captain, has her own office so can keep things private and can seemingly come and go as she pleases without Castle knowing a thing about it given he's off doing his PI work. It's just her and Vikram on the case so the idea she needs to move out to enable her super secret activities to go undetected is laughable. 

 

Kate's motivations for leaving are ridiculous. The whole thing is stupid, they've tried to fudge it but most fans can see through it and are quite rightly taking the writers to task over the sheer inanity of it all. 

Edited October 16, 2015 by verdana

[grannygeek]

Castle repeatedly saying, ad nauseum, that he needed to win Kate back

 

Oh Word, SweetTooth, Wordy-word.  How many times did he repeat that, 6? more?

When Castle re-runs come up in the afternoon on syndication TV I am charmed and often let one or two roll through before turning off my set. But this ponderous, anvillicious crap makes it hard to hang in there, and compares so poorly to earlier seasons.