Family Ties: The Good, The Bad And The Ugly

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, ABay said:

Jesus. @Bastet, you're really going through a rough time this month.

Yes, I am definitely in "Stop the world, I want to get off" mode right now.

[PRgal]

Took my son to the art gallery today, totally expecting him to want to go to the kids’ hands-on play space. Nope.  He just wanted to wander around and look at art.  In fact, one piece of work that piqued him the most was a religious work because his name was in it.  He’s not been exposed to the Bible outside of bits of Exodus over Passover, so he totally didn’t get the work’s significance.  But this is a child who had zero interest on anything creative just a year ago.  Now he has a decent-sized collection of crayons, paint, pencil crayons (coloured pencils) and markers. 

Edited August 19, 2023 by PRgal

[Scarlett45]

On 8/17/2023 at 10:44 AM, AgathaC said:

Of course, now I’m married to an only child who barely knows what little family he has and who’s completely overwhelmed by my sprawling family (and my ability to rattle off dozens of names and connections), so that’s been a bit of a learning curve! 😉

Sounds like the experience my Mom had where she met my father. She admitted that she thought he was making it up when he would say all these attractive women they would run into on the southside of chicago were his cousin. Her BFF told her at the time “no, they are actually his cousins! Just because you don’t have much family doesn’t mean that’s true for everyone.”

 

On 8/17/2023 at 2:31 PM, AgathaC said:

I’ve definitely learned! And he’s learned to be a good sport while also getting comfortable excusing himself to recharge. It’s a balance. I’m an introvert and don’t generally like noise and crowds. It’s easier to tolerate when it’s your own family. But I always try to be mindful.

My Mom is very extroverted so it’s not the socialization that she minded, but she’s not used to having to consider so many other people in her plans. And because of my sister’s disability I have a lot of only child tendencies too. When you’re a family of 2 (for decision making purposes) , it’s very easy to have a discussion about everything “what time do you want breakfast” compared to “breakfast is at 8”. 
 

So many of my cousins are so much older than me (think 50s/60s and I’m 37), but I tell them us childfree cousins have to stick together! And being the youngest of that group I do what I can to help out. 

[PRgal]

The term “cousin” confused some people in my family since it’s only used for same generation cousins in Chinese (at least in my family).  Even though technically speaking, the Cantonese (and probably Mandarin) word for “cousin” is “bew.”  However, your once removed cousin, for example, might be “bew yee” (translates to “cousin aunt”) or “bew suk” (“cousin uncle”), depending on the side of the family (I think).  I don’t even know all the terms.  I just address them as Uncle or Aunt.  
 

Note:  your same-generation cousins (ie your aunt or uncle’s kids) are bew jeh, bew mui (both translating to “cousin sister,” older and younger, respectively) or bew goh and bew dai (older and younger, respectively). 

Edited August 19, 2023 by PRgal

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, PRgal said:

The term “cousin” confused some people in my family since it’s only used for same generation cousins in Chinese (at least in my family).  Even though technically speaking, the Cantonese (and probably Mandarin) word for “cousin” is “bew.”  However, your once removed cousin, for example, might be “bew yee” (translates to “cousin aunt”) or “bew suk” (“cousin uncle”), depending on the side of the family (I think).  I don’t even know all the terms.  I just address them as Uncle or Aunt.  
 

Note:  your same-generation cousins (ie your aunt or uncle’s kids) are bew jeh, bew mui (both translating to “cousin sister,” older and younger, respectively) or bew goh and bew dai (older and younger, respectively). 

One thing I do love about the Cantonese language is that it makes studying consanguinity so easy, in English “cousin” means many different degrees of relation and you have to add “maternal/paternal” to know which side of the family you are talking about, and there isn’t a different word for the wife of your father’s brother compared to your father’s sister (both are paternal aunt in English!)

[Laura Holt]

I've always been confused by "first cousin once removed" and second cousin and so on.  Once my daughter got really interested in genealogy she sat me down and explained the differences.  Very interesting subject! 

[PRgal]

27 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

One thing I do love about the Cantonese language is that it makes studying consanguinity so easy, in English “cousin” means many different degrees of relation and you have to add “maternal/paternal” to know which side of the family you are talking about, and there isn’t a different word for the wife of your father’s brother compared to your father’s sister (both are paternal aunt in English!)

Except it gets confusing because you’re one thing to one person and another thing to another.  My paternal aunt’s (dad’s sister) daughters call my paternal uncle (dad’s brother) “Fu” but I call him “Suk.”  Sometimes, my dad would refer to him as “Suk” when he’s talking to me.  However, I call my mom’s brother “Kau” since the full term for one’s mom’s brother is kau fu.  Fu usually means father (well, it’s fu chan.  Father’s Day translates to Fu Chan Jeet.  Mother’s Day is Mo Chan Jeet). 

[Laura Holt]

Remember the olden days when the big naming argument for parents was whether to choose John or Michael?  My niece is having a baby in September and both she and her husband have hyphenated last names "Smith-Jones" married "Lebeau-Morin" type thing.  Anyway they don't want to give the child 4 last names but things are getting a bit tense around the old homestead as they try to decide what to decide. 

[theredhead77]

They could just create an entirely new last name. 

[PRgal]

38 minutes ago, Laura Holt said:

Remember the olden days when the big naming argument for parents was whether to choose John or Michael?  My niece is having a baby in September and both she and her husband have hyphenated last names "Smith-Jones" married "Lebeau-Morin" type thing.  Anyway they don't want to give the child 4 last names but things are getting a bit tense around the old homestead as they try to decide what to decide. 

Can always use some as a middle name.  

My son technically has my last name, which is my maiden name and my husband's name without a hyphen.  

I also know of a family with two kids, one child has the mom's last name and the other has dad's.

[BlueSkies]

Nothing right now to complain about family wise.

 

When I saw my cousin a few weeks ago he said see you around Christmas.  I just sort of marvel a bit as a grown up how that will be here before we know it.  Versus being a kid and it’s like it’ll be Christmas when I see him next.  That won’t be for forever 

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, PRgal said:

I also know of a family with two kids, one child has the mom's last name and the other has dad's.

I've seen that too. 

Also, while it's not my heritage, I am used to Latin, Hispanic, and Spanish cultures where, traditionally, there are all kinds of different surnames going on within a family.

[PRgal]

6 hours ago, Bastet said:

I've seen that too. 

Also, while it's not my heritage, I am used to Latin, Hispanic, and Spanish cultures where, traditionally, there are all kinds of different surnames going on within a family.

And while I’m stylizing my name like, say, Laura Ingalls Wilder, in Hong Kong, it would be more like Laura Wilder Ingalls (or rather, if Laura was Hong Kong Chinese, Laura Wilder Ingalls Chinese Name).  

[AgathaC]

I have to vent for a moment, so forgive me. I have a 12.5-year-old stepson, who is with us every other week. I’ve written about him before. No huge problems except he’s incredibly spoiled, entitled and immature thanks to his mom and her parents.

Hubby and I have a mini-dachshund mix, who is the gentlest, cutest, sweetest thing that ever waddled the earth (he’s overweight after being over fed by his previous owner — we’re working on it).

SS loves Dog. Dog only shows interest in SS when there’s food involved. Otherwise, he’s a Velcro mama’s boy. Over the 9 months we’ve had Dog, I’ve had to remind SS not to hug him (dogs hate it) or pick him up (doxie backs are fragile). He’s better at the latter. But he’s escalating the physical contact.

Three nights now, Dog has wanted on the couch because there’s food. SS has proceeded to hold onto Dog. Dog doesn’t struggle much and it’s not a tight hold, but if Dog makes the slightest wiggle or attempt to move, SS’s grip tightens a bit. Also, Dog stares at me nonstop, his way of communicating he wants/needs something from me. I call him out on it, he releases and Dog runs away from him straight to me. Last night I had to say something and he stopped wrapping his arms around him, but I looked over a minute later and saw he had his fingers hooked in Dog’s collar. I told him to knock it off. Dog ran to me and SS sat there turning red, fuming and poking angrily at his phone the rest of the night.

It’s driving me up the wall. He’s 12. He’s not a toddler. I shouldn’t have to tell him this every damned night. I’ve even explained my reasoning (Dog may eventually want to hang with you if you treat him well. It’s important to respect the feelings of people and animals.) but no. Every night now.

Hubby agrees with me but he’s not terribly observant so I tend to be the one who notices.

I get it. He loves Dog and he wants to cuddle. But he’s just doing what he wants without thought for anyone else — not unusual for him.

Ugh!

[nokat]

19 hours ago, AgathaC said:

Otherwise, he’s a Velcro mama’s boy.

Dogs are like this, they have a "person." Your step son may be a little young to understand, but he certainly know enough not to restrain a pet. He wants your little waddle buddy to love him, so is it possible for him to have his own pet? Only when he understands you can't demand love from a pet.

[AgathaC]

28 minutes ago, nokat said:

Dogs are like this, they have a "person." Your step son may be a little young to understand, but he certainly know enough not to restrain a pet. He wants your little waddle buddy to love him, so is it possible for him to have his own pet? Only when he understands you can't demand love from a pet.

Not a bad idea, but we’re at our personal max with two dogs right now. Also, SS has demonstrated that he’s not responsible with much of anything at this point, so Hubby and I would end up caring for any animal. Any sort of rodent is a no-go and Hubby is extremely allergic to cats, which would leave fish or bird — not terribly cuddly.

Anyway, he has two cats and four dogs at his mom’s. For a while there, she added a new animal every six months when he got bored of the most recent one or it ignored him. Thank goodness she hit our city’s legal limit!

[nokat]

31 minutes ago, AgathaC said:

Anyway, he has two cats and four dogs at his mom’s. For a while there, she added a new animal every six months when he got bored of the most recent one or it ignored him.

This worries me.  He may think of animals as possessions.  You know how it's said animals are good judges of character? I don't know what I would do in your situation. 

[AgathaC]

16 minutes ago, nokat said:

This worries me.  He may think of animals as possessions.  You know how it's said animals are good judges of character? I don't know what I would do in your situation. 

Yeah. There are a number of things that worry me. I’ve never seen any sign he’s mean spirited at all. But he seems totally deaf to the wants and needs of others. And as old as 10, he was still throwing things at his mom on the few occasions she upset him.

He’s mostly well-behaved, and we don’t have a lot of rules in our house. Our big one is no food or drink upstairs. He continually breaks that and lies about it. Why? Because he wants to snack in his room, so he just does it.

It’s frustrating. I don’t think he’s a bad kid at heart. But he’s terribly spoiled. His mom and her parents coddle him and give in at every turn. Last year, he went through a phase of faking sick. After one time trying it on our week, we knew what was up. The next time the nurse called Hubby, he told her to send him back to class. At mom’s, though, she or her parents would get him and they didn’t make him keep up with his lessons (they have school laptops). Hubby got on him on our weeks but there was no enforcement there so he fell behind. Nearly flunked until he threw a fit about the classes being too hard, so they all let him drop out of advanced classes. Where, again, he didn’t bother to do his work half the time. Mom’s response: It’s only 6th grade, so it doesn’t count yet. As long as he gets at least a D, no big deal. This is a corporate attorney.

Blows my mind. The kid has no clue about consequences because as much as Hubby tries, Mom and her family just reinforce a consequence-free, “keep SS happy” mindset. He broke his iPad when he lost a game. Mom immediately ordered him the latest model and gave him hers to use until it arrived.

I do my best to just stay out of it. We can just hope our more structured, reasonable attitude rubs off somewhat.

[nokat]

2 minutes ago, AgathaC said:

Blows my mind. The kid has no clue about consequences because as much as Hubby tries, Mom and her family just reinforce a consequence-free, “keep SS happy” mindset.

This can backfire so much, as nobody will want to be around the kid. Or he becomes a manager and sinks a company.

[BlueSkies]

I was thinking of two 2nd cousins I have. Or maybe they are 3rd cousins? Both of their mothers and my dad are cousins.  

 

I got 1st Holy Communion with them a long time ago.  At that age I think we were cordial enough with each other.  But then both of them stopped going to CCD with me.  There was a lapse in seeing either of them.  Until basketball camp when I was in 8th grade one of the cousins was with me.  I knew he was but didnt like introduce myself to him like that.  At that age I thought he changed from a friendly little kid to a wise guy/ smart alick.   I despised having to be on the same teams as him at the camp.  I saw him at church related functions a few times after that he never even looked my way.  I mean good riddance.  I haven't seen him in over 20 years.

 

Another 2nd or 3rd cousin I got the communion with.  He was a cordial enough little kid but as it was we actually went to high school together.  I had not been in touch with him over the years as well.  In high school I saw who he was and he immediately struck me as a wise guy as well.  I never introduced myself to him, he never introduced myself to me.  We never spoke.  I mean I didnt dislike him, it's just I had nothing in common with him.

 

 

I haven't seen both these two cousins in over 20 years but it would feel awkward to the 57896th degree to ever sort of cross their paths again like that 

[PRgal]

Mailed back my Ancestry sample yesterday.  It's a 6-8 week wait, according to the site.  I'm not sure if I'm going to find anything surprising, though it will sort of confirm if I have any "other" roots.  I constantly get asked if I'm Filipina by people of Philippine descent and have also been asked if I'm Vietnamese or Thai.  But then again, my roots are almost exclusively southeastern Chinese, so if there's any mixing, it would have been thousands of years ago.  LOL.  I have (first) cousins (siblings) who did 23andMe and they found they were 100% southern Chinese.  Including the side (that we share) that has an ancestor who "came from the north."  If there ARE any northern roots, I guess my cousins didn't inherit those traits!  

[nokat]

2 hours ago, PRgal said:

Mailed back my Ancestry sample yesterday.  It's a 6-8 week wait, according to the site.  I'm not sure if I'm going to find anything surprising, though it will sort of confirm if I have any "other" roots.  I constantly get asked if I'm Filipina by people of Philippine descent and have also been asked if I'm Vietnamese or Thai.  But then again, my roots are almost exclusively southeastern Chinese, so if there's any mixing, it would have been thousands of years ago.  LOL.  I have (first) cousins (siblings) who did 23andMe and they found they were 100% southern Chinese.  Including the side (that we share) that has an ancestor who "came from the north."  If there ARE any northern roots, I guess my cousins didn't inherit those traits!  

It can be interesting, but also dependent on how many people donate their samples.

[PRgal]

8 hours ago, nokat said:

It can be interesting, but also dependent on how many people donate their samples.

I think it’s a good number.  China is divided into several regions already on the Ancestry site.  And then there are surrounding countries. 

[Browncoat]

11 hours ago, nokat said:

It can be interesting, but also dependent on how many people donate their samples.

Some of my known (through marriage records) ancestry didn't show up in my Ancestry sample because of the lack of data from those groups.

[PRgal]

3 hours ago, Browncoat said:

Some of my known (through marriage records) ancestry didn't show up in my Ancestry sample because of the lack of data from those groups.

It could also be that you didn't pick those traits up in your DNA.  

[Browncoat]

21 minutes ago, PRgal said:

It could also be that you didn't pick those traits up in your DNA.  

It could be, but when I drilled down deeper on their website, they indicated no samples from those groups.

[GATenn]

So I mentioned before that my stepfather died in April. The will was finally settled, and my mother got pretty much everything (and GA law is pretty firm about spousal inheritance). He had three children, and he left two of them and his grandson a gun each.

His daughter sent my mother a shrieking text calling her a thief, a liar, a horrible person, and that she needs to repent.

Never mind that my stepfather made out his will in his right mind, and that his decisions were entirely his. Never mind that his children were never around until he went into the care facility, and then they swooped in like vultures. Never mind that he probably liked me and my sister better than his own kids (he named me co-executor of his will if anything happened to my mother. I'm sure they loved that the gay may have been left in charge).

I have no illusions about my mother. Is she extra as fuck? Yes. Are her decisions sometimes head-scratchers? Definitely. Is she borderline nuts? Absolutely.

What she has never been, isn't, and will never be, is a thief. 

Once my stepfather went into care, his daughter started calling my mother and screaming at her on a regular basis. She called and hung up on numerous occasions. She's an immature, fake southern christian baptist conservative (husband is a deacon, kids went to christian school, etc.).  And I can only imagine the trash she votes for. And I got side-eye from her, her husband, and her brother over the years, which is funny, because their grandma, Mammaw, welcomed me and my then-husband into the family with open arms. Once I ran into her at a drag show. She loved us, but didn't particulary care for her own "late" (meaning stupid) grandkids.

Repent indeed. How dare she? Shrew.

[emma675]

Time to block her phone number and everything else and change the locks, if she has keys. People like that aren't worth putting up with.

ETA, screenshot, record, and save every unhinged thing she sends, just in case you need it for future use (if you need a restraining order, etc).

Edited August 30, 2023 by emma675

[GATenn]

6 minutes ago, emma675 said:

Time to block her phone number and everything else and change the locks, if she has keys. People like that aren't worth putting up with.

ETA, screenshot, record, and save every unhinged thing she sends, just in case you need it for future use (if you need a restraining order, etc).

Mom has done these things, so hopefully there won't be any more BS. 

I doubt I will run into her here in Savannah (probably too many black people for her; SE GA and southern SC is full of white flight refugees who fled for this reason), but I really don't feel like expending the energy to read her for filth. It's just hard not to act when my mother was treated so shitty.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, GATenn said:

So I mentioned before that my stepfather died in April. The will was finally settled, and my mother got pretty much everything (and GA law is pretty firm about spousal inheritance).…

In recent years my Dad and then my Mom died, a close friend’s father and sister died, and 2 cousins’ husbands died. Other relatives passed decades ago when I was an adult too. 
I don’t know if this is your first such experience, @GATenn, but all of those inheritances were fraught to some degree.

Probably the worst was when my brother-in-law’s parents died: My sister and her husband were so mad that they cut off all ties with his sister 30. years. ago. 
My mother held resentments for 40 years over her mother’s wedding ring going to her sister-in-law (via her brother) even though my mom had at least 3 expensive wedding rings made before that (for just one marriage).

So.  
I hope this aftermath passes quickly for you, during which time material possessions or money serve as proxies for the grief and misunderstandings and resentments that so much of modern society is so terrible about processing.

IDK. I guess it’s better than dueling to death.

And I hope you may be able think about the good times, even if there weren’t many.

I find as time goes on, it’s easier to focus on the good memories. 

Edited August 31, 2023 by shapeshifter
a comma

[GATenn]

5 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

In recent years my Dad and then my Mom died, a close friend’s father and sister died, and 2 cousins’ husbands died. Other relatives passed decades ago when I was an adult too. 
I don’t know if this is your first such experience, @GATenn, but all of those inheritances were fraught to some degree.

Probably the worst was when my brother-in-law’s parents died: My sister and her husband were so mad that they cut off all ties with his sister 30. years. ago. 
My mother held resentments for 40 years over her mother’s wedding ring going to her sister-in-law (via her brother) even though my mom had at least 3 expensive wedding rings made before that (for just one marriage).

So.  
I hope this aftermath passes quickly for you, during which time material possessions or money serve as proxies for the grief and misunderstandings and resentments that so much of modern society is so terrible about processing.

IDK. I guess it’s better than dueling to death.

And I hope you may be able think about the good times, even if there weren’t many.

I find as time goes on, it’s easier to focus on the good memories. 

There were lovely memories. He was a good man who was wonderful to (and put up with) my mother.

[AgathaC]

Lately, Hubby and I have been struggling to deal with his 12-year-old son and rules. We don’t have a lot of them: put clean clothes away, straighten your room before going back to your mom’s (it’s a week on/week off custody schedule), no food or drink upstairs. That’s it.

Yet SS constantly ignores the rules and lies about whether or not he’s done as asked. When confronted, he just shrugs. No explanation. No regret. No guilt. No apology.

Hubby told me today that occasionally he hears from SS’s mom that she hears we never go anywhere fun and we made him do xyz. She’s just appalled. Seems to us we’re asking the bare minimum, but apparently even those expectations are tantamount to child abuse.

She and her parents are always taking him out to do stuff — multiple times a week. We don’t. We think stuff like that is for a special treat. Maybe we’re just monsters. I don’t think so, but to his mind, I’m sure we are.

Good grief. I just can’t with this kid. I always felt horrible if I broke a rule or disappointed my parents. SS doesn’t give two shits.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, AgathaC said:

Lately, Hubby and I have been struggling to deal with his 12-year-old son and rules. We don’t have a lot of them: put clean clothes away, straighten your room before going back to your mom’s (it’s a week on/week off custody schedule), no food or drink upstairs. That’s it.

Yet SS constantly ignores the rules and lies about whether or not he’s done as asked. When confronted, he just shrugs. No explanation. No regret. No guilt. No apology.

Hubby told me today that occasionally he hears from SS’s mom that she hears we never go anywhere fun and we made him do xyz. She’s just appalled. Seems to us we’re asking the bare minimum, but apparently even those expectations are tantamount to child abuse.

She and her parents are always taking him out to do stuff — multiple times a week. We don’t. We think stuff like that is for a special treat. Maybe we’re just monsters. I don’t think so, but to his mind, I’m sure we are.

Good grief. I just can’t with this kid. I always felt horrible if I broke a rule or disappointed my parents. SS doesn’t give two shits.

If you just wanted to vent and do not want advice or suggestions, ignore the rest of this post. 😉

Unfortunately, this all sounds typical of such arrangements. 
If family counseling is not an option, you could consult a therapist on your own to guide you in how to deal with the situation in such a way that it doesn't make you miserable.🧸

Is 12 still the age at which kids get to decide which parent they want to be with? This used to be done through a Family Services appointed mediator.

Maybe giving him some autonomy over that choice (formally or informally) could result in him not having to act out in rebellion against the few, reasonable chores and rules he is asked to comply with at your home.

And if he is acting out because he's depressed over feeling powerless in the situation, allowing him to "choose" might get at the root of his behavior problems before they become worse or more unhealthy.

Likely his choices won't be much different than the current arrangement.
But allowing him to have the choices could lift the mood for everyone involved.

[Laura Holt]

2 hours ago, AgathaC said:

Good grief. I just can’t with this kid. I always felt horrible if I broke a rule or disappointed my parents. SS doesn’t give two shits.

He sounds like a lot of kids I know including my oldest grandson.  I don't want to play the "kids these days" card but you've hit on something that really has surprised me about "kids these days".  My parents were about as easy going as you can get in their parenting style and yet if I knew something I had done disappointed them I was crushed.  I honestly don't see that with the kids I know today.  Maybe it's there and they just don't show it?  I hope so.

[shapeshifter]

1 minute ago, Laura Holt said:

...if I knew something I had done disappointed them I was crushed.  I honestly don't see that with the kids I know today.  Maybe it's there and they just don't show it? 

Good point about not showing remorse over disappointing parents. Do you recall how you did? Maybe you didn't? Just felt it?

My family never apologized for anything. It was more like: Just move on.
I do not think that's healthy or good for society.

[AgathaC]

1 hour ago, Laura Holt said:

He sounds like a lot of kids I know including my oldest grandson.  I don't want to play the "kids these days" card but you've hit on something that really has surprised me about "kids these days".  My parents were about as easy going as you can get in their parenting style and yet if I knew something I had done disappointed them I was crushed.  I honestly don't see that with the kids I know today.  Maybe it's there and they just don't show it?  I hope so.

Are you me? My parents were very easy-going, cool (even as a teen, my friends and peers loved them), fun. The one thing they insisted on was respect. Discipline was rarely required for my sisters and me. All it took was a short talk or a disappointed look, and we felt lower than cockroaches and never did whatever it was again.

Thank goodness, it appears my nephew and nieces are more like we were. Hubby says he was reading an article lately that suggested this lack of remorse and refusal to follow rules stems from certain parenting philosophies. Anyway, I know SS isn’t unique. But that doesn’t make him less frustrating!

And, thank you, @shapeshifter. I do discuss all this with a therapist. Hubby and his ex have discussed therapy for SS, but she consistently drags her feet. I don’t know at what age kids are really able to say where they want to live, but Hubby is pretty certain the day SS declares he wants to live with his mom is coming fast. As things stand now, he says he probably wouldn’t fight it. It’s clear he prefers the Disneyland at her house (what kid wouldn’t). I just hate it because he may pay the price for all this later.

Or maybe he’ll sail through life with no consequences or problems at all.

Edited September 12, 2023 by AgathaC

[PRgal]

He's 12, so maybe hormones?  As for my kid, he's turning 5 soon and my current struggle is trying to make him understand that it's important for him to tell us when he's uncomfortable and to tell both us and the teacher if someone at school is bullying him.  He's also going through a phase where he's more or less wasting food.  And it's not necessarily because he's not hungry or because he doesn't like something.  He just won't say, other than he doesn't want to have it.   

[AgathaC]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Good point about not showing remorse over disappointing parents. Do you recall how you did? Maybe you didn't? Just felt it?

My family never apologized for anything. It was more like: Just move on.
I do not think that's healthy or good for society.

According to Hubby, Ex’s family is like that. I’ve been married to Hubby for 7 years and I have never once heard SS do much as Mutter a grudging apology.

1 minute ago, PRgal said:

He's 12, so maybe hormones?  As for my kid, he's turning 5 soon and my current struggle is trying to make him understand that it's important for him to tell us when he's uncomfortable and to tell both us and the teacher if someone at school is bullying him.  He's also going through a phase where he's more or less wasting food.  And it's not necessarily because he's not hungry or because he doesn't like something.  He just won't say, other than he doesn't want to have it.   

I would think so — and it probably exacerbated it. But I’ve lived in the same house with him since he was 6. He’s been like this the whole time.

[isalicat]

4 hours ago, AgathaC said:

It’s clear he prefers the Disneyland at her house (what kid wouldn’t). I just hate it because he may pay the price for all this later.

And that will be on his mother, not you. Frankly, although I'm sure your husband loves his son, if I was dealing with a fundamentally disrespectful, lazy 12 year old that doesn't care to follow minimum standards of behavior at my house, I would encourage him to not visit unless he is willing to demonstrate some level of mutuality. It sounds from your description that he has already been so spoiled by his mother and grandparents that your husband and you have little leverage at this point. Very sad, but without the mother's buy-in (sounds really unlikely), you aren't going to alter this. One last conversation with the kid to lay out your expectations is in order and then I would change the plan if he isn't truly willing to change his ways.

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, AgathaC said:

I’ve lived in the same house with him since he was 6. He’s been like this the whole time.

He may be chronically depressed. Maybe his mother thinks the "Disneyland experience" is a way to cheer him up (not that it would work). 

He may have had a traumatic abuse experience of which the adults in his life are unaware. My parents bought my sister a poodle so she would stop vomiting. It didn't occur to find out what triggered the problem. In the 1950s and 60s, they didn't want to know. 

And it may just be a habit of how he behaves at your house. 

Anyway, you've stuck with it for 6 years. Your demonstration of reliability may not be going entirely unnoticed.  I hope things improve.🧸

[AgathaC]

1 hour ago, isalicat said:

And that will be on his mother, not you. Frankly, although I'm sure your husband loves his son, if I was dealing with a fundamentally disrespectful, lazy 12 year old that doesn't care to follow minimum standards of behavior at my house, I would encourage him to not visit unless he is willing to demonstrate some level of mutuality. It sounds from your description that he has already been so spoiled by his mother and grandparents that your husband and you have little leverage at this point. Very sad, but without the mother's buy-in (sounds really unlikely), you aren't going to alter this. One last conversation with the kid to lay out your expectations is in order and then I would change the plan if he isn't truly willing to change his ways.

I’m thinking he may be a lost cause already. I hope not, but it’s kind of hard to fight against Mom and her parents, as you say.

54 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

He may be chronically depressed. Maybe his mother thinks the "Disneyland experience" is a way to cheer him up (not that it would work). 

He may have had a traumatic abuse experience of which the adults in his life are unaware. My parents bought my sister a poodle so she would stop vomiting. It didn't occur to find out what triggered the problem. In the 1950s and 60s, they didn't want to know. 

And it may just be a habit of how he behaves at your house. 

Anyway, you've stuck with it for 6 years. Your demonstration of reliability may not be going entirely unnoticed.  I hope things improve.🧸

That’s an interesting suggestion. Having been around him, I don’t think he’s depressed. But it’s worth considering.

I hope the example we’re trying to set sinks in. At least my mother-in-law appreciates it. Every year on Mother’s Day, she sends me a check and a sweet note telling me thanking me for the good example I set for SS.

[BlueSkies]

My grandmother died 20 years ago.  I would send out a group text but honestly just don't feel listening to the groupthink mentality of my family.  

[shapeshifter]

9 minutes ago, BlueSkies said:

My grandmother died 20 years ago.  I would send out a group text but honestly just don't feel listening to the groupthink mentality of my family.  

Feel free to share a memory here — whether good, bad, funny, or sad.

[BlueSkies]

6 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Feel free to share a memory here — whether good, bad, funny, or sad.

kind of funny but she was big smoker.  and her old apartment used to smell like a cigarette.

 

But in that case cigarette aromas always bring make back to her and her apartment.  And I think of her and those days fondly 

[stewedsquash]

@BlueSkies I love that a smell sparks happiness for you. I am transported to my grandma’s farm house every time I smell sausage. Her oldest son lived in town, had a service station country store grill combo. Every Sunday morning he would go out to Grandma’s and cook breakfast for her. Luckiest days for me were when I was there for it. 

[Jaded]

On 9/18/2023 at 7:13 PM, BlueSkies said:

kind of funny but she was big smoker.  and her old apartment used to smell like a cigarette.

My Nana was a big smoker too so much so one of my Uncle's friends from childhood called her Smokey anytime he saw her for years afterwards. We lived with her when I was young until I was 12 which was when she died. One of the walls in my bedroom was behind the kitchen so when I'd start smelling coffee I'd know she was awake. She was the only one in the house who drank it.

I had a friend who's grandparents lived down the street which is how I met her. Her grandfather smoked cigars and in the main mall where I'm originally there was a cigar shop. The smells made it outside so just walking it by it you knew it was there so each time going by I'd think of him.

[Mindthinkr]

I had an Aunt who was a heavy smoker. She would inhale simultaneously through her mouth and what escaped through her nose. We called her Dragon Aunt. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

Things with my mom are actually pretty good these days, although she is still driving me nuts about my work issues/career. I told her yesterday that I landed a final interview for a job I think would be a great fit and she told me I should take a break after this because soon no employers will be hiring/hiring will slow down. I don’t disagree and am aware it’s mid-October and yes, generally hiring gets slower in the winter. But I just wish she could be more supportive of my goal to get out of the call center/customer service (even emails and chats can feel draining after a while) and understand why I’m looking to begin with. She thinks I just shouldn’t take the customers’ anger and emotions personally and that I should stick around because my boss likes me. Which is true, my boss is appreciative. But I don’t think I should stay because I “might” get promoted someday or because I “need” to stay a year. It’s like she chooses to ignore the fact that I only took the job because only call centers made me offers after I got laid off and it’s not as if anyone in the family said they would help me financially while I looked for something better. And sorry but when people are yelling at you constantly and the calls are back to back to back, I don’t have the personality where I can just keep smiling through that and not let it bother me. I don’t want to work at a place where customers and the job demands have me in tears frequently! 

Look, I have nothing against people who like customer service work. (Kudos to them.) Or who want to stay at a job forever and not advance, or who don’t mind sticking around because there is a possibility they get promoted. We all have different work goals. But just like we say “you don’t have the job until you have the offer,” there is no promotion off the phones until my boss says I have it. I wish she’d recognize that I have a goal to leave customer service work and it’s OK for me to pursue that goal. My career is not my coworker’s, or my sister’s, or my third cousin’s. I don’t get why my mom just can’t get behind supporting her own child in something I want. 

[isalicat]

6 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I don’t get why my mom just can’t get behind supporting her own child in something I want. 

My mom very vociferously wanted me (simultaneously) to:

(1) find a husband with a brilliant career (or lots of inherited wealth) who would "take care of me"

(2) have a brilliant career, preferably as a lawyer or some other publicly recognized way of making lots of money.

I did neither, pursing academia (which rarely pays well) and then preferring self-employment as a technical recruiter so I could live in the mountains and ski as much as I wanted, and marrying a guy, who like me, had the hippie values of self-sufficiency, frugality and "living lightly on this earth".

It drove her nuts, but then I was not my mother, and neither are you your mother. Don't look for validation from other people in this life, especially those nearest and dearest to you. March to your own beat! Integrity is the key to being able to look in the mirror every morning and smile at the day ahead.

And yes, front line customer service as a job is generally like being held captive in a vampire den (very draining, no matter how much blood you had to begin with). Its not a long term career option in my opinion.

[theredhead77]

13 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

and she told me I should take a break after this because soon no employers will be hiring/hiring will slow down. I don’t disagree and am aware it’s mid-October and yes, generally hiring gets slower in the winter.

FWIW, hiring slows but interviews continue (albeit a bit slower) so they can have people ready to start at the beginning of the year. Last company (the one with the thank-you note) I was laid off from the previous job a few days before Halloween, started interviewing for the initial entry level position in early Nov., got a job offer right before Christmas, and started Jan. 13th.

Edited October 12, 2023 by theredhead77