Narcos - General Discussion

[benteen]

Isn't that a spoiler for a future episode?

[numbnut]

2 hours ago, benteen said:

Isn't that a spoiler for a future episode?

Whoops! I think you're right. Apologies.

[numbnut]

Is it me, or was that a total cheat when they showed the cab-driving mullet dude "covertly" making the call from Pablo's house before the ambush? If he's in on it, why was he looking uneasy? Too bad they got rid of Carrillo so fast. His crazy made the show more interesting.

[jonesingjay]

RIP Carrillo. He was a hot piece of psychopathic ass. 

[Constantinople]

They say it isn't the fall that kills you, but the sudden change in direction.

[Constantinople]

23 hours ago, snowwhyte said:

Well, that was depressing. I spent most of the series just hoping that Maritza would make it through. For her to go out like that made me very angry. You know bad things are going to happen in Narcos and whenever they introduce a nice, semi-innocent character it's just a question of waiting to see what horrible thing will happen to them and when.

As a "friend", Limon really lived up to his nickname.

[thuganomics85]

Holy shit, I totally forgot about how stone-cold Carrillo is.  It's so nuts, because on one hand, I want to be "Yay, someone who even scares Pablo is back!"  But then he does things like toss prisoners off planes and executes a teenage spotter in front of the other kids to make a point, and then I don't know what to think.  I'm guessing my reaction was pretty much what both Steve and Javier's reactions were.  It has to scare both of them knowing what lines they are crossing to bring down Pablo.

At least Pablo's big plan to counter it is simply have the kid be interviewed.  With Pablo, I really thought he was going to something horrid, like have the kid try and take out Carrillo.  This is the same guy who convinced a young man to blow himself up on a plane.

Interesting strategy of having Judy reveal the locations of her factories to the police, and that's how they get a bunch of Pablo's men.  The return of Pacho and the other cartel is certainly shaking things up.

[itsadryheat]

Anyone notice the real Murphy and Pena cameo in the Miami bar scene, when Pena found out Pablo was killed? Nice touch!  Been researching like a maniac since watching season 1. This is the wildest tv ride I've ever been on. Thought Season 1 was too much..until I watched Season 2.

[itsadryheat]

Also, I liked the ending of the mistress tv chic in the series,  much better than what really went down with her.

[itsadryheat]

I was physically shaken when Limon shot Maritza, didn't think he'd do it. Immediately closed my eyes waiting for him to shoot the baby. Appreciate not having to see that and hope it didn't.

[itsadryheat]

Absolutely nothing but contempt for both Mom Pablo and Wife Pablo. 

[larapu2000]

Not to nitpick, but there was a detail from the day of  Pablo's death that was incorrect.   He actually ate spaghetti for breakfast,  and I remember that clearly from the books,  because I thought it was weird,  that it sounded delicious,  and that it made me hungry for spaghetti.  

I so so so hope Pena is back in action in the new season,  I don't even care if it's not true, I just love Pedro Pascal that much.  

I felt sorry for the children,  but not Tata.  I have no patience or sympathy  for women who enjoy the life of high living and luxury bought with the blood and broken families of others.  

[paramitch]

On 8/31/2015 at 10:18 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Of course, this episode would kick off with Javier and Elisa already in bed together.  Oh, Javier.  This isn't healthy, man.  I loved that Steve already seemed to figure it out by the first scene.  Of course, now dick military guy and Jackass CIA Richard T. Jones seemed to have figured out Connie helped Elisa, so I'm sure that's going to cause some ruckus.

This show is really doing a good job at making me respect everyone who is trying to go after Pablo, especially the various politicians and non-corruptible cops.  The entire deck is stacked against them, and their lives and even their families' lives are always in danger, but they are the ones who see what Pablo is, and just can't stand by.  Even if it ends in their deaths, it's good to see some who want to stop him.

I loved that revelation, though. It just cut to the chase without being coy. It doesn't hurt that I think Pedro Pascal is the hottest thing ever. Sheesh.

I utterly agree with you on the show's protagonists. This show has opened my eyes to a culture, a time, and a struggle I never really considered before in much detail, and I think it's amazing. it's heartbreaking to watch the good guys from within the country as well as aided by the U.S., to try to maintain order, capture thieves, murderers, traffickers, etc., against absolutely disgusting and impossible odds.

What grosses me out the most here is how corrupted everyone is. This isn't a matter of cops against bad guys. It's a matter of cops against bad guys while knowing that they control and pay everyone else! That they have unlimited funds. That they control the citizens, the poor, the rich, the vast majority of the other cops, the politicians, the citizens, etc. It's staggering.

On 9/11/2015 at 10:02 AM, Avaleigh said:

Colombian politics are a nasty business. Who gets involved in that shit, it's so thankless. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. 

It's fascinating. I admire and respect them but I'm also so damned worried for them that I almost want them to take the money because they're the good guys so I feel like they deserve it. 

I loved, loved, loved the phone call scene between Escobar and that incorruptible Colonel (I don't have everyone's name yet) because it was the first time I've seen Escobar seem like he's legitimately scared. His taunting sounded more childish than scary and he's at a loss when he's confronted with someone who isn't swayed by money and can handle himself with the proverbial sword. It's pretty awesome. But hell, I don't want the Colonel's family to get killed just so that he can show Escobar what an incorruptible bad ass he is.

Another great scene was the Colonel telling his superior and some other guy that he, quite frankly, has no idea whether they're on the take or not. 

When he said he needed men who can't be corrupted I'm just thinking, yeah, okay great, where do you find a big supply of that especially when we've established how difficult it is for most people to not be swayed to be on Escobar's side. The only thing I can think is that they'd have to select people who have directly suffered at the hands of Escobar and even then that could be a slippery slope because if these people have seen first hand the worst of what he can do then some of them will already want to do practically anything to keep from getting involved because they've seen for themselves how horribly that can shake out. 

I find this show to be incredibly fascinating and complex and ended up watching three episodes in a row last night. 

I feel exactly the same way. I've been riveted by the series and think all of these aspects -- plus the great writing, acting and superb production values. I also feel like I've learned something. Every episode sends me diving into Wikipedia and Lexis Nexis.

On 9/12/2015 at 8:54 PM, Human said:

We're talking about a criminal who was a self-centered narcissist and thought the world owed him.  He had a Messiah complex.  He was idolized in the streets.  He really had no reason to think that he couldn't be in politics since he had never before been confronted about his criminal enterprise.  He thought himself above everyone else.  This sort of personality isn't unusual.  Netflix isn't 'portraying' him a certain way just because he was ruthless.  He was so ruthless because he was such a narcissist who lacked empathy.  

That's what's so terrifying. The saying that absolute power corrupts absolutely is spot-on for Escobar. He ran bigger and bigger things, wanted to run the country for his own amusement, and I'm sure would have been happy to go further.

On 9/12/2015 at 9:02 PM, Maysie said:

Yes, I believe he did. It's a matter of believing your own press - in his case as the modern day Robin Hood of Columbia. Don't forget the people loved him before they hated him because he essentially bought them off with housing and such. Consider that modern day terrorist organizations do the same thing in the middle east, such as Hezbollah. It's part of a strategy of buying support.

The irony is that he gave to the poor with one hand while gutting them with the other, and they never seemed to get it. But then again, some could argue that it's happening in America right now with the extreme right, so... it's complicated.

On 10/4/2015 at 3:19 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

If Pablo were a fictional character, his sense of entitlement and victimhood would almost be funny but knowing that he's a real person who actually felt like he was the one who was so put upon is scary and sad. How dare anyone try to interfere with his cocaine business? And it's not like that Bon Jovi skit from SNL ("just two guys from Jersey with a dream") - he was making $60 million A DAY. He had more money than he could possibly spend as a result of the drug trade, yet he's acting like he was the victim when he was the one who was bullying everyone and murdering people left and right.

I love the way the show escalates. I found Pablo mildly interesting in the early episodes, if scary in a commonplace way. But as the show has gone on, he has grown absolutely terrifying, while my rooting for the law enforcement guys (against impossible odds) has grown exponentially.

Great show. I wish more people were watching and commenting.

Edited September 6, 2016 by paramitch
typos

[Constantinople]

Pablo Escobar in a Benetton rugby shirt.

I think I've seen it all.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Constantinople
Because Pablo's last name is Escobar not Escobr

[itsadryheat]

While watching I thought all of what we were seeing was fact. While researching between season 1 and 2, it appears there may have been some poetic license taken, ex. Ms. Valeria. I think I also read that Gatcha from S1 blew himself up with a grenade vs being mowed down with his son from a helicopter.

Excellent series, fascinating story, superb acting. There was so much going on with the story, trying to follow and read subtitles, I may have to revisit the series in the future.

Post research had some interesting facts. Watch the Netflix show about Pablo done by his son. Apparently Little Miss Tata did spend some time in jail in Argentina. Too bad Pablo's mother wasn't with her.

[Rapunzel]

On ‎9‎/‎3‎/‎2016 at 4:13 PM, pivot said:

Now, I hope that ending means they are planning on doing season 3 on getting the Cali cartel. 

Yeah, real life Mama Escabor clearly was delusional. 

Now, I'd love to know what ended up happening with Tata and the kids but don't really want to google for fear I'll find out what happens with the Cali cartel. Even though I knew Pablo died at the hands of the government, I didn't know a lot of the details which is what made this show so interesting.

For those who want to know a little about what happened with Pablo's family, I'll put some info in Spoiler tags. It does not contain any mention of the Cali Cartel.

Spoiler

The family made it out of the Country to Argentina (though I think they went somewhere in Africa first). The family fears ever returning to Colombia because of all the death threats they received, particularly from the families of Escobar's numerous victims. 

Pablo Jr. changed his name to Sebastián Marroquin, got a degree in architecture and is married with children. He also runs a clothing line that features his father's likeness, and supposedly part of any profits from any of his business ventures tied to his father will go the families of his father's victims.

He made a documentary in 2009, and he did go back to Colombia for it,  that shows him meeting with some of the family members of his father's victims, and has him speaking at length with one young man in particular who is roughly the same age as Pablo Jr. (Sebastian). Escobar murdered his father. The two talk at length and the victim seems to forgive Pablo Jr - they are even shown hugging when they part ways, if I remember correctly. It also shows interviews of other victims' family members without Pablo Jr. involved and gets their reactions to various news clippings and home videos, etc.

One thing they left out of Narcos is that Pablo Jr. called a radio station right after his father was murdered and threated revenge and to kill all those involved in the death of his father. He was just a kid at the time, and he addresses this in the documentary saying that it was a stupid thing to do and that he hopes people can forgive him for doing it, but he didn't really know any better. He also talks about how Escobar was a good father, and that, growing up, they didn't really think their lifestyle was strange or anything as it was all the knew. He also claims that the children were pretty isolated from his father's "business" and thought he was just a regular business man taking care of his family. He admits he had everything he ever wanted as a child from a material standpoint, but again, basically thought it was normal.

in addition to the documentary, he wrote a book a couple of years ago, which I haven't read, but the documentary is interesting and I think may still be streaming on Netflix - it's called "Sins of my Father."

The documentary also contains some interview footage with Tata, and, if I remember right, she tends to highlight the positive things, and she seems to be very careful about stating what she may or may not have known was actually going on. I don't recall any mention of the daughter.

Edited September 5, 2016 by Rapunzel

[itsadryheat]

Thanks Rapunzel!

Son's film on Netflix - is called "Sins of my Father."

[Rapunzel]

Does anyone know for sure if they are making a 3rd series of Narcos? The Cali Cartel would be an interesting topic if they did.

Overall, I thought this was well done and fairly accurate based on various biographies and things that I've seen and read. I just kept thinking that, when Tata was so worried about being kicked out of that 5 star hotel suite that she claimed to be "jailed" in while having all of her needs taken care of, that she should sell some of her jewelry and clothing if she was so concerned about money and being able to live once they gave her the boot. She really enjoyed the high life, but though she grew up poor, in real life Pablo married her when she was 14 or something ridiculous like that, so I guess she spent most of her life with money and got used to it. They certainly did not make her very sympathetic in Narcos, which I was glad to see. She made her choices and there is no way she didn't know Pablo was setting off all of those bombs and killing all of those police officers and other innocent people.

While I felt bad for the children, especially the little girl who was too young to really understand much of what was happening or why they were being shuffled from place to place constantly, I loved that no other country would take them in. Not only did the Germans refuse them, they even kept the money she was bringing into the country with her.

The attorney general was a complete ass. The President, while making multiple stupid mistakes, like letting Pablo build his own prison AND staff it with his own guards, was just crazy (and that actually happened in real life), but he was right when he told the attorney general that his stupid attempts to negotiate with Pablo were hurting things even more. That's another reason I was glad Pablo's family couldn't get out of the country - the AG promised it as part of the negotiation for Pablo's surrender but was too stupid to realize that he couldn't make another government take them in.

The portrayal of Pablo's mother was interesting as well, and as others have mentioned, the real interview clips they showed at the end show she really was delusional about her son. She clearly enjoyed the benefits of the drug and death business as well and just turned a blind eye to all that was going on, despite the risk it put her grandchildren in. I love how she tried to deny it was her fault that Los Pepes found them and they had to flee from yet another safe house. She was told not to go to mass, yet just like Pablo, she does whatever she wants to do even when it put the children in the line of fire. It also showed what a mama's boy Pablo was as he agreed with her that it wasn't her fault and that he wasn't mad at her in the least - he was doing everything he could to comfort her. He also chose his mother's feelings over Tata's, and seemed to always side with mommy dearest over Tata.

Edited September 5, 2016 by Rapunzel

[thuganomics85]

Damn!  That was about 40 minutes of the law enforcement actually making some progress and getting things done for once, only for Pablo to just flip the script, and come out ahead.  Fare thee well, Carrillo.  You were scary in your own way, but at least you seem to shake Pablo to the core, so now I don't know what Pablo will do, now that what he considers his biggest threat is gone.  Murphy and Javier ended up acting being lucky to have to stay behind, even though Javier obvious feels guilty as hell for being played.

I did have my suspicious about Limon/the cab driver though, so I figured he had something else in mind.  I am surprised that he covered for Maritza, and claimed she was in on it.  I guess that's his one good deed, amongst all the evil and bodies he piled up.

Personally, I enjoy the stuff with Pablo and his family, and I don't mind it "humanizing" him, because it actually makes him scarier to me.  It would be so easy to just make him some stock, evil overlord, who is just a psychopath through and through.  But instead, here is a guy who can somehow seem to love his wife and kids, and then without hesitation, make an order that will kill hundreds of men, women, and children, and apparently still sleep at night.  That's scary to me, because I feel like there are probably a lot of terrorist/drug kingpins/etc., who are probably like that in real life.  The family scenes are interesting, but it never feels like they're excusing him, and it doesn't change the fact that he is/was a horrible human being, and ruined hundreds and even thousands of lives (and that's probably underestimating the number.)

I am curious about this new coalition being formed.  In theory, it does seem kind of solid, with Judy providing the information, Pacho and the brothers with the money, and now this militia has the men and weapons.  And it seems like it was part thanks to the CIA's meddling.  And now they'e trying to get Javier involved, and considering his guilt, I can see him doing it.

Man, Eduardo is loyal has hell for basically taking blame for everything, so the President can not be the scapegoat.

[itsadryheat]

Yes, his mother and wife are totally unsympathetic.

There was a line the mother made in a conversation to Tata about Pablo's childhood, that explained everything. Don't remember the exact quote, but the jist of it was a conversation mom was telling wife about some girl making fun of Pablo's shoes. He went and stole a pair or the mom stole a pair, and Tata said "you always take what you want". Apple part of tree.  

Such a contrast to Pablo's father, eh?

[itsadryheat]

3 hours ago, Rapunzel said:

The portrayal of Pablo's mother was interesting as well, and as others have mentioned, the real interview clips they showed at the end show she really was delusional about her son. She clearly enjoyed the benefits of the drug and death business as well and just turned a blind eye to all that was going on, despite the risk it put her grandchildren in. I love how she tried to deny it was her fault that Los Pepes found them and they had to flee from yet another safe house. She was told not to go to mass, yet just like Pablo, she does whatever she wants to do even when it put the children in the line of fire. It also showed what a mama's boy Pablo was as he agreed with her that it wasn't her fault and that he wasn't mad at her in the least - he was doing everything he could to comfort her. He also chose his mother's feelings over Tata's, and seemed to always side with mommy dearest over Tata.

Any thoughts on how did the the Los Pepes guy, also attending the mass, know Pablo's mother was going to mass?

[Rapunzel]

Quote

Any thoughts on how did the the Los Pepes guy, also attending the mass, know Pablo's mother was going to mass?

I thought that they were watching, thinking she, or someone close to Pablo may show, but especially the mother since she never missed it and made a point to mention that. I think they probably followed her from there. I was a little distracted at this point by our dogs however, but my husband believes this is what happened as well. Pablo's mother was so upset when she came back and kept insisting it wasn't her fault and they made such a big deal over her not going to that mass, that it makes sense she was followed back, especially as she doesn't appear to take any security measures or would even notice anyone following her.

Edited September 5, 2016 by Rapunzel

[Rapunzel]

38 minutes ago, itsadryheat said:

There was a line the mother made in a conversation to Tata about Pablo's childhood, that explained everything. Don't remember the exact quote, but the jist of it was a conversation mom was telling wife about some girl making fun of Pablo's shoes. He went and stole a pair or the mom stole a pair, and Tata said "you always take what you want". Apple part of tree.  

Such a contrast to Pablo's father, eh?

Yes, I was thinking of this line when I wrote my post. His mother was an elementary school teacher in real life, if you can believe it. I also thought that Tata shouldn't be pointing fingers though since she was pretty much same way as well now - she takes what she wants as well after having lived this pampered lifestyle and pretending nothing nefarious is going on at all and that the money she spends is earned by perfectly legitimate means, though the look on her face when they show her looking at the newspaper headlines of the policemen that were murdered definitely says otherwise.

The contrast between his mother and father is startling, as you mentioned. I wish we had seen a bit more on Pablo's childhood - even just a few flashbacks. Pablo came from a pretty big family - his parents had 7 children. I don't think they ever actually divorced as they were Catholic, so I wonder if they just went their separate ways because Pablo's mom didn't like farm life.

Edited September 5, 2016 by Rapunzel

[snowwhyte]

The whole scene with Maritza being shot in front of her young child really reminded me of similar events in season one. I couldn't remember the details so i went back and rewatched it. It was the young wife of the airplane bomber being shot to death in front of her baby who was left in the room with her mother's body until Murphy and Pena found her. That was how Murphy and his wife got their daughter. Maritza's mother probably found the baby and raised her but what a terrible thing for that entire family. Limon really betrayed his former school friend and yet by the end didn't seem to feel much remorse.

[itsadryheat]

8 hours ago, Rapunzel said:

"I wish we had seen a bit more on Pablo's childhood - even just a few flashbacks." 

Have you watched El Patron del Mal, (The Boss of Evil), the Colombian TV series about Pablo Escobar? (Netflix)

Apparently it is much more detailed and accurate from Escobar, his family and his victims point of view, vs Narcos, which is from the US/DEA agents point of view.  Since I am going thru some odd Narcos withdrawal, I am going to watch.

I recently saw, possibly TMZ, that Pablo's bean counting brother (Roberto?), was trying to sue Netflix for Narcos inaccuracies. Again, another apple from the same narcissistic tree. 

Fascinating.

[itsadryheat]

Yes, Limon. What a complicated, tragic character. You could tell he had strong, positive feelings for Maritza, but just wow on the roller coaster...trying to help her, then setting her up for his own benefits, then trying to help her, then setting her up. Of all the carnage, that one got to me.

(...good comparison with the poor airplane bomber's wife and daughter.  So much happening, hard to remember all of it.!)

[Rapunzel]

12 minutes ago, itsadryheat said:

Have you watched El Patron del Mal, (The Boss of Evil), the Colombian TV series about Pablo Escobar? (Netflix)

Apparently it is much more detailed and accurate from Escobar, his family and his victims point of view, vs Narcos, which is from the US/DEA agents point of view.  Since I am going thru some odd Narcos withdrawal, I am going to watch.

I recently saw, possibly TMZ, that Pablo's bean counting brother (Roberto?), was trying to sue Netflix for Narcos inaccuracies. Again, another apple from the same narcissistic tree. 

Fascinating.

Yes, I  have seen it. It's over 60 episodes, like most telenovela-type series, but it does go into more detail though there is a fair amount of it that isn't as accurate. It's still an interesting watch though. The actor that plays Pablo in that version isn't nearly as good as Wagner Moura and they show Pablo spouting off on a lot of tantrums,  but you do see more detail about his rise from when he was 20 or so - still not really his childhood.  I don't recall them even showing his father at all in that version or really even mentioning him.

Tata and his mother come across as more sympathetic, however (Tata in particular as they make her seem more naïve), so I think Narcos portrayed those two a bit better, especially as the mother was clearly helping Pablo run drugs very early on (the scene with her making the coat with the pockets for Lion to wear to Miami to hide coke in is in the original Colombian version as well). You also see a lot more of his famous ranch and the zoo he built there and a lot more of his overall extravagance. It also goes into more detail into his relationship with the Ochoa brothers and the formation of the Cartel, though again, they did take a decent amount of dramatic license, more than Narcos does in my opinion, but they do have a lot of episodes to fill up. It's still definitely worth watching, however.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Rapunzel

[itsadryheat]

Ahhh, Yes, the Lion's Miami coke coat. It will take alot to garner any sympathy for Mamacita Escobar. Let's see..7 children..we know how two of them turned out. Were they all involved in Pablo's business?

Wagner Moura - outstanding portrayal! I recently listened to an interview with Cuba Gooding Jr about his portrayal of OJ. He said it took quite awhile for him to shake the OJ off.  Looking forward to hearing from Wagner.

Pending research topic: the Ochoa brothers, (including the sister)

[Jade Foxx]

This two series were excellent, but I'm sick of Pablo, though extremely happy he's been wiped off this earth. I pray for some kind of peace for all his victims and their families. 

Felt the same way after Breaking Bad and the fictional Heinsberg - ENOUGH!!

Need to go watch puppy videos, now ?

[benteen]

Whew!  I was worried for a second that we weren't going to get Pablo's death until Season 3.  I'm glad I was wrong.  Very exciting scene and I was so glad to finally see him taken out.

I did laugh when we saw a picture of the real-life Steve though as he looked like a giant nerd with those glasses.

Really enjoyed this season.

[itsadryheat]

One of my favorite heroes is Colonel Martinez’s son (Search Bloc officer) who stops the Castaño brothers at a checkpoint.  Very dramatic scene, and he was so calm, guns drawn and outnumbered.

[thuganomics85]

"The Enemies of my Enemy" a.k.a. the episode where Javier pretty much looses his faith with the Search Bloc, and aligns himself with the Judy, Pacho and Bros, and militia coalition.  At least they took Velasco out of the picture, but yeah, this is probably just going to make things even bloodier on the streets.

Well, damn, President Gaviria!  I guess that's one way to convince a reluctant general to take over the Search Bloc.  Just assign his son to it as well!

I'm really feeling bad for Martiza.  She just had no idea that accepting that job from Limon would end up causing her so much grief, danger, and anguish.

Oh, Carlos.  Nice try, but it's obvious that Tata has fully drunken the Pablo Kool-Aid, and nothing is going to stop her from stay right by his side.  

[thuganomics85]

Nice going there, Pablo's mom.  Idiot.  And from the brief shots we saw of her after the shoot-out, she really didn't seem to have any guilt over almost getting them all killed.  If Tata didn't hate her enough as it is, I have to think she is dead to her now that Carlos is dead.  Of course, Tata herself has proven to be just as bad, by refusing to keep her children save, like Carlos suggested.  It's crazy that it looks like it's going to be Pablo of all people, that finally gets his family to safety.

That shoot-out was intense.  Pretty sure a lot of it was just one long tracking shot, although there were a few places were I felt there might have been able to edit it to make like it was just one take.  Either way, pretty impressive.  I don't think anything can quite top the one take tracking shot from the first season of True Detective or the two big fight scenes on Daredevil, but this was still really good.

I felt like this episode put a lot of emphasis on how everyone just focusing on Pablo and ignoring everyone else (the other cartel, Castano brothers, etc.), and it setting things up for them to be major problems later on.  Sure, Pablo totally needs to be brought down, but Los Pepes seem to be getting way too much power now, and I have to think all these players are going to huge problems later on.

Murphy totally knows what Javier is up too.  And Javier is beginning to realize what kind of people he's aligned with and the consequences of his actions.

[Avaleigh]

This show is great. Carillo's loss is tough. I understand that his methods weren't right but I'm glad that Pablo had to deal with somebody who legitimately scared him. I was nervous that Pablo would piss in his face before killing him. Thankfully he didn't go there. 

Carillo really was a tough guy. Oh, and so was that kid he threw off of the helicopter. Not the first one but the one who sees his coworker get thrown to his death and still tells Carillo to go fuck himself. That moment was pretty breathtaking. 

[paramitch]

What a terrific show. I thought this was a great finale, and the entire show was incredibly refreshing to me in a lot of ways. It was grim, frequently horrifying, and sickeningly violent, but it felt real. I loved the cinema verite feel, the color and tapestry and reality of the setting. I also loved the realistic use of language, of latin actors and people of color, and that even though Murphy was ostensibly the protagonist, there were plenty of times (as here) when he was barely around. 

I also appreciated that while the show had a rather obvious U.S.-centric window into the show with Murphy as it began, that as it went along, it did plenty of work showing up the U.S.'s own ineptitude, corruption, and hypocrisy (and the hypocrisy of its agencies too).

On 9/9/2015 at 11:58 PM, millennium said:

It seems impossible now that an entire country could be at the mercy of a single drug lord while the whole world sat by and watched.    Of course, maybe 20-30 years now we'll be saying something similar about ISIS.   Narcos is an amazing story.

I definitely agree that it was amazing -- the kind of history you can't make up. I was a kid in the 80s, so this really riveted and struck me as well. I felt like I learned so much from this show about a situation I had honestly never investigated all that deeply. I mean, Steven Soderbergh's "Traffic" is probably the deepest fictional exploration of the drug trade I've ever seen. This felt like it was that times a thousand. I was constantly horrified by this show (and then slightly shamefaced at my sheer naivete). 

I thoroughly enjoyed this season, and am looking forward to Season 2.

On 9/11/2015 at 11:02 PM, Avaleigh said:

I was slightly underwhelmed by the finale in comparison to the other episodes but still enjoyed it very much. 

I feel like an idiot for not realizing that Javier set Steve up. 

I have no idea why but I totally think that Javier and Connie are going to fuck at some point. I couldn't say what gave me that impression but I know it wasn't anything on her end. 

Sad that Steve can't/won't tell Connie the truth about why they can't go home. 

I felt the same way. I thought the finale was really good, but for me it didn't quite reach the heights  of some of the other episodes this season (for instance, the one with the baby and the standoff, or the early S1 episode of Javier trying to rescue his informant).

As far as Javier's chemistry with Connie, I know he's a horndog, but I would be honestly really shocked if he actually ever made a move on Connie. Besides, my theory on the chemistry there was simply that Pedro Pascal has chemistry with everyone in every single scene, ever, he can't help it. (He's a terrific actor, and he's also just ridiculously hot. I had plenty of scenes this season where I had to 'rewind' Netflix because I was gazing at Javier adoringly while sappy music played in my head. Don't judge me.)

On 9/14/2015 at 9:08 PM, MarysWetBar said:

Loved his partner tho, who seems to get it that you need to be dirty to take down dirty men.

I understood Javier's frustration with Murphy, and felt weirdly bad for him here. I don't think he was actively endangering his partner so much as making one of those vital greyscale decisions -- one that he felt was justifiable. But he was obviously panicked at Murphy's kidnapping and genuinely didn't seem to know what happened.

Meanwhile, I had to chuckle a little at Murphy's kidnapping. Nicest, politest kidnapping ever. The guy seemed so sincere at making him a really good cocktail; it cracked me up. ("Please! Do not go! You have not tried my cocktail yet!" and then -- best of all, when Murphy comes back, he mentions that the guy "made a mean cocktail!" So funny!)

As far as Javier being dirty to involve them, at least in the show's fictional terms, I understand it. Pablo's influence and corruption was so staggering, so comprehensive, they've constantly had no one to trust. Even their own agencies were constantly looking to fuck them over. So while the Cali kingpins were obviously involved to the eyeballs in their own brand of evil in the drug trade, the implication was that they were an evil that could be borne.

While Escobar was a monster that bit everything around it and yet had almost infinite reach. Escobar's danger was in his unpredictability and egotism. He bombed politicians because he got his feelings hurt. He killed hundreds (thousands?) of innocents.  No one was safe from Escobar and to quote "Game of Thrones," he'd happily burn the world just to be king of the ashes.

On 8/7/2016 at 8:49 PM, SophiaPehawkins said:

Just finished this series in one day. I thought it was great and Wagner Moura wonderfully played Pablo as a ruthless character. Spanish is my first language and I was impressed that he learned it for this role. On a couple of occasions his Portugueseness was evident, but otherwise sounded authentic. At least to my ears.

I more concerned with the Javier/Murphy storyline. So they're strongly hinting that he set him up, but why? I can't find a reason for it.

I absolutely agree on Wagner Moura, who was a revelation to me as Escobar. He was so incredibly charismatic and watchable, and I thought his performance all season was superb, as it was here in the finale. My favorite thing about Moura's performance as Escobar is there's a lack of vanity to it -- I really felt like he immersed himself into the physicality of Escobar and embraced it. He was just terrific. He had this terrifying way of going very, very still right before the rage would take him over. And his eyes would go flat. And you could just tell, it was all over. Whoever that rage was directed at, they had no chance.

Javier went behind Murphy's back and made an alliance with the Cali cartel leaders because they were willing to go in and take out Escobar and do what needed to be done. They were fellow evildoers with Escobar, sure, and certain to be on the DEA wanted list eventually, but I thought everyone understood and accepted that.

In the meantime, everyone involved was willing to collude to take out the monstrous Escobar, who had continuously shown that he was unpredictable and bloodthirsty on levels that could actually destroy their country. Whereas these other guys struck me more as doing what needed to be done -- sure, they were bad, bad guys, but they were business as usual bad. Escobar was something no one had ever seen before, and he managed to bring his country to its knees.

So I liked Javier, weirdly, for making that decision. My take on what happened was that Javier made the deal with the Cali cartel heads, who then called in their own (far more powerful and trustworthy) troops to assault El Catedral and Escobar.

I mean, look at what was happening otherwise: The corrupt army outside (that had had direct orders from the President to storm the compound) were all too willing to lie about those orders, to do nothing, and to let Escobar handle and manipulate the situation himself (within moments, he had flipped the tables and turned it into a high-level hostage situation, for instance). 

I'm looking forward to season 2, and I hope Murphy grows to forgive Javier. I just felt weirdly bad for Javier here, especially since Murphy had already crossed the line (to me, far worse) with that massacre/shootout the pictures referenced.

[paramitch]

On 8/31/2015 at 0:52 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Totally can't believe that the cat's death got a follow-up, with Steve and Javier trying to catch his/her's killer.  Justice for the cat!  At least they know who it was (Poison), but he managed to skate by for now.  Also can't believe that incident provided humor, but I chuckled at both Javier's reaction to the photo, and laughed at that double-crossing snitch trying to get back into good graces, by offering Steve another cat.  Columbia's so crazy!

Because I adore my two cats, I admit that I was with other pet people shaking their fists at the sky after the last episode and its awful final image of poor Puff, and I really liked that the killing of the cat was treated with a surprising amount of gravitas by the show.

And when that guy pulled the cat out of the bag (hee!) and held it up, I was both horrified and laughing. It was an eerily similar visual to that of the hanging cat, but this one was obviously alive and fine. 

Honestly, I thought Murphy should have taken it. Any cat that's that zen about being dangled by the scruff in open air (after confinement in a bag) is probably a sweetheart to have as a pet. Somebody adopt poor Colombian Puff!

On 9/10/2015 at 5:32 PM, Avaleigh said:

I thought Adan Canto was great too. It was both great and horrifying to listen to that speech because it was like watching somebody commit a noble suicide. The look that Escobar gave him I knew there was no way. Why didn't he wear the jacket? 

I agree -- this was one of the most powerful moments on the show thus far for me, because you saw him take a deep breath and just go, "No, this is not okay." I don't think I could have been that brave.

Valeria meanwhile is in it for the same reason everyone else is -- for power, for easy money (and access to it), and for the thrill (and for her it's obviously sexual) of danger and corruption. She's selling her soul and she's doing it with open eyes -- no illusions about who Escobar is. That makes it worse.

On 9/30/2015 at 4:07 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Justice for Puff! I loved that his partner insisted that it was a DEA cat that was killed.

I'm with you! I loved that too. Javier's incense on behalf of Puff just made me love him more than I already do.

[thuganomics85]

Netflix says "Why bother renewing Narcos for another season, when we can renew it for two more seasons?!"

[Constantinople]

Looking forward to seeing more of Gilberto.

The Blow Must Go On.  Indeed.

[itsadryheat]

Looks like the last scene with Javier getting grilled about the Cali Cartel was gift to all of us.

Per Constantinople upthread, Netflix says "Why bother renewing Narcos for another season, when we can renew it for two more seasons?!"

[thuganomics85]

I knew there had to be a reason for showing that random (?) family at the beginning of the episode.  Should have known it would be so a bomb could blow up in front of them and killing the little girl.  Again, Pablo gives no shit about the damage he causes.

Los Pepes not only take out Fernando, but his son too.  And they know that Javier was holding out on them, so he's definitely no longer on in their good graces (a.k.a. if Facebook was around back then, he would so be unfriended!)  Interesting that it was that CIA spook that put them onto Javier in the first place.  He really is moving things around in the shadows.

I obvious feel bad for Pablo's children and don't want any harm to come to them, but it was evilly fun seeing both Tata and Pablo flailing around, when their plan to have the family go to Germany fell through.  But the family is now in the Attorney General's custody, so at least Los Pepes won't be able to get their hands on them... I think.

I'm guessing the colonel's son being reassigned to intel is going to end up factoring in somewhere down the line. 

[snowwhyte]

I assumed something bad would happen to the nice family but I thought that they would have some relevance to the story beyond being random victims. Were they just included to make the bombing have more emotional impact? I don't think we necessarily needed it. It seemed emotionally manipulative in a way particularly when the dad finds his little girls shoe.

[itsadryheat]

"It seemed emotionally manipulative in a way particularly when the dad finds his little girls shoe."

Agree.

Like we aren't already shell shocked from all the violence.

[thuganomics85]

Talk about cleaning house.  Not only are pretty much all of Pablo's men either dead and captured (other then Limon), even Valeria meets an untimely end, thanks to Los Pepes.  When Pablo goes down, he sure doesn't go by himself.  He takes everyone with him, even if he doesn't mean too!

Javier finally confesses to Murphy what Murphy knew all along.  I do wonder how or is it even possible for Javier to get himself out of this hole he has dug himself in with Lose Pepes.

I did like that a lot of their success in this episode actually came down to solid police work, like phone tracing and interrogating suspects in an actual legit way (a.k.a. not violence or torture!)

[thuganomics85]

Yeah, there has been plenty of death on this show to say the least, but Maritza's death was hard to watch.  Foolishly thought maybe at least one decent person would get out of this, but nope.  Not in this world!  And it being Limon of all people; who did seem to truly like her; made it even that much hard to take.

Pablo and his dad finally throwing it down was really well-acted.  I almost thought Pablo would even off his dad for a second.  But I'm glad at least one of his family members isn't on the "You're the greatest thing ever, son!" train.

Oh, Javier.  You are in so much trouble, buddy.  Interesting that it almost feels like Javier has become the main DEA agent character for these last few episodes.  Really, Murphy hasn't done much this go around.  Hell, Boyd Holbrook's voice has probably gotten more time then his face, due to all the voice narrations.

Berna turning on Judy, but then using the CIA connection to get her out of the country instead of having her killed, it almost close to touching.  On this show, that is kind of nice.  Even if he's still calling her a rat on the way out.

It will certainly be ironic if Pablo's love for Tata is what exposes him.

[itsadryheat]

Props to all Thug!  

Pablo and Dad amazing acting, Javier's dancing and spinning, and Berna's chess moves.  

Good stuff!

[benteen]

Real stuff between Pablo and his dad.  It was interesting to see how impotent Pablo was when dealing with him.

I felt bad for Maritza's death too.

I loved the musical score at the end when Pablo returns home and is contacting Tata.  I've enjoying the score on this show a great deal.

[Falafel]

This episode was awesome. Totally got me, great plot twist, and yet when you think about what Limon said and everything we saw beforehand, it all makes sense. I really thought Limon and Maritza were toast, or I thought maybe they'd get away but it would create some chain reaction of problems that would have to play out as the episodes continued. But when the Americans couldn't go, I thought Carrillo's men were going to kill Limon and it was going to be a sad accident. But now we know Limon never got involved with the cops.

I'm really loving this season of Narcos so far. I felt the first season was decent enough, but it did feel like a film version of Wikipedia. I feel like the writing this season has built in a lot more dramatic elements and this season has just been more engrossing. I'm loving the twists and turns.

Side note: I wish the still photo that Netflix showed when the episode loads wasn't from the final four fucking minutes. I spent the entire episode waiting to see Maritza standing in a church holding a bag, which is kind of annoying. I don't read spoilers for a reason.

On 9/4/2016 at 9:06 AM, numbnut said:

Is it me, or was that a total cheat when they showed the cab-driving mullet dude "covertly" making the call from Pablo's house before the ambush? If he's in on it, why was he looking uneasy? Too bad they got rid of Carrillo so fast. His crazy made the show more interesting.

If you're a guy like Limon, who is not hardened like the other guys, and you have single-handledly orchestrated the murder of a bunch of cops, wouldn't you be a bit nervous too? Many things could've gone wrong if Maritza didn't go along with it -- and she did sound apprehensive on the phone -- or the police could've been a step ahead or been monitoring and ended up killing Limon and Pablo. Who knows? The nerves, especially on the car ride when he asks how Pablo is feeling, made even more sense to me after we know what was happening.

On 9/3/2016 at 10:36 AM, pivot said:

One of the media reviews claimed that Narcos season 2 humanize Escobar too much. I am not sure that any amount of family scenes is going to humanize the guy that blew up an airplane and then organized an ambush against the Bloc Squad. 

That was a shocker. 

I do think they show him doting on his kids way too much. Maybe the real Pablo Escobar did that and was a big family man, but it feels like they are intentionally trying to make us not completely hate Pablo. A guy like that who did what he did I would picture being abusive and controlling, honestly. But I guess part of what creates the push and pull of this series is that sometimes the bad guy can be nice and sometime the good guys are assholes. I personally don't care about the scenes with his family. I still think it's creepy that he married his wife when she was so young.

Quote

I think his wife is worse. She knew damn well what Pablo was doing and even encouraged it

How in the world is standing by and allowing something to happen worse than doing it yourself? Is she supposed to control his actions somehow? She was the one who wanted to leave Colombia altogether and just raise their kids and he refused.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Falafel

[Sheenieb]

Quote

RIP Carrillo. He was a hot piece of psychopathic ass. 

He was. I get why his death made sense for storytelling purposes, but I'm slightly annoyed it was done. The real guy that Carillo is based on, Hugo Martinez, didn't die. He made it all the way to the end. His son was actually instrumental in picking up the frequency that eventually led to Pablo's capture.

Quote

I do think they show him doting on his kids way too much. Maybe the real Pablo Escobar did that and was a big family man, but it feels like they are intentionally trying to make us not completely hate Pablo. A guy like that who did what he did I would picture being abusive and controlling, honestly. But I guess part of what creates the push and pull of this series is that sometimes the bad guy can be nice and sometime the good guys are assholes. I personally don't care about the scenes with his family. I still think it's creepy that he married his wife when she was so young

He was a big family man. On paper, they did typical family stuff like vacations. As @thuganomics85 mentioned, that's what made him scarier. He didn't have a menacing look to him at all. He was a chubby stoner. And yes, if I remember correctly, Maria Victoria was 14 when they met. He had a thing for young girls.

[itsadryheat]

So the real life Carillo (Martinez) is a composite of both the fictional Carillo and fictional Martinez (who was manipulated into taking the position because his son entered Search Bloc)? I need cliff notes.....

[Sheenieb]

2 hours ago, itsadryheat said:

So the real life Carillo (Martinez) is a composite of both the fictional Carillo and fictional Martinez (who was manipulated into taking the position because his son entered Search Bloc)? I need cliff notes.....

Yes. Hugo Martinez wasn't corrupt, but he faced criticism for his ... methods to find Pablo. My source material is the book Finding Pablo. I highly recommend it.