S09.E04: Will's 5th Birthday

[BitterApple]

Yeah, the counter thing makes me nervous because neither Will nor Zoe has good coordination or balance. I'm sure they're just imitating what they've seen Jen do a million times, but I agree it's not something that should be encouraged.

[SPLAIN]

Whatever. I love this show and it is the only show that I can watch and have a smile on my face the entire time. I swear, when I watch the show, I am at peace. Not so when reading these topic threads.  Sheesh.

[Literata]

In reply to zoey on the counter, they just dont seem as scared for her health much. Shes really small and i agree could get hurt awfully bad. During her fall at Christmas i would freak, i wouldn't let any child on a counter and what changed from the time Jen was crying her eyes out over Will getting ear tubes? Whats different between the two that causes auch a different reaction from mom and dad. Is zoey just alot healthier or does will get more attention or favoritism for being a boy? Why was she allowed on thecointer with her arm in a mixer? Jen cried like a baby when he needed his hearing test. Something is amiss here.

If the implication is that Bill and Jen don't care for Zoey and/or are favoring Will -- again, I think anyone with On Demand or DVR can rewatch any episode and ascertain that that's not the case. Yes, get them off the counter, by all means. But Zoey is certainly not being singled out or mistreated.

[iamkarski]

Take time to read the blog about Will when he was still in The New Day Foster Home...

http://newdayfosterhome.blogspot.com/2010/12/lifechanging-day.html

[LIGirl]

Christ, I feel like I stumbled into the Twilight Zone version of "The Little Couple" thread.  Where the hell am I?

 

I am not a hawk-eyed viewer that watches every single scene with a microscopic and analytical view of the kids and how Jen and Bill opt to parent them.  But I do see way more than enough to know that Zoey is not abused, neglected, pushed away, or mistreated in any way, especially in comparison to or in favor of Will. I also fail to see this supposed spoiled screaming banshee version of Will, but rather, a typical little boy who literally just turned 5 years old and is still very much testing the boundaries of his parents and learning how to modify his behavior and ability to understand what is expected of him with them, his sister, and in general.  I don't know of a single, solitary preschooler who doesn't throw a fit over what is "Mine!" with a sibling, when it's their turn at a task, or the struggles of sharing lots of things, including their parents' undivided attention, at that age.  If they are perfectly behaved and complied in a completely civil and peaceful manner with never a tantrum or disagreement, then I expect that child grew up to either be Ghandi, Mother Theresa, or a monk.

 

Zoey fell and hit her head last year because it was an unexpected and most likely unpreventable accident that literally happened within a split second.  This is what happens with children all the time at any age.  You cannot hold their hand or keep every adult's eyes on them every second of every day in fear of them never physically hurting themselves because it's impossible!  Should Zoey be up on the counter?  No, not in a perfect world.  But Bill and Jen were both right there and I am sure they have had the talk with their kids not to climb on anything high on a regular basis, especially without permission or under the watchful eye of a responsible adult.  We don't see every minute of every day, conversation, and interaction of Bill and Jen with the kids; we only see a small and edited portion of their lives.

 

Furthermore, I believe that if Jen cried over medical things that happened with Will, it was probably first child nerves and uncertainties.  Many, many parents are much more stressed, scared, and tense over things that happen, especially the unknown and medical things, with the first child than they are with each subsequent child because by the time the 2nd, 3rd or 4th child arrives, they often know what to expect! Please don't also forget that because of Jen's health situation, she missed the physical (and maybe having any overly emotional reaction) that Zoey needed in order to be permitted to go home with them (Jen flew home early), and one of the first major medical appointments had Jen meeting them at the hospital while she was in an already precarious state during an in-hospital treatment cycle.  Bill and Jen are also first time parents to two little, but active (read: not newborn!) children who arrived pretty close together in time.  What set of new parents aren't going to make mistakes or fret over the right thing to do in terms of discipline, socialization, education, food choices, medical needs, etc. with their child[ren]?  I'd be more worried if they never, ever made a mistake and the children were quiet, perfectly behaved robots every second of every day without nary a hair out of place at any moment.

 

With all of that said, I think the bottom line for me based on this episode and every other one I've watched, I have yet to see one single reason why we shouldn't trust that the kids are in very good, very capable hands with Bill and Jen.  If they make a "mistake" one day or another, then that's fine by me because then I know that they are still human and not some stepford robots who are operating under unattainable standards.

Edited June 23, 2015 by LIGirl

[walnutqueen]

It's like deja vu all over again.  :-)

 

I don't remember if this scene was in the episode or on one of the "extra" videos on the website (thanks again, iamkarski!), but the trick with the blower and toilet paper roll had me laughing like a loon.  Those science museum folks really know how to entertain kids (and people like me, who are easily amused).  I wish all kids could experience science and learning as FUN at an early age.

[Honey]

Unlike average height kids/adults, Will and Zoey will have to stand on counters their entire lives. Maybe that's why Bill and Jen didn't really freak out about it. It's going to be a fact of life for them.

[Mya Stone]

This is like déjà vu for us.

I will not tolerate calling others trolls. I've gotten rid of posts that do just that. A differing opinion does not equate troll. If you feel someone is, report their posts that cross the line of dickishness and DO NOT ENGAGE.

If you don't like what someone has to say, we welcome you to use the ignore function.

[mbutterfly]

Unlike average height kids/adults, Will and Zoey will have to stand on counters their entire lives. Maybe that's why Bill and Jen didn't really freak out about it. It's going to be a fact of life for them.

I'm only slightly short and I have always climbed on chairs and counters and whatever to reach the top shelves, especially to clean them. Bill said Jen does it, and I'm guessing it is fairly frequent. Sometimes kids fall. It's just what happens. 

[Literata]

In reply to zoey on the counter, they just dont seem as scared for her health much. Shes really small and i agree could get hurt awfully bad. During her fall at Christmas i would freak, i wouldn't let any child on a counter and what changed from the time Jen was crying her eyes out over Will getting ear tubes? Whats different between the two that causes auch a different reaction from mom and dad. Is zoey just alot healthier or does will get more attention or favoritism for being a boy? Why was she allowed on thecointer with her arm in a mixer? Jen cried like a baby when he needed his hearing test. Something is amiss here.

I don't see this, but if anyone else is perceiving things that way, it may be as simple as first child/second child. Any of us with more than one child knows how this works: You're hypervigilant with the first one, but by the second, you've come to realize you don't need to obsess about their safety every moment. I know Jen and Bill didn't have long with Will before Zoey came along, but who knows. Maybe it still could apply. But again, I don't see it happening at all.

I certainly don't see any difference being made between the two kids on the basis of sex. I can't see either Jen or Bill assuming Will is more capable than Zoey because he's male. I actually notice a great deal of parity in the way they treat the kids.

[Flowers]

I didn't like that Bill and Jen let Zoey climb into Will's bed when he clearly didn't want her there, I think it's important that kids have boundaries, and also places/things that are only theirs. I'm not on-board with "You must share everything!!" How would Bill or Jen feel if a coworker or neighbor wanted to take one of their cars out for a spin? Or stroll into the house and use their TV or appliances? "Sharing" is nice thing but shouldn't be mandatory.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Flowers

[Lnmop]

I can't find a way to enable "ignore" on my iPad. Am I missing something?

[Kohola3]

Bill and Jen take the path of least resistance, no matter what they think is right.

 

What we see is undoubtedly edited.  I'm not sure the TLC gurus would want us to watch half an hour of kids in time out or crying over what passes for tragedy with kids this age.  We don't have insight into what really happens most of the time - we see what TLC wants us to see to foster good ratings.  I, for one, would not be as devoted if I was subjected to an endless stream of disciplinary techniques.  I need me some happy!

 

I grew up with tons of cousins and our life's work was finding ways to drive each other crazy including messing with each other's possessions.  Zoey and the book was my cousin and me at that age.  No one grew up to rob convenience stores with pantyhose over our heads.

[DkNNy79]

When you click on the "person" icon at the top, your username shows up.  It lists options and one of them is manage ignore preferences.  You type in the user that you want to ignore.

 

Took me awhile to figure that out today :)

[Lnmop]

Thanks, DkNNy79! You're a gem!

[DkNNy79]

With regards to Zoey on the counter.  Bill was there and he put his hand over her head so that she would not bump it into the cabinet when she stood up.

 

Getting onto counters and even taking the stairs using their "hands" for assistance since the steps are bigger then their legs can lift are going to be a part of their life, so I didn't have a problem with it.  As long as their parents are around when they do it, I think its fine.  I think Bill and Jen should talk to the kids about them not doing it w/out an adult around for safety.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

With regards to Zoey on the counter.  Bill was there and he put his hand over her head so that she would not bump it into the cabinet when she stood up.

 

Getting onto counters and even taking the stairs using their "hands" for assistance since the steps are bigger then their legs can lift are going to be a part of their life, so I didn't have a problem with it.  As long as their parents are around when they do it, I think its fine.  I think Bill and Jen should talk to the kids about them not doing it w/out an adult around for safety.

 

Well Bill did say no to Zoey and asked her to come down but she giggled so he and Jen joined in and then Will joined Zoey on the counter and they all had a good laugh about it!   I guess Will and Zoey's feet are much cleaner than Josie's too.  It is more than a safety issue, it is also a hygiene issue as they prepare food on that same counter.   

Edited June 23, 2015 by Foghorn Leghorn

[Jellybeans]

I see the walking on the counter thing as a little person's physical adaption to a larger environment and Mom and Dad are gradually teaching them how to do it safely...we know Jen still has to get on the countertop herself. She's also a clean freak so I'm not concerned about hygiene.

[Snow8585]

I just watched this episode again and after Zoey climbed on the counter, she walked backwards away from Bill.  And out of his arm reach. She was smiling and thought she was being very clever. And then Will climbed on the counter and then Bill focused on Will and not Zoey and then Jen came upon the scene. I do not see anything safe about that. At least Jen was successful in getting them down but why on earth didnt neat freak Jen at least wipe the counter off after the kids walked all over it in bare feet? I agree with another member on here that Zoey could end up being the handful and not Will.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Snow8585

[LIGirl]

I see the walking on the counter thing as a little person's physical adaption to a larger environment and Mom and Dad are gradually teaching them how to do it safely...we know Jen still has to get on the countertop herself. She's also a clean freak so I'm not concerned about hygiene.

 

As a little person, I can 100% vouch for this.  Although, unlike Will and Zoey, I didn't have any little people family or friends to "teach" me how to safely navigate countertops and other high surfaces; I just did it on my own as I got older.  To this day I do it in my own home and if my grandmother is around, she practically watches me like a hawk.  And I'm like, dude, I've been doing this for over 30 years, give me some credit!  LOL  I know it could take just one split second for me to fall and crack my head open, but eh, I guess I'm so used to it that it's no big deal to me.  Plus, I swear, it's like my body/mind somehow knows that my balance is much more crucial when I'm up on my counters because my balance is like that of an Olympic gymnast when I'm up there, haha.  Oh, and while I don't step all over my counters with grimy shoes or bare feet, I still make sure all the surfaces of my home are pristine just like I'm sure Bill and Jen do with their home.

[Snow8585]

I am just sharing my views on what i saw on the episode and expressing my concern as we know that Zoey has already fallen once that we know of where she hit her head hard enough to make it bleed all over the place and we saw her balance was not quite there yet in ballet class. Jen herself upon entering the kitchen reprimanded them the best she could , with Bill laughing , that the counter was not a balance beam and they were to get down immediately. And they really should put the mixer away.  But anyway, i enjoy this site because I learn new things and new ways of looking at things from everyone here.

[Jellybeans]

People with disabilities figure things out. Zoey and Will know it is a long way to the ground. I would keep encouraging them to safely retrieve what they need. They must learn to live in what is essentially a big world.

And just because we don't see Jen wipe off the counter does not mean it did not happen. It would be boring to film that.

[Flowers]

What we see is undoubtedly edited. I'm not sure the TLC gurus would want us to watch half an hour of kids in time out or crying over what passes for tragedy with kids this age. We don't have insight into what really happens most of the time - we see what TLC wants us to see to foster good ratings. I, for one, would not be as devoted if I was subjected to an endless stream of disciplinary techniques. I need me some happy!

I grew up with tons of cousins and our life's work was finding ways to drive each other crazy including messing with each other's possessions. Zoey and the book was my cousin and me at that age. No one grew up to rob convenience stores with pantyhose over our heads.

But there's a difference between kids antagonizing each other and working things out on their own & an adult right there saying "It's okay, Kohola, your cousin is going to have your book and your bed, now." Edited June 24, 2015 by Flowers

[Jellybeans]

I want a Will and Zoey doll. It has to be a soft version though. Aww!

[Wellfleet]

I was a huge chatterbox at home when I was a kid. Get me outside the house and I wouldn't say two words. I don't think Will is any more manipulative than any other kid. He's young for his age and it shows. Much as I love Zoey going forward I think she is going to be the bigger problem for Jen and Bill. She is wilful, thoughtful, smart enough to know she will never hear the word no from her daddy, intelligent, independent, all wrapped up in a gorgeous package. She is trouble waiting to happen. Will is just a Bubba

 

Agree, but I think this is just a gender distinction and not specific to Zoey. I'm guessing that - overall and in general - most parents would say boys are easier to raise. My mom had 3 boys and 3 girls, and to her last day she said that girls were only easier when they were quite young, maybe 8-10 and under. Once they entered the pre-teen years that was it. I know my Mom would definitely vote for boys needing FAR less care-and-maintenance than girls.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Wellfleet

[SandyToes]

 

At nasa the sign said restricted. Willi passed it up and what fun time it was ignoring rules and disobeying the signs of the nasa rover area

 

A lot of the Space Center Houston/NASA footage was shot in areas not normally accessible to the general public. (One shot was from a reception/lounge area at SCH.) To be in these "restricted" areas, you need to be in the company of badged NASA employees, or on a VIP-type tour. As notable Houston residents, with a camera crew in tow, I'm sure they had special access to normally off-limits areas. I think we've seen other backstage-pass-type things when they've gone other places. Camera crew = special treatment.  Not to say that maybe Will was a little fast and loose with the rules, but they were supervised and pretty much in an off-limits area to begin with.  It's hard to say "no" to that giggly face. Would be for me, anyway.  And I don't want to watch parents discipline their children.

 

Zoe on the counter scared me, too. All I could think was, "No one can catch her if she falls!"  But for a 4-year old, it is hard to tell them not to do things they see their parents do. Part of being a family with special circumstances. Still love 'em, they still make me smile. All i require in my TV viewing choices.

 

Edited June 24, 2015 by SandyToes

[Snow8585]

What is boring to some is interesting to others. I hope next year Zoey get s a cool looking cake instead of a tower of cupcakes.

[Honey]

Well Bill did say no to Zoey and asked her to come down but she giggled so he and Jen joined in and then Will joined Zoey on the counter and they all had a good laugh about it!   I guess Will and Zoey's feet are much cleaner than Josie's too.  It is more than a safety issue, it is also a hygiene issue as they prepare food on that same counter.   

I would bet my LIFE on the fact that Zoey's feet are cleaner than Josie Duggar's.  :)

[walnutqueen]

I would bet my LIFE on the fact that Zoey's feet are cleaner than Josie Duggar's.  :)

 

I'd bet Zoey's feet are cleaner than my kitchen countertops!  :~)

[skippy]

Forget it.  I'm not feeding them.

 

Excellent!   Thank you!

[Literata]

Does anyone see that all reference from astronaut to race car driver to best dressed is always directed at Will? At nasa Jen said he would be a great astronaut, then she giggles at Will when he does not follow rules. At nasa the sign said restricted. Willi passed it up and what fun time it was ignoring rules and disobeying the signs of the nasa rover area, oh and goody he found keys Jen lets laughand encourage him to put keys into an ignition at five yrs.old the fun keeps coming as long as William gets his way.

NASA security people had to have been with them the entire time; Will would not have been allowed into any areas that truly were dangerous or constituted a security risk. A VIP on a guided tour is presented with opportunities the general public doesn't have.

And on his own, he's naturally going to ignore signs. He can't read them.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Literata

[Kohola3]

I must say, if I found the lunar rover keys, you better believe I'd be joy riding around NASA!

[Snow8585]

Bill and Jen yelled to Will to not go over to the rover but he kept going.

[Literata]

Bill and Jen yelled to Will to not go over to the rover but he kept going.

I think we've all been watching the Duggars too long. Most little kids don't follow directions immediately. I like the fact that within reason, Will and Zoey are being allowed to have minds of their own as their personalities make themselves known. I don't think for a moment that Jen and Bill would allow the kids to jeopardize their safety, but I also appreciate that they don't sweat the small stuff (no pun intended. :)

Edited June 26, 2015 by Literata

[Snow8585]

I don't watch the Duggars thank goodness. My point is that they tried to tell him not to go there and they were being respectful of places that were off limits.

[BW Manilowe]

When they were pushing buttons & stuff, I heard Judy (Nainai/Jen's Mom) actually ask if the kids/Will could hurt anything doing that. Their Tourguide said NO, they couldn't.