One is the Loneliest Number: Unpopular GG Opinions

[HeySandyStrange]

 

I think Mia's actions in hiring Lorelei as a maid and housing her and Rory in a potting shed were downright criminal.  How the hell does someone see a teenaged girl with an infant and think, "Gee, I could contact her wealthy family and send her back home where she and the baby will be well provided for.  Nah, I'll put her to work scrubbing toilets and let her and the young'un live in squalor."  That's not doing her a favor, it's explotation.  Lorelei should have been in school, not doing grunt work while Rory sat strapped in a car seat.

 

The whole story of Lorelai and Rory dropping on Mia's doorstep and living happily ever after is pretty outlandish, but to play devil's advocate, a) I believe it was implied that Lorelai had already graduated from HS before running away from home and b) Lorelai was either 18 or very close to it, so maybe Mia figured sending her home at that would be pointless? That she might just run away again and end up in an even worse situation? Pretty weak reasoning, but sometimes you just have to swallow GG's version of logic to move on and enjoy the show.

 

 

I know its a TV show, but when you look at it, you had to take your stupid pills to make the plots worked. Instead of you know, Lorelai living in the hotel itself and paying room and board with her paycheck. At least that would have came off more plausible.

 

Lorelai&Rory's potting shed living always rubbed me the wrong way, as well. We are led to believe Mia loved and cared for them like her own, yet she let them live in a one room potting shed for eleven years? I can see it as a temporary situation one when they first showed up at the inn, until better accommodations were found. You'd think with how well-liked Mia was she would've been able to get them a cheap apartment. Or better yet, as you pointed out readster, find an empty room in the inn for them. In the real world I'd think a lot of the townsfolk would have looked askew at the whole situation and Mia and Lorelai would've been visited by the authorities at some point.

[FictionLover]

People are really going to hate me for this, but I am so sick of hearing "Team Dean, Team Jess or Team Logan? Who deserves Rory". First of all, IMO none of them are a prize and neither is Rory. The nice, thoughtful high school girl turned into a very selfish, shallow, immature baby-talking college student. I liked her so much in the first few years, even though she would sometimes throw her mother under the bus at FNDs,I still thought she was sweet. I know college kids, especially sheltered ones, have lessons to learn when they leave the nest, but her character changed so much. I was disappointed the direction the writers took Rory.

Someone said earlier in this topic that they didn't feel she and her mom were really that close. I agree with that and it only got worse throughout the seasons. If they really were close, she would have been more concerned about her mom and advocating for Lorelai when Luke decided to become a jerk. But then again, she was only thinking of herself.

[amensisterfriend]

People are really going to hate me for this, but I am so sick of hearing "Team Dean, Team Jess or Team Logan?

 

Ha---I'm more 'Team Why Didn't AS-P Create More than One or Two Male Characters of Any Age Who I Could Actually Like and Root For?!", so I totally get where you're coming from :) (Which is not to say the female characters are paragons of perfection, because lord knows they're not, but I do think that on the whole GG's female characters had more strengths---at least theoretically, even if they weren't always in evidence---to balance their numerous flaws!)  

[HeySandyStrange]

 

People are really going to hate me for this, but I am so sick of hearing "Team Dean, Team Jess or Team Logan? Who deserves Rory". First of all, IMO none of them are a prize and neither is Rory.

 

Thank you! I've never really been invested in any of Rory's relationships and the prospect of another shipper war go around with the revival is nauseating to me. I think all her relationships served there purpose and to be fighting over which guy she should end up with ten years later is pointless and takes away more interesting Rory storylines. For that matter, I'm over Team  Luke and Team Chris. I used to be a javajunkie but unless Luke and Lorelai can be in a believably mature, affectionate relationship I'd rather they remain good friends.  Neither Gilmore girl is a prize and none of the men should be fighting over them like they are.

[amensisterfriend]

I think all her relationships served there purpose and to be fighting over which guy she should end up with ten years later is pointless and takes away more interesting Rory storylines. For that matter, I'm over Team  Luke and Team Chris. I used to be a javajunkie but unless Luke and Lorelai can be in a believably mature, affectionate relationship I'd rather they remain good friends.  Neither Gilmore girl is a prize and none of the men should be fighting over them like they are.

 

I always held the UO that the show's romantic relationships were easily among the least likable, most irritating and worst depicted aspect of GG.

AS-P often did a skillful job writing pre-romance buildup and post-romance breakups, but IMO she was pretty ghastly at depicting everything that came in between.

 

I've always been vastly more invested in the dialogue, the family relationships, friendships, and...whatever Paris/Rory is :) (Frenemy-ship?!) 

Edited February 29, 2016 by amensisterfriend

[dustylil]

Gee, I could contact her wealthy family and send her back home where she and the baby will be well provided for

 

Certainly Mia could have and should have contacted the authorities about this teenager and her baby, but I see no reason why she should have been in touch with  the senior Gilmores. Simply because the family was well-to-do is no reason to assume  that Lorelai and Rory would be well taken care of. After all, Lorelai had run away from her parents'  home. Let the officials of the  appropriate protective services agency investigate the matter and have them decide what was best - for both Rory and Lorelai. 

 

The potting shed as a place to live only makes sense if one remembers that ASP is a southern California yokel. Living in outbuildings there has been a practice in hard times  for several generations. I know my mother-in-law lived in a garage with her first child  near San Diego during WW 2 while her husband was serving in the South Pacific. For whatever reason ASP  seemed to be  unaware that the climate in Southern California is different from that of Connecticut - it is part of her quirky charm, I guess.

I believe it was implied that Lorelai had already graduated from HS before running away from home

 

Actually no, it was made clear in Season 3 that Lorelai completed high school through the GED process.

 

I never blamed the townspeople for not taking action concerning the teenager and her baby. The Independence Inn was on the outskirts of the town if not farther away. How often would Lorelai - with a physically taxing job and a small child to care for - be in Stars Hollow in the early years? How many townies would even know of the pair until Rory started school?  And frankly given that the main industry of Stars Hollow was tourism and hospitality, looking the other way regarding  legal status and eligibility to work  was probably second nature.

 

And add me to those with little or no interest in Rory's love life in the revival. That she is content in her personal life is about all I want to know. Moping former swains I can happily do without.

[readster]

 

I never blamed the townspeople for not taking action concerning the teenager and her baby. The Independence Inn was on the outskirts of the town if not farther away. How often would Lorelai - with a physically taxing job and a small child to care for - be in Stars Hollow in the early years? How many townies would even know of the pair until Rory started school?  And frankly given that the main industry of Stars Hollow was tourism and hospitality, looking the other way regarding  legal status and eligibility to work  was probably second nature.

Those were also plot holes in the series. I had to assume that Lorelai took Rory where ever she went. That included groceries, supplies, ect. I don't expect that Lorelai just off Rory with her co-workers when she needed to run and get things. Also said, I don't get how they were there for almost 11 years. I can see it taking that long for Lorelai to become a manager and finally make enough money to buy their house, but as said, it wasn't World War II anymore living in a garage apartment. This was a shed that would work for one person, but a growing girl from most likely the page of 5 and on. You don't think when people talked to Rory, especially when her and Lane became friends Rory didn't go: "We live in a potting shed where my mommy cleans rooms all day and then some." When the series started, Lorelai was just back in school to complete her regular business degree and Rory was already a freshman in college and they had been in their house for almost five years at that point. Timelines, housing, taxes and other things still don't make a lick of sense to this day. I guess we will know when the show starts airing as we are seeing with Fuller House now.

[txhorns79]

The potting shed as a place to live only makes sense if one remembers that ASP is a southern California yokel. Living in outbuildings there has been a practice in hard times  for several generations. I know my mother-in-law lived in a garage with her first child  near San Diego during WW 2 while her husband was serving in the South Pacific. For whatever reason ASP  seemed to be  unaware that the climate in Southern California is different from that of Connecticut - it is part of her quirky charm, I guess.

 

I don't really follow this.  Were we not supposed to think the potting shed was winterized?  It appeared to have electricity and running water.  I don't see why it would be a stretch to believe it had heat.     

 

 

Certainly Mia could have and should have contacted the authorities about this teenager and her baby, but I see no reason why she should have been in touch with  the senior Gilmores.

 

Isn't that just simple courtesy?  Unless the kid is telling you that his parents are abusive or are otherwise dangerous, I can't imagine not calling them to tell them something to the extent of: "I found your child, and called the police to come pick them up.  You can find them at the local police station or Department of Child Services."  It would just seem cruel to just withhold that information for no real reason.     

[takalotti]

If Lorelai didn't give Mia her parents' names or contact info, how could she reach out to them? And how would she know they were well off?

I believe Lorelai ran away sometime after she turned 17. I could see her being quite tight lipped about her family until she was 18 so that she wouldn't HAVE to be sent home. So Mia's choices would have been either to help Lorelai with a job and place to stay, or to call the cops who would make her go home just to run away again.

I'm not saying I would have done the same as Mia, but I can see it being plausible. And I just don't fault her for not contacting the Gilmores if she couldn't.

[Taryn74]

It's possible my memory is fading, but did we ever find out that Lorelai and Rory lived in the shed the entire time before they bought the Crap Shack?  The conversations I'm finding on the subject from Emily in Wonderland make it sound more like they just lived there for a time.  Rory has *some* memories of it but it doesn't sound like she lived there past the age of 5 or 6 IMO.

 

And honestly, I don't see anything wrong with the potting shed.  I think they just call it that to make it sound quaint.  It's no worse than an efficiency apartment, really.  *shrug*

[AllyB]

If Lorelai didn't give Mia her parents' names or contact info, how could she reach out to them? And how would she know they were well off?

Mia was in contact with the older Gilmores though. She had a deal with Emily to send her updates and photographs of Rory. Something that was kind to Emily but a serious breach of Lorelai's trust. The idea that they lived in a potting shed was ridiculous, especially when Lorelai worked at an inn. It would have made so much more sense for there to have been some sort of staff quarters in the attic and for the Gilmores to have lived there. It would have still given them the background of poverty and struggle for Rory's childhood but it wouldn't have been a set up that made it seem like poor Dickensian characters had it good it comparison.

[txhorns79]

I believe Lorelai ran away sometime after she turned 17. I could see her being quite tight lipped about her family until she was 18 so that she wouldn't HAVE to be sent home. So Mia's choices would have been either to help Lorelai with a job and place to stay, or to call the cops who would make her go home just to run away again.

 

I can't imagine it would be sustainable to show up on a stranger's doorstep with a baby looking for a job, and refuse to discuss where you came from or what was going on.  If that happened, I would think the first call would be to the police in every scenario.   

 

 

Mia was in contact with the older Gilmores though. She had a deal with Emily to send her updates and photographs of Rory.

 

I don't think Emily and Mia met until the second season of the show.  I think that was when Mia promised to send Emily old pictures of Lorelai and Rory. 

Edited February 29, 2016 by txhorns79

[Llywela]

Mia was in contact with the older Gilmores though. She had a deal with Emily to send her updates and photographs of Rory. Something that was kind to Emily but a serious breach of Lorelai's trust.

 

I don't think Emily and Mia met until the second season of the show.  I think that was when Mia promised to send Emily old pictures of Lorelai and Rory. 

That's right, there was no deal to send Emily regular updates and photographs back in the day - Mia and Emily meet for the first time in season two, which is when Emily asks if Mia has photographs from Rory's childhood, because she has none herself, due to her estrangement from Lorelai. That's when Mia agrees to send her a bunch of old photos.

[readster]

 

The idea that they lived in a potting shed was ridiculous, especially when Lorelai worked at an inn. It would have made so much more sense for there to have been some sort of staff quarters in the attic and for the Gilmores to have lived there. It would have still given them the background of poverty and struggle for Rory's childhood but it wouldn't have been a set up that made it seem like poor Dickensian characters had it good it comparison.

I agree and its still unclear when they bought the crap shack. Was it when Rory was in middle school? Or after she started 1st grade? The talk and timelines just don't make a lick of sense. You can try and turn off your brain, but really it just doesn't make sense instead of a hotel room, which many motels and hotels offer. Plus the fact that she was an employee there and the fact it was in the early 90s, so hence force. Families living in a hotel room was not uncommon. I had a friend of my brother's who lost their home in a fire. They lived in a hotel for close to a year before they had it rebuilt. They had to pay room and board like anyone else and it was  newer hotel back then, which was born down a few years later.

[amensisterfriend]

I actually think the episode where we meet Mia is arguably the worst episode of S2. The reverence for her was so weirdly exaggerated and over the top. I can understand Rory and Lorelai having a lot of affection for her, but nearly the entire town was ecstatic at her arrival. Apparently Mia was the best woman EVER who had this otherworldy effect on everyone she came into contact with because...well, just because!  It was the classic example of telling us rather than showing us that everyone LOVES this person, and therefore we should as well. When we actually meet the goddess in question, she's just so insipid. Outside of seeming self-impressed and smug, she didn't leave any sort of impression at all, and her bonds with people---including Lorelai and Rory---didn't feel deep or real to me. I also thought that scene with Emily felt painfully forced. I know most people saw the Mia 2.0 we saw in S7 as a step down, but she was no less likable for me than S2's version. So I guess the UO here is that while I get why Mia is supposedly a very key figure in the girls' past, I just couldn't care less about her :) I hope AS-P doesn't feel compelled to shoehorn her into the revival...she seems intent on including nearly everyone else we've ever met!  

Edited February 29, 2016 by amensisterfriend

[HeySandyStrange]

 

I actually think the episode where we meet Mia is arguably the worst episode of S2. The reverence for her was so weirdly exaggerated and over the top. I can understand Rory and Lorelai having a lot of affection for her, but nearly the entire town was ecstatic at her arrival.

 

It didn't help that the episode that Mia showed up in was the first the audience ever learned about her (at least that I remember). It made the overflowing of affection the Rory and Lorelai had for her seem out of place and insincere. Someone who was that important to them and the entire town would have been mentioned at least in passing at one point, you would think. I think ASP&co came up with the bright idea to introduce Mia as the mama bear and mentor to the girls but didn't think to build her character up a little before they dropped her down in Star's Hollow.

[moonb]

Yeah, for such an important character, Mia didn't make much difference in Stars Hollow except in her very special episode. 

 

I think Lorelai's contact with her parents and timeline for running away got more muddled as the series went on. There's the potting shed in Emily in Wonderland, and there's also Lorelai mentioning in an early episode (Rory's Birthday Parties?) that Emily and Richard visited them at the inn. I can see Lorelai hiding the potting shed from them, but I can't imagine Emily and Richard docilely coming to visit their teenage daughter and her young child without asking tons of questions about their living situation and really trying to push her to return home. Maybe at that point, the idea WAS that they lived at the inn itself. 

 

And of course, in the Bangles episode where Rachel first shows up, Lorelai and Sookie talk about how Lorelai moved into her house when Rory was about 11, implying that before that Lorelai really wasn't too involved in Stars Hollow life - removed enough not to know about Rachel, anyway. Later on it seems like she has a longer history with the town. 

[takalotti]

I agree that the timeline details are very very muddled, to say the least.

I guess I just always figured that certain things like the Gilmores visiting L&R at the inn happened after Lorelai turned 18 when, as much as they may have tried to convince Lorelai to do so, they couldn't force her to come home.

[AllyB]

I don't think Emily and Mia met until the second season of the show.  I think that was when Mia promised to send Emily old pictures of Lorelai and Rory.

Yeah you're right. I was remembering that backwards.

[dustylil]

When the series started, Lorelai was just back in school to complete her regular business degree and Rory was already a freshman in college and they had been in their house for almost five years at that point

 

Yes, they had been in their house for around five years when the series began. But Rory was a sophomore in high school then, not  a college freshman. She didn't start Yale until the beginning of the fourth season.

I can see Lorelai hiding the potting shed from them, but I can't imagine Emily and Richard docilely coming to visit their teenage daughter and her young child without asking tons of questions about their living situation and really trying to push her to return home

 

I imagine they did try to push her to return to Hartford. But since she was likely past eighteen by then, in gainful employment and Rory coming along nicely, there wasn't a great deal they could do about Lorelai's choices. Perhaps that was why they stopped visiting.

Was it when Rory was in middle school? Or after she started 1st grade?

 

Rory was eleven when Lorelai bought their house. I think that would be middle school for Rory

[txhorns79]

I guess I just always figured that certain things like the Gilmores visiting L&R at the inn happened after Lorelai turned 18 when, as much as they may have tried to convince Lorelai to do so, they couldn't force her to come home.

 

I'd imagine those visits probably stopped quickly.  Lorelai wasn't going to return home, and given the way she left, things were probably pretty strained between all parties. 

[AllyB]

Why did they call their house a crap shack? It seemed pretty nice to me. Presumably it was in a bad state when they bought it, but it looked like quite an old house and was preserved from the outside in a way that means it would have to have been well taken care of rather than totally falling apart. The flowers (presumably wisteria) growing over the porch would have had to be close to a decade old to be flowering as they were so it would have been a relatively cared for house up to the time they bought it. So other than being horribly decorated and unmodernised on the inside it would have been fine. Certainly a step up from a potting shed.

Edited March 1, 2016 by AllyB

[amensisterfriend]

So I just saw another reference to Secrets and Loans as among the very worst episodes of the entire series, and I have to confess that I actually like that episode! I don't LOVE it, but I can think of at least 50 or so episodes that I'd be a whole lot less apt to rewatch. I mean, Jackson's wrestling pajamas alone make it worth viewing ;) 

 

There are some episodes I don't hate as much as most but completely understand why many DO hate them---like a few of those episodes at the beginning of S7. But I kind of struggle to understand why so many critics, viewers etc. hate Secrets and Loans THAT much. Clearly I've managed to block out the worst parts of that episode...if only I could do the same for much of S5-S6 :) 

[txhorns79]

So I just saw another reference to Secrets and Loans as among the very worst episodes of the entire series, and I have to confess that I actually like that episode! I don't LOVE it, but I can think of at least 50 or so episodes that I'd be a whole lot less apt to rewatch. I mean, Jackson's wrestling pajamas alone make it worth viewing

 

Why don't people care for it?   I don't remember it being all that bad. 

[Guest]

I'm pretty neutral on Secrets and Loans, but I think a lot of the dislike of it (from those who dislike it) are the lack of continuity in the GG finances, Lorelai having to grovel to Emily, Rory going over her mom's head, etc.  That's what I've gathered from discussions.

[Mulva]

Here's another UO:

 

I don't blame Anna Nardini for not telling Luke she was pregnant.  I wouldn't want to be tied to that dreary, joyless, bitter, negative, perpetually angry killjoy for the next 18 years either, and I certainly wouldn't trust my child to someone with his violent tendencies.

[takalotti]

Here's another UO:

 

I don't blame Anna Nardini for not telling Luke she was pregnant.  I wouldn't want to be tied to that dreary, joyless, bitter, negative, perpetually angry killjoy for the next 18 years either, and I certainly wouldn't trust my child to someone with his violent tendencies.

Just had to say I love your name! I take it you're a Seinfeld fan?

[dustylil]

I don't blame Anna Nardini for not telling Luke she was pregnant.  I wouldn't want to be tied to that dreary, joyless, bitter, negative, perpetually angry killjoy for the next 18 years either, and I certainly wouldn't trust my child to someone with his violent tendencies

 

Then she should have used better birth control.

She wasn't  a young teenager, she was in her mid to late twenties when they were involved. Surely she was old enough to know what she was doing and take preventive measures so there would be no possible need of a long term connection with him

Edited March 1, 2016 by dustylil

[brightside]

Then she should have used better birth control.

She wasn't  a young teenager, she was in her mid to late twenties when they were involved. Surely she was old enough to know what she was doing and take preventive measures so there would be no possible need of a long term connection with him

 

I agree. I know sometimes BC fails, but still. And her first act as a parent was to make the choice to deny her child 50% of its parents. That's just a bad choice. It doesn't matter if she wanted to be tied to Luke or not, once she got pregnant it wasn't about her anymore.

[amensisterfriend]

I wouldn't want to be tied to that dreary, joyless, bitter, negative, perpetually angry killjoy for the next 18 years either, and I certainly wouldn't trust my child to someone with his violent tendencies.

 

I've described Luke the exact same way, so thanks for letting me know I'm not alone :) I don't really agree about Anna (though the less I dwell on that storyline, the better for my blood pressure!), but I do hold the UO that I wish Luke and Lorelai had never gotten back together following Wedding Bell Blues. By then I'd already decided they were drearily incompatible as a couple...though obviously most fans and the writers disagree!

 

A different UO: Even though I mostly wish Rory and Logan had never become more than a one night stand after JaCF or at least stayed broken up permanently after LMHYBRO,and even though I completely, totally get why some would hate Rory/Logan in general and I really dislike many of their scenes in S5 and the first parts of S6, my UO is that I actually think they have some pretty great moments in the last few episodes of S6 and through parts of S7. Apparently toppling off a cliff can really mature a guy and make him a little less insufferable to me ;) I hate myself for falling for that 'he had to get injured to wake up and for her to realize how much she cares for him' trope, but I'm sort of a sucker for those scenes. I'll show myself the door! 

Edited March 1, 2016 by amensisterfriend

[brightside]

I've described Luke the exact same way, so thanks for letting me know I'm not alone :) I don't really agree about Anna (though the less I dwell on that storyline, the better for my blood pressure!), but I do hold the UO that I wish Luke and Lorelai had never gotten back together following Wedding Bell Blues. By then I'd already decided they were drearily incompatible as a couple...though obviously most fans and the writers disagree!

 

A different UO: Even though I mostly wish Rory and Logan had never become more than a one night stand after JaCF or at least stayed broken up permanently after LMHYBRO,and even though I completely, totally get why some would hate Rory/Logan in general and I really dislike many of their scenes in S5 and the first parts of S6, my UO is that I actually think they have some pretty great moments in the last few episodes of S6 and through parts of S7. Apparently toppling off a cliff can really mature a guy and make him a little less insufferable to me ;) I hate myself for falling for that 'he had to get injured to wake up and for her to realize how much she cares for him' trope, but I'm sort of a sucker for those scenes. I'll show myself the door! 

 

I'm usually pretty indifferent to Lorelai's love life (other than I think Christopher is a deadbeat who gets too much slack from other characters), but every time someone makes an argument against Lorelai/Luke I think "well...they have a point..."

 

I'm a Logan fan, but I totally understand how people don't like early Logan. However, by the time he's jumping off cliffs he just gets some GREAT scenes. Rory and Logan's goodbye in "Partings" kills me. 

Edited March 1, 2016 by brightside

[txhorns79]

Then she should have used better birth control.

She wasn't  a young teenager, she was in her mid to late twenties when they were involved. Surely she was old enough to know what she was doing and take preventive measures so there would be no possible need of a long term connection with him

 

Given no birth control is 100% effective, are we now at the point where we are saying if she didn't want to get pregnant she shouldn't have had sex, or that they should have just done butt stuff?!  

 

 

Lorelai having to grovel to Emily,

 

That's interesting.  I viewed it as Emily pretty freely offering help with no real need for groveling by Lorelai.  The only time she got surly was when Lorelai was honestly being pretty darn immature about the whole thing when they were at the bank.   

Edited March 1, 2016 by txhorns79

[amensisterfriend]

However, by the time he's jumping off cliffs he just gets some GREAT scenes.

 

Ha! And, yes, I'm in agreement :) I'd love to hear more about your favorite Logan and Logan/Rory moments in their thread if you're ever inclined to venture over there! 

 

You actually reminded me of the very UO that I prefer the later part of S6 to the beginning part overall. I love LMHYBRO and hate Gwen/Gavin, Bridesmaids and some others that are part of that latter half of S6, but for me Rory and Lorelai not interacting is far more damaging to my enjoyment of the show than the L/L stuff. The fact that neither Rory nor Lorelai seemed to really change or grow as a result of said rift makes it even more annoying for me to sit through. I'm not an April fan and totally see why people would find the L/L scenes so immensely frustrating, but by then I'd already stopped caring about L/L as a couple or thinking that they brought out each other's best and happiest selves. I find Back at Yale Rory at least more likable and relatable again than the self-proclaimed 'sloth queen' socialite we were treated to at the beginning of the season, the dream and the visit to Jess in TRPA are interesting to me, I love Lane's wedding,  I think the end of S6 features some underrated and surprisingly entertaining Emily and Richard moments (another improvement for me, as I loathed them for most of the first part of the season), and, as noted above, that fall from a cliff did wonders for Logan and his dynamic with Rory for me :) 

Edited March 1, 2016 by amensisterfriend

[pawneerangers]

I thought Logan and Rory fit together really well and am the only person I know who wants to see them together in the revival even though that probably won't happen! Someone else wrote that they had a perfect combination of things in common and differences that balanced each other. She brought out his more deep and serious sides and he helped her relax and enjoy life more. But they also have a lot more similarities than we expected. Logan is great with words, he's quick witted and likes debating ideas just like she does. I think he's smarter and more caring than we give him credit for. He challenges her without being too rude and confrontational about it. I feel like he wanted so much for her to be happy. 

 

Logan has a lot of problems and maybe I wouldn't like him in real life. But he grew at a time in the series when most of the other characters slid backwards. I agree that falling off a cliff improved him lol but I liked him even before then. I agree so much with the poster who said that it was a nice change to have a guy who tried to be happy, pleasant and positive when most of the men on the show are so rude, negative and always angry about something. I never hated him for being rich and privileged. Sometimes it seems like Gilmore Girls tries to send a message that all rich people are shallow and less caring and only the characters without as much money can be truly good people but I just don't see things that way. You can't help the family you're born into and how you're brought up. I do blame Logan for being arrogant, bratty, condescending and too into partying but I really think he worked on his flaws. 

 

To me he almost always had a very good heart underneath and was there for Rory though obviously that's unpopular. Rory didn't seem happy most of the time with Dean or Jess and I kind of agree with people who said that Lorelai didn't seem as happy with Luke but when Logan and Rory were together and not having TV type problems I thought they made each other happier than any other relationship we saw on the show. Logan is not usually the type of guy I like at all so I was surprised by how he became one of my favorite characters.

 

Thank you for having this thread that lets us make our confessions! I know that liking Logan so much is strange and can understand why people don't like him. Maybe it would help if he had other friends. I read a few fanfics where he became friends with the people in Stars Hollow and it brought out the down to earth and likable sides of him we don't see as much when he's with Finn and Colin.  

[Smad]

Here's another UO:

 

I don't blame Anna Nardini for not telling Luke she was pregnant.  I wouldn't want to be tied to that dreary, joyless, bitter, negative, perpetually angry killjoy for the next 18 years either, and I certainly wouldn't trust my child to someone with his violent tendencies.

Not her decision to make. The decision to be involved (and how) or not is ultimately Luke's, not hers. If he decides to be involved and she thinks he could be potentially abusive to a child or in any other way have a negative impact on her daughter then it's for a court to decide what parental rights he gets (if any).

 

I never understood why it wasn't even mentioned in the custody battle that she kept it from him that he was a father because of 'you said you don't like children.'. Like, really? That's reason enough now? And lets not forget that April went to 3 different men because they could potentially be her father. Considering that by the time April did her project technology was far enough that you could more or less pin down the DOC...what does that say about Anna? Now I don't think it's mentioned that she was sexually involved with all 3 during that time (and she was sure April was Luke's) but there must have been enough detail in Anna's diaries that these other 2 weren't mentioned as platonic friends to make April think they were worth checking into. Urgh, Anna. Urgh this whole storyline.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Smad

[txhorns79]

Not her decision to make. The decision to be involved (and how) or not is ultimately Luke's, not hers. If he decides to be involved and she thinks he could be potentially abusive to a child or in any other way have a negative impact on her daughter then it's for a court to decide what parental rights he gets (if any).

 

I would disagree, and say if he was abusive, then that would be a legitimate reason not to tell Luke.  If I were in that situation, and the other person was truly abusive, there would be no way I would tell him anything about a child. 

 

 

And lets not forget that April went to 3 different men because they could potentially be her father. Considering that by the time April did her project technology was far enough that you could more or less pin down the DOC...what does that say about Anna?

 

I don't follow, what does that say about Anna?  And seriously, I think Anna was entirely wrong in her treatment of Luke and made terrible parenting choices regarding him.  However, the fact that she had sex with more than one partner within a certain period is apropos of nothing in terms of her parenting. 

[JayInChicago]

I want to go back to something I said pages ago, something that might have come off as weird. I am not a L/L shipper really. I didn't think Lorelai should have been romantically involved with any of the men put forth as possible suitors-- though maybe a casual fwb type relationship with Jason, if they hadn't given him such a unceremonious ending. But I do think that I've certainly known plenty of couples who had about as much chemistry as them. Maybe it was a little too depressing to have Luke be Lorelai's end game though.

I may have mentioned this before, but referencing the Donna Reed episode, a) Rory really should have gotten some sort of something for having her boyfriend over to Babette's tiny house, and b) how is "come help me find a lost chick" code for "wanna bang?" Is that some hetero thing I just wouldn't understand? The way Sookie is so "I seduced Jackson by telling him I had a bat!" I'm always just like....what.

[dustylil]

The way Sookie is so "I seduced Jackson by telling him I had a bat!" I'm always just like....what.

 

Yes. If it was a means of seduction, one would think it would be something Jackson said to Sookie :)

[Guest]

Yes. If it was a means of seduction, one would think it would be something Jackson said to Sookie :)

I literally just choked on my coffee!  Thanks a lot. ;)

[Smad]

I would disagree, and say if he was abusive, then that would be a legitimate reason not to tell Luke.  If I were in that situation, and the other person was truly abusive, there would be no way I would tell him anything about a child.

 

Then lets agree to disagree. It's still not up to her. If the man truely were abusive nothing prevents her from taking legal ways (sole custody, restraining orders, etc.) to ensure her and her child's safety. But since I doubt that Luke was absusive in any way and we know the reason she didn't tell him was as flimsy as 'he doesn't like children' then withholding the fact that he had a daughter was 100% wrong.

 

 

I don't follow, what does that say about Anna?  And seriously, I think Anna was entirely wrong in her treatment of Luke and made terrible parenting choices regarding him.  However, the fact that she had sex with more than one partner within a certain period is apropos of nothing in terms of her parenting.

When they were outside of the judge's room I remember Anna holding it against Luke that he never had long term relationships with women (or something like that) and that seemed to be somehting she would use in court. So why should it not count against Anna that according to her own daughter there could have been 3 potential fathers? If one counts then the other should too.

[txhorns79]

When they were outside of the judge's room I remember Anna holding it against Luke that he never had long term relationships with women (or something like that) and that seemed to be something she would use in court. So why should it not count against Anna that according to her own daughter there could have been 3 potential fathers? If one counts then the other should too.

 

I think you are talking about two different things.  I don't remember the exact scene, but if what you are saying is correct, Anna would be pointing to Luke's lack of stability when she is saying he hasn't been able to maintain a long term relationship with a woman.  Luke would then point to the stability in other aspects of his life, like his steady job and living situation.  If Anna was suggesting that Luke slept around a lot, and therefore was a bad parent strictly because of that, that would be a different story.  If Luke could show that Anna's current arrangement created a dangerous atmosphere for April, a Judge may consider that.  However, the fact that Anna slept with three different guys in a certain time period before April was born over a decade before wouldn't be particularly relevant. 

[amensisterfriend]

So here's one: I don't really like the end of S4, which many name as the best stretch of the series. Actually, S4 in general is a little overrated to me. 

 

And I really don't like Raincoats and Recipes much, often cited as the best episode of the show.The Rory/Dean stuff is painful for me to watch for multiple reasons. Turning the OVERLY independent Jason into a clingy stalker just to further pave the way for Luke/Lorelai struck me as really sloppy writing. Granted, I'm probably a little too protective of Jason, who I hold the very UO was the most compatible with Lorelai :) But I just hated how both Nicole and Jason had to be assassinated (she's a cheater! He's a stalker!) rather than the show doing a more nuanced storyline about why their relationships with Luke and Lorelai weren't working---and how Luke also played a key role in why his marriage to Nicole was a disaster.

 

And the UO within the UO: I  really don't like Raincoats' famous "just stand still!" scene between L/L. In retrospect, that first kiss scene epitomizes everything I ended up not liking about their romantic relationship: misunderstanding each other, Luke feeling annoyed, confused and irritated, both of them just generally not connecting and communicating clearly, and then a long-awaited kiss that seems (to me, obviously!) to lack spark. I hate the rom com trope in general about arguments and misunderstandings leading up to a first kiss rather than connection and affection, and this was no exception, though in some ways it foretells the L/L dynamic all too well!  

 

A different UO: The more I hear about the revival, the less psyched I am to see it. And I really, really WANT to be excited for it...it's just proving a tougher than expected task! 

Edited March 3, 2016 by amensisterfriend

[solotrek]

A different UO: The more I hear about the revival, the less psyched I am to see it. And I really, really want to be!

 

I watched the entirety of the X-Files revival and also the first episode of Fuller House. The bar for revivals is shockingly low right now. My psychness for this revival is also plummeting.

[Guest]

I think Jason and Lorelai were a great match.  I also thought their initial breakup was realistic - she couldn't be with someone suing her family, but he really felt he needed to sue because his business was being destroyed.  I thought they should have ended it there (like they did) instead of having him show up again to beg for her.

[readster]

I think Jason and Lorelai were a great match.  I also thought their initial breakup was realistic - she couldn't be with someone suing her family, but he really felt he needed to sue because his business was being destroyed.  I thought they should have ended it there (like they did) instead of having him show up again to beg for her.

I agree, they were probably the best written relationship the show had for Lorelai. Even why they got together made sense and I can look past Jason's weird dog and not being able to sleep in the same room as everyone. His story arc with Richard even was well handled, but it was so painful to see him in Raincoats because all of a sudden they threw everything out the window so Luke would look better for L/L relationship. Just like Nicole had to come across as a complete evil moron, so we would feel so bad for Luke. AS-P writing to relationships, make the other all of a sudden lose braincells, become an asshole or do a 180 so that we can cheer on the new relationship! Yeah, didn't work for the run of the show AS-P, what I fear for the reboot.

[amensisterfriend]

You guys just made my day with these pro-Digger comments! There was a time when liking the almost universally hated Jason was among the very most unpopular GG-related opinions...but then AS-P ruined so many other aspects of the series in later seasons that fans started to hate other people and storylines a whole lot more, so 'my' beloved Digger started to seem a little less unpopular by comparison :) 

 

I actually don't think Jason had much romantic chemistry with Lorelai, but then I have the UO of thinking Cristopher was the only guy LG had much romantic attraction/chemistry/connection with. (And I realize that Christopher obviously had a host of other issues regardless of said chemistry!) But Jason and Lorelai WERE awesomely compatible to me---they had a lot in common but enough differences to keep things interesting, and I just had the sense that they understood, connected and got each other in a way that Luke and Lorelai (IMO) didn't.

 

And despite---actually, because of---his many flaws, Jason fits so well into the GG universe for me. Unlike many of the show's significant others (Max, Dean, Nicole, etc), Jason has a well-defined personality, quick wit, sharp intellect, neurotic quirks and a good heart mixed with emotional 'issues' that make him an interesting and very GG-esque character in his own right. He drives some people crazy, and I know people hate that his fear of funerals and of sleeping in the same bed, but that sort of emotional self-protectiveness and distancing would have been interesting and amusing to see him work on if he had been more than cannon fodder. Honestly, I relate all too well to wanting to sleep in your own bed!  

 

Jason and Lorelai bantered in a way that felt more playful, stimulating and amusing than obnoxiously argumentative to me. He was animated (ie, not flat and lifeless!) without being angry and bitter all the time. He was a snarky, sarcastic realist without being joyless and negative. He pursued Lorelai and genuinely wanted to make her happy without changing her but could also challenge her and call her out on some of her behavior. He was charming but, IM(U)O, not nearly as smug and smarmy as some other allegedly 'charming' characters on the show. And I just felt like Jason and Lorelai had this genuine and natural rapport. In 'real life', I think I'd (unpopularly!) argue that she'd have a much better, happier relationship with Jason than Luke, and I would have had fun watching these two witty weirdos make their way through various outside challenges---especially if the actors had developed a bit more romantic chemistry. Since Luke was the clear 'end game' from the beginning, though, I wish Jason had been introduced from the beginning as a Gilmore cousin who popped up a few times per season.

 

Jason and possibly pre-S7 Marty are actually the only GG males I could ever see myself connecting with and potentially dating in real life. I shudder to think of what that UO says about me and my taste in men...and/or AS-P's general ability to write male characters ;)  

Edited March 3, 2016 by amensisterfriend

[Guest]

I felt that the Jason era was a period of time where Lorelai was extremely focused on her career with the building of the Dragonfly, and Jason (appearing to be very career driven as well) suited her extremely well for that time period. I think they had a lot of growing up experiences in common, and that helped as well.  His quirks matched her quirks.  The bed thing was an example, but it didn't bother me.  Had he been like "Okay, thanks for the sex. Time for you to go!" that would have been problematic. Instead, he had prepared a place for her to use.  (Yes, I can see why it would have been better to discuss things before hand, but again.... quirky and flawed.)  He wanted to get involved with her life from the Dragonfly to the town. He was respectful of the boundaries she put up even when he disagreed with them.  

 

In short, he was flawed but a good match for her, particularly at that point in her life.

[moonb]

I liked that Jason could banter and quip to the point of annoying even Lorelai - I'm thinking of A Family Matter, where he comes to Stars Hollow. It must have been a small dose of how she comes off to other people sometimes. He really was a funhouse mirror version of her.  Over the series as a whole, though, I much prefer Lorelai's minor relationships to the big romantic dramas.

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

I actually like the idea of most of the relationships on the show, the execution however was always lacking. No romantic relationship on this show felt completely right to me. I think romantic relationships just aren't something Amy is particularly interested in writing and it shows.

[AllyB]

I loved Jason too and agree he was Lorelai's best match on the show. Yes she and Christopher have fantastic physical chemistry but Jason and Lorelai seemed really easily happy together and I always felt they would have had a mostly very happy future as a couple.