Magic, Enchantments, and Curses: Bibbidi Bobbidi Boo

[Curio]

I was thinking about all the random deus ex machina magical items that get introduced in the finales (or penultimates), and it's starting to become quite the list:

• Failsafe Diamond (Season 2B Finale)
• Black Fairy's Wand (Season 3A Finale)
• Camelot Gauntlet (Season 4A Finale)
• Regina's White Magic (Season 3B Penultimate)
• Regina's Magical "Savior" Blood (Season 4B Finale)
• A Vial of Magic (Season 5A Finale)
• Olympian Crystal (Season 5B Penultimate)

How are we supposed to speculate about how the arc will be resolved when they always introduce a random magical item that was never hinted at before the episode airs? I fully expect Season 6A's finale to introduce some random magical crown or something we've never heard of that will meld Regina and the Evil Queen back into one.

Someone will have to help me out if I'm missing any items from Seasons 1 and 2 since my memory is a bit fuzzy on those episodes. Maybe this is why I liked the 3B finale so much, because they actually used magical items that had been hinted at a few episodes before. They were developing Zelena's time travel spell for several episodes. Snow and Charming's ring was introduced in Season 1. The Black Fairy's Wand was introduced a half season earlier. The only random detail they added at the last second we didn't know about previously was Rumple's vault, but at least that was more of a location detour and not a magical item that saved the day.

Edited June 1, 2016 by Curio

[InsertWordHere]

I thought 2A was quite good in that regard as well. The compass was the focus of several episodes, the dried up bean was shown in Tallahassee, and Lake Nostos and Rumple's cell had been important places in Season 1. IIRC, Gold's magical object in that episode was Cinderella's fairy godmother's wand, which we saw him acquire early in Season 1. 

Emma's magic saving her from Cora is the most random magical occurrence, but it's not nearly as glaring as Regina's white magic in the 3B finale, and there was nothing previously that clearly said Emma didn't have magic. 

Edited June 1, 2016 by InsertWordHere

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

Black Fairy's Wand

Where the hell is this Black Fairy? She's gotten two mentions and we've never learned anything else about her.

[Curio]

The Black Fairy could have been a really cool piece of mythology. There's a Dark One title, so why not have a Black Fairy title? There could be a prophecy that says the Savior will ultimately defeat the Dark One and Black Fairy, which would lead us to the final season where it's Rumple vs. Regina vs. Emma in an ultimate magic battle. But I doubt the Black Fairy will serve any large purpose in the grand scheme of things. At most, she'll probably have a small role like Nimue and then die.

[Shanna Marie]

I felt like Emma's magic was set up pretty well. We'd already seen the sparkage when she arrived in Storybrooke, and the potion that brought magic to Storybrooke was made from her DNA, so it wasn't like that development came out of thin air. I felt like they'd been building toward it all along.

The thing that I find puzzling is the fact that dark Savior blood is required for the Author's magical ink. The role of the Author has clearly been around for a long time and pre-dates Emma, yet we've had no mention whatsoever of a previous Savior. Emma was called the Savior because her DNA was woven into the curse so that she could be the one to break it (and she seems to be stuck with that role in everything else because of the magical powers that apparently gave her). In order for previous Authors to have magic ink, there not only had to be other Saviors, but they had to have gone dark. We've heard of previous Dark Ones and they've shown how that succession works. They haven't shown or even mentioned previous Saviors, let alone Saviors who have gone bad. That seems like yet another level of dumbassery for Merlin. Why create something that requires something awful to happen in order for it to work? Was that supposed to make the ink so rare that Authors wouldn't be tempted to waste it on rewriting reality?

[KingOfHearts]

2 hours ago, Curio said:

The Black Fairy could have been a really cool piece of mythology. There's a Dark One title, so why not have a Black Fairy title? There could be a prophecy that says the Savior will ultimately defeat the Dark One and Black Fairy, which would lead us to the final season where it's Rumple vs. Regina vs. Emma in an ultimate magic battle. But I doubt the Black Fairy will serve any large purpose in the grand scheme of things. At most, she'll probably have a small role like Nimue and then die.

The Black Fairy sounds like an interesting person. She was banished by Blue, possessed a powerful wand that could recreate magic, and was "well-versed in dark magic". I'm still holding out hope that she's Blue's alter ego. Maybe Blue split herself and her dark side is locked up somewhere! In S6, anything can happen!

Edited June 1, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[profdanglais]

1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

 I'm still holding out hope that she's Blue's alter ego. Maybe Blue split herself and her dark side is locked up somewhere! 

The Black and Blue Fairy :)

[YaddaYadda]

On 5/27/2016 at 11:34 PM, Shanna Marie said:

Yeah, Grumpy probably also might meet the ridiculously low standard, but how long has it been since we've seen them in a scene together? Season 2? And that would lack the Rumple head explosion potential of Hook. He'd be pissed that a dwarf could revive her when he couldn't, but it wouldn't be the same.

They actually talked about Rumple during the ball in 5x02, and danced together if memory serves.

[Camera One]

11 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

The Black Fairy sounds like an interesting person. She was banished by Blue, possessed a powerful wand that could recreate magic, and was "well-versed in dark magic". I'm still holding out hope that she's Blue's alter ego. Maybe Blue split herself and her dark side is locked up somewhere! In S6, anything can happen!

That would be fun.  But knowing these Writers, more likely is the Black Fairy is Rumple's mother, and that's why he was so angry at the Fairies, for taking his mother away from him, and maybe driving her to become evil, perhaps in response to Blue's curfew policy.

[Camera One]

Now that we know the full Dark One mythology (snerk), there's something I don't get from "The Return" in Season 1:

Quote

BLUE: I can't make him the man he was before, but I can send him someplace where he won't be able to use his powers.
BAELFIRE: Not a jail.  I want to be with him, like it used to be.
BLUE: Not a jail, young one, just a place without magic.
BAELFIRE: But magic is everywhere.
BLUE: In this world, yes.  You see, what ails your father is specific to our realm.  His powers do not belong here.  You must go where you can escape this wretched curse.

Blue said that "his powers do not belong here".  But Nimue was created in the Enchanted Forest, in Camelot.  That's where the vault of the Dark One is.  If the Dark One's powers "do not belong here", then wouldn't that also be the case with Merlin's good power?  Rumple also seems to have power in whatever land has magic, not just in "our realm".

This conversation makes it even more nonsensical why they didn't throw Rumple over the Town Line in the 4B finale.  Could Dark Emma have asked Dark Hook to go live in the World Without Magic, heck, build a house just across the line, and they can visit with Henry and her parents anytime.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Camera One

[Camera One]

So is there magic in The Land Without Magic now?  Just because of the Fountain Belief Scene?  I thought that was based on wishing for the heroes to come back from The Land of Untold Stories.  I mean, how did The Evil Queen generate the magic to apparate in front of The Dragon, and to pull out his heart?  Technically, shouldn't she be unable to do that?  I'm just thinking about how she's going to get into Storybrooke.  They let her in with the Snow Queen's scroll?  

Edited June 5, 2016 by Camera One

[InsertWordHere]

On 6/5/2016 at 3:02 PM, Camera One said:

So is there magic in The Land Without Magic now?

To quote Rumple, there is and there isn't. 

[Rumsy4]

Quote

I'm just thinking about how she's going to get into Storybrooke.  They let her in with the Snow Queen's scroll?  

To quote Rumple again, "Your questions are pointless."

[InsertWordHere]

21 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

To quote Rumple again, "Your questions are pointless."

To quote myself (and probably many others), "This show is incredibly frustrating."

[Mitch]

On 6/5/2016 at 2:02 PM, Camera One said:

So is there magic in The Land Without Magic now?  Just because of the Fountain Belief Scene?  I thought that was based on wishing for the heroes to come back from The Land of Untold Stories.  I mean, how did The Evil Queen generate the magic to apparate in front of The Dragon, and to pull out his heart?  Technically, shouldn't she be unable to do that?  I'm just thinking about how she's going to get into Storybrooke.  They let her in with the Snow Queen's scroll?  

Well, you see Eddy and Adam wanted a scene where the EQ could float around, materialize and pull out the Dragon's hearts, so all of a sudden we are a Land With Magic, "....Cause you see, we wanted that scene you see...yea so it goes against the small amount of rules we created, it was getting hard to figure out how to do things in New York without magic...so..." I wonder if anyone on the writing staff or the network says, "This makes no sense and it goes against the whole structure of the show...for one scene to work..."

I thought it would have been funnier to have the EQ have to take a cab (pawning her jewels) or walk over to the Dragon's place...through the gay hood I hope with other drag queens giving the EQ the stink eye....EQ "Get OUT of my WAY, extremely large women..I AM the QUEEN....follow me as my acolytes or DIE!" Drag Queen,.."Now she knows how to throw SHADE!"

It would have worked much better and made more "sense" if the Dragon was really bad and he gave the potion to Regina and encouraged her to take it (leaving Emma and Snow not guilty of extreme stupidity) so that he could have the "very heart of evil" to either do bad things...or after unleashing her the EQ turns on him..that might make sense is this nonsensical world that the EQ was brought about by the Dragon's magic, not just a magical being who can use magic in New York.

But then, there are the flying monkeys...SIGH!

Edited June 9, 2016 by Mitch

[KingOfHearts]

So all that speculation about Emma being innately magical was kind of rendered moot. She was able to cause sparks because there actually is magic in LWM.

[Shanna Marie]

4 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

So all that speculation about Emma being innately magical was kind of rendered moot. She was able to cause sparks because there actually is magic in LWM.

Except Ingrid couldn't do magic in the land without magic, and she was very frustrated and surprised by this. Rumple was without powers when outside Storybrooke. They can't even take the approach of you have to believe in magic for it to work because Ingrid believed in magic and expected it to work for her, and it didn't.

[KingOfHearts]

21 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Except Ingrid couldn't do magic in the land without magic, and she was very frustrated and surprised by this. Rumple was without powers when outside Storybrooke. They can't even take the approach of you have to believe in magic for it to work because Ingrid believed in magic and expected it to work for her, and it didn't.

What Emma did was very minimal though. It has never been proved on the show that she could do magic in LWM if she tried. The sparks could have been what very little magic was in the realm reacting to her feelings. There isn't enough magic to say, turn someone into an icy statue. When Emma intentionally casts a spell in a place with little or no magic, I'll believe she's innately magical. But she hasn't.

Edited June 9, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[pezgirl7]

I thought the LWM always had magic. We saw it with the dragon in season one, with Walsh turning into a monkey, and with Emma's sparks. The dragon said:

"Just because the boy destroyed Storybrooke's magic doesn't mean there isn't any in this world. " "There's magic everywhere if you're willing to see it. " "If you want to find magic, remember... what he taught you. You have to believe."

It doesn't really explain why Ingrid couldn't do magic, but I don't think it's a total retcon.
 

[Camera One]

They basically gave themselves enough wiggle room with that vague statement for anything to be explained.  I guess Rumple just couldn't "see it" when he was in NYC with Ursula.

[Shanna Marie]

Rumple didn't believe his magic would work in the outside world. After all, that's why he spent a century or more trying to find a way to get there when supposedly portals wouldn't work (never mind that both Ingrid and the Apprentice seem to have made it). But Ingrid didn't realize that she'd gone to a Land Without Magic and tried to use magic, expecting it to work.

Though Rumple did have some kind of physical evidence, since his damaged leg didn't work in the outside world. Now that won't work, since Hook healed him (ironic that Hook's most lasting legacy from being the Dark One was healing the injury of his enemy -- that's why I think Hook should get his hand back. If as Dark One he healed his enemy and it lasted with no ill effects, and he wasn't even responsible for his enemy's injury, then he deserves for his enemy to heal his injury that his enemy caused, this time with no strings or mind games).

[Camera One]

I don't believe that Rumple would have been able to do Dark One-level magic, even if he had "believed".  

[Shanna Marie]

11 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I don't believe that Rumple would have been able to do Dark One-level magic, even if he had "believed".  

Unless the writers had needed him to for the plot to work. Then he could have done anything.

[Camera One]

He was magicking up a storm up in that hotel room powered by Storybrooke's magic.  What was he doing to the box to try to open it exactly?  What would be an alternative to True Love's Kiss?

[Shanna Marie]

13 hours ago, Mathius said:

The curse getting broken at the end of S1 was fine.  Completely unrestricted magic coming to Storybrooke was not.  That's what did the show in.

I don't think unrestricted magic can be blamed for all the show's problems, though fixing that would have fixed a lot. But I've been thinking about how it could have worked better. For one thing, it seems rather un-Rumple-like to restore magic in a way that brings it to everyone rather than keeping it to himself. I think what they were trying for was him making the World Without Magic into a World With Magic so he could have his powers, and he did seem to think it would apply to the whole world rather than just to Storybrooke, but given his desire to have more power than anyone else, wouldn't he have tried to make it so that he had power -- like maybe a potion he drank that made him a portable World with Magic -- rather than giving power to everyone?

I kind of like the idea of Emma having inherent power, but I wish she'd developed that more over time and it wasn't just the big jazz hands thing. I like the way they were tying it to her emotions and the way it was a love power, where she could only tap into it when she was feeling love, so it only worked when she was protecting someone she loved. They've lost that with having her be able to just wave her hand and do anything. I'm still pissed about them making the Savior be a general thing. It worked better for me when it was a possible unintended side effect of Rumple's back door into the curse and True Love potion for bringing back magic, so that Emma was only the Savior for that one curse, but the magic power relating to love came with that (and would ultimately be Rumple's undoing).

The big problem with the plotting and magic coming back was instantly giving Regina her full powers back, and then constantly adding to them so that she could do anything Emma could do. Maybe she had some magical aptitude, but say she had to keep topping herself off from the book, and she noticed that worked differently in this world, so that each time she topped off her powers, a page went blank, so she had to start being careful how she used her powers. The same thing could have applied to Cora when she came to town, which would have really motivated her attempt to be the Dark One, if she either had to fight Regina for the dwindling book power or become the Dark One and have unlimited power. Other stuff, like Zelena's spell or Ingrid's spell, would require serious ritual with lots of hard-to find objects that had power of their own.

So, I would define exactly what the Dark One power could do and maybe have it work differently in this world. Emma would have a learning curve about her power, and it would only work well when she was acting out of love. Regina would have to be very careful about how she used her power. Rare magical objects plus power plus ritual would be required for any major magical workings. The fairies could stay the same, since they're basically useless, anyway, with or without power. It would be interesting to see how new magical villains coped when coming to our world and finding that their magic doesn't work the same way.

[Camera One]

RUMPLE: You really think the Shears of Destiny work only on the Savior?

So let me get this straight.  These all-powerful "Shears of Destiny" can cut away any pesky "destiny" you don't want fulfilled!  And they were in Storybrooke all along.  Aladdin got to keep them and they didn't end up in Gold's Shop?  

Rumple was stupid enough to tell The Evil Queen that the Shears could do more.  So what about the destiny that villains don't get a happy ending.  Can The Evil Queen use the Shears of Destiny to cut away that inevitability when she's defeated or re-absorbed?  

[Curio]

Don't forget, the shears can also pick locks that were destined to stay locked!

I'm still really confused about what Rumple's end game is. When Regina was giving her speech to Rumple, I thought she was going to say, "Oh, you want to use them to cut away your darkness." And then they went with cutting away Belle and Damien's fates instead. What does that even mean? How do you even make the shears do that? I feel like there has to be something that physically gets cut for the magic shears to work. Like, if Emma wants to cut away her Saviorness, then she has to pluck out a piece of her hair and use the shears on it. If Rumple wants to do something to Belle, he'll have to steal a strand of her hair or something. But because TS;TW, all they probably have to do is hold the shears up and say some magic line.

[Camera One]

If The Shears of Destiny has so many multiple uses, isn't it dumb of Jafar to just give them to Aladdin (and not take them back)?   Why didn't he just cut Aladdin's destiny away, if Rumple can do that to Belle and Baby.

[YaddaYadda]

9 minutes ago, Camera One said:

If The Shears of Destiny has so many multiple uses, isn't it dumb of Jafar to just give them to Aladdin (and not take them back)?   Why didn't he just cut Aladdin's destiny away, if Rumple can do that to Belle and Baby.

The price of magic?

No wait...

[KingOfHearts]

So apparently in the Enchanted Forest, there are people who believe magic does not exist. (See: Cinderella talking to a mouse dressed like a person.) If magic is considered a rarity or legend, let's see how many regular users/hoarders exist. There's Blue, Tinkerbell, Nova, the Black Fairy, the other fairies, Regina, Rumple, Cora, Fendrake the Healer, The Blind Witch, the Knights of the Round Table, Maleficent, Ursula, Cruella, Jefferson, Pan, Sidney, the werewolves, the Siren, Ariel, Midas, the Seer, the Lady of the Lake, the giants, Pinocchio, and Hades. That's just a list of people who did their business in EF, not exclusively other realms. In the past, magic seemed like common knowledge. In 4A, Arendelle seemed pretty unexposed to it for only being a day's trip away from Misthaven. I'm not really sure how you miss the Evil Queen or Rumple, for how well-known he is. (Even Arendelle knew of him.)

Cinderella had to be extremely sheltered. Lady Tremaine didn't seem to find magic that alien at all.

Edited December 4, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Cinderella had to be extremely sheltered. Lady Tremaine didn't seem to find magic that alien at all.

They can't even keep the worldbuilding consistent IN A SINGLE EPISODE.  These Writers have powers.

[KingOfHearts]

Magic always has a punishment price, but only when it comes to genie wishes.

Edited December 7, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

2 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

Last season, when Regina asked Emma to heal Robin and the talking head told her she needed to take a price for the magic, and Emma decided to break the rules which ended up costing her a lot, it got me wondering if that's the reason the Dark One makes deals.

Like Snowing went to Rumple a lot for his help in the flashbacks, and Cinderella signed a contract with him, and all of this got me wondering if the Dark One doesn't ask for a price/makes a deal because he's the one who is the purveyor of the magic. I don't know if it makes sense, but it's something that the writers could have easily explained when they did the terrible job on the Dark One mythology. 

Bringing this discussion over to this thread.

That's a good solution to the problem, YaddaYadda.  Probably more than A&E has thought about it.  They probably only had Rumple made deals because that was part of the original story of Rumplestiltskin, and also because they love hearing Rumple's giggle.

Though I'm also thinking of all the times Rumple does magic for little things, not for someone else, but for himself and for convenience.  It is quite a lot, and none of that is accounted for.

Edited December 11, 2016 by Camera One

[Camera One]

In the Snow White movie, the Evil Queen had to mix a potion to give her the Hag appearance, which stuck around.  It required a bit more work and wasn't instantaneous, and I think this would have been better than the oh-so-easy Glamour spell that villains can do at the drop of a hat on "Once". 

[Camera One]

It's Season 6... they really should have already converted Regina's Vault, or the Library basement, or the Convent, into a state-of-the-art potions and magical control center and magical threat monitoring station with all the magical objects and books they need to weather any storm.   It's ridiculous that they have zero coordinated response and continue to run around like chickens with their heads cut off using 80s technology and begging for help from the local evil overlord.  

Regina's Vault was broke into by The Evil Queen, yet they have done nothing to enhance security and now even a common thief like Robin Hood could enter?  

Why isn't Henry trying to write Gideon's story instead of going canoeing?  Why isn't anyone trying to track him down, research his weakness, or prepare for his next attack?  The next time he has a sword, they'll have to go to her compromised mother for advice?  Is Regina not worried that the Evil Snake will escape?  Shouldn't she be trying to figure out how to eliminate the problem?  Couldn't they use the Black Fairy wand to send Robin back to the Wish Realm before he causes more problems?  

How was Charming's father's ghost showing up in Storybrooke?  Shouldn't he be showing up next episode too, because Charming hasn't really found the real killer?  

Edited March 19, 2017 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

The magic system is too general. Certain wielders should have had specialized in certain types of magic, like how Elsa and Ingrid were ice witches. Ripping out hearts should have been Cora's signature, but then freaking Nimue knew to do it somehow. If there were different kinds of magics, it wouldn't be such a question of who's stronger. Some wielders could counter others, such as a fire mage working effectively against an ice wizard. The writers touched on that a little with Zelena's weakness to light magic, but it was never explained why she had that. Cruella's magic was special, and she was able to use it against Maleficent. But then there's people like Rumple, Regina, Cora, Zelena, Pan, Emma, and Merlin, who utilize practically any skill.

Magic needs limits beyond "coming with a price".

[Camera One]

They clearly never learned their lesson.  Gideon can pretty much do everything, and taste-test tea too.  Except when he can't and he has to run to the forest for an episode.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

6 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

The writers touched on that a little with Zelena's weakness to light magic, but it was never explained why she had that.

She didn't even consistently have that, given that she was able to knock Emma on her ass.

Not to mention, they've never defined the difference between dark and light magic. Everything Rumple does, even if it's good and helpful, is apparently dark magic, but when Regina uses magic for good, acting out of love, it apparently can sometimes be light magic. Or not. And light magic is apparently different from dark magic when it comes to being able to take Zelena's necklace, but otherwise most of the time you can't tell the difference other than with the color of the poofs, and usually dark seems to be more powerful than light.

5 hours ago, Camera One said:

Gideon can pretty much do everything, and taste-test tea too.  Except when he can't and he has to run to the forest for an episode.

And yet he for some reason thinks he needs to become the Savior, even though he's already superpowered. Maybe he needs some of that light magic. But can it be light magic if you kill to get it, or does that make it dark magic?

They aren't even entirely consistent with Elsa -- she supposedly shrank the Jolly Roger enough to put it in a bottle (catching and shrinking Ariel in the process), which doesn't have anything to do with ice.

Being able to do anything the plot or the writers need the characters to do doesn't make for a very interesting magical system.

[KAOS Agent]

What magical system? These writers don't even try. Half the time I watch something and wonder why they don't just use X spell we've seen them use before. We've seen Regina wipe Henry's memory with a wave of her hand. We saw Ingrid do this too. How come Rumpel needs tea to do this? Why didn't Gideon freeze Emma and then stab her with the sword? Why didn't Rumpel/Regina/Zelena just turn the Evil Queen into a fluffy teddy bear like we saw Regina do to the Flying Monkey? Why doesn't Rumpel simply de-age Gideon and hand the baby over to Belle? It just irritates me to have these magical actions easily done and then never duplicated like it was never a solution used before.

[Camera One]

28 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

And, you know, you've got some potentially icky issues if you combine this show's memory tea with the "moon tea" on Game of Thrones. But it would be right up their alley, given their attitude toward consent and agency.

It looks like the memory tea can be drunk without someone's knowledge.

Regina made a no-pregnancy potion herself.  I wonder if that has to be drunk willingly.  Never mind, Snow drank it from King George without consenting.

Sleeping Curse originally had to be taken willingly.  That's why Regina forced Snow to bite the apple willingly, Henry ate the turnover willingly, Belle did it to herself willingly.  Though I seem to remember someone getting the Sleeping Curse without agreeing to it.

[Shanna Marie]

16 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Though I seem to remember someone getting the Sleeping Curse without agreeing to it.

Aurora, maybe? And yet it was supposedly the same curse Regina swapped the Dark Curse for to use in the apple on Snow. Now I can't quite remember the blink-and-you'll miss it key scene about Aurora and Maleficent, which was buried in a Regina backstory. I can't bring myself to rewatch that episode because it's kind of hard to stomach.

Oh! The horse surely couldn't have consented to the sleeping curse.

[Camera One]

11 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Aurora, maybe? And yet it was supposedly the same curse Regina swapped the Dark Curse for to use in the apple on Snow. Now I can't quite remember the blink-and-you'll miss it key scene about Aurora and Maleficent, which was buried in a Regina backstory. I can't bring myself to rewatch that episode because it's kind of hard to stomach.

You're right, it doesn't seem she agreed.  Here's the script.  Reading it now, the writing just sounds so simplistic.

----------

AURORA: My mother defeated you, as shall I.  All it will take is what I have and you never will.

MALEFICENT: True love?  Don't count on it.  I have my own quite special curse in mind for your Prince Philip.

Maleficent stabs Aurora's finger.

AURORA: No!

REGINA: That was inspired.

MALEFICIENT: Well, it never would've happened if it wasn't for you.  You reminded me of what who I am.  Thank you.

 

Edited March 24, 2017 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

Aurora's lack of willingness doesn't line up with S2 either. Mulan asked her how she got cursed, and she replied, "You're not the only one who knows about sacrifice." Being forcefully put under wasn't sacrifice. It wasn't a choice. She made it sound like she did the same thing Snow did, but for Philip or another loved one.

[Camera One]

9 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Aurora's lack of willingness doesn't line up with S2 either. Mulan asked her how she got cursed, and she replied, "You're not the only one who knows about sacrifice." Being forcefully put under wasn't sacrifice. It wasn't a choice. She made it sound like she did the same thing Snow did, but for Philip or another loved one.

They probably didn't rewatch S2 when they wrote that line in 4B.  Because who cares about continuity when you're writing 'How Maleficent Got Her Groove Back".

[andromeda331]

On ‎3‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 0:50 PM, Camera One said:

They probably didn't rewatch S2 when they wrote that line in 4B.  Because who cares about continuity when you're writing 'How Maleficent Got Her Groove Back".

How nice that Maleficent returned to her evil ways. Its always so nice when villains find their way back.

[Camera One]

So I was thinking about this show today (very dangerous and not advisable)... I was wondering how Fetus Gideon was able to TLK Belle through the placenta and from within a dream world?  So could Snowing have TLK'd each other inside the Burning Room dream?  Adult Shady Gideon only existed AFTER he was born and was raised by The Black Fairy.  Did he travel back in time to his Fetus era to talk to Belle?    I mean, I'm sure this will be explained later in Season 6 (snerk) but I'm still curious.