Chaser January 16, 2015 Share January 16, 2015 She better initiate the next kiss. Its was really tender. Still glad it was cut though. I would have raged hardcore. IMO this is why they will never kill this ship, they will toss it around and dent it a bit. But they will never to anything to kill. Which is one of the reasons why I don't think they will ever go back to Oliver and Laurel (IMO that would undermine and damage Oliver completely for me). Doing a flash trend for this? Amazing. SO much buzz for the show. 6 Link to comment
Danny Franks January 16, 2015 Share January 16, 2015 (edited) I think it should be kept in mind that this didn't happen, in the world of the show. They filmed it, but decided against including it (rightly so, for all the reasons mentioned), and the scene in the episode plays without a time lapse, so this is a non-canon moment. Oliver was as undouchey as he could be, and still have the plan work.... Arguably at least, depending on whether you think Slade would have figured it out without the explicit, "I love you". I think it would be unfair to judge Oliver on something the writers ultimately decided not to use. It seems that, as recently as the end of season 2, they had some sort of control over their worst impulses. As first kisses go, this would have been a good one, in terms of execution and chemistry. Edited January 16, 2015 by Danny Franks 3 Link to comment
statsgirl January 16, 2015 Share January 16, 2015 (edited) Slade is not a subtle guy. IMO they needed the 'I love you'. And I agree, anything more than what they showed would have made Oliver a douche. side by side kisses http://felicties.tumblr.com/post/108290824552/2x23-deleted-kiss-3x01-kiss I love the comparison between the dark of 2x23 and the light of 3x01. Edited January 16, 2015 by statsgirl 2 Link to comment
Orion January 16, 2015 Share January 16, 2015 He pauses right before he kisses her and waits for her to kiss him. *sigh* I was going to rewatch Agent Carter tonight but I think I'll just watch this for a few hours. 12 Link to comment
SleepDeprived January 16, 2015 Share January 16, 2015 I am a grown woman. I should not have to take a moment to get away to have a silent shrieking session in the bathroom. Lord, THE CHEMISTRY between these two! From my many viewings of this kiss (it's not my fault that it keeps looping and I can't bring myself to close the tab), I don't know if that's just how the light hits but the left lens of Felicity's eyeglasses seemed to fog-up a little bit after they broke the kiss off. *fans self* I'm glad they cut this, though, for all the reasons already mentioned. But even though it's not canon, I'm extremely glad that MG followed through on his promise and released the cut scene. Thanks, Tumblr and Twitter for that flash trend! 13 Link to comment
SmallScreenDiva January 16, 2015 Share January 16, 2015 I am smiling a little too much (I can't help it) and it's freaking out my co-workers. The hand clench. The pause before the kiss. My heart is about to burst. I'm glad they cut out the scene, but HOT DAMN! OK, I want more kisses. Can I have more kisses, please? I can probably ignore crappy characters, motivations and plots if I get more of this ;) 12 Link to comment
Velocity23 January 16, 2015 Share January 16, 2015 I think i will just keep watching the kiss during the Buckle Apocalypse. 11 Link to comment
calliope1975 January 16, 2015 Share January 16, 2015 I think i will just keep watching the kiss during the Buckle Apocalypse. I'll just keep it on a loop during the next couple episodes. Yeah, that was nice. I'm going to need some more of that soon. Very soon. Link to comment
jay741982 January 16, 2015 Share January 16, 2015 I'M OKAY, I SWEAR. [OMG.] I said the same damn thing and I'm a hetero male in his 30's LOL I shouldn't be shipping them this hard but the Chemistry is insane!! 10 Link to comment
Guest January 16, 2015 Share January 16, 2015 (edited) DEAD. Omg, like others I'm glad they cut it but HOLY HELL the chemistry. I am swooning and I am too old to be swooning. So tender and hesitant and amazing. Seriously wonderful. Yeah, in the scheme of things it's better they didn't kiss but my eyeballs sure are happy to see it now. Edited January 17, 2015 by Guest Link to comment
jay741982 January 16, 2015 Share January 16, 2015 I am smiling a little too much (I can't help it) and it's freaking out my co-workers. The hand clench. The pause before the kiss. My heart is about to burst. I'm glad they cut out the scene, but HOT DAMN! OK, I want more kisses. Can I have more kisses, please? I can probably ignore crappy characters, motivations and plots if I get more of this ;) Oh yeah ill be okay with Laurel being BC if they would give us Plenty of Olicity and they are Endgame Link to comment
Velocity23 January 16, 2015 Share January 16, 2015 When journalist ask the fans the link to a deleted scene https://twitter.com/insidethetube/status/556234710045560833 1 Link to comment
Orion January 16, 2015 Share January 16, 2015 A brightened version of the kiss. You can see hand placement better, in case anyone needed it for reasons. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CbDYIBEruaI Link to comment
foreverevolving January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 A brightened version of the kiss. You can see hand placement better, in case anyone needed it for reasons. I think watching it again and again and again is reason enough :-) God i haven't smiled and been this happy about a kiss scene since Josh and Donna on TWW. 3 Link to comment
apinknightmare January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 I need someone to edit it so that we can't see the part where he puts the syringe in her pocket. It's a real shippy mood killer, haha. 1 Link to comment
Orion January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 Thank you ForeverEvolving for getting the video to embed! And one more. Someone edited the kiss scene into the full mansion scene. I may have a problem. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nRHffQzako&feature=youtu.be&a 6 Link to comment
apinknightmare January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 I don't think MG realizes what he's done here. He's going to have to be careful now, because he's going to have people asking him to release all kinds of stuff in exchange for trends and whatnot. 3 Link to comment
Guest January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 I hope we get a similar kiss like this eventually though - with Oliver in his Arrow outfit sans mask. The meaning behind that is too important because she's basically kissing Oliver as the Arrow, she's accepting of both, and I just NEED it okay? NEED. But I'm glad they cut this one. Link to comment
statsgirl January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 And one more. Someone edited the kiss scene into the full mansion scene. I may have a problem. Now I'm even more convinced they did the right thing to cut the kiss. The way they shot it, he was really taking advantage of her and her feelings for him. MG was right to think he would be hated after that. 2 Link to comment
jay741982 January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 I hope we get a similar kiss like this eventually though - with Oliver in his Arrow outfit sans mask. The meaning behind that is too important because she's basically kissing Oliver as the Arrow, she's accepting of both, and I just NEED it okay? NEED. But I'm glad they cut this one. I think the next time they kiss will be Initiated by Felicity, after saying I love you and I agree that he should have his Arrow outfit on with the mask on or hood Link to comment
catrox14 January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 Holy carp! I just saw the kiss. I love how Oliver said "I love you" with no uncertainty. That said, I think they made the right choice to not include the kiss and even edit the "I love you" to just "love you" yet still had the complete emotion. I bought it the first time as Oliver's true feelings. IMO the whole kiss scene would not have worked for everything else. I think the way the scene played out in the final cut was perfect for the plot line. But again...OH MY. And I actually prefer the Kiss in 3x1 more because of Oliver's desperation and the way he just grabs her face and kisses her. Damn, those two just set the screen afire. 2 Link to comment
tv echo January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 (edited) Regarding giving in and posting the deleted Olicity kiss... tvfangasmxing asked:Marc you are a man of your word! Ill give you that, and I agree with you the season 3 kiss was a lot better than this one. Anyway thank you for this. Last question though did you underestimate the arrow fandom when you made that promise? I knew we would get it done but i wasn't expecting it to happen a few hours after you said it haha. I think it’s fairly safe to say I woefully underestimated the fandom there. That was pretty damn impressive. Now the question is, how can we harness this power for good? Like, solve world hunger or get more people to buy the Arrow Season 2.5 comic. #kidding #notreallykidding http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/Jan. 16, 2015 Edited January 17, 2015 by tv echo Link to comment
NumberCruncher January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 Maybe it's just the cynic in me, but does it strike anyone else as suspicious timing that Guggenheim has suddenly become so very active on Tumblr as of late? I know he's had an account for a long time, but it's always been rather quiet. It's only been within the past week that he has become Tumblr's chatty new boyfriend. I can't help but wonder if it was largely due to a realization that he needed to do some major damage control with the fanbase since that place is known to show heavy biases towards certain fan groups who have become thoroughly enraged over the direction of the next 3 or 4 episodes. Is he really that transparent or am I just over-analyzing? 6 Link to comment
tv echo January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 (edited) This is kinda interesting - MG answers questions about using the names "Laurel" and "Felicity" and about naming the fern (I'm dropping the double quotes, and just bolded the questions)... hawrkey asked:Hello Marc. I always wondered, why choose to call Dinah Laurel only ''Laurel'' in the series, when the original name is Dinah? It was a choice of production? It would be so nice if it was just DINAH and not Laurel. It was a production choice. Dinah is a very anachronistic-sounding name and we wanted “Laurel” to be younger, cooler. satanichorse asked:Had you known how much the character of Felicity would blow up, would you have rather given her an original name than a mere reference to the comics? I dunno. I can’t imagine her being anything other than “Felicity” now. elawee asked:Does the fern have a name? I'd like to think Felicity, the person who refers to the team as "Team Arrow", surely would've given it a name. I've seen Yao Fern and Fernlicity being tossed around. I’ve seen Yao Fern and that just cracks me up. http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/Jan. 15-16, 2015 Edited January 17, 2015 by tv echo Link to comment
Morrigan2575 January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 Nope, IMO it's damage control/distraction post TCA debacle. I'm sure it's also another way to push the upcoming episodes 5 Link to comment
NumberCruncher January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 Nope, IMO it's damage control/distraction post TCA debacle. I'm sure it's also another way to push the upcoming episodes LOL, I didn't even think of the TCA thing when I wrote my post, but that makes sense too. He's definitely pulling out all the stops with it as he's been camped on there for days now but it's looking like it just might work given how much people over there are bowing at his feet. Oh fickle fandom... Link to comment
Guest January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 It's like Olivia Pope went all Scandal on his ass and MG is 'fixing' things on tumblr, and by fixing I mean he's creating buzz where there was none. Let's be honest, Laurel's arc as BC is not exactly a positive thing and a lot of people were talking about they weren't going to be watching the next 3/4 episodes. They needed to fix that and they needed people talking about the show. He's succeeded. Well played, MG. Well played. Link to comment
SmallScreenDiva January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 Oh, totally. But judging from the questions and what gets reblogged, the fandom isn't being swayed too much. Sure it's exploded with the release of this scene, but I don't think anyone is really forgetting what's coming. I'm actually laughing that some of the reblogs have comments attached about fans needing this because of the debacle they're expecting just ahead. 9 Link to comment
jay741982 January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 I don't think she deserves it but I can live with Laurel being BC if Olicity sails on and is Endgame. Link to comment
Tangerine January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 I'm glad they cut the kiss from the show because I think I might actually be dead. 2 Link to comment
statsgirl January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 If nothing else, this served to show MG that the part of the fandom that supports Olicity is not just a few loud fanatics. You want an audience, Mark? Here's a big one. 13 Link to comment
dtissagirl January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 Yeah, this is definitely damage control. And getting the F/O fans on his side is important. The misguided TCA panel ended up not creating as much buzz as they thought it would, and I wonder also if besides forever trying to make Laurel happen, they suddenly realized people might just not watch Arrow without Oliver. 10 Link to comment
tv echo January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 (edited) thefourcolormonkey asked:I know Arrow loves its symbolism. Did it really not occur to anyone behind the scenes throughout the entire writing and production process for 3x01 that maybe going so far as to have a character fall onto a dumpster and land dead next to bags of garbage was a tad tasteless? To say nothing of how it was later specified that her body was then put into a night club freezer when we all know you guys are well aware of the meaning refrigerators have when it comes to dead female characters. The dumpster was purely to — no joke — break the fall so that Sara didn’t just splat on the ground. I’ll take the hit on the night club freezer, however. It felt morbid to just keep her body to decompose in the lair. They’d refrigerate it like you would at any morgue. The “fridging female characters” thing didn’t occur to me at the time. http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/ Edited January 17, 2015 by tv echo 1 Link to comment
statsgirl January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 So. Much. Damage. Control. The TCA panel generated a lot of buzz, just not the kind they were hoping for. 7 Link to comment
NumberCruncher January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 (edited) Yeah, this is definitely damage control. And getting the F/O fans on his side is important. The misguided TCA panel ended up not creating as much buzz as they thought it would, and I wonder also if besides forever trying to make Laurel happen, they suddenly realized people might just not watch Arrow without Oliver. Definitely that. I'm still amazed that they didn't expect the level of backlash they received when they killed Oliver and I'm also baffled that they couldn't predict fans would complain about watching an Arrow-less "Arrow" back when the whole story arc was conceived in the first place. Duh! Edited January 17, 2015 by NumberCruncher 6 Link to comment
catrox14 January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 Definitely that. I'm still amazed that they didn't expect the level of backlash they received when they killed Oliver and I'm also baffled that they couldn't predict fans would complain about watching an Arrow-less "Arrow" back when the whole story arc was conceived in the first place. Duh! Sinceriously. I won't watch without Oliver Queen. The. End. 7 Link to comment
foreverevolving January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 (edited) Thank you ForeverEvolving for getting the video to embed! And one more. Someone edited the kiss scene into the full mansion scene. I may have a problem. Oh sweet goddess, someone heard my post and made me happy!! I have to admit that was edited and posted faster then i thought. Also not an intentional embed! Are you having issues posting videos, were you able to do it before or is this your first time trying? Edited January 17, 2015 by foreverevolving 2 Link to comment
Morrigan2575 January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 MGs answer to the Sara question honestly scares me. How did it not not cross anyone's mind that the fans might regard it as trashing and fridging a character? There wasn't a single person in the entire process that caught it? It does kind of highlight the inherent misogyny involved with some of their decisions, like the TCA panel. 18 Link to comment
apinknightmare January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 MGs answer to the Sara question honestly scares me. How did it not not cross anyone's mind that the fans might regard it as trashing and fridging a character? There wasn't a single person in the entire process that caught it? It does kind of highlight the inherent misogyny involved with some of their decisions, like the TCA panel. He tweeted a picture over the summer of some planning session and in a sausage fest of what looked to be about 20-ish men, I only spotted one woman. So, this really doesn't surprise me at all. Not saying that all men are misogynistic and that the woman would be solely responsible for picking that up, but...yeah. 9 Link to comment
Morrigan2575 January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 He tweeted a picture over the summer of some planning session and in a sausage fest of what looked to be about 20-ish men, I only spotted one woman. So, this really doesn't surprise me at all. Not saying that all men are misogynistic and that the woman would be solely responsible for picking that up, but...yeah.I remember that picture of the writers room and I know someone questioned MG about it, I think he said there were 2 or 3 women in the picture. But yeah, your point stands... Link to comment
Orion January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 (edited) I'm trying very hard not to scream BS about that fridging comment. I just honestly can't believe in a room full of men, some of which have been on panels that discussed the Fridging of female characters on them, didn't catch that. Honestly, if there was no one who went, "You know what guys maybe drop Sara on a car instead of a dumpster that might send a bad message on a network known for it's female audience." or "Wait, you want to put Sara where? No, no. We are not doing that" that is a huge problem. I'm more likely to believe that someone thought it would be a fridging easter egg and the audience would marvel that they managed to make a commentary on that trope and then it backfired with a pissed off fandom. I don't give the EPs a lot of credit but I just don't think even they are that tone deaf. Either way, Hey fellas run scripts by people with girl parts - truck them in if you have to. Edited January 17, 2015 by Orion 11 Link to comment
statsgirl January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 I'm more likely to believe that someone thought it would be a fridging easter egg and the audience would marvel that they managed to make a commentary on that trope and then it backfired with a pissed off fandom. That makes more sense than MG's version. Yeah, there is a substantial amount of mysogyny there. They need to hire some women who aren't Wendy Mericle and Beth Schwartz. An Oliver-less Arrow would have been a tough sell at any rate but I think they would have had a better chance of selling it as 'How will Team Arrow (Diggle, Felicity and Roy) react? Will Thea find out about Oliver and how Malcolm set him up, and what will she do?' Those are the characters (along with the fridged Sara and Moira) that the audience has bonded to. Instead they promoted Laurel becoming the Black Canary, Ray getting his ATOM suit and Ra's al Ghul, the comic book stuff. Laurel is the most divisive character on the show and a lot of people either haven't accepted Ray or don't really care, ditto Ra's. They did take CH to the panel but he was completely overshadowed and not asked a single question. I don't even think he's given an interview. Most of the TV audience either doesn't come from the comic books or is willing to give up on the comic book stories in exchange for a well-written TV show. I'm curious to see if they can learn. 2 Link to comment
SonofaBiscuit January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 (edited) Super late to the discussion as always. I thought that the kiss was sweet, but I prefer the more aggressive desperate type of kissing (which would not have been appropriate here). I'm glad they didn't use it, though, because after finding out it was all a trick, there probably would have been a fist-sized hole in my wall. OK, I'm being dramatic here, but you get the point. Also, if Guggenheim's Tumblr Q&A is damage control, do you guys think it is working? Because he kind of succeeded in turning me off episode 12 when I was planning on watching it. Edited January 17, 2015 by SonofaBiscuit 1 Link to comment
SmallScreenDiva January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 MGs answer to the Sara question honestly scares me. How did it not not cross anyone's mind that the fans might regard it as trashing and fridging a character? There wasn't a single person in the entire process that caught it? It does kind of highlight the inherent misogyny involved with some of their decisions, like the TCA panel. These are the same people who thought having the lead male character bang the sister of the female lead would make for epic romance. I still can't believe no one during the entire development process for the pilot raised a hand and said, "Uhm, excuse me?" So yeah, a literal fridging of a female character would definitely escape their notice. 10 Link to comment
dtissagirl January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 Also, if Guggenheim's Tumblr Q&A is damage control, do you guys think it is working? Because he kind of succeeded in turning me off episode 12 when I was planning on watching it. I think he's succeeding amongst the Tumblr gen pop, because it's a specific place that gets off on this kind of engagement from TPTB. No idea if it's reaching beyond that, though. Probably not? I mean, the kiss will end up picked up by journos [i've only seen one in my Twitter timeline talking about it, but everyone's still at TCAs], but Tumblr is kind of like Fight Club sometimes. 1 Link to comment
apinknightmare January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 These are the same people who thought having the lead male character bang the sister of the female lead would make for epic romance. I still can't believe no one during the entire development process for the pilot raised a hand and said, "Uhm, excuse me?" So yeah, a literal fridging of a female character would definitely escape their notice. He's right in that it is common sense for them to put the body in the freezer since Laurel just *had* to drag Sara's corpse from the scene of the crime, and maybe if this show didn't have such a terrible history with their treatment of women and using their deaths to propel other people's storylines, it wouldn't have been such a questionable oversight. 4 Link to comment
wonderwall January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 My question is, why would the writers want that dumpster there to 'break her fall'? I mean she was gonna die anyways so that didn't make sense to me. I think the fridge thing would've been (slightly) better received if Sara didn't fall on a dumpster (which could've easily been a car or whatever) Link to comment
catrox14 January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 The TCA panel was a shortsighted, ill-conceived panel but I will say that I disagree with the assertions of misogyny on the writing and production team. To me that's a very heavy charge implying that writers and showrunners actually hate women for being women. I think it's fair to think there is some definite blinders on about how those particular scenes played out and I can believe that a male writer might not subscribe to or even think about the fridging trope but I just have a hard time leveling the misogyny charge. Stupid, short-sighted, possibly sexist yes but misogyny....man that's a tough one for me to believe given the presence of Felicity, Moira, Thea , Helena, McKenna, Nyssa, Sara, Lyla, Cupid, Laurel, Iris and Caitlin in the Flash. Sara' s death was ugly and stupid and awful and IMO unnecessary. Moira's death was shocking and upsetting. I realize the NUMBER of women does not mitigate problematic writing BUT IMO if the writers were truly misogynistic, not one woman in the show would be strong or brave or a fully realized character in her own right and I do think most of the women in the show are fairly well drawn complete characters...even Laurel if I don't like what she does I don't think her poor characterization is because the writers and showrunners are misogynists. MV here I realize. 4 Link to comment
Sakura12 January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 I asked a question about what Gail Simone thinks of Sara and I guess it kind of got answered by her retweeting this from a fan. As for damage control didn't they do the same thing last season when the Laurel episodes were coming up. Ep 14 is our part of our Laurel episodes. Then the backlash came and it was suddenly not about Laurel/Lance Family it's about Felicity. They apparently keep forgetting that Laurel is not liked that much. Or they think whatever they do to fix her is going to work when it never really does. I've said it before, people will probably start to accept Laurel because they have no choice in the matter. But that is still not the same as liking her character and wanting her to stick around. 2 Link to comment
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