Family Ties: The Good, The Bad And The Ugly

[Ancaster]

1 hour ago, Browncoat said:

Nope.  My mother made one meal, and that's what we ate.  Although, I will say when she made spaghetti, I only ate the noodles.  But no special food was made.

I remember in our family each kid had one thing they didn't like, in which case they picked it out, otherwise we ate what was given us on the plate handed to us (mushrooms in one case, fried eggs another).  My parents were born in the 1930s to already frugal parents, which probably had a lot to do with how meals went*.

* Anyone else out there with Yorkshire-folk for ancestors?  😄

Edited January 26 by Ancaster

[Bastet]

My mom didn't make different meals, I ate what she cooked or, once old enough, made myself something else.  But she didn't force me to eat things I hated, I'd just eat the other stuff.  And if she made a main dish I hated, she made one of my favorite sides with it and vice versa.  That was easy for her to do, though, because there wasn't a ton of stuff I hated or even disliked -- if in any given month's worth of meals there are only a few times where the kid skips part of it and isn't eating the world's most balanced meal by skipping that part, it's no big deal.

[Browncoat]

13 minutes ago, Ancaster said:

I remember in our family each kid had one thing they didn't like, in which case they picked it out, otherwise we ate what was given us on the plate handed to us (mushrooms in one case, fried eggs another).  My parents were born in the 1930s to already frugal parents, which probably had a lot to do with how meals went*.

* Anyone else out there with Yorkshire-folk for ancestors?  😄

Frugal Scots-Irish ancestors, and my parents grew up during the Depression.  They also ate whatever was on their plates.

If any of us had had food allergies or other medical issues, it would have been different, of course, but still, Mom would have cooked one meal for everyone.  When one of my siblings became vegetarian, she adjusted her recipes (which were all in her head, nothing written down) to eliminate meat products, but still made essentially the same food.  For example, instead of cooking eggs in the leftover bacon grease, she'd use butter or vegetable oil and a different pan. 

 

[Dimity]

I think growing up in a big family discourages being too fussy.  If anything we ate fast so we'd be the one who got the last pork chop.  This is not a child rearing technique that I would recommend however!

I always used to see shows or read a book where some poor kid was expected to sit at the table until they finished their meal even if it took all night.  I remember one book where the offensive meal was saved and served up every day until the poor kid finally choked it down.

Anyone who actually had a parent who did this to them you have my sincerest sympathy.

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, Dimity said:

I think growing up in a big family discourages being too fussy.  If anything we ate fast so we'd be the one who got the last pork chop.  This is not a child rearing technique that I would recommend however!

I always used to see shows or read a book where some poor kid was expected to sit at the table until they finished their meal even if it took all night.  I remember one book where the offensive meal was saved and served up every day until the poor kid finally choked it down.

Anyone who actually had a parent who did this to them you have my sincerest sympathy.

Current philosophy is that forcing kids to complete a meal "even if it takes all night" will encourage disordered eating so it's not something we do.  My son has trouble expressing how he feels about things and is always eager to please.  I'm a bit worried about that (that it could lead to him getting into trouble/hanging out with the "wrong" crowd).

@SoMuchTV Cousin-nephew is easy, but when it comes to me being the cousin-aunt, my title will depend on the side of the family to the parent.  I'm one type of cousin-aunt to the cousin-nephew I saw yesterday, but another type to one of my female cousin's daughters.  And me being YOUNGER to said female cousin means I'm something different ANOTHER female cousin's kids because THIS cousin is younger than me.  It's TOTALLY COMPLICATED.

[Gramto6]

5 hours ago, Dimity said:

I always used to see shows or read a book where some poor kid was expected to sit at the table until they finished their meal even if it took all night.  I remember one book where the offensive meal was saved and served up every day until the poor kid finally choked it down.

Anyone who actually had a parent who did this to them you have my sincerest sympathy.

I had a mother like that.  We had to eat everything or sit there until the plate was emptied. I pretty much ate everything, but as a kid, I could not stand liver and it was a staple in our meal schedule. I guess it was a cheap meat source.  My little brother and I finally came up with a plan that was pretty gross but perfect for us! We would wait until we were left alone in the kitchen and then toss the offensive food under the refrigerator! To this day I wonder if the refrigerator was ever replaced and what the floor was like under it!  

 

[shapeshifter]

 

[PRgal]

15 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

 

This was one of my favourite books growing up.  I’ve read it to my son and asked him if he thought Frances was silly.  He said yes and said he ate lots of different things (yep, just not that much protein.  Still hesitant to give him kid protein drinks since they’re usually loaded with sugar). 

[Mountainair]

9 hours ago, Gramto6 said:

I had a mother like that.  We had to eat everything or sit there until the plate was emptied. I pretty much ate everything, but as a kid, I could not stand liver and it was a staple in our meal schedule. I guess it was a cheap meat source.  My little brother and I finally came up with a plan that was pretty gross but perfect for us! We would wait until we were left alone in the kitchen and then toss the offensive food under the refrigerator! To this day I wonder if the refrigerator was ever replaced and what the floor was like under it!  

 

My grandmother is that way. She’s a terrible cook and while I am 40 now I have terrible memories of sitting at her table and being forced to eat slop. If my parents were there they would not make me but I often spent summers at her house without my parents. I eventually started feeding it to her dogs when she wasn’t looking. Her rule for adults was if there were leftovers they go in the dog bowl not the trash. 
A few years ago I visited her with my parents and my kids- my youngest was 3 at the time and we walk in her house and my 3 year old immediately says, “what’s that smell” and proceeded to throw up all over my dad who was holding her. Grandma was making a breakfast casserole and it smelled rancid. My mom went through her trash and found the sausage package she was using and it had expired three years prior. 
My grandma will be 90 in March but she is no longer allowed to cook when family visits and we all gather at a different family members house instead of hers. 

[Absolom]

Wow, three years expired sausage!  I thought my mother was bad when her mind began going, but we never approached that.  Mom had a habit of wanting to buy a jar of peanut butter every trip she made to the store with her caregiver.  They did use the oldest one first so when cleaning out her house, the food pantry got half a shelf of peanut butter.

[EtheltoTillie]

22 hours ago, PRgal said:

It doesn’t work that way anymore for a lot of families, eating that one meal.  And that’s why moms (since it’s mostly mom who cooks) are so stressed out.  
 

We had our extended family reunion with my side last night.  By “extended,” I mean my uncle and aunt (dad’s younger brother) and cousins.  One cousin and his wife have an 18 month old.  He’s sooo adorable!  Brings back memories for us!!  In Cantonese, the little boy would be called a cousin-nephew due to the generational difference.  Chinese family titles are super complicated!  

PRgal, I recommend you watch the new movie DiDi, about Taiwanese immigrants (to US).  I think it will resonate with you a great deal.  I just watched it this morning.  In the US, it's streaming on Peacock.  It was a Sundance selection.  The director's last movie, a short documentary, was Oscar nominated.   Anyway, unlike many indie coming-of-age movies, it does not feel cliched. 

Edited January 27 by EtheltoTillie

[PRgal]

6 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

PRgal, I recommend you watch the new movie DiDi, about Taiwanese immigrants (to US).  I think it will resonate with you a great deal.  I just watched it this morning.  In the US, it's streaming on Peacock.  It was a Sundance selection.  The director's last movie, a short documentary, was Oscar nominated.   Anyway, unlike many indie coming-of-age movies, it does not feel cliched. 

We don't get Peacock in Canada, but it's available on Prime (I checked).  I'll check it out once I finish Wicked.

[Mountainair]

3 hours ago, Absolom said:

Wow, three years expired sausage!  I thought my mother was bad when her mind began going, but we never approached that.  Mom had a habit of wanting to buy a jar of peanut butter every trip she made to the store with her caregiver.  They did use the oldest one first so when cleaning out her house, the food pantry got half a shelf of peanut butter.

She had six kids and lives by herself and just never got out of the habit of buying food for a huge family. She has two fridges and two freezers the she keeps stocked with reduced priced foods but it’s only her living at home. 

[EtheltoTillie]

21 hours ago, Ancaster said:

I remember in our family each kid had one thing they didn't like, in which case they picked it out, otherwise we ate what was given us on the plate handed to us (mushrooms in one case, fried eggs another).  My parents were born in the 1930s to already frugal parents, which probably had a lot to do with how meals went*.

* Anyone else out there with Yorkshire-folk for ancestors?  😄

Nah, but we have US Depression-era parents.  But nothing's logical.  My mother hated lamb for some reason, but she would always make broiled baby lamb chops that were completely dried out and well done.  But she didn't eat them!   She made something else for herself, and for the life of me I cannot remember what it was.  I think I was so focused on getting through my portion.  My father claimed to like them, and I would chew them and chew them over and over until I had an inedible wad.  Finally she stopped making them at all. 

Later in life I learned that people served baby lamb chops rare . . . 

Edited January 27 by EtheltoTillie

[shapeshifter]

34 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Later in life I learned that people served baby lamb chops rare . . . 

Edited January 27 by shapeshifter

[Ohiopirate02]

48 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Nah, but we have US Depression-era parents.  But nothing's logical.  My mother hated lamb for some reason, but she would always make broiled baby lamb chops that were completely dried out and well done.  But she didn't eat them!   She made something else for herself, and for the life of me I cannot remember what it was.  I think I was so focused on getting through my portion.  My father claimed to like them, and I would chew them and chew them over and over until I had an inedible wad.  Finally she stopped making them at all. 

Later in life I learned that people served baby lamb chops rare . . . 

I am laughing over on my end remembering my dad talk about my great grandmother's chuck roasts. Apparently they resembled hockey pucks. By the time I came along, we only visited her and stayed with my other great-grandmother who knew how to cook. My mom tells the story about the first time she took my dad to Pennsylvania to meet her grandmothers. The one who could cook asked my dad if he wanted any pierogi, he said yes, and she went into the kitchen to make him some. My mom looked at my dad and told him that was never going to happen at home. Though grandma had the pierogi in the freezer already made, and mom sure does love to keep a couple dozen of them in the freezer today.

[EtheltoTillie]

29 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Apologies to Shapeshifter's grand-Lambchops

[shapeshifter]

My family has a lot of 1st cousins who have never met because of parents’ estrangement and/or due to moving long distances from each other. I only saw my paternal grandparents a few times because of a feud between my mom and her mother-in-law. 
But one of my clear childhood memories is sitting at my Grandmother’s table and being served boiled chicken with the skin on it and asking my mother if I had to eat the skin. There was silence. The memory stops there.
There had been a lot of hard times when my grandmother did not have enough food to feed her kids.

[Mountainair]

I have 11 cousins. I’m the second oldest at 40 and my youngest cousin is a senior in high school. My kids have all grown up with my cousins thinking they are their first cousins as well. When I got married I had three of my cousins serve as flower girl, ring bearer and jr. bridesmaid and all of them had my kids in their own weddings. 
Not to say there isn’t family drama but mostly us cousins have stuck around for each other. 

[shapeshifter]

When my first cousins have met as adults, it's always been pleasant, with an unspoken wish that we could have been closer but are now geographically not, so…. 

My youngest daughter (the one with the kids — my "lambchops"🐑🐑) is very well-integrated with her husband's many cousins and their spouses etc. 
My 2 little grandkids have 11 first cousins they see regularly.
Most of them are step-1st cousins, or is it not necessary to make that distinction? Her husband grew up with his step-siblings.

[PRgal]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

My family has a lot of 1st cousins who have never met because of parents’ estrangement and/or due to moving long distances from each other. I only saw my paternal grandparents a few times because of a feud between my mom and her mother-in-law. 
But one of my clear childhood memories is sitting at my Grandmother’s table and being served boiled chicken with the skin on it and asking my mother if I had to eat the skin. There was silence. The memory stops there.
There had been a lot of hard times when my grandmother did not have enough food to feed her kids.

I think there's some estrangement between my mom and one of her aunts' family.  This is the only great aunt (or as my mom would say, grand aunt) I saw frequently growing up since she accompanied her younger son and his family's immigration (this cousin uncle had two kids, a boy and a girl, both older than me.  I remember wanting a GameBoy because the boy cousin had one.  But nope, my mom said it would ruin my eyes) in the early 90s.  But after my grandmother passed, I basically did not see them at all.   I think the boy cousin's kids are in middle or high school now.  And the girl cousin has kids in university.  But I may have lost track.  This great aunt was the last of four kids from the main wife, I believe.  My grandmother had four other younger siblings that survived into adulthood.  Different mother though.

[Dimity]

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, Dimity said:

[AgathaC]

On the food topic: My mother and both grandmothers are/were amazing cooks, so I was fortunate enough to never be expected to choke down something barely edible. And I would eat pretty much anything. Bring one of five kids does cut down on pickiness. Even if dinner was something you didn’t much care for, you knew someone else loved it and just dealt with it. You’d probably have one of your faves soon. It helped that my tastes matched my parents’ so we never had things I hated (Lima beans, anything with raisins).

Moving on, forgive me for venting. I’ve complained about my Stepson (14) before. We’re about to have him for nearly two weeks while his mom goes on a trip and I’m already dreading it.

Teens are usually unpleasant part of the time, but usually there are moments of charm or humor or pleasantness to keep you endeared to them. This kid is a blank slate when he’s not throwing attitude around.

One thing that drives me nuts is his absolute refusal to obey rules or to do what’s asked. Mr Agatha doesn’t put many rules in place, but he does expect him to put clean clothes away. For a while, SS would bring his laundry basket down and it was obvious he had never put the clean things up. He just dumped dirty clothes on top, then brought them for washing. Waste of time and water. So, Mr Agatha started telling him to put them up. He proceeds to just dump them on the floor or stuff in a wad in his closet, then lies about having put them away. I don’t care about the clothes. Let him wear dirty, wrinkled clothes and figure it out. But the lying is an issue.

The other problem: food and drink. We don’t let him have stuff in his room because there were multiple incidents of him leaving wrappers or half-eaten chocolate around or spilling a drink and leaving it to dry into a sticky mess. Instead, he sneaks stuff upstairs and hides it. Every time we catch him at it, he gets a consequence. It’s not like he doesn’t get plenty to eat or access to food. He just has to consume it downstairs.

On weeks at our house, he still goes to the gym after school with his mom. Mr A started saying no gym if we find food/drinks up there. That finally seemed to work. Well, we went a few months either way no incidents. Mr A and I take a walk every day. We used to make him go with us, but decided there had been no problems and he’s a teen, let’s let him stay home with the dogs. Great.

Then we started noticing things missing from the pantry. Yep. He was taking candy, cookies, etc., up and hiding them in his room. 14 and we can’t trust him to be home alone.

 I just don’t get it. This kid has absolutely no remorse. No guilt. He gets in trouble, he doesn’t care. Why should he? Every other week he goes to his mom’s, where there are no rules or consequences and he’s spoiled rotten. He has never apologized for anything in the 9 years I’ve known him. He acts like rules don’t apply and when he gets called out on something, it’s someone else’s fault. There’s enough stress in the world right now and dealing with it at home doesn’t help. The only bright spot is Mr A and I are on the same page.

[shapeshifter]

4 minutes ago, AgathaC said:

…Stepson (14)…about to have him for nearly two weeks…dreading it.…refusal to obey rules or to do what’s asked. Mr Agatha doesn’t put many rules in place, but he does expect him to put clean clothes away.…just dumped dirty clothes on top, then brought them for washing…the lying is an issue.

This would drive me crazy, but my middle name should be Laundry. My 3 kids had to start doing their own laundry at age 10. They were all grateful that they knew how to do laundry when they got to college. But at least one is terrible at doing laundry as an adult, LOL, so I'm not sure that helped in the long run.

Anyway, for you, @AgathaC, it's:

4 minutes ago, AgathaC said:

…the lying is an issue.

Yeah. That is disturbing. I don't have answers, but there probably are some good parenting podcasts about dealing with lying.

 

4 minutes ago, AgathaC said:

The other problem: food and drink. We don’t let him have stuff in his room because there were multiple incidents of him leaving wrappers or half-eaten chocolate around or spilling a drink and leaving it to dry into a sticky mess. Instead, he sneaks stuff upstairs and hides it. …14 and we can’t trust him to be home alone.…absolutely no remorse. No guilt. He gets in trouble, he doesn’t care.…it’s someone else’s fault.…

The part I bolded makes me sad because it is like someone whose name has been in the news for those things. Can he be redirected at 14? I hope so. 

So. Consequences. 
Maybe: Take a picture of the room when it's 100% extra-tidy when he arrives.
Then tell him if it doesn't look like that when he leaves (include closeups of the floor to show zero debris, and point that out) then he will have to do chores to earn money to pay for cleaning. Show him ads for cleaning services and how much they cost. 
But I don't really have a good idea for you to carry through with something like this. 

 

[AgathaC]

16 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

This would drive me crazy, but my middle name should be Laundry. My 3 kids had to start doing their own laundry at age 10. They were all grateful that they knew how to do laundry when they got to college. But at least one is terrible at doing laundry as an adult, LOL, so I'm not sure that helped in the long run.

Anyway, for you, @AgathaC, it's:

Yeah. That is disturbing. I don't have answers, but there probably are some good parenting podcasts about dealing with lying.

 

The part I bolded makes me sad because it is like someone whose name has been in the news for those things. Can he be redirected at 14? I hope so. 

So. Consequences. 
Maybe: Take a picture of the room when it's 100% extra-tidy when he arrives.
Then tell him if it doesn't look like that when he leaves (include closeups of the floor to show zero debris, and point that out) then he will have to do chores to earn money to pay for cleaning. Show him ads for cleaning services and how much they cost. 
But I don't really have a good idea for you to carry through with something like this. 

 

Thanks, @shapeshifter! So far, we haven’t found a single consequence that works. Even if it does at first, very soon he shrugs it off and keeps on doing what he’s doing. His mom’s ideas of problem behavior and appropriate consequences are vastly different from ours, so as soon as he’s back at her house, it’s all fine. Even financial penalties — she just pays it for him. He genuinely doesn’t care.

My parents were far from strict, but the mere thought I might have disappointed them cut deep. Hard for me to relate to a kid who seems to have zero sense of remorse.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, AgathaC said:

His mom’s ideas of problem behavior and appropriate consequences are vastly different from ours, so as soon as he’s back at her house, it’s all fine.

Are there some behavioral hills his Mom is “ready to die on,” but they aren’t any of those you’ve described here? 
Like, maybe she’s okay with his being an inconsiderate, surly slob as long as he’s not doing drugs or being violent?
IDK. That seems like a low bar to me, but it’s something.🤷
How are his grades?

Is he willing to participate in a family board game? 

[AgathaC]

9 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Are there some behavioral hills his Mom is “ready to die on,” but they aren’t any of those you’ve described here? 
Like, maybe she’s okay with his being an inconsiderate, surly slob as long as he’s not doing drugs or being violent?
IDK. That seems like a low bar to me, but it’s something.🤷
How are his grades?

Is he willing to participate in a family board game? 

Not really. She doesn’t think sneaking and lying are a big deal. We have a “no electronics after bedtime” rule. Last year, we discovered he’d brought his Switch over and was hiding it. Mr A confronted him. SS Lied multiple times to his face before finally handing it over. Mr A confiscated electronics for the rest of the week. SS’s mom said Mr A was treating SS like he’s in “a concentration camp” and she would have taken things away for an hour.

He’s been suspended twice this year for fighting. He didn’t start either, but he escalated. Since he didn’t start it, she sees no problem and thinks the school is unreasonable.

It’s like that.

As long as he’s not flunking, she doesn’t care about grades. (Odd, since she and her family are all highly educated.) He regularly falls behind unless Mr A stays on top of him. That was solved a bit by Mom and her parents paying him for grades (we’re talking 100s of dollars every 9 weeks). But that’s starting to wear off.

She did say she thinks he’s in classes below his level (I agree) and she wants him in advanced classes next year “when it counts”. Problem is, she and Mr A let him drop down from advanced classes two years ago when he didn’t want to do the work. If they try to bump him back up, he’ll be behind and overwhelmed — which I said two years ago.

Anyway, yes, he’s always willing to participate. We regularly do things. But he’s not particularly engaged or engaging. Acts more like he’s biding his time until he can do what he wants. (About what I’d expect from a teen.)

[PRgal]

Food wrappers in the bedroom?  That could attract pests!  Ew!  Ask him if he wants to sleep with bugs and insects.

[AgathaC]

9 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Food wrappers in the bedroom?  That could attract pests!  Ew!  Ask him if he wants to sleep with bugs and insects.

We tried that. He just rolled his eyes. He also continuously pulls off the sheets and mattress pad to sleep on the bare mattress. Mr A googled pictures of dust mites and dead skin cells, etc., to show him, but it had no impact. Filth and squalor are fine by him. Mr A is a neat freak and germaphobe, so it’s a constant battle.

[Dimity]

1 minute ago, AgathaC said:

He also continuously pulls off the sheets and mattress pad to sleep on the bare mattress.

Have you asked his mother if he does this at her house as well?  I know it sounds bad but is this a fight worth fighting?  I'd be tempted to put a bare mattress on the floor, and also take away the dresser since he objects to putting his clean clothes away.  BTW I'd be advising him that there is no laundry being done for him - he can either bring enough clothes to last two weeks or keep rewearing what he brings.  If he doesn't care, why should you?

[AgathaC]

4 minutes ago, Dimity said:

Have you asked his mother if he does this at her house as well?  I know it sounds bad but is this a fight worth fighting?  I'd be tempted to put a bare mattress on the floor, and also take away the dresser since he objects to putting his clean clothes away.  BTW I'd be advising him that there is no laundry being done for him - he can either bring enough clothes to last two weeks or keep rewearing what he brings.  If he doesn't care, why should you?

Nope, not worth fighting. I advised Mr A to drop the mattress thing and he has. Just let him do what he does with that. We can throw it away when he graduates.

I suggested the laundry thing and at this point, Mr A is considering it. I won’t give up the good thing because I refuse to deal with pests, but if he ends up having to wear dirty, wrinkled clothes to school, why should I care?

[shapeshifter]

6 minutes ago, AgathaC said:

We tried that. He just rolled his eyes. He also continuously pulls off the sheets and mattress pad to sleep on the bare mattress. Mr A googled pictures of dust mites and dead skin cells, etc., to show him, but it had no impact. Filth and squalor are fine by him. Mr A is a neat freak and germaphobe, so it’s a constant battle.

Pulling off the sheets "to sleep on the bare mattress" seems a bit weird, but my ex-late-MIL said my ex-late-FIL pulled the bottom sheet off the mattress every night, so maybe your SS figures it's "easier" to just take the whole thing off instead of remaking the bed. My ex would occasionally do loud sleep yelling and jump up and down on the bed — which contributed to our divorce.

It might be helpful for you to talk to a family therapist that specializes in working with teens, just to get an opinion on those types of behaviors and how best to deal with them. Of course, ideally you, SS, and both his parents would go together, but that probably almost never happens. So, if nobody else wants to go, you can just go by yourself. You can look up reviews online after you get a list of therapists from your health insurance company. 

[PRgal]

It’s rebellion.  I wonder if he feels like his mom is abandoning him by going away.  It all depends on how he behaves at his mom’s.  He’s probably upset his parents split in the first place. 

[AgathaC]

2 hours ago, PRgal said:

It’s rebellion.  I wonder if he feels like his mom is abandoning him by going away.  It all depends on how he behaves at his mom’s.  He’s probably upset his parents split in the first place. 

I doubt the trip makes a difference. The behavior and attitude far predate it. It’s been this way for years.

But, yeah, there could be divorce resentment. He was 2 when they split, so it’s not like he remembers life together, but that doesn’t always matter.

[isalicat]

I don't really know, AgathaC, but this stepson sounds deeply troubled to me...he is putting on an affect of not caring about anything and may be actively disassociating internally as well...very mentally unhealthy. Does he have good friends either at school or elsewhere? If he has no relationships outside his mom and you and his father, then I would run, not walk, towards a psychological evaluation and some professional assistance. Would his mother object if you and your husband took the lead on this?

[Ancaster]

On 2/3/2025 at 8:50 AM, AgathaC said:

 

Moving on, forgive me for venting. I’ve complained about my Stepson (14) before. We’re about to have him for nearly two weeks while his mom goes on a trip and I’m already dreading it.

 This kid is a blank slate when he’s not throwing attitude around.

One thing that drives me nuts is his absolute refusal to obey rules or to do what’s asked. Mr Agatha doesn’t put many rules in place, but he does expect him to put clean clothes away. For a while, SS would bring his laundry basket down and it was obvious he had never put the clean things up. He just dumped dirty clothes on top, then brought them for washing. Waste of time and water. So, Mr Agatha started telling him to put them up. He proceeds to just dump them on the floor or stuff in a wad in his closet, then lies about having put them away. I don’t care about the clothes. Let him wear dirty, wrinkled clothes and figure it out. But the lying is an issue.

The other problem: food and drink. We don’t let him have stuff in his room because there were multiple incidents of him leaving wrappers or half-eaten chocolate around or spilling a drink and leaving it to dry into a sticky mess. Instead, he sneaks stuff upstairs and hides it. Every time we catch him at it, he gets a consequence. It’s not like he doesn’t get plenty to eat or access to food. He just has to consume it downstairs.

On weeks at our house, he still goes to the gym after school with his mom. Mr A started saying no gym if we find food/drinks up there. That finally seemed to work. Well, we went a few months either way no incidents. Mr A and I take a walk every day. We used to make him go with us, but decided there had been no problems and he’s a teen, let’s let him stay home with the dogs. Great.

Then we started noticing things missing from the pantry. Yep. He was taking candy, cookies, etc., up and hiding them in his room. 14 and we can’t trust him to be home alone.

 I just don’t get it. This kid has absolutely no remorse. No guilt. He gets in trouble, he doesn’t care. Why should he? Every other week he goes to his mom’s, where there are no rules or consequences and he’s spoiled rotten. He has never apologized for anything in the 9 years I’ve known him. He acts like rules don’t apply and when he gets called out on something, it’s someone else’s fault. There’s enough stress in the world right now and dealing with it at home doesn’t help. The only bright spot is Mr A and I are on the same page.

Your stepson's behaviour is very disturbing.  You say your husband is on the same page, but he doesn't seem to be addressing the problem.  I'd (seriously) go stay at a local friend's place/motel/hotel the upcoming two weeks and book a cleaning service before you come home.  And then insist on professional intervention for your stepson before he stays in your home again.  (Don't engage directly with his ex-wife; that never works.)  

[AgathaC]

12 hours ago, isalicat said:

I don't really know, AgathaC, but this stepson sounds deeply troubled to me...he is putting on an affect of not caring about anything and may be actively disassociating internally as well...very mentally unhealthy. Does he have good friends either at school or elsewhere? If he has no relationships outside his mom and you and his father, then I would run, not walk, towards a psychological evaluation and some professional assistance. Would his mother object if you and your husband took the lead on this?

I think it would depend on when she was asked. She’s been on board before. It ended up not happening because he went and refused to say a word and they didn’t want to keep wasting time and money. Personally, I think they should try again. Maybe tell him if he doesn’t speak or cooperate, the cost of the session comes out of his bank account. (Knowing his mom, she or her parents would just repay him.)

He does have friends — doesn’t see them in person, but spends a lot of time talking, texting and gaming. Apparently, that’s the way these kids do it now.

10 hours ago, Ancaster said:

Your stepson's behaviour is very disturbing.  You say your husband is on the same page, but he doesn't seem to be addressing the problem.  I'd (seriously) go stay at a local friend's place/motel/hotel the upcoming two weeks and book a cleaning service before you come home.  And then insist on professional intervention for your stepson before he stays in your home again.  (Don't engage directly with his ex-wife; that never works.)  

Oh, I never hardly ever engage — never more than a “hi” at a baseball game. She and Mr A actually get along fine but they definitely disagree on appropriate behavior and consequences. Even when she agrees there’s a problem, she doesn’t want to deal with it.

So, the latest gems:

1) He lied about having his report card. Had a D in English last 9 weeks. Admitted to Mr A he’s slacking off and not doing some work because he’d rather do other stuff.

2) Got in school suspension for “horseplay.” A kid tripped and knocked against him, so SS shoved him hard enough to knock him down. Mr A: “You think an appropriate response to an accident is to shove the person?” SS: “I thought it might be on purpose.” Mr A: “Well, do you think it might be a good idea to find out before you react physically?” SS: “No. that’s lame.”

Lovely.

He’s not a “problem” around here, per se. He disobeys rules and has attitude, but he’s not violent or lashing out — I would never put up with that. But I keep feeling like there are real problems. Mr A agrees that he could be on a bad path, but doesn’t really know what to do. Any consequences roll right off him or are undone by his mom and her parents. He does them anyway, but it’s like banging your head against a wall.

[PRgal]

@AgathaC It sounds like there's more going on.  Do you know if his mom has a new boyfriend?  Maybe she's not around much and he's upset about it.  I would get your husband to talk to him more seriously.  Be firm about it.  It's like how we FINALLY figured out what was going on with OUR six year old, who has been faking being sick on and off for the last few months.  Actually, we're STILL not sure if he was faking-faking or if it was stress.  It turns out that there's been rough play at school, especially with a specific kid (his BFF!!!).  We believe it's because they're the two of the smallest boys in class and they're, well, trying to "prove" their masculinity to the other guys.  If he wants to "hit" people, he might as well do it safely, so we're looking into martial arts programs for him in the spring.  

[AgathaC]

3 minutes ago, PRgal said:

@AgathaC It sounds like there's more going on.  Do you know if his mom has a new boyfriend?  Maybe she's not around much and he's upset about it.  I would get your husband to talk to him more seriously.  Be firm about it.  It's like how we FINALLY figured out what was going on with OUR six year old, who has been faking being sick on and off for the last few months.  Actually, we're STILL not sure if he was faking-faking or if it was stress.  It turns out that there's been rough play at school, especially with a specific kid (his BFF!!!).  We believe it's because they're the two of the smallest boys in class and they're, well, trying to "prove" their masculinity to the other guys.  If he wants to "hit" people, he might as well do it safely, so we're looking into martial arts programs for him in the spring.  

Good luck with your little guy! I hear martial arts can do great things for confidence and learning the right way to behave.

Mr A has tried talking to him for years. Rarely if ever gets anywhere. He gets blank stares or “no, everything’s fine” in a “ok, weirdo, why are you asking?” tone.

Doubt the mom has a boyfriend. Possible, but I don’t think she’s interested. And I’m sure she’s around. Either she or her parents are constantly doing things with him or taking him to buy things. She also told Mr A she doesn’t trust him alone in the house, either. So, he goes with her when she leaves. He’s not responsible enough.

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, AgathaC said:

I think it would depend on when she was asked. She’s been on board before. It ended up not happening because he went and refused to say a word and they didn’t want to keep wasting time and money. Personally, I think they should try again. Maybe tell him if he doesn’t speak or cooperate, the cost of the session comes out of his bank account. (Knowing his mom, she or her parents would just repay him.)

Then go for it! Seems like it's worth a try. 
I have regrets about things I didn't do when my kids were young, but I am glad I at least tried therapy, even if it wasn't adequate. 
BTW, a lot of therapy is much better these days. More evidence-based.

 

5 hours ago, AgathaC said:

I hear martial arts can do great things for confidence and learning the right way to behave.

Yes. This is another excellent "worth a try" strategy for your SS too.

[AgathaC]

We got an unexpected reprieve. SS’s mom had to cancel her trip, so we’ll keep with the regular week on/week off. No almost two weeks of SS here. It also means Mr A and I can do the long weekend getaway we desperately need but couldn’t plan due to the schedule changes. Woo-hoo.

Good timing, too. He’s nearly flunking a couple of classes. Mr A met with teachers during conferences Monday. It’s all laziness, basically, which SS freely admits.

So, last week we had another example of awesome parenting.

SS likes to go with his mom to the gym. He’s an athletic kid and there are a lot of machines, racket ball, etc. There are also snack counters and he’s a big lover of soft drinks and snacks. Anyway, on our weeks, he just rides the school bus to her house and she drops him off. Mr A is cool with it as long as he’s home in time to clean up for dinner. (He’s also taken away gym visits as a consequence for rule-breaking, so it’s a useful tool.)

Sometimes, Ex can’t go, but she tells Mr A at the start of the week. Sometimes that changes and she keeps Mr A informed. No problem.

Last week, she couldn’t go Thursday. SS knew this. Early Thursday afternoon, SS texted Mr A asking if he could go to the gym with his mom. Mr A, assuming her plans had changed, said yes. That afternoon, he got a text from Ex that SS had just shown up. He had not asked her about the gym.

Knowing this kid and how he operates, we knew exactly what happened. He wanted to go to the gym. So, to cover his bases, he asked his dad (he never texts him to ask about the gym). He did not ask his mom, fearing the answer would be no and thinking if he turned up, she’d take him.

What happened? She texted Mr A and said she was going to go ahead and take him before her meeting.

Lovely lesson there. SS does something stupid and dangerous (what if she hadn’t been home? What if his phone died?). He manipulates a situation to get what he wants. And her response is… give him what he wants.

Personally, I thought Mr A should have told her, “no. Bring his ass here. Now.” But he doesn’t like to push back at her too much. He chewed SS out when he got home (she didn’t chastise him at all). But the lesson was still learned. You can always get what you want and will be rewarded for stupid, thoughtless manipulative behavior.

I swear.

Edited February 12 by AgathaC

[isalicat]

6 hours ago, AgathaC said:

But he doesn’t like to push back at her too much.

And thus you have it: Both SS's parents are enabling him and they will reap what they have sown, sooner than later. I sincerely wish everyone involved well but I especially hope you, AgathaC, are not caught in whatever the eventual fall out is of this parenting disaster.

[shapeshifter]

5 minutes ago, isalicat said:

And thus you have it: Both SS's parents are enabling him and they will reap what they have sown, sooner than later. I sincerely wish everyone involved well but I especially hope you, AgathaC, are not caught in whatever the eventual fall out is of this parenting disaster.

But, @AgathaC, I sense you are already suffering from feelings of hopelessness because as a stepparent, you can't really act to prevent the trainwreck you see coming in your mind's eye. 
Is that right? 

[Absolom]

9 hours ago, AgathaC said:

But the lesson was still learned. You can always get what you want and will be rewarded for stupid, thoughtless manipulative behavior.

 And eventually who pays the price?  SS when he's a malfunctioning adult or can't get into the college of his choice or any college except a community college.  No aspersion to community colleges themselves, but the kid is being allowed to put himself in a position of no choice.

Edited February 13 by Absolom

[PRgal]

17 minutes ago, Absolom said:

 And eventually who pays the price?  SS when he's a malfunctioning adult or can't get into the college of his choice or any college except a community college.  No aspersion to community colleges themselves, but the kid being allowed to put himself in a position of no choice.

Would he consider going to trade school?  Does he like using his hands?

[AgathaC]

4 hours ago, Absolom said:

 And eventually who pays the price?  SS when he's a malfunctioning adult or can't get into the college of his choice or any college except a community college.  No aspersion to community colleges themselves, but the kid is being allowed to put himself in a position of no choice.

Exactly. And I’ve said that. SS is the one who will suffer for it. He’s lucky that there’s family money. But will it really be enough to protect him the rest of his life?

 

4 hours ago, PRgal said:

Would he consider going to trade school?  Does he like using his hands?

I don’t know. If it doesn’t involve sports or his phone, he has no interest. He loves baseball and he’s good, but not amazing. And his mom lets him skip practices on a regular basis, so even then, not willing to put in effort. 

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

But, @AgathaC, I sense you are already suffering from feelings of hopelessness because as a stepparent, you can't really act to prevent the trainwreck you see coming in your mind's eye. 
Is that right? 

Bingo. It’s been that way for years. And so far, I’ve been dead right about every concern and prediction. But all I can do is give advice when requested.

[Ancaster]

On 2/5/2025 at 6:48 AM, AgathaC said:

 

He does have friends — doesn’t see them in person, but spends a lot of time talking, texting and gaming. Apparently, that’s the way these kids do it now.

 

Well adjusted children (and adults) have real, tangible friends that they see in person, even if it's only once a year or over some kind of social media that shows an actual person.  And he says he has "friends"?  Isn't that a red flag for you?

[shapeshifter]

6 minutes ago, AgathaC said:

But all I can do is give advice when requested.

Since the "stick" approach doesn't seem to work with regards to changing habitual behavior or his attitude, are there "carrots" you've tried? 
I don't know why I'm thinking of this, but I'm imagining just you and SS going to a comedy club as a treat after you catch him doing some good deed, like maybe putting a dish in the dishwasher. I've never been to a comedy club, and I don't know if folks are cheered up by them, but he sounds clinically depressed.

[EtheltoTillie]

I have resisted weighing in on this situation for a while, but I think this child has very substantial psychiatric issues, depression and possibly personality disorder issues, which are the hardest to treat. I say this with knowledge of families who have had to deal with the same things, so my armchair diagnoses are based on close observations of and lengthy involvement with friends' and relatives' families, and/or clients with disabled children.

I don't know how or if you can navigate this easily with a two-household situation--it's hard enough with one household.  But I don't think these suggestions of behavior modification are of much value here.  More investigation and testing is probably needed.

7 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

. I've never been to a comedy club,

REALLY?  Are you a fan of standup comedy at all?  Even seeing it on TV?  It's much more fun at a live performance, as the audience adds to the enjoyment by providing a kind of groundswell of laughter.  I don't go often, but when I have gone -- either to a small club to see newcomers (and in the distant past I've seen newcomers who went on to big careers) -- or occasionally buying a ticket to see a headliner -- I have always enjoyed it.  The absolute funniest show I ever saw was Gilbert Gottfried at Caroline's.  Nothing else could come close.  Second was a Joan Rivers appearance at a medium-sized theater in NYC.

But I can't say these activities would get someone out of a true depression. 

Edited February 13 by EtheltoTillie