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Social Media and Behind the Scenes: AKA Everything Else Not "News and Media"

Zalyn

By Zalyn
in Arrow

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LeighAn

LeighAn

The fact is he can make all the jokes he wants about Olicity shippers wanting entire episodes dedicated to Olicity hijinks and how that "kills drama" but anyone who follows spoilers knows what a crock of bs that actually is based on an upcoming episode. So I'm not going to fret over Marc being Marc *shrug*

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dtissagirl
dtissagirl

What bugs me is the implication that if you are not patient, you're watching it wrong. Naw, son. You don't get to tell me how I watch TV. I'm an actual pro at doing it.

WindofChange
WindofChange

Oh wow, Emily. I'm impressed because this is really brave and I'm really proud that she said this in such an eloquent way.

dtissagirl
dtissagirl

Ha. Reading those stage directions, and realizing how EBR went the opposite way [curious and skeptic rather than faint by hot guy] makes me understand 100% how fucking lost they were at that time, and

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tangerine95

tangerine95

(edited)

Tbh I think MG wishes olicity fans were asking him to do a whole episode of olicity doing normal things because that would be easier to deal with, dissmis or make fun of than the actual stuff they ask on his sm from what I've seen which is all about the very obvious flaws in the writting. 

Plus is he aware they literally promoted season 4 on domestic olicity? No one expects 45mins of olicity on a date or something, fans were pretty happy with how they dealt with olicity as a couple in 4A before the drama.

Edited by tangerine95
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Guest

Guest

I just dislike the notion that just because I ship Olicity I somehow want marriage and babies and to watch them pick out furniture at Ikea. UM NO. I want them to do exactly what they usually do - fight crime to help their city - but I want them to be together. And maybe for Oliver to stick his tongue in Felicity's mouth a couple of times. That's it. 

IT'S NOT THAT DIFFICULT, MARCUS. 

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thegirlsleuth

thegirlsleuth

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I can't tell if Guggenheim despises Olicity fans or postures that way so that he's liked by the cool kids. His PR strategy all season seems to be to privately spoil positive comments and details that are dispersed via social media while at the same time painting Olicity fans as entitled girls who don't understand what the show is about and only care about romance to the exclusion of everything else. You know what I want?  I want an Entertainment Weekly article in which Guggenheim talks about how much Oliver's relationship with Felicity has helped him grow as both a crimefighting partner and romantic partner.  I want a write up in TV Guide in which there is a discussion about how lucky they were to find the magical combo, preferably with an interview with EBR.   I want an acknowledgement in TV Line that the baby mama drama and breakup was the worst writing they've ever done, and that writing against Oliver and Felicity's relationship damages the show and never works.

Guggenheim can go fuck himself.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

7 hours ago, bijoux said:

Am I seeing things or are more of her roots showing than usual during the filming?

Reminds me of when I grew out my hair (roots) to give it a break after frying it from a too intensive lightening episode.  (I'm currently attempting to pretend I've jumped on the hombre trend) Last year's pink hair had to be rough on the follicles.  It would also explain why she gives it a break from the flat iron.    

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LeighAn

LeighAn

3 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

MG's idea of humor is being a dick apparently. I honestly don't care what he says as long as Oliver keeps packing Felicity's lunches and gifts her ferns and massages her back.

 

Thankyouverymuch.

Exactly he can play up to look cool in front of his friends but people following spoilers knows what's coming up. It's sweet how much he wants to be liked by the cool kids. 

Also I love how Damian Holbrook is still subtly salty on Olicity fans/Olicity for the whole Susan vs Felicity/Thea thing. Fragile egoes are still fragile.

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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

I wish these guys understood shipping fandom culture better, because I'm sure people do tweet these kinds of "domestic" requests at him. And they're (mostly) jokes. No one actually expects the show to be like that. Asking to see a couple doing dumb domestic shit should just auto-translate for writers to read: "I'm invested in this couple and their happiness." That's the extent of its meaning. And it actually ISN'T bad drama to show those kinds of scenes sometimes, Marc!

Honestly, I can't decide whether he's being disingenuous when he says this kind of thing (like @tangerine95 said above) or if he is just this out of touch.

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MaisyDaisy

MaisyDaisy

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It's stupid. He looks like an uber condasending dick. More of the mysoginistic bullshit of trying to paint 'fangirls' or 'shippers' as vapid silly shallow girls. He is straight up playing to the stereotype of male comic fans as 'gatekeepers' of fandom, playing up that myth that these 'girly-shallow-shippers' are to be derided, and are not the 'real fans' because they don't really 'understand' the show.

As a showrunner for a show that not only has increasingly poor ratings, and a departing female audience, but also has a reputation for it's poor treatment of female characters, this makes him look tone deaf.

It also makes me reassess those claims that female directors don't want to work on the show because it's apparently a massive boys club sausage fest. 

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Midnight Lullaby

Midnight Lullaby

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He always singles out shippers with his "jokes" then gets offended when people call him sexist. I'll never understand why men feel the need to bring down what women, especially young girls, like but honestly it's kind of pathetic. I don't want Oliver and Felicity to have kids but still I'd say it's debatable if such a thing would be more boring that some of the stuff they have written so far. There was no domestic Olicity in 4B and season 5 yet it seems to me he has managed to lose viewers just fine. Maybe that's what bothers him, who knows.

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MaisyDaisy

MaisyDaisy

I think it's very telling when men affiliated with the show either ignore or seek to soothe out right hate from male fans (looking at MG, SA and Bam), but get so defensive or passive aggressive towards female fans politely but assertively making points that are often backed up by cited canon. 

Its kind of amusing that guys that seem like alpha bros are often more threatened by an intelligent woman than by outright aggressive men.

i saw a comment on a recent article (I think it was in the TV line one about Felicity's mask) stating that one of Felicity's 'crimes' was that she took Oliver's 'manhood'. JFC, the male centric comic fandom has some fragile masculinity if they are worried about woman stealing manhood.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)
10 hours ago, thegirlsleuth said:

I can't tell if Guggenheim despises Olicity fans or postures that way so that he's liked by the cool kids. His PR strategy all season seems to be to privately spoil positive comments and details that are dispersed via social media while at the same time painting Olicity fans as entitled girls who don't understand what the show is about and only care about romance to the exclusion of everything else. You know what I want?  I want an Entertainment Weekly article in which Guggenheim talks about how much Oliver's relationship with Felicity has helped him grow as both a crimefighting partner and romantic partner.  I want a write up in TV Guide in which there is a discussion about how lucky they were to find the magical combo, preferably with an interview with EBR.   I want an acknowledgement in TV Line that the baby mama drama and breakup was the worst writing they've ever done, and that writing against Oliver and Felicity's relationship damages the show and never works.

Guggenheim can go fuck himself.

As has been said before, it's a double standard. It's perfectly okay to talk about how Oliver's relationship with Diggle has helped him grow both as a crimefighting partner and 'brotherly' friend.  But if you try to do the same with Olicity, it immediately gets belittled.

Edited by tv echo
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kismet

kismet

11 hours ago, MaisyDaisy said:

It's stupid. He looks like an uber condasending dick. More of the mysoginistic bullshit of trying to paint 'fangirls' or 'shippers' as vapid silly shallow girls. He is straight up playing to the stereotype of male comic fans as 'gatekeepers' of fandom, playing up that myth that these 'girly-shallow-shippers' are to be derided, and are not the 'real fans' because they don't really 'understand' the show.

As a showrunner for a show that not only has increasingly poor ratings, and a departing female audience, but also has a reputation for it's poor treatment of female characters, this makes him look tone deaf.

It also makes me reassess those claims that female directors don't want to work on the show because it's apparently a massive boys club sausage fest. 

Most of your post as well as others thru the years and my own educated analysis makes me believe that MG truly does not understand the show or its fans. And that is simultaneously disappointing and worrisome.

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theOAfc

theOAfc

(edited)

This whole attitude of him and others on the show screams insecurity. Seeking male validation and putting male opinions above female ones even if its coming from obsessed, extremely biased, hatefull man children while dismissing well thought criticism from female fans who will be easily labeled as silly shippers is partly why his show is like this tbh. I honestly think he will pay more attention to a fanboy that will tell him Oliver not wearing a goatee ruins the show than to a fangirl that will tell him the show's lack of consistency when it comes to characterization is harming it.

Maybe he simply cant comprehend actual tv criticism while its easier to value people that worship comics? Maybe he only understands simple worded rants like people screaming "kill olicity"  or "bring back olicity" at his mentions? Maybe he is simply sharing sexist ideas that he doesnt even acknowledge as sexism?  Maybe all of the above? Who knows. What i see is he is either ignoring  actual criticism and deliberately labels it as shippers demanding a ship because he knows his writing sucks but wont admit or he really doesnt get whats wrong with his show and he doesnt bother to pay real attention to the valid criticism especially when its easier to just listen to extreme opinions like "olicity kills the show" ,"you let tumblr fangirls ruin Arrow" "real green arrow fans dont want silly romance". But personally i just think he seeks validation from comic purists, most being men.

And its not just his show. Look at the flash. I think its even worse there,from the 1.5 seasons i watched before i dropped it i felt like women dont even have a voice there. S5 of arrow and its treatment towards Thea and Felicity,the only two female regulars, reminds me a lot of the flash treatment towards its female characters. Yikes.

Edited by theOAfc
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

20 hours ago, kismet said:

Most of your post as well as others thru the years and my own educated analysis makes me believe that MG truly does not understand the show or its fans. And that is simultaneously disappointing and worrisome.

And yet his wife was half of the creative team behind Agent Carter.  Can we have her come audit his show for a while?  It might not be great for his marriage but could do wonders for us viewers.  

20 hours ago, theOAfc said:

This whole attitude of him and others on the show screams insecurity. Seeking male validation and putting male opinions above female ones even if its coming from obsessed, extremely biased, hatefull man children while dismissing well thought criticism from female fans who will be easily labeled as silly shippers is partly why his show is like this tbh. I honestly think he will pay more attention to a fanboy that will tell him Oliver not wearing a goatee ruins the show than to a fangirl that will tell him the show's lack of consistency when it comes to characterization is harming it.

Maybe he simply cant comprehend actual tv criticism while its easier to value people that worship comics? Maybe he only understands simple worded rants like people screaming "kill olicity"  or "bring back olicity" at his mentions? Maybe he is simply sharing sexist ideas that he doesnt even acknowledge as sexism?  Maybe all of the above? Who knows. What i see is he is either ignoring  actual criticism and deliberately labels it as shippers demanding a ship because he knows his writing sucks but wont admit or he really doesnt get whats wrong with his show and he doesnt bother to pay real attention to the valid criticism especially when its easier to just listen to extreme opinions like "olicity kills the show" ,"you let tumblr fangirls ruin Arrow" "real green arrow fans dont want silly romance". But personally i just think he seeks validation from comic purists, most being men.

And its not just his show. Look at the flash. I think its even worse there,from the 1.5 seasons i watched before i dropped it i felt like women dont even have a voice there. S5 of arrow and its treatment towards Thea and Felicity,the only two female regulars, reminds me a lot of the flash treatment towards its female characters. Yikes.

Yeah, compared to The Flash, Arrow looked good in its treatment of female characters and that was after the sister swapping and Sara getting dropped on a dumpster.  The Flash is still pretty awful (this season Jessie Quick -the Flash of her home world-  supposedly happily sat out a round of crime fighting to admire someone else's engagement ring) but Arrow has lost so many of its female characters between season four and five that it's like they forgot how to write women.  I think the only reason Felicity is even half as well written as she (and it's far from perfect) is because of the constant scrutiny on the character.  They know people will complain LOUDLY if they muck up.  

10 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Is it me or does Stephen have a raging mancrush on Josh?

Why wouldn't he?  Think of all the mutual praise they've shared for their work together this season.  And really, SA did probably some of the best work of his life emoting opposite of him as he was tortured.  It's pure bonus if he actually likes the guy, lol. 

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catrox14

catrox14

8 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Why wouldn't he?  Think of all the mutual praise they've shared for their work together this season.  And really, SA did probably some of the best work of his life emoting opposite of him as he was tortured.  It's pure bonus if he actually likes the guy, lol. 

My post wasn't a snarky criticism of Steohen. It was me genuinely wondering .Sorry if I offended.

BkWurm1

BkWurm1

8 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

My post wasn't a snarky criticism of Steohen. It was me genuinely wondering .Sorry if I offended.

I'm even more sorry that my post came off as if I was offended.  I wasn't trying to project that. :(  I was just agreeing and adding to what you were saying.  I should have included emojis.  Tone is so subjective otherwise.  I'm really sorry for making you think that.  

kismet

kismet

5 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Why wouldn't he?  Think of all the mutual praise they've shared for their work together this season.  And really, SA did probably some of the best work of his life emoting opposite of him as he was tortured.  It's pure bonus if he actually likes the guy, lol. 

Seriously why not??? SA hasn't been given this opportunity to act with a talented male actor since s2. SA may be flat, robotic & repetitive for most of s5, but not when he shares scenes with JS. They kept him far from BR in s3. Killed of his other bromances (Tommy, Slade & even Roy). S4 saw no quality male additions we had random Tebow guy & flat Curtis. And they decided to split up/keep apart Dig & OQ for most of s4 & s5, thus losing their amazing chemistry. Even quality new female actors/roles have been kept from him since s3. I mean Poppy, Evelyn & Susan were like big doses of tranquilizers for the show. Tatsu was that last decent new female and that was s3. SA/OQ finally is permitted in story to interact with another person of substance with quality casting & semi-decent plotting outside of OTA since early on in the season - a man crush was bound to happen. Plus JS has been nailing it throughout the season. Sadly, he's the only new actor since s3 that I'm actually invested in keeping and he is likely guaranteed to be the one to go. 

Also, on a more cynical/business note - SA may also be building a relationship with JS for future projects or HVFFs.

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HighHopes

HighHopes

(edited)
27 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

Ask! She's responding to the comments but apparently needs permission (?) to post a complete list. 

I think she needs permission to post photos of EBR and the "looks" for each episode. She did reply to one comment that when she got back to the trailer she would put a list together though! 

Edited by HighHopes
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