One is the Loneliest Number: Unpopular GG Opinions

[brightside]

I agree Melancholy, 100%. 

[Guest]

Okay, it's getting a little heated in here. 

 

It is okay to have some debate on the opinions - it's fun to see why people think what they think.  However, once you have made your point, please move on.  People likely aren't going to come around to your opinion - and that's okay! This is the unpopular opinion thread.  We all have varying opinions and that is what makes our discussions so much fun.

 

I'm not saying we need to turn this thread into an echo chamber, but let's please tone the disagreements down a few notches.  

 

Thank you!

[DisneyBoy]

I have an UO! And I might have already stated it!

 

I like Liz. And I definitely wanted to see more of her and Lorelai interacting, her house, her relationship with Jess and with Luke...heck, did Liz ever get a scene with April?

 

I know she would often be written as uber annoying, but I think the actress made her really human and likeable. Remember that scene with Luke telling her about April's existence? That was some good Liz.

 

If anything, I think we got too much TJ in Season 6 and everyone got burned out on them both.

Edited February 24, 2016 by DisneyBoy

[HeySandyStrange]

 

I like Liz. And I definitely wanted to see more of her and Lorelai interacting, her house, her relationship with Jess and with Luke...heck, did Liz ever get a scene with April?

 

Liz didn't seem so terrible to me either. I was expecting some drugged and or/ boozed up, over the hill wild child and Liz ended up being pretty tame. Irresponsible and a big ditz, yes she was, but she really wasn't some out of control monster. She seemed pretty loving towards Jess and Luke, not that that made her a great mother or sister, but I can't see her as being abusive or extremely neglectful towards Jess.  She and even TJ were kind of endearing to me.

[Taryn74]

Liz didn't seem so terrible to me either. I was expecting some drugged and or/ boozed up, over the hill wild child and Liz ended up being pretty tame. Irresponsible and a big ditz, yes she was, but she really wasn't some out of control monster. She seemed pretty loving towards Jess and Luke, not that that made her a great mother or sister, but I can't see her as being abusive or extremely neglectful towards Jess.  She and even TJ were kind of endearing to me.

 

Agreed.  TJ was annoying, sure, but only to a degree IMO and he truly, sincerely, loved his wife and made an effort to be a real partner in his marriage and I'm always going to give a guy points for that.  And I'm one of the (very) few who believes Liz was actually a good mother, and her sending Jess to Luke was not her "giving up" but rather her doing what she genuinely believed was best for her son.  It takes a hell of a lot of guts to admit you're not the best thing for your kid.  I admire her for stepping up and doing what she thought was best.

[JayInChicago]

I always wondered if they wanted to write Liz as an out of control drug addict but couldn't because of it (GG) being family friendly fare.

So instead they made her ditzy and selfish but kind of silly and bland.

[dustylil]

The recent discussion of Logan and his woes reminded me of another opinion I have long held. However, I have no idea if it is unpopular. I confess that I have never really seen much similarity in Logan and Lorelai when they were in their teens. They were disenchanted with their parents? That describes  quite a few of the characters we met in the show. In addition to Logan and Lorelai, we had Christopher, Jason, Lane, Jess and Liz.  And Lorelai's life  was so totally upended when she was fifteen, that with the possible (but  in my view, dubious) exception of Christopher, no one else had quite the teenage years that she had.

 

I did however see commonalities  in Lane and Logan by the time they finished high school.  Of course, they had very different social and economic backgrounds. But both were alienated from their respective families and unhappy with  the expectations their parents had for them. Neither had formulated any real plans for the future. While it is true Lane wanted  to pursue a career in rock and roll, she didn't do much about it. She continued to live in her small Connecticut town and play in her band from high school. Neither Lane nor Logan had the gumption to strike out on their own. Both were  willing to going to college on their parents' dime  but neither was all that serious about their education. Had Lane not been caught out by her mother, she would likely have drifted along at her college - just as Logan did.

[txhorns79]

While it is true Lane wanted  to pursue a career in rock and roll, she didn't do much about it. She continued to live in her small Connecticut town and play in her band from high school.

 

Didn't we see the band getting professional gigs, and slowly working their way through smaller to slightly bigger venues?  Didn't we also see them getting interest from industry people until Zach bombed at their performance?  My understanding is that up until Zach screwed them over, they were doing exactly what most bands do, i.e. start in small venues and work their way up over a period of years, or even decades.  For example, No Doubt began as a high school band that stuck together for nearly a decade before they first broke through on a national level after suffering a number of setbacks.  I guess I just don't understand what it was you wanted to see Lane do in particular to show she was pursuing her career in music?  If you could explain exactly what you wanted to see Lane doing, that would be helpful. 

Edited February 25, 2016 by txhorns79

[shron17]

While it is true Lane wanted  to pursue a career in rock and roll, she didn't do much about it. She continued to live in her small Connecticut town and play in her band from high school.

But Lane did learn to play the drums against all odds and advertised for and successfully found a band to play with.  She was also the one pushing to keep the band together after Dave left and again when they needed to move forward at the end of season 5.  Not to mention everything txhorns79 mentions.  We didn't see Logan do anything nearly that focused (at least until he graduated), unless you count sinking yachts, pulling pranks and the Life and Death Brigade.

 

That said, I completely agree that Lorelai and Logan don't have that much in common beyond coming from a similar background.  I found it very annoying in season 7 when Logan tried to draw a parallel.  Lorelai was already successful on her own away from her parents at a much younger age than when Logan struck out on his own.

Edited February 25, 2016 by shron17

[txhorns79]

But Lane did learn to play the drums against all odds and advertised for and successfully found a band to play with.  She was also the one pushing to keep the band together after Dave left and again when they needed to move forward at the end of season 5.  Not to mention everything txhorns79 mentions.

 

Very true.  Sometimes I think the characters are held up to standards that very few real people could meet, much less fictional ones.  I remember that someone had offered the opinion a while back that Lane should be criticized because she wasn't respectful enough of her mother, and now we are at the other end where Lane is faulted because she didn't defy her mother and move out sooner, along with taking undefined steps to further her music career.  Don't get me wrong, I love the discussion, I just continue to be surprised at the places it goes!  

 

I think my unpopular opinion (or maybe popular opinion) would be that I thought they never really ever justified Lorelai's decision to run away from home with Rory.  I thought Emily and Richard could be controlling and sometimes very wrong headed and awful, but I never saw them doing anything that would justify a teenager leaving home permanently with a toddler. 

Edited February 25, 2016 by txhorns79

[Minu49]

Oh absolutely txhorns! I know Lorelai exaggerates and embellishes but seriously you would think Emily and Richard kept her in a gulag or concentration camp from her stories!!! I do think Lore lived for the drama and she really enjoyed the rollercoaster ride with her parents. I have a friend who is like this, much given to hyperbole and drama and her relationship with her own mother was fraught with tension, partly because she didn't like dull moments hehe.

 

Sorry but my UO is I absolutely dislike Luke from season 3 onwards. His menacing looks played for effect, his rage and temper tantrums, plus that unshaven slovenly look he sported most of the time really put me off. This morning I was watching Jews and Chinese Food and So Good Talk, he actually threw two paying customers out of the diner presumably because they asked to be seated and served!!! The nerve of the customers expecting service, poor Luke couldn't process his break-up with Lorelai or worse he couldn't say one word to Emily about the meddling so he takes it out on his customers by physically assaulting them for no reason. How did he ever not get sued?

 

And I realized that I detected a pattern there....he usually goes for the males whenever he has problems with his females....when Nicole cheated on him he socked the sock guy:-), when Lorelai slept with Chris, he went up all the way to Chris' flat to punch him, he put Dean in a headlock when he broke up with precious and he started raving and ranting at Logan when they were caught in flagrante delicto! It's like he cannot communicate at all with any of the women but he can only punch and kick men. Gosh I hate that side of Luke, absolutely hate that he became a simian on steroids when upset with his girlfriend/wife/ersatz daughter etc.

 

 

[solotrek]

Also Lane was basically the manager of the band as well, and that band was filled with man-childs. Honestly, if the whole band thing does end up falling to pieces and she doesn't want to drum anymore ever, I can see her being a band manager. Provided she's not in a relationship with someone in the band she manages who will end up throwing a massive jealous temper tantrum on stage. Because what the hell Zach?

[dustylil]

We didn't see Logan do anything nearly that focused (at least until he graduated)

 

We were told by Doyle - no less - that Logan was a good writer. That usually takes both talent and focus.

[shron17]

DOYLE [stands]: Now I'm Logan's journalistic Godfather, and I can't even get the punk to show up, never mind write a story.

RORY: Do you even know if he can write?

DOYLE: Oh, he can write. He's actually an excellent writer. How's that for God giving with both hands, huh? Every now and then, usually when he gets the flu or the clap, and can't party, he'll throw us a bone and write something. It's always good. Damn good. Stupid bastard.

I don't know, that conversation doesn't make him sound very focused.  It takes a lot more focus and discipline to learn to play an instrument than write an article, especially if you happen to be Mitchum Huntzberger's son.

[dustylil]

I was suggesting that the writing process that made him "an excellent writer" required both talent and focus. Not that he was applying those capabilities on an ongoing or  regular basis. Clearly he was not doing that.

 

And yes, it does take more focus and discipline to learn to play an instrument than write an article (well, with the possible exception of

the triangle).But in my earlier post, I was commenting on Lane and Logan after high school and what they were doing or not doing. Lane was already a proficient drummer at that  point in time. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't recall her taking up another instrument, learning music composition or in any other way, broadening her musicianship - beyond practicing with her existing band.

[amensisterfriend]

The Logan conversation reminded me of a more general UO I have: I actually kind of hate how GG depicted socioeconomic issues in general. I admire the show for being among the few to even attempt to tackle those issues, so...credit for effort, I guess?! But the execution was often so cringe inducing that I'd have preferred they didn't bother. There was just so little nuance and so much exaggeration...as is typical of AS-P, come to think of it :) I just feel like all 'rich' characters were so overly, borderline ridiculously imperious, snotty, entitled, spoiled, arrogant, etc., and literally all of the show's wealthy parents were emotionally distant/unable or unwilling to connect with the kids while having insanely high expectations of them. Is that true of some wealthy parents? Of course---it's true of some parents irrespective of how much money they have. But the show just often reverted to this 'all people with money are THIS way, while all who don't have as much money are THAT way..." thing that felt so lazy to me.

 

The sharp class distinctions drawn on the show often seemed more reflective of Regency era England than contemporary America :) I grew up in a northeastern town with a lot of wealthy people (and a fair number of decidedly non-wealthy people...like yours truly!), and while a couple of families LOOSELY met AS-P's ideas of how 'people of privilege' are apt to conduct themselves, a lot of the wealthy people I knew were humble, hardworking, down-to-earth, close to their kids, etc., and just generally not defined solely or even primarily by how much money they and/or their parents happened to have. (This obviously isn't to say 'yay rich people! Rich people are awesome!' Just that they're PEOPLE, not all of whom have the exact same strengths and flaws and ways of raising their children.) More to the point, there just wasn't this dramatic division between the haves and the have nots when socializing, banding together for certain causes, etc.---and the issues that did exist were far more subtle (and therefore more resonant and interesting IMO) than anything AS-P depicted. Maybe there are far more Gilmores/Huntzberegers/Haydens/whoever-the-hell-gave-birth-to-Colin-and-Finn families out there, but with AS-P it all just feels so broadly drawn and overly exaggerated. 

 

But even worse for me is her sloppy depiction of middle class/working class/etc. There was something not just wholly unrealistic but actually obnoxious in trying to convince us that Lorelai and Rory were so, like, down with the people who were grappling with super relatable financial issues by having them give lip service to it an average of one episode per season when 1) Lorelai and Rory have NUMEROUS people in their lives who were always eager and willing to give them as much money as they could ever possibly want at any time and probably would never even expect any of it back---Richard and Emily, Christopher at certain points in the series, Trix, Logan, and even Luke. (Because in AS-P's world, Luke, despite supposedly being as blue collar/middle class as they come, has a serious TON of money on hand to lend/give to friends for a variety of reasons...don't we all?!) 2) Lorelai and Rory have endless outfits that cost more than my car, eat out 2-3 meals a day (and their meals are, like, HUGE!) and just generally lead lifestyles that don't seem hampered by any financial constraints at all, etc., 3) Pretty much NONE of their dreams or even their most minor plans were ever derailed by pragmatic financial concerns, and how many of those of us who really are middle/working class can say THAT?! 

 

I love when Paris points out that Rory only held that card swiping job for about a day. Whenever the show tried to trot out the narrative about how comparatively deprived, 'economically challenged' Rory never had anything come easily to her, I seriously wince and cringe and start pressing that fast forward button! 

[solotrek]

I think it does take focus to write an article, but not as much focus as it would take to consistently put out articles. Rory and Paris for example were focused on their end goals, thus were putting in a lot of effort into what they were out putting. Logan couldn't give a shit, but when he felt like it, could focus and do something. Just not at a consistent basis.

[FictionLover]

Sorry but my UO is I absolutely dislike Luke from season 3 onwards. His menacing looks played for effect, his rage and temper tantrums, plus that unshaven slovenly look he sported most of the time really put me off. This morning I was watching Jews and Chinese Food and So Good Talk, he actually threw two paying customers out of the diner presumably because they asked to be seated and served!!! The nerve of the customers expecting service, poor Luke couldn't process his break-up with Lorelai or worse he couldn't say one word to Emily about the meddling so he takes it out on his customers by physically assaulting them for no reason. How did he ever not get sued?

 

Just wondering what made you change your mind about Luke after season 3 since he was always that way? I am a L/L shipper but in all honestly, I do understand why some people don't like Luke.

[amensisterfriend]

Fiction Lover, I'm not Minu (obviously!), but I get where he/she is coming from, because I, too, found S1 Luke more palatable. You're totally right that he was always pessimistic, angry etc., but for me he used to have more positive traits to counterbalance that---he was a little warmer, quicker, wittier, smarter, more interested in things other than Lorelai, and somehow just came across as more sharp and gruff as a defense mechanism than as genuinely rage-y to me, (except when he put his hands on Dean to try to stop him from entering the diner, which I know some defend but which I find ridiculous on so many levels). He even smiled more! By later seasons (I'd argue as early as S2, though it got worse!), most of his positive traits beyond 'a couple of times a year he'll build or fix something to make up for what a temperamental, relentlessly unpleasant drag he is' were overshadowed by increasingly exaggerated, joy-squashing anger and somehow a more pervasive bitterness and jealousy. He just seemed increasingly one dimensional...and it's a dimension that a few of us disliked and thought made him particularly incompatible with Lorelai, though obviously we're in the minority :) 

Edited February 25, 2016 by amensisterfriend

[txhorns79]

But in my earlier post, I was commenting on Lane and Logan after high school and what they were doing or not doing. Lane was already a proficient drummer at that  point in time. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't recall her taking up another instrument, learning music composition or in any other way, broadening her musicianship - beyond practicing with her existing band.

 

I thought your comment was about Lane not doing anything with her music career because she was still living in a small town and playing with her band from high school.  I thought her role within the band expanded during her post-high school days when she mostly took over management type duties for the band.  I don't know why she would need to learn another instrument or start composing to grow as a musician or within her career. 

 

I think it does take focus to write an article, but not as much focus as it would take to consistently put out articles. Rory and Paris for example were focused on their end goals, thus were putting in a lot of effort into what they were out putting. Logan couldn't give a shit, but when he felt like it, could focus and do something. Just not at a consistent basis.

 

Yeah.  I think Logan intermittently cared.  I don't know how much credit he gets to take for that. 

Edited February 25, 2016 by txhorns79

[HeySandyStrange]

 

The Logan conversation reminded me of a more general UO I have: I actually kind of hate how GG depicted socioeconomic issues in general. I admire the show for being among the few to even attempt to tackle those issues, so...credit for effort, I guess?! But the execution was often so cringe inducing that I'd have preferred they didn't bother. There was just so little nuance and so much exaggeration...as is typical of AS-P, come to think of it :)

 

It would've been nice to see one example of a rich family that wasn't totally snooty, obnoxious, and dysfunctional. Even as someone who grew up squarely middle-class I thought the depiction of the rich on GG  ( and the different socioeconomic classes in general) was often comical in a bad way. My secret desire was to, just once, see Emily get a dressing down from a fellow rich society matron for the way she treated her workers and others in the service industry, to show that being rich didn't automatically equate to being arrogant and petty. But for whatever her talents as a writer, ASP could be as cliche ridden as the next hack.

 

As for liking Luke less as the show went on...imho, almost all the characters became less likable after the first few seasons. Luke became more angry, Lorelai was increasingly more obnoxious and self-centered, Rory also became more self-centered and spoiled,  Sookie was shriller and flippant about others, Em&Rich became almost a parody of the snooty rich, and so on and so forth. I think someone here once said that, for whatever faults it had, the first season had the most layered depictions of most of the characters, and I tend to agree.  I do wish we got to keep a little more of first season Luke, the one who seemed intelligent and opinionated on different subjects. But again that goes with ASP's weaknesses as a writer, imo. In the GG world, you can't be interested in things like camping, fishing, working with your hands, makeup and clothes and still be well-read and interested in intellectual pursuits. The GG writers did like putting many of the characters into boxes and not letting them out.

[readster]

 

In the GG world, you can't be interested in things like camping, fishing, working with your hands, makeup and clothes and still be well-read and interested in intellectual pursuits. The GG writers did like putting many of the characters into boxes and not letting them out.

I completely agree, it was like Kirk, the man who had to have a different job every episode or had to be doing something more out laddish than Tylor at times. Looking the first two season, I thought Sean Gunn did a great job of blending the quirkiness of Kirk very well. Well timing and almost bringing a: "I can relate to Kirk." Instead of the strange, scary "I want to be like Taylor" running down the stairs naked from night terrors he later became. I remember when he was the postman in one episode talking how hard the test was and being one of the many jobs he actually felt he accomplished in doing. Next thing you know, he's a notarizer, becoming a real-estate agent (almost as hard as being a postman) and I just can't put myself as seeing him as Tevye in Fiddler on the Roof when he is the only adult with a set of 1-5 graders? It comes off not cute, but all kinds of wrong, or asking for permission to use the bathroom when his girlfriend giving permission since she's a teacher at the school. It just comes across as wrong in all the scenes. There are moments I just see Sean Gunn going: "Why am I doing this?" 

[amensisterfriend]

Yeah.  I think Logan intermittently cared.

 

Ha---very true. I think one of my favorite little Logan moments is when he reveals how much he cared about his ethics paper in S5...he's, like, a closet carer of things other than booze and women, though lord knows I wish they had shown us a lot more of that and a lot less of the partying and IQ-lowering exchanges with Colin and Finn :) 

 

 

 

As for liking Luke less as the show went on...imho, almost all the characters became less likable after the first few seasons

 

Oh, absolutely---I limited my response to Luke only because the original post had been about him, but you're definitely right that nearly every character fell prey to AS-P's dubious 'minimize strengths, exaggerate flaws in the name of being super QUIRKY and creating more conflict!' tactic :)  My related UO is that I honestly found the majority of GG characters much more likable in the widely disliked S7 than they had been through S5 and S6 or maybe even S4...though I'm obviously not putting the egregiously assassinated Marty in that category :) S7 had some major issues, but DR (usually) made Rory, Luke, Richard, Zach, Logan and more more likable to me than they had been for at least the last couple of seasons of AS-P's reign. 

Edited February 25, 2016 by amensisterfriend

[solotrek]

But in my earlier post, I was commenting on Lane and Logan after high school and what they were doing or not doing. Lane was already a proficient drummer at that  point in time. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't recall her taking up another instrument, learning music composition or in any other way, broadening her musicianship - beyond practicing with her existing band.

With respect, her goal was to achieve success with her band, which she might have had Zach not melted down on stage. In that aspect of being a musician, she was doing everything correct. Getting as many gigs as possible and playing all the local spots and even going on a tour. Someone from my high school ended up getting significantly more famous than Hep Alien and this was how he and his band got started. Except with more drugs, alcohol, arrogance, and elicit behavior. 

 

As for other instruments she played trumpet in high school in the marching band. I'm a woodwind and piano so I have a lot of shit to say towards the other sections (it's a band geek/orch dork thing), but trumpet is not an easy instrument to learn and play. Nor is a drum set, which she self taught right before joining the band; and that is pretty damn impressive. So she did broaden her musicianship a lot prior to joining the band.

 

In terms of musical composition, we never saw if she took a composition class or not. For all we know, she took AP Music Theory in high school. I know my high school AP Theory class covered enough information that I basically waltzed through my college music minor.

 

Aside from dropping the guys of Hep Alien and finding a new (less dysfunctional) band, there was little else Lane could have done in that area of things.

[txhorns79]

There are moments I just see Sean Gunn going: "Why am I doing this?"

 

And then the dump truck backs up and drops a ton of money on him! 

[readster]

And then the dump truck backs up and drops a ton of money on him! 

You got that right. Its funny, what I've seen Sean Gunn in since GG ended. While there are essence of Kirk in him still, he is completely different in the roles to where you almost forget he even played that character. He was the boss in The Giant Mechanical Man and wow. While there were moments, he walked a thin line between doing his job as a manager and being an asshole at times, but that was a good thing.

[dustylil]

Aside from dropping the guys of Hep Alien and finding a new (less dysfunctional) band, there was little else Lane could have done in that area of things

 

She could have left Stars Hollow,  moved to a larger community with a viable music scene and kept in touch with the guys in Hep Alien. I never could figure out what was keeping her in the town. Surely she could have found a job as a server elsewhere.

 

asf not disputing your view of the portrayal of the well-to-do, but  I can think of one parent and child relationship that seemed to work -

that of Trix and Richard

[Minu49]

Fictionlover, I think amensisterfriend has articulated much of my points very well, thanks asf! I will add my two cents...Well, for one he seemed to have no joy left, just rage, pure boiling anger. And he became one-time, always ranting at something or the other. It's not fun to watch, particularly repeat watches can drive u mad. Why do I subject myself to this lol? And throwing paying customers for expecting service from a diner....that's pushing it too far. He cannot run a business if his personal life bleeds into his profession and completely takes over. Or even in the Pippi episode, how awful he is to Dean but says nothing to princess Rory! Gah, he is such a wimp.

Yes, almost all the characters became more exaggerated after season 3 when they started to up their quirkiness quotient.

New UO: never liked Gypsy, I cannot even articulate why but I just don't but love Jackson. I liked his friendship with Lorelai, it was always such a delight to see them together. Love the sleeping with zucchini and the episode where he stays over with her and wears those quirky pjs. Lovely platonic relationship.

[themoon411]

I agree about the money aspect. I think the show did a bad job, with the exception of max, at portraying middle class. Where were the accountants, the nurses, the graphic designers, the teachers? Why was the choice be filthy rich business guy or settle for the blue collar life. Why did Rory HAVE to go to an ivy league school to be a success.  Couldn't the valid Victorian of her local hs go to a High ranking state school ( UT to name one), make awesome grades and then go to ivy league grad school. Or find intellectually stimulating jobs that paid the bills after her prestigious state school.

I think logan's mantra was work hard, play harder. Yale is a tough school and Logan never insinuated that he had bad grades or bought his grades. I think the partying and debauchery we saw was after he finished his hw.  Logan had limited screen and that time was used to showcase the differences between him and rory and not the similarities.

My uo is that rory and her mom weren't as close as the wanted us to believe. Yes when things were going well they were the best of friends, but at first sign of trouble their relationship seemed to fall apart. All night with dean, married dean, secretly dating max, dropping out of yale, all these things seemed to freeze their relationship. I'm not saying that fights aren't realistic, but an exceptionally close relationship should be able to handle it better. I've known parent child relationships that dealt with worse and handled it better.

Edited February 25, 2016 by themoon411

[amensisterfriend]

but I just don't but love Jackson

 

I don't either, so you're not alone :) For some reason I liked him much more when I first saw the show than I do now. He and Sookie share some sweet and amusing moments, but mostly he's become yet another example of a typical GG male for me, especially post-S1: moody, negative, temperamental, prone to complaining and ranting about every little thing, fairly lousy at communicating directly and maturely about anything that matters, etc. 

 

 

 

.Well, for one he seemed to have no joy left, just rage, pure boiling anger. And he became one-time, always ranting at something or the other. It's not fun to watch, particularly repeat watches can drive u mad. Why do I subject myself to this lol? And throwing paying customers for expecting service from a diner....that's pushing it too far. He cannot run a business if his personal life bleeds into his profession and completely takes over. Or even in the Pippi episode, how awful he is to Dean but says nothing to princess Rory! Gah, he is such a wimp.

 

THIS. It really does seem worse with rewatches somehow, and I find myself thinking 'If I find him insufferable and so depressing to be around as a viewer, how happy could Lorelai---or any other woman be---around this ragey, boring, tantrum-throwing grump 24/7?!' But then I recall that Lorelai and I have very different taste in men :) Lorelai, by the way, wouldn't be the world's easiest person to date, either..to say the least! I just don't think their particular strengths and (many, many, MANY!) flaws make them well-suited for each other. 

 

 

 

New UO: never liked Gypsy,

 

I think I may have a weird reverse gender bias when it comes to this show ;) Objectively, I know that Gypsy embodies a lot of the traits I dislike in so many of AS-P's male characters: she's rude, negative, seemingly intent on disliking almost everything and everyone for no particular reason, etc. But she actually works for me, and I find her really entertaining...maybe it's because she wasn't around nearly as much as the male characters I'm thinking of, and hence she didn't have enough screentime or storylines to annoy me :) 

Edited February 25, 2016 by amensisterfriend

[Minneapple]

2) Lorelai and Rory have endless outfits that cost more than my car, eat out 2-3 meals a day (and their meals are, like, HUGE!) and just generally lead lifestyles that don't seem hampered by any financial constraints at all, etc., 3) Pretty much NONE of their dreams or even their most minor plans were ever derailed by pragmatic financial concerns, and how many of those of us who really are middle/working class can say THAT?!

 

I think this is one of those things you just have to accept as part of fiction. I just read a piece today about romcoms set in New York and how the single women in those romcoms, who have regular jobs like paralegal, writer, etc., have these great apartments that they could never afford in real life. They also have fabulous clothes, eat out all the time, go on vacation, do quirky and fun things as hobbies, etc. This to me is part of the "escapism" of TV, or fiction in general. I actually enjoy drooling over the clothes I see on TV. Part of the reason I watch Elementary is for Joan Watson's wardrobe. which is honestly to die for. 

 

As for their dreams being hampered by financial concerns, at least Amy addressed it. Budget was a constant cause of concern for Lorelai when she was opening the Dragonfly. But Amy's plots about money always annoyed me anyway. Like the episode with the termites. She did horrible financial plots on Bunheads too. Just give me Rory in a Marc Jacobs skirt and Lorelai in her Diane von Furstenberg wrap dress and pretend like those things don't cost hundreds of dollars and I'm good.

[dustylil]

My secret desire was to, just once, see Emily get a dressing down from a fellow rich society matron for the way she treated her workers and others in the service industry, to show that being rich didn't automatically equate to being arrogant and petty

 

I did wonder why Emily didn't seem  to fear that her own staff  or other service workers might spit in her food - that seemed more likely to occur than the pilfering of  baubles :)

 

I dearly wished two things regarding Emily and her high falutin' ways -

1) that some friend of Shira (one similarly above Emily on the social ladder) took revenge on her for her caustic comments to Mrs. Huntzberger and gradually had her disinvited from prestigious organizations, clubs and committees - with Emily not grasping why she had  slid from society's higher ranks.

 

2) that Liz Danes joined the Hartford DAR.

[GreenScreenFX]

Emily would have them shanked and buried in her garden. Everyone knows that.

For every offender you mentioned.

Edited February 26, 2016 by GreenScreenFX

[Viqutorious]

I was so happy to stumble on this thread! I watched GG on Netflix, I never saw it when it was aired. I was relieved to see that others share my UO that Luke is a very difficult character to like or empathize with. He is always so angry, displeased, disappointed, grumpy and seems to have no sense of humor. I can't figure out why anyone would find that attractive, and why that character is considered a good match for Loralei. Granted she's no picnic but she is much more worldly.

My other UO:

Love Emily & Richard

Love Logan

Love Christopher

Love Paris

Loved Rachel for her short stay, she could have been a good friend to Loralei vs. dating Luke

I also have the UO that Scott Patterson is not a very talented actor, he overacts while ranting.

[solotrek]

I just read a piece today about romcoms set in New York and how the single women in those romcoms, who have regular jobs like paralegal, writer, etc., have these great apartments that they could never afford in real life.

 

I think NPR interviewed the guy who wrote that piece yesterday, because I heard that piece yesterday.

 

Loved Rachel for her short stay, she could have been a good friend to Loralei vs. dating Luke

 

If this is a UO, I'm right here with you. I thought Rachel could have been an interesting character with no real drawbacks. The only grounded and sane person in Stars Hollow for that matter.

 

Objectively, I know that Gypsy embodies a lot of the traits I dislike in so many of AS-P's male characters: she's rude, negative, seemingly intent on disliking almost everything and everyone for no particular reason, etc. But she actually works for me, and I find her really entertaining...maybe it's because she wasn't around nearly as much as the male characters I'm thinking of, and hence she didn't have enough screentime or storylines to annoy me :)

 

 

I agree, Gypsy would be a tiring character if she had more screentime. As it is, I don't hold strong feelings towards her.

She could have left Stars Hollow,  moved to a larger community with a viable music scene and kept in touch with the guys in Hep Alien. I never could figure out what was keeping her in the town. Surely she could have found a job as a server elsewhere.

 

There's a large difference between rent and cost of living in Stars Hollow vs NYC and she's within a decent travel distance to NYC (and Boston for that matter). Her server job at Luke's is going a lot further than in NYC. Plus because Luke is pretty relaxed about things, she probably has a significantly more flexible schedule than she would get anywhere else. Aside from not touring enough as a band and not even thinking of planning a tour without Mrs. Kim's help, Lane and her band match what I've seen with my friends/acquaintances. Feel free to PM me about this since I figure we're meandering away from UO territory.

Edited February 26, 2016 by solotrek

[amensisterfriend]

So I'll always hold the somewhat UO of loving and even relating to Rory, as you guys know, but I had to share this article with you all---it ties in so perfectly to the chat we had yesterday about how AS-P (poorly) depicted socioeconomic privilege and expected us to buy into Rory dealing with relatable 'middle class' struggles, etc.! 

 

http://www.bustle.com/articles/144139-rory-is-actually-the-worst-on-gilmore-girls-even-her-biggest-fans-have-to-admit

 

Disclaimer: Posting this does not imply that I agree with every single thing written here :) 

Edited February 26, 2016 by amensisterfriend

[solotrek]

Having never worked in her life (apart from that one day she spent volunteering), Rory moves in with Logan, and takes a sought-after internship at a company of her choosing. Money isn't an issue for Rory; she literally doesn't have to think about it.

 

So the article forgets that she had that "loser card swiping job" as wells as telling Headmaster Charleston that she worked in her mom's inn.

[amensisterfriend]

She had that card swiping job for about a day. I know people love to nitpick, but I have no problem with the article leaving that out.

[HeySandyStrange]

 

So I'll always hold the somewhat UO of loving and even relating to Rory,

 

I think that the Rory of the first few seasons was very relatable and likable, especially for all the shy, bookish, quiet teens out there that didn't care about popularity. It was great to see a girl, no less, who was all those things but wasn't considered a freak or weird But, as the article pointed out, things came so easy to Rory and yet we were supposed to believe she was the underdog when, at some point that clearly turned around for her and she wasn't. By the time she was in Yale she was no longer (if she ever was) the scrappy upstart from a small town that fought her way to the ivy leagues. and it felt disingenuous that they tried to act like she was.

[solotrek]

She had that card swiping job for about a day. I know people love to nitpick, but I have no problem with the article leaving that out.

She had it for a semester. It still counts. The fact that she thought it was beneath her to not do it again the next semester is the problem. I don't know about Yale, but those are the best campus jobs. You get to sit and study for the most part and they have normal hours. The only rule for ours was "no headphones" and I was only a few years behind Rory.

Edited February 26, 2016 by solotrek

[amensisterfriend]

She had it for a semester. It still counts

 

I don't think that's accurate, but I don't care enough to debate it. 

 

 I think that the Rory of the first few seasons was very relatable and likable, especially for all the shy, bookish, quiet teens out there that didn't care about popularity. It was great to see a girl, no less, who was all those things but wasn't considered a freak or weird But, as the article pointed out, things came so easy to Rory and yet we were supposed to believe she was the underdog when, at some point that clearly turned around for her and she wasn't. By the time she was in Yale she was no longer (if she ever was) the scrappy upstart from a small town that fought her way to the ivy leagues. and it felt disingenuous that they tried to act like she was.

 

EXACTLY! That was the point of the article, and even as a Rory fan, it's one with which I generally agree. 

Edited February 26, 2016 by amensisterfriend

[solotrek]

Rory in "Raincoats and Recipes" - So, I've been making out my résumé so I can try to get a summer job, because there is no way that I am going to swipe cafeteria cards again next year.

 

From Paris in "But Not as Cute as Pushkin" - I can't believe you. You don't even have your loser card-swiping job anymore and you're buying all this crap for some kid you don't even know.

 

Neither statement makes sense if Rory only had the job for a day.

[amensisterfriend]

So how did you deduce from the above quotes that she had it for a whole semester?! Eh, never mind...life is too short! 

Edited February 26, 2016 by amensisterfriend

[solotrek]

So how did you deduce from the above quotes that she had it for a whole semester?! Eh, never mind...life is too short! 

Because neither makes sense if it were a one day job. Just because it wasn't on screen doesn't mean it wasn't in existence.

 

Edit: Though I am happy we're in the one is the loneliest number page for this. The title makes more sense for this than UO.  Or I guess it could be a UO in general. But it sounds really dumb for me to say my UO is that she had that job for the semester.

Edited February 26, 2016 by solotrek

[dustylil]

Did that writer ever watch entire episodes of  the show or just those scenes directly involving Rory?

Lorelai did not leave home when she was pregnant with Rory. She gave birth to her daughter while still living with the senior Gilmores and they both continued to live with them for some time.

Nor was attending the FNDs the price that was agreed to for Richard and Emily  to pay for Chilton That was the interest on the loan. The principal also had to be repaid.

 

Also, while "scrappy upstart" is not a descriptor  I would use, I don't disagree with the sentiment behind it. At least for the first few years of the series. Rory did spend most of her childhood  living in an outbuilding on the grounds of an Inn. Yet by the time she was fifteen, she was able to gain entrance to a prestigious prep school. And ended up as valedictorian.

[themoon411]

I think scrappy start refers to more than economic status but also to home life. Loralie had a 1st class education, even if it was unfinished, and she certainly could appreciate the role and importance of education. As soon as rory showed an interest in any academic persuit, I'm sure loralie went out of her way to facilitate ways she could persue it. Most poor single mom's don't have a high regard for education and even if they did wouldn't have the knowledge of how to help the kid persue it. Your average run away teenager would be like, " oh your making a's at the local school, that's awesome" and the conversation would end there. I'm sure loralie played a big part of introducing the idea of chilton to rory and understanding the importance of that school. The under dog wouldn't have those advantages! Really the only disadvantage rory had was that she didn't start at the beggining of school year and that issue was quickly rectified!

[Melancholy]

Here's an UO. I think Rory was frequently called on her Yale/Chilton/Hartford Gilmore privilege. This author isn't being gutsy by pointing it out when it's a consistent theme and point of snark. 

 

LOGAN: What I'm a rich trust-fund kid. I'm not ashamed of it.

RORY: No and you shouldn't be. That's not what I meant. I mean, the point or the point I was trying to make was that people use connections to get ahead.

LOGAN: Oh give me a break, you act like making connections is something nefarious. It's just people meeting people.

RORY: Well, it's certain people meeting certain people. It's not like anyone's meeting Joe bus driver.

LOGAN: And you're Joe bus driver.

RORY: Well, no, but…

LOGAN: Exactly, I mean where do you get off acting all morally superior?

RORY: That is not what I intended to say at all.

LOGAN: You clearly think you are. Why? Because you read "Ironweed"? 'Cause you saw "Norma Rae"?

RORY: Logan…

LOGAN: Wake up Rory whether you like it or not, you're one of us. You went to prep school. You go to Yale. Your grandparents are building a whole damn astronomy building in your name.

RORY: That is different, okay? It's not like I live off a $5-million trust fund my parents set up for me.

LOGAN: Yeah well, you're not exactly paying rent, either.

 

-----------------

RORY: Oh, I am in no mood for this. We are depressed! [she stands up, her head out the sunroof of the limo.] We'll move when we move, so stop -

[Luke is honking at them. He stops, shocked.]

LUKE: Oh. Sorry.

RORY: I'm not usually in a limo. 

 

-------------------------

RORY: I'm not agitated. I.... So, I spent a night in jail. Big deal. So did Martin Luther King.

Dr.SHAPIRO: Are you comparing yourself with Martin Luther King?

 

------------------------

RORY: It's a nice offer Paris, but I can't. I'm not going back to school.

PARIS: You're pregnant.

RORY: NO!

PARIS: Sick? You look pasty.

RORY: I'm not sick.

PARIS: Well I know your National Guard unit didn't get called up, so what's the story.

----------------------

 

LORELAI: Okay. And then my mother will say, "Rory, your grandfather and I are paying for you to go to Yale. We are enabling you to have this rarefied education, and you're being ungrateful and small-minded, and I resent it. I am hurt on a level you will not be able to understand until you yourself have a daughter or a granddaughter who will cut your heart out the way you've just cut mine out, and I hope that small veneer of independence that you've extracted from this incident is worth the complete and total alienation of the grandparents who have done nothing but love you and thought of you only."

RORY: Or I could keep the furniture.

------------------

 

PARIS: Oh, sure, you're good. You're fine. After all, you have all this fancy furniture and a big TV to lord over people. It's the rest of us who are screwed - the ones whose grandparents hadn't thought to provide suck-up furniture.

 

I thought the series made silly ploys for *Lorelai* where we were supposed to just forget that she was born to a life of privilege giving her internal resources that most other 16-year old mothers don't, people throughout the series lined up to cut her huge breaks, and she didn't live according to an economic scale for mere mortals that demands economic compromises like cooking or careful ordering or limits on a clothing budget. However, especially when Rory got to Yale, she had entire plots of "How does this former down-to-earth small-town girl deal with becoming scion of the wealthy and powerful as she embarks on a rarefied education, more directly embraces her grandparent's resources and connections, and falls in with Yale's wealthiest students?" It was very clear that even among Yalies, Rory not only isn't Marty, she also isn't privileged but hardly Old Money gunners Doyle and Paris either.  

[dustylil]

people throughout the series lined up to cut her huge breaks

 

Other than Mia hiring her as maid and encouraging  her over the years, who else gave her breaks?

 

Getting back to that article for a moment, the writer indicated that it was unrealistic for Rory to have been accepted to  three Ivy League schools - Harvard, Princeton and Yale. This has always puzzled me - perhaps because I am a product of a different school system. But why wouldn't she gain admittance? Would  the entrance requirements for these elite universities be that different one from another, that entry to all would be highly unusual?

[GreenScreenFX]

If you get into Harvard ..... you get into not only Princeton, and Yale, but every school you could ever dream of.

Edited February 27, 2016 by GreenScreenFX

[brightside]

Getting into all of The Big Three is very very rare. Top students only get into one Ivy League school all the time, it's the norm. All of those schools are so selective and will be looking for different things in any given year, so the chances of getting offers from all three of them is minimal.

 

However, that doesn't mean it can't be done. There was a kid a few years ago you got offers form all 8 ivies. He had a 4.58 weighted GPA, took 15 AP courses, and achieved a 2260 out of 2400 on his SAT and a 34 out of 36 on his ACT. He was the senior-class president of his high school, a National Merit Scholar and National Achievement Scholar, and a state-recognized alto saxophone player, though. 

 

Without knowing Rory's SAT and ACT scores (although her PSAT scores were exceptional) and all of her activities, it's hard to say if her getting into all 3 is likely. But knowing that she was valedictorian at an elite prep school, student body vice president, on the newspaper staff and had a recommendation from the headmaster makes it believable enough to me. Not to mention that she was a legacy at both Yale and Princeton, technically.