One is the Loneliest Number: Unpopular GG Opinions

[JayInChicago]

By the way, my gf still thinks Lorelai has a raging personality disorder and is somewhat delusional and occasionally psychotic. I just thought y'all would like to know!

 

This is why we have headphones.

[amensisterfriend]

Ha! Jay, please assure her that I think at least 80% of SH suffers from a moderate to severe psychiatric disorder :) 

 

Oh, and I guess my very UO here is that as charming and energetic and fun as it could sometimes be, when it comes down to it I really don't think I would enjoy living in Stars Hollow! 

Edited May 13, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

I have another one. I think Rory should have been the one to sleep with a professor(unmarried!), instead of Paris. I think I would have found it way more interesting than Rory/Dean round 3. 

[amensisterfriend]

I think I would have found it way more interesting than Rory/Dean round 3.

 

I think I would have found watching paint dry more interesting than Rory/Dean Round 3...and, while we're at it, more interesting than Rory/Dean Rounds 1 and 2! :) 

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

It's really irritating that every single couple suffered from secrets and poor communication. I don't need healthy relationships necessarily, but give me some variety in the dysfunction. It's hard to argue for or against when they all have the same problems.

[HeySandyStrange]

By the way, my gf still thinks Lorelai has a raging personality disorder and is somewhat delusional and occasionally psychotic. I just thought y'all would like to know!

 

Not a totally unfair assessment on your gf part. My dear late father would sometimes watch GG with me, usually while waiting one of his favorites,  Veronica Mars to come on. He was totally annoyed by both girls and called Lor "the Ditz". Not unfair either, 'cause I think for all her good qualities Lorelai could be very ditzy and even shallow at times. Which is why I found it hard she would be able to sustain a long-term relationship with Max who was pretty scholarly.

 

Rory and a professor...I could have definitely gone for that one, if done well. Anything was better then sad Dean at that point.

[solotrek]

Just trying to imagine the episode where Emily asks Rory to bring her new boyfriend over for Friday Night dinner, and she brings Asher Flemming.

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

Just trying to imagine the episode where Emily asks Rory to bring her new boyfriend over for Friday Night dinner, and she brings Asher Flemming.

LOL! That's an image. I was thinking more along the lines of the TA she had a crush on, or slightly older. Someone she had intellectual things in common with that had a worldly edge to him.Just a dumb mistake that still could have lead into season five but without the callousness of adultery or the boredom of Dean.

[Anela]

The argument I always ran across for Marty/Rory was she needed to find her Luke, which, no she didn't. Her and Lorelai are very different personality wise, have very different life experiences. They are not the same person. Rory is more of a Luke, if anything. She needs someone to drag her out of herself a little. To experience things. And quite frankly Marty was a shockingly life-less character on a show full of passionate characters. Rory seems to be attracted to vibrant passionate people in all aspects of her life. 

 

I didn't know it was unpopular to love Brian! I thought he was adorable and he should have been the one Lane hooked up with instead of Zach. 

I also loved Brian! Marty was okay at first, but I couldn't see him with Rory.

[amensisterfriend]

Brian lovers unite! For a show that was in many ways one of the best EVER at celebrating a love of learning, reading, and even the pursuit of some classically 'geeky' passions, there was a marked dearth of endearing geeks/nerds on this show. 

 

On another and even more unpopular note..*whispers*...I kind of love Rory's infamous 'breakdown' in the psychologist's office in S6. (Perfect Dress maybe...? Most S6 episodes run together for me!) I found it amusing and subtly poignant at the same time in that uniquely GG sort of way. And I'm convinced that AB's crying was deliberately ridiculous in this case to enhance the comic effect...have I mentioned that one of my major UOs is that I'm an Alexis Bledel apologist?! 

[Guest]

I think bringing Marty back Season 7 could have been great if it had been done well.  Let Rory explore her feelings and let Marty no longer be in love with her. The good guy, the guy she rejected, shows up as she is struggling with her relationship with Logan? Good. Except he's in love with her friend and just wants to stay friends.  It could have been a far more interesting plot than "boyfriend."

[timimouse]

I'm curious as to how unpopular this opinion is... For me, Lane and Zach was a disappointment. I didn't buy it at all. And the story just kept getting worse with the getting married and "bad honeymoon sex" and then the twins.... *YAWN*

[JayInChicago]

I like Lane a lot (I think I just like Keiko a lot), and I think the show never had any idea what to do with her really. ASP proclaimed that Rory needed a Korean-American best friend who was a rebellious rock sort with a conservative Christian mother. But after that, they were kind of like...eh. What to do with Lane. Without Lane, we'd have no Mrs Kim, and that would be just wrong. 

 

And again, I like Lane a lot. I never skip through any Lane scenes. One of my favorite mid-series bits is her living with Rory at Yale. I wish they could have had their house made of cheese at some point too lol. I think my headcannon is Lane and Zach amicably break up and co-parent the twins while Lane becomes a musicologist.

[solotrek]

Brian lovers unite! For a show that was in many ways one of the best EVER at celebrating a love of learning, reading, and even the pursuit of some classically 'geeky' passions, there was a marked dearth of endearing geeks/nerds on this show. 

 

On another and even more unpopular note..*whispers*...I kind of love Rory's infamous 'breakdown' in the psychologist's office in S6. (Perfect Dress maybe...? Most S6 episodes run together for me!) I found it amusing and subtly poignant at the same time in that uniquely GG sort of way. And I'm convinced that AB's crying was deliberately ridiculous in this case to enhance the comic effect...have I mentioned that one of my major UOs is that I'm an Alexis Bledel apologist?! 

I love the psychologist office breakdown. It reminds me of scenes in over the top sitcoms and it never fails to make me laugh. Alexis was horrible in many types of scenes, but she was great at comedy for the show.

 

Agree about the Brian thing. He has Futurama figures and displays them proudly. He was proudly adorkable. I always thought it was weird that Lane went from Dave to Zach, because Brian was such a better guy for her than Zach was. But teenage/young adult hormones override the brain sometimes.

[junienmomo]

ASP proclaimed that Rory needed a Korean-American best friend who was a rebellious rock sort with a conservative Christian mother. But after that, they were kind of like...eh. What to do with Lane. Without Lane, we'd have no Mrs Kim, and that would be just wrong.

 

ASP had Helen Pai, someone in the show needed a Helen Pai, therefore Lane.

Lane/Mrs. Kim were clearly another parallel pair to Lorelai/Rory and Emily/Lorelai, and eventually Emily/Rory.

Both Lorelai and Mrs. Kim showed how to be (effectively in the case of Mrs. Kim) a single mother in SH. Also a business owner, rarely given credit for her contribution to the town.

Mrs. Kim was IMO a better mother than Lorelai, just as passionate, just as focused on "do it my way" but all in all the boundaries she set were good for Lane, even if they only served to increase Lane's resourcefulness in getting around them.

Compare that to Lorelai's "Rory on a pedestal" mode. Very bad for Rory.

[HeySandyStrange]

 

Mrs. Kim was IMO a better mother than Lorelai, just as passionate, just as focused on "do it my way" but all in all the boundaries she set were good for Lane, even if they only served to increase Lane's resourcefulness in getting around them.

Compare that to Lorelai's "Rory on a pedestal" mode. Very bad for Rory.

 I don't know that I could say Mrs.Kim was the "better" mother, to me she was the other side of the coin as far as parenting went. She was strict to the point of being stifiling, judgmental, and not very warm on the surface, while Lorelai excelled in the opposite with Rory. However, Mrs.Kim did have firm parent-child boundaries and she loved Lane but didn't make her the center of the universe, whereas Lorelai basically coddled Rory to the point of giving her unrealistic ideas about the world. Both definitely had their strengths as a family and both had weaknesses.

 

I do think Mrs.Kim and Lane had one of the best familial relationships in the show, in that it actually grew and evolved as the show went on. They both learned to compromise and communicate with each other, something that was sorely lacking in many of the shows relationships.

[solotrek]

They both learned to compromise and communicate with each other, something that was sorely lacking in many of the shows relationships.

 

I loved the scene right before Lane's baby shower when she basically said that life will be for her kids just like her mom's life was raising Lane. And Mrs. Kim went out of her way to make sure that Lane's band would go on tour and "let her" have the  raucous wedding party she had.  A lot of give and take in that relationship, and despite it having rough patches, it was clear that the two of them cared deeply about each other.

[Taryn74]

And THAT, I think, is the truly beautiful message of this show -- that people can have vastly different parenting styles, and all parent/child relationships have their ups and downs, and all parents make decisions they're proud of and decisions they regret......but most parents, at the end of the day, just really love their kids and want them to have a good life, and most kids, at the end of the day, really do turn out okay.

[amensisterfriend]

Amen, sister friend!!! 

 

Argh---it kills me how deeply and madly I still love this show despite its glaring flaws. 

[Guest]

I think my UO is I liked Zach and Lane together. However, I hated their post wedding storylines.  Sex sucked, but produced twins.  Zach at the diner, etc.  Just let them be a fun, young couple.

[amensisterfriend]

You totally just reminded me of another UO: I actually liked the stuff about Luke becoming closer to Lane and Zach in S7. I found his relationships with them entertaining and natural and even at times weirdly touching---much more so than the forced, repetitive 'his child teaches him what it's like to loooove!' stuff with April :) :) 

[Mulva]

Mrs. Kim was IMO a better mother than Lorelai, just as passionate, just as focused on "do it my way" but all in all the boundaries she set were good for Lane, even if they only served to increase Lane's resourcefulness in getting around them.

Compare that to Lorelai's "Rory on a pedestal" mode. Very bad for Rory.

True. I can't picture Lane stealing a yacht because someone gave her a critical review.

My UO:

I like S7. I like that Lorelai finally did some self-reflection and realized that she was living her life and defining herself solely in opposition to Emily.

Edited May 15, 2015 by Mulva

[amensisterfriend]

I like S7. I like that Lorelai finally did some self-reflection and realized that she was living her life and defining herself solely in opposition to Emily.

 

I actually like S7 a lot! More than the far more popular S5, in fact :) 

Edited May 15, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

Lorelai's First Cotillion in S7 is one of my favorite episodes. The Lorelai/Michel/Emily scenes are especially delightful to me.

[dustylil]

Lane may never have stolen a yacht. Or slept with a married man. Or done any number of other things that demonstrated an overwhelming sense of entitlement.  But she was no paragon nor even particularly nice. She was certainly well practiced in lying and deception. To the best of my recollection, she never expressed  regret or offered any apologies for the disrespect she showed her mother and the family's beliefs. Hopefully though, these were  youthful bad habits that she outgrew with marriage and motherhood.

 

As to Zach and Lane having a lousy sex life, I thought it was made clear that the intimate relationship between the two was quite satisfactory after an unfortunate start.

Edited May 16, 2015 by dustylil

[timimouse]

...But she was no paragon nor even particularly nice. She was certainly well practiced in lying and deception. To the best of my recollection, she never expressed  regret or offered any apologies for the disrespect she showed her mother and the family's beliefs...

 

I do remember when everything came out after she got drunk at the party and called her mother that she was apologetic. I don't think Lane was TRYING to hurt her mother, but rather trying to be happy with how she lived her life whilst not wanting to disappoint Mrs. Kim.

Edited May 17, 2015 by timimouse

[amensisterfriend]

Lorelai's First Cotillion in S7 is one of my favorite episodes. The Lorelai/Michel/Emily scenes are especially delightful to me.

 

Table for two! I wouldn't call it one of my favorites, but I do like it a whole lot, which is quite unpopular :) I thought it was a really interesting, entertaining exploration of some key GG themes and dynamics---most notably, to what extent did Lorelai's life choices stem from a desire to either rebel against or conform to her parents' expectations? I actually really liked the Logan/Rory and Lane/Zach stuff from this episode as well. 

 

It's always fun to see poor S7 get some love---I always like it so much more than I expect to :) 

[readster]

I do remember when everything came out after she got drunk at the party and called her mother that she was apologetic. I don't think Lane was TRYING to hurt her mother, but rather trying to be happy with how she lived her life whilst not wanting to disappoint Mrs. Kim.

That's how I always saw it. Lane did you know, have independent thoughts, she was going to like things her mother never was going to. I just hated the fact when it was revealed that Mrs. Kim had been doing the same for over 20 years to her own mother and Lane and Zach seeing it were in shock. It made her mother come off a the biggest hypocrite. I never felt sorry for her I wanted to go: "So, you didn't want to be like your mother, yet you did the same to your own child." "Yeah, that really made sense." *rolls eyes* 

[dustylil]

I am confused. How was Mrs. Kim a hypocrite for converting to another faith and not discussing it with her own mother? Was it made clear that she had become a Seventh Day Adventist when she was still young,  in school and hid it from her family? Or did I miss  something?

Didn't Mrs. Kim wait until she left home to follow a life that was not in  accordance with her family's beliefs and customs in Korea (that is living in the US)? I thought Mrs. Kim made it clear that she expected Lane to follow the family's rules when she was in the family home. Mrs. Kim didn't seem to vehemently object to her way of life once Lane was out on her own. Indeed we saw her help her daughter pursue her dreams.

 

As to not telling her own mother, why cause the woman unnecessary distress and pain?

 

It was Lane's constant lying and sneaking around from the earliest seasons that annoyed me. Lane wanted it both ways while she was a teenager -  live  life her own way but with all the comforts of the Kim home. After all, there was nothing to prevent Lane from listening to and playing the music that she liked. Or from following popular culture. Her mother allowed her to spend time at the home of Rory and Lorelai, play in band and take an active part in high school activities (including cheerleading!).  But to bring items into the Kim home that were quite clearly regarded as blasphemous by the tenets of their religious faith - such as rock music CDs, makeup, etc.  - was to me the height of contempt and disrespect.

Edited May 18, 2015 by dustylil

[Anela]

Brian lovers unite! For a show that was in many ways one of the best EVER at celebrating a love of learning, reading, and even the pursuit of some classically 'geeky' passions, there was a marked dearth of endearing geeks/nerds on this show. 

 

On another and even more unpopular note..*whispers*...I kind of love Rory's infamous 'breakdown' in the psychologist's office in S6. (Perfect Dress maybe...? Most S6 episodes run together for me!) I found it amusing and subtly poignant at the same time in that uniquely GG sort of way. And I'm convinced that AB's crying was deliberately ridiculous in this case to enhance the comic effect...have I mentioned that one of my major UOs is that I'm an Alexis Bledel apologist?! 

 

I thought it was deliberately ridiculous, as well. :) She didn't think she needed to see a therapist (from what I remember), and then just starts babbling and crying. 

I like Lane a lot (I think I just like Keiko a lot), and I think the show never had any idea what to do with her really. ASP proclaimed that Rory needed a Korean-American best friend who was a rebellious rock sort with a conservative Christian mother. But after that, they were kind of like...eh. What to do with Lane. Without Lane, we'd have no Mrs Kim, and that would be just wrong. 

 

And again, I like Lane a lot. I never skip through any Lane scenes. One of my favorite mid-series bits is her living with Rory at Yale. I wish they could have had their house made of cheese at some point too lol. I think my headcannon is Lane and Zach amicably break up and co-parent the twins while Lane becomes a musicologist.

 

Some of my favourite scenes were between Lane and her Mum. Lane sneaking in to kiss her cheek, Mrs Kim's face when she realized that Lane had called Luke and Lorelai, when she was upset. Mrs Kim pouring her a drink when she was out-Mrs-Kimming her mum with her grouchiness. I could go on.

 

I also love that they are still in touch, after the show. 

I loved the scene right before Lane's baby shower when she basically said that life will be for her kids just like her mom's life was raising Lane. And Mrs. Kim went out of her way to make sure that Lane's band would go on tour and "let her" have the  raucous wedding party she had.  A lot of give and take in that relationship, and despite it having rough patches, it was clear that the two of them cared deeply about each other.

[Taryn74]

Mrs Kim pouring her a drink when she was out-Mrs-Kimming her mum with her grouchiness.

 

 

HA!  I had forgotten about that scene.  "You forgot to kick him in the pants as he walked out."  Heeeeee.

[Madame Helvetica]

Just coming here to post this (not sure if it's already been posted): Logan doesn't think Rory should have married him either.

 

I can't believe they called him the "the annoying, pompous Logan Huntzberger on Gilmore Girls." Seriously? I think that mainly describes Jess. 

[Aloeonatable]

I don't know, I would never use the word "pompous" to describe Jess. Annoying, sullen, anti-social would be some of the adjectives I would use for Jess, I guess.

[amensisterfriend]

I definitely think 'pompous' can be an accurate description of Logan, especially S5-S6 Logan. Matt C's overly smirky depiction of him didn't help matters. (I hold the UO of far preferring this pairing in fanfic than I did on screen!) As for annoying...honestly, even as a colossal fan of the show, I think that's an adjective that at various times could apply to nearly every single character :) 

 

I do wonder if there was occasionally a 'reverse classism' thing at work on GG, though. Somtimes it felt like we were supposed to kind of automatically root for the 'working class' characters over the wealthy ones on principle, regardless of the specific personalities, chemistry, etc. involved. And the portrayal of class differences was extraordinarily cliched and exaggerated, but then most of us don't love GG for its realism :) 

[dustylil]

I am at a loss. Or perhaps mis-remembering. What characters in the series could be described as " working class"? Lorelai pre-series in her years working as a maid,  yes. And Dean perhaps in the period after he dropped out of college. But  was there anyone we got to know in the seven years of the show who could be described as working class?  The vast majority of the non "filthy rich" - Luke, Taylor, Miss Patty, Babette, Morey, Sookie, Jackson, Mrs. Kim, Rabbi Behrens, Reverend Skinner, Mia, Max, the Headmaster  - were business owners, homemakers or professionals. Even the idiot Liz we were given to understand supported herself through her jewelry making and sales.

I would respectfully suggest the class differences portrayed were those of the virtuous middle class and those of the moustache-twirling, Snidely Whiplash-like villains of  the very well-to-do :)

[Kohola3]

I think of everyone in that list except the filthy rich as working class. Working class is defined as people working for wages. I guess that could define Mitchum and Richard as well but they had vast inherited wealth while the rest of them did not. In my view, everyone in Stars Hollow are working class people.  I am a professional but think of myself as part of the working class since I punch a time clock as do most nurses.

[amensisterfriend]

Exactly, Kohola! I don't have time to get into a pointless and pedantic debate, so thank you for explaining it so succinctly :) 

[dustylil]

Well I had heard that the middle class was disappearing in the US, but I had no idea it had actually come to an end ;)

[Crs97]

Here is my unpopular opinion:  I was never all that impressed with Lorelai's letter to the court and never agreed with Christopher that it sounded like a love letter.  I could understand Christopher being upset that she described Luke as a father figure to Rory.  It was true, but I could understand his not wanting to see that in black and white.  But the rest of it?  Not all that special.

[dustylil]

I did not think it was all that special either, Crs97.  But then I did not realize we were supposed to. Of course, I could understand Chris being disturbed by it. The putz.

The letter issue may have been better served had we viewers never heard the whole thing but just excerpts (e.g. Luke being in your life, father figure to Rory). And then be told how warm and wonderful the overall missive had been.

[Kohola3]

Here is my unpopular opinion:  I was never all that impressed with Lorelai's letter to the court and never agreed with Christopher that it sounded like a love letter.

 

That whole thing was so silly.  What court would give custody to a guy with a police record and anger management issues based on that rather insipid letter from a random woman unknown to the court?  I just ain't that easy....

[amensisterfriend]

What court would give custody to a guy with a police record and anger management issues based on that rather insipid letter from a random woman unknown to the court?

 

Ha---EXACTLY! I'm among those who holds the UO of liking S7 more than most fans do, but everything about that storyline was embarrassingly bad.

Edited June 2, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[txhorns79]

That whole thing was so silly.  What court would give custody to a guy with a police record and anger management issues based on that rather insipid letter from a random woman unknown to the court?  I just ain't that easy....

 

In fairness, character letters are pretty common in those situations, and I doubt the court was all that impressed with Anna "I thought you didn't like kids" Nardini's parenting.  I would agree that Luke's issues were kind of glanced over, but perhaps he was seen as the better of a crappy pair. 

[dustylil]

I was  surprised at the time that there was just that one letter. I would have thought that a man as well regarded as Luke appeared to be - both as an individual and as a businessman - would have had quite a few character references from the townies. Sure, the one from Miss Patty would likely be lascivious. But the rest would have informed the judge as to what a fine fellow he was, how they had seen him establish a bond with his daughter and how he was worthy of at least partial custody of his child.

[readster]

Yeah, I also could see the judge going to Anna: "So, you never told him that you were pregnant because you thought he might be a bad parent?" Anna: "Yes, I mean the sex was great but he was never really 'open' about his life." Judge: "What do you mean open?" Anna: "Well, he said he sent money to his sister, had his own place after his dad died, loved his job, was well respected by the town but he never told me where the relationship was going." Judge: "I see. You're a moron madam." 

[dustylil]

To continue the way of thinking of Anna  and her explanations to the Judge -

Your Honour, when April was about seven years of age, I saw Mr. Danes at a lumberyard parking lot. I waved to him but he did not wave back. I took this as a sign from God that I should not inform him about his child or involve him in her parenting. That same celestial sign made me not tell our daughter anything about her father.

Edited June 3, 2015 by dustylil

[readster]

Followed by Anna saying: "I also asked him to take off his hat or at least stop wearing it backwards all the time." "He told me that was his thing and he wasn't going to change for me." "I knew it was over right there and then, I mean how could he be a father if he wouldn't turn his hat around?" I really would have loved to seen the court hearing on all of this.

[junienmomo]

Here is my unpopular opinion:  I was never all that impressed with Lorelai's letter to the court and never agreed with Christopher that it sounded like a love letter.  I could understand Christopher being upset that she described Luke as a father figure to Rory.  It was true, but I could understand his not wanting to see that in black and white.  But the rest of it?  Not all that special.

Christopher was written in S7 to be as bothered by Luke as Luke was bothered by him. That's what made it easy for me to fan-wank that it's a love letter. How in the world weak-as-a-dishrag Christopher got up the nerve to start the fight in Fisticuffs, I'll never know.

But because he was supposed to be bothered by Luke, he wanted to read it as a love letter. Hmm, that may actually fit to weak Christopher - it's not his fault (it never is) that he married someone who didn't love him.

 

And to everyone else in this thread - I LOVE your Anna rationalizations. Hilarious!

Edited June 3, 2015 by junienmomo

[readster]

Christopher was written in S7 to be as bothered by Luke as Luke was bothered by him. That's what made it easy for me to fan-wank that it's a love letter. How in the world weak-as-a-dishrag Christopher got up the nerve to start the fight in Fisticuffs, I'll never know.

But because he was supposed to be bothered by Luke, he wanted to read it as a love letter. Hmm, that may actually fit to weak Christopher - it's not his fault (it never is) that he married someone who didn't love him.

 

And to everyone else in this thread - I LOVE your Anna rationalizations. Hilarious!

 

 That kept in the theme since season 1 on Christopher, it was never his fault, it was always someone else's. He didn't drop out of school because he hated it or was lost, not it was Lorelai and Rory's fault. He didn't knock someone else up seventeen years later, oh not that was his girlfriend's fault. Him failing to not be in Rory's life regularly growing up, oh no that was Lorelai's fault. You get the point, nothing was ever Christopher's fault and everyone constantly reminded him and the audience that was the point. He could do no wrong, everyone else did it to him.

[Crs97]

Since my last unpopular opinion turned out not to be so unpopular, here is another one that may fit the bill:  I couldn't believe Lorelai in the finale when she decided that she and Luke were over because Luke hadn't made a big enough gesture to prove his love.  Just a few episodes earlier he had spent the day driving all over God's creation and negotiating with everyone because she was whining about her heap of junk car like it was a death in the family.  All she did was write a weak letter to the court and sing him a song, but he is the one who needs to give more???  Luke deserved so much better than Lorelai, and I really felt sorry for him by the end.