Figure Skating

[SeanC]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

We have this same argument every year. We need three spots but the third spot goes to Jason Brown. It's a catch-22. We need three spots so we can keep sending Jason Brown every year. Ostensibly you want three spots to maximize your chance for a medal, but Jason Brown has no real shot at a World or Olympic Medal, so there is no greater chance of a medal sending him than if we just send two skaters who aren't Jason Brown.

Three spots isn't just about maximizing medal chances.

We don't know what the podium at 2026 U.S. Nationals will look like. If a couple of the younger guys enjoy real breakout seasons and make the podium alongside Ilia, whoops, you can't send them both to the Olympics and Worlds because the US lost/didn't qualify its third spots this year because you didn't send Jason to 2025 Worlds. 

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I get that people love watching him skate but he's not competitive. His program is like an intermission. He comes out and does the same old, same old and everyone oohs and aahs over "the artistry" then we get back to the real competition with the other skaters. It's like he's a special guest star at the event doing an exhibition number in the middle of the competition.

He finished eighth (and fifth the past two years). I really don't see how that doesn't count as competitive. Likely to make the podium? No. But Worlds is never just about the guys likely to make the podium (and honestly, he wasn't actually that far off the podium, he was 12 back of the bronze medalist, and that was with an iffy short program about 13 points below his personal best).

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

He says he loves to compete, but I don't know how you can say that when you aren't pushing yourself to be more competitive in an era where skaters like Ilia are pushing everyone to do more quads.

He's 30 years old. At this point he's not going to be adding new technical content.

[Is Everyone Gone]

I'm a little tired of the Jason Brown show too, despite his many wonderful qualities as a skater. However, afaik he was never able to add a quad to his arsenal bc he stayed too long with his first coach Kori Aide, who taught him a somewhat flawed jump technique. He still has an issue with the flutz, for example.

[iMonrey]

3 hours ago, SeanC said:

We don't know what the podium at 2026 U.S. Nationals will look like. If a couple of the younger guys enjoy real breakout seasons and make the podium alongside Ilia, whoops, you can't send them both to the Olympics and Worlds because the US lost/didn't qualify its third spots this year because you didn't send Jason to 2025 Worlds

But . . . if Jason Brown competes at Nationals next year that third spot is going to Jason Brown. Probably even if he winds up fourth. Because we're stuck in this causality loop where the prevailing sentiment is, oh, we need Jason Brown to secure that third spot and he's so reliable. So one of those two "breakout" younger guys is going to get screwed over anyway.

3 hours ago, SeanC said:

He finished eighth (and fifth the past two years). I really don't see how that doesn't count as competitive. Likely to make the podium? No.

I should have clarified my definition of "competitive" is that you have a shot at a medal. Jason's shot at a medal grows slimmer every year. I don't know why you keep competing if you know you have no real shot at the podium. If you're up and coming and working your way through the ranks? Sure. If you're Jason Brown, by this time? No, I don't consider that competitive. His component scores keep him in the top 10 but I don't think Ilia or Yuma are worried he's going to beat them. 

3 hours ago, SeanC said:

He's 30 years old. At this point he's not going to be adding new technical content.

Then he should retire. Everyone else is upping their game. 

[Is Everyone Gone]

Personally my BEC's are Chock/Bates and Gilles/Poirier. I find both of them rather uninspiring for how dominant they are. If an ice dance team dominates I want them to be a generational talent like V/M, P/C, etc.

[SeanC]

25 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

But . . . if Jason Brown competes at Nationals next year that third spot is going to Jason Brown. Probably even if he winds up fourth. Because we're stuck in this causality loop where the prevailing sentiment is, oh, we need Jason Brown to secure that third spot and he's so reliable. So one of those two "breakout" younger guys is going to get screwed over anyway.

No, it's simply a matter that nobody has stepped up to be a reliable presence. If there are two better skaters for those two spots, let them show it. There's a whole most-of-a-season to do it. And if they don't, then why shouldn't Jason have it?

25 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I don't know why you keep competing if you know you have no real shot at the podium. If you're up and coming and working your way through the ranks? Sure. If you're Jason Brown, by this time? No, I don't consider that competitive.

Lots of people enjoy competing and skating, and he clearly does. Fumie Suguri kept competing in Japan even when she couldn't qualify for nationals anymore.

[Libby96]

16 minutes ago, SeanC said:

45 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

 

No, it's simply a matter that nobody has stepped up to be a reliable presence. If there are two better skaters for those two spots, let them show it. There's a whole most-of-a-season to do it. And if they don't, then why shouldn't Jason have it?

I have to admit that I kind of rolled my eyes a little when I heard USFS was naming Jason to the team after he had a weak Grand Prix season and then he withdrew from Nationals.  I stand corrected.  That free skate on Saturday was magical, and he saved the third spot for US men’s skating since Andrew Torgashev ended up imploding.  After the skates Andrew had at Nationals, I thought he was establishing himself as the US number two guy, and that he would wrap up a top 10 placement at Worlds.  I really was hoping for that too, because I still think his short program is a masterpiece.  I hope he rebounds next year, but I also kind of hope Jason goes to the Olympics and has a chance to medal in the Team Event.

 

 

 

 

[CeeBeeGee]

7 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

Hallelujah is at the top of the list for me. Some people find it brings emotional and inspiring performances, but for me it's a flat drag from start to finish. 

Much like Bolero, you almost have to earn the right to skate to Hallelujah. I thought Kamila, as lovely a (doped) skater as she was, was far too young and frankly callow to skate to Bolero. It's a complex piece and you need to build it, piece by piece. Why saddle her with that warhorse? Give her something fun and light--her Wednesday program was adorable and very imaginative.

Similarly Hallelujah--I thought Mariah did a lovely job because she feels like an old soul to me. But not everyone can take you on that journey.

[ChicksDigScars]

12 hours ago, Is Everyone Gone said:

Personally my BEC's are Chock/Bates and Gilles/Poirier. I find both of them rather uninspiring for how dominant they are. If an ice dance team dominates I want them to be a generational talent like V/M, P/C, etc.

Well, my guess is that those two pairs, along with Guignard and Fabri, will all retire after the Olympics next year. MAYBE G/F and G/P will stay for 2026 Worlds if C/B win the OGM and retire, which I can see them doing just so they can win a World Championship with C/B not there. But perhaps not. Worlds a month after an Olympics is always a crap shoot at the top. I'm interested to see who shakes out at the top when those three pairs retire. Do Fear and Gibson move to the top? Does CPom get on the podium? Smart and Dieck? Will FB and Cizeron be instantly anointed?

[iMonrey]

14 hours ago, SeanC said:

No, it's simply a matter that nobody has stepped up to be a reliable presence. If there are two better skaters for those two spots, let them show it. There's a whole most-of-a-season to do it. And if they don't, then why shouldn't Jason have it?

I guess I just don't understand the obsession with getting three spots if the third spot always goes to Jason. I'd be fine with just sending two men who aren't Jason.

I'd be interested to know how well Alysa and Kaori know each other, you'd think they were best friends the way Kaori acted after Alyssa came off the ice, and then even hugged her coaches. Do they train together or something? And while Kaori was clapping for Alyssa when the scores came up, she was also crying. It seems she was genuinely happy for Alysa but at the same time I have to think she was also a bit crushed at losing her fourth world title. Mixed emotions. 

[Natasha Fatale]

 

I wondered why Kam and O’Shea weren’t in the Worlds gala.

[Is Everyone Gone]

19 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I'd be interested to know how well Alysa and Kaori know each other, you'd think they were best friends the way Kaori acted after Alyssa came off the ice, and then even hugged her coaches. Do they train together or something? And while Kaori was clapping for Alyssa when the scores came up, she was also crying. It seems she was genuinely happy for Alysa but at the same time I have to think she was also a bit crushed at losing her fourth world title. Mixed emotions. 

Skating is a very small community. Tiny. 

But I think Kaori is just a very gracious person. At the Olympics she was the only person comforting the three Eteri girls who were all melting down for various reasons.

[ChicksDigScars]

1 hour ago, Is Everyone Gone said:

Skating is a very small community. Tiny. 

But I think Kaori is just a very gracious person. At the Olympics she was the only person comforting the three Eteri girls who were all melting down for various reasons.

Starvation and forced drug abuse will do that to young teenage girls. When I saw Ramen Head smugly and calmly coaching other athletes this weekend when she's the main one who should have faced a ban, makes me furious. And I hate to say that I kinda have a negative attitude towards her daughter, too. I guess I should feel sorry for her having a mom willing to go to such abusive lengths to win. I assume Diana Davis was also starved and even drugged for success. 

Kaori seems to be an extremely empathetic person. Probably one of the best representatives the sport could ask for.  

 

[KittenPokerCheater]

1 hour ago, ChicksDigScars said:

Ramen Head

She'll always be Crispy NoodleHead to me!

[SeanC]

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I guess I just don't understand the obsession with getting three spots if the third spot always goes to Jason. I'd be fine with just sending two men who aren't Jason.

Again, there's no rule that one of the spots will always go to Jason (it's not always the third spot that he gets, sometimes it's the second). You simply always want to maximize your allocation and options; as well, this is a nationalistic sport, three men means you show the flag more.

The US now gets three spots at the next Olympics and next Worlds, and there's a whole season to determine who gets to go.

For another scenario, while he's been remarkably durable, Ilia's good health is not guaranteed. What if your reliable superstar can't go next year? Then you really need as many shots at keeping your spots as possible. You might find yourself down to one.

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I'd be interested to know how well Alysa and Kaori know each other, you'd think they were best friends the way Kaori acted after Alyssa came off the ice, and then even hugged her coaches. Do they train together or something? 

They've never trained together or anything like that. They see each other at major events and are booked on some of the same shows, but I don't think there's more to it than that. Kaori does have conversational English, from what I understand, though you seldom see her use it in interviews.

Edited Tuesday at 11:33 PM by SeanC

[CeeBeeGee]

12 hours ago, Is Everyone Gone said:

Skating is a very small community. Tiny. 

But I think Kaori is just a very gracious person. At the Olympics she was the only person comforting the three Eteri girls who were all melting down for various reasons.

Actually IIRC, was Anna melting down? As I recall it, poor gold medalist Anna was sitting frozen in her seat wondering if anyone remembered her while Noodlehead berated Kamila. Until finally Kaori graciously hugged her and congratulated her like the class act that she is. Because of course Noodlehead didn't remember that's your effing job.

 

10 hours ago, ChicksDigScars said:

Starvation and forced drug abuse will do that to young teenage girls. When I saw Ramen Head smugly and calmly coaching other athletes this weekend when she's the main one who should have faced a ban, makes me furious.

UGH. The audience did--not--like--her. People were quietly booing under their breath. *Cough* including me *cough*

 

5 hours ago, SeanC said:

Again, there's no rule that one of the spots will always go to Jason (it's not always the third spot that he gets, sometimes it's the second). You simply always want to maximize your allocation and options; as well, this is a nationalistic sport, three men means you show the flag more.

For another scenario, while he's been remarkably durable, Ilia's good health is not guaranteed. What if your reliable superstar can't go next year? Then you really need as many shots at keeping your spots as possible. You might find yourself down to one.

Also, looking at Jason's performance in these most recent Worlds. He finished fourth on the free skate. Fourth, without a quad, because his component scores were that good. Imagine if he'd skated perfectly in the short (but still without a quad). He would've ended up 6 or 7th--if one or two people above him mess up in the LP, he has a shot at a medal. Sure, it depends on him skating both programs perfectly and someone above him really tanking--but isn't that was Andrew and, to a lesser degree, Yama, did?

[Salacious Kitty]

I hated seeing ramen head in the K&C. I wish there was a way to ban her from coaching outside of Russia. 

[Is Everyone Gone]

7 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Actually IIRC, was Anna melting down? As I recall it, poor gold medalist Anna was sitting frozen in her seat wondering if anyone remembered her while Noodlehead berated Kamila. Until finally Kaori graciously hugged her and congratulated her like the class act that she is. Because of course Noodlehead didn't remember that's your effing job.

Ok just replayed the video. Anna was sitting there absolutely frozen, face an expressionless mask. You got the sense just how miserable the training environment was, if a gold medalist can't feel ANY joy in that moment. 

Noodlehead was berating Kamila. Sasha was hysterical. It was one of the most horrible things I've seen in figure skating: three starving, drugged, abused girls.

And fwiw, I've never liked Adam Rippon after he kind of sneered at how "badly behaved" they were.

[KittenPokerCheater]

To be fair, Sasha melting down (was it Sasha?  I can’t remember her name) was very bed optics.  It did appear like she was being a sore loser.  She was so very overly confident that would win. Crispy Noodlehead’s girls were usually trained/theatened into being composed and her falling apart was a huge surprise for the audience.  And winning Silver is nothing to sneer at, and she did.

The fact that she was being abused is only something that people remembered later.  Which is unfortunate, but at something huge like the Olympics, being so angry/sad at winning a medal when so many other women wanted one…it was not…gracious.  It was not like Karri in this last world championship.

YMMV of course.  This is just my opinion

[anniebird]

On 3/31/2025 at 9:40 PM, Is Everyone Gone said:

Personally my BEC's are Chock/Bates and Gilles/Poirier. I find both of them rather uninspiring for how dominant they are. If an ice dance team dominates I want them to be a generational talent like V/M, P/C, etc.

Ice dancing, which was once the redheaded stepchild of figure skating, became wonderful to watch in the Torvill/Dean era. Then all the rules were put in place which eliminated all the fun things they were doing and now it's boring again. Chock and Bates, while technically superior, are really a snooze to watch and I can't stand her perma-smile - it's so phony. There's no passion, no emotion on her part at all.

[Natasha Fatale]

I’ve been over Chock and Bates for years now (though I did like her when she was skating with Greg Zuerlein), but I do like Gilles and Poirier and Carreira and Ponomarenko. Guignard and Fabbri—no. Just no.

[proserpina65]

On 3/31/2025 at 9:21 PM, iMonrey said:

but I don't think Ilia or Yuma are worried he's going to beat them.

The way Yuma struggled with his long program, he should worry.

On 3/31/2025 at 9:51 PM, SeanC said:

No, it's simply a matter that nobody has stepped up to be a reliable presence. If there are two better skaters for those two spots, let them show it. There's a whole most-of-a-season to do it. And if they don't, then why shouldn't Jason have it?

Exactly.  He isn't making the podium at the Worlds but he HAS been reliable at placing high enough to get the guaranteed third spot for the next time.  None of the younger skaters were doing that.  Should one or more of them step up and become more reliable, then yes, they should get the spot at the World's/Olympics instead of Jason.  On a personal note, I'd much rather watch Jason's artistry than other skaters falling on their asses trying to hit quads any day of the week, with only a very few exceptions.

50 minutes ago, anniebird said:

Ice dancing, which was once the redheaded stepchild of figure skating, became wonderful to watch in the Torvill/Dean era. Then all the rules were put in place which eliminated all the fun things they were doing and now it's boring again. Chock and Bates, while technically superior, are really a snooze to watch and I can't stand her perma-smile - it's so phony. There's no passion, no emotion on her part at all.

I'm glad to know I'm not alone in the wilderness on Chock and Bates.  Yes, they are technically excellent, but I hate watching them because it's like there's no life there when they skate.

[Maelstrom]

12 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Actually IIRC, was Anna melting down? As I recall it, poor gold medalist Anna was sitting frozen in her seat wondering if anyone remembered her while Noodlehead berated Kamila.

5 hours ago, Is Everyone Gone said:

Ok just replayed the video. Anna was sitting there absolutely frozen, face an expressionless mask. You got the sense just how miserable the training environment was, if a gold medalist can't feel ANY joy in that moment. 

...

And fwiw, I've never liked Adam Rippon after he kind of sneered at how "badly behaved" they were.

I've always assumed Anna's frozen reaction was her wondering what kind of price Eteri would make her pay (i.e. punishment) for winning when she wasn't supposed to.

And I must've missed that from Adam, what a crappy thing to say considering what those girls were being put through.

On 3/30/2025 at 9:15 PM, CeeBeeGee said:

I was so excited once I realized what Jason was about to skate. I taped a little of it then forced myself just to enjoy it. God, that man is a treasure. I think this spring I'm going to sign up for the really expensive SOI package so I can meet him :)

Oooh, that would be amazing! I'm both thrilled for you and jealous. 😉 He's certainly a once in a lifetime talent. 💖

On the ice dance front, when does next season's rhythm dance theme get announced? Anyone taking bets on what asinine theme they'll come up with next?

[ChicksDigScars]

1 hour ago, Natasha Fatale said:

I’ve been over Chock and Bates for years now (though I did like her when she was skating with Greg Zuerlein), but I do like Gilles and Poirier and Carreira and Ponomarenko. Guignard and Fabbri—no. Just no.

I almost forgot!! The broadcast didn't show it, but did we get a Coach Babs Look of Death when G/F scores came up and they were behind F/G, and thus likely off the podium (unless G/P and C/B were to implode, which was unlikely to happen). 

Wow. I share a birthday with Babs?! Huh.

[Is Everyone Gone]

4 hours ago, anniebird said:

Ice dancing, which was once the redheaded stepchild of figure skating, became wonderful to watch in the Torvill/Dean era. Then all the rules were put in place which eliminated all the fun things they were doing and now it's boring again. Chock and Bates, while technically superior, are really a snooze to watch and I can't stand her perma-smile - it's so phony. There's no passion, no emotion on her part at all.

It's weird because she appears to be a very fun person off the ice. But when she skates, there's just not much personality. I also think their coaches are not really making interesting programs for them. I liked their snake program, but that jazz montage this year was not it.

1 hour ago, Maelstrom said:

I've always assumed Anna's frozen reaction was her wondering what kind of price Eteri would make her pay (i.e. punishment) for winning when she wasn't supposed to.

And I must've missed that from Adam, what a crappy thing to say considering what those girls were being put through.

Yeah. I was pretty shocked. I thought it was obvious to anyone with a brain that these girls were being severely abused. Normal kids don't act like that. 

It's really hard to watch that competition again.

[Natasha Fatale]

5 hours ago, ChicksDigScars said:

I almost forgot!! The broadcast didn't show it, but did we get a Coach Babs Look of Death when G/F scores came up and they were behind F/G, and thus likely off the podium (unless G/P and C/B were to implode, which was unlikely to happen).

 

I was expecting a Scary Babs Glare of Death at G/F’s scores; glad to hear it actually happened.

That clip never gets old.

[Is Everyone Gone]

1 hour ago, Natasha Fatale said:

 

I was expecting a Scary Babs Glare of Death at G/F’s scores; glad to hear it actually happened.

That clip never gets old.

Ah, Scary Babs. Love her. She seems to be a character, in the best sense. 

What I actually love about her is that she's non-problematic. There's been no accusations of her being abusive. She just has a super strong personality.

[annzeepark914]

4 hours ago, Natasha Fatale said:

 

I was expecting a Scary Babs Glare of Death at G/F’s scores; glad to hear it actually happened.

That clip never gets old.

That whole competition, with so many teams' failures, was very weird. But yes, Bab's Glare of Death was the moment everyone watching vividly remembers. As the saying goes, if looks could kill...her partner would've been a goner.

[proserpina65]

On 4/2/2025 at 3:42 PM, Is Everyone Gone said:

I liked their snake program, but that jazz montage this year was not it.

I think that was the last time I saw them do anything interesting.

[kitmerlot1213]

On 4/2/2025 at 12:01 PM, Natasha Fatale said:

I’ve been over Chock and Bates for years now (though I did like her when she was skating with Greg Zuerlein), but I do like Gilles and Poirier and Carreira and Ponomarenko. Guignard and Fabbri—no. Just no.

I can not STAND Guignard and Fabri--there's something desperately "try hard" about their programs and they just seem out of touch--and I was dying at how angry Gugnard looked when she realized Fear and Gibson's scores were better then then there's.  Damn funny indeed.

And I'm not trying to be hurtful but Gabriella Papadakis has absolutely no business being a commentator on NBC.  Her comments were completely inane and she seemed to be talking incessantly.  Do we need a separate ice dance commentator?  To me, Johnny and Terry were perfectly fine.

[Natasha Fatale]

I just spoke with a friend who was at Worlds with an all-access pass. She saw Babs pacing angrily after G/F’s scores came in.

She also saw Jason helping Amber practice a dance step during the gala rehearsal.

[annzeepark914]

8 hours ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

And I'm not trying to be hurtful but Gabriella Papadakis has absolutely no business being a commentator on NBC.  Her comments were completely inane and she seemed to be talking incessantly.  Do we need a separate ice dance commentator?  To me, Johnny and Terry were perfectly fine.

Thank you. I hope you let NBC Sports know about this. I couldn't understand what she said while the music was playing. Once it was quieter, I wasn't impressed with whatever she said. It was as though she was being very careful not to annoy US sports media. NBC really needs a *US ice dancer* to interpret what the skaters are achieving (or not) during their programs. Why was Ben Agosto sent off to do interviews with skaters? He's always been a good commentator. I don't understand why US broadcasters need to hire retired skaters from other countries when we have plenty of retired skaters available. You don't see other countries hiring retired US skaters (at least, AFAIK).

[Is Everyone Gone]

I think hiring Gabby is a sort of thing sports do a lot. People liked Gabby's skating, so they think it will translate to commentating. It's like the brief time NBC hired Magic Johnson to do color commentating and he was embarrassingly awful.

I miss Tanith's commentating, but I understand she's busy with coaching now.