Jason Gideon: They Don't Call Them Nervous Breakdowns Anymore

[mstaken]

Ah, Gideon. There are CM characters I like a lot more and characters I like less, but Jason Gideon is the one about whom I'm most ambivalent. In comparing Gideon with Rossi, his replacement, someone smarter than I am once said something to the effect of "I LIKE Rossi more, I'd prefer to have a drink with Rossi if he were a real guy...but, as a viewer watching fictional characters, I find Gideon far more compelling." That kind of sums it up for me as well. Mandy P. gets a little to 'stagey' for me (and don't get me started on what he appears to be like offscreen!), but I found Gideon a really interesting, can't-look-away-even-when-I-want-to character, and his relationships with both Reid and Hotch are still among my favorite intra-team connections of the series. What were some of your favorite (and/or least favorite?!) Gideon scenes?

Edited April 1, 2014 by mstaken

[FormerMod-a1]

I always liked how gentle he was to victims and how well he handled it when the victims were found.  I don't have episode titles in my head right now, but some boy stashed in an attic/crawl space is one example...  Sorry - been a long day and memory is fading.

I liked his intensity too, and how personally and how much he internalized things.  Everthing about the case was so urgent because if they can't solve it quickly, another victim will die.  That lead to what many showed as meanness to others at times and not using the normal social niceties, but if my loved one was in danger I'd like them to be that intensely focused.  

[mstaken]

I always liked how gentle he was to victims and how well he handled it when the victims were found.

Same here! That's the thing---he was narcissistic and pompous in many ways, yet also sensitive and compassionate. You might even say he felt for others TOO deeply to do the job effectively long term. More than maybe any other team member, Gideon illustrated the hidden hazards of being a profiler who excels at getting inside the hearts and minds of others. 

 

 

I liked his intensity too, and how personally and how much he internalized things.

Exactly. And while Jason/Mandy irked the hell out of me at times, I felt it was that intensity---which serves as both a major strength and detrimental flaw---made him so compelling. 

While most of my favorite Gideon moments involve Reid (yeah, I know...shocker!), I really did love the Gideon-Hotch dynamic. I loved the tension between Hotch's genuine affection and admiration for Gideon and the mutual knowledge that Hotch might have to 'report' Gideon as unfit to serve in the field. I felt like Hotch wanted desperately to be able to trust Gideon as much as he liked and looked up to him. He defended Gideon outwardly to Morgan and others who questioned Gideon's stability out loud, but never fully shed those nagging doubts. Needless to say, Gideon's departure served to validate some of the team members' fears! 

Do you guys think Gideon has been in touch with Reid, Hotch or any other team members? Do you think he's currently happy and sane?!

Edited April 1, 2014 by mstaken

[Kristen]

I'd have to say some of my favorite Gideon scenes are from the episode "Ride the Lightning". His interactions with Sarah Jean Dawes are so wonderfully moving leading up to and including her execution. Breaks my heart every time.

[Wilowy]

 

Do you guys think Gideon has been in touch with Reid, Hotch or any other team members? Do you think he's currently happy and sane?!

Nope and nope. 

In my estimation Gideon closed off things with that letter to Spencer. When Emily said to Reid "Out of all the people he left behind, he took the time to explain himself to one person... you." To me, that was it (and I love that moment with Reid and Emily).

I don't think he's batshit, but I do think he's off somewhere being unhappy and angsty. Hopefully he's getting therapy. 

P.S. I'm also somebody who's still really pissed at Patinkin. Grr.

[ForeverAlone]

I always felt that Gideon was the most naturally gifted profiler on the show. He could get into the heads of unsubs and victims, but that was because he felt everything all the time. He had no ability to compartamentalize, which ultimately was his undoing. He melted down, because he couldn't separate his professional and his personal life. Gideon was probably the one who recruited Reid (we have never gotten a clear answer on Reid's path to the BAU), and he was the one who helped developed Reid's intellectual gifts the best in the first couple seasons. But like I mentioned in the Hotch thread, I think Hotch was ultimately a better mentor for Reid, because he was more emotionally stable. Sure we saw the affection Gideon had for Reid, but also on more than one occasion, we saw him shunting Reid aside or treating his questions like an annoyance, because they got in the way of his thinking. And he treated the entire team that way. At heart Gideon was very good at what he did, but he was also rather narcissistic in thinking that those around him should bend to him and his will. 

Gideon was a compelling character to watch, but he would have been hell to work for and with. I think the show thrived after Mandy left, because it really did allow for more team development. Just look at the DVD covers for the first two seasons, and you can see that all the actors were behind Mandy and his picture was the biggest, and that is perfect picture for how the show was. Once he left, it became a more equal cast, and it developed in interesting ways. 

[zannej]

I went in to the show with fondness for Mandy because I remembered him from The Princess Bride, Chicago Hope, and as the lead detective alien in the movie Alien Nation. He had this warmth to him but also a standoffishness. In behind-the-scenes photos you can see that Mandy had very genuine affection for Matthew and Matthew still halfway defends Mandy. He says he loves him and that Mandy was very nice to him and basically explains that Mandy just had a nervous break down. He's forgiven Mandy.

Its interesting because it seems like Reid did not readily forgive Gideon. I admit it was hit or miss with Gideon. Sometimes I really liked him and other times I couldn't believe what a jerk he was. Like the moment when Morgan is talking about going through the dog door and Gideon points his gun at Morgan's head after saying "You're a blackbelt in judo". First of all, as someone with a firearm who has been taught firearm safety, pointing a loaded weapon someone-- even to make a point-- is an absolute no-no. Even if it was on safety, you just don't do that. Especially not near someone's head. Secondly, judo is about grappling. Morgan would have been trained to wrestle the gun away asap. Still, Gideon made his point.

I do think one scene I liked was when the unsub asked if Gideon thought he was stupid and Gideon said "I think you're an absolute moron!"

I cringed through the part in "Broken Mirror" when Gideon was being a total ass to the unsub on the phone though. The father was getting so stressed out and it was something difficult to watch-- but it worked and it was believable that the father felt that way and that Gideon was just pissing the guy off-- while knowing that the guy was not planning to kill the girl.

I didn't like how Gideon made Reid leave the art gallery in "Somebody's Watching".

I did like how he sort of grabbed Reid around the shoulders and pulled him closer when they found a body in "What Fresh Hell". And I liked how he comforted Reid at the end of "Sex, Birth, and Death" as well as his little comforting speeches in LDSK.

He really did have some major flaws though, and Hotch put up with a lot and even took the blame for some of Gideon's actions. I remember how utterly useless Gideon was in Fisher King because he was too emotional. First he was angry and messed things up by underestimating the unsub's reaction/anger and caring more about his own feelings-- which led to Elle being shot. Then he spent pretty much the rest of the case wallowing in self pity. I liked that contrast between Gideon and Reid. Gideon would wallow and Reid was able to get his head in the game and help when Gideon left. Hell, Reid was of more help while on drugs and suffering from PTSD. No wonder Reid had problems figuring out how to respond to things with Gideon as his mentor.

I also liked how Reid would sometimes act like the parent or caretaker when he would ask Gideon if he was ok or point out that Gideon was being irrational (in a polite way).

It's a shame that Mandy flaked out, but in some ways I think it was better for the show. The other characters got to grow for awhile-- even if that growth has been stunted by the current writers.

[Enigma X]

I miss Gideon. I think my love for Gideon (no, not that kind of love) has left a bias for me not to warm up to Rossi. 

[mstaken]

Yeah, Gideon really did add quite a presence (occasionally too overwhelming a presence!) and made a major difference for me in the overall feel of the show. I *like* Rossi more, if only because of the actor who plays him, but I agree with those who feel that Gideon was a much more complex, compelling and well-developed character. And in many ways Gideon's relationship with Reid is still the very most interesting, touching intra-team relationship in the series' history for me, even after all this time!

[Wilowy]

I'm sorry to say that Gideon is just 'there' for me, these days. I've seen his episodes so many times that his dialogue is rote, and I'm still so angry with Mandy for his self-important and inconsiderate "confession" regarding CM (C'mon, man! Your FRIENDS work there! You knew what you were getting into!). Looking back on his performances, the ones I enjoyed the most and thought he did the best at were his quiet moments. Like the sneaky way he out-maneuvered the terrorist by making him think the time of day was different. And yes, I did like how supportive he was of Reid, though he could also be very dismissive of him, and I didn't like that.

Thing is, I don't miss him at all. I love all the Rossis. Orange Rossi, Arrogant, secretive Rossi, Jokey Rossi, Loving Rossi... what's not to love? Can't say that about Gideon

[Sharpie66]

Derailed was on Ion tonight, and I was ticked off, yet again, at Gideon's lack of trust in Reid's ability to handle Dr. Breyer, especially when Reid is doing a great job talking him down, and Gideon just cracks and goes barging in. That just pisses me off every time.

[SSAHotchner]

I'll admit that my disgust at Mandy over his comments about CM and his departure have colored my opinion of Gideon, but there are still some things I love about Gideon. He did have a gift. For instance, in Compulsion when the student security/campus watch guy came up to question what he was doing and Gideon takes one look at him and says, "Your girlfriend thinks you want to break up with her." I can't see anyone else on the team, even Hotch, picking up on that with just one look at the guy. It was very Sherlock Holmes. I loved his tenderness toward Reid in his mentoring role, but he was also tough when he needed to be. What I didn't like about him and grew to really notice was his constant second-guessing of himself ("I did the right thing") and what I felt was over acting with the victims. I felt that Hotch's compassion, the times he teared up, etc. were much more natural and believable. Mandy's came across as mugging, but again, this opinion is colored by my irritation at Mandy's departure and how he has handled it ever since. For somebody whose soul was so tortured by the material on Criminal Minds, he certainly didn't seem to have a problem with Homeland, which I found much more disgusting.

[Enigma X]

I am rewatching Riding the Lightning, and it totally reinforces why I like Gideon so much despite all of those viewers who see him as cold and standoffish.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

A & E ran Riding the Lightning this morning, and say what you like about Gideon, and even about Patinkin, but the episode is a precursor to what eventually broke him, the fact that when he did care, he cared too much. His realization that Sarah Jean is innocent spurs him to go to huge lengths to try and keep her alive, and while in some ways it was incredibly bull-headed of him, his sense of justice couldn't let him be okay with her being punished. If anything, her calm acceptance, and dare I say it, her dignity in the face not of only her own death but his desperation to save her is the salve on the wound that's inflicted on him by witnessing her execution. He knows she didn't do any of the terrible things she was convicted of, that at most she was guilty of poor judgment due to tying her life to a monster like Jacob Dawes, but she asks him before they lead her away to not allow her totally innocent son to become the last victim before she dies. To save the young man, he lets her go, and that was the only way he could have come close to being all right with it. It's a powerful, bittersweet ending to see him at the kid's cello concert at the end, and its a touch that's missing once Gideon departs. Drama queen tendencies and all, Jason's sensitivity is what made him flee, and that's why it works.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Cobalt Stargazer

[dusang]

Doubt was on last night.  I know I've rented the DVDs and would have sworn I've seen every episode in the first four seasons, at least, but I had NO memory of that episode.  I had it very firmly in my mind that Season 3 started with Gideon missing because Mandy just stopped showing up for work.  The IMDb trivia says that Doubt was filmed for S2 -- it would make a reasonable season cliffhanger -- and was held back because of the shootings at Virginia Tech.

 

Is my recollection of Patinkin's departure completely mistaken?  Or was it just a convenient coincidence that Doubt set it up for Gideon to disappear?

[ForeverAlone]

I think what happened is that when Mandy didn't show up for work they had to scramble. Luckily, Doubt was filmed for second season and I think they went back and added some scenes and Mandy's voiceover to set up his departure. Plus they added the voiceover and cameo at the end of In Name and Blood after convincing Mandy to come back to wrap up his storyline.

[SSAHotchner]

And how lucky they were to have that episode to use for season 3. I don't know if they could have gotten him to film an entire new episode to use as his breaking point, although what happened at the end of season 2 was good excuse, too. I did like the way they had him explain himself to Reid, though.

[dusang]

Thanks.  That was very convenient for them, having Doubt in the can setting up Gideon's departure when Mandy had his... crisis of conscience, shall we say?

 

Although again I have no memory of a cameo at the end of an episode -- did I not watch season 3?  WTH?

 

Although Mandy's behaviour then and now as he continues to trash talk the show is totally unprofessional, I can see his point.  Of all the police procedurals I watch, CM has to be the one that messes with your mind most effectively (excluding Hannibal, which has recently taken a commanding lead in the category).

[ForeverAlone]

Yeah it is the very last scene from In Name and Blood. Reid goes up to the cabin to find Gideon's letter and his voiceover from Doubt starts. Then the final scene is Gideon at some diner in the middle of nowhere and he is asked where he is going and he says he doesn't know. I actually thought it was rather a hopeful scene considering I initially thought they would have Gideon commit suicide.

 

Here is the scene:

 

Edited June 26, 2014 by ForeverAlone

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Riding the Lightning will be airing on A & E tonight at nine EST. Despite my recent comments about Patinkin's continued dissing of the show, this is a really pivotal episode for Gideon and it's the reason I sometimes miss the character, if not the actor. So I will once again be tuning in for the feels.

[Lebanna]

That wistful 'happy endings' line just kills me every time. The others may see justice or saving future victims as enough, providing them with their happy endings to dark stories, but Gideon just didn't anymore.

Perhaps he thought about killing himself, but in the end, he still believed that one day, as unhappy as he was, he would get better and find something worth living for, as he had before. On a personal level, the first time I watched it, I was in a bit of a sad place and it actually gave me hope, which is silly, but there we go. It's actually one of my favorite character departures from any show.

[SSAHotchner]

Riding the Lightning will be airing on A & E tonight at nine EST. Despite my recent comments about Patinkin's continued dissing of the show, this is a really pivotal episode for Gideon and it's the reason I sometimes miss the character, if not the actor. So I will once again be tuning in for the feels.

I don't much care for Riding the Lightning and it's mainly because of Mandy's overacting. I was watching my old Hill Street Blues DVDs the other night, and I thought that one of the women looked familiar. It was the woman who played Sarah Jean Dawes in Riding the Lightning. She was quite pretty as a young woman.

[zannej]

For some reason I never cared that much for Riding the Lightning, although I could never quite put my finger on what it was that bothered me about it. I would take it any day over most of the episodes of the last few seasons though.

 

I did think it was sad that Hotch took the blame for something that was pretty much Gideon's decision. Man, Gideon was pretty much worthless in Fisher King but he still contributed to the drama.

[normasm]

For some reason I never cared that much for Riding the Lightning, although I could never quite put my finger on what it was that bothered me about it. I would take it any day over most of the episodes of the last few seasons though.

 

I did think it was sad that Hotch took the blame for something that was pretty much Gideon's decision. Man, Gideon was pretty much worthless in Fisher King but he still contributed to the drama.

Me, too and me, too!! It bothered me that the woman was nearly glorified at the end, when she was just doing what any decent human/mother should do to protect her child from a monster. I didn't like the actress, and hated her bald wig (seriously, can't shows with the budget CM has do a decent bald wig? This was just one of three piss-poor ones on this show). I did like that they called off telling the kid at the end and he gets to stay innocent, but Gideon getting all weepy at the end grossed me out.

 

And, YEAH!! It was actually all Gideon's fault that Elle got shot, he's the one who broke the one rule with enough arrogance to choke a horse! 

[SparedTurkey]

 

Me, too and me, too!! It bothered me that the woman was nearly glorified at the end, when she was just doing what any decent human/mother should do to protect her child from a monster.

Me too! Me too! Me too! Me too! Riding the Lightning is not my favourite episodes, in fact, it would be one I disliked the most. Just seemed as though it was nothing but an opportunity for MP to overact and have some man!pain!. And I never thought Sarah Jean(?) was particularly sympathetic or worthy.

 

At least Hotch shows some degree of sympathy/empathy for his team i.e. cleaning Elle's blood of the walls. I doubt Gideon would have even thought of it (Though I could imagine Rossi paying for someone else to clean it, hehe). But yes, Gideon's arrogance was sometimes so irritating to watch I had to fast forward. I found Rossi similarly irritating, but I didn't think JM overacted what he was given to the extent of MP. MP, who had/has the same kind of unwatchable over-acting tics in Homeland also.

[zannej]

One thing I did like from Mandy before he started hating on CM

 

 

I also remember that he sang the song for the Goobie awards. So at some point he seemed to at least be pretending to have fun on the show.

 

And here's a pic of him with Matthew. 

Edited August 31, 2014 by zannej

[normasm]

I had never had the courage to watch that before. I am a changed woman. Thank you, Zannej...

[zannej]

Glad you liked it. I remember being pretty surprised the first time I saw it. I think I like it better than Mandy singing something about "the big one" (a bomb) on Chicago Hope. I'm trying to remember if he sang the poisoning pigeons in the park song....

[ForeverAlone]

The gag reel from Season Two was actually a lot of fun, and it showed Mandy having fun on set. He certainly didn't look or act tortured in those behind the scenes.

 

On a side note, when I look at the gag reels from the first four years and compare it to the sad state of affairs we saw for Season Nine, I can't believe it. The gag reel for season nine was pointless, not fun, and not funny. So it failed on every level as a gag reel. 

[zannej]

Yeah, the season 9 gag reel was pathetic. Mandy was usually pretty entertaining in the earlier gag reels.

 

[normasm]

Did anyone see Mandy on Stephen Colbert? That was one long, loud drink o' crazy!

[zannej]

Nope. I didn't see that. I hope he didn't mention CM.

[normasm]

No, he was talking about the end of season 4 on Homeland, after which he plans to run for Prime Minister of Israel. He wanted to have Stephen be his Secretary of Defense. It went on from there. Stephen ended up in his lap.

[zannej]

OK..... I'll have to find a clip of that sometime because it sounds hilarious. Mandy is such an oddball.

[Lillybee]

I may be wrong but I always thought that Mandy P. thought that he was above episodic TV. He seems to take tv jobs for the money and then quits when he gets bored. He did that with Chicago Hope and CM.

[Wilowy]

Also Dead Like Me.

[zannej]

I thought Dead Like Me got canceled? I really don't know. I think he's bipolar or something and that he gets such extreme mood swings that one minute he loves something and the next he hates it.... That seemed to happen with CM.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Look out, Jason, here comes Frank!

 

I just love the smell of schadenfreude in the evening.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Cobalt Stargazer

[normasm]

The only thing I don't like about this episode is the writing for Reid, him saying "A psycho with a whistle" is so OOC. When Jane was combative and came up to him babbling, Reid would have immediately thought about his mother, who the show had already established as a paranoid schizophrenic. If anyone would have acted the way Prentiss did, it would have been Reid. But Emily was new, so they needed to give her some special empathies.

[ForeverAlone]

I like to think Gideon recruited Reid when he was in grad school and turned him on to this career field. Like Reid attended some sort of lecture by Gideon, struck up a conversation with him, and Gideon groomed him for the FBI to get a hold of his genius. There is a bit of inconsistency into Reid's background and path into the FBI, and his original three doctorates don't really line up with a desire for a career in law enforcement. I think based on Reid's age alone, he would have needed some support in getting into the Academy, and that is where I see Gideon pulling some strings, along with pulling some strings to get him assigned to the BAU.

[Danielg342]

The gag reel from Season Two was actually a lot of fun, and it showed Mandy having fun on set. He certainly didn't look or act tortured in those behind the scenes.

I always believed that in Season 1, Mandy Patinkin genuinely liked being on the show, only for it to turn sometime in Season 2, perhaps while filming the finale. Patinkin seems to be the type who really gets into his roles, so he had to dig deep and really feel the mourning of Sarah for that storyline to work. Perhaps he took it a bit too far and it caused him to have a change of heart going into Season 3.

I will also point out that depression doesn't hit when you're around people- it hits when you're alone, when you can truly think about it. So if the material was going to get to Patinkin, he wasn't going to show it on set.

Still, I think the turning point had to have been S2. I look at his performances in S1 and compare them to S2 and he looks more engaged in S1 than in S2. It coincides with a shift in the show's tone, since it got a bit more formulaic (and graphic, I think) in S2 (not that I think it got worse because I believe Edward Allen Bernero knew how to write a procedural, but his style was a bit more simplistic than Jeff Davis' was).

[SSAHotchner]

I like to think Gideon recruited Reid when he was in grad school and turned him on to this career field. Like Reid attended some sort of lecture by Gideon, struck up a conversation with him, and Gideon groomed him for the FBI to get a hold of his genius. There is a bit of inconsistency into Reid's background and path into the FBI, and his original three doctorates don't really line up with a desire for a career in law enforcement. I think based on Reid's age alone, he would have needed some support in getting into the Academy, and that is where I see Gideon pulling some strings, along with pulling some strings to get him assigned to the BAU.

Ooh, I like this. That's the kind of backstory I'd like to see. 

[bj1968]

I am ashamed that I don't know this, but when did Gideon die? I was fooling around on YouTube and saw an episode with young Gideon and Rossi. I have never seen that episode before. What season was that ep from?

[Old Dog]

I am ashamed that I don't know this, but when did Gideon die? I was fooling around on YouTube and saw an episode with young Gideon and Rossi. I have never seen that episode before. What season was that ep from?

Season 10 Episode 13 called Nelson's Sparrow. Co-written by Kirsten Vangsness and Erica Messer. One of the best episodes of Season 10.

[normasm]

Old dog, you being a Reid Girl will enjoy Nelson's Sparrow, at least the Reid parts. I won't project my feelings on the whole episode to you, but the Reid parts are stellar! I hope you get to see it soon.

[Old Dog]

Old dog, you being a Reid Girl will enjoy Nelson's Sparrow, at least the Reid parts. I won't project my feelings on the whole episode to you, but the Reid parts are stellar! I hope you get to see it soon.

Normasm you misunderstand the posts.  I have seen Nelson's Sparrow several times - the tear in the morgue slays me every time! I was replying to bj1968 who hasn't seen it yet. Yes MGG acts more with no dialogue than the rest of them put together!

[normasm]

Sorry, Old Dog, it's early morning here, and I've only had one cuppa...

[Old Dog]

That's OK - I myself don't function till I've had at least 3 double strength coffees!

[bj1968]

Thanks Old Dog. *skips off to YouTube *

[Old Dog]

Thanks Old Dog. *skips off to YouTube *

Let us know what you think of it.