S07.E15: Don't Be All, Like, Uncool

[BluishGreen]

I thought the same thing.  

 

Ramona & Dorinda have been close friends for a long time, long before Dorinda hopped on board this show.  So it's perfectly understandable that Ramona would want to give Dorinda a hug or a word of encouragement.  Not to mention it's totally harmless.  But Heather wasn't having it.  I'm so done with her headstrong bulldozing in every situation.  Her holier-than-thou judgmental attitude has turned her from one of my favorites into someone I can barely watch.  It's her way or the highway, and she has no tolerance at all for anyone else's point of view, so strong is her focus on what SHE thinks is best.  I've never seen anyone with such an incessant need to constantly be taking over.

 

They may all act like kindergarten children from time to time, but she's not their teacher.  She's not superior to them, and no one put her in charge.  Keeping Ramona from Dorinda was a power play.  So ridiculous.  And yes, keeping a friend away from a friend is very similar to what Brandi did when she kept a sister away from a sister.

Exactly! Well said!

[Crikey]

Viewer shaming?  :)

Then, as a viewer I am a victim!  I see a class action lawsuit lol

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

Sonja was funnyyyyyyy this ep, she had the best lines.

Dorinda has a dark side. It's never about what it's about. When she loses her shit and gets despondent I think it's over deep pain somewhere else, John, the daughter, grief, all 3?

If "what are you doing here without dorindah?" Is the new "where's the beef" I'll be living in a great world.

Bethenny will be friends with Andy until she is done using him. Then he'll get the treatment that Jason Hoppy and her parents and Jill Z. are getting. Buckle up Andy! I hope we're in for the edit when he is finally on to her game.

That bedazzling party was AWFUL. Lame idea. I would have gladly written checks for her lovely charity than do that. Bedazzling jeans? 1998? Dumb. I enjoyed the horror on each ladies face as they arrived to that apartment. Luann wanted a countess red carpet, Bethenny expected to be recognized and have her ass kissed, every arivee looked awkward like WHERE am I walking in without exception. It must have been bad.

Lastly I am so done with the C*untess. Slammin bod aside, she is totally of a "let them eat cake" mindset. Do as she says not as she does. She wrote a fucking ETIQUETTE book so the scrutiny is legit, and her bullshit pop music and deflection is insulting.

[Grey Goose]

I hope someone at the reunion directly asks Ramona if she would have taken the same irresponsible risks had her college age daughter been in the house. Would she still have been okay putting a drunk stranger in a bedroom next door to her daughter and leaving him for hours?  Sorry, not sorry?  It was an incredibly thoughtless, irresponsible, rude choice that could have ended very badly. It's like drunk driving.  Most of the time no one gets hurts.  Doesn't mean you should ever take the chance. 

[Duke2801]

Lu's sexual appetite has been the subject of much laughter on this forum for years. Doesn't mean she is being judged, but lots of people (including non slut-Shamers) have marveled at her appetite and her success in getting her itch scratched - cameras be damned. She is an interesting study because she has always been very interested in rules, manners, and presenting an image, while at the same time wanting to get her freak on. Heather and Carole are simply pointing out what many others have over the years. And we pointed it out even without Lu having said terrible things about us or our character, or accusing us of things on Twitter or National TV.

 

Totally.  Ramona even brought it up at one of the VERY first reunions - season 1 or 2.  Moaner was alluding to the fact that "The Countess" was just her TV persona, and in real life, Luanne was much more fun and carefree.  She said "Luanne likes her men..."  and then I think Lu (or somebody) cut her off before she could elaborate. Because Lu was still "married" at the time (clearly they were separated or had an open relationship though...)

[Duke2801]

#teamcoolheather

Holla motherfucker!

 

 

Can I get an Amen and Hallelujah?  I feel like I'm losing my mind reading some of these responses.  I'm taking some of these posts too personally and it's starting to piss me off, so I should just back away slowly.  I mentioned this in the first look thread, but as uncomfortable as it makes me to speculate, I think Heather displayed a triggering reaction.  We've seen Heather for three years now, and as emotional as she can get, I believe she's only cried once, and it is was related to her son's medical issues.  She was genuinely emotional and overwrought, and her fear that the guy was masturbating while looking at them, is not a thought I would have.  It is a thought that someone who's been assaulted would easily jump to.  I think Carole was upset too, but part of her reaction (to me) was genuine concern for Heather, and I felt there was some unspoken things occurring between the two of them.

 

I'm not looking to engage in unsubstantiated claims that Heather has been traumatized in the past.  I certainly don't wish Heather to come forward and address the issue.  She was a lot more flippant on WWHL, but it's months later, and she doesn't seem the type to let the world in on a past bad experience.  I'm simply attempting to explain why I feel the way I do.  Watching that episode, my gut told me Heather was triggered.  To follow that up by reading posts calling Heather a hysterical drama queen playing up for the cameras, and the one at fault, is treading the line of victim blaming, IMO.  And to cast Carole (whom I don't even like) who seemed to be backing up her genuinely distressed good friend, as a brainless follower pet who secretly runs to Lu (of all people - as if!) apologizing and badmouthing Heather, makes me question why I'm bothering to post.  This is my last post on this particular topic, because as I said, my intention is not to speculate on something that will never be confirmed.  I'm simply attempting to verbalize my reaction to everything.

 

One last thing - In this world of opposites (actions are never to be judged, but reactions are picked apart and judged harshly), I want to be clear on what I was supposed to get from the episode.

 

1. a.  Lu slept with a married man - Do Not Judge - it is slut shaming!

    b.  Kristen stated on camera that man is supposedly married (quite possibly by producer prompting)  - BAD.  Slut-shamer!

2. a.  Bringing back strange men (apparently against the house manager's strenuous protests),  allowing them to wander unattended, allowing them to sleep near my sleeping and uninformed friends - Sexual liberation baby!  Girl's gotta scratch an itch.

    b.  Expressing alarm when discovering said naked stranger - Puritanical slut shamer who obviously never gets laid.

3. a.  Bringing back randos and then fucking them when you're so drunk that you can't remember if their name is Joe/James/Whatever, then expecting those you placed in an unsafe situation to be complicit in your fake classy show persona - Cool.

    b.  Finding you've been placed in an unsafe situation by a friend, and complaining - Uncool.

4. Going on a nonsensical drunken tirade (replete with food flying from your mouth) about the horrors of the "F word", whilst simultaneously screaming drunken "fucks" in a restaurant, speaking about "pure people", then devolving to nonsensical slurred gibberish - just a woman who's tired and overwhelmed, and driven to this behavior by foul mouthed slut-shamers.

5.  Drunken weeping and screaming about being left behind, and only attacking one of the "offenders" and calling her a bitch -  well, etiquette states we should all walk in together.  And again, poor thing's just wrung out.

6.  Get thrown under the bus by your co-conspirator ONS buddy - do not get angry at your buddy.  Instead blame the ones inconvenienced by your buddy, and conceive wild tale of being set up to be caught fucking on camera.

 

I want to marry your post and have 10,000 of its babies. 

[ElsieH]

I hope someone at the reunion directly asks Ramona if she would have taken the same irresponsible risks had her college age daughter been in the house. Would she still have been okay putting a drunk stranger in a bedroom next door to her daughter and leaving him for hours?  Sorry, not sorry?  It was an incredibly thoughtless, irresponsible, rude choice that could have ended very badly. It's like drunk driving.  Most of the time no one gets hurts.  Doesn't mean you should ever take the chance. 

 

No one will, because as usual the reunion was filmed before any of this aired. So once again, we won't be getting to the bottom of it.

[SweetieDarling]

She definitely said a bunch of guys.  By the time she said it, they'd been home several days from T&C.  Heather knew by then, that it was only 2 guys.  But because she likes to bring the drama, she threw out the word "bunch" hoping it would stick, imo.

 

And because she's done this before, that's why I question whether the guy was laying on top of the sheets, bare assed naked as she would like us to believe, OR if she saw his bare foot sticking out from under the covers and cried naked wolf.

And this was after she corrected Luann's version of the story, telling she had it "totally wrong" when Luann said she "busted down" her door.  ok, she didn't bust down the door, but she did come in like a police raid; imo, close enough when you're sound asleep,

Edited July 16, 2015 by AnitaKnight

[Crikey]

OMGosh, did you see both Carole and Dorinda walk into Manny's apartment without knocking?  Quelle Horreur!  How dare they!

 

I learned that not knocking on a front door at a HW event was awful, just awful from the time Heather got the bitchy bossy label for not knocking on Dorinda's door in the Berkshires. 

Of course they didn't need to knock as they were already mic'ed up and expected.  Same as with Heather in the Berkshires.

Balance, it's a good thing.

[racked]

She definitely said a bunch of guys.  By the time she said it, they'd been home several days from T&C.  Heather knew by then, that it was only 2 guys.  But because she likes to bring the drama, she threw out the word "bunch" hoping it would stick, imo.

 

And because she's done this before, that's why I question whether the guy was laying on top of the sheets, bare assed naked as she would like us to believe, OR if she saw his bare foot sticking out from under the covers and cried naked wolf.

 

To be fair, she might have just heard 2 guys plus Luann's voice and thought it was a sausage party. Reasonable assumption, as Lu's voice seems to dip a few more octaves when she's drunk and on the prowl. 

 

I would still be pissed as HELL to find some random passed out drunk anywhere near me, clothed or naked.  The naked factor just ups the ick factor. It's unreal to me that women who are 50+ did that to their supposed friends. I am a grown ass man who can defend himself but I would still be raging after that. Just because nothing happened doesn't mean there was no threat. Guess I know too many people who have been victimized by strangers to dismiss what is really rational fear. 

Edited July 16, 2015 by racked

[ZaldamoWilder]

I'm glad I don't live in a world where I assume every stranger is a serial killer, rapist, jewel thief, jerk off enthusiast, or into taking pics of me sleeping.

 

(no snark) I think it's a blessing to be able to have this assumption, but, statistically, we do actually live in a world like this.  Not every stranger, but more than a few.

 

I don't think Heather was threatened. I think she was pissed because she didn't think the guy should be there. How threatening is the sleeping man to her? Does she think he is going to hear her in the room, rise from slumber, and nakedly attack her? He isn't a zombie.

 

I think it's cool that LuAnn is comfortable with herself and her sexuality to enjoy the company of men. Heather was not in danger, nothing happened to her, nothing was stolen, and the naked guy was fast asleep. If anyone was going to be robbed and raped it would have happened already. It's not like the guy is going to party, fuck Ramona (or LuAnn) go to sleep, then wake up and fighting a nasty hangover look for some strange woman to rape. Let's be real about this. In the morning after everything is over, nothing is going to happen. Heather is upset because of something that DIDN'T happen, and because something happened that she was not in control of. 

 

I love LuAnn. If she wants to fuck some hot guys and have fun, I say go for it. Enjoy your life. 

 

Is this what would justify Heather's rage?  

 

Heather was upset because of the potential for catastrophe that exists when a woman is vulnerable to a man. 

 

I'm going to liken the last sentence to something I heard just before NYC banned smoking in restaurants, well damn near in all public spaces.  About smokers in general, someone said think of if like this:  I don't have a problem with your choice to smoke, but our levels of influence are not the same.  Your choice to smoke in public, eliminates my choice not to.  When I heard that statement I thought Sweet Baby Jesus that was simply brilliant because it illustrated the point that cigarette smoke cannot be contained.  I've since used that analogy in my mind to apply to many different things and like a true recall geek, I'm stoked to have the chance to use it again here.   The problem with Heather being an asshole for reacting that way since nothing happened is, that, nothing happening, thank God is an outcome of happenstance and fortune when the drunk and possibly nude man Ramona didn't want to be bothered with to such an extent that SHE didn't sleep next to him, is not someone that Ramona herself was capable of containing.   Naked didn't ever bother Heather before, girls gone wild on vacation didn't ever bother Heather before but placing your housemates in a position of vulnerability and/or danger that they're not even made aware of is something every woman should be going apeshit about.   It's a little bit like wondering why anyone ever gets mad at drunk drivers when they make it home without incident.   I think it's perfectly okay to exercise one's right to have fucked up judgment, as long as it doesn't affect anyone else.

[Sincerely Yours]

I hope someone at the reunion directly asks Ramona if she would have taken the same irresponsible risks had her college age daughter been in the house. Would she still have been okay putting a drunk stranger in a bedroom next door to her daughter and leaving him for hours?  Sorry, not sorry?  It was an incredibly thoughtless, irresponsible, rude choice that could have ended very badly. It's like drunk driving.  Most of the time no one gets hurts.  Doesn't mean you should ever take the chance. 

At that other people are stupid overreacters when they decide to call you out on it...

[archer1267]

She didn't even wake Carol to get out her camera to document this.  Isn't that why Carol brought the camera?

 

 

OMG, I totally forgot about the camera. When they first were at the airport and Carole had that thing running, I called "foreshadowing!" The women have mentioned that something big went down on T&C and caused a big fall-out between LuAnn and Carole/Heather. When I saw Carole playing Heather Donahue* I suspected that she'd eventually capture something on tape and it would become a big point of contention. I thought, "that camera's going to get someone in trouble." LOL…I was wrong!

 

* Heather Donahue from Blair Witch Project; she became glued to her camera, much to the chagrin of her fellow witch-hunters

[SistaLadybug]

(no snark) I think it's a blessing to be able to have this assumption, but, statistically, we do actually live in a world like this.  Not every stranger, but more than a few.

 

 

Is this what would justify Heather's rage?  

 

Heather was upset because of the potential for catastrophe that exists when a woman is vulnerable to a man. 

 

I'm going to liken the last sentence to something I heard just before NYC banned smoking in restaurants, well damn near in all public spaces.  About smokers in general, someone said think of if like this:  I don't have a problem with your choice to smoke, but our levels of influence are not the same.  Your choice to smoke in public, eliminates my choice not to.  When I heard that statement I thought Sweet Baby Jesus that was simply brilliant because it illustrated the point that cigarette smoke cannot be contained.  I've since used that analogy in my mind to apply to many different things and like a true recall geek, I'm stoked to have the chance to use it again here.   The problem with Heather being an asshole for reacting that way since nothing happened is, that, nothing happening, thank God is an outcome of happenstance and fortune when the drunk and possibly nude man Ramona didn't want to be bothered with to such an extent that SHE didn't sleep next to him, is not someone that Ramona herself was capable of containing.   Naked didn't ever bother Heather before, girls gone wild on vacation didn't ever bother Heather before but placing your housemates in a position of vulnerability and/or danger that they're not even made aware of is something every woman should be going apeshit about.   It's a little bit like wondering why anyone ever gets mad at drunk drivers when they make it home without incident.   I think it's perfectly okay to exercise one's right to have fucked up judgment, as long as it doesn't affect anyone else.

Girl, if we were in church, I would throw my prayer cloth at you right now! 

The doors of the church are open.  Won't you come?

[shoegal]

...Of course lots of things could have happened. And they could have happened even if he had stayed in Ramona's room. Or even if hadn't stayed over at all. ...

This is the part that gets me. Heather and Carole have stated multiple times that if Ramona had been in bed with him, it would have been fine, awesome even! If their concern was their safety, what would the presence of Ramona do, exactly? The naked guy is not going to rob them, or violate them, or otherwise endanger them because Ramona is in the room with him? And they are only in danger if the random man sleeps over? LuAnn's man was no danger because he left before they woke up and therefore they didn't see him? Edited July 16, 2015 by shoegal

[ZaldamoWilder]

Girl, if we were in church, I would throw my prayer cloth at you right now! 

The doors of the church are open.  Won't you come?

 

ROTFLMAO!!!  Is there one, Lawd?  You owe me approximately 4 replacement ounces of a dunkin donuts Arnold Palmer.

 

The naked guy is not going to rob them, or violate them, or otherwise endanger them because Ramona is in the room with him?

 

The whole crux is that nobody, but especially Ramona, because she isn't in the room, has any way to know this.

 

This is the part that gets me. Heather and Carole have stated multiple times that if Ramona had been in bed with him, it would have been fine, awesome even! If their concern was their safety, what would the presence of Ramona do, exactly? The naked guy is not going to rob them, or violate them, or otherwise endanger them because Ramona is in the room with him? And they are only in danger if the random man sleeps over? LuAnn's man was no danger because he left before they woke up and therefore they didn't see him?

 

I believe their concerns were multi-layered.  Safety was one yes, but at the top of their list was Ramona's judgment.  Lack thereof, actually.  In even her semi incapacitated state, she didn't feel comfortable enough with that man to have stayed with him but put her housemates in the position of being physically closer to a stranger than she herself preferred.  She didn't trust that dude enough to sleep in the same bed with him but exposes him to a house full of other unaware/sleeping women and their stuff?   Oh my God, ya'll are scaring me.   And yes ma'am, if you have company and the man you're with wakes up, there's a 50/50 chance that wakes you up in time to say, hey, where are you going? Oh, into the jack and jill bathroom that we're sharing with my girlfriends who don't know you're here, yeah, hang on a sec, lemme make sure it's all clear.  It wasn't just the danger but the complete disrespect and disregard Ramona displayed by putting her friends in a position of disadvantage over a fucking stranger.   Heather didn't have a problem with LuAnn's ONS because, stay or go, he was never out of her reach.

[WireWrap]

This is the part that gets me. Heather and Carole have stated multiple times that if Ramona had been in bed with him, it would have been fine, awesome even! If their concern was their safety, what would the presence of Ramona do, exactly? The naked guy is not going to rob them, or violate them, or otherwise endanger them because Ramona is in the room with him? And they are only in danger if the random man sleeps over? LuAnn's man was no danger because he left before they woke up and therefore they didn't see him?

 Bottom line, you bring a guy back to a shared house, he is YOUR responsibility, not that of your fellow house mates and you do not DUMP him off in a room connected to a bedroom with 2 women sleeping without telling them. PERIOD! My GOD, how hard is it for Ramona to knock on their, H/C, door and let them know?

[shoegal]

The whole crux is that nobody, but especially Ramona, because she isn't in the room, has any way to know this.

I believe their concerns were multi-layered. Safety was one yes, but at the top of their list was Ramona's judgment. Lack thereof, actually. In even her semi incapacitated state, she didn't feel comfortable enough with that man to have stayed with him but put her housemates in the position of being physically closer to a stranger than she herself preferred. She didn't trust that dude enough to sleep in the same bed with him but exposes him to a house full of other unaware/sleeping women and their stuff? Oh my God, ya'll are scaring me. And yes ma'am, if you have company and the man you're with wakes up, there's a 50/50 chance that wakes you up in time to say, hey, where are you going? Oh, into the jack and jill bathroom that we're sharing with my girlfriends who don't know you're here, yeah, hang on a sec, lemme make sure it's all clear. It wasn't just the danger but the complete disrespect and disregard Ramona displayed by putting her friends in a position of disadvantage over a fucking stranger. Heather didn't have a problem with LuAnn's ONS because, stay or go, he was never out of her reach.

In a house full of staff, other women and cameras, I'm supposed to believe that Ramona being in the room provides protection? If you are going to violate sleeping women, two in one room, there is just as much chance that one of them would wake up as well. If the guy had nefarious intentions, I don't see a difference in safety between a sleeping Heather and Carole and a sleeping Carole, Heather and Ramona. Ramona passed out in the bed with him doesn't negate the risk they could run into the guy in the bathroom.

What was to stop LuAnn's man from going upstairs to use the bathroom in Heather and Caroles room? Or entering their room at all? I can't imagine that he was never out of LuAnn's sight. Why isn't it a danger to have the guys in the house at all? It's interesting that Kristen and the other women weren't freaked out, one of the men could just as easily gone into one of their rooms.

Also, I don't believe that Ramona told him she could sleep in the spare room because she didn't "feel comfortable" with his presence, I believe it's because she's a tease who is still in love with Mario and had no intention of sleeping with the guy.

I just feel like it's a weird thing to say that catching Ramona with the guy would have been awesome. It feels like it's not *really* a safety issue. I understand being caught off guard by the guy, and being startled and even scared in that moment, but not the idea that it would be perfectly fine if Ramona was sleeping with him, or if he left before they woke up. It doesn't add up to me.

Edited July 16, 2015 by shoegal

[WireWrap]

In a house full of staff, other women and cameras, I'm supposed to believe that Ramona being in the room provides protection? If you are going to violate sleeping women, two in one room, there is just as much chance that one of them would wake up as well. If the guy had nefarious intentions, I don't see a difference in safety between a sleeping Heather and Carole and a sleeping Carole, Heather and Ramona. Ramona passed out in the bed with him doesn't negate the risk they could run into the guy in the bathroom.

What was to stop LuAnn's man from going upstairs to use the bathroom in Heather and Caroles room? Or entering their room at all? I can't imagine that he was never out of LuAnn's sight. Why isn't it a danger to have the guys in the house at all? It's interesting that Kristen and the other women weren't freaked out, one of the men could just as easily gone into one of their rooms.

Also, I don't believe that Ramona told him she could sleep in the spare room because she didn't "feel comfortable" with his presence, I believe it's because she's a tease who is still in love with Mario and had no intention of sleeping with the guy.

I just feel like it's a weird thing to say that catching Ramona with the guy would have been awesome. It feels like it's not *really* a safety issue. I understand being caught off guard by the guy, and being startled and even scared in that moment, but not the idea that it would be perfectly fine if Ramona was sleeping with him, or if he left before they woke up. It doesn't add up to me.

You have a point, bringing any stranger into the house was stupid, irresponsible and put them all at risk, especially 2 guys together. That said, you bring a random guy back for whatever reason, he is YOUR responsibility, not the other women. Seriously, these 2 guys could have harmed not only LuAnn/Ramona but also all of the other women without anyone stopping them because most were flat out drunk and or asleep. IMO, no one has the right to endanger the safety of the other HWs just to get their itch scratched or to payback a soon to be ex. If they need to get their freak on that badly during a 4 day trip, rent a room elsewhere. LOL

[ZaldamoWilder]

In a house full of staff, other women and cameras, I'm supposed to believe that Ramona being in the room provides protection? If you are going to violate sleeping women, two in one room, there is just as much chance that one of them would wake up as well. If the guy had nefarious intentions, I don't see a difference in safety between a sleeping Heather and Carole and a sleeping Carole, Heather and Ramona. Ramona passed out in the bed with him doesn't negate the risk they could run into the guy in the bathroom.

What was to stop LuAnn's man from going upstairs to use the bathroom in Heather and Caroles room? Or entering their room at all? I can't imagine that he was never out of LuAnn's sight. Why isn't it a danger to have the guys in the house at all? It's interesting that Kristen and the other women weren't freaked out, one of the men could just as easily gone into one of their rooms.

Also, I don't believe that Ramona told him she could sleep in the spare room because she didn't "feel comfortable" with his presence, I believe it's because she's a tease who is still in love with Mario and had no intention of sleeping with the guy.

I just feel like it's a weird thing to say that catching Ramona with the guy would have been awesome. It feels like it's not *really* a safety issue. I understand being caught off guard by the guy, and being startled and even scared in that moment, but not the idea that it would be perfectly fine if Ramona was sleeping with him, or if he left before they woke up. It doesn't add up to me.

 

But see "if" he had nefarious intentions is something no one ever knows until the moment of disaster.  No one, so really what I'm saying is, if you care about your girlfriends, mitigate the risk by giving them a heads up.  Because: 

 

Why isn't it a danger to have the guys in the house at all?

 

it is.

 

I'm a Judge Judy fan so forgive the ramble - collision insurance.  There's a whole crop of the population who believes, eh, why waste the money when chances are, it won't happen.  I apologize, I can already hear Heather's preachiness creeping into my typing lol.  The point I'm making is that responsible adults prepare for possibilities not probabilities.

 

I'm not even sure that Kristen and Dorinda encountered this dude.  Heather did.  Carole got worked up into a lather for the same reasons Heather did and they were in the same room, so her arm flapping didn't bother me either.

 

The reason I think Lu's dude wasn't out of her reach was because none of the other women report encountering him.   To your point, that makes him no less a potential danger, but if the music is loud enough to cause whoever's home at 3am to stir and there are more house occupants that are still out and none of these other ladies coming in, walking about and waking up at various times encountered, let alone knew about LuAnn's man, she observed the basic rule of jumpoffery and kept his ass in that room.  None of which, by the way, minimized her requirement to let her housemates know they were in mixed company. 

forgot to add:  better minds than mine have covered the protection thing, but no Ramona being in the room provides a buffer of consideration, which, is at the very least, what she owed her housemates.

[Sincerely Yours]

 Bottom line, you bring a guy back to a shared house, he is YOUR responsibility, not that of your fellow house mates and you do not DUMP him off in a room connected to a bedroom with 2 women sleeping without telling them. PERIOD! My GOD, how hard is it for Ramona to knock on their, H/C, door and let them know?

POINT. BLANK! Hollaaaaaa!

[Sincerely Yours]

In a house full of staff, other women and cameras, I'm supposed to believe that Ramona being in the room provides protection?

 

I've been curious about the idea of production and camera being some sort of deterent to bad shit happening and I enjoy all the examples about how we've seen reality shows where production didn't step in or protect and kept filming instead.  But what about the obvious reason why considering staff/production protection is pretty lame? Does production and staff not sleep???

Edited July 16, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[Sincerely Yours]

 

forgot to add:  better minds than mine have covered the protection thing, but no Ramona being in the room provides a buffer of consideration, which, is at the very least, what she owed her housemates.

I like that "buffer of consideration".

 

Bottom line. That whole situation was wrong on so many levels. Some examples more reaching that others but none out of the realm of possibility. You don't throw caution to the wind on behalf of 5 other women. It's not anyone's right to make decisions that disregards another persons sense of  safety and if it's a "my bad" moment don't rewrite logic to fit an agenda that leaves you blameless. It's plain old ridiculous.

[Crikey]

I hope I stay uncool enough to tell grandchildren that anyone bringing home strangers (whether for banging or just sleeping) for the night is dangerous.  If they shove the slut shaming card in front of me, I will be uncool enough to tell them not to deflect from my point about the dangers.

I hope I stay uncool enough to warn my friends if, while they are sleeping and vulnerable,  I invite a stranger into my home then leave him/her alone, unattended.  I would rather be considerate than cool.

I hope I stay uncool enough that if I found out my taxi driver/pilot was impaired with alcohol/pills it would be OK for me to be really  upset over what might have happened.  That taxi company/airline would hear from me. 

I hope I an uncool enough that, should the airline just shrug it off and say nothing bad happened, I don't smile and apologize for complaining.

I hope I stay uncool enough to realize that calling me uncool for not agreeing with your point is just a manipulation.

 

I was uncool before being uncool was cool.  :)

Edited July 16, 2015 by Crikey

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

I hope someone at the reunion directly asks Ramona if she would have taken the same irresponsible risks had her college age daughter been in the house. Would she still have been okay putting a drunk stranger in a bedroom next door to her daughter and leaving him for hours?  Sorry, not sorry?  It was an incredibly thoughtless, irresponsible, rude choice that could have ended very badly. It's like drunk driving.  Most of the time no one gets hurts.  Doesn't mean you should ever take the chance. 

I just read a link of Heather responding to her alleged quitting of the show and in the link she said that Ramona DID come to her and give her a heartfelt apology that we will of course never see on camera. Ramona actually did say that she coaches Avery not to do this very thing, and Ramona did it, and she was very sorry and that it was wrong.

 

Of course we'll never see that on camera!

 

I will try to find the actual link because it had some other scoop on that night- most of it stuff we already know.

 

"Ramona [singer] was irresponsible, she admitted to her irresponsibility… Ramona came to me and said, it’s the first thing I’ve always told [my daughter] Avery not to do, and I did it, and I’m sorry, and that was it and it was over. And I was like thank you for acknowledging it…” Uhhhh… well we clearly didn’t see THAT footage!" Heather Thomson 

 

http://www.realitytea.com/2015/07/15/heather-thomson-confronts-rumors-quitting-real-housewives-new-york-behind-scenes-turks-caicos/

Edited July 16, 2015 by Alonzo Mosely FBI

[ryebread]

In even her semi incapacitated state, she didn't feel comfortable enough with that man to have stayed with him but put her housemates in the position of being physically closer to a stranger than she herself preferred.  She didn't trust that dude enough to sleep in the same bed with him but exposes him to a house full of other unaware/sleeping women and their stuff?  

 

Just because Lu started boning one doesn't mean the other wanted to sleep with Moaner. Perhaps he just asked for a bedroom because his friend was busy getting laid and the friend was his ride.  Maybe Ro's guy was married and although he might've been up for a party at the house, he wasn't going to screw anybody.  Lu and her dude went to her room, Ramona went to hers, and the other guy went to Bethenny's.  I was in a similar sitch. Only I was the one that fell asleep (not naked) in a spare room while my friend was having sexy times with some rando that we'd met in a bar.  His friend and I just weren't into each other so we listened to some music, smoked a joint, I went to a sofa in the den and he went to his room.  Granted we were in our twenties, but just because Ramona brought him home doesn't mean she had her way, and then sent him off to another bed.

 

That said, I do understand Heather's fear and I wouldn't have liked it either.  But my reaction wouldn't have been as dramatic or delayed as Heather's was.

[ZaldamoWilder]

I like that "buffer of consideration".

 

Bottom line. That whole situation was wrong on so many levels. Some examples more reaching that others but none out of the realm of possibility. You don't throw caution to the wind on behalf of 5 other women. It's not anyone's right to make decisions that disregards another persons sense of  safety and if it's a "my bad" moment don't rewrite logic to fit an agenda that leaves you blameless. It's plain old ridiculous.

 

Right there.  Make the decision to lower or move or alter your boundaries for you.  For me? AND I don't know?  That's what Heather Dubrow would call a Defcon 4. 

 

I was uncool before being uncool was cool.  :)

 

Girl can you please make room for me on that bench? lol!  Yesterday just before I posted something to respond to gimmepizzauoldtroll, I said to myself now what do I call the cut LuAnn made?  Does her generation even call em records?  Lawd.

[lunastartron]

I'm with shoegal. Heather was aware that she was in "mixed company"; didn't she allude to hearing "male voices" at some point in addition to the music? Kristen and Dorinda were both aware that the men were in the house presumably if everyone returned from the club around the same time/together. Ro's presence in the room would have had absolutely done nothing to mitigate a scenario in which this supposedly nude man crept around the house to kill Heather and/or masturbate over her wearing her jewelry. Ro was intoxicated herself and had passed out. She would have been unconscious during this man's - who somehow, despite also being inebriated to the point of unconsciousness - terrorization of the house. But it would have been all good as long as Ramona was in the bed with him according to HC. Neither was Lu's trick problematic according to HC. But these men could have hypothetically wrought just as much havoc yet that fact does nothing to explain HC's histrionics because it was completely fine to have the men in the house as long as Ro and Lu passed out next to them. It's a very arbitrary line to draw in the indulgence of paranoid hypotheticals.

[Roxy]

Dorinda has an anger problem that she can't control when she's blasted. She needs to stay sober and try to keep her crazy in check. It seems that she and Heather are okay off the show- as per WWHL- so maybe she's trying to make a place for herself on the show. Don't know.

 

I think Kristin was being edited down and will be out next season. She's given no time or perspective unless it's from someone else's story.

 

Carole and Bethenny have gotten less annoying with less airtime. Editing them down is very helpful.

 

Heather did over react to some extent but it shouldn't have made Luann so mad. She was pissed and freaked, so what? I thought the Countess was being uncool about Heather's spazziness which, in some way, was understandable.

 

I think Luann didn't like being "outed" as being a little slutty on television. It's okay, Luann, you can be an aging slut. It's not a big deal. But it does make you seem less "royal".

 

How funny that Sonja was the most stable? LOL.

[ZaldamoWilder]

Just because Lu started boning one doesn't mean the other wanted to sleep with Moaner. Perhaps he just asked for a bedroom because his friend was busy getting laid and the friend was his ride.  Maybe Ro's guy was married and although he might've been up for a party at the house, he wasn't going to screw anybody.  Lu and her dude went to her room, Ramona went to hers, and the other guy went to Bethenny's.  I was in a similar sitch. Only I was the one that fell asleep (not naked) in a spare room while my friend was having sexy times with some rando that we'd met in a bar.  His friend and I just weren't into each other so we listened to some music, smoked a joint, I went to a sofa in the den and he went to his room.  Granted we were in our twenties, but just because Ramona brought him home doesn't mean she had her way, and then sent him off to another bed.

 

That said, I do understand Heather's fear and I wouldn't have liked it either.  But my reaction wouldn't have been as dramatic or delayed as Heather's was.

 

Ya'll are gonna make me pull out my female chauvinist flag huh? Lol.  Ok, I'll do it.   The way(s) in which your scenario differs from what Ramona did:  (1) you and your friend were at the guys' house, they brought two men to where they *lived*; (2) You can snatch her up and leave whenever you'd like because again, you're the guest, you don't have the responsibility of shoving someone out of your place  (3) Comparatively speaking 20 year old young woman to a 20 year old young man, you were a fraction the potential physical danger to him that he was to you and D. (bolded) in which case, that's what cabs are for.  go home.

 

I wouldn't even call your story a fair comparison, Ramona has a 20 year old not is a 20 year old.

[ryebread]

I just feel like it's a weird thing to say that catching Ramona with the guy would have been awesome. It feels like it's not *really* a safety issue. I understand being caught off guard by the guy, and being startled and even scared in that moment, but not the idea that it would be perfectly fine if Ramona was sleeping with him, or if he left before they woke up. It doesn't add up to me.

 

Yes, that was very weird how Heather, on WWHL, was saying she would have "loved it.  I would've been like, "YO!!"....." if she'd opened the door and Ramona and Lu had guys in bed with them.  So yeah, I see your point about why would it have made Heather feel safer if the guys were in bed with drunken Lu and Moaner.

 

I mean, you either view strangers in the house as a safety risk or you don't.

 

What if the sleeping person in the house had been a woman?  Would H/C have been as freaked?  I mean, a woman might be less threatening physically (or not) but she can still steal your jewelry.

[jnymph]

 

 

How funny that Sonja was the most stable? LOL.

 

Best part of the episode.

You know you're a damn hot mess when Sonja "out-stables" you.  

[ryebread]

I wouldn't even call your story a fair comparison, Ramona has a 20 year old not is a 20 year old.

 

Well, to be honest, I wasn't using my story as a comparison to the safety factor.  It was more to say that it's possible Ramona didn't sleep with the guy at all.

 

I've read that Ramona screwed him and didn't trust him to sleep with him so kicked him out of her bed.  That the guy was drunk.  That he was naked. My story was only to say, it's possible the guy didn't screw her, wasn't drunk, nor naked.  Because I was that guy once. 

 

Only I was teeeeeeny bit wasted....

[ZaldamoWilder]

I'm with shoegal. Heather was aware that she was in "mixed company"; didn't she allude to hearing "male voices" at some point in addition to the music? Kristen and Dorinda were both aware that the men were in the house presumably if everyone returned from the club around the same time/together. Ro's presence in the room would have had absolutely done nothing to mitigate a scenario in which this supposedly nude man crept around the house to kill Heather and/or masturbate over her wearing her jewelry. Ro was intoxicated herself and had passed out. She would have been unconscious during this man's - who somehow, despite also being inebriated to the point of unconsciousness - terrorization of the house. But it would have been all good as long as Ramona was in the bed with him according to HC. Neither was Lu's trick problematic according to HC. But these men could have hypothetically wrought just as much havoc yet that fact does nothing to explain HC's histrionics because it was completely fine to have the men in the house as long as Ro and Lu passed out next to them. It's a very arbitrary line to draw in the indulgence of paranoid hypotheticals.

 

We might have to agree to disagree about the characterization of concern for their personal safety as paranoia, lol, however, comma.  What I will say is that Heather's problem had to to with the situation overall, not just security about their valuables, the potential for whatever the guests were going to do but personal responsibility and a little consideration.  You brought a dude home? Ok, fine, tell me so I can lock my door or I can lock your side of the bathroom door that we share so we don't run into each other all rock out with his cock out in the middle of the night.  Basic give a bish a heads up.   But you know what we must remember? It's Ramona we're expecting this of.  So, nevermind what I said lol!

[ZaldamoWilder]

Well, to be honest, I wasn't using my story as a comparison to the safety factor.  It was more to say that it's possible Ramona didn't sleep with the guy at all.

 

I've read that Ramona screwed him and didn't trust him to sleep with him so kicked him out of her bed.  That the guy was drunk.  That he was naked. My story was only to say, it's possible the guy didn't screw her, wasn't drunk, nor naked.  Because I was that guy once. 

 

Only I was teeeeeeny bit wasted....

 

Okay, I gotcha.  Then I reiterate that:  That's what cabs are for by Dionne Warwick. 

[Sincerely Yours]

I hope I stay uncool enough to tell grandchildren that anyone bringing home strangers (whether for banging or just sleeping) for the night is dangerous.  If they shove the slut shaming card in front of me, I will be uncool enough to tell them not to deflect from my point about the dangers.

I hope I stay uncool enough to warn my friends if, while they are sleeping and vulnerable,  I invite a stranger into my home then leave him/her alone, unattended.  I would rather be considerate than cool.

I hope I stay uncool enough that if I found out my taxi driver/pilot was impaired with alcohol/pills it would be OK for me to be really  upset over what might have happened.  That taxi company/airline would hear from me. 

I hope I an uncool enough that, should the airline just shrug it off and say nothing bad happened, I don't smile and apologize for complaining.

I hope I stay uncool enough to realize that calling me uncool for not agreeing with your point is just a manipulation.

 

I was uncool before being uncool was cool.  :)

Absolutely hilarious and loved every uncool point!!! (as I adjust my horn rimmed glasses, straighten my pocket protector, pull the waist of my pants 5 inches above my navel and do the Carlton dance). :-)

[shoegal]

Yes, that was very weird how Heather, on WWHL, was saying she would have "loved it.  I would've been like, "YO!!"....." if she'd opened the door and Ramona and Lu had guys in bed with them.  So yeah, I see your point about why would it have made Heather feel safer if the guys were in bed with drunken Lu and Moaner.

 

I mean, you either view strangers in the house as a safety risk or you don't.

Exactly. If Heather and Carole had that position, I would understand, but they don't.

According to Heather and Carole:

Random stranger sleeping alone in the room next to theirs- danger

Random stranger sleeping next to Ramona in the room next to theirs-awesome and no danger

Random man sleeping in the room next theirs- danger

Random man sleeping in the room down the hall from theirs-fine and no danger

Random man potentially wandering the house while they are asleep and is still there when they wake up- danger

Random man potentially wandering the house but gone before they wake up-fine and no danger

Hmmmmm, not really buying it.

[metalchik]

Yes, of course you're entitled to your opinion.  As am I.  I guess our minds work differently.  I never would have jumped to the conclusion that someone (anyone!) entered the bedroom of two women, and jerked off while watching them sleep.  I could imagine 100 different scenarios before I'd get to that one.  I didn't hear or see anything that would lead me in that direction in this situation.

 

 My assumption is that he was messing around with Ramona and then he went to sleep.  As often happens with men who drink, stumble into someone's bed in the wee hours of the morning and have sex.  After that, they go to sleep.  At that point it's pretty much a given.  Or maybe they fumbled around a bit, he was too drunk so not much happened, and he went to sleep.  I just can't assume that he was wandering around the house up to no good.  It makes no sense to me without having more reason to think so.

 

And we differ again because I think we do have reason to disbelieve Heather.  She exaggerates all the time, and she especially was exaggerating during her crazy rant.  Maybe he was naked, maybe he wasn't.  Maybe in her hysteria she caught sight of just enough to assume that he was.  But either way I don't find it at all weird that he would be naked.   Whether or not he had sex with Ramona, lots of men sleep naked.  It doesn't make him a pervert, and I don't find that suspicious or the slightest bit unusual.  If he could walk from Ramona's room to the other room, it's completely believable that he would remove his clothing before getting into the bed, drunk or not.  And what was he supposed to wear?  It's not like he brought pajamas!  (I'm mentioning this because you said earlier that people who are drunk enough to pass out don't take their clothing off, and my contention is that he was likely drunk but not necessarily at the point of passing out, and therefore easily could have removed his clothing either before having sex with Ramona or before getting into bed in the other room.  All perfectly normal behavior.)

 

 The most logical explanation for the whole thing, IMO, is that Ramona brought this guy home, they had sex, and he went to sleep in another room because he was too drunk to go home and she didn't want him to be discovered in her bed.  That scenario makes the most sense to me, and I really don't think it was anything more than that.  

I agree with this whole post.  

 

You sure can be drunk and take your clothes off...not proud of it, just sayin lol.

 

And I think jumping to the conclusion of the guy jerking off while watching them sleep is pretty far fetched and quite silly.  But that's my opinion.

[WireWrap]

Just because Lu started boning one doesn't mean the other wanted to sleep with Moaner. Perhaps he just asked for a bedroom because his friend was busy getting laid and the friend was his ride.  Maybe Ro's guy was married and although he might've been up for a party at the house, he wasn't going to screw anybody.  Lu and her dude went to her room, Ramona went to hers, and the other guy went to Bethenny's.  I was in a similar sitch. Only I was the one that fell asleep (not naked) in a spare room while my friend was having sexy times with some rando that we'd met in a bar.  His friend and I just weren't into each other so we listened to some music, smoked a joint, I went to a sofa in the den and he went to his room.  Granted we were in our twenties, but just because Ramona brought him home doesn't mean she had her way, and then sent him off to another bed.

 

That said, I do understand Heather's fear and I wouldn't have liked it either.  But my reaction wouldn't have been as dramatic or delayed as Heather's was.

So send the guy home in a cab or at the very least, let H&C know he is bedding down in the empty part of their suite and to lock their doors.

[shoegal]

We might have to agree to disagree about the characterization of concern for their personal safety as paranoia, lol, however, comma.  What I will say is that Heather's problem had to to with the situation overall, not just security about their valuables, the potential for whatever the guests were going to do but personal responsibility and a little consideration.  You brought a dude home? Ok, fine, tell me so I can lock my door or I can lock your side of the bathroom door that we share so we don't run into each other all rock out with his cock out in the middle of the night.  Basic give a bish a heads up.   But you know what we must remember? It's Ramona we're expecting this of.  So, nevermind what I said lol!

Encountering naked guy in the joint bathroom? Now this I understand, but I never heard Heather express this sentiment. If she had expressed concern that she could have encountered naked guy in the bathroom when she got up to pee or brush her teeth, I would understand, especially if Heather is naked ....although, I have to say that I think it's weird that Heather sleeps naked in a house full of staff, cameras and people (sometimes random people) while sharing a room with Carole, and I'm pretty sure they were sharing a bed because I believe that room has one king bed. If it were me, I'd throw on a nightie.

[ryebread]

And according to Lu, Heather busted down her door after the fact...  I think it minutia.  Heather had no reason to embellish the story when it happen.  When has she done this before?

 

Here is the very first example I remember and remember it well because even though I'd never been a fan of hers it was when I realized her how inauthentic she is.  I even remember writing about it on TWOP and saying "Liar, liar, pants on fire."

 

She and Aviva went for a pedicure.  This was right after Carole told Heather her version of how the ghostwriter lunch had gone down. Heather said in a TH that she was on a fact finding mission.  So she questions Aviva like a prosecuting attorney and tosses some insults, like, no one would buy Aviva's book because she wasn't famous and was the book all about her leg? LOL

 

Now we're at Aviva's party.  And Heather runs right over to Carole to say she'd had a pedi with Aviva and Aviva was the one to start asking questions about Carole's book, etc.  LIAR!  Absolutely untrue.

 

Girl embellishes.  Our suite, our room, MY BED. 

[ryebread]

The discussion about safety has taken such an odd turn.  I am actually starting to look forward to the Tales of Widows Carole and Dorinda and the Traveling Radziwill Urn. 

 

I'll drink to that.  When this season is over I'll be happy if I never hear these phrases again:

 

Girl Code

Cool/Not cool

Naked Man

[lunastartron]

Aviva "sicced her minion on me" in the Hamptons according to Heather. Even though Aviva was engaged with Carole and Amanda, desperate for sceen time, instigated the first exchange she had with Heather of her own volition. And even though Heather literally chased after Amanda, reinitiated the argument with her, then went out of her way to chastise and pursue Aviva subsequently . . . Then whine "don't yell at me" to Reid when he objects to her running after his wife and screaming curse words at her. Shades of "lower your voice" to LuAnn - who wasn't even shouting at the jeans party - while Heather has carte blanche to howl, bellow, curse at anyone she pleases and out and out lie about the details of events that transpired.

[Otherkate]

I'll drink to that.  When this season is over I'll be happy if I never hear these phrases again:

 

Girl Code

Cool/Not cool

Naked Man

 

What about "juice"? Because I may never be able to drink it again.

[ZaldamoWilder]

Encountering naked guy in the joint bathroom? Now this I understand, but I never heard Heather express this sentiment. If she had expressed concern that she could have encountered naked guy in the bathroom when she got up to pee or brush her teeth, I would understand, especially if Heather is naked ....although, I have to say that I think it's weird that Heather sleeps naked in a house full of staff, cameras and people (sometimes random people) while sharing a room with Carole, and I'm pretty sure they were sharing a bed because I believe that room has one king bed. If it were me, I'd throw on a nightie.

 

Lol.  Girl, I.. ok.   

 

She actually did mention this, it was an all encompassing reference to their room, meaning that entire suite was comprised of two bedrooms that were each adjoined at the bathroom - we saw this layout when Sonja/Ramona did their Pamplona room picking.   Somebody upthread mentioned that the bedroom Carole and Heather were in had 2 queen beds in it. 

 

ryebread asked if that same situation would've been a problem if the guests had been women, couldn't they also be jewelry thieves?  Here I have to answer for me and me alone - I'd feel the same disrespect and inconsideration at not having been made aware.  If my shit was gone, I'd be no less furious that the thief were a woman.  Physically it's not the same and ya'll know that.  I'm a little salty at a hypothetical that has us in here comparing apples to oranges, supposing that a woman is as potentially physically threatening as a man is capable of being.  That's not a matter of opinion, ya'll know that's not true. And before there are a boatload of comparisons, the reason it's different from the hypothetical of what scared the shit out of Heather is no one in that house knew that neither of those men were threats.

[Sincerely Yours]

Encountering naked guy in the joint bathroom? Now this I understand, but I never heard Heather express this sentiment. If she had expressed concern that she could have encountered naked guy in the bathroom when she got up to pee or brush her teeth, I would understand, especially if Heather is naked ....although, I have to say that I think it's weird that Heather sleeps naked in a house full of staff, cameras and people (sometimes random people) while sharing a room with Carole, and I'm pretty sure they were sharing a bed because I believe that room has one king bed. If it were me, I'd throw on a nightie.

Does Heather actually have to outline each and all concerns in order to associate the jist being that Heather was concerned and upset about possible unsavory situations arising from the very inconsiderate, potentially dangerous, and completely disrespectful decision that was made? The situation's not a good one and it was a situation that was forced on Heather based on someone else's inconsideration and selfishness. Heather's anger isn't negated because the few examples she gave OUT LOUD don't seem to be valid enough to some or connect in some chain of logic that seems to be needed in order to justify Heathers feelings over the matter. I can't with the whole let's only go by the words that come out of their mouths and not apply simple logic and personal experience to the scenario in order to gauge the appropriateness of certain reactions. Not to mention. That whole ordeal was just not right regardless of which details Heather decided to verbalize her concerns over. The overall point she was trying to make is what matters to me. Splitting hairs over how Heather chose to express her dismay just seems like just that, splitting hairs when the overall point is Ramona and Lu were like being all like uncool.

 

House full of cameras, staff etc. etc. but is this the case when they are sleeping?  I mean I am still not completely convinced that production and camera crew stay on site the whole time. I'm more inclined to believe that they pack up at the end of the day and call it a day, retire for the night until they have to do it all over again the next day. I'm not surprised that these girls go on about their business like they normally would when they aren't filming the season. I would also think this is why Heather had even more reason to be annoyed since I'm guessing that when filming stops for the day they can feel free to walk around in their underwear, pick their nose, drink from the carton etc. and not be as guarded (discretion wise) as they are when the cameras are rolling.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[archer1267]

Bottom line, you bring a guy back to a shared house, he is YOUR responsibility

 

 

The question to me remains why Ramona didn't get the brunt of Heather's anger if it was she who offered the empty room. 

[Freckledbruh]

 

If Heather wants to think danger is lurking everywhere, fine, but it's not reality.  She should have calmly laid down some house rules the next day.

This is where I have an issue with how Heather handled things.  I can understand running up into people's rooms, waking them up and accusing them of things if she woke up to a naked person in her room or some of her stuff was actually stolen.  But that didn't happen.  So why not discuss this with all of the HWs present?  Instead, she starts making assumptions and accusations to innocent parties (Sonja and LuAnn).  In the now immortal declaration of the 70s socialite with swagger known as the Countess, "Uncool."

[ryebread]

What about "juice"? Because I may never be able to drink it again.

 

LOL.  Yes.  Especially since I noticed that whatever was in that juice bottle looked like what was always in the bottom of my granddad's spittoon after her finished a good chew.

 

Oh, and Mother Fucker.  That can take a seat, too.  It's been overdone. 

[BucFan]

So I guess Heather never did get Dorinda's mic-pack off for her.