Bruce Jenner: The Interview (ABC)

[iwasish]

For anyone wondering if Bruce Jenner's announcement could actually change things, we're already seeing some subtle change from comedians.  

IMO Bruce's changing appearance being fodder for laughs was due to his participation in the KUWTK shows and being aligned with a famewhoring, anything for a dollar, faker than fake group like Kris and her daughters. They themselves on the show mocked his hair and wardrobe and commented on how Kris had his balls in her purse. Along with the constant denial that there was anything strange at all happening.  

[bluebonnet]

IMO Bruce's changing appearance being fodder for laughs was due to his participation in the KUWTK shows and being aligned with a famewhoring, anything for a dollar, faker than fake group like Kris and her daughters. They themselves on the show mocked his hair and wardrobe and commented on how Kris had his balls in her purse. Along with the constant denial that there was anything strange at all happening.  

No.  Transgender people have long been fodder for comedians.  He wasn't being bullied for a character he plays on tv (I'm hoping people do realize this is a character, it's not actually reality).  He was being bullied specifically for his suspected transition.  The trans population experiences this almost daily, comedians joke about this constantly with or without Bruce Jenner being the target.  It marks a pretty big shift in things if comedians do continue to no longer "punch down" on transgender people.  

[millennium]

Jenner's experience is worlds apart from the other 700,000 transgender people estimated to be living in the United States.   He leads a life of luxury and privilege.  He is so famous that no one in the lofty strata of society he occupies would dare mock, abuse or discriminate against him for fear of a public relations backlash.  

 

 

Bruce Jenner comments get 'Star Trek' actress in trouble

 

Alice Eve's attempts to argue for women's wage equality massively backfired when she roped Bruce Jenner into her talking points, saying the former Olympian was "playing at being a woman."

 

The "Star Trek Into Darkness" actress made the claims Monday on her Instagram page. She was responding to Jenner's highly-watched interview with Diane Sawyer last Friday in which the reality star confirmed that he is a transgender woman, the New York Daily News reported.

 

In her post, which the BBC says has since been deleted, Eve commented on Jenner's public declaration as having "the soul of a woman."

 

"If you were a woman no one would have heard of you because woman can't compete in the decathlon," she wrote, referring to Jenner's gold medal victory at the 1976 Olympic Games.

 

The 33-year-old actress adds that if Jenner were a woman, he "would be a frustrated young athlete who wasn't given a chance." Eve doesn't do herself any favors as she continues: "Until women are paid the same as men, then playing at being a 'woman' while retaining the benefits of a man is unfair."

 

Eve added that if Jenner has a vagina and is paid less than men, "Then, my friend, you are a woman."

 

The social media backlash was intense, with many fans calling her words "cruel," "terrible," and "blatantly transphobic."

 

Eve tried to clarify her points, and it's debatable whether she succeeded. She said she didn't think that people who self-identify as transgender are negatively impacting feminism.

 

"I am saying that we have to refine the language on this topic so all men, women and transgenders are accurately represented in their process of self-identification."

 

No, I'm not sure what she's saying either. In any case, she at least admitted that the whole matter "needs a little thought."

 

No kidding.

 

"I felt confused and now I feel enlightened and like I know what education I need to move forward."

 

One way she moved forward was to post a photo of David Bowie in his androgynous 1970s persona Ziggy Stardust and to write: "I am a supporter of anyone who wishes to explore their gender identity."

 

http://www.mercurynews.com/celebrities/ci_28005690/bruce-jenner-comments-get-star-trek-actress-trouble

 

It's too bad she backed down from her comments.   I hate when the mob gets its way.   But it's like I was saying up top -- few other famous people will criticize  Jenner for fear of backlash, even if the comments they are making are relatively benign.  Meanwhile, the average transgender person risks being called a freak or a fag (or worse) anytime he/she simply walks down the street.

 

There was nothing cruel or transphobic about what Alice Eve said.   The worst thing she's guilty of is being an opportunist who tried to horn in on Jenner's national spotlight to promote her own interests.   But aren't all his so-called celebrity well-wishers guilty of the same thing?  Call me cynical, but I don't believe for a moment they care about Bruce Jenner or his transition.   Their only concern is how much of that spotlight they can shine on themselves. 

Edited April 30, 2015 by millennium

[Irlandesa]

There was nothing cruel or transphobic about what Alice Eve said.  

Really?  You don't think "Until women are paid the same as men, then playing at being a 'woman' while retaining the benefits of a man is unfair." is a bit transphobic?  It's basically dismissing what Bruce is going through and acting like he's performing a part instead of living his reality. 

 

I think the irony here is that she was trying to make a feminist statement but it was oddly anti-feminist.  Wage disparity is a real thing but not all women experience it.  There are many women who make more than their male counterparts.  So does that mean, in her mind, a woman who doesn't experience it is not a woman? 

 

Sure, he likely didn't have to experience a lot of what women experience growing up but being a transgender woman, he'll have a whole host of other issues.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Irlandesa

[iwasish]

It's too bad she backed down from her comments.   I hate when the mob gets its way.   But it's like I was saying up top -- few other famous people will criticize  Jenner for fear of backlash, even if the comments they are making are relatively benign.  Meanwhile, the average transgender person risks being called a freak or a fag (or worse) anytime he/she simply walks down the street.

 

There was nothing cruel or transphobic about what Alice Eve said.   The worst thing she's guilty of is being an opportunist who tried to horn in on Jenner's national spotlight to promote her own interests.   But aren't all his so-called celebrity well-wishers guilty of the same thing?  Call me cynical, but I don't believe for a moment they care about Bruce Jenner or his transition.   Their only concern is how much of that spotlight they can shine on themselves.

Exactly, they don't want to be the only one who didn't tweet out some pithy comment to Bruce supporting him. And because they didn't it must mean they had/have issues with him or with his decision. im sure Bruce isn't reading all these tweets, and keeping track of who has and hasn't commented.

[GaT]

Exactly, they don't want to be the only one who didn't tweet out some pithy comment to Bruce supporting him. And because they didn't it must mean they had/have issues with him or with his decision. im sure Bruce isn't reading all these tweets, and keeping track of who has and hasn't commented.

 

I'm going to repost part of a comment I posted in the Kardashian thread, so forgive me for quoting myself

 

this is the whole problem with Twitter, it's filled with people under the mistaken impression that they have something relevant or interesting to say. Who gives a fuck what Alice Eve thinks about Bruce Jenner?

[iwasish]

I'm going to repost part of a comment I posted in the Kardashian thread, so forgive me for quoting myself

 

this is the whole problem with Twitter, it's filled with people under the mistaken impression that they have something relevant or interesting to say. Who gives a fuck what Alice Eve thinks about Bruce Jenner?

As if Bruce even knows who she is, let alone cares what she thinks. I don't think Bruce even has a Twitter account, so I doubt he's going to read it.

[millennium]

Really?  You don't think "Until women are paid the same as men, then playing at being a 'woman' while retaining the benefits of a man is unfair." is a bit transphobic?  It's basically dismissing what Bruce is going through and acting like he's performing a part instead of living his reality. 

 

 

No, I don't find it phobic in any way.   Insensitive, sure.   But not phobic, trans or otherwise.

 

For the record, it was Jenner, a card-carrying member of the Kardashian circus, who put his reality on center stage for the whole world to watch.   If people choose to believe he's performing a part, who can blame them?

I'm going to repost part of a comment I posted in the Kardashian thread, so forgive me for quoting myself

 

this is the whole problem with Twitter, it's filled with people under the mistaken impression that they have something relevant or interesting to say. Who gives a fuck what Alice Eve thinks about Bruce Jenner?

 

Given that we're all here discussing him on an internet forum, I don't think we're in a position to ask who cares what Alice Eve thinks about Bruce Jenner.

[BoogieBurns]

He was being bullied specifically for his suspected transition.

 

I'm not in the minds of the late night comedians, but I think it was the opposite. When people thought he starting looking feminine with no reason behind it, they thought it was fair game to joke about. Once Bruce said, "No this isn't just dress up, this is my identity," the jokes stopped. 

 

So, I think he stopped being bullied once it was clear he was going through a transition. 

 

ETA: I hate that anyone would get bullied for a transition. Bruce's story has made me step back and do better about accepting all people. 

Edited May 1, 2015 by BoogieBurns

[DrSparkles]

But to suggest that the Republicans will start embracing trans rights once they meet with him? That's not only naive, it's also arrogant. "Oh, they'll change their minds once they realize that someone like me is affected."

Well, that's what it took with AIDS. See: Ronnie Rayguns & Liberace.

ETA: and later, Magic Johnson.

Edited May 4, 2015 by DrSparkles

[DrSparkles]

I'm going to repost part of a comment I posted in the Kardashian thread, so forgive me for quoting myself

 

this is the whole problem with Twitter, it's filled with people under the mistaken impression that they have something relevant or interesting to say. Who gives a fuck what Alice Eve thinks about Bruce Jenner?

HA! They feature random people's tweets on the NEWS like it's actually NEWS! Jesus wept. "So & so, from BFE, tweets that the Texas tornado was like totally destructive." Sigh. And I love twitter!

[ennui]

I've been aware of Bruce for years. I remember when he was training at San Jose State, and getting all the write ups in the paper.

 

I'm sorry that he spent his whole life living a lie. I hope he finds peace. And yes, I think what he's doing will help all of the others who are in the same space, and transitioning. We can all learn from this. It takes a brave person to teach.

[BatmanBeatles]

She looks like Jessica Lange.

[Ohwell]

She's got a drooping left eye and I wonder if that was a result of the facial surgery.

[Rick Kitchen]

I only know of Alice Eve because of this topic, but in regard to this:

 

In light of what female Olympic athletes who have "too much testosterone" have been subjected to, if Jenner's belief is that he should have been born a she, then I think returning any medals, Olympic or otherwise, won while competing as a male would be considered fair.

Why? She won the medal fair and square, as a man.

[Constantinople]

Bruce is now and forever Caitlyn.  Glad she didn't go with a K name..

 

Isn't the C in Caitlyn pronounced as a K?

[HalcyonDays]

This Alice Eve person said this?? (I have no idea who this person is).
 

In light of what female Olympic athletes who have "too much testosterone" have been subjected to, if Jenner's belief is that he should have been born a she, then I think returning any medals, Olympic or otherwise, won while competing as a male would be considered fair.

 

Why would she have to give up her medals?? As long as she won the competitions fair and square, without doping or cheating somehow or other background corruption, Bruce earned those medals in the 70's. And I'm calling her Bruce because that at the time, it was Bruce Jenner who won the medals.

[GreatKazu]

People keep referencing Caitlyn looks or resembles Jessica Lange. Frankly, I saw a bit of actress Melissa Gilbert (Little House on the Prairie) in Caitlyn.

[RealityCowgirl]

Heh. My first response when I saw the cover: Geena Davis.