S08.E03: PhDead

[WendyCR72]

When the body of a local college fraternity student is found gruesomely murdered, Castle has to go undercover as a professor in order to gain access to the victim's world. However, he and Beckett soon discover that behind the fun and games of college are some darker secrets the university wants to keep hidden.

[McManda]

This would have been a pretty good episode if it wasn't colored with this dumb Castle/Beckett split.

 

It frustrates me because I don't see the why in Beckett's motives, other than her need for justice. But she's literally picking between her personal life and her need for answers - even though if she just left things alone she'd be fine - and I thought she had been able to move past that. It's making her character look obsessive and ... weak ... and they can't even pull at the personal heartstrings with the story about her wanting justice for her mom. I still hope they move that story along quickly.

 

And I just feel sorry for Castle because he's confused about the whole thing and why Beckett left and if he did something wrong.

 

There are moments a like a lot, like in the jail, where if feels reminiscent of S1/S2/S3, but I think that's because they're supposed to be poignant and not played for humor. I wish they had tried that without splitting Castle and Beckett up, because then maybe they'd have hit the jackpot.

[Chado]

Agree with most of what you said McManda. The writing and structure of episode is good but it's hard to really get on board because Castle is intentionally being left in the dark, and you can tell he is heartbroken in the end scene.

 

You can see Beckett struggling with it, but it's a false choice that she is making so it's hard to really sympathize with her in any way. She is putting her marriage last, and you just hope that she sees what she is doing to Castle and realizes he won't always be there.

 

It sucks that we probably won't see a change from this dynamic for months.

[pepper]

As weak as the premise is for separating Castle and Beckett, I have to disagree that there is no way to revive UST. I think it works. Sure, the reason they're separated is stupid, but the actors totally sell the still in love thing.

 

I've been reading the tidal wave of negativity in response to the first two episodes, and as someone who was 100% unspoiled, it was a shocker. It was also not convincing and I thought they should have left it as Beckett on the run if they wanted to separate them, since there was no trigger powerful enough to make the character regress to the point where she gave up her hard-won happiness. Or perhaps if they'd had her trapped in a dungeon with the bodies of her former colleagues, or had them beg her to avenge them - something to scar her psyche... But never mind. I've moved on - perhaps evidence that I'm nowhere near as invested as I used to be in the show,,,

 

And here we are... post-sexual UST. What a concept. Love and longing on both sides, except now they say it. Bad writing where the emotional equivalent of a passionate kiss is now interrupted by Plot! in thoroughly unconvincing ways, (verdana will love this even more than the interrupted kisses!) yet they've re-booted the UST. But I'm not giving the writers credit for that, though. It's all in the acting. And if anyone wants to suggest that the actors can't stand each other etc. etc. I don't care. I've put my brain on hold and I shall enjoy this (probably final) season in all its fluffiness, especially when Esposito pretending to be a college student gets called on being 40 and Ryan gets called on having hair growing out of his ears... and Castle has gadgets and Beckett is ignoring her rank and acting like a detective and Alexis is now so middle-aged that she's a connoisseur of... fine Scotch.

 

So yeah, I liked it. Just probably not for the reasons the writers intended.

[KaveDweller]

I enjoyed all the scenes where Caskett was together.  I liked them talking about things and feeling drawn to each other in that jail cell, I really felt that they were in love, despite the current situation, and I felt the angst they seem to be feeling.

 

Everything else was boring.  I can't even think of anything else to say about it, except that I don't trust Vikram.  

[Lamb18]

This episode was mostly stupid until the very end which brought tears to my eyes. It would have been funny pre-engagement but it was kind of a farce with everybody being parodies of themselves. Espo was really showing his age when he pretended to be a college student.

[Mittengirl]

So I am supposed to believe that tiny slip of a girl is strong enough to impale a man on a tree branch? No. Not happening. None of the female suspects looked strong enough to accomplish that. Try again, writers.

[McManda]

As weak as the premise is for separating Castle and Beckett, I have to disagree that there is no way to revive UST. I think it works. Sure, the reason they're separated is stupid, but the actors totally sell the still in love thing.

 

I see the post-UST UST, but like you said, it's the acting, not the writing. I still think the premise for the whole thing is dumb, and it's mostly because I can't get behind the decisions Beckett is making. Maybe they'll fix that for me down the line, but right now I don't see it as her trying to protect Castle like I wanted her to want to protect him.

 

She's not protecting him from being killed or from some external source, despite what she's telling herself. I see it as her wanting to protect him from her bad decisions because she can't let things go and allow herself to be happy. And in the meantime, she's left him confused and heartbroken because he thinks it's his fault she up and left. It's not the UST I wanted to see, at least not at this point in their relationship. Maybe back in S4 or S5.

 

I do like determined Castle, and I like the idea of him wanting to woo her again. I just wish it were under better circumstances, because I just don't get Beckett's character right now.

[moodyblue]

If I can ignore/forget the reason why Castle and Beckett are no longer together, I would probably like it more than I did. I thought Ryan and Espostio were the highlight of the episode for me, and I liked that the first person they interviewed was not the killer, BUT....

 

I watch the show to watch Castle and Beckett(with Ryan and Espo) do the detecting; I don't watch it for Castle and Alexis. With that said, Alexis was tolerable, although still a perfect 40 year old woman. Beckett's hair is bugging me for the first time ever while watching the series, and while the scenes between Castle and Beckett were nice, I can see them becoming repetitive week after week if the future episodes are anything like tonight's.

[McManda]

Beckett's hair is bugging me for the first time ever while watching the series,

 

Me too, but I think it was because they didn't lighten Stana's eyebrows to match Beckett's light(er than Stana's) hair.

 

I think my favorite part of the episode was Beckett stalking away from Hudson University because Castle was buying his way into a professorship and Ryan and Espo ask her what's wrong and she replies that Castle is there. They kind of stop and throw their hands up in the air and then scurry to catch up with her. Poor Ryan and Espo, they're like kids caught in mom and dad's separation.

 

Nice to see Tamala got to do more than just spout lividity lines.

[WendyCR72]

They went to Hudson University - and lived to tell about it?! L&O, L&O: CI, and L&O: SVU have shown repeatedly that Hudson University is the quickest gateway to hell!

[oberon55]

 

Nice to see Tamala got to do more than just spout lividity lines.

 

Yea this was such a heartfelt & touching exchange between supposed best friends.

 

Beckett "I just hope I haven't hurt him too much"

 

Lanie; "Girl please. Castle is a grown ass man & he know you love him very much. I'm sure he's ok."

[KaveDweller]

I think my favorite part of the episode was Beckett stalking away from Hudson University because Castle was buying his way into a professorship and Ryan and Espo ask her what's wrong and she replies that Castle is there. They kind of stop and throw their hands up in the air and then scurry to catch up with her. Poor Ryan and Espo, they're like kids caught in mom and dad's separation.

 

 

I thought that was amusing too.  I also liked the part when Beckett showed up at the crime scene, walked away to do whatever, and Espo looked at Lanie all, "Go after her and get the dirt."

 

Yea this was such a heartfelt & touching exchange between supposed best friends.

 

Beckett "I just hope I haven't hurt him too much"

 

Lanie; "Girl please. Castle is a grown ass man & he know you love him very much. I'm sure he's ok."

 

Lanie has been terrible at giving advice/support to Beckett for years now.

[Chado]

Lanie doesn't even know what Beckett is doing, that scene was strange to me. You would imagine Lanie would be completely against it if she knew.

[McManda]

If I'm Tamala, I'm not questioning what I get to say, I'm just thankful that it's more than "time of death" and "lividity".

[pcta]

So, you all actually still like the Beckett character? You don't find her a self involved, bitch? You still feel Caskett is viable relationship?

[KaveDweller]

Lanie doesn't even know what Beckett is doing, that scene was strange to me. You would imagine Lanie would be completely against it if she knew.

 

Everyone would be against it.  This is the second episode in a row where someone has flat out told her that if she would just let things go she could be happy. And those people aren't even her friends.

 

So, you all actually still like the Beckett character? You don't find her a self involved, bitch? You still feel Caskett is viable relationship?

 

I don't think she's a self involved bitch at all.  I think she is making a huge mistake and don't like her actions, but I think the character and relationship could be salvageable.

Edited October 6, 2015 by KaveDweller

[moodyblue]

So, you all actually still like the Beckett character? You don't find her a self involved, bitch? You still feel Caskett is viable relationship?

 

Yes, I still like Beckett. No, I don't think she is a self-involved bitch, and yes, I think Caskett is still a viable relationship for a television show. That doesn't mean I like what Beckett has done, but I don't hate her for it.

[Chado]

So, you all actually still like the Beckett character? You don't find her a self involved, bitch? You still feel Caskett is viable relationship?

If Beckett wants to focus her life on solving cases involving her mother/feeding her obsession that's completely up to her, but she needs to tell Castle that so he can leave.

 

Their relationship isn't viable at all, only one of them wants to be in it (asking Castle to wait indefinitely isn't fair). It's just an extremely unbalanced partnership, it's not healthy at all.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Chado

[mommalib]

Castle needs to star giving Beckett some ultimatums. 

[Lamb18]

If you want to get metaphysical, maybe this episode was intentionally a parody of earlier seasons' episodes just to show how ridiculous this situation is that Beckett's created. I think Beckett doesn't want Castle at the station because Vicram's there and Castle knows he's not just another computer guy on the force.

[pennben]

I've enjoyed these first three episodes.  Do I like the premise of Beckett needing space and walking away from Castle, no, I don't.  But, it is where we are and I'm just going to roll with it as I watch the show.  Despite that manipulation, these few episodes do seem to have new life in them, so I'm good to go.

 

As far as Castle walking away or issuing an utlimatum in response to Beckett, he certainly has that option.  Indeed, when Beckett said she needed time away to clear her head but hoped he'd be there when she figured stuff out, it was clear that she understood that he could walk away and not wait for her.  Tonight she fleshed it out a bit further with Vikram that they needed to solve this quickly, lest Castle figure out she didn't just want time away, but that she was working on a big case on her own and if it took too long, he would get involved.....her stated worry.  The writers are putting the threads there, I know most aren't buying them, but they are enough for me to continue to see them as a viable couple once things get resolved and enjoy the episodes as they play out until then.

 

As noted above, if these kids can survive the death curse of Hudson University, they can overcome anything!:)

Edited October 6, 2015 by pennben

[KaveDweller]

I think Beckett doesn't want Castle at the station because Vicram's there and Castle knows he's not just another computer guy on the force.

 

I think it's because she knows the more she sees him the harder it will be to stay away.

 

But I do think she's wrong when she says if Castle knew what she was doing he'd insist on helping.  I think if he found out what she's doing he'd insist she stop for the sake of her own life. It's like an addict hiding that they're using again. Maybe they have justice-aholic's anonymous meetings she could go to.

[turnitwayup]

The case wasn't that bad tho I can't believe that tiny girl was strong enough to push the victim in the tree branch. Chad should've made it some tall male student trapped in the experiment. 

 

I did like the comedic Ryan/Espo moments and Castle getting a new gadget. Poor guy just want to know what went wrong. Alexis was more tolerable with the cheer up gift but still it looks like she quit school to do PI work and go undercover. At least Castle was being dad!Castle with the bdsm room & the frat party. It was kinda like a really early Halloween ep with all the costumes at the party. TPTB some how made Espo likeable again so far, but I wonder if it's a matter of time before he pissed off at Castle. Probably with his disappearance storyline reappears. I also like that the most famous guest stars wasn't the killer tho I did recognized the professor from AoS as part of new!Shield storyline.

 

So Rita tells her to go back to her life and now Smith says let it go and be happy. How many people are gonna tell her that before she realizes that Castle may not be there for her at the end? Vikram shows more personality than Tory but still not sure if I want to trust him. Apparently he did just quit his AG job to work at the 12th. Since he's just recurring he could end up being on the conspiracy. 

[madmaverick]

While I still find the break up and the secret from Castle and all things conspiracy to be very contrived and Beckett's motivations very problematic, I have to say I still really enjoyed the episode.  I feel a bit more confident about what the writers are trying to do now even if I still have trepidation about how they will rehabilitate Beckett and the relationship.

 

There was plenty of Caskett this episode, and Nathan and Stana had excellent chemistry in their scenes together, so I hope people can stop with all those rumours about them not sharing screentime together or bts issues affecting storyline.  Continue to see no evidence of that.  Like it or not, I found that the tension between Caskett made their scenes more interesting and dynamic in a way that they haven't been in some time.  There's something to be said for wanting to see that yearning, that longing (even if yes, Beckett could stop this thing any second now and have her happily ever after).

 

Yes, realistically, most men would be a lot angrier than Castle.  But I can't say that it's impossible for a person to react the way Castle did because maybe he's not most men, and because he really loves Beckett in an incredible, unconditional way.  It's not the same of course, but if Alexis suddenly walked out on Castle tomorrow without explanation, he wouldn't be giving up on her either because he loves her unconditionally and he can't live without her.  He just wants to help her and understand Beckett.  Maybe the anger will come in a future moment and it's justified, but I must admit I much prefer this active, man with a plan, not giving up on his wife Castle rather than a repeat of angry, douchebag, lashing out Castle.  And who knows, maybe he really will move her with his steadfast love and by being there as always and make her come to see his place is always at her side, no matter what crazy thing she's doing.

 

I liked that Alexis and Martha were just supportive and concerned for Castle, and we didn't see them angry with Beckett even if they must be shocked that she suddenly just decided to leave.

 

It was a relief to see signs of a more conflicted Beckett even though I still think she's making a completely wrong, reckless and unnecessary decision that makes no sense on any level.  Makes no sense that she'll work with someone untrained like Vikram without backup, but not Castle.  And of course as has been said many times already, makes no sense that Castle is being protected through her separation as things stand. 

 

There was generally tighter storytelling and sparkier, wittier banter between all characters, not just Caskett, throughout the episode and that definitely made me rate it higher.  This is a welcome trend this season so far and I hope it continues.  There's less pure exposition from all characters, and that's a marked change and real relief.  The COTW was stronger.  I didn't zone out at all during the episode and that's a sign to me that the writing was tighter.  With the better dialogue, I didn't mind the new configurations of the characters beyond Caskett and they were actually mostly entertaining, Alexis included.  I liked that they at least didn't ignore the issue of it being questionable that Alexis was getting involved in these potentially unsafe investigations, but accept that will just have to handwave that.

 

There was more of the fun stuff reminiscent of early season Castle.  From the house robot to shooting arrows to the Castle Depression Kit etc.  All these character notes added much missed flavour and flair.  And Castle kept the big elephant and ditched Linus for you in the bedroom, Beckett, so come back it's only fair! ;)

 

Luke still cannot tailor Castle's jackets.  And that was one ugly professor jacket unfortunately.  

 

Beckett being attracted to Prof Glasses Castle would have been good, but I suppose she's seen him in glasses many times at home already.  If I were Castle, I would have just kissed Beckett senseless in the prison cell.  But I guess it's way too soon for that for the writers. ;)

 

I did like that dramatic opening for Castle's lecture.  Reminded me of Gina's intro of him in the pilot.

 

Beckett's basically a Captain in name only.  Because otherwise she's anywhere but doing paperwork and supervising, not to mention breaking all kinds of rules and doing her own investigation during work.  Still don't care about the conspiracy at all and those investigation scenes were the only that dragged for me.  I did want to laugh when Beckett said they had to work fast and she wanted it over quickly.  Um, didn't she hear Rita say that she'd been investigating for like a year and still hadn't IDed the guy, with her resources?

 

Glad that Castle clued into the Stanford Prison Experiment immediately.  Would have been annoyed if they'd had him clueless.

 

All in all, this episode will be on my rewatch list.

Edited October 6, 2015 by madmaverick

[Chado]

Isn't there a case that he is reacting that way because he doesn't actually know why she has left? His attitude can quite easily change when he realizes he's losing her over a case that she is able to walk away from.

 

Castle has a right to be angry, don't think that would make him a douchebag in this situation at all.

[verdana]

I may start watching for the boys interaction from now on they're funny more satisfying and at least their relationship makes sense because nothing else does after watching this. I don't like being so blatantly manipulated by the writers.  I wish I could like this episode more but the way they're handling this separation story is ridiculous and it taints everything they're trying to that could be fresh and interesting.

 

Sorry but I can't get on board with her sudden concerns about Rachel and her friends, I don't care about them and I don't think this is a good enough reason for Beckett to sacrifice possibly her life and destroy Castle's trust and love for her to go chasing after this. The set up isn't remotely solid enough and they're not doing enough to convince me despite the odd pained look from Katic.

 

No interrupted kisses any more instead we get conveniently interrupted conversations - why am I not surprised expect to a lot more of this in the months ahead. Didn't the writers say they wanted to explore the characters more? They had a chance and promptly skipped over it, I don't see where they're talking about anything in that cell or exploring things what was discussed exactly? 

 

Castle, this was not about you. It’s on me - but that's the sadness about it all it should be about them, she hasn't learnt a damn thing.  Once again she's the focus in this stupid fight for justice and not Castle when it should be both of them, hasn't he been through enough to at least know the truth about what she's doing? Her actions are showing him no respect. 

 

"You're gonna get yourself killed" Even Smith is telling her to let it go, that she could be happy. Of course her response is, that she can't.. SIGH it's so stupid because everyone with half a brain she meets is telling her to drop this and the more they keep hammering it home the more wilfully obstinate and self absorbed Beckett looks.

Edited October 6, 2015 by verdana

[TWP]

So, you all actually still like the Beckett character? You don't find her a self involved, bitch? You still feel Caskett is viable relationship?

Emotionally unavailable, self-involved bitch, to be exact. Someday she should wake up to the fact that she's commitment-phobic. Castle needs to dump her. Now. That's certainly the advice I'd give him if he were my friend. He deserves better.

Tiresome stuff. Not watchable TV.

[shapeshifter]

So, you all actually still like the Beckett character? You don't find her a self involved, bitch? You still feel Caskett is viable relationship?

How can I hate a cartoon character? And how can a cartoon relationship not be viable?

[verdana]

What came over was Beckett is telling him to give her space and basically wait without any decent explanation until she's ready to deal with everything (in other words make a break in the case) and that's it. So much for balance in this relationship. Sigh. I want to like and sympathise with them both but I can't when Castle is pushing her constantly being made to look so clueless and desperate and Kate is closed off, selfish and so *not* keeping him remotely safe. 

 

I also find it jarring that Alexis and Martha are so calm and accepting about it after all Castle's been through with Beckett their reactions seems far too low key to me and contrived. 

 

If they carry on with this dynamic for a significant portion of the season I'll no longer be shipping them as a couple because this risks looking unhealthy, may be not for TV where love conquers all but I can't support them getting back together without a major sit down discussion about their priorities in life, they need to regain some balance. Damn you writers you are ruining my ship with this "its in her DNA" obsession crap. The fact she refused the idea of therapy or counselling (both of which she urgently needs on the basis of these last two episodes) was depressing,.  She  tells him she "just can't" no she can't because they need this stupid story to drag on interminably. SIGH

Edited October 6, 2015 by verdana

[verdana]

I wish instead of Vikram being with Kate in the gym we'd had her doing that with Castle.

 

Of course Beckett beats him at beer pong, he's a loser and not allowed to be cool any more.

 

Kate could have got that information Smith gave her from any decent narcotics detective, aside from the clunky plot device of needing the audience to be reminded Kate has an OBSESSION it was useless. 

 

I wish Lanie would go back to talking about lividity and her "advice" was crap and trite.  She should be talking to her husband. Her advice to Beckett is asinine, and no she didn't accept him without question Lanie!  I hate it when writers re-write or plain forget things.

 

She should be in college .(TV LINE)

I so agree so much with this comment.

 

I found it funny Alexis gets involved in college life pity she's not interested in her own.

"Are you kidding Castle your daughter!" Thank you Kate for saying what I was thinking the whole time. Yeah he does look like a bad parent and the fact they even have him so casually say it then move on had me shaking my head, this whole PI stuff with Alexis is stupid just like the separation story it makes no sense. She's his only child and there's no fucking way he would allow her to be doing this kind of thing, no protective parent would. I can't hand wave it away I wish I could. Why isn't she in college thinking about what she wants to do with her future seriously and mixing with her friends?

 

Instead I have to watch her dressed in bra and panties going to frat parties, sneaking into abandoned buildings and getting locked up with daddy and knocking back whisky. I know the ending was meant to be sweet and charming but it left me strangely cold and only served as a painful reminder that Castle and Beckett don't work together any more it's Castle and Nancy Drew with a closing scene in the loft or office to look forward to in future. 
 

[FlickerToAFlame]

I haven't watched it yet, did they say where Beckett is living?

[verdana]

I haven't watched it yet, did they say where Beckett is living?

No they couldn't be bothered. 

[Chado]

It will be with Vikram, I'm just waiting for the announcement

[FlickerToAFlame]

Thanks Verdana. That's a little odd.

[verdana]

"I told you I needed time". Castle could get an Olympic gold medal for waiting on her. How much longer does he have to keep doing that?  He's got the patience of a saint.

 

"At the prison, we sorta had a moment. I think my plan is working." I felt so sorry for Castle then, that was the best acted bit for me amongst all other other rather forced interactions, Nathan's good at selling those moments, but I feel sick at the thought they're going to have him begging her to come back in the coming months and she does but on her terms and there's nothing to show that she's changed. He looked pathetically sad and desperate and I don't care to see him like that I want to be entertained not upset each week watching him chasing after her to no avail. 

 

Would Alexis really be knocking back fifty year old scotch whisky as her drink of choice? Doubt it. And of course Alexis got her dad to pay for it like it's nothing. But hey she's all grown up remember just put it on the expense account! 

[Chado]

"At the prison, we sorta had a moment. I think my plan is working." I felt so sorry for Castle then, that was the best acted bit for me amongst all other other rather forced interactions, Nathan's good at selling those moments, but I feel sick at the thought they're going to have him begging her to come back in the coming months and she does but on her terms and there's nothing to show that she's changed. He looked pathetically sad and desperate and I don't care to see him like that I want to be entertained not upset each week watching him chasing after her to no avail. 

I wish someone in an interview with Hawley/TPW would ask about that. Will there be a significant resolution to Beckett getting past this obsession? Is there going to be scenes where Beckett is rebuilding the trust she is so clearly going to destroy with Castle?

 

I have this fear that we will see none of that. It will go from months of Castle trying to win her back/begging for answers to a situation where she changes her mind and Castle welcomes her back without any sort of proper resolving of Beckett's mistakes.

 

You're right about the end scene Verdana and the acting, you could tell Castle was crushed.

[verdana]

I understand why they've had to return to much lighter fare on a practical level after two angst filled and dramatic helpings but in terms of cohesive storytelling - but it didn't work for me. You can't drop an emotional bomb like they did last week and then do a complete turnaround the following week it merely cheapens the characters and makes their behaviour laughable and fake. It's hard to look beyond the obvious contrived plot devices the writers have created to make this story happen. 

Nothing Castle and Beckett are doing or saying makes sense right now. I can't get a genuine emotional pay off when what I'm seeing doesn't feel remotely realistic. It's like the writers don't even know or respect the characters they're writing for any more.  Their behaviour just keeps bringing up stupid plot holes you could drive a truck through and  glaring character inconsistencies:
 
1. It's ludicrous that Beckett believes she can bring down LOCKSAT with only AG tech Vikram to call upon for aid. What makes Beckett more qualified to go after them than Super Agent Rita who saved her life? Oh but I forgot she's a woman on a crusade for justice! But how will she find time to get to the bottom of this cloak and dagger silliness, kiss and make up with Castle and run a police precinct too? Talk about multi-tasking she really is extraordinary.
 
2. How is the two of them working together again a good idea if Beckett wants to keep Castle safe and away from the attentions of LOCKSAT? Whilst she continues to look into the case they can still hurt Castle to get to her, everyone knows who they are. It's ridiculous for her to think Castle is simply out of danger because she moved out the loft.
 
3. Kate wants to get this over with as quickly as possible because she would like to return to Castle which is positive news but there's no point doing so if she's not going to seek a permanent cure for her Obsessive Justice Disorder. Quitting on her marriage so she can get this latest obsession out of her system assuming then all will be well is the dumbest idea yet - what's happened to all that emotional development I witnessed over the last 3 years? If they don't rectify this they've come very close to turning Kate into a borderline basket case, the fact she flat our refused Castle's suggestion of therapy made my heart sink into my boots.
 
4. Given she's the one that walked out on him doesn't Kate at least owe her husband a decent explanation? Does she really expect him to passively wait by without complaint until she decides she's ready to let him back in? Apparently so. Loving someone doesn't mean losing your backbone and getting walked all over. Where's the honest, mature communication I would expect to see at this stage in their relationship? Oh right I forget we're back in S4.
 
5. Why does Castle say he needs to win Kate back? Wasn't he listening to her last week, Kate made it perfectly clear she loved him and hoped that one day he could forgive her, he hasn't lost her love. Why does Castle assume that by inserting himself into cases against the wishes of a reluctant Beckett each week it's going to make her suddenly relent? That's not the problem - it's her new obsession, having him chase constantly around after makes him look sad.  The fact that he has to show her what a great team they make is part of the problem he has already proven this over, and over and over again but she never learns (or should I say the writers never LET her learn).
 
And I know this sounds silly but the least they could have done is surely tell us where she's living after all this? May be even see Kate also waking up alone and upset. I know it doesn't materially affect the situation but it's little things like that I'd like to know. Has she moved all her stuff in? Is she living in a cardboard box? Sleeping on the sofa in the office?

Edited October 6, 2015 by verdana

[verdana]

I’m really confused about Kate’s storyline. Can someone explain it to me, please?

 

 

I saw this on tumblr and thought yeah that just about sums up my feelings right now. 

[turnitwayup]

If they carry on with this dynamic for a significant portion of the season I'll no longer be shipping them as a couple because this risks looking unhealthy, may be not for TV where love conquers all but I can't support them getting back together without a major sit down discussion about their priorities in life, they need to regain some balance. Damn you writers you are ruining my ship with this "its in her DNA" obsession crap. The fact she refused the idea of therapy or counselling (both of which she urgently needs on the basis of these last two episodes) was depressing,.  She  tells him she "just can't" no she can't because they need this stupid story to drag on interminably. SIGH

 

Ikr? Some times I wonder if Bowman has any influence on storyline and if he's in some kind of ego competition with CC on who can torpedo a well liked ship to it's audience the fastest. It's already bad enough that we poorly lit eps to contend with.

 

1. Everybody's walking around all, "Poor Castle. His wife totally walked out on him.

 

Her BEST FRIEND doesn't ask why.

Her partners don't ask why.

NOBODY freaking asks her WHY. 

 

Everyone around her should be nagging her. Should be shouting at her. Should be pissed at her for walking out on Castle. But everything just continues on. Her BFF's "grown-ass man" speech was the lamest lame to ever lame.

 

Nice that Beckett wasn't interested in Therapy or counseling. Why try to get better when you can stay in your obsession?

 

It did seem like Ryan was worried about Castle and want to talk to him seeing that he's also married, but apparently not enough to actually go over to the loft. Plus working on a case isn't exactly the right time to talk deeply about it tho he did gives some sympathy looks at Castle. He did kind look torn that should he be on Beckett's or Castle's sides or stay out of it. Now Espo and Lanie yes on that. They used to be the ones to talk sense into Beckett, but they are just as clueless as Castle on her reason which makes no sense and Lanie gives that lame advice. I'm just glad they don't have Espo currently pissed at Castle cause that was getting old. I guess she might go back to therapy if Michael Dorn shows up on guest credits.

 

"Would Alexis really be knocking back fifty year old scotch whisky as her drink of choice? Doubt it. And of course Alexis got her dad to pay for it like it's nothing. But hey she's all grown up remember just put it on the expense account! 

 

She's like in the running for weirdest character arc on this show. She's a privilege white girl who can do and be anything, graduate without student loans cause you know Castle is paying her tuition and she's living at home so don't have to worry about tuition for dorms or rent on apt anymore. But here she is, dressed way older than she is and in this dumb PI storyline when she should be figuring out a career for herself. At this point I am doubting we'll ever know what she is suppose to be majoring in. The drink is kinda weird too since the avg college student is gonna be drinking beer or possible hard alcohol with juice. I think I would buy Alexis as more of a wine drinker in that house than super expensive whiskey.

Edited October 6, 2015 by turnitwayup

[verdana]

Will there be a significant resolution to Beckett getting past this obsession? Is there going to be scenes where Beckett is rebuilding the trust she is so clearly going to destroy with Castle?

 

I have this fear that we will see none of that. It will go from months of Castle trying to win her back/begging for answers to a situation where she changes her mind and Castle welcomes her back without any sort of proper resolving of Beckett's mistakes.

There should be if they're genuinely serious about emotional continuity and digging deeper into the characters but I'm not holding out any hopes they'll address it properly. It's been a load of PR hot air in the past about things they were going to do and they never happened or they did but not in the way I expected and often to the character's detriment. 

I agree your scenario sounds correct, Castle will continue to chase around getting involved in her cases and she'll continue to stall him until something happens to move things on to the next stage which is probably the Castle mythology rearing it's ugly head. Hawley wants all these plots linked by the looks of it so I expect that to happen before Christmas.  They're going to treading water as usual until sweeps by the looks of things, nothing has changed.

 

Their moment in the cell didn't do much for me because it just served as a reminder how stupid this whole situation is, they should be talking like adults about what has happened and of course they stopped talking at the key moment. It's like the writers have decided every week they'll need to create a situation that forces them into close proximity together for a few moments to touch superficially on their separation before leaving it again, in that way fans get their requisite "Caskett fix" whilst stalling any forward momentum. 

Edited October 6, 2015 by verdana

[Phantomizer]

If I'm Tamala, I'm not questioning what I get to say, I'm just thankful that it's more than "time of death" and "lividity".

LOL

[Bubbi63]

So, you all actually still like the Beckett character? You don't find her a self involved, bitch? You still feel Caskett is viable relationship?

No and No.  The end of episode 2 was the final nail in the Beckett coffin for me. I don't like her and I do not think the writers can fix Caskett.  She is all about her and looking back she has always been that way but it appeared she had grown from the "its my life" when she let Castle in.  The writers have brought the old KB back.  For what?  To bring back the sparks they saw lacking once they got married?   The only reason Caskett moments were lacking is because the writers interrupted them every time!  We will never know what a fun, sexy and feisty married couple they could have been because the writers blocked it. 

 

If I wasn't already convinced of KB self centered bitchy ways--when she said "I hope I haven't hurt him to  much"  Seriously??  How could she not know how devastated he is?  Are we the viewers taking this walk out to literally?  Are we suppose to see it as a blip instead of  a heart crushing blow?  I watched 8-3 to see how it would go and I was left depressed.  KB telling him to go away for the first half was exactly what I expected.  The writers toss in the famous hoisting KB up while Castle points out "together" was to much.

What's worse is it could have all ended if she said yes to delete! 

 

Castle not only feels he has to win her back--he feels he has to win her love back.  In what universe does that make sense?  Some are saying to those of us unhappy with the show to move on. Maybe they are right--it is what it is and I pushed the DVR delete button as I never watched Castle to be made sad....

Edited October 6, 2015 by Bubbi63

[KaveDweller]

You have to be really close to someone to ask why their marriage is breaking up, especially when they don't want to be talking about it. And Kate's Ryan and Espo's boss now, so that kinda changes the dynamic of those conversations. Also, Castle has never really been as close with the boys as they sometimes pretend they are. Lanie is the only one who I think could get away with asking, and she kinda did, but Beckett gave her "I just need some space" answer. I think Lanie knows Kate well enough to know there was no point in pushing.

I do like that Castle is asking Beckett though, and I don't think he looks pathetic by doing that. My heart did break for him in that end scene though. If they keep having the same conversation with no progress all season I'll be annoyed, but right now I'm enjoying the interaction (even if I hate the break up and Beckett being so stupid).

The actors are doing great with the material.

[pepper]

 

If Beckett wants to focus her life on solving cases involving her mother/feeding her obsession that's completely up to her, but she needs to tell Castle that so he can leave.

The point is, she is very clear that she still loves him. She also explicitly said he could leave. So if she tells him why she isn't with him, exactly the opposite will happen. He will insert himself into the case the same way he inserted himself into the case of the impaled student. And possibly in an equally subtle way - which will get him killed, not trapped in a cell. 

 

 

Castle not only feels he has to win her back--he feels he has to win her love back.  In what universe does that make sense?

I think the writers have set up exactly the opposite scenario. He's at a loss as to how to win her back because he already has her love. And if their love for each other isn't enough to keep their marriage together then what will it take?

 

Which makes Castle's situation particularly sad and Beckett's dilemma particularly neurotic. In this episode the actors have successfully portrayed that love, to the extent that despite the circumstances I still believe those two characters would be happier with each other than with other people. So the separation is still sustainable as long as I hand-wave the piss-poor writing that led to it. But now that they've played out the love and the longing and the ambiguity on Beckett's part and the pained confusion on Castle's, the shelf life of this clunky Separation! plot device is fast approaching an end.

 

Two more episodes tops. And they'd better have world-class crime plots and scintillating banter between the characters in order to distract me... Angry Castle/Beckett sex wouldn't hurt either, provided Castle was the one to walk away from it after reminding her of what she's missing to crank up her ambiguity some more. His confusion can't get more intense without making it impossible to watch.

[ZingerCaskett]

I really liked a lot about this episode, even thought I hate the plot device that gave birth to lots of really great moments.     Rick SHOULD be angry, and SHOULD have figured out by now that something is wrong and that Kate is going down her rabbit hole.   He gave us a bit of angry in 8x02.   Now he's bewildered and lost and too busy wallowing to really put the story together as far as Kate goes.     But that moment is episodes away....much more scenery to chew and moments to have in the meantime.    

The killer in last night's episode reminded me of River Tam in Firefly.    Anyone else?

[Chado]

The point is, she is very clear that she still loves him. She also explicitly said he could leave. So if she tells him why she isn't with him, exactly the opposite will happen. He will insert himself into the case the same way he inserted himself into the case of the impaled student. And possibly in an equally subtle way - which will get him killed, not trapped in a cell. 

I disagree. She never said he could leave, she said she hoped he would still be there when she's finished. If anything he is trapped in this relationship, because how can he make a decision without knowing anything?...Also don't you think his current behavior is born out of not knowing what is going on with her? He still thinks it actually involves him and/or their relationship in some way.

 

I would tend to think his entire attitude would be different once he realizes why she has broken up with him. To realize that she has chosen a case/her obsession over him. I think that would be an entirely different prospect to deal with.

 

I know many don't think Castle should be angry at all, but personally I struggle to understand why he wouldn't be furious once the actual reason becomes known to him. Would that result in him trying to 'solve' the case? Maybe, maybe not. But he's trying to involve himself anyway, I don't understand what keeping him in the dark accomplishes (aside from driving a weak 'motive' and to manufacture angst).

Edited October 6, 2015 by Chado

[oberon55]

Their moment in the cell didn't do much for me because it just served as a reminder how stupid this whole situation is, they should be talking like adults about what has happened and of course they stopped talking at the key moment. It's like the writers have decided every week they'll need to create a situation that forces them into close proximity together for a few moments to touch superficially on their separation before leaving it again, in that way fans get their requisite "Caskett fix" whilst stalling any forward momentum. 

 

This should not surprise us. They said they were going to recreate the earlier dynamic & the bullshit of them never talking was a key element of that. As far as people taking sides the storyline would fall apart if they did. Realistically at some point Alexis (Castle's grown ass skotch drinking daughter) should start telling him to get over it & let it go. But in this world she'll encourage him in his pathetic campaign to get Beckett to remember why she loves him so he can "win her back". So my advice is to get ready for a steady diet of interrupted conversations & people gazing sadly at their wedding rings.

Edited October 6, 2015 by oberon55

[Cyranetta]

 

 

I found it funny Alexis gets involved in college life pity she's not interested in her own.

"Are you kidding Castle your daughter!" Thank you Kate for saying what I was thinking the whole time. Yeah he does look like a bad parent and the fact they even have him so casually say it then move on had me shaking my head, this whole PI stuff with Alexis is stupid just like the separation story it makes no sense. She's his only child and there's no fucking way he would allow her to be doing this kind of thing, no protective parent would. I can't hand wave it away I wish I could. Why isn't she in college thinking about what she wants to do with her future seriously and mixing with her friends?

Instead I have to watch her dressed in bra and panties going to frat parties, sneaking into abandoned buildings and getting locked up with daddy and knocking back whisky. I know the ending was meant to be sweet and charming but it left me strangely cold and only served as a painful reminder that Castle and Beckett don't work together any more it's Castle and Nancy Drew with a closing scene in the loft or office to look forward to in future.

There was one other thing I found problematic about the way Alexis is being promoted (in both senses of the word). I found her "50 Shades of Grey" humor kind of smarmy, especially directed at Ryan and Esposito. I suppose it's to emphasize how "mature" she's become, but it felt uncomfortably like a niece stressing her sexuality before two uncles (I suppose someone, somewhere, is developing Alexis-Espo fanfic, which would be -- different).

 

I wasn't really able to enjoy the "fun" because the whole Kate situation is such a lead weight that it threw the episode off-balance for me, like a seesaw with a boulder on one side, so that rather than appreciating the light-hearted moments, it was more like "why are you behaving like that, you don't make any sense". Just as an example, Vikram seemed weirdly cheerful for such a dire situation.

 

I wonder if, during the next "fun" episode, we'll learn that Michael Smith was also done in, adding to the body-count weight on Beckett's soul -- anyone want to start a pool on  the total number of bodies that will wind up being the result of her "altered DNA"?

[verdana]

Okay had a re-watch.
 
Lanie: "You didn't call me back" 
Kate: "Sorry about that" 
Lanie: "That's okay"

LOL Sums up their the most one sided friendship evah.
 
Kate: "I hope I haven't hurt him to much" Huh? Of course you've hurt him good God woman. She walked out on her marriage without any decent explanation. Sometimes they make Kate look so emotionally stunted it's laughable. 

 

Lanie, Martha and Alexis all annoyed me with their ambivalence about what's happened, it didn't feel realistic to me that there would be no anger there. Last week Alexis was all "she's family!" now it's *shrug* lets get dad a rescue kit and some puppies to make him feel better. Okay. There's no sense that she's that upset Kate's walked out of her dad's life. Lanie was the worst though with her casual dismissal of something which should be treated seriously, not only with Kate but with Castle too.

 

And I wish they would stop equating Castle's disappearance with this current situation as if that makes it all okay because look what he did to Kate leaving her all that time without a word etc. It's not the same, after all Beckett is still very much around she hasn't gone anywhere it would make far more sense if she did go on the run to resolve this than hang around her husband giving him false hope when there is sadly none to be had.  

 

What annoyed me on second viewing was that it feels like the writers are making certain characters act as their mouthpiece to give the party line on how this should come over rather than have these characters act in a truly organic way as I would expect them to do this was real life. I can feel the manipulation constantly and whilst that's what writers are often doing to their audience here I can clearly see the strings.

Edited October 6, 2015 by verdana