Emily Gilmore...What is with her?

[lottiedottie]

My Gilmore Girls journey began a few months ago, when I would sometimes catch and episode on ABC Family during the day. I didn't watch with any consistency but just enjoyed what I saw. I started more seriously watching the show when I realized it didn't require my full attention and I could watch the show while I worked (I work at home), so I started binge watching episodes. I started with season 4, I think....and then worked my way through the end of the series. Now I've gone back and am watching the first three seasons. I am up to S3 E8.

 

Now, my reason for starting an Emily topic. After watching most of season 4 and all of 5-8 and now 1 and 2...I'm finding the character of Emily to be frighteningly uneven. It's a wonder Lorelai managed to keep any sort of sanity because it seems like with Emily you never know what you're going to get. One episode, she's trying to bond with Lorelai and later in the same episode she's giving her the cold shoulder. Or, episode to episode Emily could be borderline tolerable swinging all the way to completely unreasonable demon woman.

 

What saddens me the most about her character is that over the entire arc of the series, she never really grows (I've mentioned this elsewhere). Sure, in the last episode, she's sort of ok (as pleasant as one could expect Emily to  be, I guess) but she and Lorelai never really mended any fences. Emily never seemed to come to respect her daughter. I know Lorelai agreed to keep coming to dinner, so I guess that was something?

 

What do you guys think? I feel like we saw growth and change with Richard...I mean, he was essentially still the same but by the end, he managed to say some things to Lorelai that were really touching. I felt like he came around a bit, unlike Emily.

[cheezwhiz346]

I definitely feel like the writing for Emily was uneven. Sometimes the conflict between her and Lorelai felt really organic, and sometimes (as noted I think somewhere on these threads) she acted like Snidely Whiplash, downright cartoonish in her manipulative villainy. In those times I felt like ASP was trying to manufacture drama in a way that left me asking why Lorelai didn't just cut herself off from her mother entirely. The stuff in season 5 in particular was way over the top for me, and the notion that Lorelai and Emily could successfully reconcile after that without some serious, serious growth on Emily's side was not credible at all to me.

[junienmomo]

My Gilmore Girls journey began a few months ago, when I would sometimes catch and episode on ABC Family during the day. I didn't watch with any consistency but just enjoyed what I saw. I started more seriously watching the show when I realized it didn't require my full attention and I could watch the show while I worked (I work at home), so I started binge watching episodes. I started with season 4, I think....and then worked my way through the end of the series. Now I've gone back and am watching the first three seasons. I am up to S3 E8.

 

Now, my reason for starting an Emily topic. After watching most of season 4 and all of 5-8 and now 1 and 2...I'm finding the character of Emily to be frighteningly uneven. It's a wonder Lorelai managed to keep any sort of sanity because it seems like with Emily you never know what you're going to get. One episode, she's trying to bond with Lorelai and later in the same episode she's giving her the cold shoulder. Or, episode to episode Emily could be borderline tolerable swinging all the way to completely unreasonable demon woman.

 

Interesting that you started watching in S4 and 5, because those are the seasons that the writers apparently gave up all hope of returning to the original concept and degenerated the show into an illogical soap opera. You walked into Soap Opera Emily, dragon lady, take no prisoners.

Sticking to the original concept would have been fabulous in S4-5, because we would have had Lorelai in a solid relationship and Emily (if she'd still been the S1 Emily) desiring a closer relationship with her. Instead we got melodrama out the wazoo. 

 

Oh, the places the writers could have gone! Instead we got Pod Lorelai and Emily Snidely Whiplash Gilmore.

[lottiedottie]

Yeah, it was totally weird to see what S4 and beyond Emily was like and then start over with S1,2 and now part of 3 and see how she is. It's like, really? Later Emily seems to have regressed from earlier Emily in so many ways. It's frustrating, because in those moments where we see some humanity from Emily, it's really enjoyable---only to have them taken away by the next absurd illogical action/reaction of Emily.

 

I feel like the first real sense of love and respect for Lorelai is when she graduates from business school. That would have been a place for growth but they still went back to the well of Evil Emily after that. 

[txhorns79]

In those times I felt like ASP was trying to manufacture drama in a way that left me asking why Lorelai didn't just cut herself off from her mother entirely. The stuff in season 5 in particular was way over the top for me, and the notion that Lorelai and Emily could successfully reconcile after that without some serious, serious growth on Emily's side was not credible at all to me.

 

It really did feel like the writers, for whatever reason, felt they couldn't let Emily and Lorelai grow in their relationship.  It was like they were scared to death that the relationship would become really boring if Emily and Lorelai weren't constantly sniping. 

[readster]

Yeah, even Kelly Bishop said as the series was ending she felt that Emily backtracked instead of grew or moved forward as a character. She said one of her favorite episodes towards the end of the series was: "I am kayak, hear me roar." Saying that it seemed at that moment, Emily realized it was time to let go of the past but sadly swung right back to being Emily of season 1 all over again. It was like the writers gave up and thought about just trying to make Emily be either a complete moron oblivious to how the world worked outside her niche in life. I would go on more about it but I'll save that for another day. The biggest thing that drove me nuts was how much Emily hung out to Chris and Lore getting married and being one big happy family with Rory after over 20 years. As many people and critics said: "Time to get over it." 

[lottiedottie]

Another thing about Emily that I don't understand is she knows how much it sucks to get treated poorly (because Richard's mother is oh. my god. awful!!) and yet she rags on Lorelai all the time. It's like she had absolutely no self awareness at all.

[dustylil]

What struck me as particularly odd was that Emily was so shocked at that letter Trix had sent to Richard urging him not to marry her. Now if Trix had treated her daughter-in-law with love and respect throughout her married life, then yes I could see her being seriously  taken aback by that letter. But that was not the case. Trix had  treated her with disdain bordering on contempt for years. Why on earth should she be surprised that Trix had expressed her views to her son in written form?

[deepfriedcake]

 

It really did feel like the writers, for whatever reason, felt they couldn't let Emily and Lorelai grow in their relationship.  It was like they were scared to death that the relationship would become really boring if Emily and Lorelai weren't constantly sniping.

Wow, txhorns, that's so true. Sort of like the same rationale that kept Lorelai and Luke apart for so many years, because oh-my-goodness, if they did get together, then what will we do with them? Because you know, established couples are so boring. No way to do anything exciting there. (See: Jackson and Sookie, pot farmers.) *sigh*

 

It was hard to ever feel any sympathy for Emily, because as soon as you did, she'd go right back to being her snobby, inflexible self the next episode. And that reflected poorly on Richard, too, I think, because you'd look at him and wonder why in the world he didn't try to temper Emily occasionally. It would have only added to the show's storyline if Emily and Lorelai could have eventually had a more tolerant relationship. I always think back to Bracebridge, when Rory watches Lorelai and Emily patting on their cold cream in the exact same way. It would have been amazing to see the two of them explore some of what they had in common instead of constantly being adversaries. (And for what it's worth, I blame Emily the most. We saw Lorelai reach out to her mother quite a few times, only to have Emily cut her back down.)

[dustylil]

I thought as well the showrunners didn't have a particularly convincing resolution to the separation of Richard and Emily. Yes, they did love one another and clearly there was a physical bond between the two - much to the dismay of Lorelai :) However, I never got the sense that Richard's self-centredness and Emily's feeling of being put out to pasture as a career wife which led to them being apart were addressed by the pair. They just seem to go back to life as before and then we got was the next family crisis - the felon drop-out.

[junienmomo]

Wow, txhorns, that's so true. Sort of like the same rationale that kept Lorelai and Luke apart for so many years, because oh-my-goodness, if they did get together, then what will we do with them? Because you know, established couples are so boring. No way to do anything exciting there. (See: Jackson and Sookie, pot farmers.) *sigh*

Given that the original concept was mothers and daughters, and given that GG wouldn't have achieved and maintained popularity for so many years without out an OTP for at least one of the two GG, I wonder about the effectiveness of the showrunners.

ASP and hubby were the showrunners for 6 seasons. It was her concept and they had their scripts, so I find it hard not to conclude that they simply ran out of steam with respect to character development and took the easy way out by using the standard TV-schlock rules of "keep them separated no matter how ridiculous you have to make it - you can't resolve a conflict, then open a new one later. Inconceivable!"

It takes two to tango, of course, and the resource choke-hold that the company had on the Palladinos was certainly a major factor. Starving the golden goose to death is no better than cutting it open to get all the eggs out at once.

 

I'm still trying to identify the jump-the-shark moment, though. Can't quite place my finger on it. Maybe "Here Comes the Son?" Maybe Rory's adultery?

[readster]

 

ASP and hubby were the showrunners for 6 seasons. It was her concept and they had their scripts, so I find it hard not to conclude that they simply ran out of steam with respect to character development and took the easy way out by using the standard TV-schlock rules of "keep them separated no matter how ridiculous you have to make it - you can't resolve a conflict, then open a new one later. Inconceivable!"

 

 

 They also wanted to throw out excuses left and right about why they ran things like that. Constantly talking about: "The Moonlighting Curse." Saying it was similar to their relationships with their own parents, thinking it worked better with the formula of the show. However, it really backfired on them, even to the point the actors and now the Ps look back going: "Yeah, we really could have done that better couldn't we?" What really throw my hands up on Emily was both the way her and Richard thought that Rory being put down by Mitchum was a fabrication of Lorelai's imagination, the way she fired her maids the last two years but it all goes back how she really tried to end Lore and Luke's relationship because: *gasp* what will her friends and the DAR think if their only child married a diner owner from a small town she has lived in for 20 years! Plus, then how she acted that the fight was nothing and that Lorelai was just doing her spouting off again. After that, I could have cared less about Emily because her character was completely tarnished by then and no going back.

[Aloeonatable]

 

I'm still trying to identify the jump-the-shark moment, though. Can't quite place my finger on it. Maybe "Here Comes the Son?" Maybe Rory's adultery?

 

Neither of these have anything to do with Emily. I don't see a jump-the-shark moment in GG. I personally think most series, GG included, should end after a few seasons. Very few, series can maintain their quality throughout 5 - 7 years. Only a few come to my mind; The Sopranos, Breaking Bad, Mad Men of recent years. Those were good until the end most likely because their seasons were only 10 - 13 episodes, not the network number of 22 - 24.

 

GG characters were often exaggerations and caricatures, and Emily was no different. 

[HeySandyStrange]

 

Neither of these have anything to do with Emily. I don't see a jump-the-shark moment in GG. I personally think most series, GG included, should end after a few seasons. Very few, series can maintain their quality throughout 5 - 7 years. Only a few come to my mind; The Sopranos, Breaking Bad, Mad Men of recent years. Those were good until the end most likely because their seasons were only 10 - 13 episodes, not the network number of 22 - 24.

 

Agreed.  With the increasing trend towards quality shows having shorter seasons/series runs, I wonder how a show like GG would have been improved if they had followed that format. I over stretching the central ideas over 20+ episodes over many years ended up producing a lot of filler,fluff, and nonsensical storylines and character development (or lack thereof).

 

Emily, like all the characters, really suffered from the increasing lack of focus and motivation over the course of many years. Like Rory and Lorelai, she would have really benefited by being challenged and/or called out more on her faulty actions and ideas. Or being taken out of her social comfort zone-I would've loved to have watched Emily interacting on a regular basis with people typically "beneath" her and ,gasp, maybe start to recognize them as worthwhile human beings despite not WASPs.

[Kohola3]

I'm not sure ASP really knew what to do with Emily.  I just watched Forgiveness and her interactions with Luke were so touching and yet she seems to forget that whole hospital scenario and spit venom in later episodes.  I think that was Luke's finest episode and led man of us to become shippers.  

 

Too bad both his character and Emily's got assassinated later on.

[dustylil]

I would've loved to have watched Emily interacting on a regular basis with people typically "beneath" her and ,gasp, maybe start to recognize them as worthwhile human beings despite not WASPs.

 

I'm pretty sure a great number of people in Stars Hollow Emily met were  WASPs. What they weren't was well-to-do WASPs.

[readster]

I'm not sure ASP really knew what to do with Emily.  I just watched Forgiveness and her interactions with Luke were so touching and yet she seems to forget that whole hospital scenario and spit venom in later episodes.  I think that was Luke's finest episode and led man of us to become shippers.  

 

Too bad both his character and Emily's got assassinated later on.

With what happened to Luke, I will talk about on another thread since we all know when Luke's character was thrown under the bus and never recovered. For Emily, it started with Mitchum but when she went out of her way to destroy Luke and Lorelai and that entire scene with Christopher is not only forced but that was Chris's assassination as a character too. I did look over the episode again and I'm sorry, if anyone person would have referred to my child as a "this" which is what Emily did and then the fact that not only did Chris listen to her but then in Wedding Bell Blues to pretty much say that no matter what, Luke's relationship was going to end and he was going to pick up the pieces because he should have married her since day 1. I'm sorry, that was too much. That wasn't the Christopher who realized he screwed up and was taking responsibility for his second child he had out of wedlock and then married his girlfriend. No, but as soon as Sherry left Chris turned back into: "Poor me, I can't do anything right." "Save me Lorelai!" What was even worst was Emily's referral to Georgia as "this" was the same as what Straube and Francine had said what Rory was over the years. They never saw her as their granddaughter and Richard and Emily hated them for that. They loved her even if Straube and Francine didn't and no one was going to call her a "this".

  Of course as mentioned, Emily never learned, it was her way or the high way, she lived in this world of: Wasps, Rich Folk, DAR get togethers, impressing people with more money than them, ect. They reacted in human ways when they were told they weren't good enough or if anyone really did insult members of their family. Yet they turned around and did just that and despite everything. I never believed that Mitchum, the rest of the Huntzburgers were trying to plan Rory's downfall or anything like that. They were like Emily and Richard, they had a way they believed things and no one was going to tell them otherwise even if they had no reason to crush or humiliate people. They just did it because that's what they believed. However for what Emily did with trying to destroy Luke and Lorelai, pretty much telling Christopher to obey her because she liked his "genes" and family status. Despite that fact that pretty much no one cared for Chris's family, especially after Straube died and not even Francine considered Georgia to her granddaughter either was too much. Then for Richard to backstab Jason because he dared to go out with his daughter because Jason's dad hated the fact that Jason didn't want to take over the family business was just as ridiculous and out of character for Richard. Those were moments that were not only out of character for them but any other human being would have not only stopped talking to them. They would have ran them over with their cars.

Edited May 29, 2015 by readster

[dustylil]

Once again I find myself defending Emily. And once again it pains me.

Both Emily and Christopher used the word "this" in referring to Christopher's daughter.

Here is the specific dialogue

EMILY: I’m fine, thank you. [she looks down at Gigi.] So, this is the child.

CHRIS: Yes, this is Georgia. We call her Gigi.

 

 Now it wasn't a particularly warm exchange but I don't think it was insulting or hurtful. And there was no indication that Christopher did either.

Especially so given that Emily a few moments later made a point to  say good-bye to the little girl and tell her that she hoped that she  enjoyed  the  television program she was watching.

[JayInChicago]

I always understood it that Emily never really liked Lorelai but loved her in a deep, traditional-ish way. Lorelai was never obedient and never supplicated/beeseched herself to Emily's ways, which Emily pretty much demanded of a daughter. Rory was much more superficially obedient even if she used some sly methods of getting her own way, which was much more with the keeping up appearances Emily preferred. Lorelai was tacky and crass. I think I can enjoy some of the evil since it is tv.

 

I also think Trix was probably right about Emily, even if Trix herself was a domineering snob. 

 

For me there were a pod of sharks and lots of jumping but overall I still love the show, possibly for reasons I couldn't explain. Showing Chris as such a weak character to get puppeted so fully by Emily is a major IDGI moment. I skip that episode.

Edited May 30, 2015 by JayInChicago

[junienmomo]

I always understood it that Emily never really liked Lorelai but loved her in a deep, traditional-ish way. Lorelai was never obedient and never supplicated/beeseched herself to Emily's ways, which Emily pretty much demanded of a daughter. Rory was much more superficially obedient even if she used some sly methods of getting her own way, which was much more with the keeping up appearances Emily preferred. Lorelai was tacky and crass. I think I can enjoy some of the evil since it is tv.

 

I also think Trix was probably right about Emily, even if Trix herself was a domineering snob. 

 

Not only was Trix right about Emily, but it seems to me that Emily treated Lorelai occasionally the way Trix treated Emily all the time. 

The whole idea of proper behavior (includes keeping up appearances) was ridiculous when it came to Emily. Time and time again she was rude to her daughter even in front of others, yet frequently chastized her for not behaving properly. Too bad Trix couldn't have called her out on it. That would have been a good use of the Trix character, someone who forces Emily into Lorelai's shoes. Maybe that was ASP's intent; it didn't come over that clearly to me.

[blueray]

I never liked how they never improved their relationship. I was hoping that they would at least hug at the end of the show but they don't.

 

I agree Emily was never written very well. I get that she was upset that Loreali left and wanted to get to know her and Rory again in season 1. However, they didn't stay consistent as seasons went on.  I didn't like that she could except that Lorali was with Luke. He was a nice guy (who owned a business) and had known Rory since she was a kid. Sure he was a different social class but so was their daughter.

 

Richard on the other hand they did do a good job writing him. He develops a cute relationship with Rory and has a good one with Loreli. I especially like the one where she helps him with his business.

Edited May 31, 2015 by blueray

[alexa]

I get confused by Emily as well.  On the one hand I like that the writing shows their complicated relationship, and in many ways that is a very normal life experience for many families.  So I like that I don't always understand it and can view their relationship as complex and not one dimensional.  On the other hand, Emily really is inconsistent, and how she acts on an issue in one episode often doesn't correlate about how she acts in another episode on the same type of issue.  I don't think she would be that "complex" to the point that her brain can't figure out from day to day how she feels about something.

Edited June 1, 2015 by alexa

[readster]

I get confused by Emily as well.  On the one hand I like that the writing shows their complicated relationship, and in many ways that is a very normal life experience for many families.  So I like that I don't always understand it and can view their relationship as complex and not one dimensional.  On the other hand, Emily really is inconsistent, and how she acts on an issue in one episode often doesn't correlate about how she acts in another episode on the same type of issue.  I don't think she would be that "complex" to the point that her brain can't figure out from day to day how she feels about something.

 

 I completely agree. Reminds me of my relationship with my father. All the years and the things he has experienced and went through and he still doesn't get it. However, has me made progress or at least tried to do things to have a relationship with me and my children. Sure but sadly he fell back into: "What is easy to do instead of what is right." 

[txhorns79]

Time and time again she was rude to her daughter even in front of others, yet frequently chastized her for not behaving properly. Too bad Trix couldn't have called her out on it. That would have been a good use of the Trix character, someone who forces Emily into Lorelai's shoes. Maybe that was ASP's intent; it didn't come over that clearly to me.

 

I was surprised Lorelai never called Emily out as to the situation with Trix.  I can imagine Emily would say she does what she does because she cares about Lorelai, whereas Trix acted the way she did out of apparent dislike for Emily, but at least the idea would have been out there.

[timimouse]

I actually find myself defending Emily here, although she really wasn't one of my favourite characters. I do think their relationship grew over the series. To start with, the whole reason Emily insisted on Friday night dinners was to develop a relationship with her daughter and granddaughter. And whenever either of them missed one, she was vary upset. I think we need to remember that Emily is very old school. Appearances matter to her more than anything. Her relationship with Lorelai was also a very tumultuous one. There was a lot of history there and a lot hurt, anger and resentment that they were both struggling with. Old habits are hard to break, so yes, she did fall back into her old ways ever so often. But in the last episode, they may not have hugged but Emily was trying to loan money to Lorelai yet again to maintain the Friday night dinner arrangement because she thought that's what she needed to do to keep her daughter in her life. And Lorelai, knowing that, told her "lets talk about it at dinner on friday night". I see that as growth. At least the idea was planted that they continued to work on their relationship.

Edited June 7, 2015 by timimouse

[takalotti]

While I don't have quite as many issues with Emily as Lorelai did, I can't defend her that much. Yes, she SAID the FNDs were for developing relationships, but I think a lot of it also had to do with control.

Emily isn't the first parent to try to control their kids with money. When Lorelai became financially independent, Emily had nothing to use to control her anymore. And I believe that drove her crazy.

So when Lorelai came back and was in a postion where Emily could control her, even for a nice reason, she jumped at the chance. She would get upset when they missed a dinner, not so much because she was disappointed she wouldn't be seeing the girls that day, but because her rules were not being obeyed.

If it wasn't about control, she wouldn't have made the rule.

I certainly understand someone WANTING that rule. If my kid cut me out and then came back to ask for money, I'd be cautious of being taken advantage of or taken for granted. But there's a whole spectrum of how to deal with things in between. Entitlement, control, and not seeming to accept some of the blame in the bad relationship aren't good ways to go IMO.

[txhorns79]

I certainly understand someone WANTING that rule. If my kid cut me out and then came back to ask for money, I'd be cautious of being taken advantage of or taken for granted. But there's a whole spectrum of how to deal with things in between. Entitlement, control, and not seeming to accept some of the blame in the bad relationship aren't good ways to go IMO.

 

It's a hard situation.  There is something offensive about basically being given the finger by your kid for fifteen or so years, only to have them come crawling back when they need something.  I would say Emily and Richard were entitled to put strings on their money, but I understand the idea that they should not want to be seen as controlling.  I think from my point of view, I saw the FNDs as a pretty small thing to ask for in return for what would have been tens of thousands of dollars over Rory's high school career.   

[Taryn74]

It's a hard situation.  There is something offensive about basically being given the finger by your kid for fifteen or so years, only to have them come crawling back when they need something.    

 

Exactly.  Emily used the loan to control Lorelai, yes, but the flip side of that is she knew this was her only chance to be back in her daughter and granddaughter's lives on a regular basis.  And the thing is, she was right.  Lorelai had every intention of taking the money and not doing anything to change their "see you on the holidays, and only then because I have to!" relationship.  I honestly cannot blame Emily for jumping on the opportunity.

[moonb]

I'm pretty forgiving of Emily's series-long arc for the most part because my own mother has some Emily-like qualities, and she's been repeating the same arguments, more or less, with my sister and with me for the past 30 years. So I do buy the frustrating aspects of the Emily/Lorelai relationship with its one step forward/two step back annoyances, and the fact that really stupid stuff can set your relationship back.

 

I even buy Emily wanting Rory as a "do over" daughter as late as season 6, which I think is less about Emily's own social snobbery and maybe more about the fact that Emily really wants someone in her family to love her the best and want to emulate her. I can imagine Emily, like lots of new parents, having baby Lorelai and fantasizing about Lorelai growing up, living nearby, having the same social life, and bringing her kids to Emily so that Emily can shop for them and take them to clubs and so forth. Obviously, instead she got a daughter who barely likes her parents most of the time- not without good reason, of course. But from Emily's perspective, her daughter and granddaughter are firmly in pursuit of their own careers, and her husband is insulting and dismissive of Emily's life of volunteer and charitable work. So she must feel like a stranger and rejected within her own family many times over the seven seasons. Rory loves Emily, but Lorelai and Richard are her models for living until season 6, and Emily must know that.

 

That said, the season 5 stuff with Emily meddling in Luke and Lorelai's relationship is still inexplicable to me, and I can't even begin to explain the inconsistent writing there.  I would have thought that Christopher was really done as a realistic partner for Lorelai after the season 2/3 Sherry pregnancy debacle, since Emily herself saw how much that hurt Lorelai. Granted, Lorelai would have rejected any "society" Hartford guy as quickly as she did Chilton dad and boring Jon Hamm, but that whole Luke/Chris are the only feasible partners for Lorelai, proving she "chose" Stars Hollow over Hartford, got old fast.   

 

Just like the endless question of "how rich are the senior Gilmores, really?" the question to me is "just what sort of life did Emily and Richard want for Lorelai by season 5?" Besides being married to her daughter's father, anyway? Was she supposed to be a society wife whose financial needs were taken care of? But then, how was Christopher, who even in Emily's opinion was a weak and feckless guy who didn't find a financially stable job until his 30s, supposed to provide that? Or was she supposed to be that MBA or lawyer, "capable of greatness," in Emily's own words, with Chris as an ornamental husband with good breeding? 

And of course, that ties into the other conflict between Emily and Richard of his disrespect for her "frivolous, meaningless" lifestyle, which was never really resolved after their reconciliation and only brought up afterwards whenever it was convenient. 

Edited June 8, 2015 by moonb

[Taryn74]

I even buy Emily wanting Rory as a "do over" daughter as late as season 6, which I think is less about Emily's own social snobbery and maybe more about the fact that Emily really wants someone in her family to love her the best and want to emulate her. 

 

That's a really interesting point.  I think you hit the nail on the head.  Time and time again, throughout the entire series, we were shown that what upsets Emily the most is feeling unappreciated by those she loves.  Whether it was Richard referring to her society functions as "frivolous," or Lorelai refusing to let them be a part of her life unless she was dragged kicking and screaming into it, or Rory moving out when she got tired of the DAR Darling life -- to Emily that all said "we don't appreciate you or what you've given to this family" and I believe that really hurt her.

[junienmomo]

Time and time again, throughout the entire series, we were shown that what upsets Emily the most is feeling unappreciated by those she loves. 

 

Emily, like everyone else, wants to be loved by those she loves. By Season 5, she's been abandoned by Lorelai and cheated on by Richard (cheating defined by the lunches with Pennilyn Lott, not sex). That's gotta scar a person. She turned bitter in S5.

When it comes to Lorelai and Christopher, by S5 Emily had introduced Lorelai to enough other men that she patently didn't care if she was with Christopher or not. She did, however, know that Christopher was weak and could be manipulated, so she did. Her motivation is also clear - both she and Richard were committed to Lorelai not staying with Luke because he was simply not good enough for her. S5 for Emily was about getting rid of Luke. Too bad that she destroyed whatever fragile relationship she had with her daughter at that moment. This combination of humanity (I want my daughter to love me) and callous indifference (I want what I want her to have and nothing else is good enough; forget that she's an adult) really irks me. How can one adult look at another adult and not acknowledge their right to self-determination?

She gave in to Luke as Lorelai's partner only because she saw it as the only chance to keep Lorelai in her life. that would have been a really good time for Luke and Lorelai to move a few thousand miles away. They could at least have kept up the pretense of a relationship for a while.

[dustylil]

that would have been a really good time for Luke and Lorelai to move a few thousand miles away.

 

Alternately, they could have contently remained in Stars Hollow and only seen Richard and Emily on the major holidays. Much like Lorelai and Rory did before Lorelai went to her parents for the loan for Chilton.

I think I would be considerably more sympathetic to Emily in her desire to be loved by and have an active part in the lives of her family members had she  made a real and ongoing  effort to see things from another's perspective. Or at least recognize that there were other ways of conducting one's life in a responsible and fulfilling manner beyond how she and her circle conducted theirs. For an educated woman of purported sophistication. I found her to be quite provincial and narrow-minded.

[txhorns79]

Or at least recognize that there were other ways of conducting one's life in a responsible and fulfilling manner beyond how she and her circle conducted theirs.

 

Like mother, like daughter. 

[BellyLaughter]

After doing a re-watch of this show on Netflix and being x number of years older I have a whole new appreciation of the character of Emily and now have disappointment that the character was not given the journey she should have been given.  There was so much glorious potential for particularly the characters of Emily and Lorelai.  Kelly Bishop and Lauren Graham should be writers gifts but alas, as with much of GG, the cynicism and negativity took over and the opportunities for growth were swallowed up.  The "one step forwards, 2 million steps back" pattern of storytelling just killed this character and wasted Kelly Bishop's talent.  It's a travesty!

 

For anyone who doesn't know about the Gilmore Guys podcast I highly recommend listening to Kevin's chat with Kelly from the reunion weekend in Austin!  She's amazing, engaging and lovely!! 

Edited September 21, 2015 by BellyLaughter

[junienmomo]

BellyLaughter, the ham-fisted treatment of Emily after season 1 was a mess, I agree. There were several good moments in S2-S4, but S5 was a debacle from which Emily never really recovered. 

[Purpose to defraud]

I actually find myself defending Emily here, although she really wasn't one of my favourite characters. I do think their relationship grew over the series. To start with, the whole reason Emily insisted on Friday night dinners was to develop a relationship with her daughter and granddaughter. And whenever either of them missed one, she was vary upset. I think we need to remember that Emily is very old school. Appearances matter to her more than anything. Her relationship with Lorelai was also a very tumultuous one. There was a lot of history there and a lot hurt, anger and resentment that they were both struggling with. Old habits are hard to break, so yes, she did fall back into her old ways ever so often. But in the last episode, they may not have hugged but Emily was trying to loan money to Lorelai yet again to maintain the Friday night dinner arrangement because she thought that's what she needed to do to keep her daughter in her life. And Lorelai, knowing that, told her "lets talk about it at dinner on friday night". I see that as growth. At least the idea was planted that they continued to work on their relationship.

I loved that last scene with Lorelai and Emily. Emily trying to push for tennis courts at the inn was because she feared the end of FND. When Lorelai says we'll discuss it at dinner Friday you can Emily's face relax. Kelly Bishop does a great job with what she has in this part!

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

I am about to fanwank the shit out of Emily based on multiple viewings over these many years, and, oddly, reading Jessica Knoll's Luckiest Girl Alive.

Emily was born into a family whose wealth and social standing were on the fringes of the blue-blooded elite. Not that she was poor or worse, New Money, but her family didn't have quite the history and influence of her peers. They could afford the rarefied education and passed admission to the country club, but they maybe summered at home and took weekend jaunts instead of decamping to Martha's Vineyard. As such, Emily saw it as her duty to secure her social standing by marrying up, which she did. But her consciousness of being an outlier never left her, and it informs much of her behavior.

Compare Emily to those we know were born into powerful families, like Richard, Logan, and Lorelai. Those three are immediately at ease in their surroundings, regardless of whether they're at a formal event with the movers and shakers or shopping at a big box store for office supplies or hobnobbing with the cast full of quirk that is Stars Holllow. Emily can't have a conversation with someone of a working class background without making clear with every word that they are "beneath her". R, L, and L love simple food and even junk food, Emily is chagrined when she has to acquiesce anything below four star fare, and makes it a point to serve only gourmet food in her home as a statement on her knowledge about cuisine, even though we know Lorelai had something as plebeian as a Pop Tart at a schoolmate's house.

It's the height of bad manners to point out other people's social gaffes, yet Emily does so frequently, as a way of pointing out that she knows the proper protocol for any given situation. She does it even to her own daughter in front of Logan, because Logan has the higher social rank.

When Richard and Emily learn how the Huntzbergers treated Rory, Richard is upset at the blow to Rory's ego, the perceived smear against her talent, and the ramifications for her future. Emily reacts to the perception of Rory as being of too low breeding as a prospective bride for the Prince of Hartford.

Neither Emily nor Richard were thrilled with Luke as a match for Lorelai, but Emily was far more opposed and took much longer to accept the relationship than did Richard. Richard was content to pass off Luke as a restaurateur and franchise owner with some business advice, but Emily hated his blue collar background.

This is all based on the Emily of Season 3 onwards. Despite the uneven footing of Season 1 I actually think the writing there was the best for Emily. At that point she was a well bred but reasonable society matron who was willing to make concessions to reach out to her daughter (pudding, the cheesy bday gift for Rory, being gracious towards Luke). It was later, when we find out even among her own set her inability to keep a maid is a running gag, that I realized even for the upper crust her standards were exacting to the point of impossibility.

Like I said, this total fanwank based off too much time on my hands. But viewing Emily this way makes her much more sympathetic, IMO.

[JayInChicago]

It could explain why Gran/Trix was so against Richard marrying her.

[Melancholy]

Zulu, you are not alone. I've had similar instincts, but never put it into such a (well-written, persuasive) post. It's also why there's luster and history to the Gilmore family (donated wings of hospitals! many Yale generations! E/R's house is like a historical museum! Gilmore family trusts!) but you never hear anything about Emily's family pre-marriage. Although, I dunno, but invitations to a sixteen year old's birthday party trimmed with REAL pearls sounds incredibly expensive. To the point of insanity. LOL. And I do think I disagree that Emily was THAT MUCH snobbier and performative-blue blood than Richard by S3. I guess the maid issues are hard to get past and it's an area where Emily is clearly crueler and harder to please than her set, including Richard. Other than that, I think Emily's generally reasonable with just a few bad days with the exception of S5/early S6 where she was mostly shrewish.

 

However throughout the series, Emily is more paranoid about status than Richard in IMO, a combo more sympathetic way AND more horrible/annoying way than Richard sort of way that could be the result of Emily being The Wife with no role or credentials other than elegance as opposed to Richard with his intellectual and important profession and the strict standards of traditional femininity versus traditional masculinity but could also very easily stem from a less vaunted family background. 

[dustylil]

I dunno, but invitations to a sixteen year old's birthday party trimmed with REAL pearls sounds incredibly expensive

 

I believe it was for her twenty-first birthday, not her sixteenth. So a significant life milestone before she was forced into the grim tedium of marriage and family life ;) Although the pearls certainly do seem a bit much.

In her place I think I would have sent traditional invitations and a buckets of oysters so the guests could find their own pearls.

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

I think the pearls in the invitations is exactly the type of, shall we say, ostentatious display that I can't picture the matriarch of a blue blood family allowing for her daughter's party. It's not a question of affordability, but taste.

I think the somewhat jazzy, bohemian glimpse of Emily we got when Trix died might've been an echo of what her mother was like. Maybe she was an actress or dancer and her husband managed her--very glamorous to most of us, but a definitely someone who would be sneered at by old money types back in the day.

[GreenScreenFX]

I always wondered why Emily would want pearls on an invitation....that's a new money brag, people who have money down play it. Unless you are a total asshole.

[JayInChicago]

I don't even really understand how pearls could be attached and sent on a party invitation.

[dustylil]

the somewhat jazzy, bohemian glimpse of Emily we got when Trix died

 

Maybe she put herself though Smith working as a cocktail waitress.

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

Maybe she put herself though Smith working as a cocktail waitress.

How DARE you use the "C" word on this forum!

[dustylil]

I'm sorry, ZuluQueen. It was base instinct. I'm descended from those who fought on the other side during the American Revolution.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I have mommy issues myself which I think explains why I am absolutely NO fan of Emily's and pretty much find it hard to see at any turn where Lorelai can do wrong.  I was chatting with a friend about my most favourite characters (Jess, L&L together) and my least favourite (Max Medina, Rory, somewhat Dean) and I realized that Emily is my least favourite.  I guess it's just hard to face about myself when she's so popular here.  But that's the good thing about this show, it gives me insight into myself.  When Lorelai keeps her mother at arm's length or uses sarcasm/quips to distance herself from her mother, I totally get it.

 

I try to be "good" towards my mother but because this person drives me up the wall and there's so much baggage there, it is very, very hard to be good all the time around this person.  Hence, me understanding Lorelai.  I think it is a disservice to Lorelai that we don't really see how she grew up with Emily and how Emily was as a mother to a child, which maybe would give more insight into how Lorelai is towards Emily.

 

(Re)watching Season 5/6 Emily is particular atrocious but I'm wondering if I actually felt that way every season.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[dustylil]

I think it is a disservice to Lorelai that we don't really see how she grew up with Emily and how Emily was as a mother to a child, which maybe would give more insight into how Lorelai is towards Emily

 

I don't know about that. The "Big Head wants Dolly" storyline is pretty revealing. Particularly with Emily - some thirty years later - still not being aware that constantly referring to your small child's perceived physical flaw might reasonably be considered hurtful and upsetting to her.

 

 I have never understood why to Emily a family's good breeding seems to principally  involve the size of their bank account rather than any history of accomplishment or service. And that having money gives one the right to  treat those with less funds callously - be it service staff or those people who had the nerve to book the Rose Room of the Windsor Club on the day when the Gilmores wanted it. And of course her determination - uninvited -  to throw her financial resources at a problem rather than view it as an intrusion into the life of another.

 

I found it interesting of all the main characters Emily never had any substantive kicks in the teeth either through fate or the consequence of her own actions. Both Lorelai and Luke  had several over the years. Rory had a few. Lane, Sookie, Jess, and Dean, as well.  And even Richard left Floyd's firm under something of a cloud. Yet despite her hauteur and occasionally odious personality nothing much ever happened to Emily. She faced no matters where her own importance was called into question or situations where her social standing was seriously impaired. (Yes, she was hurt by Trix's letter but it was only by happenstance that she came across it and it was a matter known only to immediate family.)

 

For instance, it  would have been quite entertaining  (well, at least to me) if Emily were to learn that the vow renewal was not viewed as a tribute to their enduring marriage and  the highlight of the social season as she supposed it would be. Instead, it was the source of considerable amusement in their circle who well knew the pair had just reconciled after a separation of several months. And that some of their friends were hoping they would break up again because they threw such good "getting back together" parties. Or my own favourite (which also never came to fruition) was for Shira - far higher up the society food chain as she was - wreaking her revenge on Emily for her acerbic remarks at the DAR party. Slowly but surely Emily loses prestigious positions on charitable committees, invitations to the best parties in Hartford no longer arrive, etc. Sadly, nothing like that happened. It was as if Emily glided through life without real consequences.

[Melancholy]

The Big Head story was a parenting failure for Emily. However, it didn't really show such bad parenting that I felt Lorelai should have run away from home at 16 and cut her parents off from herself and their grand-daughter. Ditto for how maids stayed up with Lorelai when she had ear aches. However, I don't think those stories exist. At some points in the series, Emily and Richard get into "What did we do in raising you to deserve that?", and Lorelai (rather unusually for her) doesn't meet the question head-on citing some clear cut abuse or misery that necessitated a run-away. She ducks with phoney martyrdom ("I'm horrible, you love Chris. He can be your child") or a generalized ("I was unhappy") or she accuses them of being crappy people in general A LOT ("Sookie, you'll be a great parent. Hitler could have skipped having kids. Stalin too. Ditto for Richard and Emily.") 

 

I thought Emily was kicked in the teeth through the entire series, because of her choices and the roles thrust upon her. Her main jobs were as a wife and mother. Most of her role in the series was a constant humiliation and painful exercise that she doesn't have a good relationship with her daughter. Meanwhile, Lorelai is the protagonist of the show with all protagonist privilege to justify the lack of a relationship because Emily sucks. Her crappy relationship with Lorelai impaired her relationship with Rory, and then there's a S6 arc where Emily supposedly alienates Rory and the series acts like this was all Emily's fault. While her marriage with Richard was one of the happiest, most successful elements of Emily's life, throughout the series, Richard displays contempt for her and her role in life even though it was the one that he assigned to her. Richard hurts and embarrasses Emily in their marriage FAR MORE than Emily does to Richard, but Lorelai's so defined Emily as the villain, that this frequently ends up carrying the stench of Emily's fault because she's just an ornamental wife who has the nerve to not be a placid ornament. And it's a normal surprise when Lorelai sees marital dynamic through Emily's eyes- the conclusion of An Affair to Remember and I'd Rather Be in Philadelphia. 

 

I mean, I think it'd be interesting and believable if Emily's bad manners and gauche moves jeopardized her position in high society. I'm not saying that I wouldn't like it Emily bore those realistic consequences, or that it wouldn't be entertaining. However, Emily is so punished for her behavior in her crucial roles in the story (in her relationships with her family) that I don't find it significant or overly character-protective that she doesn't face it in her society life which just amounts to a little comedic color to describe her daily-goings-on instead of the meat of her story and significance on Gilmore Girls. 

[cantbeflapped]

I have mommy issues myself which I think explains why I am absolutely NO fan of Emily's and pretty much find it hard to see at any turn where Lorelai can do wrong.  I was chatting with a friend about my most favourite characters (Jess, L&L together) and my least favourite (Max Medina, Rory, somewhat Dean) and I realized that Emily is my least favourite.  I guess it's just hard to face about myself when she's so popular here.  But that's the good thing about this show, it gives me insight into myself.  When Lorelai keeps her mother at arm's length or uses sarcasm/quips to distance herself from her mother, I totally get it.

 

I try to be "good" towards my mother but because this person drives me up the wall and there's so much baggage there, it is very, very hard to be good all the time around this person.  Hence, me understanding Lorelai.  I think it is a disservice to Lorelai that we don't really see how she grew up with Emily and how Emily was as a mother to a child, which maybe would give more insight into how Lorelai is towards Emily.

 

(Re)watching Season 5/6 Emily is particular atrocious but I'm wondering if I actually felt that way every season.

I think, for myself anyway, Kelly Bishop and the way she plays the role is what is so popular here, not Emily. For example, I'm hoping to see lots of Emily in the revival, not because I find the character lovable or even likable, but because the writers and Kelly Bishop have made her very interesting to watch....and an important part of Lorelai's story.

I hear you on the mommy issues. Emily reminds me so much of my own I find it uncomfortable to watch sometimes. Funny thing is, when my mom watches (I got her started on the show) I can almost guarantee you she sees her mom...who was also very critical and controlling. (Thankfully I only have sons so no chance to continue those unhealthy mother/daughter dynamics.)