One is the Loneliest Number: Unpopular GG Opinions

[dustylil]

Dean also respected Rory's ambitions to attend Harvard and become a journalist. He also didn't appear too pushy in the romance department - well, at least until Rory was in college ;)

 

Jess, on the other hand,  generally behaved like a jerk, stole from Lorelai's friends and made life difficult for Luke.  From her perspective, what was there to like about him? I must say I thought it was to her credit that once Jess and Rory decided to date, she didn't put any obstacles in their way

 .

[Gilmorefan]

I guess I just thought Lorelai would be more sympathetic to him, because she would have realized that Jess's mom didn't want him, or didn't want to put up with him, and maybe she could have related to that.

Those are valid points about why Lorelai liked Dean, but eventually she should have realized that she was more invested in the relationship then Rory actually was, lol.

[dustylil]

Perhaps a part of Lorelai was thinking that when she was the same age as Jess, she was out working, supporting herself and her child so he should just buck up. As well from what I recall, she was always appreciative of the opportunity Mia gave her to start a new life in Stars Hollow. Jess started out whiny and complaining and pretty much stayed that way around most of the townies.

 

Lorelai certainly had problems with her own mother but they were not the same as those of Liz and Jess. Emily was overbearing and controlling, wanting Lorelai to meet her exacting standards of upper class girlhood. But for all her faults, Emily loved and cared about her child. I don't believe the same could be said about Liz and her son.

 

As well, I don't think Lorelai had a full understanding of what a lousy mother Liz truly was until much later on. Who would tell her? I was glad though that Lorelai did tell the deluded Luke that Jess knew he was not welcome to return home for Christmas.

Edited October 19, 2015 by dustylil

[SparedTurkey]

 

Did the authorities  really think that  the sight of an exhausted girl waddling down a hallway was going to inspire the female population of a school to think - "gee that looks like fun, maybe I should get knocked up too"?

That isn't even a thought relegated to the 60's or 70's. When I was in high school in the early 00's, my friend got pregnant. I was in a catholic school, with the uniform. Rather than either give my friend OR let her buy a bigger uniform, they made her wear casual clothes. For her whole pregnancy. Needless to say there was not a single person in the whole school that didn't know - and the younger kids just liked the idea of casual clothes (of course, my friend wasn't kicked out ONLY because her mum was on the board). Priorities in private schools can be really weird.

 

I always wondered if Lorelai was seeing Christopher in Jess (in his attitude or something) that made her wary of him. Obviously not status but intelligence, wit and attitude.

 

I understood that they had to get Emily/Lorelai back together after the re-wedding but they didn't do a good job. I cannot believe Lorelai would have spoken to her mum after pulling that stunt. I also reckon Emily should have apologised - at least once.

[Kohola3]

I understood that they had to get Emily/Lorelai back together after the re-wedding but they didn't do a good job.

 

I know, right?  One minute "you and me, we're through" and the next minute it's like nothing had ever happened.  The warp speed relationship flips made my head spin sometimes.

[readster]

I know, right?  One minute "you and me, we're through" and the next minute it's like nothing had ever happened.  The warp speed relationship flips made my head spin sometimes.

I agree, plus Emily still never saw what she did was wrong. I at times wish someone would have smacked her upside the head and gone: "Would you wake up!" Emily had this very sense of the world according to Emily Gilmore and God forbid you ever disagreed with it. 

[dustylil]

Emily did go to Luke and tell him that she recognized that Lorelai had chosen him. She also told him that she would no longer interfere in their relationship. A promise she kept. I thought that was quite a big step for Emily.

[Taryn74]

I guess I just thought Lorelai would be more sympathetic to him, because she would have realized that Jess's mom didn't want him, or didn't want to put up with him, and maybe she could have related to that.

 

The Jess/Liz discussion has made remember a fanwank of mine -- I think Liz was going into rehab when she sent Jess to stay with Luke, but she didn't want Luke to know so she kept the details of why she was sending Jess away very vague.  Jess knew, though, which is why he knew Luke was lying about Liz wanting Jess to come home for Christmas break, and is why he was willing to cut her a great deal of slack.

[Guest]

I think Lorelai was too hard on Jess in Nick and Nora.  Yes, he was disrespectful, but she acted like he was just hellspawn after some relatively minor back talk.  Given that she was probably a pretty sassy teen from what we saw, I thought she was very overdramatic about that.

[Taryn74]

I do too, deaja.  Yeah he stole a beer from her fridge, no excusing that, but he stood there enduring quite a bit of her condescending BS before snapped back at her.  I didn't think what he said was all that horrible, either.

 

I need to watch this show again soon so I can remember why I ever liked Lorelai, heh.  She gets on my nerves way more in retrospect than she does when I'm actually watching.

[dustylil]

Was there anything actually incorrect about what Lorelai said or thought about Jess? As far as I could tell, she was spot on about him. He was  way more screwed up than Luke knewt. I thought she  had a more accurate view of him than Uncle Oblivious.

That she continued to offer Luke help and support with Jess after his snide comments about her earlier decision-making skills was to her credit.

Edited October 19, 2015 by dustylil

[Guest]

Whether or not she was factually accurate when she talked to Luke about it, she was so annoyingly condescending to Jess and then got upset that she felt he didn't give her enough respect.  You don't take a surly kid like Jess, talk down to him, compare your gilded privileged upbringing to his messed up one as common ground, and then demand respect.  It just doesn't generally work. And then when it doesn't work to tell him you wish you had a pie to shove in his face? Very immature.

 

Also aside from that, unsolicited parenting advice is generally not well-received.  Lorelai herself didn't seem to appreciate it. I don't know what made her think Luke would.

[dustylil]

Given that Luke never hesitated to involve himself in Gllmore family matters (putting Dean in a headlock for apparently having the temerity to break up with Rory comes to mind), perhaps made Lorelai think she had an equal right to intrude in Danes family issues - providing input both as parent and as a formerly troubled teenager.

 

I think it was unfortunate that Luke didn't consult more with Lorelai. Given that Jess detested  attending Stars Hollow High School, she might have been able to suggest other options - such as the GED route - to Luke who for whatever reason was only focussed on conventional paths. Jess may well have straightened out in time but he certainly pretty much wasted his later high school years.

[amensisterfriend]

If the news of a Netflix revival is valid, my supremely UO is that even as a major fan of this show who owns all the DVDs, I kind of wish this weren't happening. Too much time has passed by now and there's too big a chance of making large portions of fans unhappy by definitively answering some questions that are better left to fanfics and our imaginations. So those who have been quite happy imagining Rory eventually reuniting with Jess, for example, might have the door slammed on that by finding out she's with Logan,  or vice versa...and even if she's single, I'm not sure there's anything about her life as a journalist, which i could never envision for her, that I necessarily want to see. And I personally have no interest in watching more of the uncomfortably chemistry-deficient, incompatible Luke/Lorelai pairing that we already saw a lot of on the actual show...at least I'm in the right thread to make such an unpopular confession :) And it will hurt not seeing Edward Hermann. And...I don't know. The whole concept just fails to appeal to me. If the show had ended just two or three years ago, I think I would have been a lot more on board. 

 

And for all the excitement about how this will allow AS-P to wrap up the series as she wanted to in the first place, I can't help but think people are forgetting that it was AS-P who was responsible for a whole lot of things over her last two seasons that people hated as much, if not more, than they did with what DR did in S7. 

 

 

 

That she continued to offer Luke help and support with Jess after his snide comments about her earlier decision-making skills was to her credit.

 

A cruel comment and one for which he never apologized...but then apologizing like an adult was never exactly Luke's forte. He generally preferred to sulk and rant and then just totally freeze people out before eventually deigning to talk to them again like he's doing them some sort of favor even when he was mostly in the wrong to begin with.

 

I enjoyed Jess's presence on the show for a variety of reasons and think his chemistry/connection with Rory was off the charts, but even I think that Lorelai was completely and totally justified in being anti-Jess. His behavior at Lorelai's house that first night---stealing a bottle of alcohol, making a gross comment about her and Luke and just generally being a mean, rude little jerk---would have been enough to put him on the "please don't date my daughter" list for nearly every parent I know. It might have helped if he had ever tried to apologized, but...like uncle, like nephew, I guess! And it's not like that first night was such an aberration---there's a lot about S2-S3 Jess that parents would all too justifiably object to. 

 

 

 

 

I need to watch this show again soon so I can remember why I ever liked Lorelai, heh.  She gets on my nerves way more in retrospect than she does when I'm actually watching.

 

I'm hoping this is the same for me, because everyone here makes such great points about the show's many (many, many, many!) problems that sometimes I honestly have trouble remembering why I fell so deeply in love with this show in the first place. I'm especially hoping to one day recall why I once liked Luke, at least as Lorelai's friend and Jess's uncle, because I've come to dislike the big lug for myriad reasons and know my enjoyment of the show and fandom would be higher if I could force myself to like him even a fraction as much as most of my fellow fans do! 

Edited October 19, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[JayInChicago]

I have trepidations about this mini series they've just announced. I am curious about it but kinda wish they weren't.

[Gilmorefan]

I'm excited. I know somehow I'll end up being disappointed, but I'll watch it eagerly if/when it comes out.

[Taryn74]

LOL add me to the 'Mini-series.........meh' pile. 

 

My daughter is over the moon though!

[Sara2009]

I think I'll be fine if I don't go in with specific expectations.

[timimouse]

I'm also torn on this mini-series business. I would watch it if it does come out but I think they should leave well enough alone.

[Anela]

It always bugs me when April's mother says that Luke hasn't had any long-term relationships. Lorelai was a long-term relationship, and didn't she have one with him herself? He doesn't really seem like a one-night-stand type of guy. And then there's Rachel. 

[dustylil]

I guess it may depend on one's definition of long-term relationship. If one means romances  lasting multiple years, then yes, Anna had a point. There was no one Luke was involved with consistently over that kind of time frame. His lengthy relationships with both Lorelai and Nicole involved breakups and reconciliations. And then of course breakups. 

 

His involvement with Anna lasted a matter of months to the best of my recollection. Seemingly Anna herself did not consider it a long term affair. If Liz was to be believed, those kinds of romances were typical of Luke. To her Luke was a serial monogamist.

 

Frankly, I am not sure how one could categorize his relationship with Rachel. He may well have been smitten with her for a number of years - up until Lorelai came along. Nevertheless that didn't stop him from seeing other women during that time, including Anna.

[Anela]

Well, he was with Lorelai for at least two school years (two years), and almost everyone knew about Rachel - which means that she was a significant part of his life for a while. They broke up briefly, after the wedding episode, but got back together. Anna was just so dismissive. 

Edited October 20, 2015 by Anela

[Watcher0363]

Well single moms like Anna and Lorelai can have such a victimize martyrdom complex. When it comes to their baby's daddy.

[amensisterfriend]

I'm so glad not to be alone at the 'meh on miniseries' table! Not that I won't end up watching it the day it comes out, of course ;) Though I might wait to hear if it's too Luke/Lorelai-centric, in which case I might not bother due to my unpopular irritation with them, and/or too heavy on characters like Dean. For all the fretting among fans re. whether Rory will end up with Logan or Jess (my money is on her choosing to remain single rather than clearly picking one over the other so that no shippers are too irate either way), I think it would be cruelly hilarious to depict Dean as her "endgame" :) 

 

And is it too early to take bets on whether Rory will be depicted as the most wildly successful superstar reporter in the entire country?! 

 

 

 

Well single moms like Anna and Lorelai can have such a victimize martyrdom complex. When it comes to their baby's daddy.

 

Actually, I don't think Lorelai blamed Christopher much at ALL for not being more involved in Rory's life. She actually blamed him less than nearly every fan does, which supports my UO that Lorelai actually preferred Christopher to parent only occasionally and from a comfortable distance...and acted accordingly at various points throughout the series. Chris was often weak, flighty, immature, etc., but I see that particular situation as a lot more complex than 'eeevil deadbeat Christopher turned his back on his daughter and is guilty of neglect.' It's easy to demonize Christopher or any other father in that situation, but the truth is usually more complicated. And, as I've said here before, I've known true "deadbeats"---Christopher has major flaws as a parent and human being, but he doesn't qualify.  

Edited October 20, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[dustylil]

asf, I am not sure why Christopher does not qualify as a deadbeat in that he did not financial support his elder daughter until she was in her twenties and provided her with little emotional sustenance otherwise, but this is an old argument.

 

I think Lorelai was damned however she viewed and treated Christopher.  If she accepted him for what he was and allowed Rory to develop a warm and positive opinion of him, she was condoning his deadbeatedness. Alternately, and this is a more Machiavellian tack, despite apparently regarding him with some fondness, she was quite happy for him to keep his distance and often disappoint her adored daughter - thereby allowing her to maintain and enjoy  all parental control. A third option would have been to pursue  support through the court system. Assuming she both had the resources (financial, time, emotional) to do so and that such support orders could be put in place, possibly tricky given that he apparently didn't work on a regular basis until Rory was in her early teens. 

 

Complicating all this were her parents, those exemplars of duty and personal responsibility, who had no problem with his limited involvement in Rory's life. I was always struck by the fact in the first episode of the series when Christopher was believed to be a successful businessman in California, neither Emily nor Richard asked Lorelai what he was contributing in the way of money to Rory attending Chilton. 

 

Choosing the first option - as millions of other parents had done before her - to me made the most practical sense given the circumstances, however much it offended my own sense of justice and morality ;)

 

Of course, however Lorelai  behaved (or schemed, if that is what she was up to), there was  little to prevent him from taking a more active or even surreptitious part in Rory's life. Perhaps visiting with her in her home  before she was in her mid teens. From what we saw Lorelai, showed no objection to this. Or knowing of her academic bent, he could  have set up a   college fund for her to be given to her when she completed high school. Unsurprisingly, he did nothing.

[Gilmorefan]

I don't really see Chris as a deadbeat either. Lorelai wouldn't have been as fond of him as she was if he had been one.

[dustylil]

With respect, Gilmorefan, I don't believe they have much to do with one another. Lorelai may well have been fond of Christopher because he gave her the person she loved most in the world. She would likely forgive him a great many things because of that. A great many parents - men and women - in those circumstances do.

That said, looking at him objectively, he certainly fits most of the criteria of a deadbeat. He may have been slightly more evolved than say a Jimmy Mariano - but not much.

[Nanrad]

There are plenty of deadbeat parents where the primary parent/caregiver isn't upset/mad at the other parent and, sometimes, overlook and/or are oblivious to how much a deadbeat parent the other parent is. 

 

IMO, Lorelei doesn't expect much from Christopher and just sees him as her childhood/best friend/guy who helped conceive Rory (her current best friend) that she doesn't think to define him in such a way.

 

But, the series does support that Chris is a deadbeat dad. Like, Lorelei has to tamper Rory's expectations so she's not disappointed? How is that not a deadbeat dad? A deadbeat dad can still be well meaning, but ultimately, deadbeat. Lorelei isn't keeping Rory from her dad or vice versa, but I do understand why she would want so much control over what happens between them. Christopher is the type of guy who thinks (thought) he can only parent if he's with the mother. He was all on board with getting married to Lorelei when they found out she was pregnant, and then left Lorelei to go back to Sherry because she was pregnant. We can say he was being old fashion, which could be part of it, but then Christopher tried to defend his lack of presence in Rory's life with the fact that Lorelei didn't want to marry him. His view on parenting somewhat changed with GiGi, which was because his hand was forced and he wouldn't flat out abandon a kid he's spent time with.

 

But, I can understand Lorelei's position with a guy who sees parenting as dependent on marital status with mother and/or optional. Besides offering to pay for college and books he didn't have money for, what has Christopher contributed to Rory's life. What events has he been apart of? What fond memories do they share of him being in her life? I mean, before HS/college--this was a guy who came into town every blue moon and I'm not sure if he even knew what their house looked like, but he's not a deadbeat father?

 

I'm willing to bet that Lorelei would've encouraged Christopher to be in Rory's life more if he showed the interest and behaved like someone who wanted to be a parent. Lorelei always made little small remarks about Christopher growing up in the series, such as her remark about his switching his bike for a family friendly car. Yes, she put all of her crap on him, but she even envisioned them being a family, I believe, once he got it together.

 

We also see that Christopher is all about himself. When Rory ignored him, he just assumed that Lorelei poisoned her--understandable yes, but did it also occurred to him that he broke the heart of his child's mother who was also her best friend as well. Christopher popped into their lives every few years. And, again, Lorelei was 99% responsible for raising Rory with no help from Christopher. Rory is smart and knows how much he mother struggled to provide for her, so why didn't Christopher take this into consideration???

 

I don't recall, and I could be wrong, about the series every mentioning Lorelei turning Christopher away or refusing his help--she refused marriage, which isn't the same as saying, "No, you can't be a parent to our child." But, if she did it's most likely because Christopher was doing what their parents thought was best, which wasn't best for Lorelei and their daughter, she believed. Both of them, Lorelei and Christopher, were miserable with their upbringings emotionally and Lorelei didn't want to subject Rory to that. 

 

In short: Christopher is a deadbeat. A charming deadbeat, but still a deadbeat. What's the point in Lorelei allowing Rory to get to know her dad, but telling Christopher, "You can look, but you can't be involved." She allowed his little visits, but she didn't expect much because he didn't express any signs of actually wanting to parent. What makes him a deadbeat is really because Rory doesn't expect much of him as a dad, which is pathetic. 

Edited October 22, 2015 by Nanrad

[desertflower]

It is very odd to me how much Emily and Richard championed Christopher throughout the series, given how little he was involved with Rory when she was young. You'd think they would've cooled off toward him. I guess to them he represented what could have been; Lorelai married to someone from their same social standing, happy family intact. To them she ruined it all by not getting married. But still, after a few years of him flaking out on Rory you would think they would change their opinion. But every time he comes around they fawn over him, and every time Lor dates him Emily is thrilled.

I wish they had revealed a little more about what happened to Christopher after Rory was born. I know Lorelai didn't want to get married but then what? Did they just break up? Did he take off and not come back because he was mad she didn't want to get married? I know they had that flashback episode that showed Lorelai leaving the note and moving out but I can't remember exactly if they explained what happened between Lor and Christopher.

[dustylil]

this was a guy who came into town every blue moon

 

Actually, no. The first time he came to Stars Hollow was when Rory was sixteen. Presumably, they previously saw one another when he was visiting Hartford.

[solotrek]

Given that Luke never hesitated to involve himself in Gllmore family matters (putting Dean in a headlock for apparently having the temerity to break up with Rory comes to mind), perhaps made Lorelai think she had an equal right to intrude in Danes family issues - providing input both as parent and as a formerly troubled teenager.

 

 

I thought there was a difference between the way Luke inserting himself into the Gilmore's life versus the way Lorelai inserted herself into Luke's life. Luke's involvement was more on the outside or even superficial. Helping fix up the house, telling them they had awful diets, mouthing off about Dean. In fact, as Dean pointed out, the entire TOWN was on him about the break up. Luke didn't really demand that much reciprocation. Lorelai was nosey, demanded information, and made herself the focal point of his life. "You're back together with Nicole, why wasn't I informed?" "You moved in with Nicole, well don't you know how that'll affect me?" "You took your awful nephew in, you're supposed to fulfill your obligations to me and Rory."

 

While I do think Luke should have consulted someone about Jess, I don't think Lorelai was necessarily the person. Her interactions with Jess were never successful and she clearly had already formed firm opinions about him pretty quickly. I'm also surprised that upon finding out about Jess' job at Wal-Mart and later his extra shifts, Luke didn't look into how Jess was doing in school. The kid was in danger of failing the year before.

[dustylil]

My comments were only in reference to parenting and related family issues when Jess first arrived, not the rest of the complex and somewhat problematic relationship of Luke and Lorelai.

And while it is true that the rest of the town may have thought badly of Dean after his break-up with Rory, I don't recall any other townie physically assaulting the boy ;)

I entirely agree that Luke should have solicited some advice and guidance about dealing with Jess, both at the start and during his entire stay in Stars Hollow. But who else was there that he trusted and was willing to talk to about private, family matters? Even years later, when he was trying to wrap his mind around becoming a father some twelve years after the fact, he only talked to Liz - an unlikely source of wise counsel at the best of times.

[readster]

It is very odd to me how much Emily and Richard championed Christopher throughout the series, given how little he was involved with Rory when she was young. You'd think they would've cooled off toward him. I guess to them he represented what could have been; Lorelai married to someone from their same social standing, happy family intact. To them she ruined it all by not getting married. But still, after a few years of him flaking out on Rory you would think they would change their opinion. But every time he comes around they fawn over him, and every time Lor dates him Emily is thrilled.

I wish they had revealed a little more about what happened to Christopher after Rory was born. I know Lorelai didn't want to get married but then what? Did they just break up? Did he take off and not come back because he was mad she didn't want to get married? I know they had that flashback episode that showed Lorelai leaving the note and moving out but I can't remember exactly if they explained what happened between Lor and Christopher.

 

  It was to the point of completely radicalness how much they both felt Christopher was the best for Lorelai. Emily got worst and there was moments especially after the reveal that Christopher had knocked up his girlfriend, that Richard pretty expressed he was tired of waiting for him. There just gets a point where you have to let things go. However, we know that both Emily and Lorelai had problems doing that. Something that really needs to be acknowledged if they are going to do the new Netflix mini series. They need to wrap things up to where its time to move on with things. I mean if I even get one argument that Chris should be involved still. I would knock Emily over. His daughter is in her 30s and his other one would be in her late teens by now. Not only has the ship sailed but it has been decommissioned and buried. 

[solotrek]

My comments were only in reference to parenting and related family issues when Jess first arrived, not the rest of the complex and somewhat problematic relationship of Luke and Lorelai...

But who else was there that he trusted and was willing to talk to about private, family matters? Even years later, when he was trying to wrap his mind around becoming a father some twelve years after the fact, he only talked to Liz - an unlikely source of wise counsel at the best of times.

 

The difference is, he went to Liz for advice. Lorelai started spouting off "parenting tips" as soon as Luke told her the situation, including basically saying it was wrong to take Jess in. And then after her first interaction with Jess she goes on about how Jess is troubled and has issues and that Jess has stormed off. Lorelai had obviously made a judgement and had shown that any advice she was or would in the future give about Jess would not be that helpful.  Liz had more or less turned her life around and more importantly she was someone who could listen without being completely judgmental.

[shron17]

It is very odd to me how much Emily and Richard championed Christopher throughout the series, given how little he was involved with Rory when she was young. You'd think they would've cooled off toward him.

 

 

First, since Emily and Richard weren't around Rory when she was young that much either I don't think they know how much Christopher was or wasn't involved.  And more importantly I think it was really important for Emily and also Richard to believe that when Lorelai moved out of their house she cut everyone out of her life, including Christopher, and that her independence and determination to take care of her daughter was so extreme that she wouldn't have accepted any kind of assistance even from him.  Remember in It Should Have Been Lorelai, Emily said "you pushed him away, you push everyone away."  Lorelai (and probably Christopher) know this isn't true and we know it isn't true, but it seems completely believable to me that Emily has doggedly believed this over the years and consistently refused to see anything that doesn't fit her perception. 

[dustylil]

But Luke did go to Lorelai for help shortly after the disastrous meet-and-greet dinner party, realizing he was out of his depth. And she was most supportive. His earlier insulting comments to her apparently forgotten.

I am not sure how pointing out that  Jess was troubled and had issues meant her advice would be less than helpful. Surely candor when dealing with a man like Luke  made more sense than candy-coating. Not that Luke actually did much to address the boy's real problems. He did however provide Jess with a positive male role model - no small thing, certainly. 

[readster]

 

Emily said "you pushed him away, you push everyone away."  Lorelai (and probably Christopher) know this isn't true and we know it isn't true, but it seems completely believable to me that Emily has doggedly believed this over the years and consistently refused to see anything that doesn't fit her perception.

 

  Sad to say I know someone in the family who is exactly like Emily. No matter the cold hard facts or anything, its the world according to them and everyone be damned if you try to prove them wrong. One of Emily's biggest flaws no one called her on, she viewed the world a certain way even when she was constantly hit over the head that things don't work that way. Or because you care about something doesn't mean someone else will just fall in love with it too. Emily was about appearance, the DAR and related things and if you didn't find any interest or knowledge of it. You were constantly having it thrown back in your face. Emily did it to Richard a couple of times too. She could be so downright hateful and stubborn, I'm surprised if a doctor told her she had a fatal brain tumor and needed to be operated on. She wouldn't go: "Don't you even think about shaving my head!" "I rather drool then have any type of scar on my head."

Edited October 21, 2015 by readster

[solotrek]

But Luke did go to Lorelai for help shortly after the disastrous meet-and-greet dinner party, realizing he was out of his depth. And she was most supportive. His earlier insulting comments to her apparently forgotten.

I am not sure how pointing out that  Jess was troubled and had issues meant her advice would be less than helpful. Surely candor when dealing with a man like Luke  made more sense than candy-coating. Not that Luke actually did much to address the boy's real problems. He did however provide Jess with a positive male role model - no small thing, certainly. 

I think what I'm saying is that Lorelai should have butt out until asked. Her judgement was raining down before it was needed, as it often does. And considering how often it comes down and how judgemental she can often can be (the issues I cited previously), I don't fault Luke. In real life regardless of how well intentioned they can be, those type of people can be tiring to deal with. And really, Luke was right. Lorelai had shitty judgement as a teenager, got lucky for the most part with Rory, and had her own major parenting issues when Rory deviated from the "angel" that Lorelai made her out to be. There was also need for candor instead of candy-coating when dealing with Lorelai. Luke's apology to Lorelai came in the form of food. Danishes if I recall correctly.

 

It's not like Luke couldn't see that Jess had issues. He also did try to address some of the problems. He bought everything possible to try to get Jess to stop smoking, forced him to help out around the diner, tried to get a tutor that he thought could get through to Jess, hid the car to make sure Jess went to school, tried to run Jimmy out of town. But it'd be impossible to force a complete attitude adjustment in someone like Jess. I'm puzzled about the truancy laws of Connecticut and what happened Jess' senior year in terms of Stars Hollow communicating with Luke. They called him in when Jess was almost failing the previous year,  but nothing when Jess skipped too much school/was failing out his senior year? Odd. That failing goes to both the school and Luke.

[dustylil]

I must say I strongly disagreed with how Luke handled the Jimmy Mariano visit - and his subsequent decision to raise the return-to school-or-get-out issue with Jess.

I am not sure why Luke thought he should have the right to unilaterally decide that Jess couldn't meet with his own father. He had no idea what the man wanted with Jess. Perhaps he was there to apologize for a lifetime of neglect and try to effect a reconciliation. Or, more likely, of course, he was there to whine about his  hard life and wanted to borrow money. In any event, Jess was legally an adult and it should have been his choice as to whether or not to see the man. It wasn't as if he was in the midst of final exams and such a matter could impact on his grades and school year. That ship, unfortunately, had sailed.  If Luke wanted  him to behave more responsibly and act like a grownup, then he should have treated his nephew like one and not kept such a large, possibly life-changing secret, from him. I never cared for Jess - the whiny, little putz - but I felt badly for him then.

 

Then when Jess was still reeling over his father's visit, Luke decided to address the failing to graduate  issue. There was no doubt that Jess had broken his word about attending and completing courses, but why raise the matter right then? Luke expected others to allow him to "process" when dealing with emotional matters, why didn't he give Jess the same courtesy? The new school year was months away. No immediate decision as to re-enrolment was needed. Luke could have waited a few days until Jess had time to calm down after seeing his father, but for some reason didn't. Instead he presented Jess with an ultimatum - return to Stars Hollow High School (no other educational options were considered) or leave. Given his emotional state, unsurprisingly Jess decided to leave.

[solotrek]

I do agree that Luke escalating things was wrong. But as his guardian at the time, he had every right to try to keep unsavory people out of Jess' life, including the man who abandoned him at birth. You can expect someone to act like an adult, as well as trying to shelter them from potential hardships.

I think everything involved with Jess failing out was dumb.

Edited October 21, 2015 by solotrek

[readster]

 

I'm puzzled about the truancy laws of Connecticut and what happened Jess' senior year in terms of Stars Hollow communicating with Luke. They called him in when Jess was almost failing the previous year,  but nothing when Jess skipped too much school/was failing out his senior year? Odd. That failing goes to both the school and Luke.

 

  I just call it: AS-P wanted her spin off show and wanted to make sure the plot fit the genius of making her new show. No matter how many times I view the season. There is no way Jess could have gotten that far with failing before he was called into the office or Luke not knowing. Same goes for him working at Walmart because working at Walmart is so awesome to get money and 10% discount that the manager wouldn't have realized the conflict of schedule with Jess. Also, Jess's attitude about it was nothing to worry about since it was all "Mickey Mouse" stuff. Jess was really clueless to how completely high school was and his motivation was simply, he didn't want to do it. Plus, with Luke's push to get Jess to either fly straight or get out was a bit too much too. In fact, there could have been the GED option. But like I said, it was what AS-P wanted to get Milo on her super awesome new show that was never approved.

[John Potts]

solotrek I think what I'm saying is that Lorelai should have butt out until asked.

 

Well, that was always something she had trouble doing (like her mother and grandmother before her, in fact): I thought she was a bit too high & mighty about her "Welcome to Stars Hollow" dinner she arranged for Jess. While he was a jerk about it, he was quite correct that he hadn't been asked and didn't want it in the first place. Though he was definitely my least favourite of Rory's boyfriends (other than when they bumped into each other in that bookshop in S7(?), when he seemed to have grown up a bit), I was with him on that point.

[DisneyBoy]

This always bothered me too! Stars Hollow had maybe 10,000 people? How could there possibly be more foreign languages spoken there than in NYC. Lazy writing.

I took it as Jess very clearly complaining for the sake of complaining. I actually love that line because he's being kind of cute but at the same time being a total punk.

[dustylil]

I think I would have been more impressed if Charm Boy had complained about the curriculum or the apparent quality of the teachers rather than the ethnic make-up of the student body. What with him being smarter than everyone else and all.

[takalotti]

We're talking about the Pledge of Allegiance comment in N&N,S&N, right?

Perhaps I'm being naive, but I didn't think SHHS said the PoA in multiple languages due to student diversity. With how kooky the town is, I could see some language teacher thinking it would be neat to do it in another language just as a learning/horizon-broadening experience. And then another got added and so on because these people are weird.

I guess I assumed that because it makes more sense for Jess to be complaining about the kook rather than the diversity.

[readster]

 

I guess I assumed that because it makes more sense for Jess to be complaining about the kook rather than the diversity.

I agree with that because as weird as SHHS apparently was, how they can speak more languages than in the city really was stretching things. Now, a teacher doing it in every language because they wanted to teach diversity, that makes plenty of sense. The problem is, the more you look at the first four seasons, the more SHHS comes across as a school that in this day and age would be shut down from not following common core, having students skip and never notifying parents/guardians. Having sports programs that do great one year but then fizzle out because their seniors graduate and the coaches never play anyone up from the younger grades. Plus, the principals waits until two weeks before the school year is over to tell you that you are failing and will have to repeat. Of course, this is where people like Taylor can control the entire town and everyone does it when he doesn't do anything close to what a Selectman really does. Not to mention Kirk's endless jobs and the nightmare of tax filing he would have to do.

[Gilmorefan]

Maybe Jess was just exaggerating

[dustylil]

Bu why would he think it kooky, though?  As a recent resident of New York City, one of the most ethnically diverse cities on the planet, he would have been used to  hearing different languages, even in  school, would he not? As well, I would think less than ten tongues would barely register, let alone be a subject of exaggeration for him.

 

Other than being puzzled at Jess' reaction to the Pledge of Allegiance matter, I remember being mildly amused at the "six languages". Where I live - to the north and west of Stars Hollow - 140 languages and dialects are spoken.

[JayInChicago]

IMUP, that is the stupidest line in the whole series.  I hope some writer was fired for that blunder. but they probably weren't.

[DisneyBoy]

As I was saying, I'm pretty sure Jess was just being a wise-ass.

Edited October 27, 2015 by DisneyBoy