Spoilers and Spoiler Speculation: Benchmarking

[OtterMommy]

1 minute ago, BaseOps said:

Slightly new info from the full 13x22 press release; "Stephanie and Ben make decisions that could affect their careers". Obviously Steph needs to be written out, but I wonder what it could be for Ben? He and Bailey have been really stable lately, and it seems like the writers have even gone out of their way to give them some nice scenes together. Could he be leaving too? 

My guess is that Ben might consider going back to anesthesiology.  I don't know if that would take him out from under Bailey professionally, but it might at least equalize their relationship a bit (plus, I've always found Ben the Resident to be hard to believe....)

[Bort]

Probably more like they each make a career decision - Stephanie's takes her to a new job somewhere else, while Ben's is one that has him stay put. Aren't their residencies over soon? Accepting fellowships/attending positions?

[OtterMommy]

2 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

Probably more like they each make a career decision - Stephanie's takes her to a new job somewhere else, while Ben's is one that has him stay put. Aren't their residencies over soon? Accepting fellowships/attending positions?

I've forgotten how long they've been residents (and with the time jump that sort of disappeared, I don't think anyone knows), but if this were the case, I'm going to have to agree with @Chas411 that it would be absurd for Stephanie and Ben to be in the position to make such decisions, but not Jo.

[Bort]

51 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

I've forgotten how long they've been residents (and with the time jump that sort of disappeared, I don't think anyone knows), but if this were the case, I'm going to have to agree with @Chas411 that it would be absurd for Stephanie and Ben to be in the position to make such decisions, but not Jo.

Jo could also have such a decision to make and the blurb just didn't mention her. Or the show forgot to include her. Both of those options are highly likely.

[Chas411]

Mathew Alan -Camilla Luddingtons baby daddy (and long term boyfriend) - has been cast in Episode 13x22. Not much information on who he'll play other then that the pictures she put up on Instagram he's in scenes with Stephanie.

[Deanie87]

21 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

My guess is that, yes, we will see Jo again, at least briefly.  I don't know how they'd introduce the character we believe to be the ex without her.  The filming order this season was especially wonky, so I'm sure that she had pre-filmed some scenes.

 

I don't know...I can see how they could create a situation where Ben and Stephanie independently make career decisions which wouldn't include Jo and it would make sense.  However, my gut feeling is that Steph's decision is professional and Ben's is personal (again, based on nothing more than my gut...)

I thought that the going theory was that the husband is introduced while Jo is off...somewhere, so other people meet him and like him and then in the last seconds of the finale we realize he is the husband.  But now I"m not so sure.  Ausiello initially reported that he would be there for a 4 episode arc, but that seems to have been reduced to 2.  So either they cut a bunch of stuff or it will get rolled over into next season.  Or both.  At any rate, it would justify not having Camilla on for more than a few minutes at a time.  As far as the residents, they could just stick her in general (even though there are already like 6 people in general if you count Owen and April) and she decides offscreen to stay at SGH and it never needs to be addressed, no screentime needed.  Its not like they ever gave her a mentor beyond a promising couple of episodes with Callie back in season 10, or any real interest in a specialty (or really medicine in general LOL), so no biggie.  

I'm not saying that she won't have a scene or two here or there, but I have no confidence that she will play any real role in the husband storyline this season, or in anything going on with Stephanie or even Alex.  Maybe a scene with DeLuca.   Every time I think that they can't possibly ignore her past/marriage/identity/domestic violence, etc., anymore...they manage to do it, or at least shoot the horse further dead, with no answers provided at all. The writers have made it clear that they have no interest in writing for Jo and now they have an excuse not to.  I hope that I am proven wrong, but I'm not counting on it.  The next couple of episodes at least seem to be very Maggie and Maggie/Mer/Nathan centric yet again, so I guess we'll see something maybe in the final two, at least for Alex.  I'm sure Meredith, Maggie or Amelia will need some bucking up, if nothing else. /Bitter.

[Pink ranger]

29 minutes ago, Deanie87 said:

I thought that the going theory was that the husband is introduced while Jo is off...somewhere, so other people meet him and like him and then in the last seconds of the finale we realize he is the husband.  But now I"m not so sure.  Ausiello initially reported that he would be there for a 4 episode arc, but that seems to have been reduced to 2.  So either they cut a bunch of stuff or it will get rolled over into next season.  Or both.  

It doesn't strike me as a good idea to plan a significant storyline for a pregnant actress within a month of her being due. But maybe at the time of Ausiellos spoiler that was the plan but then the practicalities caught up with them?

[Deanie87]

20 minutes ago, Pink ranger said:

It doesn't strike me as a good idea to plan a significant storyline for a pregnant actress within a month of her being due. But maybe at the time of Ausiellos spoiler that was the plan but then the practicalities caught up with them?

But what about the drama and thrillzz for the finale?  Can't have this storyline take place anytime during the season when the actress is available or before it has been drawn out to the point that no one cares!  It must be used for the drama and thrillz of the finale!  And if the actress isn't available, that's fine, we'll just make the story about Alex, he's popular now.  At least that's my assumption of the thought process.

[tapplum]

2 hours ago, Deanie87 said:

I'm not saying that she won't have a scene or two here or there, but I have no confidence that she will play any real role in the husband storyline this season, or in anything going on with Stephanie or even Alex.  Maybe a scene with DeLuca.   Every time I think that they can't possibly ignore her past/marriage/identity/domestic violence, etc., anymore...they manage to do it, or at least shoot the horse further dead, with no answers provided at all. The writers have made it clear that they have no interest in writing for Jo

This is what's so baffling. If they have no interest in writing for her (and they've made it painfully clear that they don't) then why in the name of god is she still on the show? Write for her or don't, but do one or the other and do it properly: either give her a real pov and do justice to her storyline, or cut your losses and write her out. It's not like she's a hugely popular charcter whose loss would threaten ratings.

[DearEvette]

1 hour ago, Pink ranger said:

It doesn't strike me as a good idea to plan a significant storyline for a pregnant actress within a month of her being due. But maybe at the time of Ausiellos spoiler that was the plan but then the practicalities caught up with them?

That feels like my thought as well.  It feels obvious that they had been planning for Jo's husband's story arc.   And even the Maggie/Mer/Nathan (gag) triangle might have been a victim of this.  It just seems like those stories got a bit derailed by the actresses' availability.  And given how Camilla, Ellen and Caterina all had to be out at various times and places,  trying to create any longer story arc that involved any one of them and planning shooting schedules for them and the rest of the cast probably became a logistical nightmare.  Pre-shooting scenes can only take you so far if the actors aren't available for re-shoots or specific sets have to be redone or script changes for earlier episodes occur.  It is probably why we are seeing so many bottle episodes and episodes with smaller groups  or one-off contained stories and fore-fronting characters whose actors are more readily available.

[Pink ranger]

Hopefully it will all settle down now and these storylines can be picked up again next season when the proper time can be dedicated to them.

These sound like promising stories if they are excecuted well.

[BaseOps]

Yea, no other season has ever contained so many bottle episodes. People underestimate how tough it would be to work around 2 pregnancies and 3 maternity leaves while also having 14 regular actors to co-ordinate. 

Ep. 8 - Featuring Meredith, Owen, Richard, and Stephanie

Ep. 10 - Featuring Jo, Bailey, and Arizona

Ep. 13 - Focused mostly on Richard / April / Jackson + Eliza / Catharine, though others do appear (no Meredith, Alex, or Amelia)

Ep. 16 - Featuring Jackson & April 

Ep. 20 - Featuring Meredith & Riggs 

This is the first time in 13 seasons that Ellen Pompeo has not appeared in every single episode; she has been absent from 3 this year. Out of 20 episodes so far, the cast have appeared in the following # of episodes each: Meredith, Bailey, Richard, Owen, Jackson, Riggs (17) - Ben, Maggie, Steph (16) - Alex, Jo, Amelia, Arizona, April (15), DeLuca (14). 

Edited April 18, 2017 by BaseOps

[GSMHvisitor]

14 hours ago, DearEvette said:

And given how Camilla, Ellen and Caterina all had to be out at various times and places,  trying to create any longer story arc that involved any one of them and planning shooting schedules for them and the rest of the cast probably became a logistical nightmare.  Pre-shooting scenes can only take you so far if the actors aren't available for re-shoots or specific sets have to be redone or script changes for earlier episodes occur.

And yet it seems like only Camilla's/Jo's storyline had to suffer a major blow from these BTS scheduling issues. Meredith's story with Riggs got interrupted, but it's not like she had nothing to do in the meantime, she had the Alex SL where she was a major part of (unlike Jo :/). Now her story with Riggs is picking up again. Ellen might have missed a few episodes, but it never felt like Meredith was actually missing or that her storyline had completely disappeared, because her thing with Riggs was a will-they-won't-they story all along.

Same with Caterina/Amelia. Granted, her storyline with Owen is a mess, but that is, I suppose, more due to the writers wanting to save the resolution for the final few episodes, so they're stalling it. Stalling it in a really stupid way by making them have really stupid fights, but at least we see them interact, at least we see that there are still feelings for each other. Caterina might have missed a few episodes, because she had a baby, but it never felt like the Omelia story was actually dropped. Shonda confirmed that her scenes at Stephanie's appartment were pre-filmed months before they aired.

So why didn't they try harder to make Camilla's schedule work? I get that it's difficult to juggle all the maternity leaves, but why is it always, always Jo's character who has to suffer from BTS issues? It's the third season where she basically has nothing to do. The difference is, this time they actually gave her a story to tell, one that's delicate and important on top of it, and still, they chose to prioritize other things. And then Camilla had her baby and here we are again...

In showtime it must have been MONTHS since Jo told Alex about her secret husband and we have yet to see a proper reaction from Alex or a talk between them about everything. Seriously, who tells a story like that? Who thinks it's a good idea to drop this bomb and then not let the characters follow up on it?

Like I said, it seems to me that it's always Jo's character who suffers most from BTS stuff. They manage to more or less make it work for all the other characters, but Jo's & Jolex's story gets postponed season after season. And I'm done looking for excuses. If the writers really wanted to make it work, if they really cared about Jo's story, they would have found a way to tell it.

But I'm sure s14 will finally be Jo's and Alex's&Jo's season. Until the next BTS crisis ofc...

[Deanie87]

Quote

But I'm sure s14 will finally be Jo's and Alex's&Jo's season. Until the next BTS crisis ofc...

And that would be the impending writer's strike.  It's always somethin'!

Quote

Same with Caterina/Amelia. Granted, her storyline with Owen is a mess, but that is, I suppose, more due to the writers wanting to save the resolution for the final few episodes, so they're stalling it. Stalling it in a really stupid way by making them have really stupid fights, but at least we see them interact, at least we see that there are still feelings for each other. Caterina might have missed a few episodes, because she had a baby, but it never felt like the Omelia story was actually dropped. Shonda confirmed that her scenes at Stephanie's appartment were pre-filmed months before they aired.

And as far as I remember, both the Mer/Riggs and Amelia/Owen storylines really started in full last season.  Jo has been hinting about a violent past since season 9 and they have been debating marriage since season 10.  It's ridiculous.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Deanie87

[DearEvette]

That assumes that the three women's planned storylines were all going to require the same amount of presence and commitment, though.  Or that their maternity experiences were all the same or they all happened at the the most inconvenient time in their respective story-lines.

There could have been a lot of extenuating circumstances that worked against them doing anything major with Jo's husband storyline.  Maybe the timing of her particular pregnancy was at the least convenient time for shooting schedules?  If it was going to be a long, ongoing arc with a lot of time she would need to commit, maybe just she wasn't physically up to long gruelling shoots?  Or maybe the nature of the storyline was such that they simply couldn't conveniently shoot her behind strategically placed items for weeks and weeks on end? 

Although Ellen Pompeo has not confirmed, it seems like maybe her third baby was also a via a surrogate?  In which case the logistics of shooting Meredith would not be the same.  There was no pregnancy to hide or shoot around.  And her absence may not have been as long a duration.  Meredith was not the center of any storyline except the (gag) triangle, but rather a supporting character in Alex's.  And it is probably the reason why the Mer/Nathan thing isn't working because rather than being a real thing that was well developed over time the (gag) triangle, just became a series of odd scenes of Nathan cornering Meredith in rooms to talk about it.

It just seems to me that given the amount of build up they were giving her storyline and the supposed importance of it, it just wasn't something they could drop random scenes into. If I were a Jo fan I would prefer they took their time and did the story some justice instead of throwing in some janky scenes here and there that would ultimately make the story come off looking thrown together.

[Deanie87]

13 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

That assumes that the three women's planned storylines were all going to require the same amount of presence and commitment, though.  Or that their maternity experiences were all the same or they all happened at the the most inconvenient time in their respective story-lines.

There could have been a lot of extenuating circumstances that worked against them doing anything major with Jo's husband storyline.  Maybe the timing of her particular pregnancy was at the least convenient time for shooting schedules?  If it was going to be a long, ongoing arc with a lot of time she would need to commit, maybe just she wasn't physically up to long gruelling shoots?  Or maybe the nature of the storyline was such that they simply couldn't conveniently shoot her behind strategically placed items for weeks and weeks on end? 

Although Ellen Pompeo has not confirmed, it seems like maybe her third baby was also a via a surrogate?  In which case the logistics of shooting Meredith would not be the same.  There was no pregnancy to hide or shoot around.  And her absence may not have been as long a duration.  Meredith was not the center of any storyline except the (gag) triangle, but rather a supporting character in Alex's.  And it is probably the reason why the Mer/Nathan thing isn't working because rather than being a real thing that was well developed over time the (gag) triangle, just became a series of odd scenes of Nathan cornering Meredith in rooms to talk about it.

It just seems to me that given the amount of build up they were giving her storyline and the supposed importance of it, it just wasn't something they could drop random scenes into. If I were a Jo fan I would prefer they took their time and did the story some justice instead of throwing in some janky scenes here and there that would ultimately make the story come off looking thrown together.

Yes, there could be many valid reasons for how things went.  The problem is I don't care about their excuses anymore and they don't work for me.  If this were the first time this happened, then OK.  But after everything was dropped for Dempsey in season 11 and whatever the hell it was last season, I just don't want to hear any excuses at all, no matter how valid (I mean from the writers not you, of course :)  The Jo/Alex relationship and Jo's backstory should have been a top priority this season given how disjointed and non-existent their storyline has been in the last two seasons, moreso than other characters.  So at this point, its just that its always something and I am convinced that if it was a real priority, and if they didn't insist on fitting their storylines around cliffhanger finales and premieres, then the story would have progressed by now.  I know that this season has been bad for a lot of characters, but it is the third season in a row that this this has happened to Jo and Alex and both characters have suffered to the point that Alex is practically Nanny McPhee/Blanche Deveroux (right down to eating lasagna instead of cheesecake) and fans are literally hoping that Jo gets beaten to death by the husband should he ever appear.   It has been going on in some fashion for multiple seasons now, and yet somehow, many other stories have progressed and even been resolved in that time.  If I thought that it was going to be some great story because they were taking their time with it, then maybe it would be worth it.  But at this point, I would rather them just slap something together (since that is probably what they will do anyway) so we can all get on with our lives.

[funnygirl]

The thing about Camilla's pregnancy, though, is that they didn't need to write around her or write her out until the last handful of episodes of the season. So by the end of February at the latest, assuming she gave birth end of March or beginning of April. The show wrapped the week of April 7th, therefore, there is absolutely no excuse and no reason as to why Jo and Jolex's big story couldn't have been fleshed out and worked through within the first 20 episodes of the season. 

Actually, working around Ellen and Caterina midway through 13A because of their maternity leaves should've opened up even more time to focus on Jo/Jolex and resolved that portion of their story then, knowing that Ellen and Caterina would be readily available for the back half of the season while Camilla would not. 

It comes down to poor planning, period. And their need to drag things out to have big "exciting" premieres and finales, only it leaves for sloppy and uneven storytelling and a boring middle-of-the-season. 

[flickers]

Jo's always going to be a fourth-string character, though. It's never been an equal ensemble, some characters are leads and some characters are supporting- I think they chose poorly with the ones they've designated to be the most important (the sisterhood, ugh) but that's TV, isn't it?

[betsyboo]

On 4/8/2017 at 0:16 AM, OtterMommy said:

Why does every character on this show need to be in the midst of some relationship angst?  Really?  And, if they absolutely must all be in romantically involved with someone, do they all seem to think that they are limited to the GSMMWSGH dating pool? (Still miffed that Meredith chose Derek over Finn......)  

I cannot see Jackson and Maggie together.  The only reason I could see they would do this is to somehow extricate Jackson from April so that Jesse Williams could leave the show..

I love you.  Be my best friend.

[GSMHvisitor]

4 hours ago, DearEvette said:

There could have been a lot of extenuating circumstances that worked against them doing anything major with Jo's husband storyline.  Maybe the timing of her particular pregnancy was at the least convenient time for shooting schedules?  If it was going to be a long, ongoing arc with a lot of time she would need to commit, maybe just she wasn't physically up to long gruelling shoots?  Or maybe the nature of the storyline was such that they simply couldn't conveniently shoot her behind strategically placed items for weeks and weeks on end? 

It just seems to me that given the amount of build up they were giving her storyline and the supposed importance of it, it just wasn't something they could drop random scenes into. If I were a Jo fan I would prefer they took their time and did the story some justice instead of throwing in some janky scenes here and there that would ultimately make the story come off looking thrown together.

I agree and I don't. I could cut them some slack for postponing the husband story (as in postponing the actual introduction of the husband). But aside from the fact that, just like others, I'm sick of cutting the writers slack for neglecting Jo's and Jolex's story over and over, there's one thing I just cannot excuse: Why did we never even get 1 proper talk between Alex and Jo about everything? It's been 11 episodes and months in show time, since Jo told Alex her deepest and most painful secret, but we never got a follow-up talk on it and that pisses me off.

If they couldn't make their big plans work for Jo's storyline (and I'm not even sure anymore if there ever were big plans) due to Camilla's pregnancy, why not give this story at least some sort of semi-resolution in the meantime? Have Alex and Jo talk things through, show them interact and then decide whether they still want to try with each other or decide to call it quits, because things are too complicated. If they'd done the first, Alex and Jo could have been happy off-screen (like the supposedly were for most of s11 & s12 anyways). Or, if they'd decided to do the latter and break them up properly then there would have at least been an actual reason for why we never see them interact anymore.

And they could have still brought in the husband by the end of the season to stir up new trouble for happy Alex&Jo, or in the other case, use him to bring them back together again.

But instead they just dropped this storyline completely and we have absolutely no insight in how Jo and Alex feel about each other at this point.

I get that writing a TV show is difficult and there are many factors to consider, but I'm sure they knew about Camilla's pregnancy early enough to  be able to write in some sort of closure for Alex and Jo. But I guess writing any sort of closure into middle-of-season episodes is too much to ask on Grey's Anatomy.

Edited April 19, 2017 by GSMHvisitor

[Chas411]

I'm waiting for the inevitable interview where Shonda, Betsy or whoever excuse it with "oh we had such big plans for Jo, Jolex this year but then Camilla got pregnant and we just couldn't make it work" as though they haven't facilitated a pregnancy per season at this point. 

It's such a joke. As one of the minority who actually like Jo it sucks seeing her pushed to the back time and time again. They've shown they devote screentime and provide backstory to their preferred characters ie Maggie so there's absolutely no reason it can't be done except for the simple fact the there just not bothered.

Instead we get Japril and Omelia having the same fight over and over. Maggie acting like a two year old, Meredith and Riggs not having any sort of rootable interaction and Alex doormatting all over the show. 

Edited April 19, 2017 by Chas411

[BaseOps]

10 hours ago, GSMHvisitor said:

And yet it seems like only Camilla's/Jo's storyline had to suffer a major blow from these BTS scheduling issues. Meredith's story with Riggs got interrupted, but it's not like she had nothing to do in the meantime, she had the Alex SL where she was a major part of (unlike Jo :/). Now her story with Riggs is picking up again. Ellen might have missed a few episodes, but it never felt like Meredith was actually missing or that her storyline had completely

 

 

I 100% disagree. Meredith / Riggs was totally forgotten about basically after episode 4 and not brought up again until episode 15.  Meredith was not only absent from 3 episodes but basically had nothing to do for several others. The dropped 'triangle' storyline was one of the first things that people noticed this season. 

[Deanie87]

31 minutes ago, BaseOps said:

I 100% disagree. Meredith / Riggs was totally forgotten about basically after episode 4 and not brought up again until episode 15.  Meredith was not only absent from 3 episodes but basically had nothing to do for several others. The dropped 'triangle' storyline was one of the first things that people noticed this season. 

Ok but this didn't come after two full seasons of the very same thing. My problem is that we are going on 3 seasons now of all of this being unresolved and 3 seasons of TPTB promoting "big things are coming" for Jolex only for it all to get dropped or stalled because of one thing or another.  So there really isnt much comparison to Meredith, Riggs, Amelia or Owen, IMO.

Season 11 was a disaster, but I got that things were tough with Dempsey, etc. So I figured, Ok season 12 will be better, but then it wasn't.  In the months leading up to this season, Camilla, Shonda, Caterina and Ellen talked about the importance of domestic violence and how they were going to tackle that issue and was sensitive and how will it affect Alex given his history and Camilla bought a book about it and blah, blah, blah.  And then Alex beat the shit out of DeLuca and Jo told him the secret and then...nothing.  One episode of Jo with a patient, but no fallout from everything else.  Maybe in the last couple of episodes, maybe next season, maybe there will be a writer's strike, maybe 3 actors will be hired to replace Jerrika and then all the screentime will go to them.  Who can say?

Edited April 19, 2017 by Deanie87

[BaseOps]

I totally agree, I'm just saying that this season Jo and Alex are far from the only characters to suffer from stunted / dropped storylines. It has been messy all around. I think they've had some great episodes, but on a whole it's been a mess. Last season ended with 4 major stories up in the air; Amelia marrying Owen, Meredith / Riggs / Maggie, Alex / Jo / DeLuca, and Jackson and April having a baby while being broken up. None of those stories have had any real resolution. At least Alex got a ton of screentime out of it early on, but I agree that it wasn't dealt with how it needed to be. I do think that Alex's story was the best and most complete storyline of the season so far - which is really saying something - but Jo was mostly left out of it. I'm really looking to the last 4 episodes to course correct. 

[upperco]

Obviously the actress' pregnancy has limited the character's presence in the back half of the season. (I imagine Luddington was shooting ahead while 1317, 1318, and 1319 were in production, so we'll see more of her, but still in a reduced capacity.)

However, I think the slow, stretched plotting in the Alex/Jo storyline was an inevitability even before the blessed event. The structure is typical Grey's: conflict established in S12's finale, mostly resolved by mid-S13, with the next big development coming at the end of the year, building upon what was introduced a whole season before. Treading water in between sweeps is what this show typically does with a 24 episode order and a cast of 15; it's happening everywhere -- Meredith and Riggs are just now getting their mid-year story beats. 

This homogenized plotting is glaring in the Alex/Jo storyline, in particular, because the arc was too rich and character-centric to endure both this jerky story-driven treatment and Luddington's pregnancy-imposed screentime reduction. It had the most potential -- and therefore, represents the year's most wasted potential. But then again, I don't know why we expect anything different... 

Edited April 19, 2017 by upperco

[beautifulGA]

I think it's unfair to blame Camilla's pregnancy on lack of Jolex story line. Jessica got the major sl of Calzona court room fight while Jessica was gloriously pregnant last season. If I remember, she was pregnant during Herman arc as well? Arizona fans complain that she doesn't get sl but if look closely she has some major arcs over season. Her character has got a central focus this past season. Just this season only, how many fetal cases have been there...so I feel that the only thing is that the writers don't know what to do with Jolex. They want Alex as Meredith's pet and Jolex sl just doesn't fits with that. And it won't until Alex's first priority isn't Jo. So it's like they have hit a rock. They throw some cheap drama and thrills here and there in their sl but that relationship lacks depth.

Edited April 21, 2017 by beautifulGA

[Rose-1]

11 hours ago, beautifulGA said:

I think it's unfair to blame Camilla's pregnancy on lack of Jolex story line. Jessica got the major sl of Calzona court room fight while Jessica was gloriously pregnant last season. If I remember, she was pregnant during Herman arc as well? Arizona fans complain that she doesn't get sl but if look closely she has some major arcs over season. Her character has got a central focus this past season. Just this season only, how many fetal cases have been there...so I feel that the only thing is that the writers don't know what to do with Jolex. They want Alex as Meredith's pet and Jolex sl just doesn't fits with that. And it won't until Alex's first priority isn't Jo. So it's like they have hit a rock. They throw some cheap drama and thrills here and there in their sl but that relationship lacks depth.

Exactly, and I just don't understand why they have done what they've done to Alex and Meredith, with Alex's character in particular, because  Cristina was her 'person' (I fully loathe that sentiment now) and she never had to lay down like a doormat and take all of merediths crap! Or Be nothing more than an ear piece and the sister wife that they've turned Alex into. And I'm speaking generally here over the last 3 seasons. I just don't get it, because doing it benefits NO ONE. Alex obviously, because he is allowed zero personal life of his own - it's ignored so much it's embarrassing - but also Meredith because she looks like such a selfish, callous person..  and obviously Jo, who had some pretty valid grievances over the last 2 years, yet  was made out to be the biggest witch to ever pass though the doors Of grey sloan. There's just nothing there that I have any interest in watching. They had so much potential with jolex, especially this season and once again they've ruined it - and what's worse is that what they've given us instead is just total garbage! So beyond frustrated 

[BaseOps]

Here we go. 

13x23 - True Colors - The doctors of Grey Sloan encounter a difficult case involving a dangerous patient; Owen receives life-changing news that pushes Amelia to step up to support him; Alex attends a medical conference after making a shocking discovery.

Owen's sister? Jo's husband? Hmmmm...
 

Edited April 22, 2017 by BaseOps

[StaceyNotStacie]

4 hours ago, BaseOps said:

Here we go. 

13x23 - True Colors - The doctors of Grey Sloan encounter a difficult case involving a dangerous patient; Owen receives life-changing news that pushes Amelia to step up to support him; Alex attends a medical conference after making a shocking discovery.

Owen's sister? Jo's husband? Hmmmm...
 

I wonder if Owen's mom has a health crisis or passes away. 

[OtterMommy]

5 hours ago, BaseOps said:

Here we go. 

13x23 - True Colors - The doctors of Grey Sloan encounter a difficult case involving a dangerous patient; Owen receives life-changing news that pushes Amelia to step up to support him; Alex attends a medical conference after making a shocking discovery.

Owen's sister? Jo's husband? Hmmmm...
 

If it is Owen's sister and/or Jo's husband, I will be gobsmacked.  I never saw either of those coming....

....(sarcasm should be evident)....

[Pink ranger]

Is it unusual that Matthew Morrison isn't listed as a guest star in the press release?

The photos that spoiled him on set saw his character and Alex at what looked like a medical conference. I am almost sure that he is in this episode.   

Edited April 22, 2017 by Pink ranger

[BaseOps]

In Owen's case it could be a few things; he's sick, his mother is sick / dies, perhaps an army friends dies?, or his sister is found - dead or alive. In Alex's case, he's almost definitely going to meet Jo's husband. 

[BaseOps]

From EW: 

Gird your loins: In true Shondaland fashion, Grey's Anatomy is prepping for an epic event in the season 13 finale. "There's actually two events going on at the same time that are pretty big that affect the entire hospital community," says EP Debbie Allen, teasing that many relationships will either be embroiled or solidified as a result — Alex (Justin Chambers) must make a hard decision in his relationship with Jo (Camilla Luddington), while Meredith (Ellen Pompeo) has some news for Riggs (Martin Henderson) that brings their relationship to a turning point. But there could also be lives that hang in the balance "You should be worried," Allen cautions. "There's cause for worry. There's an amazing cliffhanger that will have everybody thinking, 'Wow, where is this going?!'" Don't freak out (or do!), but there's actually several, which "plant more seeds that fuel the fire for what is going to happen next season," Allen says. Probably best to watch with tissues and tequila! 

Edited April 24, 2017 by BaseOps

[Chas411]

They haven't had scenes in months but now Alex has a tough decision to make about Jo. Seriously show... Just do one at this point. I assume they're planning to put the final nail in the coffin since I can't imagine what else it could be given they've had no scenes. 

Edited April 24, 2017 by Chas411

[Scatterbrained]

On 4/15/2017 at 3:49 PM, Nobodysfan said:

Sorry, been away, it took me  a long time to respond, this is a possibility.  However, wouldn´t Riggs be the father or maybe not?

The way I see it, it could go either way.  If it's not Rigg's baby, then Owen would be next of kin (assuming his sister died, or is in a coma, or something AND the "baby daddy" is unknown, or dead, or also lost).  There could be drama over whether or not the kid is Riggs', and whether he wants to be an ista-dad right now, or not.

 

 

 

So, several cliffhangers....  Hmmm....

And at least two major events in the finale....

Go big or go home, I guess!

Edited April 24, 2017 by Scatterbrained

[OtterMommy]

Why are we so sure that Meredith's news is that she's pregnant?  Maybe it could be that she knows the whereabouts of Owen's presumed-dead-but-still-alive-sister?  Maybe she realized that Riggs is her long-lost brother?  Maybe she realized that she has to be married in 24 hours or else she loses out on a surprise $1B inheritance?

Yeah, those are all stupid and (other than the first one) outlandish ideas, but they really aren't any worse than YET ANOTHER BABY (which I will admit that is what it sounds like).  I guess I'm going to have to stock my family room with lots of soft objects that won't hurt my television if (oh, hell..WHEN) I hurl them across the room.

Look Meredith already has 3 children whose existence is questionable...another one?  And, you know what, this show has had far, far, far too many surprise pregnancies for a group of characters who really, really, really should know better.

You know, I had resigned myself to the nonsensical Meredith/Riggs relationship (only because, if I had to rank Grey's relationships, this would be in the top two or three...which isn't saying much....).  But I know that I'll give up any shred of goodwill I have to this couple if Grey's goes down this road....yet again....

[funnygirl]

Meredith being pregnant and having Nathan's baby would be a slap in the face. It's not necessary, and I really hope the show never goes there. 

[BaseOps]

Owen's niece, perhaps? 

[Scatterbrained]

1 hour ago, OtterMommy said:

Why are we so sure that Meredith's news is that she's pregnant?  Maybe it could be that she knows the whereabouts of Owen's presumed-dead-but-still-alive-sister?  Maybe she realized that Riggs is her long-lost brother?  Maybe she realized that she has to be married in 24 hours or else she loses out on a surprise $1B inheritance?

Yeah, those are all stupid and (other than the first one) outlandish ideas, but they really aren't any worse than YET ANOTHER BABY (which I will admit that is what it sounds like).  I guess I'm going to have to stock my family room with lots of soft objects that won't hurt my television if (oh, hell..WHEN) I hurl them across the room.

Look Meredith already has 3 children whose existence is questionable...another one?  And, you know what, this show has had far, far, far too many surprise pregnancies for a group of characters who really, really, really should know better.

You know, I had resigned myself to the nonsensical Meredith/Riggs relationship (only because, if I had to rank Grey's relationships, this would be in the top two or three...which isn't saying much....).  But I know that I'll give up any shred of goodwill I have to this couple if Grey's goes down this road....yet again....

I agree.  They featured Zola a lot in earlier years, each new child gets less and less air time and script importance.  I don't really need to see the kids, but it is weird when they are so seldom mentioned (and Mer has so many adults living with her that the absence of children could always be explained as "they're of at the park, or running errands with...").  Another phantom child would not be a bonus.

i wonder if Owen's sister will be found but not actually appear in the episode.  I can imagine that what would make Meredith most happy is to hear that Derek is not dead and she can go to him at X location.  The second best thing would probably be to give that news to Riggs because she would know how much it means and how happy it would make him. 

Edited April 24, 2017 by Scatterbrained

[BaseOps]

I've spoken to someone who's seen the next two episodes (though I was told that episode 13x23 wasn't totally done editing) and apparently they're both very strong and bring about a lot of change, particularly 12x23. I believe the producers know that this season has been perceived as a bit stagnant, and the mission for the finale is basically to turn things on their head and launch new stories for next year. Camilla was absent from the last several episodes because she was filming a bunch of scenes ahead for the final 2 episodes.

[tua20782]

22 minutes ago, BaseOps said:

I've spoken to someone who's seen the next two episodes (though I was told that episode 13x23 wasn't totally done editing) and apparently they're both very strong and bring about a lot of change, particularly 12x23. I believe the producers know that this season has been perceived as a bit stagnant, and the mission for the finale is basically to turn things on their head and launch new stories for next year. Camilla was absent from the last several episodes because she was filming a bunch of scenes ahead for the final 2 episodes.

Strong for which characters? If you don't mind sharing

[funnygirl]

1 hour ago, BaseOps said:

and the mission for the finale is basically to turn things on their head and launch new stories for next year. Camilla was absent from the last several episodes because she was filming a bunch of scenes ahead for the final 2 episodes.

That's the intention for every season finale, to launch new stories for the next season. 

But good to know that Jo won't be MIA for the final episodes, that makes sense seeing as her ex (Matthew Morrison) is showing up. Thank you for sharing. 

Edited April 28, 2017 by funnygirl

[BaseOps]

19 minutes ago, funnygirl said:

That's the intention for every season finale, to launch new stories for the next season. 

But good to know that Jo won't be MIA for the final episodes, that makes sense seeing as her ex (Matthew Morrison) is showing up. Thank you for sharing. 

 

 

Yea, I guess I should have phrased that better - I mean they want to introduce stories that will actually shake up the dynamics. Last year nothing from the finale had much real impact aside from the Alex / Jo story. April had a baby that has been forgotten and she and Jackson have made 0 progress this season, Meredith and Riggs had sex in 12x23 and then didn't make any real movement until 12x20, etc. This season has felt basically just like treading water, and I'm told the intention is to really throw some big wrenches into the storylines. 

1 hour ago, tua20782 said:

Strong for which characters? If you don't mind sharing

It wasn't really specified but I'm told both are very Alex-heavy. 

[Chas411]

Change usually means new hook ups etc... I'm back on the fear train that they'll hook up Alex with Maggie. Especially now that they seem to be committing to Mer/Riggs. 

Poor Camilla, even if she's been filming loads of scenes i doubt they've given her anything more then the already abysmal writing of the beginning of the season. It's so obvious they've no interest so I assume the idea of finally giving Jolex a few scenes after a season of nothing is to finally put the nail in the coffin.

 

...bitterness thy name is Chas...

[BaseOps]

Camilla herself said that she didn't have the easiest pregnancy. I believe she was written even lighter than intended (hence literally disappearing for weeks), so once the final scripts were ready they had her pre-shooting right away. I still wouldn't expect to see a ton of her again until next year, but that part is just a guess.

[Pinecone]

If they can give me an evil ex who knows exactly who Alex is, what name Jo's been living under, and what she's been up to, I can start to forgive this mess of a storyline. Some actual menace to make Alex Karev pee himself, please. Otherwise, I can't with this milk toast show anymore. 

[flickers]

4 hours ago, BaseOps said:

I've spoken to someone who's seen the next two episodes (though I was told that episode 13x23 wasn't totally done editing) and apparently they're both very strong and bring about a lot of change, particularly 12x23. I believe the producers know that this season has been perceived as a bit stagnant, and the mission for the finale is basically to turn things on their head and launch new stories for next year.

Praise the Dog!

[flickers]

2 hours ago, Chas411 said:

eChange usually means new hook ups etc... I'm back on the fear train that they'll hook up Alex with Maggie. Especially now that they seem to be committing to Mer/Riggs. 

Poor Camilla, even if she's been filming loads of scenes i doubt they've given her anything more then the already abysmal writing of the beginning of the season. It's so obvious they've no interest so I assume the idea of finally giving Jolex a few scenes after a season of nothing is to finally put the nail in the coffin.

 

...bitterness thy name is Chas...

Nah, they wouldn't bother getting into the whole ex-husband thing if Alex was truly done with Jo. I see Maggie setting her sights on Jackson next (gag me)

Edited April 28, 2017 by flickers

[Deanie87]

53 minutes ago, flickers said:

Nah, they wouldn't bother getting into the whole ex-husband thing if Alex was truly done with Jo. I see Maggie setting her sights on Jackson next (gag me)

I agree, I am as bitter as they come, but if the writers weren't interested in going ahead with Jo and Alex then they would just never speak of them again.  They wouldn't actually waste their time filming a break up.  Thankfully, I don't ever think Maggie and Alex will happen.  My big worry right now is that they are pushing everything to season 14 and if the strike does come to pass, then I have no reason to think that Jo and Alex won't bear the brunt of it.  The past three seasons have shown that they are the most expendable.  

[Catznip]

11 hours ago, flickers said:

Praise the Dog!

Yes this season has been god awful, I'm waiting for the season to end.