S07.E15: Don't Be All, Like, Uncool

[Aspenemptynest]

I totally respect your decision to not use it. Lots of people don't. I use it like it's my job. It's my all time favorite word, and I've never worked for, met, or brushed up against P Diddy. I think the thing about using "bad" language is to respect your audience. I would have never in a million years used it in front of any of my grandparents because it literally would have hurt their soul to hear me curse in any manner. They were aware, however, of my love for it, because I'm not one to pretend to be something that I'm not. I also have a few friends who are deeply religious, and offended by any profanity. I would never dream of using a word that would offend them.  I think that is what Heather was saying. These girls curse all the time as well (we heard Ramona say to Carole "well you're fucking a 28 year old, and the interesting thing is that Lu used that exact same term when she was talking to Carole about Adam). They curse so they have zero business telling her anything.

 

And it's just my opinion. but just because someone doesn't like the word "fuck", but is OK with "shit", I don't worry about offending them at all with whatever I say. If they are up for using bad language, whatever they consider that to be, then they had better be up for me using mine. 

I completely agree.  My mom would probably have a heart attack if I said it in front of her, but sometimes it just feels REALLY good to use it! 

[breezy424]

I think that both Heather and Carole had more than just their privacy violated.  And I don't see the comparison between that and Heather and Carole walking into Ro and Sonja's room.  This was a stranger who was allowed to stay in a room on his own that was open to Heather and Carole's room while they were sleeping without their knowledge.  It doesn't take much of an imagination to understand what could have happened.

 

Should they have been woken to ask if it would be ok for this man to sleep in the adjoining room?  No.  Why should they be disturbed?  Call a cab for the guy if he didn't have a car.  There are plenty of 24 hour cab services there.  Or tell him he can sleep outside on a lounge chair.  But you don't give someone a room or allow him to have free range of a house when there are other people in the house who are not aware of the situation.  You don't do that.  Period. These are middle aged adults, not college kids (and even college kids more and more are wising up). And the 'expert' on class and manners, miss educated who won't allow her luggage and shoes out of her sight, and the 'take back that shit' and expert on decorum, and lastly, the one who expects everyone to cater to 'her' show, once again, that they're alcohol induced hypocrites.

 

Are the crew there 24/7?  No.  Filming was over once they left the dinner.  They can't follow the women into a place and film where they don't have prior permission.  Heather and Carole went back to the house and probably no filming was scheduled or the conversation was too 'dull'.  So they packed it in for the night.  If there was 24/7 filming, I'm sure someone would have been there with a camera when the rest came back from dancing.

 

If the shoe were on the other foot and it was a room adjoining Ro and Sonja?  I think Heather and Carole's reaction would pale in comparison. 

[motorcitymom65]

My guess about the way the filming of the scene is that the camera crews were not entirely ready to go when the whole deal started. Heather woke up saw him in bed and then said she went downstairs and he was there. I assume she told someone what was happening and they had to get upstairs and get the mics on Heather and Carole. I think it was all rushed and unexpected because clearly the production value was less than. It doesn't appear that they told Heather to do much waiting, because if they had, they could have done a better job of getting everything set up. We came in during the middle of the conversation between Heather and Carole, so she must have been railing against what was happening before they were even ready to film.

[AnnA]

When the season started, I wasn't sure I'd like Heather.   I've always liked Bethenny so based on the hype, I jumped the gun.  After watching her all season, I do like Heather and I'm sorry to hear that she's getting grief about her reaction on other sites.  I think she was 100% justified in being pissed about the naked man in the adjoining room.  

 

Whoever brought the naked man home doesn't really know him (except in the biblical sense).  LOL   He's a total stranger to all of them so saying that Ramona/LuAnn knew him is not accurate.  If Ramona, Sonja or LuAnn want to hook up with someone they just met, they can.  They're adults.  However, subjecting your housemates/friends to a naked total stranger in the adjoining room is just wrong.   They can try and spin it anyway they want to but it's not going to change the fact that they put everyone (including themselves) at risk.

[zoeysmom]

I think that both Heather and Carole had more than just their privacy violated.  And I don't see the comparison between that and Heather and Carole walking into Ro and Sonja's room.  This was a stranger who was allowed to stay in a room on his own that was open to Heather and Carole's room while they were sleeping without their knowledge.  It doesn't take much of an imagination to understand what could have happened.

 

Should they have been woken to ask if it would be ok for this man to sleep in the adjoining room?  No.  Why should they be disturbed?  Call a cab for the guy if he didn't have a car.  There are plenty of 24 hour cab services there.  Or tell him he can sleep outside on a lounge chair.  But you don't give someone a room or allow him to have free range of a house when there are other people in the house who are not aware of the situation.  You don't do that.  Period. These are middle aged adults, not college kids (and even college kids more and more are wising up). And the 'expert' on class and manners, miss educated who won't allow her luggage and shoes out of her sight, and the 'take back that shit' and expert on decorum, and lastly, the one who expects everyone to cater to 'her' show, once again, that they're alcohol induced hypocrites.

 

Are the crew there 24/7?  No.  Filming was over once they left the dinner.  They can't follow the women into a place and film where they don't have prior permission.  Heather and Carole went back to the house and probably no filming was scheduled or the conversation was too 'dull'.  So they packed it in for the night.  If there was 24/7 filming, I'm sure someone would have been there with a camera when the rest came back from dancing.

 

If the shoe were on the other foot and it was a room adjoining Ro and Sonja?  I think Heather and Carole's reaction would pale in comparison. 

I am curious what did they have violated besides their privacy.  Heather was startled.  Heather was offended.   The nude man did nothing to them-he didn't rape, them, sleep in their bed, steal their belongings, I don't believe he even spoke to Heather. He was naked and asleep.  Bethenny went to an art show and there were naked men and she seemed surprised. I can't define what other than their privacy being violated happened.  He didn't trespass-the room was not theirs and technically empty and he had the permission of one or more of the home's occupant's to sleep in the house.   If one were staying in a hotel and the adjacent connected room had been rented to someone else and the hotel had failed to secure the lock and one saw a naked man in his own room I guess the hotel would be on the hook for a free night's lodging and a lot of apologies.

 

I am thinking production hires livery for these ladies when they are on the island and I have no idea what the cab availability is on the island.  I am thinking the party  women  turned in closer to 6 am than 12 am just judging by how LuAnn and Ramona looked.  I wonder if it had been John from the restaurant if Heather would have had the same response?  So many questions.

[breezy424]

I am curious what did they have violated besides their privacy.  Heather was startled.  Heather was offended.   The nude man did nothing to them-he didn't rape, them, sleep in their bed, steal their belongings, I don't believe he even spoke to Heather. He was naked and asleep.  Bethenny went to an art show and there were naked men and she seemed surprised. I can't define what other than their privacy being violated happened.  He didn't trespass-the room was not theirs and technically empty and he had the permission of one or more of the home's occupant's to sleep in the house.   If one were staying in a hotel and the adjacent connected room had been rented to someone else and the hotel had failed to secure the lock and one saw a naked man in his own room I guess the hotel would be on the hook for a free night's lodging and a lot of apologies.

 

I am thinking production hires livery for these ladies when they are on the island and I have no idea what the cab availability is on the island.  I am thinking the party  women  turned in closer to 6 am than 12 am just judging by how LuAnn and Ramona looked.  I wonder if it had been John from the restaurant if Heather would have had the same response?  So many questions.

Heather and Carole were exposed to having all the things that you stated happen to them.  Did it happen?  Fortunately, no, but they were exposed to this while unaware that this stranger was there and they were sleeping which made them even more vulnerable.  That's much more than their privacy being violated.  Their right to security was violated.

 

The difference between a locked adjoining hotel room and a room with an adjoining bathroom is that the adjoining hotel room is just that:  Locked.  And I don't know anyone who stays in a hotel room with an adjoining room doesn't check to make sure that door is locked.  Just as they make sure the door to the room is locked and that metal thing you flip over is engaged when you go to bed.

 

Bottom line is that the house was being equally shared by all of them.  It wasn't a hotel where each person was 'renting' a room.  No one person is entitled to invite a stranger to stay in that house and have free range without permission from everyone else.   

[WireWrap]

I am curious what did they have violated besides their privacy.  Heather was startled.  Heather was offended.   The nude man did nothing to them-he didn't rape, them, sleep in their bed, steal their belongings, I don't believe he even spoke to Heather. He was naked and asleep.  Bethenny went to an art show and there were naked men and she seemed surprised. I can't define what other than their privacy being violated happened.  He didn't trespass-the room was not theirs and technically empty and he had the permission of one or more of the home's occupant's to sleep in the house.   If one were staying in a hotel and the adjacent connected room had been rented to someone else and the hotel had failed to secure the lock and one saw a naked man in his own room I guess the hotel would be on the hook for a free night's lodging and a lot of apologies.

 

I am thinking production hires livery for these ladies when they are on the island and I have no idea what the cab availability is on the island.  I am thinking the party  women  turned in closer to 6 am than 12 am just judging by how LuAnn and Ramona looked.  I wonder if it had been John from the restaurant if Heather would have had the same response?  So many questions.

They had their security violated and their trust in the other women badly shaken. We have no idea if this guy saw Heather/Carole sleeping, if he saw them through the open bathroom door if he used the joint bathroom before going to sleep. They had an exaptation of privacy from strangers and that was violated by Ramona because she put her itch before anyone else's welfare. That no one got hurt is a blessing but that does not remove the reality that something could have happened. JMO

[lunastartron]

So I guess it's a moral offense of the gravest order when Dorinda refers to her relationship with her own mother during an argument - and when LuAnn asks if Heather's attitudes apply consistently vis-a-vis Ella - but it's okay for Heather to shame Ramona's mothering behind her back by bringing Avery into her disgruntlement. "That's something you just don't do!" I understand Heather's irritation but not the extent to which it compels her to fantasize about her jewelry being stolen and to break down into tears. And color me crazy but I can fathom why a person who's probably still intoxicated from the previous night might respond a whisper defensively when one tears into her room, rips back the curtains, yells "get up!", and berates her before she's even managed to make the room stop spinning in her head. Was Ramona inconsiderate and entitled to the point of outrageousness? You bet; and that's her MO. LuAnn has also brought tricks back and harbored them in close proximity to Heather before (see: St. Barth's), so I don't see why it would be unthinkable that something similar might happen on the Turks and Caicos jaunt. I'm don't discount her aggravation over the specifics of this particular situation - although, if I were her, I would have probably just brushed it off since, again, the abstracts are not without comparable precedent - but the scenery-chewing histrionics are rather over the top, in my opinion.

[Katesus7]

I'm kind of flummoxed that this is a debate. I don't give a rats ass when or where camera crews are. I don't care when filming of Heather and Carole started. The argument that they should lock their door (which, do they even have locks on the open, adjoining bathroom to the other room in their suite?) based on nothing more than some man ended up there is ridiculous to me, because how on earth should they expect that? The argument that Heather is as entitled as Ramona is? Fuck yes, she's entitled. As is Carole. They're entitled to an explanation. They're entitled to an apology. They're entitled to say that dumping off a man in their suite because the other women couldn't be bothered with him is not OK.

I do not give one tiny little fuck that "nothing happened" so they should let it go. Things happen. Bad things happen. I never want to be in a position where I wake up and wonder what might have happened (even him looking at them while they were sleeping), or wondering if I still had all my things. Not OK. Ever.

Call me a prude, I am cool with that. But the other women should be apologizing, not all butthurt that they got woken up and are being questioned about what the hell happened. Quite frankly, I think with Dorinda, she was so drunk the night before she just doesn't remember any of it.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Katesus7

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

I am curious what did they have violated besides their privacy. 

 

They needed to do more? 

 

For the sake of argument, I'll add another offense. They also left them vulnerable to a stranger.

 

Are Heather and Carole justified now? 

[zoeysmom]

Heather and Carole were exposed to having all the things that you stated happen to them.  Did it happen?  Fortunately, no, but they were exposed to this while unaware that this stranger was there and they were sleeping which made them even more vulnerable.  That's much more than their privacy being violated.  Their right to security was violated.

 

The difference between a locked adjoining hotel room and a room with an adjoining bathroom is that the adjoining hotel room is just that:  Locked.  And I don't know anyone who stays in a hotel room with an adjoining room doesn't check to make sure that door is locked.  Just as they make sure the door to the room is locked and that metal thing you flip over is engaged when you go to bed.

 

Bottom line is that the house was being equally shared by all of them.  It wasn't a hotel where each person was 'renting' a room.  No one person is entitled to invite a stranger to stay in that house and have free range without permission from everyone else.   

 

I meet lots of men every year some of them get drunk.  I don't immediately assume they are going to rape or rob if they go to sleep in someone else's house.  BTW I think it is a good thing.  Sometimes it is just someone stranded or intoxicated who needs to sleep it off.  Heather has every right to be offended-I just don't think she has the right to imply she was in physical danger or her belongings were about to be stolen.

 

This group can't agree when or where to eat lunch there is no agreement implied or otherwise who can give permission for someone to stay over, use the bathroom or bunk down with one of the occupants.  Even Carole has said she is not a Golden Girl and bringing guys back would be cool, finding a man in bed with Ramona would be cool. The owner of the lease is Shed Media. 

 

They had their security violated and their trust in the other women badly shaken. We have no idea if this guy saw Heather/Carole sleeping, if he saw them through the open bathroom door if he used the joint bathroom before going to sleep. They had an exaptation of privacy from strangers and that was violated by Ramona because she put her itch before anyone else's welfare. That no one got hurt is a blessing but that does not remove the reality that something could have happened. JMO

I am not disagreeing they were offended.  If they desired security - lock the doors or close them. So security wasn't a priority for them.  They had been around this same group of women and this same group had gone out partying and brought men home.  So why did they expect a different result?  Worse this time they were under the same roof.  Using someone's bathroom when you are a guest in the home is not an offense-especially if you slept through it. This is devil's advocate stuff. Carole and Heather loathe  the other women so that ship has sailed.  It seems to me Heather was the one that saw someone sleeping.   Carole saying he had a small penis, accusing him of this or that of what might have happened.  He was naked he wasn't flashing anyone he was asleep.

 

A bigger reality is pushing the guy out of the house and getting a drunk person behind the wheel and having him kill himself or others and having this whole group embroiled in lawsuits. Reminds me of a little incident in Punta Canta when Bravo's favorite felonious HW caused a ruckus and a whole lot of them were sued. 

Edited July 13, 2015 by zoeysmom

[WireWrap]

So I guess it's a moral offense of the gravest order when Dorinda refers to her relationship with her own mother during an argument - and when LuAnn asks if Heather's attitudes apply consistently vis-a-vis Ella - but it's okay for Heather to shame Ramona's mothering behind her back by bringing Avery into her disgruntlement. "That's something you just don't do!" I understand Heather's irritation but not the extent to which it compels her to fantasize about her jewelry being stolen and to break down into tears. And color me crazy but I can fathom why a person who's probably still intoxicated from the previous night might respond a whisper defensively when one tears into her room, rips back the curtains, yells "get up!", and berates her before she's even managed to make the room stop spinning in her head. Was Ramona inconsiderate and entitled to the point of outrageousness? You bet; and that's her MO. LuAnn has also brought tricks back and harbored them in close proximity to Heather before (see: St. Barth's), so I don't see why it would be unthinkable that something similar might happen on the Turks and Caicos jaunt. I'm don't discount her aggravation over the specifics of this particular situation - although, if I were her, I would have probably just brushed it off since, again, the abstracts are not without comparable precedent - but the scenery-chewing histrionics are rather over the top, in my opinion.

Bring up an adult child is not uncommon on these shows, especially when someone just had their own elementary aged child thrown in her face the night before. So I guess you think that Heather should have just waited until Ramona sobered up, she would have had to wait until they got back to NY for that to have happened. LOL

 

Yes, LuAnn and Sonja both brought the pirate back to the house in St Barth's but Sonja stayed outside and LuAnn sent him home afterwards, he did NOT spend the night after either of those quickies AND Heather/Carole stayed in the separate guest house, not the main house.

 

ETA, LuAnn had her hook up go home , he did not stay like Ramona's did.

Edited July 13, 2015 by WireWrap

[zoeysmom]

They needed to do more? 

 

For the sake of argument, I'll add another offense. They also left them vulnerable to a stranger.

 

Are Heather and Carole justified now? 

I am thinking we need to stick with claims found in common law at best.  Vulnerable to a stranger just doesn't have any standing.

It is not about justification.  They are entitled to be offended.  They can ask for an explanation-they are not entitled to go through the house like storm troopers to get an explanation based on things that did not happen. 

 

To me where the whole show is going down the crapper is everyone gets so offended at everything and being ignored gets tears and crying and explanations and apologies and so when something big happens what is the next step?  We have already done tears, explanations and apologies for stupid crap so what do you with something that is a greater offense?  I don't know what the equalizer is but to me the have blown it on minutia and now when stuff gets serious what do they do?  I don't think Heather and Carole reducing themselves to a Ramona level is the answer.  Againt these are questions I want answered.  I mean I guess one breaks out with a case of Twitterhea and tell scerets and take jabs.

[WireWrap]

I meet lots of men every year some of them get drunk.  I don't immediately assume they are going to rape or rob of they go to sleep in someone else's house.  BTW I think it is a good thing.  Sometimes it is just someone stranded or intoxicated who needs to sleep it off.  Heather has every right to be offended-I just don't think she has the right to imply she was in physical danger or her belongings were about to be stolen.

 

This group can't agree when or where to eat lunch there is no agreement implied or otherwise who can give permission for someone to stay over, use the bathroom or bunk down with one of the occupants.  Even Carole has said she is not a Golden Girl and bringing guys back would be cool, finding a man in bed with Ramona would be cool. The owner of the lease is Shed Media. 

 

I am not disagreeing they were offended.  If they desired security - lock the doors or close them. So security wasn't a priority for them.  They had been around this same group of women and this same group had gone out partying and brought men home.  So why did they expect a different result?  Worse this time they were under the same roof.  Using someone's bathroom when you are a guest in the home is not an offense-especially if you slept through it. This is devil's advocate stuff. Carole and Heather loathe  the other women so that ship has sailed.  It seems to me Heather was the one that saw someone sleeping.   Carole saying he had a small penis, accusing him of this or that of what might have happened.  He was naked he wasn't flashing anyone he was asleep.

 

A bigger reality is pushing the guy out of the house and getting a drunk person behind the wheel and having him kill himself or others and having this whole group embroiled in lawsuits. Reminds me of a little incident in Punta Canta when Bravo's favorite felonious HW caused a ruckus and a whole lot of them were sued. 

The reality is that they, Heather/Carole, did not know what this guy saw or did while they were asleep. Nor do we. That Ramona  thought so little of their safety is beyond belief and is not defendable IMO. Heather and Carole are entitled to their feelings on this. Had the others allowed them to pop off/have their say, most likely they would have relaxed in a much shorter amount of time with no long lasting damage to the overall relationship between all of them. But NO, they had to justify their stupid behavior, deny they had anything to do with it, deny any knowledge AND deny that Heather/Carole had any real concerns. IMO, all they needed to hear, Heather/Carole, was that the others UNDERSTOOD why they were upset and acknowledge their feelings as valid. But NO, that will never happen with the like of the UES group, Ramona, Sonja, Dorinda and LuAnn, because in their minds, they can do no wrong, their "itch" comes first and foremost!

 

ETA, He could have left when LuAnn's hook up left, slept outside by the pool or called a cab/taxi. Better yet, slept with Ramona the rest of the night with Sonja sleeping in Bethenny's now free bedroom. Ramona has sex with a stranger then refuses to sleep in the same bed/bedroom with him? LOL Something tells me SHE did not trust the guy herself! LOL

Edited July 13, 2015 by WireWrap

[zoeysmom]

The reality is that they, Heather/Carole, did not know what this guy saw or did while they were asleep. Nor do we. That Ramona  thought so little of their safety is beyond belief and is not defendable IMO. Heather and Carole are entitled to their feelings on this. Had the others allowed them to pop off/have their say, most likely they would have relaxed in a much shorter amount of time with no long lasting damage to the overall relationship between all of them. But NO, they had to justify their stupid behavior, deny they had anything to do with it, deny any knowledge AND deny that Heather/Carole had any real concerns. IMO, all they needed to hear, Heather/Carole, was that the others UNDERSTOOD why they were upset and acknowledge their feelings as valid. But NO, that will never happen with the like of the UES group, Ramona, Sonja, Dorinda and LuAnn, because in their minds, they can do no wrong, their "itch" comes first and foremost!

 

ETA, He could have left when LuAnn's hook up left, slept outside by the pool or called a cab/taxi. Better yet, slept with Ramona the rest of the night with Sonja sleeping in Bethenny's now free bedroom. Ramona has sex with a stranger then refuses to sleep in the same bed/bedroom with him? LOL Something tells me SHE did not trust the guy herself! LOL

They need to stop borrowing trouble I bet Kristen and Dorinda aren't worrying about if some man saw them sleeping. 

 

I just think Heather and Carole are smarter and better than to go on some rant.  It does nothing for them.  Express you are unhappy.  This trying to pry answers and apologies out of people does nothing to make them look good.  I will say we only saw the first few minutes.  Heather said she thought Ramona was still drunk.  We still don't know the entire story and the story is better told in calm rather than turmoil.

 

What should Ramona be required to do-take a different flight home?  Clean the place before they leave?  Write Heather a check?  I just don't see the point in all the rancor/  That is all these women have done for four days is yell, scream, cry, insult , confront, humiliate and apologize.  So wanting to miss lunch has the same commotion as having an unaccompanied man spend the night naked in the house.  I once heard a very smart person say to an attorney who was threatening a store owner with legal action over a perceived slight to his wife-the woman said, "so is the judge going to force me to listen to your wife's insults and rantings?"  The store owner had refunded the money and $25.00, in doing so had the woman sign she would never return to the store.  The woman wanted her attorney husband to force the store owner to allow his wife to shop there.

 

The apologies within this group are worthless perhaps they should try not making the other mad to start with and/or saying things that are none of their business.

[breezy424]

I meet lots of men every year some of them get drunk.  I don't immediately assume they are going to rape or rob if they go to sleep in someone else's house.  BTW I think it is a good thing.  Sometimes it is just someone stranded or intoxicated who needs to sleep it off.  Heather has every right to be offended-I just don't think she has the right to imply she was in physical danger or her belongings were about to be stolen.

 

This group can't agree when or where to eat lunch there is no agreement implied or otherwise who can give permission for someone to stay over, use the bathroom or bunk down with one of the occupants.  Even Carole has said she is not a Golden Girl and bringing guys back would be cool, finding a man in bed with Ramona would be cool. The owner of the lease is Shed Media. 

 

I am not disagreeing they were offended.  If they desired security - lock the doors or close them. So security wasn't a priority for them.  They had been around this same group of women and this same group had gone out partying and brought men home.  So why did they expect a different result?  Worse this time they were under the same roof.  Using someone's bathroom when you are a guest in the home is not an offense-especially if you slept through it. This is devil's advocate stuff. Carole and Heather loathe  the other women so that ship has sailed.  It seems to me Heather was the one that saw someone sleeping.   Carole saying he had a small penis, accusing him of this or that of what might have happened.  He was naked he wasn't flashing anyone he was asleep.

 

A bigger reality is pushing the guy out of the house and getting a drunk person behind the wheel and having him kill himself or others and having this whole group embroiled in lawsuits. Reminds me of a little incident in Punta Canta when Bravo's favorite felonious HW caused a ruckus and a whole lot of them were sued. 

So now it's about letting a drunk person drive? That's what taxi's are for.  Sleep on a lounge chair if a person is that drunk.  Would they know the difference?  I doubt it.  I don't think this has anything to do with Punta Canta.

 

Bottom line for me is that because Ro and the rest of women were drunk doesn't relieve them of responsibility nor does it relieve the stranger (if in fact, he was drunk) of responsibilities.  Lu, Ro, and Sonja had a responsibility to the other women staying in the house.  That responsibility was just as viable as their responsibility to a stranger who you are assuming was drunk.    And quite honestly, I don't think any of them gave a rap if the stranger was 'drunk'.

 

The only time that I recall that any of the women brought a guy home was in St. Barth's.  And that was Tomas.  He didn't stay the night as far as I can recall. 

 

ETA - please don't take this as me 'attacking' Zoeysmon in any way.  We've known each other for years on this and other boards.  We agree much more than we disagree. 

Edited July 13, 2015 by breezy424

[OhGromit]

The reality is that they, Heather/Carole, did not know what this guy saw or did while they were asleep. Nor do we. That Ramona  thought so little of their safety is beyond belief and is not defendable IMO. 

 

Exactly.  I think what contributed to Heather and Carole being so pissed off at Ramona was that she was so selfish and thoughtless, yet again, this time in a way that put them in a really uncomfortable and potentially vulnerable position.  It's not at all about the sex, or bringing a random dude back... it's about not watching out for your (supposed) friends.  When I imagine waking up and realizing there's a random man sleeping in my suite... that would be upsetting, not b/c he had sex with my friend, but b/c he's a random dude who no one really knows anything about, and had access to me and my shit all night. 

 

 

And then for Ramona to get defensive about it instead of cop to it, that really would piss me off.  Ramona is such a deflecor and blamer, and it can really be infuriating.  If she'd just fess up and apologize sincerely, that would make a huge difference.

Edited July 13, 2015 by OhGromit

[AnnA]

I am thinking we need to stick with claims found in common law at best. Vulnerable to a stranger just doesn't have any standing.

.

IMHO Common law has nothing to do with this situation.

Common sense and common decency should have been used.

Edited July 13, 2015 by AnnA

[WireWrap]

They need to stop borrowing trouble I bet Kristen and Dorinda aren't worrying about if some man saw them sleeping. 

 

I just think Heather and Carole are smarter and better than to go on some rant.  It does nothing for them.  Express you are unhappy.  This trying to pry answers and apologies out of people does nothing to make them look good.  I will say we only saw the first few minutes.  Heather said she thought Ramona was still drunk.  We still don't know the entire story and the story is better told in calm rather than turmoil.

 

What should Ramona be required to do-take a different flight home?  Clean the place before they leave?  Write Heather a check?  I just don't see the point in all the rancor/  That is all these women have done for four days is yell, scream, cry, insult , confront, humiliate and apologize.  So wanting to miss lunch has the same commotion as having an unaccompanied man spend the night naked in the house.  I once heard a very smart person say to an attorney who was threatening a store owner with legal action over a perceived slight to his wife-the woman said, "so is the judge going to force me to listen to your wife's insults and rantings?"  The store owner had refunded the money and $25.00, in doing so had the woman sign she would never return to the store.  The woman wanted her attorney husband to force the store owner to allow his wife to shop there.

 

The apologies within this group are worthless perhaps they should try not making the other mad to start with and/or saying things that are none of their business.

No, APOLOGIZE, Ramona needed to own what she did and apologize! Replace Ramona with Brandi and Heather/Carole with Kyle/LisaR, would you feel the same way? How would Ramona react to find out 1 of Avery's GF's did this to her, or Dorinda/Hannah, LuAnn/Victoria, I highly doubt that they would be forgiving of that friends actions potentially putting their daughters at risk.

 

I find it funny, how not all that may pages back, on the last episode thread, people, not saying you but in general, were saying that someone needed to hold Ramona accountable for her actions, to stop letting her get away with her nasty behavior, yet here we are, someone is finally holding her feet to the fire and that HW is being ripped apart for it!

 

I agree, apologies within the HW shows carry little weight, given or accepted, but, IMO, this was Heathers/Carole's business as well as the rest of the HW's staying in that house, not just Ramona's.

JMO

[zoeysmom]

So now it's about letting a drunk person drive? That's what taxi's are for.  Sleep on a lounge chair if a person is that drunk.  Would they know the difference?  I doubt it.  I don't think this has anything to do with Punta Canta.

 

Bottom line for me is that because Ro and the rest of women were drunk doesn't relieve them of responsibility nor does it relieve the stranger (if in fact, he was drunk) of responsibilities.  Lu, Ro, and Sonja had a responsibility to the other women staying in the house.  That responsibility was just as viable as their responsibility to a stranger who you are assuming was drunk.    And quite honestly, I don't think any of them gave a rap if the stranger was 'drunk'.

 

The only time that I recall that any of the women brought a guy home was in St. Barth's.  And that was Tomas.  He didn't stay the night as far as I can recall. 

 

ETA - please don't take this as me 'attacking' Zoeysmon in any way.  We've known each other for years on this and other boards.  We agree much more than we disagree. 

Pretty much the problem with First Looks is we haven't heard or seen the whole story.  You are correct I presumed Naked Dude was drunk because the Offended claimed they heard the others partying downstairs.  Maybe Naked Dude was just stranded and didn't have a ride.    

I agree a lot of drunks making bad calls which obviously includes Ramona and LuAnn but the worst case scenario would have been to dispatch a drunk on the road.  Ramona does need to take responsibility if she is the one responsible and get the heat off Sonja, LuAnn and Dorinda.  To me, Ramona apologizing is worthless she just said this past episode she apologizes to get people off her back.

 

I do think Naked Dude should have closed his door if it was in fact open.  He should have also stayed covered up.  They can't have it both ways finding him and then getting upset he left without an explanation.  They did not want him in the house unless he was banging Ramona then it would have been okay.  I do not understand this logic set forth by one of the Offended, Carole.  I kind of think if they worry about Sonja drinking too much and getting taken advantage of the same standard would apply to a drunken Ramona.  The constradictions and exceptions defy logic.

[zoeysmom]

No, APOLOGIZE, Ramona needed to own what she did and apologize! Replace Ramona with Brandi and Heather/Carole with Kyle/LisaR, would you feel the same way? How would Ramona react to find out 1 of Avery's GF's did this to her, or Dorinda/Hannah, LuAnn/Victoria, I highly doubt that they would be forgiving of that friends actions potentially putting their daughters at risk.

 

I find it funny, how not all that may pages back, on the last episode thread, people, not saying you but in general, were saying that someone needed to hold Ramona accountable for her actions, to stop letting her get away with her nasty behavior, yet here we are, someone is finally holding her feet to the fire and that HW is being ripped apart for it!

 

I agree, apologies within the HW shows carry little weight, given or accepted, but, IMO, this was Heathers/Carole's business as well as the rest of the HW's staying in that house, not just Ramona's.

JMO

Ramona's apologies are worthless she just last episode admitted she apologies to placate.  So I don't see the need for Ramona to apologize.  What Lisa/Kyle did to Brandi was disassociate with her and they said it on the film.  Heather did it Ramona the first season she was on by not taking her to London, Bethenny did it to Ramona in Sag Harbor.  When she wants to go to town let her go, if she wants to spend two hours talking to a restaurant owner let her.  I am suggesting that they do the same now that you bring it up.  They were pretty much going down the road with Sonja for pestering LuAnn's stylist's boyfriend.  And when Ramona comes over and sits on someone's lap and starts her stupid BS apology toss her off the top of the yacht or knock her teeth out.  I kid.

Edited July 13, 2015 by zoeysmom

[LotusFlower]

No, APOLOGIZE, Ramona needed to own what she did and apologize! Replace Ramona with Brandi and Heather/Carole with Kyle/LisaR, would you feel the same way? How would Ramona react to find out 1 of Avery's GF's did this to her, or Dorinda/Hannah, LuAnn/Victoria, I highly doubt that they would be forgiving of that friends actions potentially putting their daughters at risk.

 

I find it funny, how not all that may pages back, on the last episode thread, people, not saying you but in general, were saying that someone needed to hold Ramona accountable for her actions, to stop letting her get away with her nasty behavior, yet here we are, someone is finally holding her feet to the fire and that HW is being ripped apart for it!

Good point about the daughters. I don't know about LuAnn, but Ramona would have a fit.

I don't know about the apology, though. I'm right there with Bethenny on calling Ramona "The Apologizer." Whenever she's caught with her hand in the cookie jar, she always bats her eyes or pretends to be earnest, or goes in for a hug, and then apologizes. And then it's swept under the carpet, and she goes back to being the same narcissistic s.o.b. over and over again. Why? Because ppl. tell her they appreciate her apology, accept it, and then hug her back. And the pattern continues. I don't know the answer, but maybe it's NOT accepting her apology, and telling her to fuck off. Actions and consequences and all that. *

* As I typed this, I just thought of LVP and how she handled Brandi and her constant bad behaviors followed by the requisite apologies. No wonder I like her.

[LotusFlower]

Zoeysmom - I could not disagree with you more about NudeDudeGate, so much so that it's bothering me, but I think it's funny that we both sorta said the same thing, at the same time, about The Apologizer, as well as likening all this to LVP and Brandi. All Hail the Queen! (That would be Lisa).

[lunastartron]

If Heather and Carole want to delve into the realm of fan fiction and wax hysterical about what *could* have happened, there's no reason that Tomas and the phantom Italians in St. Barth's couldn't have proven themselves as dangerous as Ramona's trick. Just because LuAnn sent him/them home post-assignation doesn't mean they didn't have physical access to the property where the cast was sleeping at that time as well. And, yes, if Heather wants a cogent/coherent response from anyone, it's not surprising that no one's delivering when they are literally waking up to her tearing through the house like Faye Dunaway as Joan Crawford. If she wants to be annoyed about encountering a naked man in the house, cool (although the solution to that is real simple: close and lock the door that leads into that bedroom), but breaking down into tears because you can't understand why no one is leaping up from their drunken stupors in order to report to you like you're their mother does nothing but make you look like a lunatic.

[zoeysmom]

If Heather and Carole want to delve into the realm of fan fiction and wax hysterical about what *could* have happened, there's no reason that Tomas and the phantom Italians in St. Barth's couldn't have proven themselves as dangerous as Ramona's trick. Just because LuAnn sent him/them home post-assignation doesn't mean they didn't have physical access to the property where the cast was sleeping at that time as well. And, yes, if Heather wants a cogent/coherent response from anyone, it's not surprising that no one's delivering when they are literally waking up to her tearing through the house like Faye Dunaway as Joan Crawford. If she wants to be annoyed about encountering a naked man in the house, cool (although the solution to that is real simple: close and lock the door that leads into that bedroom), but breaking down into tears because you can't understand why no one is leaping up from their drunken stupors in order to report to you like you're their mother does nothing but make you look like a lunatic.

I agree with this.

 

I think what gets lost when someone as you so eloquently put it  "tearing through the house like Faye Dunaway as Joan Crawford" is the collateral damage to the innocents.   If Dorinda has no idea why the guy is in the bedroom across the hallway don't interrogate and insult her.  All I am saying to Wire, Lotus, Breezy  and the rest of you fine posters is Heather,can be offended. Running about in anger accusing people getting people out of bed leads to yet another round of apologies by Heather because of her method.  It is better to calmly establish who the guilty party is than to execute the innocent and have to make amends.  Granted the innocents may be better classified as the "not guiltys". 

Good point about the daughters. I don't know about LuAnn, but Ramona would have a fit.

I don't know about the apology, though. I'm right there with Bethenny on calling Ramona "The Apologizer." Whenever she's caught with her hand in the cookie jar, she always bats her eyes or pretends to be earnest, or goes in for a hug, and then apologizes. And then it's swept under the carpet, and she goes back to being the same narcissistic s.o.b. over and over again. Why? Because ppl. tell her they appreciate her apology, accept it, and then hug her back. And the pattern continues. I don't know the answer, but maybe it's NOT accepting her apology, and telling her to fuck off. Actions and consequences and all that. *

* As I typed this, I just thought of LVP and how she handled Brandi and her constant bad behaviors followed by the requisite apologies. No wonder I like her.

You and LVP are nicer than I am -I was all for a push off the top deck of the yacht-I guess LuAnn did spank her.

Edited July 13, 2015 by zoeysmom

[LotusFlower]

All I am saying to Wire, Lotus, Breezy and the rest of you fine posters is Heather,can be offended. Running about in anger accusing people getting people out of bed leads to yet another round of apologies by Heather because of her method. It is better to calmly establish who the guilty party is then to execute the innocent and have to make amends. Granted the innocents may be better classified as the "not guiltys".

This is exactly what MotorCityMom predicted and called out as wrong - Ramona is the perpetrator here, and yet Heather is getting cast as the villain of the story. It is never ok to criticize someone for how they react to being victimized. Some people freak out, some are stoic, and then there's Countess "not really" LuAnn. (Classic). If anyone thinks they would have reacted differently than Heather and Carole in the same situation, that's certainly everyone's prerogative, but it doesn't justify criticizing them for how they reacted to what they experienced. Again, think of when Brandi slapped Lisa on RHOBH. Brandi whined that it was just a little slap, no big deal, and after all, she apologized. She very effectively put the spotlight on Lisa, who then looked like she was overreacting in her legitimate shock at the red mark on her face. Ramona is the devil here - The Agitator, The Apologizer, The Perp. Wake up her hung-over ass and read her the riot act.

Edited July 13, 2015 by LotusFlower

[motorcitymom65]

If Heather and Carole want to delve into the realm of fan fiction and wax hysterical about what *could* have happened, there's no reason that Tomas and the phantom Italians in St. Barth's couldn't have proven themselves as dangerous as Ramona's trick. Just because LuAnn sent him/them home post-assignation doesn't mean they didn't have physical access to the property where the cast was sleeping at that time as well. And, yes, if Heather wants a cogent/coherent response from anyone, it's not surprising that no one's delivering when they are literally waking up to her tearing through the house like Faye Dunaway as Joan Crawford. If she wants to be annoyed about encountering a naked man in the house, cool (although the solution to that is real simple: close and lock the door that leads into that bedroom), but breaking down into tears because you can't understand why no one is leaping up from their drunken stupors in order to report to you like you're their mother does nothing but make you look like a lunatic.

I'm sure that if we go back in time and the Pirate dude would have been naked in the bungalow that Heather and Carole shared, they would have been just as angry. So now they are wrong about this situation because they weren't mad about a completely different situation 2 years ago. Ok. 

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

Although I'd love it if Carole's camcorder turns into the Zapruder film. It's looking less likely, but I loved that theory.

LOVE this theory. I would bet a vacation swag bag full of Skinnyorphan lo cal no taste CRAP, that immediately after Heather the naked man she called a producer and told them to get a fucking camera over here NOW, and in their (IMHO justified) horror over the guy, while waiting for production, Carole began filming with her own camera.

[LotusFlower]

LOVE this theory. I would bet a vacation swag bag full of Skinnyorphan lo cal no taste CRAP, that immediately after Heather the naked man she called a producer and told them to get a fucking camera over here NOW, and in their (IMHO justified) horror over the guy, while waiting for production, Carole began filming with her own camera.

Me, too. But in case it turns true, send the swag to the Motor City - it's MCM's theory.

[motorcitymom65]

 

 

To me where the whole show is going down the crapper is everyone gets so offended at everything and being ignored gets tears and crying and explanations and apologies and so when something big happens what is the next step?  We have already done tears, explanations and apologies for stupid crap so what do you with something that is a greater offense?  I don't know what the equalizer is but to me the have blown it on minutia and now when stuff gets serious what do they do?  I don't think Heather and Carole reducing themselves to a Ramona level is the answer.  Againt these are questions I want answered.  I mean I guess one breaks out with a case of Twitterhea and tell scerets and take jabs.

The show is going down the crapper because 2 women are mad about something that it sounds like 90% of the people reading this forum agree they would be mad about? And even if they weren't mad, it sounds like 100% of the people agree that Ramona, Lu, or whatever horny chick brought the guy to the house was wrong. How often do you ever remember that happening? I can hardly think of one other single time when everyone agrees that someone is wrong. We have watched these girls for years get mad about a whole host of dumb shit. Way dumber than this, right? People mad because they didn't get invited to parties hosted by people they didn't even like, mad because someone won't wait for them to walk in a door, mad because someone tries to feed them a meatball, mad because someone says "fuck", mad because someone doesn't have the Pinot Grigio they need at a party, mad because there are no banners flying to indicate their arrival. 

 

 These girls get mad every time the wind blows, so how does this spell the end of it all? Is it possible that it is disconcerting that there is an actual "thing" that should and would piss off normal, everyday people, and it is shocking because we are so unaccustomed to that not being the case? 

 

As far as how anyone moves forward, maybe they don't. There comes a time when folks cannot. We saw that on the BH show. According to Heather, she and Lu made up twice on camera after this, and 3 times off camera. They ended the season fine, but Lu came after her later on, when she didn't expect it. Heather and Carole have made it clear that they will never be friends with Lu again. They've not said the same thing about the other ladies, so I don't think that those relationship are done. 

[motorcitymom65]

Ramona is the perpetrator here, and yet Heather is getting cast as the villain of the story. It is never ok to criticize someone for how they react to being victimized. Some people freak out, some are stoic, and then there's Countess "not really" LuAnn. (Classic). If anyone thinks they would have reacted differently than Heather and Carole in the same situation, that's certainly everyone's prerogative, but it doesn't justify criticizing them for how they reacted to what they experienced. Again, think of when Brandi slapped Lisa on RHOBH. Brandi whined that it was just a little slap, no big deal, and after all, she apologized. She very effectively put the spotlight on Lisa, who then looked like she was overreacting in her legitimate shock at the red mark on her face. Ramona is the devil here - The Agitator, The Apologizer, The Perp. Wake up her hung-over ass and read her the riot act.

Exactly, and well put.

I am someone who never criticizes when someone reacts to being scared or angry if the reason for being scared or angry is justified. Haven't most of us done this? I can see someone thinking they overreacted, but not that they were wrong for it. There are so rarely times when their anger is truly justified, or when we can understand why they are upset. Don't we usually have discussions on what in the world pissed them off, like the deal with Dorinda. So often we are left scratching our head. Not in this case. I always thought Kyle shouldn't have done the limo reveal, but I didn't judge it because I got it. The closest viewing of real anger I have ever seen was Adrienne and Paul when they realized what Brandi had said about the surrogacy. They said things they should not have, but I comoletely got it and I was rooting for them. They were pissed and stunned that someone could be so thoughtless. I think that is what we saw with H&C. Their reaction might not be what others would have been, but to assign the blame to anyone except the person who dropped the guy off in their room is strange to me.

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

Me, too. But in case it turns true, send the swag to the Motor City - it's MCM's theory.

Ok but Let's not give that nasty swill to the lovely MCM , let's force feed it to Ramona. ;-)

[MollyBrown]

So there is a theory that C and H should not be livid because they knew they were not assaulted. I disagree with that, but moving on. They did not know and still do not know if he took pictures of them sleeping naked. I bet there is a few bucks to be made from naked housewives pictures. This is the shit Romona opened them up to.

I will also add that I hate the victim blaming, and that is what it is, by saying they should have locked their bedroom door, worn pjs, known from past trips, ect . They had a right to feel safe in their suite.

Edited July 13, 2015 by MollyBrown

[Lakewood27]

Anyway, the situation sucks that either Ramona or Luann put them in and I would be pissed, too, but I did get a pretty good chuckle out of myself when disheveled Lu(cigarette/liquor voice) shrugs her shoulders and says "No, not really." I believe she has had MANY a  nekkid stranger stay the night.  Heather asked the wrong person.

That was a hoot! I watched that scene twice. I've actually been in a very similar situation with a roommate. I wish I could have been chill like Lu, but my reaction was somewhere between Heather's anger and Carole's disgust.

[ottergirl]

From Dorinda's blog two weeks ago, obviously about this event:

 

 

Heather Thomson has cornered the market on overreacting, and just watch—she will continue to do so for the rest of the season. And not just with me, but with everyone. In her mind, her opinion is the final word and the only “word” that makes sense. Quite frankly, it’s gotten tiresome. No, exhausting.

 

So - for those of you who feel like Heather and Carole were overreacting, you can count yourselves Team Dorinda.  I myself am firmly on the opposing side.  Heather flat out said "no big deal" that they brought strange guys home and were partying - she didn't care.  She has made it clear so many times that she doesn't judge Luann for her pirate ways - Heather enjoys it.  Carole also says to Bethenny that if Ramona had been WITH the guy, no problem. 

 

Their reaction was based on one very simple fact: they felt unsafe.  And frankly, it's not up to me, or anyone, to say when a woman (or man) has the right to feel unsafe.  Every woman gets to decide that for herself.   The fact that some posters would be "cool" with that situation (I can't imagine it myself, but okay); that's their right.  For Carole and Heather to be "uncool" with it, is their right too.  Again, they weren't complaining because someone fucked up their blow dry (in which case, throwing a wine glass or an oar would have been all right, in Ramona's world) - they were upset because while they were unconscious and literally exposed, a strange drunk naked man was left alone beside them.

 

Also, to say that Heather and Carole have no right to be upset because they weren't assaulted or robbed is weird to me.  It's like saying that if someone plays Russian Roulette with me, and the gun doesn't go off, I don't get to be angry because hey, the gun didn't go off.  Ramona put them in a position where they could have easily been robbed, or assaulted, and to this day they can't say whether or not their privacy was invaded.  The fact that nothing horrible happened doesn't negate the fact that it could have.  And damn straight, if someone put me in a position where something horrible could have happened to me, they're going to hear all about it from me.  I get upset with my husband when he forgets to lock the door at night.  Same principle, times a thousand.

 

Finally, can we talk about Ramona saying to Heather the night before "You honestly scared me, Heather."  Ramona.  Your hypocrisy is showing.  Whoever said that Ramona is past her "sell by" date (was that you, zoeysmom?) - well I completely agree.  Not just because of this incident, but Ramona's schtick is beyond tired to me and I think it's harming the show.   Now that Bethenny is back, can we please lose Ramona?  Give her and Sonja a spinoff if you think they're such a draw, I don't have to watch it.  New York City is my favorite city in all the world.  I think it's disgusting that Ramona is the face of NY on this show.

Edited July 13, 2015 by ottergirl

[motorcitymom65]

Thanks Ottergirl for posting the piece from Dorinda's blog. After watching the First Look, it is even stranger that she had nothing to say about Carole - only Heather. Carole was right there with Heather every step of the way. She is actually the one who was questioning Dorinda, and getting progressively more irritated that she couldn't answer simple questions.  Yet Dorinda likes Carole. They go to London together, and she has been courting her on Twitter. All kinds of nice words about her. She has become a nutter IMO. She of the rules that dictate women enter an establishment together, or don't say "fuck", but Heather is the one who overreacts. 

[Crikey]

The bathroom scene showed the women in the same clothes they wore in the F restaurant.   Appears that Heather wanted Ramoaner out of the bathroom.  Not sure why.

[WireWrap]

Ramona's apologies are worthless she just last episode admitted she apologies to placate.  So I don't see the need for Ramona to apologize.  What Lisa/Kyle did to Brandi was disassociate with her and they said it on the film.  Heather did it Ramona the first season she was on by not taking her to London, Bethenny did it to Ramona in Sag Harbor.  When she wants to go to town let her go, if she wants to spend two hours talking to a restaurant owner let her.  I am suggesting that they do the same now that you bring it up.  They were pretty much going down the road with Sonja for pestering LuAnn's stylist's boyfriend.  And when Ramona comes over and sits on someone's lap and starts her stupid BS apology toss her off the top of the yacht or knock her teeth out.  I kid.

Yes, they froze her out, but only after they were upset, voiced their anger, and then had a chance to calm down afterward. Heather/Carole have not had time to calm down at this point and IMO, their reactions are understandable.

[Crikey]

On Bravo website it has a teaser on the reunion that one HW was accused of being mean on Twitter and now Da-ranter has ceased her rants.    hahaha

[Crikey]

Yes, they froze her out, but only after they were upset, voiced their anger, and then had a chance to calm down afterward. Heather/Carole have not had time to calm down at this point and IMO, their reactions are understandable.

I agree. 

I think anger can be a reaction to fear.  Someone comes up behind a person and yells BOO!! then  that person gets scared and often gets angry at the person who scared them.  Kinda natural, I think.

Someone pulls out in front of me while I am driving, I get really scared then I might feel anger at the person.  Seems natural to then think of what could have happened if an accident had occurred.

[Midnight Cheese]

Ramona is just trash, and it has nothing to do with having sex.   Writing of sex, though, it's clear to me Ramona can only catch dick when the dude is drunk, and she's been getting the remnants of Mario's sexual desire for many years.  Looks good on her, unlike her choices in swimwear.

 

I am so happy that there is going to be so much romantic misery and loneliness in her future.  It's earned. 

 

What Ramona and her nasty cohort did was beyond redemption.  Heather in particular is a good person for dining with them after the reunion without drowning Ramona in her waterglass.  Though that's a little too bad.

[motorcitymom65]

Ramona is just trash, and it has nothing to do with having sex.   Writing of sex, though, it's clear to me Ramona can only catch dick when the dude is drunk, and she's been getting the remnants of Mario's sexual desire for many years.  Looks good on her, unlike her choices in swimwear.

 

I am so happy that there is going to be so much romantic misery and loneliness in her future.  It's earned. 

 

What Ramona and her nasty cohort did was beyond redemption.  Heather in particular is a good person for dining with them after the reunion without drowning Ramona in her waterglass.  Though that's a little too bad.

Heather is a much better person than I am. Actually, most of them are for dealing with Ramona and putting up with her shit year after fucking year. I think that Lu and Sonja do it because they are very much like her in lots of ways.

 

I would have been wiping off my prints and rehearsing my 911 call. 

On Bravo website it has a teaser on the reunion that one HW was accused of being mean on Twitter and now Da-ranter has ceased her rants.    hahaha

This might be one of the more fascinating elements. She was on Twitter non-stop; I am talking 40 or 50 tweets during every episode, and last week nothing. True, they were filming the reunion, but she said she would tweet about it later and she never did. No blog either.  Funny how she was able to tweet like a crazy loon when she was calling others out. The episode where she comes out looking less then stellar, she goes mute. It will be interesting to see if she goes back at it this week, with Heather being on the hot seat.  I'll be spending a lot of time this week on long flights and will have some time on my hands. I just may open a Twitter account to annoy her. 

[WireWrap]

Heather is a much better person than I am. Actually, most of them are for dealing with Ramona and putting up with her shit year after fucking year. I think that Lu and Sonja do it because they are very much like her in lots of ways.

 

I would have been wiping off my prints and rehearsing my 911 call. 

This might be one of the more fascinating elements. She was on Twitter non-stop; I am talking 40 or 50 tweets during every episode, and last week nothing. True, they were filming the reunion, but she said she would tweet about it later and she never did. No blog either.  Funny how she was able to tweet like a crazy loon when she was calling others out. The episode where she comes out looking less then stellar, she goes mute. It will be interesting to see if she goes back at it this week, with Heather being on the hot seat.  I'll be spending a lot of time this week on long flights and will have some time on my hands. I just may open a Twitter account to annoy her. 

IMO, all 1 would have to do to annoy her is ask logical questions. LOL

[zoeysmom]

The show is going down the crapper because 2 women are mad about something that it sounds like 90% of the people reading this forum agree they would be mad about? And even if they weren't mad, it sounds like 100% of the people agree that Ramona, Lu, or whatever horny chick brought the guy to the house was wrong. How often do you ever remember that happening? I can hardly think of one other single time when everyone agrees that someone is wrong. We have watched these girls for years get mad about a whole host of dumb shit. Way dumber than this, right? People mad because they didn't get invited to parties hosted by people they didn't even like, mad because someone won't wait for them to walk in a door, mad because someone tries to feed them a meatball, mad because someone says "fuck", mad because someone doesn't have the Pinot Grigio they need at a party, mad because there are no banners flying to indicate their arrival. 

 

 These girls get mad every time the wind blows, so how does this spell the end of it all? Is it possible that it is disconcerting that there is an actual "thing" that should and would piss off normal, everyday people, and it is shocking because we are so unaccustomed to that not being the case? 

 

As far as how anyone moves forward, maybe they don't. There comes a time when folks cannot. We saw that on the BH show. According to Heather, she and Lu made up twice on camera after this, and 3 times off camera. They ended the season fine, but Lu came after her later on, when she didn't expect it. Heather and Carole have made it clear that they will never be friends with Lu again. They've not said the same thing about the other ladies, so I don't think that those relationship are done. 

I need to CLARIFY something I have never said that Heather does not have the right to be offended. It is not good to have any overnight guest without letting your housemates knowing and especially not good to extend the invitation in a drunken state. So Heather has a right to be offended, she was startled, nothing more nothing less.  She didn't have a heart attack, a stroke or blow her brains out, she wasn't robbed or raped and there has been no assertion the stranger used the bathroom or went into their sleeping quarters-she was startled and offended.  It is not about Heather and her right to be offended it is how she CHOSE to deal with it.  I don't think it was productive.  What I have seen on this trip is series of fairly silly arguments. Heather may have felt better running around screaming, startling LuAnn and Ramona and waking them up and then she has given them the power to question her behavior. Which apparently her behavior this year has given rise to previously supportive publications becoming not so supportive (Vulture). I find the show getting less and less believable because there has been behavior and words so hurtful and so base that there are just not enough apologies to make up  for the comments and now this poor decision by someone, presumably Ramona has the Offended blowing up at people and treating them poorly for someone else's behavior-most likely Ramona's.  I also don't believe in guilt by association.  Whether or not Dorinda rode in a car with men or was part of the late night party is best asked in a calm manner.  Carole was disrespectful and do not believe that Carole gets to claim startled by association. 

 

So again I support Heather's right to be offended.  I don't support blanket accusations or invaded others space because you were startled or offended.  If Heather had detained the man (hopefully clothed) then by all means wake those women up and get an explanation.

 

Again we have only seen the first few minutes.  I am hoping that behavior I find unnecessary or hurtful is addressed from all sides.  Demanding all the other women in the house be as offended as Heather is just odd to me be it 90% of the posters here who agree or 5%.

 

So let Heather rant and carry on it serves no purpose for this otherwise intelligent, professional woman.   I don't think is necessary to talk about what ifs.  There are hundreds of them they one thing that is a certainty is they did not happen.

Edited July 13, 2015 by zoeysmom

[zoeysmom]

Heather is a much better person than I am. Actually, most of them are for dealing with Ramona and putting up with her shit year after fucking year. I think that Lu and Sonja do it because they are very much like her in lots of ways.

 

I would have been wiping off my prints and rehearsing my 911 call. 

This might be one of the more fascinating elements. She was on Twitter non-stop; I am talking 40 or 50 tweets during every episode, and last week nothing. True, they were filming the reunion, but she said she would tweet about it later and she never did. No blog either.  Funny how she was able to tweet like a crazy loon when she was calling others out. The episode where she comes out looking less then stellar, she goes mute. It will be interesting to see if she goes back at it this week, with Heather being on the hot seat.  I'll be spending a lot of time this week on long flights and will have some time on my hands. I just may open a Twitter account to annoy her. 

They were filming the Reunion during the airing of the show last week. Dorinda managed to tweet that bit of information.

 

We might have a honest RH if Dorinda apologized for her mean Tweeting at the Reunion then it would be a Ramona-esque apology if she jumped back in a started mean tweeting. 

 

I don't judge these women by their tweeting behavior.  It is their platform to explain themselves without censorship.  Carole does it, Heather does it, Luann does it, Kristen does it  and Dorinda does it.   Their tweets appear on the Bravo Social episode, they tweet Andy when they have an issue with another RH on WWHL.

[motorcitymom65]

They were filming the Reunion during the airing of the show last week. Dorinda managed to tweet that bit of information.

 

We might have a honest RH if Dorinda apologized for her mean Tweeting at the Reunion then it would be a Ramona-esque apology if she jumped back in a started mean tweeting. 

 

I don't judge these women by their tweeting behavior.  It is their platform to explain themselves without censorship.  Carole does it, Heather does it, Luann does it, Kristen does it  and Dorinda does it.   Their tweets appear on the Bravo Social episode, they tweet Andy when they have an issue with another RH on WWHL.

The do all tweet, but no one has ever tweeted about the show like Dorinda, or at least not that I have seen. Ever. The closest I have seen is Eileen, who I believe Dorinda was trying to mimic. She also live-tweeted on all the action, although not to the extent that Dorinda does, and she wasn't nasty. Dorinda is nasty.  The other difference is that both Heather and Carole tend to tweet responses to their followers. That makes up the bulk of all their talk about the show. Not that this is better or worse, but they both engage a lot with their followers, similar to how Lisa V or Kyle handles their accounts. Dorinda has been called out for this a lot. She doesn't respond to tweets the way that some of the others do. Her choice, but I will imagine she will change the way she does things. She found out fast it is great to be open and honest when you look good, but much harder to do that when you look bad. 

[WireWrap]

I need to CLARIFY something I have never said that Heather does not have the right to be offended. It is not good to have any overnight guest without letting your housemates knowing and especially not good to extend the invitation in a drunken state. So Heather has a right to be offended, she was startled, nothing more nothing less.  She didn't have a heart attack, a stroke or blow her brains out, she wasn't robbed or raped and there has been no assertion the stranger used the bathroom or went into their sleeping quarters-she was startled and offended.  It is not about Heather and her right to be offended it is how she CHOSE to deal with it.  I don't think it was productive.  What I have seen on this trip is series of fairly silly arguments. Heather may have felt better running around screaming, startling LuAnn and Ramona and waking them up and then she has given them the power to question her behavior. Which apparently her behavior this year has given rise to previously supportive publications becoming not so supportive (Vulture). I find the show getting less and less believable because there has been behavior and words so hurtful and so base that there are just not enough apologies to make up  for the comments and now this poor decision by someone, presumably Ramona has the Offended blowing up at people and treating them poorly for someone else's behavior-most likely Ramona's.  I also don't believe in guilt by association.  Whether or not Dorinda rode in a car with men or was part of the late night party is best asked in a calm manner.  Carole was disrespectful and do not believe that Carole gets to claim startled by association. 

 

So again I support Heather's right to be offended.  I don't support blanket accusations or invaded others space because you were startled or offended.  If Heather had detained the man (hopefully clothed) then by all means wake those women up and get an explanation.

 

Again we have only seen the first few minutes.  I am hoping that behavior I find unnecessary or hurtful is addressed from all sides.  Demanding all the other women in the house be as offended as Heather is just odd to me be it 90% of the posters here who agree or 5%.

 

So let Heather rant and carry on it serves no purpose for this otherwise intelligent, professional woman.   I don't think is necessary to talk about what ifs.  There are hundreds of them they one thing that is a certainty is they did not happen.

You have said that Heather/Carole did have a right to be upset all along but that you think their reaction was OTT. That is where we disagree, they reacted much like I would. I would be furious that Ramona put me in danger even though nothing "bad" happened to me. The thought that someone I knew would think so little of my safety would not just make me angry, it would hurt me and make my anger much more intense and therefore my reaction would be more intense as well in that moment. I also think she felt more than "startled", the fear of the unknown and the reality of how vulnerable she was would have been an scary reality to her, IMO.

 

I have to ask, why do you think this guy never used the common/adjoining bathroom? Most people use the bathroom after having sex and or before going to sleep, so more likely than not, he was in that bathroom at some point during the night, otherwise the door would have been closed, not open like it was. Did he just "sleep" in that room or did he/Ramona use it for their random hookup? Either way, why didn't she close that door when she left him in that room, she had to have taken him up there to begin with. 

[imjagain]

When do you feel the most valuable? When sleeping unaware of what's going on around you. Imagine the fear and anger to know your "friend" let a stranger sleep in the room adjoining yours.

Heather and Carole didn't have to be raped to feel completely violated. They were sleeping in bed unaware a drunk man was pretty much in their room.

The idea that people are annoyed and think their reaction is ott is crazy to me. It's their reaction it's theirs to have.

Ramona is at fault and should be called out on once again being selfish and entitled.

Ramona should have called her ons a taxi and been done with it.

I wanted to slap Ramona when she said "Heather you scared me."

ETA : I almost always want to smack Ramona. Just being honest.

Edited July 13, 2015 by imjagain

[RedHawk]

I'm totally confused about the shared bathroom. Is it between two bedrooms and the guy was in one of the bedrooms? So, does that mean Heather and Carole were in the other bedroom -- in one bed? Maybe Heather freaked out because she thought the guy might have seen her and Carole pleasuring each other with huge dildos or something. Don't lose your cool -- I'm only joking because I don't get the suite configuration and that's where my nasty mind took me.

[izabella]

I'm totally confused about the shared bathroom. Is it between two bedrooms and the guy was in one of the bedrooms? So, does that mean Heather and Carole were in the other bedroom -- in one bed?

 

Yes, to both questions.  Think of the Brady bunch where the girls had one room, the boys had another, and they shared a "Jack and Jill" bathroom in the middle.  The bathroom has two doors, and each bedroom has a door going into the bathroom.  If the doors were open, naked dude could just walk into the bathroom and look into and step into Heather and Carole's room.

Edited July 13, 2015 by izabella