Madison Clark: Eloquent Nonchalance

[HalcyonDays]

Here is your thread to discuss Madison Clark, high school teacher and mom of Nick and Alicia, who in her already hectic life, gets to deal with zombies.

[CletusMusashi]

Their insistence on making it a family drama bodes poorly for her, because none of her good acting moments are with family members. If they want to do a show starring her, the cop that she yelled at, and little fat Tobias, that might be a good series. But the thought of a whole series filled with the interactions of Madison with Nick,Travis, more Nick, and Alicia simply does not fill me with excitement.

[GreyBunny]

It's a shame she won't be the next one eaten.  She's Lori and the worst parts of Andrea combined.  Ugh.

[CletusMusashi]

Spoilered for TWD References:

Must.. fight.. urge... to...

make jokes about Andrea 2.0 hooking up with The Governator

.

Edited August 26, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[kj4ever]

It's a shame she won't be the next one eaten.  She's Lori and the worst parts of Andrea combined.  Ugh.

OMG this is the perfect post!  Usually I like to think that it is just the writing, but that actress is just BAD.

[Yolapukka]

I've usually liked Kim Dickens when she's popped up in various roles, but she's really flat in this. If the ads didn't scream Major character/lead(!), I'd assume she was walker-bait. Unless the character improves drastically I think I'm going to be mumbling "no-one is safe" when she's onscreen. I don't hate the character but so far she's just a blank, barely reactive every(wo)man. I think it would have been much better if she and the family weren't such central casting cliches of the typically dysfunctional disaster movie family and if they weren't trying to to make us like her on account of being a nice person because I don't really care about that quality in apocalyptic fiction. 

[Ohwell]

Kim Dickens will always be Joanie Stubbs on "Deadwood" to me.  (I didn't see "Gone Girl" and never will.  Hated the book.)  I just don't see her in a lead role because she's kind of wooden-acting and -looking. 

[Bongo Fury]

Joanie had one of my favorite lines of all times on any show. Some one dropped an F bomb (maybe Calamity Jane) and said 'pardon my French' and she replied 'that's OK, I speak French'.

[truelovekiss]

This is an absurdly little, inconsequential nitpick. But it drives me crazy when they give characters names that are trendy now, but don't suit the age of the character. How many 50 year old women are named Madison? (Going by Kim Dickens birth year 1965) Madeline, I could get behind. Allison, absolutely. But Madison wasn't even on the SSA top 1000 names until the 80s. Sorry, I know it's really irrelevant, but I think details like that are important for story telling.

[Ohwell]

This is an absurdly little, inconsequential nitpick. But it drives me crazy when they give characters names that are trendy now, but don't suit the age of the character. How many 50 year old women are named Madison? (Going by Kim Dickens birth year 1965) Madeline, I could get behind. Allison, absolutely. But Madison wasn't even on the SSA top 1000 names until the 80s. Sorry, I know it's really irrelevant, but I think details like that are important for story telling.

I was thinking the same thing.  That name just doesn't make sense.

[HalcyonDays]

I was thinking the same thing.  That name just doesn't make sense.

 

I remember reading that the name Madison for girls became trendy after the 1980s movie Splash became a hit. Madison in the movie (played by Daryl Hannah) named herself Madison, from the New York street sign - Madison avenue. Before that, they said it was never (or rarely) used as a girl's name.

[Raven1707]

I'm unfamiliar with the actress, so I admit I had no reservoir of good will towards her coming into the show, but neither did I have the slightest antipathy. After watching the Pilot four times -- as any red-blooded zombie fan might do -- I remain undecided. It could still go either way. (For the record, I never hated Lori or Andrea...)

 

Although...regarding the notion that the character suffers from "resting bitch face," I strongly suspect that this particular bitch face never rests.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Raven1707

[truelovekiss]

I remember reading that the name Madison for girls became trendy after the 1980s movie Splash became a hit. Madison in the movie (played by Daryl Hannah) named herself Madison, from the New York street sign - Madison avenue. Before that, they said it was never (or rarely) used as a girl's name.

Exactly. I checked the ssa list (lol I'm a total name nerd) and it didn't hit the top 1000 until 1985, when Kim Dickens (or Madison Clark) would have been 20 years old. And back then, it was much less common for someone to have a name off the top 1000 than it is now. I know it's super nitpicky, but I roll my eyes when I see a character that has a name that would have been unheard of at the time of their birth. It just seems like sloppy writing to me.

[Ohwell]

Plus, she doesn't even look like a Madison; she looks more like a "Joanie Stubbs," as in Deadwood.

[Bongo Fury]

... It just seems like sloppy writing to me.

 

This is a TWD spinoff. You're surprised by sloppy and/or inconsistent writing? Have you not been watching for 5 years? That sums up this franchise in a thumbnail.

[truelovekiss]

This is a TWD spinoff. You're surprised by sloppy and/or inconsistent writing? Have you not been watching for 5 years? That sums up this franchise in a thumbnail.

Very true! :) this is really just the tip of the sloppy iceberg.

[CletusMusashi]

Bear in mind, these writers aren't exactly famous for their ability to give people age-appropriate names.

[Nashville]

Does that mean about 1/4 of the high school graduating Class of 2027 males will be named Coral?

[nodorothyparker]

The only thing this character has on Lori is that at least for the moment she knows where her kids are.

[Yolapukka]

Last week I was putting even money on whether Nick was supposed to survive the season or if the sole reason for his presence was someone to die, so everyone else could have a sad. This week I'm leaning more towards Madison. She seems to be the one making the most dumb mistakes. 

Edited August 31, 2015 by yuggapukka

[GreyBunny]

After watching the 2nd episode I hate her even more.  She's stupid, she's a walking headache, so of course she's a main character who is going to live.  Ugh.  Maybe that's why she hasn't gotten the "flu" yet, even viruses think she's too annoying to deal with. 

She may know where her kids are (vs Lori) but that's not much of a consolation - she left her son who was having withdrawals alone with her obnoxious eye-rolling daughter.  She didn't even blink when said daughter told her that Nick was having seizures.  Hate. Her.

 

Then, even after seeing the druggie guy reanimate, she forgets what she's seen and tries to "help" the zombie principal and almost gets Tobias killed in the process.  Hate. Her. Even. More.  Tobias should have just left her with the principal, grabbed the food, and run.  She wasn't worth the effort.

 

This is an absurdly little, inconsequential nitpick. But it drives me crazy when they give characters names that are trendy now, but don't suit the age of the character. How many 50 year old women are named Madison? (Going by Kim Dickens birth year 1965) Madeline, I could get behind. Allison, absolutely. But Madison wasn't even on the SSA top 1000 names until the 80s. Sorry, I know it's really irrelevant, but I think details like that are important for story telling.

Thank you.  I complained about this in the episode thread, she's way too old to have the name Madison.  That combined with calling her boyfriend "Babe" makes her sound like a trashy Dance Moms reject. 

Edited August 31, 2015 by GreyBunny

[Yolapukka]

The actress if fifty, but I have no idea how old the character is supposed to be.  And I don't think Madison even existed as a first name until the movie Splash.  Daryl Hannah's character has to make up a name, and she happens to be standing on Madison Ave, so she picked that as a name.

 

 

 

I can buy (sort of) the idea that Madison is a possible name for the character even it is very off-trend for someone of her generation. There have always been people who named their children, male or female, after places, like Florence Nightingale and her sister Parthe,  there have also been people that named their children with a family surname, usually from the mother's side. That said, I don't care for the name. Girl names that end in the the son/syn sound tend to irritate me, with a possible exception for Allison and that only because of a childhood friend.

[Nashville]

We're only two episodes in, and already I'm seeing in multiple threads the same general descriptions - dull, flat, lifeless, wooden, stupid - being applied to Maddie's character, and being attributed to either bad acting or bad writing. I would like to suggest an alternative interpretation: Kim Dickens is skillfully portraying the character exactly as written, and the character of Madison Clark was intentionally written that way for specific reasons - reasons which have not yet been revealed.

Pulled from the S1Ep2 thread:

I didn't think she was acting like it was no big deal. She's obviously not the over-the-top, screaming, hysterical type (which I could honestly do with less of), but she was crying in the bathroom when she got home. I think she's freaked out, but she's trying to hold it together for her kids.

This is IMHO the closest to a good description I've read yet of Maddie, and it doesn't go very far. At this stage of her character development, one word best describe Madison Clark: Rigid. Maddie is a person who strives to keep all aspects of personal expression - speech, emotional expression, body language, etc. - rigidly controlled. She also displays a similar rigidity of thought; although not in outright denial when the evidence of her own senses contradicts her preconceived notions of normalcy, she clings to those notions right up to the point where failure to acknowledge constitutes a direct and immediate threat to survival and sometimes her interpretation of that point is distressingly vague. When pushed to that absolute brink, she can act to protect herself and others - but afterwards she will still keep a tight stopper on the bottle of her emotions as long as she can, until they will no longer be contained - and even then, she will attempt to moderate that expression of emotion as much as she can.

I've known many people like this, and I've frequently found their insistence upon rigid control of everything in life is an inverse reaction to having initially grown up in a chaotic, abusive environment. The abusers may cry, scream, laugh and shout all they want - but let their children do the same, and their expressions of emotion are answered with beatings and other abuse. In such an environment the child quickly learns overt emotional display = pain; therefore, no emotional display = no pain. Likewise the desperate clinging to what is "normal"; loud chaos is associated in their minds with pain, so quiet control = no pain.

At present I have little doubt in my mind Maddie was a victim of abuse - and I really want to see how her backstory evolves through the series, because:

• I bet this explains her attraction to Travis. Travis seems to have a relatively cheerful and easygoing nature in direct contrast to Maddie's sharp and controlled nature, and I think Maddie wants to learn from Travis a more relaxed view of life than she ever had the opportunity to learn for herself.
• If she did pull herself out of such a nightmarish childhood, I'd bet my bottom dollar her kids don't have a clue about it. I think their nonchalant narcissism stems at least in part from a coddled, overprotective upbringing - Maddie trying to provide them with the sort of easy, carefree childhood she never had. And part just because... well... they're teenagers, for crying out loud. How many spoiled teenagers did you ever meet who weren't convinced the world revolved around them? :)

[NurseGiGi]

We're only two episodes in, and already I'm seeing in multiple threads the same general descriptions - dull, flat, lifeless, wooden, stupid - being applied to Maddie's character, and being attributed to either bad acting or bad writing. I would like to suggest an alternative interpretation: Kim Dickens is skillfully portraying the character exactly as written, and the character of Madison Clark was intentionally written that way for specific reasons - reasons which have not yet been revealed.

Pulled from the S1Ep2 thread:

This is IMHO the closest to a good description I've read yet of Maddie, and it doesn't go very far. At this stage of her character development, one word best describe Madison Clark: Rigid. Maddie is a person who strives to keep all aspects of personal expression - speech, emotional expression, body language, etc. - rigidly controlled. She also displays a similar rigidity of thought; although not in outright denial when the evidence of her own senses contradicts her preconceived notions of normalcy, she clings to those notions right up to the point where failure to acknowledge constitutes a direct and immediate threat to survival and sometimes her interpretation of that point is distressingly vague. When pushed to that absolute brink, she can act to protect herself and others - but afterwards she will still keep a tight stopper on the bottle of her emotions as long as she can, until they will no longer be contained - and even then, she will attempt to moderate that expression of emotion as much as she can.

I've known many people like this, and I've frequently found their insistence upon rigid control of everything in life is an inverse reaction to having initially grown up in a chaotic, abusive environment. The abusers may cry, scream, laugh and shout all they want - but let their children do the same, and their expressions of emotion are answered with beatings and other abuse. In such an environment the child quickly learns overt emotional display = pain; therefore, no emotional display = no pain. Likewise the desperate clinging to what is "normal"; loud chaos is associated in their minds with pain, so quiet control = no pain.

At present I have little doubt in my mind Maddie was a victim of abuse - and I really want to see how her backstory evolves through the series, because:

• I bet this explains her attraction to Travis. Travis seems to have a relatively cheerful and easygoing nature in direct contrast to Maddie's sharp and controlled nature, and I think Maddie wants to learn from Travis a more relaxed view of life than she ever had the opportunity to learn for herself.
• If she did pull herself out of such a nightmarish childhood, I'd bet my bottom dollar her kids don't have a clue about it. I think their nonchalant narcissism stems at least in part from a coddled, overprotective upbringing - Maddie trying to provide them with the sort of easy, carefree childhood she never had. And part just because... well... they're teenagers, for crying out loud. How many spoiled teenagers did you ever meet who weren't convinced the world revolved around them? :)

 

Great post, Nashville, and I've been wondering the same thing myself.  I like Kim Dickens as an actress and think she's doing a good job so far.  I'm one of the few, I guess, who doesn't find her irritating and have found most of her reactions believable. Plus, I'm invested enough now to want to see how it plays out.

[Nashville]

The only thing this character has on Lori is that at least for the moment she knows where her kids are.

...and at least they'll stay IN THE DAMN HOUSE.

[anadyr21]

This is an absurdly little, inconsequential nitpick. But it drives me crazy when they give characters names that are trendy now, but don't suit the age of the character. How many 50 year old women are named Madison? (Going by Kim Dickens birth year 1965) Madeline, I could get behind. Allison, absolutely. But Madison wasn't even on the SSA top 1000 names until the 80s. Sorry, I know it's really irrelevant, but I think details like that are important for story telling.

 

 

I remember reading that the name Madison for girls became trendy after the 1980s movie Splash became a hit. Madison in the movie (played by Daryl Hannah) named herself Madison, from the New York street sign - Madison avenue. Before that, they said it was never (or rarely) used as a girl's name.

 

I may be showing my age a bit, but I remember seeing Splash in the theater.... on Long Island. When that scene came up, everyone fell out laughing. Though most people in that theater were probably from Long Island and (eastern) Queens, and I'd like to think we were fairly progressive, so, if we thought the name was ridiculous, I wonder how FTWD's Madison fared during her childhood.

 

 

Edited post:

At present I have little doubt in my mind Maddie was a victim of abuse - and I really want to see how her backstory evolves through the series, because:

• I bet this explains her attraction to Travis. Travis seems to have a relatively cheerful and easygoing nature in direct contrast to Maddie's sharp and controlled nature, and I think Maddie wants to learn from Travis a more relaxed view of life than she ever had the opportunity to learn for herself.
• If she did pull herself out of such a nightmarish childhood, I'd bet my bottom dollar her kids don't have a clue about it. I think their nonchalant narcissism stems at least in part from a coddled, overprotective upbringing - Maddie trying to provide them with the sort of easy, carefree childhood she never had. And part just because... well... they're teenagers, for crying out loud. How many spoiled teenagers did you ever meet who weren't convinced the world revolved around them? :)

 

In the first episode, she commented about Nick's addiction being "in the genes." If we extend that comment to your hypothesis, and throw in the use of a completely non-traditional name for her time-period, we may have a good psychoanalysis of this character. However, there's the old adage, "Keep It Simple, Stupid." I highly doubt that the writers have thought that hard about this. Yet, I'm now more interested in her backstory (and how she got that name), than I am in the actual show itself (which as I promised myself, I'm only reading the threads; I refuse to watch beyond episode 1).

[nodorothyparker]

...and at least they'll stay IN THE DAMN HOUSE.

 

Thanks only to Nick's conveniently timed seizure and puking.  When Alicia was heading out the door, we couldn't stop laughing.  Crap, it's another WD mom whose kids won't stay in the damned house when they're told to.

[Ohwell]

I don't care about a psychological profile of Madison Clark and I hope the show doesn't go to deeply into her backstory, or any of the other characters' stories, for that matter.  I'm not saying she has to be acting batshit crazy and hysterical, but it seems to me that she would show much more reaction to events than we've seen, besides crying in the bathroom that one time.  I just don't believe that Kim Dickens has enough emotional range to pull it off.   We'll see in later episodes when the shit really begins to hit the fan.

 

Contrast that to Liza, who when she finally got a sense of the danger at hand, reacted in a way that a normal person would, by getting the hell outta dodge.  I don't think she would have walked towards the principal had she been in that situation.

[kj4ever]

I may be showing my age a bit, but I remember seeing Splash in the theater.... on Long Island. When that scene came up, everyone fell out laughing. Though most people in that theater were probably from Long Island and (eastern) Queens, and I'd like to think we were fairly progressive, so, if we thought the name was ridiculous, I wonder how FTWD's Madison fared during her childhood.

 

 

Edited post:

In the first episode, she commented about Nick's addiction being "in the genes." If we extend that comment to your hypothesis, and throw in the use of a completely non-traditional name for her time-period, we may have a good psychoanalysis of this character. However, there's the old adage, "Keep It Simple, Stupid." I highly doubt that the writers have thought that hard about this. Yet, I'm now more interested in her backstory (and how she got that name), than I am in the actual show itself (which as I promised myself, I'm only reading the threads; I refuse to watch beyond episode 1).

The whole "I'm in for a world of shit, you know that, right?" from Nick to her seemed more like SHE KNOWS than she has just seen him go through it before.  I didn't get anything from her actions, but I think she just sucks.  It was the way Nick said it, almost intimately.

[GreyBunny]

I don't need her to be hysterical either but she should have a reaction, even just a facial expression, that goes beyond, "Did the dog just poop in the house?"

 

I can appreciate a character who is rigid, but she's unlikeable and ridiculously careless/stupid and those are her main problems.  I don't care about her family problems, I don't care that she might be hiding some deep, dark secret from her childhood or whatever.  Was there violence in her past?  Don't care.  I hope there's violence in her future where she gets eaten and very soon.

[Sakura12]

I can buy rigid and stoic if she was also intelligent or cunning or badass. But they've shown her be rigid, stoic and really really dumb. Those are not good combinations for a lead character. 

Edited September 1, 2015 by Sakura12

[Ohwell]

Has Kim Dickens ever been cast in a lead role before?  If not, that might be her main problem.  She just doesn't come off as "lead" to me, even on TV. 

[onlywearscardigans]

Kim Dickens is a tremendous actor and I cannot wait to see her stretch her legs in this role. A lot of what I'm seeing here though is people complaining that she is not reacting the way you want her to react. But think about how boring much more boring the character would be if she immediately knew what was happening and what she was doing. She is obviously going to grow into the strong leader of the group, which is infinity more interesting to watch than watching someone who has it all together.

[Tippi Blevins]

I thought both she and Travis had bizarrely subtle reactions to Cal coming back to life. "What's going on?" "I don't know." Said with all the shock and horror and confusion of people wondering why a certain brand of mustard was out of stock at the grocery store. They already seem inured to things, especially Madison. By the time she really gets used to the new world order, the sight of a zombie will flat out put her to sleep.

[SoSueMe]

I am liking the theories put out there by Nashville and anadyr21, they might allow me to overlook my considerable dislike for Madison.

As for her name, I think I first heard her being addressed as Maddie, so I assumed (wrongly) that her name was Madolyn.

I really wanted to love this show and I'm not giving up yet, but once other shows' new seasons start up I might not be so willing to invest the time.

[Ohwell]

I know that dress tends to be more casual nowadays, but do teachers really dress in tight-assed pants like Madison had on at school?  I know she's a guidance counselor and isn't in front of a classroom of students, but the tight pants just looked unprofessional.

[CletusMusashi]

Maybe when they get to the desert, the destination everybody seems to know to head for will be her family's hippie commune. So she's kind of an anti-Dharma.

Edited September 5, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[JBody]

I find her far more tolerable than most of the characters.  She was going to leave the house as soon as possible but Travis said no (then the army showed up next day and I do NOT think that's a good sign); she was going to hammer Susan the neighbour but Travis said no; she thought gun training for Travis' kid was a good idea but Travis said no...   I think she'd be just fine if she'd stop listening to the bordering-on-imbecilic Travis.

[kj4ever]

So during the scene with the ex Madison of course comes off like a total douche.  But what I don't understand, the look she has on her face when she's watching Susan.  Is it a grimmace?  Is it a smile?  Is she constipated?  It's creepy.  Where the hell did they get this actress from?  Maybe the botox will wear off by next season!

[Ohwell]

Honestly I don't for the life of me understand what Travis sees in her and why he left his ex-wife for her.  I would like a little bit of backstory on how they hooked up because it makes no sense.  I don't know if the ex was a bitch or something, but at least she has a pulse. 

[Yolapukka]

Fanwank; I don't think he left his ex, I think she ditched him, perhaps with temporary intent and he wound up getting close to Madison as a friend and colleague while she was mourning her husband.

 

"We were on a break!" -Ross Geller

Edited September 15, 2015 by yuggapukka

[Slider]

Either in an interview or a ComicCon panel, Elizabeth Rodriguez said that Liza left Travis. Can't imagine why, Mr. You Know How I Feel About Guns...

[Ohwell]

I thought he had left her because the son seems to be so angry at him.  Maybe the son thought they would reconcile.  

[HighMaintenance]

Hmmm.  Why would Travis be drawn to Madison?  Maybe Travis was looking for a life partner that was a little less "emotional". ;)

And what's not to love about those kids of Madison's?  Son's a junkie and the daughter is a self absorbed phone gazer that wants nothing more than to get the hell away from her family.

 

[Yolapukka]

I think the issues between the three adults come down to the kids, Liza and Chris probably feel, not without justification, that in order to integrate into Madison's life,Travis has made decisions that haven't been in the best interests of his relationship with his son. A big problem has to be Chris spending time around druggie Nick, I wouldn't want my kid exposed to his dangerous ways and Alicia is probably snotty to Chris, in an unwanted younger brother way, plus, he may or may not have made her uncomfortable with a crush. Chris seemed pissed off that his weekend with dad was going to consist of hanging around a hospital, thanks to Nick. Neither of the Clark kids seems completely accepting of Travis and I think that would extend to his son. I think Madison and Liza rub each other the wrong way because the blended family won't blend

[bosawks]

 the daughter is a self absorbed phone gazer that wants nothing more than to get the hell away from her family.

 

I think that's every teenage girl I've ever met.......

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Madison Clark's first step in surviving a ZA:  Play Monopoly, and always with a straight face.

[bosawks]

To be fair, does anyone ever smile while playing monopoly?

[Nashville]

Hmmm.  Why would Travis be drawn to Madison?  Maybe Travis was looking for a life partner that was a little less "emotional". ;)

And what's not to love about those kids of Madison's?  Son's a junkie and the daughter is a self absorbed phone gazer that wants nothing more than to get the hell away from her family.

Sorry to be crude here, but Maddie must be able to give BJs in eight dimensions at once, or vibrate like a tuning fork, or something in that ballpark. She has to be doing SOMETHING over-the-top unbelievably phenomenal, for someone else to put up with the rest of her bullshit and baggage.

[Ohwell]

She couldn't even manage much of a smile after the car sex.